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  1. #1

    Utos ng Diyos ang Mga Larawan at Rebulto sa SIMBAHAN

    Unang una po lets define Idolatry. Idolatry is the worship of false gods(NIV compact Dictionary of the Bible, page 266)
    Ang mga imahe o rebulto ng mga santo ay hindi dios-diosan, sapagkat hindi sila kinikilalang Diyos ng mga Katoliko at ng Simbahan. Ang mga katoliko na sumasamba sa mga imahe o rebulto, sila po ay magkakasala at ito po ay tinatawag na ADOLATRIA ayon sa Batas ng Simbahang Katolika.
    Heto po ang mga totoong turo ng Iglesia Katolika patungkol sa mga imahe at rebulto
    "We honor sacred images in order to show our veneration for the person the represent, not to adore them as gods" (My Catholic faith, page 191)

    "We do not pray to the crucifix, to the images and relics of the saint but to the person they represent"(Catholic Cathechism number 565)

    Sa 1cor 8:4 ". . . .An idol is nothing at the World"

    Sa mga kapatid nating INC at mga Protestante, hindi po kami sumasamba sa mga imahe at mga rebulto.

    Ang Diyos pa ho mismo ang nagpagawa ng imahe, tinganan natin sa exodus 25:18-22 " And thou shalt make two cherubims [of] gold, [of] beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of mercy seat.(25:19)And make one cherub on the one end, and the othe cherub on the other end:[even] of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two end thereof: . . . . At sa templo pa ng Diyos ipapalagay ang mga banal na imahe(2Cron. 3:1. 7, 10-13. and 2Cron (7:15-16)Na sa mga talata na ito ipinag uutos ng Diyos ang pagsamba at pagdarasal sa kanyang templo, sapagkat dito mabubuksan ang kanyang mata at kanyan tainga para sa mga mananalangin. Napakalinaw at napatunayan po natin ipinag utos ng Diyos ang pagsamba sa kanyang templo. Sapagkat ang mga banal na imahe ay nagrerepresenta ng kabanalan at ipinapakita sa atin ang mga bagay na banal. Kayo mga kritiko ng aming Iglesia Katolika, Sumunod po ba kayo ba kayo sa utos ng Diyos?

    (Pls click here http://catholicfaithdefender.wordpress.com)
    Last edited by Dhugz; Apr 3, 2009 at 08:43 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhugz View Post

    Sa mga kapatid nating INC at mga Protestante, hindi po kami sumasamba sa mga imahe at mga rebulto.

    Ang Diyos pa ho mismo ang nagpagawa ng imahe, tinganan natin sa exodus 25:18-22 " And thou shalt make two cherubims [of] gold, [of] beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of mercy seat.(25:19)And make one cherub on the one end, and the othe cherub on the other end:[even] of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two end thereof: . . . . At sa templo pa ng Diyos ipapalagay ang mga banal na imahe(2Cron. 3:1. 7, 10-13. and 2Cron (7:15-16)Na sa mga talata na ito ipinag uutos ng Diyos ang pagsamba at pagdarasal sa kanyang templo, sapagkat dito mabubuksan ang kanyang mata at kanyan tainga para sa mga mananalangin. Napakalinaw at napatunayan po natin ipinag utos ng Diyos ang pagsamba sa kanyang templo. Sapagkat ang mga banal na imahe ay nagrerepresenta ng kabanalan at ipinapakita sa atin ang mga bagay na banal. Kayo mga kritiko ng aming Iglesia Katolika, Sumunod po ba kayo ba kayo sa utos ng Diyos?

    (Pls click here http://catholicfaithdefender.wordpress.com)

    The church or the temple is not a physical structure according to the Bible in the New Testament. It is a human being who is the faithful follower of the teachings of Christ:

    1 CORINTHIANS 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God , and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

    Wherefore, the spiritual temple is the faithful follower that was "built beautifully" by Jesus Christ and continued by His apostles. "Spiritual churches," therefore, were the groups of real believers like the Christians or the church of Rome, the church of Corinth, the church of Galatia, the church of Ephesus, and the Christians or the church of Colosse, etc. A careful thought of this will bring us to the command of God in Genesis 1:22: "Be fruitful and multiply." This was taken spiritually by Jesus Christ and His apostles. "Fruitfulness" refers to the individual believersí spiritual fruit(s) coming from the Spirit:

    GALATIANS 5:22-23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

    and "increase or multiply" was what Christ and His apostles actually did - the enlargement of the spiritual church or the different Christian groups that composed the "household of God."


