MLM Misrepresentations & the Truth behind them

[kimerran]

nakakalungkot lang na baka mas manaig yung "takot" ng isang makakabasa nito kesa sa kagustuhan nyang i-try ang ganitong klase ng business.

[paul3306]

other opportunity does exists.
sadly it is not available to everyone, probably not skilled for it, or doesnt have the resources needed.


examples you had given are good, its very american-like


not everyone in the philippines is as gifted/blessed as we are

there are people who doesnt have their own computers, (any business opportunity requiring a PC or an internet connection will be a challenge for them), but its not impossible.

insurance for example, out of the couple thousand people I had met, only a couple hundred is willing to pay for an insurance. Willing, but not paying for one. they couldnt afford it.

I know only 1 girl who has an insurance (personally paying for one)

Manufacturers representative, can you imagine someone living in a squatters area doing this?

all your example is very good, but it is only available to a specific group/class of people

why does the law even allow network marketing companies to exist if it is such as bad as people say it is?

-shouldnt DTI/SEC had not allowed these types of businesses to register at the first place.
-Why is BFAD approving their products
-why are some companies getting ISO certifications and halal certifications

shouldnt jolibee be stopped as well?
-they're selling a oily/unhealthy/pricey/delicious foods
-they are franchising (where all franchise needs to pay several millions for the franchise, then pay an expensive royalty fee every month)

shouldnt bench be stopped as well?
-they are selling expensive clothes, yet only the owner is making the most money



everyone knows, (at least i think everyone knows) that top earners of MLM are the ones who got it early. but it doesnt mean that every one below them is not earning.

FYI, there are people earning millions a month with MLM.
then there are those who earns one thousand pesos a month

one thousand extra pesos a month in the philippines is a huge money. after all, its just extra money. not necessarily their bread and butter


gambling in casino?
jueteng at videocarera po dito sa pilipinas, hindi uso casino. ang mga tao sa casino dito, hindi na kailangan ng mga income opportunity. kasi mayayaman na sila or may kaya na sa buhay


USA and philippine economy is very different, thus businesses and the way they operate are different as well. siguro walang kwenta mag MLM sa USA, (I'm not sure), pero sa pilipinas, isa itong magandang paraan para kumita ng pera.


options you gave out are all feasible, we probably be making more money with those options if we are not in the philippines.

while some people hates MLM so much, let us not take away this opportunity to those who are able to make a living out of it.

[paul3306]

nakakalungkot lang na baka mas manaig yung "takot" ng isang makakabasa nito kesa sa kagustuhan nyang i-try ang ganitong klase ng business.

you are absolutely right, dapat itigil na ng mga mods ang ganitong klaseng threads.

title pa nga lamang ng thread, mapanira na
paano pa kaya ang mga messages sa loob.

kung papayagan nila ang ganitong threads, dapat meron din thread na:

-Employement misrepresentation (work hard for us, we pay you almost nothing, while we enjoy our life)

-Call center Misrepresentation (8 hours non stop calls from our no-brainer customers, for a salary we hope would fit your needs, we will give you commissions thats not even 1% of what the company earned from your hard work)

-Education misrepresentation (enslaved 14-16 years at school, we will teach you basic book stuffs, but we wont teach you important lessons in life)
etc...

[jong_deleon]

As MLM grows, struggling consumers who fall for MLM suffer, families suffer, legitimate businesses suffer, and society at large suffers.

In the long run, impoverishment of participants is not the worst of problems with MLM. Participants squander their “social capital,” placing in jeopardy those relationships they have spent a lifetime cultivating.

[tennisace]

you are absolutely right, dapat itigil na ng mga mods ang ganitong klaseng threads.

title pa nga lamang ng thread, mapanira na
paano pa kaya ang mga messages sa loob.

kung papayagan nila ang ganitong threads, dapat meron din thread na:

-Employement misrepresentation (work hard for us, we pay you almost nothing, while we enjoy our life)

-Call center Misrepresentation (8 hours non stop calls from our no-brainer customers, for a salary we hope would fit your needs, we will give you commissions thats not even 1% of what the company earned from your hard work)

-Education misrepresentation (enslaved 14-16 years at school, we will teach you basic book stuffs, but we wont teach you important lessons in life)
etc...

Why should threads like these be disallowed or banned?

The posts made herein are facts and anyone is certainly free to refute them and to provide their own factual counterpoints.

Anyone who wants to get into a money-making activity must do their due diligence. Just because some MLM promoter says its a good thing doesn't make it so. Banning threads that expose the seedy side of the so-called business doesn't change the facts.

