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  1. #1

    Is ISLAM based on PAGAN roots?

    To avoid off-topic discussions on the thread "Who is the real Saviour" (LINK), I've created this thread to continue my discussion with the four Muslim residents here about the origins of the CRESCENT MOON and FIVE POINTED STAR symbol as shown below:




    We know this symbol as a common symbol of Islam as we often see this on top of Mosques and also inside Mecca:





    Just like any typical company logo, we recognize a company by it's logo. When we see a popular logo like Apple, we know it belongs to a computer company and we associate anything with the company that has to do with the logo. When we see the Apple logo printed on a shirt, we know which company distributed it.

    I've asked one of the Muslims here, namely Kosmos to give me the meaning of the CRESCENT MOON and FIVE POINTED STAR symbol. She gave me this link, and I quote:

    "It emerged some time after that, and historians differ as to when this symbol was first adopted and who was the first to adopt it. Some say it was the Persians, others say it was the Greeks, and that this symbol was somehow passed to the Muslims. (See Al-Taraateeb al-Idaariyah by al-Kittaani, 1/320). It was said that the reason why the Muslims adopted the crescent was that when they conquered some western countries, the churches there had crosses on top of them, the Muslims replaced the crosses with these crescents, and the practice spread in this way. Whatever the case, symbols and banners must be in accordance with the teachings of Islam, and as there is no evidence that this symbol is prescribed by Islam, it is better not to use it. Neither the crescent nor the star are symbols of the Muslims, even though some Muslims may use them as symbols."

    http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/1528

    The link Kosmos provided didn't give any direct meaning of the CRESCENT MOON and FIVE POINTED STAR symbol. The author himself is clueless. He even said it's better not to use it, but we still see this even today in Mecca.

    Since they don't know the direct meaning of the symbol in question, a little research in Google will show you these:


    This is a common symbol when invoking spirits of the Ouija Board.




    A common symbol of Witchcraft:





    In fact, when you do a Google image, you'll see hundreds of links associating this symbol with witchcraft and these are not even Islamic sites:


    GOOGLE IMAGE LINK


    ... continued

  2. #2


    http://www.livius.org/aj-al/alexandr...dria_oxus.html

    Above is the image of the moon goddess Astarte/Isis/Ishtar/Ashtoreth/Cybelle on an ancient plate which predates Islam by thousands of years. Kindly note the crescent and star symbol on this plate.

    Cyblle is a moon goddess in Phygria. She is also known as Ishtar, Astarte, Isis, Ashtoreth, etc. as one of her many names in different cultures.

    http://deoxy.org/gaia/goddess.htm

    This is another depiction of the crescent and star symbol of this ancient Persian coin:




    As noted, this CRESCENT and STAR symbol is very common in ancient times.


    This is another graven image of the moon goddess:



    http://jssgallery.org/paintings/BPL/..._Neith.htm#Pic


    According to Encyclopedia Britannica:

    “The number 5 was associated with the Babylonian goddess Ishtar and her Roman parallel, Venus, and the symbol for both was the five-pointed star, or pentagram.” - Encyclopedia Britannica


    The symbol of the moon goddess as confirmed, is the FIVE POINTED STAR or PENTAGRAM.

    Since the symbol of the moon goddess is also the CRESCENT MOON symbol as evident on the artifacts we have the symbol we commonly see in ISLAM:


    CRESCENT + FIVE POINTED STAR =





    However, according to the link provided by Kosmos:

    "Whatever the case, symbols and banners must be in accordance with the teachings of Islam, and as there is no evidence that this symbol is prescribed by Islam, it is better not to use it."


    I respect the author's reasoning and I think this is in good faith that according to him, there is no evidence that this symbol is prescribed in Islam.

    However, what I found in Islam is in direct contradiction to this as I have found out, to my surprise.


    ..... continued

  3. #3
    According to these books:

    “The number five is the sacred number of the goddess Ishtar (Astarte).” – Tarot as a way of life: A Jungian approach to the Tarot by Karen Hamaker-Zondag, p. 90

    “In antiquity, five was the number of Ishtar and Venus” – The Encyclopedia of religion, Vol. 11, p.15

    “The number 5 was associated with the Babylonian goddess Ishtar and her Roman parallel, Venus, and the symbol for both was the five-pointed star, or pentagram.” - Encyclopedia Britannica

    ......


