The Reproductive Health Bill - Passed 3rd and Final HR Reading 2012/12/17

[cool_ambo]

is still producing a lot of impassioned debates from our congressmen. They have kept up this debates for so many years now after this bill was introduced.

If they must know, the big countries of the world have been wrestling with the questions involved in this bill, but they have yet to come up with a resolution. Which means that these countries are now watching the Philippines to resolve these questions. The Filipinos may have a better way of arguing things to find the right answers. Oh, this is for sure. We do not call them pilosopos for nothing.

But seriously, this bill pits the tenets of the Christian religion against the needs of society. God then gets into the picture which is presently smattered with poverty, hunger and crime.

I say a resolution might not be forthcoming.

If it does come about, it will be because people have ubderstood and weighed all the arguments that would be presented in Congress.

[Ghost Rider]

I think beside from Catholic Church's demolition jobs on the RH Bill, the pro-RH Bill legislators have weak arguments that makes it more debatable. I suggest solid facts and discussions (although it is very obvious naman) should be prepared, not only portraying poverty, health and scarcity of resources of families as the main reasons to pass the bill.

They forgot some important strong arguments to open the mind of these pathetic and empty-brained co-legislators, catholic church and pro-life advocates: SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT.

AFAIK, the Philippines is included and signed the Agenda 21 promoting sustainable development. DENR Sec. Lito Atienza, a pro-life advocate and anti-RH Bill follower, really pissed me off especially during the hearings regarding the bill. He said: "Human beings are the most important species God have created, kaya dapat hindi pigilan ang pagdami". One pro-RH legislator said, "hindi ba maaapektuhan ang environment sa pagdami ng tao". At ang brainless na si Atienza ay nagsabing "hindi, andyan lang naman yan, ang dapat ay ang tamang pangangalaga sa kalikasan at di pagsira dito." I want to address these cases to Mr. Atienza and the Church:

1. As population grows, so as the need for building of houses, which means expanding residential land development. Effect, this is true, most agricultural lands are converted to residential use.

2. As population grows, so as the need for building materials for houses, raw materials for gadgets, raw materials for food, etc. Effect, the need to mine and quarry more minerals, destroying thousands of hectares of mountain forest, cutting trees for lumbers to use in construction.

3. As population grows, so as the need for additional food supply. Result, farmers practice kaingin system in forest areas to develop it as agricultural land for agricultural expansion. Moreover, the effect of losing farmlands due to case #1 forcing farmers to look for another area of farming. See the connection with cases # 1 and 2?

4. As population grows, industrialization and commercialization increases. additional lands are required. Effect, expanding land in the water areas, oceans and seas, which we called in biology "water logging". Japan, UAE and Philippines are known to these activities.

5. As population grows, overgrazing of natural resources such as marine resources (fishes and other edible species in water), forest, etc. Almost the same as in case # 2 the only difference is, people thought resources like these are unlimited and can be used and grazed continuously. Tsk, tsk, tsk

6. As population grows, imbalance in ecosystem will happen because the carrying capacity of one area cannot hold and support any longer the growng population of one particular population, in this case, us humans. Floods, water pollution, air pollution, scarcity of food and drinking water supply, accelerated death and extinction of other species, solid waste problems, diseases, landslides, etc., only few of the problems cause by an imbalance ecosystem.

Madami pa ko naiisip, pero these cases are the most important arguments to be considered to stregthen the RH Bill. Pabor ako dito, I believe quality is better than quantity (a small population with good quality of life is better than having a large population but living in poverty or below poverty level).

I think the pro-RH legislators sould look forward to consult and have speakers form different fields, especially on environmental and scientific part, let's admit it, they are more aware of the problem that anybody there in that hall. Ang bababaw kasi ng arguments nila at paulit-ulit. Kahit nag mga ***** tulad ni Atienza, ng simbahan at ni congresswoman Susano di nila mabokya at mapahiya, biruin mo mga arguments na ganun nagpapatalo sila, whatever, hay naku.

[albert_sy2]

most of those people who are "oppose" to the bill know NOTHING about the bill; they are just opposed to it because they are "christian".

[Ghost Rider]

The church dosn't want to control the population kasi may vested interest sila dito. Mas maraming bata, dagdag sa negosyo, maraming magpapabinyag. Mas maraming maghihirap, mas maraming lalapit sa simbahan at sa mga kulto, di ba Bro. Mike Velarde? Kulang pa ba ang kinikita mo, dami mo na lupa at nagpapatayo ka ng condominium ha.

