Is It Possible For Second Cousins To Get Married?

[devilito]

I have a friend who have this problem.He's having a relationship with his second cousin, they are really serious about each other and is planning to get married. The problem is how can they tell their families, since they are cousins? do you guys think that their relationship should continue or should they end it?
Will their families be able to accept them as a couple?

[tzinita]

If you meant second-degree cousins, then legally, there is no problem (Think Mikey Arroyo and Angela Montenegro).

So I guess, it all depends on how close their families are, and how they view these kinds of relationships.

For some families, it is no big deal (at least the families know each other beforehand.)

For some, fear of genetic problems will be the basis of their opposition. (which may or may not be unfounded).

[lancealmekian]

Hmm probably not. If they really are serious and they want to continue what they are doing, it is their choice; but of course their families and everyone else who know how they are blood related won't agree with it. I can't give the exact name of the provision, but in Philippine Law, only cousins of third degree of consanguinity are allowed to marry. In our country, it will always be looked down on as incest.

EDIT: I did a little research for you TS. Chapter 3, Article 38 of the family code has your answer:

Art. 38. The following marriages shall be void from the beginning for reasons of public policy:

(1) Between collateral blood relatives whether legitimate or illegitimate, up to the fourth civil degree;
(2) Between step-parents and step-children;
(3) Between parents-in-law and children-in-law;
(4) Between the adopting parent and the adopted child;
(5) Between the surviving spouse of the adopting parent and the adopted child;
(6) Between the surviving spouse of the adopted child and the adopter;
(7) Between an adopted child and a legitimate child of the adopter;
(8) Between adopted children of the same adopter; and
(9) Between parties where one, with the intention to marry the other, killed that other person's spouse, or his or her own spouse. (82)

There's your answer.

Anyway, Mikey Arroyo being married to his second cousin may have been legalized only because his mother is the President. I don't know the legal implications, but it may have something to do with that. Of course some people will still look down on their marriage.

[java_chiq]

paging the pex lawyers! kindly shed some light here...

i googled some and really don't quite understand it
http://www.bcphilippineslawyers.com/...ilippines/490/

Declaration of Nullity of Marriage in the Philippines

Posted by admin on Sunday, March 15th, 2009

H - Marriages between ascendants and descendants of any degree; between brothers and sisters whether full- or half-blood are incestuous and void from the beginning.

http://www.bcphilippineslawyers.com/...ilippines/490/I - Though not incestuous the following between relatives are void from the beginning for reasons of public policy:

1. Between collateral blood relatives, whether legitimate or illegitimate, up to the fourth civil degree;

2. Between step-parents and step-children;

3. Between parents-in-law and children-in-law;

4. Between the adopting parent and the adopted child;

5. Between the surviving spouse of the adopting parent and the adopted child;

6. Between the surviving spouse of the adopted child and the adopter;

7. Between an adopted child and and a legitimate child of the adopter;

8. Between adopted children of the same adopter;

9. Between parties where one, with the intention to marry the other, killed the other person’s spouse, or his or her own spouse.

[lancealmekian]

Philippine law can be quite the spaghetti sometimes.

[JUST_JT]

Hmm probably not. If they really are serious and they want to continue what they are doing, it is their choice; but of course their families and everyone else who know how they are blood related won't agree with it. I can't give the exact name of the provision, but in Philippine Law, only cousins of third degree of consanguinity are allowed to marry. In our country, it will always be looked down on as incest.

EDIT: I did a little research for you TS. Chapter 3, Article 38 of the family code has your answer:

Art. 38. The following marriages shall be void from the beginning for reasons of public policy:

(1) Between collateral blood relatives whether legitimate or illegitimate, up to the fourth civil degree;

There's your answer.

Here is the definition of civil degrees:

http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/ar...tic/civil.html

Examples:

First degree: parent/child
Second degree: grandparent/grandchild, siblings
Third degree: Great grand parent/great grand child, uncle-auntie/nephew-niece
Fourth degree: first cousins, grand uncle-grand-auntie/grand nephew-grand niece

Here is the definition of second cousins:

• They have a common great-grand parent;
• Their grand parents are siblings;
• Their parents are first cousins;

The civil degree of kinship between second cousins is SIX. There are three degrees from the ego up to the great-grand parent and there are another three degrees from the great-grand parent down to the alter. 3+3=6

Therefore blood relatives up to the sixth civil degree can legally marry in 'Pinas. Therefore, SECOND COUSINS CAN LEGALLY MARRY in 'Pinas.

-Just_JT
Therefore.lancealmekian.is.WRONG.

