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  1. #861
    Quote Originally Posted by Tagapagmasid View Post
    @aida: marunong ka palang manumbat, isang masamang ugali na kahit kelan ay hindi ginawa ng mga apostles at mg disciples.

    ang tanong eh "tama ba ang sagot mo?" O nanghola ka lang?

    Isa kang manghohola.....
    Makipag-usap ka ng maayos.

    Sa sinasabi mong ang argumento mo sa mga ATEISTA tungkol sa moralidad, na ito ang makapagpapatunay na may Dios, napatunayan mo ba sa kanila ang sinasabi mong ito?

    Hindi ka ba nahihiya? Ikaw na nagsasabing Kristiano at naniniwala sa Dios, sa mga hindi naniniwala sa Dios ay nakakaya ka nilang ilampaso sa argumento mong ito?

    Saan at anong talata sa Biblia ang bumabanggit sa salitang moralidad? Paano ipinaliwanag ng Biblia na ito ang makapagpapatunay na may Dios?

  2. #862
    @aida: ano ang tawag mo sa mga pagpatay o di kaya paglapastangan sa isang tao? Ano ang tawag mo sa kabutihang asal na ginagawa mo? Ito ay ethics at morality. Ngayon sabihin mo sa akin na walang morality sa bible?

  3. #863
    Quote Originally Posted by Tagapagmasid View Post
    @aida: ano ang tawag mo sa mga pagpatay o di kaya paglapastangan sa isang tao?
    Ang kautusan ay espirituwal (Roma 7:14) kaya sa utos na "Huwag kang papatay" kahulugan nito ay huwag tayong espirituwal na papatay ng tao. Ilang beses ko na sinabi sayo na ang pagtuturo ng Biblia sa LITERAL na paraan ay espirituwal na pumapatay.

    2Corinhians 3:6 "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

    Ang gawang pag-unawa sa Biblia ay hindi sa paraang pamamag-asa sa TITIK (o literal), kundi ayon sa pagpapaliwanag ng Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost na si Jesucristo (John 6:63) mula sa mismong Kaniyang mga salita + patnubay.

    Ang mga nabibilang sa mga relihiyon at sekta, dahil LITERAL nilang lahat na inuunawa ang Biblia, silang lahat ay mga espirituwal na patay sa mata ng Panginoon:

    Proverbs 21:16 "The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding (the spiritual language of God) shall remain in the congregation of the dead."

    Sa kabuuan, ang literal na utos na "HUwag kang papatay" ay batas ng tao. Sinomang suwayin ito ay parurusahan siya ng gobyerno. Sinomang espirituwal na pumatay, ayon sa Panginoon siya ay hindi maliligtas.

    Galatians 5:21 "Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings....they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

    Ang isang pisikal na mamamatay-tao ay isang pisikal na masamang-tao (O HINDI MORAL). Ang isang espirituwal na mamamatay-tao, ay isang espirituwal na masamang tao (O HINDI ESPIRITUWAL).

    Ano ang tawag mo sa kabutihang asal na ginagawa mo? Ito ay ethics at morality.
    Ang kabutihan at kagandahang-asal ay itinuturo sa atin ng ating mga magulang, guro, at mga aklat. Hindi natin kailangan ang Dios sa bagay na ito dahil ito nga ay kay Cesar (o bagay na nauukol sa pisikal/pampisikal). Kaya sa sinasabi mong ang morality ay isang katibayan ng pagkakaroon ng Dios, ito ay isang malaking kasinungalingan at panlilinlang sa mga tao!

    Ngayon sabihin mo sa akin na walang morality sa bible?
    ASTIG, kung ang "morality" ay kinakailangan bilang isang patunay na may Dios,siguradong isusulat ito ng mga alagad sa Biblia.

  4. #864
    Atheism is not a threat since only fanatics who apparently got a lot of time to post on the net are creating the idea that it is growing. A lot of them fail to understand what they are up against and are too ready to SWITCH back in a cowardly effort to deceive society and cover up their heart felt stance.

    Of course, they are like tall grass that sways with the direction of the wind. However since they have no idea of God or believe that such exists, then they make believe that no one would know the Truth. The basic presumption is if we do not know, then who else would know and understand Truth?

    It is like the ton of posts at PEx. Not a few months ago, many were anti USA and pro-China, in fact this is as far back as I can remember. Then the Scarborough Shoal standoff took place. Now the theme is to pretend they are pro American. FYI, this country is only next to Iraq with regards to terrorism. But only a few people are really behind the problem so I guess, we need not involve a whole country to fight a battle crafted by a handful of politicians in office.

  5. #865
    If Atheism is growing, where are they? Seeing a rare Albino whom you thought was a blonde girl at the back is more common than an atheist. I've only met two Albinos in my entire life.

  6. #866
    @PgUP: What is the relationship of truth to God and form the Pro America and Pro China which involve the scaborugh shoal?

  7. #867
    Well I believe in a supreme being
    but if some people don´t
    I can´t judge them
    once someone told me that humans were the creators of good and evil
    I respected that but disagreed
    Humans can choose between good and evil
    when we choose good , we can be in control of it
    when we choose evil , we are controlled by it
    That´s why we´re not the creators
    but simply followers of one way or another .
    we are given choices everyday
    we don´t give ourselves those choices
    life does .