    Since the number 5 is the number of the moon goddess Ishtar/Astarte/Cybelle/etc, where can you find these in ISLAM?


    1) Prayer is done 5 times a day.

    2) The 5th day of the week, Friday, is where all Muslims gather as a congregation to pray and worship.

    3) The Hazrat Panjetan-e-Pak are the 5 purified holy personalities that together are the founding Islamic family.

    4) In the sura al-Haj, the name of Allah is repeated 5 times.

    5) There are 5 suras that start with Al-Hamdullelah – Hamd, Inaam, Kahf, Saba, and Fatr.

    6) The 5 pillars of Islam.


    All these are centered upon the number 5 repeatedly - the number of the moon goddess. This shows persistence and habit in using the number 5.

    Let us focus on why Friday is very important for Muslims. According to this Islamic site:


    "Friday is a very important day for Muslims. It is more significant and more beneficial than any other day of the week. It is the day that Muslims gather together to pray in congregation. Directly before the prayer they listen to a lecture designed to empower them with valuable knowledge about God, and the religion of Islam. It is a blessed day that has been designated as such by God, Almighty; no other day of the week shares its virtues. "

    http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/10170/


    Friday seems to be a sacred and holy day for Muslims.

    Friday is the 5th day of the week. Friday is also the name of the Norse moon goddess Frigga.


    "O.E. frigedćg "Frigga's day," (see Frigg), Gmc. goddess of married love, a W.Gmc. translation of L. dies Veneris, "day of (the planet) Venus," which itself translated Gk. Aphrodites hemera. Cf. O.N. frijadagr, O.Fris. frigendei, M.Du. vridach, Du. vrijdag, Ger. Freitag "Friday," and the L.-derived cognates O.Fr. vendresdi, Fr. vendredi, Sp. viernes . In the Gmc. pantheon, Freya (q.v.) corresponds more closely in character to Venus than Frigg does, and some early Icelandic writers used Freyjudagr for "Friday." - Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper


    Frigga or Venus is also the name of Ishtar the moon goddess among her countless of names across cultures.


    By this alone, Islam is suspiciously based on the pagan moon goddess by the following evidences:

    1) Crescent Moon and Five Pointed Star symbol on top of Mosques
    2) Persistence of the number 5 in Islam in it's practices and beliefs
    3) Worship on the day of the moon goddess Frigga (Friday)



    .... continued
    Last edited by ascorbicacid31; Jul 25, 2011 at 07:24 PM.

  4. #4
    ex-Catholic mani94's Avatar
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    Question

    What about the Jews? Do they worship a star also? they have the star of david as a banner...



    Do Muslims have crescent moon's in their houses and kiss/worship them?

    Sanay lang kasi kayo mag worship ng stones and idols (RCC) ninyo kaya isip nyo tuloy Muslims also worship a crescent moon...






    The crescent moon was a symbol of the Ottoman Empire and some of today's Muslim majority nations like Pakistan, Turkey, etc. because we Muslims start fasting upon seeing the crescent moon of Ramadan. There is absolutely NO shari'ah basis on having the Crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The crescent moon became a symbol largely due to the tradition started by the Ottoman Empire (because Muslims starting fasting on seeing the Crescent moon of Ramadan). So in actuality it is discouraged by Islamic shari'ah to have the crescent moon as a symbol, and it should preferably be stopped and ended by the Muslim Ummah (community).

  5. #5
    Hi mani94, can you please open a new thread on this? I have also some exposures on that.

    Let this thread be only for ISLAM exclusively.

    Thank you.

  6. #6
    ex-Catholic mani94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ascorbicacid31 View Post
    Hi mani94, can you please open a new thread on this? I have also some exposures on that.

    Let this thread be only for ISLAM exclusively.