[JUST_JT]

paging the pex lawyers! kindly shed some light here...

i googled some and really don't quite understand it
http://www.bcphilippineslawyers.com/...ilippines/490/

Declaration of Nullity of Marriage in the Philippines

Posted by admin on Sunday, March 15th, 2009

H - Marriages between ascendants and descendants of any degree; between brothers and sisters whether full- or half-blood are incestuous and void from the beginning.

What don't you understand? Item H is very straight forward:

• You may not marry your ascendant; e.g. parent, grandparent, great grandparent, great great grandparent.
• You may not marry your descendant; e.g. child, grandchild, great grandchild, great great grandchild.
• You may not marry your brother or sister (sibling) - your blood relationship is two civil degrees.
• Full sibling is when you share both parents by blood.
• Half sibling is when you share only one parent by blood.

-Just_JT
A.genealogy.expert.wannabe.

[lancealmekian]

Per site

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...nguinity+chart

Item number 4 states:

4. Collateral consanguinity is the relation subsisting among persons who descend from the same common ancestor, but not from each other. It is essential to constitute this relation, that they spring from the same common root or stock, but in different branches. The mode of computing the degrees is to discover the common ancestor, to begin with him to reckon downwards, and the degree the two persons, or the more remote of them, is distant from the ancestor, is the degree of kindred subsisting between them. For instance, two brothers are related to each other in the first degree, because from the father to each of them is one degree. An uncle and a nephew are related to each other in tho second degree, because the nephew is two degrees distant from the common ancestor, and the rule of computation is extended to the remotest degrees of collateral relationship. This is the mode of computation by the common and canon law.

Canon law
A (common ancestor of S and D)

G1 G2 = (grandfathers of S and D; brothers) 1st degree

F1 F2 = (fathers of S and D; cousins) 2nd degree

S D = (Son of F1 and Daughter of F2; second cousins) 3rd degree

The method of computing by the civil law, is to begin at either of the persons in question and count up to the common ancestor, and then downwards to the, other person, calling it a degree for each person, both ascending and descending, and the degrees they stand from each other is the degree in which they stand related. Thus, from a nephew to his father, is one degree; to the grandfather, two degrees and then to the uncle, three; which points out the relationship.

Previous post was somewhat right about this (but not entirely since Conan law was not brought up).

Conan and Civil laws are different; the best answer for this thread's question is: if you decide to marry in Church, they probably won't let you; however, if you get a lawyer and have him conduct the wedding then 2nd cousins is okay.

As for the acceptance thing, if the family of both parties are traditional, they probably won't accept the union; if they aren't then they probably would. Filipino culture leans more towards not supporting marriage of up to second degree cousins.
I hope this helps you, TS.

[JUST_JT]

Previous post was somewhat right about this (but not entirely since Conan law was not brought up).

Conan and Civil laws are different; the best answer for this thread's question is: if you decide to marry in Church, they probably won't let you; however, if you get a lawyer and have him conduct the wedding then 2nd cousins is okay.

Canon law is now IRRELEVANT as far as Roman Catholic Church is concerned:

"The Catholic Church changed its kinship degree calculation from the canon to the civil system as part of the Vatican II reforms."

http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/ar...tic/civil.html

-Just_JT
Therefore.2nd.cousins.are.allowed.to.marry.by.RCC.

[lancealmekian]

Kung titingnan maigi ang first post ng TS, makikita na may mas malaking issue kesa sa kung pwede sila ikasal o hindi. May taong gunggong dito na naka-focus lang sa pag-prove na mali ang mga impormasyong nai-post namin ni Java Chig p0ta sobrang isip bata. Hirap yung ganyan. Tsk tsk tsk. Walang iiyak sa libingan nyan sa huling hantungan dahil walang nagmamahal sa kanya. Kaawaawa.

[JUST_JT]

Kung titingnan maigi ang first post ng TS, makikita na may mas malaking issue kesa sa kung pwede sila ikasal o hindi. May taong gunggong dito na naka-focus lang sa pag-prove na mali ang mga impormasyong nai-post namin ni Java Chig p0ta sobrang isip bata. Hirap yung ganyan. Tsk tsk tsk. Walang iiyak sa libingan nyan sa huling hantungan dahil walang nagmamahal sa kanya. Kaawaawa.

Yep, you have too much f**king ego to ADMIT THAT WHAT YOU POSTED IS WRONG....

I corrected YOUR WRONG INFO so as not to spread MISINFORMATION. I did not respond to the TS directly because his question is SUBJECTIVE. I have NFI about the family involved so I have no answer whether they would accept the union.

Here's a free lesson for you: verify, digest and understand your info before you post it so you don't spread MISINFORMATION. Otherwise you just look STUPID!!

-Just_JT
Dumb.f**ks.let.their.egos.get.the.better.of.them.