    EPHESIANS 2:19-20 "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;"

    Paul could have been guilty of the command of God in Genesis 1:22"Be fruitful and multiply" if he had not believed and followed that the "word is spirit (John 6:63)."

    The construction of the physical Tabernacle in the wilderness is actually a demonstration for the building of the spiritual church. Let us be reminded that one of the reasons why "God was manifest in the flesh" was to show the way, by example, to the Chosen.

    God commanded Moses and the Israelites to build a physical tabernacle to be His dwelling place and be with His people. Here is the instruction for the construction of the Tabernacle:

    EXODUS 25:8 "And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them."


    God definitely stated that He was to dwell in the tabernacle that He could be with His people. Godís residence, therefore, was the physical tabernacle. The spiritual nature of the word of God will be fully appreciated as we relate the tabernacle, the physical residence, to the real believer, later to become the spiritual dwelling place of God.

    EXODUS 25:9 "According to all that I show thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it."


    "According to all that I show thee" points to the fact that God was to demonstrate the actual building of the tabernacle, physically and later spiritually. Spiritually, God showed the model. He was JESUS CHRIST Himself! Later, His brethren are also to be fashioned after Him, for He was the model spiritual tabernacle. Let us be reminded of Godís plan for salvation. It is the restoration of the image of God in His chosen people after its shattering upon the fall.

    EPHESIANS 4:13 "Till we all come...unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"


    The tabernacle was not only planned by God, but its construction was under His specifications and direction. So with Jesus, as the example for the spiritual tabernacle, He was made perfect under the direction of the Father, and not through His own personal capability as a human being: JOHN 8:38 "I speak that which I have seen with my father..." JOHN 5:19 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." JOHN 6:38 "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me."


    The real believer, following the example set by our Lord for the spiritual temple, also cannot be made a true and a perfect spiritual dwelling place of God on his own personal capability. Nor could he be the spiritual temple under the direction of anybody, whoever he may be, with human precepts, human doctrines, or manís ways.

    Just as "God dwelleth NOT in temples made with hands," so does God dwelleth not in people made righteous with human ways under human standards. The tabernacle was a shadow of our Lord, as He was the pattern for the spiritual temple who is actually the real believer.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhugz View Post
    Sa mga kapatid nating INC at mga Protestante, hindi po kami sumasamba sa mga imahe at mga rebulto.
    some catholics do because I did. when i was young akala iyung santo ninio mismo ang dios. and all those folks na nagkakandarapa pumahid ng panyo sa paa ng mga rebulto, obviously they think god resides in those statues.

  4. #4
    i never think that way. Just like I never thought that piece of paper with inks in it was my mother...

    So dont generalize Catholics just because you understand wrongly from the rest of us...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by losav View Post
    i never think that way. Just like I never thought that piece of paper with inks in it was my mother...

    So dont generalize Catholics just because you understand wrongly from the rest of us...
    im not generalizing. im just saying that SOME catholics do fall into worshipping the statues themselves.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by sophion View Post
    im not generalizing. im just saying that SOME catholics do fall into worshipping the statues themselves.
    how sure you are?!

  7. #7
    IMPERSONATED Lola_Rose's Avatar
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    Una, basahin niyo yung aklat Katoliko na NINUNO. Sabi ng pari niyo, SINASAMBA ang mga larawan na yan.

    Contra kayo sa pari?

    Pangalawa, kung ayaw nyo aminin na sinasamba niyo ang mga istatwa, may utos ba sa Biblia na OK lang irepresent ang Diyos o si Cristo sa pamamagitan ng rebulto? Gawan sila ng litrato? Bakit kailangan ng picture?

    Pangatlo, bakit pinapahid ang panyo sa rebulto? O mga relics? Kung tingin niyo e sybolo o representations lang naman sila?