Let's admit it, typical christians, most of us, lumalapit lang sa simbahan at sa mga charismatic groups na eto pag naghihirap na at problemado, dasal ng dasal, pero pag meron na tigil na, anyway, what's the connection? Well, mas maraming maghihirap, mas maraming magsisimba at dadalo ng prayer meetings, mas maraming kaperahan in form of offerings, sa El Shaddai pa lang, kahit piso lang ibigay mo sa abuloy, eh ilan umaatend dyan every prayer meeting? Use your imagination.

So why control the population, eh dyan kumikita ang mga fake na sugo ng Diyos? Kunwari pa, pera lang ang habol, masunog sana kaluluwa sa impiyerno. Magsama sama kayo ng pekeng presidente

Our country is being control by these hypocrites.

[Ghost Rider]

doublr post

[pian]

The church dosn't want to control the population kasi may vested interest sila dito. Mas maraming bata, dagdag sa negosyo, maraming magpapabinyag. Mas maraming maghihirap, mas maraming lalapit sa simbahan at sa mga kulto, di ba Bro. Mike Velarde? Kulang pa ba ang kinikita mo, dami mo na lupa at nagpapatayo ka ng condominium ha.

Let's admit it, typical christians, most of us, lumalapit lang sa simbahan at sa mga charismatic groups na eto pag naghihirap na at problemado, dasal ng dasal, pero pag meron na tigil na, anyway, what's the connection? Well, mas maraming maghihirap, mas maraming magsisimba at dadalo ng prayer meetings, mas maraming kaperahan in form of offerings, sa El Shaddai pa lang, kahit piso lang ibigay mo sa abuloy, eh ilan umaatend dyan every prayer meeting? Use your imagination.

So why control the population, eh dyan kumikita ang mga fake na sugo ng Diyos? Kunwari pa, pera lang ang habol, masunog sana kaluluwa sa impiyerno. Magsama sama kayo ng pekeng presidente

Our country is being control by these hypocrites.

The primary reason why the church is against artificial contraceptives is that they prevent life. It has nothing to do with money at all.
The reality for now is that we are dirtpoor.
The argument for these artificial contraceptives would be they are the lesser evil than abortion of 800k/yr.

[feistyradical]

RP teenage pregnancy on the rise- World Bank


09/25/2008 | 04:36 PM
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MANILA, Philippines - The World Bank on Thursday raised the alarm on the bigger number of Filipina youths who are giving birth in their adolescent years.

In the report “Equality for Women; Where do We Stand on Millennium Development Goal 3?" the Washington-based lender noted that the Philippines was among the 10 countries where there are increasing adolescent motherhood rates in the period from 1993 to 2003.

“Of the 36 countries with available data, 73 percent had decreasing adolescent motherhood rates during the period. Ghana and Burkina Faso, for instance, managed to reduce adolescent pregnancy and motherhood from 21.5 percent and 31.1 percent, respectively, to 13.8 percent and 23.2 percent during the period 1993 to 2003. Ten countries, however, showed the reverse trend of increasing rates- Colombia, the Dominican Republic, Ethiopia, Kenya, Madagascar, Mozambique, Niger, Peru, the Philippines, and Zimbabwe," the report said.

The Bank noted that adolescent motherhood is associated with continuing poverty.

“Adolescent motherhood is associated with poorer development outcomes for children—including low educational attainment and future adult poverty—thus perpetuating the
vicious circle of poverty," the report said.

The Bank has issued the report in assessment of the world’s progress in achieving the eight MDGs, the benchmarks formulated in 2000 and since then used in determining whether nations are on track in halving extreme poverty by half in 2015.

Gender equality, the Bank said, includes women’s economic empowerment.

“The message that emerges is both hopeful and sobering: progress toward equality in capabilities (for example, education) has been considerable, but progress toward equality of opportunities for women’s economic livelihoods leaves much to be desired," the report said.

The Bank added that nations must provide funds and the necessary policies in ensuring that women are given access to equal economic opportunities that their male counterparts enjoy.

“Equality for Women also makes clear that adequate funding is necessary, but not sufficient: policies must also be appropriate, and execution of these policies must be reasonably efficient—both at the national level and within international agencies charged with supporting national governments. Only when these three elements—funding, policy, and execution—are aligned will progress toward gender equality be rapid," the Bank added.

The MDG 3 was also defined as eliminating gender disparity in primary and secondary education, preferably by 2005, and at all levels of education no later than 2015.