If you or anyone else wants to discuss the misinterpretations you are alluding to then go ahead. No one is stopping you from doing so.

[crocopie]

In Summary:

MLM sucks. Don't invest in it, or you'll end up poor and ugly as Genta Ogami. I wir herp the pipor op da Piripins!


HAAAIIII!

[kimerran]

mahirap pa din siguro yung iba kung di nila tinry mag MLM

[jong_deleon]

... “They can’t be bad people, if they do such good things.” (MLMs donating to charities) To use an appropriate metaphor – If you rob a bank and then give 15% to charity, the bank robbery is OK, right?

[makluwi]

MLM is for success minded people. Hindi totoo na pag nauna ka sa MLM ikaw na ang kikita. In MLM, income will always depend on the leadership, time and effort you apply. Most people fail in MLM because they QUIT.

[sushihunk26]

MLM is a good opportunity and this is a business that allows you to help people to become financially free before you can get what you actually want. Beware of get rich quick schemes! To those people who are saying that MLM sucks, these are the people who do not even know what they're talking about. Probably, lack of education about MLM. These are the people who are considered failures in their own endeavors. Very pathetic!

[tennisace]

In fairness, I have to say that MLM is an opportunity. But to say that it’s a good opportunity is debatable.

“...allows you to help people to become financially free before you can get what you actually want...”

So, people you help become rich before you do? I can appreciate the sense of altruism here, but it doesn’t make a whole of lot of business sense. Why the heck would I want someone else to get rich on my dime? On second thoughts, perhaps it does: the people you are helping, i.e, your upline’s uplines, are actually getting rich long before you ever will. The fact is, all this altruistic propaganda you hear from MLM recruiters is simply a mind game. It is a means to supplant logic with emotion, the purpose of which is ultimately to soften up the prospect for recruitment.

It would probably help if you actually read the MLM misrepresentations and truths presented by jong_deleon, then present your own counterpoints and rebuttals instead of making a rather inane statement that those opposed are either clueless or lack education regarding MLM. It seems to me that you, in fact, are the clueless one.

What’s pathetic is that I see a lot of MLM disciples become so indoctrinated that they lose their capacity for logic and reason.

The only selling I see in these forums is the selling of a dream. And I thought this was about the selling of a product or service to an honest-to-goodness consumer. Bah! Humbug!

[jm.0022]

MLMs are not pyramid schemes, but legitimate direct selling programs.

MLM is far more risky than the job market. There is no real security in MLM comparable to a typical employment arrangement, however unstable.

New recruits soon learn that it is easier to buy than to sell – in order to meet their quota.

MLM creates thousands of middlemen, with few real customers outside the network of “distributors”. Due to a bloated hierarchy of participants, MLM products are very expensive and cannot compete with comparable products from alternate sources. And anyone who believes that MLM products are less expensive than comparable products elsewhere has not shopped around much.

It should come as no surprise to anyone that scientists like to eat and enjoy the good things in life like everyone else. If they are offered enough money, top flight scientists, engineers, technicians, etc. can be found to add credibility to an MLM's product line – no matter how good or questionable they may be.


Thank you. Nice thread sir

Opinion ko lang po. walang masama sa pagkita as middle man sa consumers using mlm. ang di ko lang talaga gusto ay yung mga mlm companies na nag eexist ngayon at yung mga misleading words ng karamihan ng mga recruiters ng mga mlm na yun. kung pantay lang sana ang presyo ng products ng mlm companies sa presyo ng commercial products ay ok naman ang mlm para sa akin.

[jm.0022]

"the bulk of the commissions, which drives them to place almost total effort on recruitment and not on selling products to non-participants."

ok ang mlm. dapat lang ang maging mind setting ai tulad sa isang traditional retail store, ang sales sa consumers ang main source ng income hindi sa pag oopen o pagfafranchise sa ibang tao o pagrerecruit ng bagong members. mas maganda sana kung mlm na direct selling, hindi yung mlm na recruitment lang talaga.

[sushihunk26]

I'm sorry but I don't listen to people who hate the mlm industry. I said this before and I will say it again. These people are the ones who don't have an idea about what the industry is all about. If some guys hate MLM, there are books you can read about the industry.

Network marketing is like sowing and reaping. This business is only for people who are ready to sacrifice before getting the rewards they seek. Ask yourself, do you have what it takes? If the answer is no, then this business is not for you pal.

[tennisace]

I'm sorry but I don't listen to people who hate the mlm industry. I said this before and I will say it again. These people are the ones who don't have an idea about what the industry is all about. If some guys hate MLM, there are books you can read about the industry.