    Wake up,

  8. #8
    IMPERSONATED Lola_Rose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhugz View Post
    Unang una po lets define Idolatry. Idolatry is the worship of false gods(NIV compact Dictionary of the Bible, page 266)
    Ang mga imahe o rebulto ng mga santo ay hindi dios-diosan, sapagkat hindi sila kinikilalang Diyos ng mga Katoliko at ng Simbahan. Ang mga katoliko na sumasamba sa mga imahe o rebulto, sila po ay magkakasala at ito po ay tinatawag na ADOLATRIA ayon sa Batas ng Simbahang Katolika.
    Heto po ang mga totoong turo ng Iglesia Katolika patungkol sa mga imahe at rebulto
    "We honor sacred images in order to show our veneration for the person the represent, not to adore them as gods" (My Catholic faith, page 191)

    "We do not pray to the crucifix, to the images and relics of the saint but to the person they represent"(Catholic Cathechism number 565)

    Sa 1cor 8:4 ". . . .An idol is nothing at the World"

    Sa mga kapatid nating INC at mga Protestante, hindi po kami sumasamba sa mga imahe at mga rebulto.

    Ang Diyos pa ho mismo ang nagpagawa ng imahe, tinganan natin sa exodus 25:18-22 " And thou shalt make two cherubims [of] gold, [of] beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of mercy seat.(25:19)And make one cherub on the one end, and the othe cherub on the other end:[even] of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two end thereof: . . . . At sa templo pa ng Diyos ipapalagay ang mga banal na imahe(2Cron. 3:1. 7, 10-13. and 2Cron (7:15-16)Na sa mga talata na ito ipinag uutos ng Diyos ang pagsamba at pagdarasal sa kanyang templo, sapagkat dito mabubuksan ang kanyang mata at kanyan tainga para sa mga mananalangin. Napakalinaw at napatunayan po natin ipinag utos ng Diyos ang pagsamba sa kanyang templo. Sapagkat ang mga banal na imahe ay nagrerepresenta ng kabanalan at ipinapakita sa atin ang mga bagay na banal. Kayo mga kritiko ng aming Iglesia Katolika, Sumunod po ba kayo ba kayo sa utos ng Diyos?

    (Pls click here http://catholicfaithdefender.wordpress.com)

    oh, sheesh. Natalakay na ito dito at napagdebatihan na countless times dito sa RoT. At natalo na ang side na yan. Search mo, TS.

    Kasawa naman....

  9. #9
    Christ, Cross, Catholic nicolai_frank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lola_Rose View Post
    Una, basahin niyo yung aklat Katoliko na NINUNO. Sabi ng pari niyo, SINASAMBA ang mga larawan na yan.

    Contra kayo sa pari?
    We worship the statues in the sense of dulia not latria.

    That has been argued and explained countlessly and yet...

    Pangalawa, kung ayaw nyo aminin na sinasamba niyo ang mga istatwa, may utos ba sa Biblia na OK lang irepresent ang Diyos o si Cristo sa pamamagitan ng rebulto? Gawan sila ng litrato? Bakit kailangan ng picture?
    Who says pictures are KAILANGAN (necessary) to worship God? We can worship (latria) God without any picture. Did you not know that?

    Pangatlo, bakit pinapahid ang panyo sa rebulto? O mga relics? Kung tingin niyo e sybolo o representations lang naman sila?

    Wake up,
    That is called prototype dear. When we kiss the pictures of our loved ones (God does not forbid this), that has deeper meaning. That shows our deepest love for our loved ones. We do not love the pictures of our loved ones more than our loved ones themselves.

  10. #10
    Boxing Enthusiast edmendoza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolai_frank View Post
    We worship the statues in the sense of dulia not latria.

    That has been argued and explained countlessly and yet...



    Who says pictures are KAILANGAN (necessary) to worship God? We can worship (latria) God without any picture. Did you not know that?



    That is called prototype dear. When we kiss the pictures of our loved ones (God does not forbid this), that has deeper meaning. That shows our deepest love for our loved ones. We do not love the pictures of our loved ones more than our loved ones themselves.



    WoW! Lintek sa falusot my dear!

    Graven images na nga e! (estatwa na gawa sa kung ano-ano!!!)


    Wala ng LUSOT yan bok!

    Yung mga mahal mo sa buhay me mukha pero di mo alam mukha ng Diyos kaya huwag kayong mangapa!

    Sasagot na naman to na ignorante ako sa bible!!! Bwahahaha!!!!

  11. #11
    Christ, Cross, Catholic nicolai_frank's Avatar
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    Well, Jesus who is God became flesh. He is the image of the Father. Who says nobody knows the face of God?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nicolai_frank View Post
    Well, Jesus who is God became flesh. He is the image of the Father. Who says nobody knows the face of God?
    Have you seen the face of Jesus?
    (not the paintings/artists' impressions)

    Do you think Jesus had a tailbone when he became flesh?
    If not, he didn't become flesh 100%, or he's physically different/not human/alien in body structure.

