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  1. #1
    Member zimatar33's Avatar
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    Political Dynasty in the Philippines

    Political Dynasty in the Philippines

    Arroyo and son eye Congress seats in 2010
    Family dynasties bind politics in Philippines
    Clans still rule in 14th House but fewer in ranks
    Political Dynasties
    The Seven Ms of Dynasty Building

    The 1987 Constitution of the Republic of the Philippines:
    Article 2 - Declaration of Principles and State Policies, Section 26:

    The State shall guarantee equal access to opportunities for public service,
    and prohibit political dynasties as may be defined by law
    prohibit = disallow = forbid

    The problem is, the framers of the 1987 Philippine Constitution
    failed to define the law to implement the prohibition of political dynasty.
    They left-out the construction of the enabling law on how to implement the prohibition of political dynasty.
    It means they entrusted the task of making the law about political dynasty in the Congress.
    Philippine Congress passing a law prohibiting political dynasty?
    You must be dreaming.
    You should not expect the 'wise men' of the congress to shoot their own foot and hoofs.

    For over 20 years now already, the Philippine Congress has been sitting in their hands
    continually ignoring to make a law accompanying the article in the Constitution to prohibit Political dynasty in the Philippines. They are busy passing laws in renaming streets.
    Or are they just incapable on defining what is political dynasty actually means?

    Political clans / families has been walking all over the Philippine Senate, congress, local and national public offices. Grandparents, Father, Mother and siblings are taking turns on different seats of power all over the archipelago.

    Why do people vote them? Familiarity? Family name is all over the nearby places?
    Family name of political clans are all over the place.
    Waiting shades are named after their family names, basketball courts, schools, etc. etc. etc.
    Naming government projects (that was constructed using tax payer's money) after a politician is wrong.

    Why do people vote them? Sometimes there are no other choice.
    In the upcoming Philippine Presidential election 2010: we have no choice.

    • Noynoy Aquino belongs to the political family of the Aquino clan in Tarlac
    • Chiz Escudero belongs to the political family of the Escudero clan in Sorsogon
    • Manny Villar belongs to the political family of the Villar clan in Las Pinas
    • Joseph Estrada belongs to the political family of the Villar clan in San Juan
    • Gilbert Teodoro belongs to the political family of the Cojuangco\Teodoro clan in Tarlac


    ergo: They all belong/connected to families that are politically active.
    Their family members take turns on official political positions in the government.
    Why do people vote them? Sometimes there are no other choice.

    Can we now expect a law to be passed prohibiting political dynasty
    in accordance to our Philippine constitution?

    The 1987 Constitution of the Republic of the Philippines:
    Article 2 - Declaration of Principles and State Policies, Section 26:

    The State shall guarantee equal access to opportunities for public service,
    and prohibit political dynasties as may be defined by law
    prohibit = disallow = forbid

    Being senators and congressmen, they are representatives of the the
    state/congress that should be passing laws under our Philippines Constitution.
    Obviously, our 'honorable' lawmen have failed on their job defining the prohibition of political dynasty.
    Or, is the prohibition of the political dynasty is just a decoration on our constitution?
    We cannot even hear our lawmakers discussing political dynasty included on the list of their agendas.

    Just like Jueteng (illegal numbers game),
    Political dynasty is wrong but is very-well accepted by the Philippine society.

    Is political dynasty wrong?
    Yes. It is prohibited on the Philippine Constitution.
    Is political dynasty beneficial to Philippines?
    Philippines is literally/figuratively soaked in mud.
    It only depends on how deep you are stucked.
    For decades, political clans have been roaming and ruling public offices.
    What do we get from the past decades of family superiority over their constituents and dominions?

    What do we get? mud.

    *note: as every rule there are still exemptions.
    *example: the Fernando clan in Marikina has been doing a great job
    but still: this should not justify in violating the prevailing statement of our supreme law of the land

    The 1987 Constitution of the Republic of the Philippines:
    Article 2 - Declaration of Principles and State Policies, Section 26:

    The State shall guarantee equal access to opportunities for public service,
    and prohibit political dynasties as may be defined by law
    prohibit = disallow = forbid

    We have no choice but to accept political dynasty even if it is prohibited by the constitution.
    It is like a relief food packed inside a styro foam with the label of the name of politician.
    If you're a flood victim, to avoid starving to death in the middle of a cold storm and flood.
    You have no choice but to eat your pride and principle and get the donated food by the politician.