Network marketing is like sowing and reaping. This business is only for people who are ready to sacrifice before getting the rewards they seek. Ask yourself, do you have what it takes? If the answer is no, then this business is not for you pal.

It’s quite ironic that MLM recruiters always tell us to be open-minded and yet here we have an MLM devotee who just shuts down completely when contrarian views are presented.

Any business is “like sowing and reaping”. Any business requires sacrifice. These demands are not exclusive to MLM. However, anyone who is serious about going into business exercises thorough due diligence, something that you might have neglected to do. It is the MLM recruiter’s job to suck you in. MLM threads like this are necessary and important so that prospects may make an informed decision.

I don’t hate the MLM industry, so perhaps you will listen. You think you know the MLM industry. Well, I don't think you do as much as you think you do. MLM companies run their business like any other. The MLM company you distribute for is not your company. To suggest that you are a part of this company is misleading.

If you truly know what the industry is about, why don’t you address the issues presented here? Avoiding the issues and apologizing for not listening to “people who hate the MLM industry” is amateurish.

[laffoutloud]

I like this thread. I felt like I was in a courtroom wherein there are two sides giving their serious opinions/pov. Both sides have their point and it's up to the reader(pexers) to judge it.

Okay petix time ako sa office (Sunday pa sa US...BPO ako work) kaya may time ako mag post, gusto ko naman na maka-masa kaya tatagalugin/itaglish ko yung opinyon ko

Sa hirap ng buhay ngayon sa pinas (maraming unemployed o mababa suweldo) marami ang sumusubok sa networking. Marami rin na ang AKALA madali ang pagyaman sa networking. HINDI po totoo yun dahil kailangan mo rin pag-aralan yung pinasok na negosyo (naku baka may magsabi hindi mo negosyo yan, nakiki negosyo ka lang... baka me attorney dito paki-explain ng mga legalities pero in layman's term at pagkakaalam ko, may investment involve kaya negosyo siya).

Marami din naman yumaman sa networking, kaya marami rin ang nagbabakasakali na maging ganun sila at kung nagawa ng taong yumaman sa MLM e kaya rin niya yumaman. Yun lang pagdating ng mga 3-6 months at wala pa rin nangyayari sa MLM na pinasok niya, quit na. Dun na magsimula yung feeling na naisahan ka at lahat na ng mga negative e maiisip mo na kaya maraming tao ang ayaw sa networking. Nadala na. Pakibasa na lang mga post ni pareng jhong de leon--medyo marami nga lang, effort lang talaga pag post niya against MLM. I wonder why ahehe..

Dahil may extra money naman ako at P888 lang yung investment kaya nag invest na ako sa isang lowrisk MLM (pm nyo na lang ako if interested kayo--hehe sumesegway ako uli sa pag iinvite, sorry). Nag try ako mag MLM para mawala na rin yung "what ifs" ko at di naman din ako lugi dahil may product naman na agad na kapalit. May mga trainings pa na parang pang personality development (sa group po namin yun) at dami ko nakikilala na mga mas bata pa sakin pero nagrisk na sa MLM at yung iba kumikita naman talaga.

Pinaka okay sa kin yung training dahil magagamit ko yun to motivate myself at pati rin sa pag-invite sa mga prospects ko. Yun kase muna yung first way, learn first before you earn. May iba kase gusto kikita na agad ng malaki. Lahat po ng bagay kailangan pag-aralan. Mag succeed or hindi man ako sa MLM, at least may natutunan ako.

Medyo mahaba na yung post ko kaya eto na lang muna, hanggang sa muling petix time...

[decaf]

Pinaka okay sa kin yung training dahil magagamit ko yun to motivate myself at pati rin sa pag-invite sa mga prospects ko. Yun kase muna yung first way, learn first before you earn. May iba kase gusto kikita na agad ng malaki. Lahat po ng bagay kailangan pag-aralan. Mag succeed or hindi man ako sa MLM, at least may natutunan ako.

ito po ay isang magandang halimbawa kung bakit maraming galit sa mlm.

ilang simpleng katanongan: sa mga "training" at "personality development" na napuntahan mo, nagpakita ba sila ng mga scientific studies na nagpapatunay ng kagalingan ng inyong produkto? pinag-aralan nyo ba kung ano ang mga produktong kalaban nyo at ano ang market share ng bawat isa? nagsabi ba sila ng mga hakbangin para mapahusay pa ang inyong produkto?

aminin mo man o hindi, hindi ito tinatalakay sa inyong "training" dahil hindi naman talaga ang produkto ang focus ng inyong network. ang tunay nyong "produkto" ay ang paghikayat ng mga bagong miyembro.

ano naman ang masama dito? masama ito dahil alam mo na hindi magtatagal ang "produktong" ito. darating ang panahon na mauubos ang taong ma-re-recruit.

ibig sabihin, nais mong kumita at magpakayaman sa pagbebenta ng isang depektibong "produkto" na hindi magtatagal. ito ay isang garapalang panloloko ng kapwa. maraming taong galit dito kaya maraming taong galit sa mlm.

