What can we do? Fearsome problems in Muslim integration with Christians

[Papichulo168]

^
Muslims can assimilate easily to a predominantly Christian country like the Philippines because there is freedom of religion. Christians on the other hand cannot assimilate to most predominantly muslim countrues as practicing non muslim religions are prohibited.

The issue of trying to convert others into their religion is not an issue here in Philippines as much as it is an issue in Saudi Arabia.

[kuroihikari]

It's the case when Muslim is the state religion, yes. However, it can work, like in Malaysia. Or in Mubarak Egypt.

In the end, it's up to the people's tolerances on both sides of the fence and the government support of their individual freedoms, and not really about the religion. It's still not easy task.

[Papichulo168]

It's the case when Muslim is the state religion, yes. However, it can work, like in Malaysia. Or in Mubarak Egypt.

In the end, it's up to the people's tolerances on both sides of the fence and the government support of their individual freedoms, and not really about the religion. It's still not easy task.

No. It's the religion. Point to me a predominantly Christian country whose government marginalizes it's muslim citizens and persecutes them for proselytizing their faith and no, Serbia is not an example.

[kuroihikari]

No. It's the religion. Point to me a predominantly Christian country whose government marginalizes it's muslim citizens and persecutes them for proselytizing their faith and no, Serbia is not an example.

Point taken.

Then again, you cannot claim that all countries with Islam as state religion impose the same restrictions those in the Middle East do. That means it's not the religion that's a factor, but the people and the government.

[Papichulo168]

Point taken.

Then again, you cannot claim that all countries with Islam as state religion impose the same restrictions those in the Middle East do. That means it's not the religion that's a factor, but the people and the government.

I'm not making that claim that ALL countries with Islam as state religion impose the same restrictions those in the middle east (and Africa) does.

You however made the claim that assimilation was not in the Christian agenda just because they proselytize.

I'm holding you to this post you made earlier so don't think I'm gonna let it slide with your cop outs and your equivocations.

Assimilation with other culture and religion was never in the Islamic agenda.

It really isn't in the Christian agenda either.

All these Abrahamic religions instruct their followers to convert everyone, after all.

[kuroihikari]

I'm not making that claim that ALL countries with Islam as state religion impose the same restrictions those in the middle east (and Africa) does.

You however made the claim that assimilation was not in the Christian agenda just because they proselytize.

I'm holding you to this post you made earlier so don't think I'm gonna let it slide with your cop outs and your equivocations.

But I'm not copping out. It's a fact that it's not in the Christian agenda.

There is nothing in Christian doctrine about living together in a world together with other religions. In fact, it makes it perfectly clear that everyone "to the ends of the world" should know and heed the word of God. How assimilation squeezes into that is beyond me.

[bagiw.boi]

i don't see the TS's examples and personal experience as a muslim problem.

it is more of a law-and-order problem in the moro community. and you don't judge the whole community by the actions of a few.

[cyberfunk]

The Muslim or Islamic problem is more on demographics. Also if a great majority of a sovereign have been converted to Christianity or Judaism their democratic constitution will be threaten. If a country has a growing number of Muslims the Sharia law in time shall be applied. So Islam is not only a threat to other religion but it will also be threat to civility and the way of ones life. What's happening in Europe is quite alarming already.

[Papichulo168]

i don't see the TS's examples and personal experience as a muslim problem.

it is more of a law-and-order problem in the moro community. and you don't judge the whole community by the actions of a few.

If the community (Muslim) goes against the police in order to protect their own regardless of the crime they are committing and then use the religious persecution card when caught, then it's no longer a simple law and order problem anymore.

[bagiw.boi]

If the community (Muslim) goes against the police in order to protect their own regardless of the crime they are committing and then use the religious persecution card when caught, then it's no longer a simple law and order problem anymore.

then isn't that a failure of law enforcement?

i still don't see the role of islam in the context of criminality within the moro community. islam does not condone public disorder.

in fact, if all of our moro brothers and sisters take the precepts of islam to heart and act like good muslims, we wouldn't be seeing this ciminality in their community.

much like if ALL filipino christians will follow christ's adminition to love one another and obey the golden rule, there wouldn't be any crime at all committed by christians.

the fact that christians also commit crimes does not mean christianity is the problem.

[Papichulo168]

then isn't that a failure of law enforcement?

i still don't see the role of islam in the context of criminality within the moro community. islam does not condone public disorder.

in fact, if all of our moro brothers and sisters take the precepts of islam to heart and act like good muslims, we wouldn't be seeing this ciminality in their community.

much like if ALL filipino christians will follow christ's adminition to love one another and obey the golden rule, there wouldn't be any crime at all committed by christians.

the fact that christians also commit crimes does not mean christianity is the problem.

Sounds like wishful thinking more than anything else.

[kuroihikari]

This is just a spillover from the times when Muslims where the minority and the religious persecution card was still valid. It's the same thing with African-Americans, they're going to vouch for each other because of racial persecution regardless of the law.

Although I don't think Islam itself is to blame, it has to man up and face the responsibility of being a major religion. Muslims have now outnumbered Roman Catholics, and they just cannot play the minority issue every time anymore.