[java_chiq]

oh dear...pataasan na naman kayong dalawa ng ihi?
what is up with you guys? you both have valid points...no need to squeeze each others necks.

TS...it would be really hard for your friends, no matter how we put it our culture is still conservative...do you think they're really that into each other? seriously considering marriage?

[JUST_JT]

TS...it would be really hard for your friends, no matter how we put it our culture is still conservative...do you think they're really that into each other? seriously considering marriage?

The best advice I can give the couple would be to open up to their parents. If parents do not consent and they persist on the relationship, well, if they're of legal age, parents no longer have a say in the matter. Besides, parents can easily change their minds should they realise that the couple are truly in love and are doing well together.

So the couple should talk to their parents as soon as possible to get the issue in the open. Expect the worst and at the same time hope for the best.

-Just_JT
Honest.still.the.best.policy.

[lancealmekian]

Yep, you have too much f**king ego to ADMIT THAT WHAT YOU POSTED IS WRONG....

I corrected YOUR WRONG INFO so as not to spread MISINFORMATION. I did not respond to the TS directly because his question is SUBJECTIVE. I have NFI about the family involved so I have no answer whether they would accept the union.

Here's a free lesson for you: verify, digest and understand your info before you post it so you don't spread MISINFORMATION. Otherwise you just look STUPID!!

-Just_JT
Dumb.f**ks.let.their.egos.get.the.better.of.them.

Sa ating dalawa tingnan mo nga kung sino parang umuusok ang ilong? Hahaha puro all caps ka pa gunggong.

[sweet_sexymomi]

Pwede Na Siguro,, Yung Mom And Dad Ko 3rd Cousin... Pero Iisa Ang Ninuno Nila Dun Lang Sila Umikot Sa Pamilya Nila...

[JUST_JT]

Sa ating dalawa tingnan mo nga kung sino parang umuusok ang ilong? Hahaha puro all caps ka pa gunggong.

Like I wrote, you have TOO MUCH F**KING EGO to admit YOU'RE WRONG.

BTW, didn't you say you will never respond to any of my posts ever again? Now I've proven you TO BE A LIAR, too.

-Just_JT
Smart.people.apologise.for.wrong.and.move.on.

[lancealmekian]

Like I wrote, you have TOO MUCH F**KING EGO to admit YOU'RE WRONG.

BTW, didn't you say you will never respond to any of my posts ever again? Now I've proven you TO BE A LIAR, too.

-Just_JT
Smart.people.apologise.for.wrong.and.move.on.

Liar? Bobo ka ba? Hindi lang ako nag-keep ng promise, pero hindi lying tawag dun b0bo. Binawi ko. Inisip ko lang kasi why would I want to stay quite when reading your ugly posts, when I could have so much more fun playing flame wars? Sus. Bob0 ka. Ang tanda mo na e. Sana may natutunan ka man lang no? P0tangna anong klaseng kwarenta-y-singko anyos ang kasing bob0 kasing isip bata mo?

At bakit ako magsosori sa iyo? Sino ka ba? P0ta kahit president ka ng Pilipinas pag ganyan ka ka-gunggong at ka-b0bo, may lilibak at may lilibak sa iyo. Di ako nagiisa no. Dati ka pa may nakakaaway dito, at laging ganun kasi gunggong ka. Sus. Ego-hin mo mukha mo. Baka hindi mo alam kung ano ang ego e.

[JUST_JT]

At bakit ako magsosori sa iyo?

I'm not asking you to apologise to me. I don't give a f**k about you; your dumbarse ilk are a dime a dozen.

You should apologise to PEX for posting the incorrect information.

-Just_JT
Sad.that.at.26.you're.still.a.f**kwit.

[lancealmekian]

Oh really? Eh bakit ikaw lang nagsasabi nyan?
May mga na-offend ba kong pexers? Kung meron, feel free to post. Ngayon pa lang nagsosori na ko.

Sa iyo tanda, sori din. Bored na ko e. Akala ko challenging ka nung una. I was wrong. Mas engot ka pa sa inaakala ko.

[devilito]

o

TS...it would be really hard for your friends, no matter how we put it our culture is still conservative...do you think they're really that into each other? seriously considering marriage?

yep, they were really serious about getting married but hesitant to open to their parents. I've witnessed their relationship and it's not what you'll call "dala *** ng init ng katawan". In fact they handle their relationship quite maturely. Mas better pa nga yung relasyon nila kesa sa ibang nobserbahan ko. Sa tagal ba naman na magkakilala nilang dalawa eh kilalang kilala na nila isa't isa. Walang tantrums, pag may problema npag uusapan nila and wala silang insecurities sa relasyon nila. The only problem really is yun nga mag second cousin sila. Bale mag first cousins yung parents nila.