  8. #868
    Quote Originally Posted by lightrider View Post
    Well I believe in a supreme being
    but if some people don´t
    I can´t judge them
    Tama. Hindi natin dapat i-judge ang mga taong hindi naniniwala, at ayaw maniwala sa Dios. Lalo't higit, hindi natin sila dapat pilitin na paniwalaang may Dios dahil sadyang may mga tao na sa kanilang mga puso ay hinahanap at gustong makilala ang Dios, nais maunawaan ang Biblia, at maligtas. Sa kanila, ganito ang pangako ng Panginoon:

    Jeremiah 29:13 "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."

    once someone told me that humans were the creators of good and evil
    I respected that but disagreed
    Humans can choose between good and evil
    when we choose good , we can be in control of it
    when we choose evil , we are controlled by it
    May kinalaman sa Punong Kahoy ng Pagkakilala sa Mabuti at Masama, at dahil ang mga salita ni Jesus ay "pawang espirituwal," (John 6:63), ang sinasabi at ipinagbabawal ng Dios ay ang pagkakaroon ng tao ng sariling pamantayan sa ESPIRITUWAL na mabuti at masama.

    Sa kabuuan, sa PISIKAL na mabuti at masama ay bahala tayo kung saan tayo lulugar, pero ayaw ng Dios na magkakaroon tayo ng sariling pamantayan ukol sa espirituwal na mabuti at masama. Sa halip, hayaan nating Siya lamang, mula sa Kaniyang mga salita, ang magsabi nito. Halimbawa: Sinasabi ng maraming mga tao na kailangan tayo ay maging moral para maging katanggap-tanggap sa Dios. Ang moralidad at pagiging moral dahil nauukol sa pisikal nating buhay, walang sinasabi ang Dios na ganyan! Dahil kahit sino at gaano man kasama ang tao siya ay Kaniyang tatanggapin, magpakababa lamang siya sa Kaniya at sa Kaniya iasa ang tungkol sa kaligtasan (Mateo 18:3). Kaya ang mga taong nagpapahayag ng pangangailangan ng pagiging moral ukol sa paglapit sa Dios, ito mismo ang isang halimbawa ng pagkakaroon ng sariling pamantayan sa espirituwal na mabuti at masama.

  9. #869
    Quote Originally Posted by Tagapagmasid View Post

    5. Another point is that you both denying the authenticity of your existence. It means that they were never claim where they belong or they were never claim from which any group they came from. Pinipilit nilang itago ang pangalan ng grupo nila. Isa lang ang alam ko pag ganun, may masama kang intension kaya ganun. Hindi ba’t kasinunglingan ang pagtatago ng isang pangalan ng grupo.
    Ang Biblia ay tungkol lamang kay Jesus at sa kaligtasan (John 5:39). Ngayon, may sinabi ba si Jesus sa Biblia na kailangan ay kasapi ang isang tao sa isang grupo para maligtas, o ang kailangan ay lumabas tayo sa grupo (o relihiyon o sekta)?

    Ayon sa Revelation 18:4, "Magsilabas kayo sa kaniya" o huwag nating gayahin ang pamamaraan ng mga Iglesia Katolika, ang "mother of harlots," ukol sa kaligtasan (halimbawa ay ang pagtatayo ng literal na church). Dahil LITERAL ang unawa mo sa salitang "lumabas," buong kahambugan kang nagmamapuri na lumabas ka na sa kanila. Pagkatapos nito, ang mga Katoliko ay gayun mo na lang tuyain at laitin dahil sa "imahe." Ang hindi mo alam, lumabas ka lang sa kanila, pero lumipat ka lang ng grupo. Ngayon, sa paglipat mo sa ibang grupo, tingnan mo kung nagbago ba ang katayuan mo sa mata ng Dios.

    Isaiah 45:20 "Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save."

    Sa wika ng Dios, ang "god" ay tumutukoy sa tao (Isaias 41:23), at ang "pray" ay pananalangin o pagsamba o pakikipag-ugnayan sa kanino man. Sa talata na ang mensahe ay para sa mga nagsi-alis sa isang grupo, sinasabing sa pinanggalingan nila "Sila'y walang kaalaman na nangagdadala ng kahoy ng kanilang larawang inanyuan." Dahil ang "wood" o kahoy ay sumisimbolo sa tao, ang imahe samakatuwid ay sila mismong "'god" na hindi makapagliligtas. Dahil ang mga lider ng pananampalataya ang tinutukoy dito, at sa kanila kayo nananalagin o nakikipag-ugnayan ukol sa kaligtasan, at sila'y hindi makapagliligtas, may karapatan ka bang lait-laitin ang mga Katoliko tungkol sa "imahe" gayung pareho lang kayo? Isang KAHOY na imahe, at isang TAO na imahe, pareho lang yan!