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SqvjaQAgoPQ/St_yi7pvmgI/AAAAAAAAAIw/dtq6DD70Vv0/s1600/PDP1.jpg
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SqvjaQAgoPQ/St_yp91qYCI/AAAAAAAAAI4/Hr4V_1aQgLA/s1600/PDP2.jpg
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SqvjaQAgoPQ/St_yu9QW3II/AAAAAAAAAJA/mXS-63goECM/s1600/PDP3.jpg
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SqvjaQAgoPQ/St_y0lfrHdI/AAAAAAAAAJI/n0Sqq6zhzNU/s1600/PDP4.jpg
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SqvjaQAgoPQ/St_y44WKStI/AAAAAAAAAJQ/u0dgVdHHT8k/s1600/PDP5.jpg
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SqvjaQAgoPQ/St_y9eQlruI/AAAAAAAAAJY/mu25N9x8Tnk/s1600/PDP6.jpg

    The 1987 Constitution of the Republic of the Philippines:
    Article 2 - Declaration of Principles and State Policies, Section 26:

    The State shall guarantee equal access to opportunities for public service,
    and prohibit political dynasties as may be defined by law
    prohibit = disallow = forbid

    What do you think about political dynasty? Is it ok?
    Is it Legitimate?
    Is it correct?
    An accepted wrong act?

    http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6969/philippinepoliticsrelig.jpg
    www.philippinepoliticsreligion.blogspot.com

  2. #2
    Your Personal Jesus F-A Soldier's Avatar
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    The question is: don't the people vote these people? so in the end the stupidity lies in the people.

    dude what's with the dynasty roll today?

  3. #3
    I think someone in Congress should institute term limits across the board, say for politicians to only get re-elected twice in office across all levels of government and after that they can't run for office anymore irregardless of what position they run, that way, governance won't become a career..

    But of course, FAT CHANCE! I hardly see any idealist in Congress nowadays..

    Government and State always leads to shit such as this, we should try anarchism instead, that way, we won't have to worry about things such as these anymore..

  4. #4
    One indirect way of discouraging political dynasty is to require all politicians and their relative upto the 5th civil degree to make their financial statements and Income Tax Returns available to the public. I'm sure most of their relatives will dissuade them from seeking elective positions.

  5. #5
    ^ But aren't the financial statements of politicians already available to the public?

    The only way to really stop Political Dynasties is for Congress to institute term limits all across all levels in government. We could implement laws that says all individuals can only run twice for office and after that they cannot participate in governance anymore.

    That way, political dynasties will be a thing of the past and government will be filled by those people who are really willing to serve.

  6. #6
    Super Sawsaw LITHIUM478's Avatar
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    The 1987 Constitution of the Republic of the Philippines:
    Article 2 - Declaration of Principles and State Policies, Section 26:
    The State shall guarantee equal access to opportunities for public service, and prohibit political dynasties as may be defined by law.

    ---
    You can declare your principles and policies as much as you want, but with the absence of enabling law, it will remain as it is.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by F-A Soldier View Post
    The question is: don't the people vote these people? so in the end the stupidity lies in the people.

    dude what's with the dynasty roll today?
    That is debatable. Politicians know how to twirl the masses and cheat. Impoverishing the people 3-4 months before an election and then dangle 500 Php per vote and you'll get them OR cheat in the elections.

    As for voters, those who are already intelligent, finished college etc sometimes get duped by political promises. Compare them to the masses who have yet to finish highschool but is of age to vote and only enticed to vote because of other factors instead of patriotism...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by LITHIUM478 View Post
    The 1987 Constitution of the Republic of the Philippines:
    Article 2 - Declaration of Principles and State Policies, Section 26:
    The State shall guarantee equal access to opportunities for public service, and prohibit political dynasties as may be defined by law.

    ---
    You can declare your principles and policies as much as you want, but with the absence of enabling law, it will remain as it is.
    That's why Congress needs to implement laws that in effect sets term limits for all politicians. The problem in the Philippines unfortunately is that there is no law that states how this is to be done so the interpretation is vague. The proposal of term limits effectively puts all vague interpretations to rest as there is clearly a clear-cut number of times an individual can be appointed in office.

    We need term limits to effectively end political dynasties in the country and allow others to serve the public as well, that is if you people are up to it..