    Thank you.
    Dude what exposures? show your source para makita ng lahat na copy paste mo lang yan sa mga Islamophobic na mga websites... lumang tugtugin nayan... gamit ng mga Christian missionaries ever since pa... don't pretend to know anything about Islam... or its history...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by mani94 View Post
    Dude what exposures? show your source para makita ng lahat na copy paste mo lang yan sa mga Islamophobic na mga websites... lumang tugtugin nayan... gamit ng mga Christian missionaries ever since pa... don't pretend to know anything about Islam... or its history...
    Sorry. The evidences can speak for itself. One only needs to check the sources for verification on the facts.

    Thank you.

  8. #8
    ex-Catholic mani94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ascorbicacid31 View Post
    Sorry. The evidences can speak for itself. One only needs to check the sources for verification on the facts.

    Thank you.
    Sources for verification of facts??? ni hindi mo nga ni posts kung saan mo ni copy paste yang mga yan... Again don't pretend to know anything about Islam.... ilang beses ko na nakita yang mga nilatag mo ngayon..... dati pa... gawa gawa lang yan ng mga Christian missionaries..... no historical bases whatsoever... dati payan... lumang tugtugin...

  9. #9

    ano sa tingin mo dito!!!



    hindi kaya kaptid kayo ang mas malaa dahil sinamba nyo ang mga ito kami lahat na post mo ay hindi namin sinamba tulad ng mga ito!!!!



    kailan pa naging maitim ng kristo!!!

  10. #10
    Since we have already covered the evidences of the FIVE POINTED STAR of the MOON GODDESS, we now proceed with the CRESCENT MOON symbol of the MOON GODDESS in ISLAM.

    Where do we find the usage of the CRESCENT MOON in ISLAM?

    We can actually find this in RAMADAN!


    According to this Islamic website:

    "Ramadan starts with the sighting of the crescent moon(hilal) and last for a period of one month. When the hilal is visible again at the end of the month, it is the time to celebrate Eid-Ul-Fitr (break the fast)."

    http://www.theeid.com/ramadan/ramadan-dates.html


    "The debate over the start of Ramadan began back in the 7th century, when the prophet Muhammad instructed his followers to begin their fast the morning after visibly sighting the thin crescent moon that marks the beginning of a new month."

    http://www.holidays.net/ramadan/ramadan-begins.htm


    ....

    When does Ramadan starts on 2011?


    "When is Ramadan?

    In 2011, Ramadan will start on Monday, August 1 and will continue for 30 days until Tuesday, August 30."

    http://www.chiff.com/home_life/holiday/ramadan.htm


    Ramadan will start on August 1 and ends on August 30.

    Let us check the moon phase on that date.


    AUGUST 1, 2011



    http://lunaf.com/english/moon-phases...ar-2011/08/01/



    AUGUST 30, 2011



    http://lunaf.com/english/moon-phases...ar-2011/08/30/


    The CRESCENT MOON symbol of the MOON GODDESS is evident in RAMADAN where it will commence on the first sighting of the CRESCENT MOON and ends also on the CRESCENT MOON.

    In compilation:

    1) Crescent Moon and Five Pointed Star symbol on top of Mosques
    2) Persistence of the number 5 in Islam in it's practices and beliefs
    3) Worship on the day of the moon goddess Frigga (Friday)
    4) Ramadan starts and ends on the CRESCENT MOON symbol


    Is ISLAM really founded on PAGAN origins? The evidence and facts speaks louder than words.

    It is conclusive that in the light of evidences and facts, the religious practices of ISLAM is ancient in origin and is centered upon the glorification of the ancient pagan moon goddess ASHTORETH.

    It seems to me that the continuation of the worship of this moon goddess continue up to this modern day through ISLAM.

  11. #11
    030 - Soorah ar-Room - (The Romans) - [Makkee]

    [030:042] Say (O Muhammad [sal-Allâhu 'alayhi wa sallam]): "Travel in the land and see what was the end of those before (you)! Most of them were Mushrikűn (polytheists, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh)."

    [030:043] So, set you (O Muhammad [sal-Allâhu 'alayhi wa sallam]) your face (in obedience to Allâh, your Lord) to the straight and right religion (Islâmic Monotheism), before there comes from Allâh a Day which none can avert. On that Day men shall be divided [(in two groups), a group in Paradise and a group in Hell].

