Ateneans: snobbish?

[talkplaylove]

Ateneans are generally snobbish. As early as prep, students are made to believe that they are in the best school in the country, therefore they have to do their best to get good grades. Some grade school outings bring the young ateneans to different depressed areas where they soon realize how lucky and superior their lives are compared to a large portion of their countrymen. Some of these ateneans grow with a superiority complex and go the "snobbish" route. Some don't.

(im talking about ateneans who actually spent their formative years in ateneo grade school and high school, not the ones who just transferred to ateneo in college)

I've met a lot of true blue Ateneans and they aren't anywhere near your description. A lot of those guys personalities are different depending on their high school sections, but I haven't met a TB Atenean that fits the snobbiness that you say is "general". Truth be told, mas snobby pa nga yung mga galing International School and other expensive exclusive schools then go to Ateneo college.

[bmd]

If nothing else, medyo paternalistic pa nga ang approach ng ADMU. Mala-GK. Derivative of the beneficent hacendero ethos kaya-- yun bang ingrained inner sense of responsibility? Parang Jose Rizal vs Bonifacio (who wasn't quite so poor or uneducated as many believe). Pwera lang yung mga sumang-ayon sa mga prinsipiyo ng liberation theology at napasabak na sa bundok.

Ayan eh-- pilosopo. Baka naman yung "snobbish" na sinasabi ay intellectual arrogance. If that's the case, saksakan nga ng dami ang mga snobbish na Atenista. Mostly finessed nga lang.

[officeboy24]

hindi ko masasabi na snobbish ang mga ateneans kasi wala ako kilala na tga ateneo. Pero iniimagine ko if ever may makasalubong ako na tga ateneo, feeling ko iisipin nila kung magkano allowance ko or if my bank accounts ako or kung meron man makipagusap sakin na tga ateneo feeling ko unang tanung nila sakin if kung anu business ng parents ko, marami ba kami kotse yung mga usapang filthy rich hehehe

[viviblack]

Siguro sobrang unfortunate ko lang, but alas, most TB Ateneans na I had as blockmates, sobrang snob. Siguro dala na rin ng social situations starting freshman year. Masyadong cliquish yung iba, nag-base sa highschool na you graduated from, so 1st year pa lang, wala ng "block love" kagad. No offense meant to anyone, pero maraming snob talaga sa JGSOM. At least, the worst people I ever encountered sa school, hindi naman TB Ateneans...

[christian5327]

well, 75% of people i know who belong to the rich class are really snob. this is affirmed by the observations of other people too, particularly the masses... anyways, like what i've said, 1 year ako sa katipunan pero ni minsan, di ako nakakuhang friend from ateneo. at di rin ako nakahanap ng kausap na taga-ateneo. whereas nung andun ako sa sampaloc, it didnt take me long para makakuha ng friends from ust and feu. again, this is based on observations.

As a Filipino Chinese who is an American, I can certainly attest to this mentality of the well to do in the Philippines. These would be the middle and upper middle class there. I detest this snobbery because relatively speaking these people are not well to do by American standards. In America, the so called snobs are the ones from a lower class background who want to ape their social superiors in manners, clothing, etc. For the most part, people are humble because at any time one can lose everything here in an instant. The hardest working people here in America tend to be the Middle and Upper Middle Class.

It is interesting to note how this snobbery dynamic changes whenever these Filipinos come into contact with an American. All of a sudden they do not appear to be so confident, even attempting to deflect queries concerning their lives and lifestyles. I enjoy being low key, then blasting these snobs for what they are as snobs. It is wonderful to see how helpless they become under intense scrutiny. In the end, these snobs move on to another person and conversation at a gathering, knowing that they cannot win.

[bmd]

Oh my. Silliness is not true snobbery, although both are clearly international in scope.

Am always entertained when I drop by this forum. Some of the posts remind me of "game plan" discussions.

Is there an Atenean here who isn't aware that his alma mater is of little consequence overseas? Should we cower in a roomful of Wharton School alumni, or should we make adaptive moves to level the playing field instead? There will always be people who have better opportunities, but what matters is how you deal with that fact.

[christian5327]

Oh my. Silliness is not true snobbery, although both are clearly international in scope.

