Shiite Islam Outlawed in Malaysia

[sophion]

Dear mod. Islam is both politics & religion, but please dont move it into lafi!!!


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia—More than 200 Muslim Shiites—including Iranians, Indonesians and Pakistanis—were detained in one of the biggest swoops on outlawed Muslim sects in Malaysia and may be charged with breaching Islamic laws, an official said Monday.

Government authorities in Muslim-majority Malaysia consider only the Sunni denomination to be legal. Sunni Islam is the world's largest branch of the religion, followed by Shia Islam.

Islamic officials raided a shop house in the Gombak district in central Selangor ...

Anung comment ng ating resident muslims dito? You consider Shiites as religious deviants?

[ballpark]

Sunni lang ang kailangan manaig! Parang bully yan sila mas malaki dapat sila ang masunod!

[kos_mos]

Dear mod. Islam is both politics & religion, but please dont move it into lafi!!!


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia—More than 200 Muslim Shiites—including Iranians, Indonesians and Pakistanis—were detained in one of the biggest swoops on outlawed Muslim sects in Malaysia and may be charged with breaching Islamic laws, an official said Monday.

Government authorities in Muslim-majority Malaysia consider only the Sunni denomination to be legal. Sunni Islam is the world's largest branch of the religion, followed by Shia Islam.

Islamic officials raided a shop house in the Gombak district in central Selangor ...

Anung comment ng ating resident muslims dito? You consider Shiites as religious deviants?

I don't think Shiite should be arrested or persecuted for being Shiite, unless for other charges.

But then again, Malaysia has its own sovereignty, and I'm not one to comment on that.

But perhaps sophion, you should've also quoted "He said the Shia doctrine is a threat to national security because it permits the killing of Muslims from other sects who are regarded as infidels." in order to be a bit objective.

I did hear that Shiite have this ruling that permits them to kill Sunnis, though when asked about it, they would deny it, thus "Taqiyah".

[ballpark]

Parehas lang yan ..Sunni are also permitted to kill Shiites! Tama lang yan magpatayan kayo ..the lesser the muslims the better for the world!

[sophion]

But perhaps sophion, you should've also quoted "He said the Shia doctrine is a threat to national security because it permits the killing of Muslims from other sects who are regarded as infidels." in order to be a bit objective.

I did hear that Shiite have this ruling that permits them to kill Sunnis, though when asked about it, they would deny it, thus "Taqiyah".

thats reaaaaally just an excuse. you know why? because there are shiite muslims everywhere, even here in the west. there are no reports of such "killings" between a shiite and a sunni.

and that excuse/stereotype can be used against all muslims here in the west too, you know.

and your reaction is the problem with muslims. you cant complain about injustices done by fellow muslims, just because its the "law" in their country. but the outcry from muslims are deafening when the "law" in infidel countries tickles muslims even the slightest.

[kos_mos]

Parehas lang yan ..Sunni are also permitted to kill Shiites! Tama lang yan magpatayan kayo ..the lesser the muslims the better for the world!

Yeah yeah, says you.

[kos_mos]

thats reaaaaally just an excuse. you know why? because there are shiite muslims everywhere, even here in the west. there are no reports of such "killings" between a shiite and a sunni.

and that excuse/stereotype can be used against all muslims here in the west too, you know.

and your reaction is the problem with muslims. you cant complain about injustices done by fellow muslims, just because its the "law" in their country. but the outcry from muslims are deafening when the "law" in infidel countries tickles muslims even the slightest.

Like I said, I personally don't think it is right.

But if Malaysia did it, then it is their own laws, they have their own reasons. I'm neither defending nor justifying their acts.

[ballpark]

No! It was said by BBC, CNN, Al-Jazeera, Fox News etc!

You can search the country of Iran, Saudi, Afghanistan and Iraq for your sectarian killings! Hahahahahahahaha!

Remember the the 2005 terrorism of Sunnis against Shiites in Iraq!

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2005...fx2199216.html
Al-Qaeda linked group claims mortar attack in Iraq that led to stampede

[sophion]

Like I said, I personally don't think it is right.

But if Malaysia did it, then it is their own laws, they have their own reasons. I'm neither defending nor justifying their acts.

as the old saying goes: "the greatest evil is when good people do nothing".

the report is clear that those shiites were arrested for what they believe, not for what they have done.

"outlawed Muslim sects"

muslims should really learn to complain against their own. to denounce the evil amongst them.