    [030:044] Whosoever disbelieves will suffer from his disbelief, and whosoever does righteous good deeds (by practising Islâmic Monotheism), then such will prepare a good place (in Paradise) for themselves (and will be saved by Allâh from His torment).

    [030:045] That He may reward those who believe (in the Oneness of Allâh – Islâmic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, out of His bounty. Verily, He likes not the disbelievers.

    [030:046] And among His Signs is that He sends the winds as glad tidings, giving you a taste of His Mercy (i.e. rain), and that the ships may sail at His Command, and that you may seek of His bounty, in order that you may be thankful.

    [030:047] And indeed We did send Messengers before you (O Muhammad [sal-Allâhu 'alayhi wa sallam]) to their own peoples. They came to them with clear proofs, then, We took vengeance on those who committed crimes (disbelief, setting partners in worship with Allâh, sins); and (as for) the believers, it was incumbent upon Us to help (them).

    [030:048] Allâh is He Who sends the winds, so that they raise clouds and spread them along the sky as He wills, and then break them into fragments until you see rain drops come forth from their midst! Then when He has made them fall on whom of His slaves as He wills, lo, they rejoice!

    [030:049] And verily, before that (rain) – just before it was sent down upon them – they were in despair!

    [030:050] Look then at the effects (results) of Allâh's Mercy, how He revives the earth after its death. Verily, that (Allâh) (Who revived the earth after its death) shall indeed raise the dead (on the Day of Resurrection), and He is Able to do all things.

  12. #12
    Do Muslims have crescent moon's in their houses and kiss/worship them?
    It is embedded in your worship practice (praying 5 times day) and praying on the special day of the moon goddess (Frigg day or Friday) in which her symbol the CRESCENT AND FIVE POINTED STAR is on top of your mosque. You start your fast on the CRESCENT MOON symbol of the moon goddess.

    Whether you ignore it or not, you are effectively worshiping the moon goddess without your knowledge because you follow her sacred number (5) and her sacred symbol (crescent moon).

  13. #13
    ex-Catholic mani94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ascorbicacid31 View Post
    It is embedded in your worship practice (praying 5 times day) and praying on the special day of the moon goddess (Frigg day or Friday) in which her symbol the CRESCENT AND FIVE POINTED STAR is on top of your mosque. You start your fast on the CRESCENT MOON symbol of the moon goddess.

    Whether you ignore it or not, you are effectively worshiping the moon goddess without your knowledge because you follow her sacred number (5) and her sacred symbol (crescent moon).

  14. #14
    hehehe ikaw ang nagsasabi nyan, pero kami ay hindi namin sinasamba iyan nakapagpasyal kana ba sa Masjid o Mosque wala kang matatagpuan sa mga post mong collections pero kapag pumunta ka ng simbahan doon!!!!!!mo makikita, kuha mo!

    [030:043] So, set you (O Muhammad [sal-Allâhu 'alayhi wa sallam]) your face (in obedience to Allâh, your Lord) to the straight and right religion (Islâmic Monotheism), before there comes from Allâh a Day which none can avert. On that Day men shall be divided [(in two groups), a group in Paradise and a group in Hell].

    (Islâmic Monotheism) ano ang pagkakaitindi mo dito salungat kaya sa mga pagkaintindi mo kapatid o nagmamaangmaangan ka lang!!!

  15. #15
    Do Muslims have crescent moon's in their houses and kiss/worship them?


    Speaking of kissing/worship, Muslims actually kiss the black stone. However, little do they know, according to scholars, the black stone is actually an emblem of an idol worshiped by the pagans.


    Kindly read these sources:

    “…Black Stone was an emblem of Saturn and was left in the Kaaba by Mahabad.” - Islam, a challenge to faith: studies on the Mohammedan religion and the ...‎ by Samuel Marinus Zwemer- p.112

    “The Guebers assert that, among the images and relics left by Mahabad and his successors in the Ka’abah, was the Black Stone, an emblem of Saturn.” – Personal narrative of a pilgrimage to Al-Madinah a Meccah, Vol. 2, by Richard Francis Burton Sir, p. 307

    “The stone was worshipped centuries before MOHAMMED. In Persian legend it was an emblem of SATURN.” - Robert Motherwell & black, Issue 10 by ‎ Stephanie Terenzio, p. 63

    “Indeed, even to this hour, the black stone of the Kabah is considered the emblem of Saturn, to whom that Kabah was especially dedicated” - The palaces of Nineveh and Persepolis restored: an essay on ancient Assyrian ...‎ by James Fergusson, p.208

    ...