Am always entertained when I drop by this forum. Some of the posts remind me of "game plan" discussions.

Is there an Atenean here who isn't aware that his alma mater is of little consequence overseas? Should we cower in a roomful of Wharton School alumni, or should we make adaptive moves to level the playing field instead? There will always be people who have better opportunities, but what matters is how you deal with that fact.

Even my own undergraduate institution, the University of Washington, makes Ateneo look like a good one room school house in Africa. Ateneans that actually are fortunate enough to attend this world class university become ashamed and are awed by the faculty, caliber of students and facilities. America is infinitely more competitive than the Philippines. Indeed, the UW is not even MIT, Harvard or any of the other elite universities. Still, the UW has a 600 acre campus, 35,000+ students and a billion dollar budget which is bigger than all of the budgets of the major universities in the Philippines combined. The problem with Filipinos is that they don't want to compete. They like things that are easy for them. I make this observation as an American of Filipino and Chinese descent. My own father was part of the elite as a UP Law graduate class of 1966(13th in his class) in the Philippines; there, he was a big fish in a small pond. Here, he was a tadpole in an ocean. He did get his JD from the UW but he was an average lawyer here. People here do not fear competition from Filipinos; they do fear competition from other Asian groups such as Koreans, Chinese, Indians and Vietnamese who are all very entrepreneurial in America.

[christian5327]

I've met a lot of true blue Ateneans and they aren't anywhere near your description. A lot of those guys personalities are different depending on their high school sections, but I haven't met a TB Atenean that fits the snobbiness that you say is "general". Truth be told, mas snobby pa nga yung mga galing International School and other expensive exclusive schools then go to Ateneo college.

Ateneo de Manila by international standards would be a very good high school.

[officeboy24]

Dito lang naman sa Pilipinas may crab mentality. Kasi nag college ako sa John Hopkins University at kumuha ako ng B.S. Biology mga two years ako doon pero hindi ko naranasan na kutyain ng ibang college students form other great universities such as MIT, Harvard etc. dahil para sa kanila pantay pantay lang ang mga universities, kahit hindi ganun ka sikat yung university na pinapasukan nila, mataaspa rin tingin nila sa mga college students and tingin samin ay intellectuals once nakatapak ka sa college/university. Dahil sa financial crisis, bumalik ako dito sa pilipnas noong third year college ako at nagaral ako sa FEU, doon ko na experience yung mga college students na form UST,UP,Ateneo and DLSU na kinukutya yung mga college/university sa University belt. Naawa ako sa kanila kasi yung ugali nila pang junior high school malayong malayo sa ugali ng mga college students sa amerika na matured ang pagiisip.

[christian5327]

Dito lang naman sa Pilipinas may crab mentality. Kasi nag college ako sa John Hopkins University at kumuha ako ng B.S. Biology mga two years ako doon pero hindi ko naranasan na kutyain ng ibang college students form other great universities such as MIT, Harvard etc. dahil para sa kanila pantay pantay lang ang mga universities, kahit hindi ganun ka sikat yung university na pinapasukan nila, mataaspa rin tingin nila sa mga college students and tingin samin ay intellectuals once nakatapak ka sa college/university. Dahil sa financial crisis, bumalik ako dito sa pilipnas noong third year college ako at nagaral ako sa FEU, doon ko na experience yung mga college students na form UST,UP,Ateneo and DLSU na kinukutya yung mga college/university sa University belt. Naawa ako sa kanila kasi yung ugali nila pang junior high school malayong malayo sa ugali ng mga college students sa amerika na matured ang pagiisip.

The average research university in the United States toughens a student, prepares them to survive academically in any part of the world. The quality of students even at Arizona State University or the University of Arkansas compels a student to produce thoughts of their own that they can substantiate in research. These graduates even at the BA or BS level can become instructors at many of the universities and colleges in the Philippines. In the American system, I would be considered barely an above average student. While I write this post, I write it with stream of consciousness fluidity. Just imagine, if I am simply an average student that is a product of a major research university in the United States, how much the very best students in the Philippines would have to struggle in order to keep their heads above water. There are scholar students in the Philippines that go on to major institutions in the United States but very rarely do they graduate with honors when they undertake graduate or undergraduate studies here. There are at most two or three faculty members from both Ateneo and UP that received their PhD's from MIT and the University of Chicago, two schools that are notorious for their crushing workloads.