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  10. #9
    Super Sawsaw LITHIUM478's Avatar
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    We have another issue here... we do not have a definition for 'political dynasty'.

    We know what 'prohibit' means (TS says it means disallow = forbid), but we do not know what a 'political dynasty' is.

    So how can we prohibit something that we do not know (no definition).

  11. #10
    Super Sawsaw LITHIUM478's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imanhorn View Post
    That is debatable. Politicians know how to twirl the masses and cheat. Impoverishing the people 3-4 months before an election and then dangle 500 Php per vote and you'll get them OR cheat in the elections.

    As for voters, those who are already intelligent, finished college etc sometimes get duped by political promises. Compare them to the masses who have yet to finish highschool but is of age to vote and only enticed to vote because of other factors instead of patriotism...
    Just for clarification: grab any dictionary and search for the word "politician"...

    For easy reference, quoted below is one of the dictionaries that defines what a politician is:

    source: http://ardictionary.com/Politician/8551
    Politician 1
    Definition: One versed or experienced in the science of government; one devoted to politics; a statesman.

    Politician 2
    Definition: One primarily devoted to his own advancement in public office, or to the success of a political party; used in a depreciatory sense; one addicted or attached to politics as managed by parties (see Politics, a schemer; an intriguer; as, a mere politician.

    Politician 3
    Definition: Cunning; using artifice; politic; artful.

    politician 4
    Definition: a person active in party politics

    politician 5
    Definition: a leader engaged in civil administration

    politician 6
    Definition: a schemer who tries to gain advantage in an organization in sly or underhanded ways
    My point is, let us not forget... politicians are not exclusive to those holding elective positions. Politicians (and dynasties) may also refer to other public office to which the state "shall guarantee equal access to opportunities for public service".

  12. #11
    kissed by a rose
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    Quote Originally Posted by LITHIUM478 View Post
    The 1987 Constitution of the Republic of the Philippines:
    Article 2 - Declaration of Principles and State Policies, Section 26:
    The State shall guarantee equal access to opportunities for public service, and prohibit political dynasties as may be defined by law.

    ---
    You can declare your principles and policies as much as you want, but with the absence of enabling law, it will remain as it is.
    I was going to say this. But you already have. Ganyan talaga wa;ang congressman o senador susuporta sa batas na yan dahil lahat lahat naman halos sila ay members ng political clan

  13. #12
    Your Personal Jesus F-A Soldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imanhorn View Post
    That is debatable. Politicians know how to twirl the masses and cheat. Impoverishing the people 3-4 months before an election and then dangle 500 Php per vote and you'll get them OR cheat in the elections.

    As for voters, those who are already intelligent, finished college etc sometimes get duped by political promises. Compare them to the masses who have yet to finish highschool but is of age to vote and only enticed to vote because of other factors instead of patriotism...
    but that could be said of the Philippines in general. Whether it be about dynastic or just any campaigns. In fact you can also say this about the competence level of the Philippine democracy, but in the end it's really about who voted them. Because although dynastic are bad, it's really about who vote politicians in office. I mean I remember whoever that guy that was found on that audio sample talking to Arroyo in helping her cheat last election...didn't he disappeared then won a seat somewhere in Mindanao? Lol.

    It's really about the competence of the democracy: from voting boxers because they can box, voting for incompetent actors and actresses because they are popular, voting for a bill because the priests said so in the mass, etc. The competence level of Filipino democracy is irrevocably the final question. I mean Erap is running again? Those college kids that once supported the EDSA Dos, I watched them two years later trying to depose Arroyo who they put into power didn't they? Lol. Demagoguery and incompetency.

    I've work in two campaigns in the US so far, and I wouldn't say that all of US voters are of course not influenced by party lines, rhetoric, and simple stupidity, but by large although American voters lack participation (close to only 50% vote and that's a huge number in a good election year) they are far more educated in the ballot than Filipinos (who I'm sure have higher participation rate than Americans).

    As for term limits, how do you separate dynasticism and good politicians who like in the US senate, create good laws (a skill they acquire through years and decades of being in office). Me and a friend from Honduras was debating about his countries' problem with presidential term limits (in the same way we did immediately post Marcos and Erap), which in a country similar to ours or worse Honduras tried to curb despotic measures of the executive by shortening term...he concluded (his father was former foreign affair secty and adviser to the president) that term limits hurt the capacity to pass laws and actually do good for the country, in which nothing gets done. I think the fatalism of Filipinos' fear of undemocratic practices by politicians (despotism, corruption, and this one dynasties) make them exaggerate the problem even more.