    Since the Black Stone is on the Ka'ba, according to these sources:


    “And in Islam, whose holy house, the Kaaba, had traditionally been a temple of Saturn” – The Diwan of Abu’l-Ala by Henry Baerlein, p.16

    “The temple or tabernacle at Mecca was dedicated to Saturn or Zonal” - A dictionary of geography, ancient and modern by ‎ Josiah Conder, p. 410

    “Some experts suppose it to have been a pagan idol long before Muhammad lived, when the Kaaba was a temple to Saturn.” - Reverie, an autobiography‎ by Adelaide Ross, p. 178


    According to these sources, the Black Stone in which the Muslim kisses during their pilgrimage in Mecca is actually the stone of the idol Saturn and the Ka'ba itself is a temple of Saturn.

    How could Muhammad miss this? He could have destroyed the Saturnian Black Stone and the Ka'ba (temple of Saturn) like what all the prophets did in the Old Testament. He could have also destroyed the symbol of the moon goddess and not embed the number 5 and the crescent moon symbol in their religion. But, we see a preservation of this ancient practice dedicated to the pagan idol. How come?

    Did he really destroy these idols?

  16. #16
    (V.14:37). The Story of the building of the Ka'bah at Makkah:
    Narrated Ibn 'Abbâs [radhi-yAllâhu 'anhu]: [On the authority of the Prophet [sal-Allâhu 'alayhi wa sallam] (see Fath Al-Bari).] The first lady to use a girdle was the mother of Ismâ'îl (Ishmael). She used a girdle so that she might hide her tracks from Sârah. Ibrâhîm (Abraham) brought her and her son Ismâ'îl (Ishmael) while she used to nurse him at her breast, near the Ka'bah under a tree on the spot of Zamzam, at the highest place in the mosque. During those days there was nobody in Makkah, nor was there any water. So he made them sit over there and placed near them a leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing some water, and set out homeward. Ismâ'îl's (Ishmael's) mother followed him saying, "O Ibrâhîm (Abraham)! Where are you going, leaving us in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy, nor is there anything (to enjoy)?" She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her. Then she asked him, "Has Allâh ordered you to do so?" He said, "Yes." She said, "Then He will not neglect us," and returned while Ibrâhîm (Abraham) proceeded onwards, and on reaching the Thaniyyah where they could not see him, he faced the Ka'bah, and raising both hands invoked Allâh saying the following supplication:
    "O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in an uncultivable valley by Your Sacred House (the Ka'bah at Makkah) in order, O our Lord, that they may perform As-Salât (the prayers). So fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allâh) provide them with fruits, so that they may give thanks." (V.14:37)
    Ismâ'îl's (Ishmael's) mother went on suckling Ismâ'îl (Ishmael) and drinking from the water (she had). When the water in the water-skin had all been used up, she became thirsty and her child also became thirsty. She started looking at him [i.e. Ismâ'îl (Ishmael)] tossing in agony; she left him, for she could not endure looking at him, and found that the mountain of As-Safâ was the nearest mountain to her on that land. She stood on it and started looking at the valley keenly so that she might see somebody, but she could not see anybody. Then she descended from As-Safâ and when she reached the valley, she tucked up her robe and ran in the valley like a person in distress and trouble, till she crossed the valley and reached Al-Marwah mountain where she stood and started looking, expecting to see somebody, but she could not see anybody. She repeated that (running between As-Safâ and Al-Marwah) seven times." The Prophet [sal-Allâhu 'alayhi wa sallam] said, "This is the source of the tradition of the Sa'y (the going) of people between them (i.e. As-Safâ and Al-Marwah). When she reached Al-Marwah (for the last time) she heard a voice and she asked herself to be quiet and listened attentively. She heard the voice again and said, 'O (whoever you may be)! You have made me hear your voice; have you got something to help me?' And behold! She saw an angel at the place of Zamzam, digging the earth with his heel (or his wing), till water flowed from that place. She started to make something like a basin around it, using her hands in this way and started filling her water-skin with water with her hands, and the water was flowing out after she had scooped some of it." The Prophet [sal-Allâhu 'alayhi wa sallam] added, "May Allâh bestow mercy on Ismâ'îl's (Ishmael's) mother! Had she let the Zamzam (flow without trying to control it) (or had she not scooped from that water) (to fill her water-skin), Zamzam would have been a stream flowing on the surface of the earth." The Prophet [sal-Allâhu 'alayhi wa sallam] further added, "Then she drank (water) and suckled her child. The angel said to her, 'Don't be afraid of being neglected, for this is the House of Allâh which will be built by this boy and his father, and Allâh never neglects His people.' The House (i.e. Ka'bah) at that time was on a high place resembling a hillock, and when torrents came, they flowed to its right and left. She lived in that way till some people from the tribe of Jurhum or a family from Jurhum passed by her and her child, as they (i.e. the Jurhum people) were coming through the way of Kadâ'. They landed in the lower part of Makkah where they saw a bird that had the habit of flying around water and not leaving it. They said, 'This bird must be flying around water, though we know that there is no water in this valley.' They