[bmd]

For the sake of younger readers, let me just say that small is not necessarily inferior. If there are major differences in terms of experience and/or perception of the value of schools, then perhaps the individual student's background is the variable that truly matters.

As to big and small fry in large or tiny ponds--- well, it depends on Purpose. There are those of us who feel that our small pond maximizes the benefit & gratification factor.

In my family of ADMU & UP alums, my generation (3rd in a line of Ateneans, from tiny interno-system origins to small Uni), there was this drive to test oneself in the larger academic world... then come home afterwards. Even as child, there were so many #1's, Fulbrights, & Ivy League alums at Christmas time that it didn't seem beyond the realm of possibilities (as is presented here). As for staying on overseas-- well, it just wasn't our learned orientation (at least for me). Pehaps we felt that we had "a place" back home? I know only of one cousin who'd gone back to the US. His Caltech PhD (highest honors) couldn't catch the appropriate grants in Manila. Yes, he's a big fry over there by any criteria, having been inducted into his world's Heaven.

No one knocks small local schools at Christmas time...are you kidding? My aunts were noted educators and we'd all had early years at their knee. Enough of my generation had gone on to UP as university scholars at ridiculous ages to make it seem almost normal (a note to the next generation!) Beyond any doubt, their small schools plus their attiudes had major roles in their futures.

[christian5327]

For the sake of younger readers, let me just say that small is not necessarily inferior. If there are major differences in terms of experience and/or perception of the value of schools, then perhaps the individual student's background is the variable that truly matters.

As to big and small fry in large or tiny ponds--- well, it depends on Purpose. There are those of us who feel that our small pond maximizes the benefit & gratification factor.

In my family of ADMU & UP alums, my generation (3rd in a line of Ateneans, from tiny interno-system origins to small Uni), there was this drive to test oneself in the larger academic world... then come home afterwards. Even as child, there were so many #1's, Fulbrights, & Ivy League alums at Christmas time that it didn't seem beyond the realm of possibilities (as is presented here). As for staying on overseas-- well, it just wasn't our learned orientation (at least for me). Pehaps we felt that we had "a place" back home? I know only of one cousin who'd gone back to the US. His Caltech PhD (highest honors) couldn't catch the appropriate grants in Manila. Yes, he's a big fry over there by any criteria, having been inducted into his world's Heaven.

No one knocks small local schools at Christmas time...are you kidding? My aunts were noted educators and we'd all had early years at their knee. Enough of my generation had gone on to UP as university scholars at ridiculous ages to make it seem almost normal (a note to the next generation!) Beyond any doubt, their small schools plus their attiudes had major roles in their futures.

The right attitude goes a long way. Filipinos in America are just like other immigrant groups. Technically, the ones historically that have exhibited the desire to return home would be the Chinese, especially in the 19th century.

A distinction must be made between educational achievement and academic achievement. A fulbright scholarship, even a Rhodes Fellowship, are awarded to students. Educational acheivement is but the first step in academic achievement. Simply earning a PhD at a demanding program here or acquiring different awards as a student does not equate with high academic achievement. Academic achievement at the highest levels include acknowledgement for research undertaken at institutions.

Also, simply earning a coveted position as a full professor at a high profile institution such as MIT, Cal Tech, Princeton, Yale, Harvard, etc. is not adequate. Academics are defined by their research, their original contributions to their field.

Many people are conditioned to equate educational achievement with impressive sounding credentials. However, a person does not even register on the radar until they produce research, some of which must be noteworthy in their field in order to truly achieve academically, if that is their motive in the first place. In the United States, there are academics that care about their field so much that they do not care about any trappings. They only care about broadening their field potentially with their own research.