[sugargame]

then isn't that a failure of law enforcement?

i still don't see the role of islam in the context of criminality within the moro community. islam does not condone public disorder.

in fact, if all of our moro brothers and sisters take the precepts of islam to heart and act like good muslims, we wouldn't be seeing this ciminality in their community.

much like if ALL filipino christians will follow christ's adminition to love one another and obey the golden rule, there wouldn't be any crime at all committed by christians.

the fact that christians also commit crimes does not mean christianity is the problem.

You think that Muslims are just like Christians. The more religious they are, the more peaceful and kind they are?

You're dead wrong. It's exactly the opposite.

The most devout Muslim is the most violent. The Muslims who knows his Koran, teaches in Madrassas, and knows how to speak arabic is the most violent. Muslims use their religion to justify their evil acts. In fact their religion teaches them not to see Christians and other non-Muslims as people but pigs, abominations that must be decapitated to make Allah happy.

Taking Islam by heart means killing Christians.

[bagiw.boi]

^


how many muslims do you know?

[lmanhorn]

the reason why Muslims have little respect for the life of other is because their culture recognizes Diyya and Qisas.

Diyya is blood money given to the heirs of the victim which nullifies any criminal responsibilities or punishment. in the Philippine setting, a victims family better accept the diyya and forego any penal action or else they to may be targets of the same voilence because no Muslim will degrade themselves or accept an equivalent punisment.

Qasis is a call for retaliation. a life for a life. so for Muslims, it is better to kill rather than to be the victim and just give Diyya as an atonement.

life is so cheap for those who live by the Islamic faith.

grabe naman yan....... buhay mo may presyo

[andresbonifacio2]

As the TS and with all humility I would like to build on the shoulders (posts) of these fellow Pexers.

One thing is certain to me at this point, the fact this is an inadequate thread made by an imperfect TS. Though there are many branches to this tree having the first post as its roots. I'd like to suggest to focus on things that maybe can be fixed with the tools that we have as a nation.

cyberfunk: Assimilation with other culture and religion was never in the Islamic agenda.

kuroihikari: It really isn't in the Christian agenda either. All these Abrahamic religions instruct their followers to convert everyone, after all.

What does trying to convert everyone have anything to do with assimilation? Labo ng logic mo dito pre.

Conversion will happen as long as we are human and this is regardless of any religious background. Assimilation in this discussion (this thread) pertains to the degree of how well a minority lives with an open and welcoming society (liberty and democracy) for which are the main reasons for them to move in the first place.

i don't see the TS's examples and personal experience as a muslim problem.

it is more of a law-and-order problem in the moro community. and you don't judge the whole community by the actions of a few.

Indeed, but please don't misunderstand that we are here to judge. It is here to plead and ask for doable solutions (in the Philippine scenario) as what I have stated in the thread title.

As TS, I have disavowed any discussion that pertains to theology and religious teachings. The prophet (PBUH) and his teachings will not be touched.

Also I have been very specific to mainly focus on areas pertaining to NCR and its neighboring provinces.

The discussion is societal and demographic in nature. The use of the name of a type of a group of peoples is purely incidental. Will Moro be a more appropriate term? Sana maintindihan mo po ito.

Now with regard to the "law-and-order problem in the moro community":

The reason this thread exists because it is not just "in" the moro community.

Let me show again some related main points:

Issue #1 Loyalty to clan before duty, religion, and state.
Issue #2: Deadly Muslim vs. Muslim Fights. Lawmen putting the law into their own hands.
Issue #5 Untouchable by Law + Strategic Dominance in Securing an Area + Knee Jerk Reaction to Kill

Is it ok if we try to discern what can be done with these?

The Muslim or Islamic problem is more on demographics. Also if a great majority of a sovereign have been converted to Christianity or Judaism their democratic constitution will be threaten. If a country has a growing number of Muslims the Sharia law in time shall be applied. So Islam is not only a threat to other religion but it will also be threat to civility and the way of ones life. What's happening in Europe is quite alarming already.

Yes it is a demographics issue. And you are right about what is happening in Europe. Will it also materialize in this country?

[andresbonifacio2]

I am surprised at the abundance of anti and pro government talk but less of this kind.

[cyberfunk]

Yes it is a demographics issue. And you are right about what is happening in Europe. Will it also materialize in this country?

It already did decades ago with the formation of the ARMM. In NCR we have no-go-zones already like Maharlika Village.

[creech]

share ko lang.

may na feature sa XXX mag-asawang muslim humingi ng tulong kasi kinidnap yung anak nila kasi yung babae nagasawa ng isang muslim convert dating kristiano. yung mother ng babae ang nagplano para kidnapiin yung baby. bawal pala sa tradition ng muslim sa pinas na magasawa ng ibang religion ang babaeng muslim kahit na ito ay isang convert dapat muslim na ng isilang (isang malaking disgrace kasi ito). wala itong kapatawaran at puwedeng buhay pa ang kapalit sabi sa XXX.

si mayor lim pa kasama si julius babao ang sumagot ng hundreds of thousand pesos kapalit ng pagbawi sa sanggol. nangyari ito sa mosque ng quiapo. lumuhod pa yung ama nung sanggol sa nanay ng asawa niya na nagmamakaawa at umiiyak na ibalik na yung anak nila. obvious na kabado si julius babao kasi sila lang yata ni mayor lim and crew ng XXX ang kristiano dun. kung hindi gumawa ng action si mayor lim walang mangyayari. salamat sa kanya.

[idiot_savant]

Haven't been to Maharlika Village. What does it look like? I have been to Quiapo only. Ok naman dun.