sent one or two messengers who discovered the source of water, and returned to inform them of the water. So, they all came (towards the water)." The Prophet [sal-Allâhu 'alayhi wa sallam] added, "Ismâ'îl's (Ishmael's) mother was sitting near the water. They asked her, 'Do you allow us to stay with you?' She replied, 'Yes, but you will have no right to possess the water.' They agreed to that." The Prophet [sal-Allâhu 'alayhi wa sallam] further said, "Ismâ'îl's (Ishmael's) mother was pleased with the whole situation as she used to love to enjoy the company of the people. So, they settled there, and later on they sent for their families who came and settled with them so that some families became permanent residents there. The child [i.e. Ismâ'îl (Ishmael)] grew up and learnt Arabic from them and (his virtues) caused them to love and admire him as he grew up, and when he reached the age of puberty they made him marry a woman from amongst them. After Ismâ'îl's (Ishmael's) mother had died, Ibrâhîm (Abraham) came after Ismâ'îl's (Ishmael's) marriage in order to see his family that he had left before, but he did not find Ismâ'îl (Ishmael) there. When he asked Ismâ'îl's (Ishmael's) wife about him, she replied, 'He has gone in search of our livelihood.' Then he asked her about their way of living and their condition, and she replied, 'We are living in misery; we are living in hardship and destitution,' complaining to him. He said, 'When your husband returns, convey my salutation to him and tell him to change the threshold of the gate (of his house).' When Ismâ'îl (Ishmael) came, he seemed to have felt something unusual, so he asked his wife, 'Has anyone visited you?' She replied, 'Yes, an old man of such and such description came and asked me about you and I informed him, and he asked about our state of living, and I told him that we were living in a hardship and poverty.' On that Ismâ'îl (Ishmael) said, 'Did he advise you anything?' She replied, 'Yes, he told me to convey his salutation to you and to tell you to change the threshold of your gate.' Ismâ'îl (Ishmael) said, 'It was my father, and he has ordered me to divorce you. Go back to your family.' So, Ismâ'îl (Ishmael) divorced her and married another woman from amongst them (i.e. Jurhum). Then Ibrâhîm (Abraham) stayed away from them for a period as long as Allâh wished and called on them again but did not find Ismâ'îl (Ishmael). So he came to Ismâ'îl's (Ishmael's) wife and asked her about Ismâ'îl (Ishmael). She said, 'He has gone in search of our livelihood.' Ibrâhîm (Abraham) asked her, 'How are you getting on?' asking her about their sustenance and living. She replied, 'We are prosperous and well-off (i.e. we have everything in abundance).' Then she thanked Allâh [Subhânahu wa Ta'âla]. Ibrâhîm (Abraham) said, 'What kind of food do you eat?' She said, 'Meat.' He said, 'What do you drink?' She said, 'Water.' He said, 'O Allâh! Bless their meat and water.' " The Prophet [sal-Allâhu 'alayhi wa sallam] added, "At that time they did not have grain, and if they had grain, he would have also invoked Allâh to bless it." The Prophet [sal-Allâhu 'alayhi wa sallam] added, "If somebody has only these two things as his sustenance, his health and disposition will be badly affected, unless he lives in Makkah." The Prophet [sal-Allâhu 'alayhi wa sallam] added, "Then Ibrâhîm (Abraham) said to Ismâ'îl's (Ishmael) wife, 'When your husband comes, give my regards to him and tell him that he should keep firm the threshold of his gate.' When Ismâ'îl (Ishmael) came back, he asked his wife, 'Did anyone call on you?' She replied, 'Yes, a good-looking old man came to me,' so she praised him and added. 'He asked about you, and I informed him, and he asked about our livelihood and I told him that we were in a good condition.' Ismâ'îl (Ishmael) asked her, 'Did he give you any piece of advice?' She said, 'Yes, he told me to give his regards to you and ordered that you should keep firm the threshold of your gate.' On that Ismâ'îl (Ishmael) said, 'It was my father, and you are the threshold (of the gate). He has ordered me to keep you with me.' Then Ibrâhîm (Abraham) stayed away from them for a period as long as Allâh wished, and called on them afterwards. He saw Ismâ'îl (Ishmael) under a tree near Zamzam, sharpening his arrows. When he saw Ibrâhîm (Abraham), he rose up to welcome him (and they greeted each other as a father does with his son or a son does with his father). Ibrâhîm (Abraham) said, 'O Ismâ'îl (Ishmael)! Allâh has given me an order.' Ismâ'îl (Ishmael) said, 'Do what your Lord has ordered you to do.' Ibrâhîm (Abraham) asked, 'Will you help me?' Ismâ'îl (Ishmael) said, 'I will help you.' Ibrâhîm (Abraham) said, 'Allâh has ordered me to build a house here,' pointing to a hillock higher than the land surrounding it.' " The Prophet [sal-Allâhu 'alayhi wa sallam] added, "Then they raised the foundations of the House (i.e. the Ka'bah). Ismâ'îl (Ishmael) brought the stones and Ibrâhîm (Abraham) was building; and when the walls became high, Ismâ'îl (Ishmael) brought this stone and put it for Ibrâhîm (Abraham) who stood over it and carried on building, while Ismâ'îl (Ishmael) was handing him the stones, and both of them were saying, 'O our Lord! Accept (this service) from us. Verily, You are the All-Hearer the All-Knower.' " (V.2:127).
    The Prophet [sal-Allâhu 'alayhi wa sallam] added, "Then both of them went on building and going round the Ka'bah saying 'O our Lord! Accept (this service) from us. Verily, You are the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.' " (V.2:127)
    [Sahih Al-Bukhari, 4/3364 (O.P.583)]