[laffoutloud]

ito po ay isang magandang halimbawa kung bakit maraming galit sa mlm.

ilang simpleng katanongan: sa mga "training" at "personality development" na napuntahan mo, nagpakita ba sila ng mga scientific studies na nagpapatunay ng kagalingan ng inyong produkto? pinag-aralan nyo ba kung ano ang mga produktong kalaban nyo at ano ang market share ng bawat isa? nagsabi ba sila ng mga hakbangin para mapahusay pa ang inyong produkto?

aminin mo man o hindi, hindi ito tinatalakay sa inyong "training" dahil hindi naman talaga ang produkto ang focus ng inyong network. ang tunay nyong "produkto" ay ang paghikayat ng mga bagong miyembro.

ano naman ang masama dito? masama ito dahil alam mo na hindi magtatagal ang "produktong" ito. darating ang panahon na mauubos ang taong ma-re-recruit.

ibig sabihin, nais mong kumita at magpakayaman sa pagbebenta ng isang depektibong "produkto" na hindi magtatagal. ito ay isang garapalang panloloko ng kapwa. maraming taong galit dito kaya maraming taong galit sa mlm.

May office po ang peaklife sa Boni Mandaluyong, at kung gusto mo sasamahan kita sa mga nag reresearch at nag-iimprove ng mga produkto (Pm mo ako para ma set natin kung kelan). Maghanap ka rin ng website kung meron mang kasiraan sa produkto ng peaklife/empower at bigay mo sakin para puwede ko ibigay sa office. Simpleng miyembro lang ako at di ako empleyado ng peaklife para pagtanggol sila kaya baka magkaron pa ko ng bonus pag meron ngang kasiraan diyan.

Ganito lang yun e... kung mag magpapaliwanag ako ng sobrang haba pero SARADO naman ang isip at ang nasa isip lagi e negatibo, hindi matatapos ang debateng ito. Mas maganda kung samahan na lang kita sa mismong opisina ng peaklife para sila na magpaliwanag sayo.

Kung ano ang paniniwala mo ay gagalangin ko. Di naman natin makakaila na may mga nagtagumpay sa MLM. Totoo, marami rin ang di nagtagumpay at sinabi na naloko sila. Hindi naman lahat ng bagay puro positibo. Sa larangan ng MLM, may pagsugal din diyan dahil mamumuhunan ka at maglalabas ng pera. Hindi ba't halos katulad din ito ng tradisyunal na negosyo na may mas malaki pang puhunan? Kahit nga mutual funds o stocks, may iba na milyon pa ang natalo sa kanila kase sumugal sila.

At sa halagang 888 ng peaklife, di na ko talo. Nagbakasakali ako e. Sideline ko lang siya dahil may trabaho pa rin naman ako. Kaya magtagumpay man ako o hindi, may natutunan ako kase ang mga networkers ngayon hindi na katulad dati na walang nag mmentor sa kanila. Ang tinuturo nila e ayon sa mga naranasan nila. Masarap makinig sa kanila at nakakatuwa na yung iba mas bata pa sakin pero naging okay sa MLM.

Naku humaba na naman, pasensya na petix kase ko sa opis ngayon...

Maligayang Pasko...

[jong_deleon]

By following the steps outlined here, a more truthful assessment can be made. Here is how should a person being recruited into an MLM estimate the true odds of their being successful, regardless of effort:

Step 1: Obtain average earnings statistics.
Obtain from the MLM recruiter the average earnings statistics for the MLM you are examining, showing the average amount of money paid by the company in commissions and bonuses to participants at the various levels in the compensation plan.

Caution: If the MLM won't provide statistics of average earnings, you should consider that a red flag, as it would for anything promoted as a “business opportunity” or “income opportunity.”

Step 2: Determine total incentivized or “pay to play” expenses – and other purchases expected of participants.
From the compensation plan, determine the minimum incentivized or “pay to play” purchase requirements. In other words, how much in products and services will you be expected to purchase (even if supposedly for resale) in order to qualify for commissions and bonuses, and to advance up the various levels in the pay plan.