[ballpark]

hipocrisy na ito ..to the highest level

- Ruffa mae Quinto!

Hahahahahahaha!

[retxed]

sinabi ko to somewhere in RoT, walang naniwala! anyone wants to know more about Shia Muslims? there are some more Islam sects and one of them is the Quranists. bleh....

[face_down]

[razzer_rising]

OMG within Islam pala meron ding sort of religious intolerance. so parang Philippines banning INC, protestant, born again etc and only Catholics will prevail. grabe Malaysia is fast becoming a developed country pero her thinking is so backward with regards sa religion in my opinion. yes Malaysia is a sovereign state just like Saudi and they can make their own laws. pero not because they can make their own laws, it doesnt mean their laws are perfect na or even universally acceptable. Just like yung South American tribes of ancient times, law na dun yung magkaroon ng Human sacrifice. its their law but its wrong. Now 2010 na, still merong mga laws na really awful and against human liberty as exemplified by Malaysia and Saudi.

[kenjironin]

I don't think Shiite should be arrested or persecuted for being Shiite, unless for other charges.

But then again, Malaysia has its own sovereignty, and I'm not one to comment on that.

But perhaps sophion, you should've also quoted "He said the Shia doctrine is a threat to national security because it permits the killing of Muslims from other sects who are regarded as infidels." in order to be a bit objective.

I did hear that Shiite have this ruling that permits them to kill Sunnis, though when asked about it, they would deny it, thus "Taqiyah".

yes, it's wrong to kill muslims but not the kuffars (infidels/unbelievers of muhamad).

[kos_mos]

^^
Uh.. if you hadn't noticed, the infidels in the article refers to us, Sunni Muslims.

And no one said anything about killing Muslims or non-Muslims as being right.

[kenjironin]

^^ verses that talks about killing the kufars.

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah" From the historical context we know that the "persecution" spoken of here was simply the refusal by the Meccans to allow Muhammad to enter their city and perform the Haj. Other Muslims were able to travel there, just not as an armed group, since Muhammad declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah." According to Ibn Ishaq (324), Muhammad justified the violence further by explaining that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."



Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."



Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam. Prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religions Five Pillars.



Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."



Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The "striving" spoken of here is Jihad.



Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in just the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.


Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"



Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.



Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).


Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.



Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."


Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."



Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."



Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story, which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source, tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son.



Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"



Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.



Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.



Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similtudes. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."



Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you," This very important verse asserts that the Religion of Peace is not to grant peace to the broader society until Islamic rule has been established.



Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted?



Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status.



Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."



Quran (61:10-12) - "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity." This verse was given in battle. It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.



Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.


From the Hadith:



Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."



Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.



Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'



Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)



Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious



Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah



Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah



Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."



Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"



Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihid died the death of a hypocrite.'"



Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."



Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.



Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.



Ibn Ishaq: 327 - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”



Ibn Ishaq: 990 - Lest anyone think that cutting off someone's head while screaming 'Allah Akbar!' is a modern custom, here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who seems to approve.



Ibn Ishaq: 992 - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid.


Additional Notes:

Other than the fact that Muslims haven't killed every non-Muslim under their domain, there is very little else that they can point to as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion. Few verses in the Quran can be construed to fit the contemporary virtues of religious tolerance and universal brotherhood. Those that do are earlier "Meccan" verses that are obviously abrogated by later ones. Small wonder that Muslim apologists spend a lot of time speaking of the "risks" of trying to interpret the Quran without their "assistance."



Far from being mere history or theological construct, the violent verses of the Quran have played a key role in actual massacre and genocide. This includes the brutal slaughter of tens of millions of Hindus for five centuries beginning around 1000 AD with Mahmud of Ghazni's bloody conquest, including the massacre of those who defending their temples from destruction. Buddhism was very nearly wiped off the Indian subcontinent. Judaism and Christianity met the same fate (albeit more slowly) in areas conquered by Muslim armies, including the Middle East, North Africa and parts of Europe, including today's Turkey. Zoroastrianism, the ancient religion of a proud Persian people is despised by Muslims and barely survives in modern Iran.


So ingrained is violence in the religion that Islam has never really stopped being at war, either with other religions or with itself.


Muhammad was a military leader, laying siege to towns, massacring the men, raping their women, enslaving their children, and taking what was once the property of others for his own. On several occasions he rejected offers of surrender from the besieged inhabitants and killed those whom he could take prisoner. He inspired his followers to battle even when they did not feel it was right to fight, promising them slaves and booty if they did and threatening them with Hell if they did not. Muhammad allowed his men to rape traumatized women captured in battle.