  17. #17
    Who is Saturn by the way? Just like the moon goddess, Saturn has also many names across cultures.

    According to these references, Saturn is known as:

    “The name Molock is another name for Baal-Nimrod-Tammuz. Tam means ‘to perfect’ and ‘mus’ ‘to burn’. The name Molock is identified with the Roman god Saturn. It is an Ammonite name, which signifies king. Chium means austere, severe, grave, and judgment. In the Encyclopedia Biblical Chium is of frequent occurrence in Babylonian mythological and religious texts as the name of the planet Saturn. Rimmon was the Syrian name (2nd Kings 5:18) for Molock, which was also known as ‘Remphan’ just as Chiun was also Cheran. Remphan was the Egyptian name for Saturn.” – Behold a White Horse By Cisco Wheeler, pp. 172-173

    The orthodox Godwyn considers Molok, Baal, and Saturn as one, or phases of the one Solar Fire-god, who was the special favorite of the Amonites and Moabites, but who was also worshipped and duly sacrificed to, in the valley of Ben-hinnom.” Rivers of Life: Or Sources and Streams of the Faith of Man in All Lands by J.G.R. Forlong, p. 529

    “In other words, Mithras is Saturn and Oceanus as well and thus the creator of both fertility and water.” - Mithras, the Secret God, M.J. Vermaseren, London, 1963


    ....