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonei View Post
    I was going to say this. But you already have. Ganyan talaga wa;ang congressman o senador susuporta sa batas na yan dahil lahat lahat naman halos sila ay members ng political clan
    So that's it then? We just give up because all seems hopeless? You do know that you make a perfect slave to the establishment don't you agree? I'd bet if you were still living in Rizal's time, you would be one of those people who would just advocate letting the Spaniards rule our country. Besides, all things seemed hopeless then..

    Somebody in Congress should institute term limits for all individuals across the board. They may not like it but someone who is an idealist should bring it up and hopefully use the correct outlet (mass media, internet, newspapers, etc) for it to reach public support and sympathy..aren't there individuals in there that are given seats as party list?

  15. #14
    This is something Charter Change should work on. Clarifying laws. But Charter Change is a double edged sword. It can chop corruption or chop the people... by whoever is holding it.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by F-A Soldier View Post
    As for term limits, how do you separate dynasticism and good politicians who like in the US senate, create good laws (a skill they acquire through years and decades of being in office). Me and a friend from Honduras was debating about his countries' problem with presidential term limits (in the same way we did immediately post Marcos and Erap), which in a country similar to ours or worse Honduras tried to curb despotic measures of the executive by shortening term...he concluded (his father was former foreign affair secty and adviser to the president) that term limits hurt the capacity to pass laws and actually do good for the country, in which nothing gets done. I think the fatalism of Filipinos' fear of undemocratic practices by politicians (despotism, corruption, and this one dynasties) make them exaggerate the problem even more.
    No it doesn't, why would it hurt the passage of laws? IMO the idea of term limits isn't for a particular position alone but rather for individuals who run for office. As I've said before, we could propose term limits here in the Philippines that makes it only legal for an individual to run for a certain number of times (for example, an individual can only be elected to office for 3-5 times and after that he can't run for politics anymore irregardless of position) to make sure governance isn't made a career.

    And besides, most bills passed today in Congress takes months, hell even years for it to be ratified. And most Congressmen don't even bother to read it except for a few controversial bills. Again, why would it hurt the passage of laws when in fact all it takes is just a simple review and a resounding vote for it to be passed as a law to the state? If Congress finds a particular bill favorable then it doesn't matter whether the bill is an old or new one, they will just vote it in to be implemented.

  17. #16
    Your Personal Jesus F-A Soldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -=Sniper=- View Post
    No it doesn't, why would it hurt the passage of laws? IMO the idea of term limits isn't for a particular position alone but rather for individuals who run for office. As I've said before, we could propose term limits here in the Philippines that makes it only legal for an individual to run for a certain number of times (for example, an individual can only be elected to office for 3-5 times and after that he can't run for politics anymore irregardless of position) to make sure governance isn't made a career.

    And besides, most bills passed today in Congress takes months, hell even years for it to be ratified. And most Congressmen don't even bother to read it except for a few controversial bills. Again, why would it hurt the passage of laws when in fact all it takes is just a simple review and a resounding vote for it to be passed as a law to the state? If Congress finds a particular bill favorable then it doesn't matter whether the bill is an old or new one, they will just vote it in to be implemented.
    It's not the passage of laws, but the passage of 'good laws'. It take years to be good senators, I can testify that here in the US, that is why there's no term limit here in the US legislative. I've been in student bodies and other presidential and parliamentary types of commission, and I can rectify that being a rookie it took me a while to understand not just the proper governing/processes/ ethics of the boards, besides writing proposals.

    As for the time it takes to pass a bill, you yourself said that it takes time, the pal of mine's argument against the short term limits in Honduras (as his father saw and he himself concluded) that the executive branch is continuously made lame by it. Think about it, given his country is recouping from years of bad governance, to be replaced by a new one. According to him and his father's firsthand accounts, it takes almost two years just to get the plans going, the rest of the four years spend trying to shoot this plan...FROM the very day he was elected he's a lame duck, because no further than one term is allowed. Then a new administration, with new promise, and new plans, and new actions...much of the old abandoned or was left with the legacy of unfinished promises of the past. It's not from me, it's from his father who'd been active in Central American politics for decades.