    Bunga ng hindi mo pagka-unawa sa espirituwal na wika ng Dios, makasalanan ka dahil nakasapi ka sa grupo (at nadamay sa mga lider mo), tapos ako na walang grupo ay pagsasabihan mo ng kung anu-ano? Sa mga LITERAL na nagsilabas sa Iglesia Katolika, datapuwa't nagsipagtayo ng LITERAL na church, muli ay nananawagan ang Panginoon na ang mga tao ay magsi-alis sa kanilang lahat!

    2Corinthians 6:17 "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord... and I will receive you,"

    Nagtitirahan kayu-kayong mga nasa grupo (o relihiyon at sekta) na nag-iinsultuhan at halos ay magmurahan (na isinasangkalan si Jesus gamit ang Kaniyang salita) gayung pare-pareho lang kayo?

    TANONG: Umalis ka na ba sa grupo para masabing tinanggap ka na ni Jesus?

    Sa katotohanan, lamang ang mga ATEISTA sa iyo. Dahil nagsi-alis na sila sa relihiyon at sekta, isang hakbang na lang ang gawin nila (ang magpakababa sa Panginoon at sa Kaniya iasa ng buong-buo ang kaligtasan ng may gusto sa kanila), ay mas tatanggapin sila ni Jesus kesa sa iyo! Hindi problema sa Dios kung hindi man sila naniniwalang may Dios, dahil magsilapit lang sila sa Panginoon, ay Siya na ang bahalang magpakilala sa kanila (Isa ako sa mga SAKSI sa katotohanang ito).

    IISA lamang talaga ang paraan para ang tao ay makapasok sa kaharian ng langit:

    Matthew 18:3 "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

    Parang isang magnanakaw na kumakatok sa pinto na walang Identification Card. Dun pa lang hindi ka na kapani paniwala.
    Hoy! kwagong gising sa umaga, may magnanakaw bang kailangan pa ang ID bago kumatok, para maging kapani-paniwala?????

  10. #870
    @lightrider: But the problem on that thought is how you differentiate "good and evil"?

  11. #871
    Quote Originally Posted by pilotmarker View Post
    If Atheism is growing, where are they? Seeing a rare Albino whom you thought was a blonde girl at the back is more common than an atheist. I've only met two Albinos in my entire life.
    I don't think there are statistics in the Philippines for that yet. But the fact that atheism is being discussed more openly and with more force than before is a sign that the concept is gaining more credibility and popularity in the mainstream. But we definitely still have a long way to go.

  12. #872
    Even though they make it popularity or make it mainstream, actually what they believe is not relevant but their action is. Because they lost the objectivity of truth.

  13. #873
    Marcus Antonius Didacus kramporter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Westeros


    nuffsaid.

  14. #874
    Quote Originally Posted by Tagapagmasid View Post
    Even though they make it popularity or make it mainstream, actually what they believe is not relevant but their action is. Because they lost the objectivity of truth.
    And what is truth?

  15. #875
    Quote Originally Posted by PgUp View Post
    Atheism is not a threat since only fanatics who apparently got a lot of time to post on the net are creating the idea that it is growing....
    majority of the world population are atheist

  16. #876
    we were just deceived with wrong assumptions...for example, we look down with muslim as minority but in fact there are 2.1 billion muslims while only 2 billion Christians..and Catholic is only 1.2billion
    (and Catholic looks like the true religion in Ph)

    atheist is 150 million only but if you add to that the innocent babies worldwide and the 1 billion buddhist then we could be the majority :-)

  17. #877
    Quote Originally Posted by kramporter View Post
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OBcbwo7IPd4/T8rfsHhNkFI/AAAAAAAAAHI/dzv-VPEd9e4/s640/542028_391654850879286_100001043234184_1193275_367826499_n.jpg

    nuffsaid.
    yehey ginamit na naman si buddha... yung sinabi ni buddha na reincarnation, rebirth, nirvana, devas, etcs, ano yung mga yun?

    bakit kahilig ng tao kay buddha?

  18. #878

  19. #879
    Quote Originally Posted by theven View Post
    we were just deceived with wrong assumptions...for example, we look down with muslim as minority but in fact there are 2.1 billion muslims while only 2 billion Christians..and Catholic is only 1.2billion
    (and Catholic looks like the true religion in Ph)

    atheist is 150 million only but if you add to that the innocent babies worldwide and the 1 billion buddhist then we could be the majority :-)


    I think you severely undercounted the atheists and non-believers and rejecters of mainstream religions -- Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

    Above link has very revealing quotes:

    "In Israel, around 50% of Israelis who were born ethnically Jewish consider themselves "secular" or hilonim" The word "secular" is a keyword for something definitely not Judaism.

    "In the People's Republic of China, 59% of the population claim to be non-religious." That is 1.4B x 59% = 800 MILLION!

    "France has 33% atheists and 27% who believe in some spirituality." That spirit is definitely NOT the Holy Spirit. It is a code of something not Christian. In France alone, more than half of the population rejects mainstream faiths. And this pattern is similar for the rest of Europe.

    It is only in the Philippines and in KSA (and other equally backward countries) that it seems that religion is such a dominant omnipresent influence.

  20. #880

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