So, in terms of research, poor and small equates with inferior. As an example, the University of Washington has a $2.2 billion endowment along with $1 billion per year granted to it by the Federal Government. Of course, one can do brilliant, world changing research on a smaller budget in certain fields. However, big resources attract the best talent worldwide. This is the key difference between America and the rest of the world. America ATTRACTS the best and the brightest in the WORLD, not simply a national university attracting the best and brightest in a given country. Indeed, there is a so called brain drain in the Philippines. The ones that return to the Philippines are generally the ones that could not compete with the very best. This might sound harsh but if Filipinos are like every other immigrant group then everyone else has a natural tendency to return to their homelands. However, Indians and Koreans here are not exactly returning to their places of origin in droves. From a statistical standpoint which is easy to confirm, there are fewer Filipino academics and researchers at universities here than Chinese, Indians, even Koreans. Also, many of these Filipino academics that do succeed turn out to be of partial, full Chinese descent. Amy Chua at Yale Law School is an example, though she is not a true academic because she never undertook a PhD program. Consequently, her research is limited to short law articles or one, two books that are not properly academic; these books tend to be geared to the general public. There are no cites for example for her work World on Fire. There is a Filipino academic at the University of Washington that is either an assitant or associate professor. He is either in the history or sociology department.

As for learning at the Undergraduate level, poor and small is irrelevant because anyone can have good instructors and facilities with a small budget. However, these facilities will not attract the best and brightest in the world. If so, then it means that the student body is less competitive with each other. A college that draws the top 1% hailing from the rest of the world is a much more demanding experience than one that attracts students from the top 1% in its own country. Without resources, a college is not able to draw a world audience to its campus.

Just imagine if the Philippines as a country was completely open to foreign competition. There is a reason why the system will not allow foreigners into business unless it is a joint venture with a Filipino entity. This is the sign of the system being less competitive overall. The United States has no such restrictions. Any corporation can come to its shores to compete. Any purpose in a big or small pond must take competition into consideration. Filipinos do themselves a disservice when they do not fully appreciate the globally competitive nature of 21st century reality. Besides, knowing that you achieved something because you were the best of the best instead of the very best in an environment lacking resources and the chance to attract the very best is the most satisfying feeling one can have in their consciousness. Being the best in an environment where potentially talented, brilliant individuals that have no access to learning because they have a household income below $5 per day is of little consolation.

[AccIdPEx]

Ang haba naman ng palitan ng mga kuru-kuro.

Btw, hello sa mga pretty ladies dito.

[naya88]

Itong Atenean na ito, anong tawag nio rito? (from Transferring to the Ateneo thread):

Forum member: Mahirap ba ang mag transfer sa Ateneo Manila? Kasi mag aaral muna ako sa FEU BSBA Legal Management tapos mag tratransfer ako jan.

Taga-Ateneo: I don't really know anyone who transferred from FEU......
A lot of transferees are from the "top 4."
I suggest you just stay there if you know that you wont be able to keep up with the standards of Ateneo .

Buti na lang merong sumagot na obviously a kind Atenean: Based on experience, most of the transferees are from either DLSU and UP.

I don't know if that really says anything. If you're really determined to pass the ACET and transfer, anything is possible.

[junjee]

hi guys (ate and kuya),
we are undergrad students from C-L-A conducting a survey on relational IQ. Please participate You'll just need to answer 15 questions. Purely academical purposes lang po.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hPSFE6MQ#gid=0

thanks

[ermengarde]

Hi, graduate ako ng FEU at nagmamasteral ako sa UST. Nung unang tapak ko sa UST talagang kinakabahan ako at nagaalala ako sa sasabihin ng Admissions kapag nalaman nila nag graduate ako sa ibang university at gusto mag MA sa UST. Ayun na nga, medyo naangasan ako sa tanung ng secretary sa Admission, tinatanung kung naglementary, high school or college man lang ba ako sa UST at inuusisa ako kung bakit doon ko gusto mag aral ng MA at nakataas pa kilay niya habang nakatingin sa transcript ko.

Buti na lang mabait yung Dean at tinanung lang kung ano work ko, paano ko mapagsasabay work sa pagaaral at ayun pinayagan na ako mag enroll.

wala lang, share lang...

[AccIdPEx]

Ating ibalik ang diskusyonan.

[joe909]

this is an interesting thread haha! although i think one of the posters above is a poseur because he spelled it the school john hopkins when it's actually johnS hopkins :l =)) I think I haven't heard of someone going to such a prestigious school in recent years

[mcsteamy17]

Anu?... Ateneans snobbish?



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