    Same could be said here, because we are scared of 'another Marcos' we cut the president (but it didn't curtail the amount of the executive's corruption... 23 years after EDSA look at Malacanang today)...we seem to want to cut the capabilities of legislative because we're scared of 'dynasties'...? There's gotta be a better way.

    Besides even with term limits it doesn't tell me that 'dynasties' are going to end. As long as people are willing to run, people are dumb enough to vote it will be it.

    Me myself I don't despise 'dynasties' as long as good leaders come out, why not. Besides they are still bound by 'democratic' consitution and as long as selected democratically... as Aristotle said in the Politics that, as long as aristocracy means 'the rule of the best' let it be.

  18. #17
    kissed by a rose
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    Quote Originally Posted by -=Sniper=- View Post
    So that's it then? We just give up because all seems hopeless? You do know that you make a perfect slave to the establishment don't you agree? I'd bet if you were still living in Rizal's time, you would be one of those people who would just advocate letting the Spaniards rule our country. Besides, all things seemed hopeless then..

    Somebody in Congress should institute term limits for all individuals across the board. They may not like it but someone who is an idealist should bring it up and hopefully use the correct outlet (mass media, internet, newspapers, etc) for it to reach public support and sympathy..aren't there individuals in there that are given seats as party list?
    I did not say that. Ang sinasabi ko, wala kang maasahan sa mga tongressman at senatong natin. They will never pass that law because it would incriminate them. For that to happen, we need to elect more congressmen willing to support the move. Preferably from non-political families

  19. #18
    Super Sawsaw LITHIUM478's Avatar
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    No it doesn't, why would it hurt the passage of laws? IMO the idea of term limits isn't for a particular position alone but rather for individuals who run for office. As I've said before, we could propose term limits here in the Philippines that makes it only legal for an individual to run for a certain number of times (for example, an individual can only be elected to office for 3-5 times and after that he can't run for politics anymore irregardless of position) to make sure governance isn't made a career.
    So you are limiting the political career (elective post) of an individual and not addressing the dynasty.

    Assuming we agree to limit the term of an individual to 5 times, possible career scenario would be:
    1st Term: Municipal Councilor
    2nd Term: Vice Mayor
    3rd Term: Mayor
    4rd Term: Governor
    5th Term: Governor
    Stop

    But we are still not preventing his wife (or mistress), son, brother, sister, cousin, to hold another elective position simultaneously, and probably being groomed to succeed the incumbent.

    If we multiply 5 years per term by 5 terms, it would be 25 years already (this is not counting a government position - e.g. Department Secretary - to which he may be appointed in case he lose an election). Which could be illustrated this way:

    1st Term: Municipal Councilor
    2nd Term: Vice Mayor
    3rd Term: Mayor
    x Term: Department Secretary (lose the election)
    4rd Term: Governor
    x Term: Ambassador (lose the election)
    5th Term: Governor
    x Term: Commissioner (reached term limit)

    I may dissent however that governance should be made a career. Take the case of foreign service for example, those that are career diplomats seems to serve and focus better than those merely appointed (usually losing candidates of the administration party). It also follows that 6 years limit (one-term) for the presidency is too short for a good president but too long for a bad president.

    For candidates running for election, I think there should be stringent qualifications not merely "to be able to read and write" (read: popular personality), I think a psycho/neuro exam is essential, senators be elected per region, strengthen local governments, and so on... So many things to do so little time.

    We even have husband and wife, siblings, father and son competing for the same office, that I think should also be addressed.

    On another note (OT but related), there are families that doesn't care who are the elected leaders as long as these elected leaders are serving the interest of the family (e.g. Lopez'es, business tycoons, landlords).

  20. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonei View Post
    I did not say that. Ang sinasabi ko, wala kang maasahan sa mga tongressman at senatong natin. They will never pass that law because it would incriminate them. For that to happen, we need to elect more congressmen willing to support the move. Preferably from non-political families
    I agree, the political situation of our country is sad actually. Might as well try other forms of governance, anarchism perhaps?

  21. #20
    Super Sawsaw LITHIUM478's Avatar
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    Every time I hear the word 'anarchism', William Golding's Lord of the Flies comes to my mind.

    What branch of anarchism are you espousing? Do you have a model or historical reference?
    __
    Say hi to acer2009.

  22. Oct 27, 2009, 03:52 AM

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