Caution: Avoid falling for the ruse that you don’t have to purchase anything, or that you can sign up just to get the products at a discount. If you listen carefully to the pitch of the MLM recruiter, it should soon become clear whether they are selling the products, or the opportunity. If the latter, it is deceptive to sell you on signing up so you can buy products. Ask this question: “Is this a buyers’ club - or an opportunity chain?”

Step 3: Try to find out the average total amount of money paid to the company by participants.
If the company will provide it, you should also get the average of the total amount of money paid to the company by participants at each level for products and services purchased from the company. It is an important piece of information that MLMs have been unwilling to provide, though it is crucial information, since prospects have a right to know the likelihood they will lose money or come out ahead. Even if – as MLM promoters claim – it was not possible to get total operating expenses, average amounts of money paid in to the company per participant should be readily available.

Caution: Avoid falling for the line that purchases that you make for their own use are purchases you would have made anyway and therefore should not count. Typically, similar products can be purchased for a small fraction of the price from alternative sources. And purchases are seldom continued after participants terminate.
The point that you want to determine is how many people come out ahead financially from their participation. The formula for profitability is very simple – money paid by the MLM to participants less money paid to the MLM by participants. Most, if not all calculations show the balance is nearly always negative, meaning a net loss for participants. And it is even worse if you subtract operating expenses.

Avoid accepting uncritically the MLM promoter’s claims that the products have magical properties that will heal or prevent every disease on the planet and that they can only be obtained through this particular MLM. Many MLM promoters claim to have the latest and greatest “pills, potions, and lotions” – or the best and most unique of some other products or services. Note the ingredients and shop around for at least comparable products through other outlets – you will be surprised at what you can save.

Step 4: Obtain – or estimate – the company’s attrition/retention rate.
Prospects should ask their recruiter to furnish the company’s attrition (dropout) rate; i.e., the percentage of recruits who sign up only to drop out within a year – and over a five or ten-year period. If they can’t or won’t furnish it, you can assume that it exceeds the minimum of 50% per year. Over a five-year period, at least 95% typically have left the company; and usually after ten years, nearly all but those at or near the top of their respective pyramids will have dropped out.
At the very least, you can assume that 90% of participants will terminate within five years, and at least 95% within ten years. This is useful to know, since MLM's published average earnings reports will often include top-level participants who were there from the beginning – which may be ten years or more. To be statistically valid, all dropouts and terminations should be included for the same period as for those participants included at the top levels.
If any company challenges the assumption of attrition of 90% for five years, and 95% for ten years (or retention rates of 10% and 5% respectively), ask company officials for data to prove otherwise.

Caution: Don't accept an MLM’s statistic for the total number of "active" distributors or participants as the base used for calculating what percentage of participants succeeded in rising to the various levels. Again, if the "successful" participants who have been with the MLM for ten years are counted, then every person who signed on with the program during that same ten-year time period. should be counted in calculating success rates - whether they are active, inactive, or terminated. The MLM practice of comparing only currently "active" participants (most of whom have been there only a short time) with "successful" participants who have been there for many years, greatly skews the numbers in their favor - a huge deception.

[jong_deleon]

...

Step 5: Obtain – or estimate – minimum operating expenses needed to conduct a successful recruitment campaign.
Estimate minimum operating expenses necessary to successfully recruit. It is true that most MLM participants purchase a few products, find recruiting and selling very tough, and then quit without spending much money. But hundreds of MLM participants rarely – if ever – move into the profit column without an aggressive recruitment campaign carried out over a period of time.

Caution: MLM promopters often claim that many or most participants just work part time for a little cash to supplement income, to meet Christmas expenses, etc. This is one of their biggest deceptions. Profitability in MLM does not come cheaply or easily. It’s very costly and time-consuming, and compensation plans require consistent effort over time to advance in any MLM scheme.

Don’t accept the argument by promoters that success in MLM recruitment costs little or nothing. New MLM recruiters will soon start getting the cold shoulder from friends and relatives and have to recruit elsewhere. Again, anyone who climbs the ladder in the compensation plan must spend not only a great deal of time, but a considerable amount of money to be successful.

Step 6: Calculate the profit/loss rate.
Now put it all together. This means debunking the figures supplied by the company by including ALL who signed up during the same period during which those who “succeeded” are counted – and then subtracting expenses as explained above. Even if you just go back five years, you can multiply the MLM company’s published success rate by a factor of 0.10 (retention rate with 0.90 attrition rate) to get a success rate much closer to the truth. Then select all distributors who earned enough to have exceeded the break-even point; i.e., incentivized or “pay to play” purchases plus estimated operating costs. Again, don’t assume resale of products at heightened retail prices unless they can show you the actual sales receipts to prove it.