It is important to emphasize that Muslim armies waged aggressive campaigns, and it was the companions of Muhammad who made the most dramatic military gains in the decades following his death. The principle set in motion early on was that the civilian population of a town was to be destroyed (ie. men executed, women and children taken as slaves) if they defended themselves. Although modern Muslim apologists often claim that Islam only attacked in self-defense, this is not only an oxymoron, but it is flatly contradicted by the accounts of Muslim historians and others going back to the time of Muhammad.



Consider the example of the Qurayza Jews, who were completely wiped out only five years after Muhammad arrived in Medina. Their leader opted to stay neutral when their town was besieged by a Meccan army, sent to take revenge for Muhammad's deadly caravan raids. The tribe killed no one from either side and even surrendered peacefully to Muhammad after the Meccans had been turned back. Yet the prophet of Islam had every male member of the Qurayza beheaded, and every woman and child enslaved, even raping one of the captives himself (what Muslim apologists call same day "marriage").



Muhammad's failure to leave a clear line of succession resulted in perpetual internal war following his death. Those who knew him best first fought to keep remote tribes from leaving Islam and reverting to their preferred religion (the Ridda or 'Apostasy wars'). Then within the closer community, early Meccan converts battled later ones. Hostility developed between those immigrants who had traveled with Muhammad to Mecca and the Ansar at Medina who had helped them settle in. Finally there was a violent struggle within Muhammad's own family between his favorite wife and favorite daughter - a jagged schism that has left Shias and Sunnis at each others' throats to this day.



The strangest and most untrue thing that can be said about Islam is that it is a Religion of Peace. If every standard by which the West is judged and condemned (slavery, imperialism, intolerance, women's rights, sexuality, warfare...) were applied equally to Islam, the verdict would be absolutely devastating. Islam never gives up what it conquers, be it religion, culture, language or life. Neither does it make apologies or any real effort at moral progress. It is the least open to dialogue and the most self-absorbed. It is convinced of its own perfection, yet brutally shuns self-examination and represses criticism.



This is what makes the verses of violence so dangerous. They are given the weight of divine command. While Muslim terrorists take them as literally as anything else in the Quran, and understand that Islam is incomplete without Jihad, moderates offer little to contradict them - outside of opinion. Indeed, what do they have? Speaking of peace and love may win over the ignorant, but when every twelfth verse of Islam's holiest book either speaks to Allah's hatred for non-Muslims or calls for their death, forced conversion, or subjugation, it's little wonder that sympathy for terrorism runs as deeply as it does in the broader community - even if most Muslims personally prefer not to interpret their religion in this way.

In fact, many Muslims are simply unaware of the Quran's near absence of verses that preach universal non-violence. This is because their understanding of Islam comes from what they are taught by others. In the West, it is typical for Muslims to come to believe that their religion must be like Christianity - preaching the New Testament virtues of peace, love, and tolerance - because Muslims are taught that Islam is supposed to be superior in every way. They are somewhat surprised and embarrassed to learn that the evidence of the Quran and the bloody history of Islam are very much in contradiction to this.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Qu...3-violence.htm

[retxed]

may gusto ka malaman about Shia?

[kos_mos]

@ kenjironin

Suppose I knew of those verses in the Qur'an that orders me to kill non-Muslims, should I follow such an order?

No. Because I'm not some E.D.-Yote who love to quote out of context just to prove their twisted points, such as a certain person out here.

Maa ikka.. There's no point in this.

[stepehenyan@12]

mahirap ma determine kung sino shiite at sino sunni. pero pansin ko matindi bangayan ng dalawang grupo lalo na sa twelve imams mapa you tube, islamic forum.

me napanood ako sa cnn na nagkaroon ng violence sa iran nung ashura nag claim ang mga sunnis na responsable sa pag atake.

[retxed]

mahirap ma determine kung sino shiite at sino sunni. pero pansin ko matindi bangayan ng dalawang grupo lalo na sa twelve imams mapa you tube, islamic forum.

me napanood ako sa cnn na nagkaroon ng violence sa iran nung ashura nag claim ang mga sunnis na responsable sa pag atake.

the 12th imam ang babalik and not Isau! maloum? mohammad al-himidi if I'm not mistaken...Ali is God - Allah, mafi malak! Shia - ask me. please Muslim bros, refute me! wag yong mga reverts, walang alam yon! shahada, basic hindi alam? astagfurillah! es hada? any Muslim takers? yalla!