    According to these references, Saturn is also known on these names across cultures:

    1) Baal
    2) Molock
    3) Chiun
    4) Remphan
    5) Cheran
    6) Rimmon
    7) Mithras


    In other words, the BLACK STONE of SATURN is actually the BLACK STONE of BAAL and the KA'BA is the TEMPLE of BAAL!!!

    Wow... This is unbelievable!!

  18. #18
    ex-Catholic mani94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ascorbicacid31 View Post


    Speaking of kissing/worship, Muslims actually kiss the black stone. However, little do they know, according to scholars, the black stone is actually an emblem of an idol worshiped by the pagans.
    Black Stone An Idol?

    We don't have black stone's in our houses and places of worship. The Black Stone serves to mark the start of each round around the Ka'bah seven times (Tawaf). The stone can not harm anyone, nor benefit anyone, Muslims don't worship it . Abraham (peace be upon him) ordered his son to choose a piece of stone to mark the main cornerpoint of the Ka'bah, this is the one (Archangel Gabriel gave it). For more info read further below.
    ---

    And (remember) when Ibrahim (Abraham) and (his son) Isma'il (Ishmael) were raising the foundations of the House (the Ka'bah) at Mecca, (saying), 'Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us. Verily! You are the All-Hearer, all Knower.
    [Noble Quran 2:127]

    The father and the son, true Monotheists (Muslims), were thus raising the foundations with trembling hearts, for the Muslims are Allah's most devoted servants, ever fearful of his displeasure. While building the Ka'bah, therefore, both of them were afraid that Allah may not accept their humble service, hence that prayer of theirs. When raised to a certain height, Ibrahim (peace be upon him) ordered his son to choose a piece of stone to mark the main cornerpoint. Even as the lad was searching for it, the Archangel Gabriel appeared with the Black Stone from Heaven.

    Abraham (peace be upon him) took it up and fitted it in, and there it stands up to this day. It is a heavenly stone, then, and not an earthly one. It was selected by Allah for His Holy House (the Ka'bah).

    Our Lord! And make us submissive unto you and of our offspring a nation submissive unto You, and show us our Manasik (all the ceremonies of Pilgrimage - Hajj and ‘Umrah etc.) and accept our repentance. Truly, You are the One Who accepts repentance, the Most Merciful.
    [Noble Quran 2:128]
    ---

    Assuming that the Black Stone is missing for one reason or another, does it render the Tawaf and Pilgrimage invalid and void on such account? Absolutely not. This is exactly what has already happened in the history of Islam. The Karamathians (Arabic: al-Qaramitah), the most un-Islamic sect in Islam, had removed the Black Stone during their mad merrymaking in the year 317 AH/980 AD. They carried it away with them to their territory in Al-Ahsa (in the Arabian Gulf). After keeping it there for twenty years, they had returned it back to Mecca in the year 339 AH (see shorter Encyclopedia Leiden 1953, P. 219). In such an event, the Shari'ah (Law) maintains that the pilgrim shall perform his Tawaf without the Black stone. Instead of the Black Stone, the pilgrim shall touch its place at the corner of the Ka'bah, or point at its spot, and continue his Tawaf. Thus the total absence of the Stone itself makes no difference in the validity of the Tawaf and the Pilgrimage.

    This shows how tiny a part is being played by this stone. How ignorant of others and how childish, therefore, sounds the charge that it is the "most Precious Idol preserved by Islam"!

    ---

    For a complete explanation:
    Black Stone An Idol? Hajj a Pagan Right?
    Hajj - Pagan Worship of a Black Stone or Moon-god?

  19. #19
    Hay! nakakalungkot na puro na lang copy, cut and paste ang nababasa.

    Nais ko sanang mapag-usapan kung saan ba ang aral namin tungkol sa sinasabi ng taong ito na crescent moon.

    Nakakatamad basahin iyong mahahabang copy and paste gayong puwede naman pag-usapan kung ano ang unawa niya sa crescent moon na ito at ipinagdikdikan niya na simbolo sa Islam.

    About sa black stone ang source niya hindi muslim

  20. #20
    "JINNS" are 100% pagan arab desert myth.

    ni walang ganyan sa torah.

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