“The good news is that 82 of 122 countries for which data are available achieved the official MDG3 target of gender parity in primary and secondary enrollment by 2005. However, 19 countries are seriously off track to meet this target, even by 2015. In general, progress in expanding women’s opportunities has lagged behind progress in expanding women’s capabilities. Efforts are needed to ‘level the playing field’ for women so they can use their increased capabilities in the economy and society," the Bank noted. GMANews.TV

http://www.gmanews.tv/story/122893/R...se--World-Bank

[Ghost Rider]

The primary reason why the church is against artificial contraceptives is that they prevent life. It has nothing to do with money at all.
The reality for now is that we are dirtpoor.
The argument for these artificial contraceptives would be they are the lesser evil than abortion of 800k/yr.

I think we need to distinguish between using contrceptive and abortion.

Abortion, the woman has already a living embryo or fetus inside of her, and it is remove due to some personal reasons.

Using contraceptive is a different one, you prevent the sperm and the egg to be united to prevent unwanted pregnancy. In this part, I don't see any killing of any human being, you are just preventing it to be one. Single cell level pa lang eto, you can't consider it as killing unlike abortion na talagang buo na at buhay na.

Let's be realistic in here, let's not act as hypocrites like the church, kahit anong gawin nilang teachings sa church, humans, like animals have animalistic instinct, and one of them is sex. Face it, it is a natural thing to do, with or without contraceptive. The bad thing here is, we need to control it, because the bigger our population gets, the poorer we become, the quality of life and the resources are affected drastically. The government should do something about it, our economy is affected by this population bloom. And hello, iba na ang generation natin ngayon, most are open-minded na, we need to teach our children the proper way to do it and when is the right time to do it, ng mabawasan ang curiosity nila at magawa ng tama, hindi natin sila mapipigilan pag ginusto nila, so to save their future and prevent unwanted pregnancies, we need to do this, sex education is one of the provisions of the bill.

Aminin man ng simbahan o hindi, pera ang isang dahilan nito, the church is too commercialize now. Mababawasan ang offerings nila. Saka teka, ayaw nila ng contraceptive, pero sa labas ng simbahan like sa Quiapo, daming pamparegla at kung ano-anong mga ugat na pampalaglag ng bata, bakit yon di nila masawata?

[antenna]

that's an ad that appeared in PDI. the questions is : will half truths sell? or will it fail?

[pian]

I think we need to distinguish between using contrceptive and abortion.

Abortion, the woman has already a living embryo or fetus inside of her, and it is remove due to some personal reasons.

Using contraceptive is a different one, you prevent the sperm and the egg to be united to prevent unwanted pregnancy. In this part, I don't see any killing of any human being, you are just preventing it to be one. Single cell level pa lang eto, you can't consider it as killing unlike abortion na talagang buo na at buhay na.

Let's be realistic in here, let's not act as hypocrites like the church, kahit anong gawin nilang teachings sa church, humans, like animals have animalistic instinct, and one of them is sex. Face it, it is a natural thing to do, with or without contraceptive. The bad thing here is, we need to control it, because the bigger our population gets, the poorer we become, the quality of life and the resources are affected drastically. The government should do something about it, our economy is affected by this population bloom. And hello, iba na ang generation natin ngayon, most are open-minded na, we need to teach our children the proper way to do it and when is the right time to do it, ng mabawasan ang curiosity nila at magawa ng tama, hindi natin sila mapipigilan pag ginusto nila, so to save their future and prevent unwanted pregnancies, we need to do this, sex education is one of the provisions of the bill.

Aminin man ng simbahan o hindi, pera ang isang dahilan nito, the church is too commercialize now. Mababawasan ang offerings nila. Saka teka, ayaw nila ng contraceptive, pero sa labas ng simbahan like sa Quiapo, daming pamparegla at kung ano-anong mga ugat na pampalaglag ng bata, bakit yon di nila masawata?

You're right about the distinction between contraceptives and abortion.
I'm merely clarifying why the church is vehemently against contraceptives, that it has nothing to do with money, but because artificial contraceptives prevent the formation of life.
At yung argument in favor of artificial contraceptives ay yun nga, they're the lesser evil than abortion of over 800k/yr.
Pag nalaman nila yung realidad na yan, artificial contraceptives would be the compromise.

[rickoshay]

The primary reason why the church is against artificial contraceptives is that they prevent life.

The argument for these artificial contraceptives would be they are the lesser evil than abortion of 800k/yr.

Artificial contraceptives preventing the formation of life is only an assumption. It is not sure whether without these artificial contraceptives, life will be formed. But it does make family planning easier. And the church is not against family planning.