    Does he have a tailbone now in Heaven?

    So, God the Father has a tailbone too?
    If no, then Christ is not the Father's image.

    But if God the Father has a tailbone,
    it means he evolved too

    Which means we weren't created in God's image, we created God in OUR image.

  13. #13
    Naku mga tao talaga lalo ang mga pekeng Kristiyano. . . . Kung sabagay pareho lang sila ng kanilang mga Founder ng mga kanilang kulto

  14. #14
    Boxing Enthusiast edmendoza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolai_frank View Post
    Well, Jesus who is God became flesh. He is the image of the Father. Who says nobody knows the face of God?





    agree!

    Sino sa mga nakakita Ke Jesus ang nagtangka man lamang na i-drawing ang mukha NIYA bilang alaala, nung wala na siya?

    me nakasulat ba? Saan ninyo nakuha yang kabulukan na yan?

    falusot!

  15. #15
    Boxing Enthusiast edmendoza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhugz View Post
    Naku mga tao talaga lalo ang mga pekeng Kristiyano. . . . Kung sabagay pareho lang sila ng kanilang mga Founder ng mga kanilang kulto


    ayusin mo ang pagbabasa ng bible mo para magkaroon maski konteng sense ang mga pinagsasabi mo!

  16. #16
    The in carnation of God, and the putting on of human flesh of the Word, has created a new spiritual dimension where in there is the acknowledgement of the necessity of icons, pictures, and forms in our worships.

  17. #17
    Boxing Enthusiast edmendoza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamantium View Post
    The in carnation of God, and the putting on of human flesh of the Word, has created a new spiritual dimension where in there is the acknowledgement of the necessity of icons, pictures, and forms in our worships.






    says who???

  18. #18
    NO ABSOLUTE TRUTH N SCIENCE Angelforlife's Avatar
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    57 Ang mga diyus-diyosang iyon na yari sa kahoy at binalot ng ginto at pilak ay hindi makakatutol sa mga magnanakaw at tulisan. 58 Wala silang magagawa kunin man ng mga ito ang kanilang ginto, pilak at mga kasuotan.




    http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=123504
    Ulo at 2 braso ng santo sa simbahan ninakaw
    (Pilipino Star Ngayon) Updated November 18, 2000 12:00 AM Comments (0)

    BACOLOR, Pampanga Ė Nilooban ng hindi pa mga nakikilalang lalaki ang isang simbahan dito at ninakaw ang ulo at dalawang braso ng isang 200 taong gulang na antigong santo sa Barangay Sta. Barbara, dito.

    Ito ang nabatid kay Bacolor Mayor Canlas Jr. na sinabing maaaring alam ng mga magnanakaw ang kasaysayan ng naturang antigong estatwa ni Santo Guillermo na tinatayang may 200 taong gulang na at nakalagak sa loob ng San Guillermo Parish Church sa Barangay Sta Barbara.

    Binanggit pa ng alkalde na ang pugot at walang brasong life-size statue ni San Guillermo ay hindi na maisasama sa isasagawang prosisyon sa darating na linggo dahil sa kalagayang sinapit nito.

    Nagpalabas naman ng P20,000 cash reward ang alkalde sa sinumang makapagtuturo sa nawawalang parte ng katawan ng statwa. (Ulat ni Jeff Tombado)







    Baruc 6
    19 Ipinagsisindi sila ng mga pari ng maraming ilaw---higit pa sa kanilang kailangan. Ngunit isa man sa mga ito'y hindi nakikita ng mga diyus-diyosang iyon.






    Baruc 6
    73 Mapalad ang taong may paggalang sa tunay na Diyos. Hindi siya sumasamba sa mga diyus-diyosan, kaya hindi siya malilinlang o mapapagtawanan.

  19. #19
    NO ABSOLUTE TRUTH N SCIENCE Angelforlife's Avatar
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    21 Nangingitim ang kanilang mga mukha dahil sa usok na galing sa templo. 22 Dinadapuan sila ng mga paniki, ng mga layang-layang at ng iba pang mga ibon, at inuupuan ng pusa. 23 Ang lahat ng ito ay nangangahulugang sila'y hindi diyos. Kaya, huwag ninyo silang sambahin.


  20. #20
    Mkring 和 史蒂芬 charcan's Avatar
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    ^creepy ang magdasal sa mga idols

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