[rickoshay]

The Bible is a good book.
But it is not the only book!*

*From Inherit The Wind

[albert_sy2]

Even the "natural method" that the church likes is supposed to prevent "the formation of life". So what's the difference with condoms and IUDs and the Pill? the supposed church contradicts itself an no one notices?!

THINK HARD!

[rickoshay]

No, no. What the church does not favor are those that prevents the formation of life by artificial means. Birth control by "restraint" is OK for them. Condoms, iud's, pills are artificial means of birth control.

[boogeyman]

You're right about the distinction between contraceptives and abortion.
I'm merely clarifying why the church is vehemently against contraceptives, that it has nothing to do with money, but because artificial contraceptives prevent the formation of life.
At yung argument in favor of artificial contraceptives ay yun nga, they're the lesser evil than abortion of over 800k/yr.
Pag nalaman nila yung realidad na yan, artificial contraceptives would be the compromise.

Unfortunately what is happening now is both sides are resorting to mudslinging instead of debating the RH Bill based on facts and logic. Many if not most of those who are against the RH Bill have resorted to branding its proponents as anti-life, pro-abortion, etc. - and vice versa.

Congress should take the lead in encouraging the different sides on the issue to engage in rational debate in Congress. Hindi dapat nagpapasimuno ang mga kongresista natin sa nangyayaring labeling. How can the public understand the merits and demerits of the bill and make informed decisions on whether or not to support it kung ganito ang nangyayari sa ngayon pa lang.

[boogeyman]

Even the "natural method" that the church likes is supposed to prevent "the formation of life". So what's the difference with condoms and IUDs and the Pill? the supposed church contradicts itself an no one notices?!

THINK HARD!

The Church is in favor of natural contraception. What it is against is artificial contraceptives because of the belief that these promote an abortion mentality.

[cool_ambo]

Unfortunately what is happening now is both sides are resorting to mudslinging instead of debating the RH Bill based on facts and logic. Many if not most of those who are against the RH Bill have resorted to branding its proponents as anti-life, pro-abortion, etc. - and vice versa.

Congress should take the lead in encouraging the different sides on the issue to engage in rational debate in Congress. Hindi dapat nagpapasimuno ang mga kongresista natin sa nangyayaring labeling. How can the public understand the merits and demerits of the bill and make informed decisions on whether or not to support it kung ganito ang nangyayari sa ngayon pa lang.

Oo nga ano?

Pero hindi ba ganyan din ang nangyayari sa atin dito sa PEx?

Puede na pala tayong mag-kongresista!

Hindi, puwera biro, sang-ayon ako sa sinabi mo, adre.

[cool_ambo]

Church laws are sourced from Canon Laws which are sourced from theology.

Our laws are sourced from morality, discipline, and order.

If the church would rather have us beget more children, then they should guarantee us the responsibility for caring for these children.

I'll bet this is the first time you've heard of this type of argument.

[drhenry4]

The bill clearly states that the state is against abortion.

What pro-lifers insist is that some of these artificial contraceptives are abortifacients, citing some medical studies. These people would even exaggerate the known side effects of these contraceptives. Most of the time, explanations are biased.

But let me lay some grounds here:
1. Yes, there are side effects from these contraceptives, like any other drugs available for illnesses. Even Paracetamol has side effects. But it must be noted that every medication that has to be taken must be directed by physician to minimize side effects, for no one can completely eliminate side effects.
2. There are scientifiic explanations that says that contraceptives may be abortifacient in the third line of prevention of pregnancy. Would this be immoral? I doubt since the primary aim of these contraceptives is the prevention of meeting of sperm and egg. And failure rates as being cited as the basis of contraceptives' abortifacient are failure rates of preventing pregnancy. It is not specific per se on the abortive property of the drug. Take note that what was measured in failure rates are live births.
3. Talking about rights. Everybody has rights even the right of a citizen to free access to family planning that must be offered by the govt since we are paying taxes. And not everybody believes what the priests of the Roman Catholic Church is teaching. While this country are majority Catholics (not necessarily Christian), many on the other hand are not. If this bill becomes a law, the state is not preventing the priests on teaching against artificial contraceptives, neither should the state prevent anyone else on what he would like to do for his family. So if a woman prefers using contraceptives promoted by the state, it is her choice and her right, even if she is a Catholic.

[SamLowry]

The bill clearly states that the state is against abortion.

What pro-lifers insist is that some of these artificial contraceptives are abortifacients, citing some medical studies. These people would even exaggerate the known side effects of these contraceptives. Most of the time, explanations are biased.

But let me lay some grounds here:
1. Yes, there are side effects from these contraceptives, like any other drugs available for illnesses. Even Paracetamol has side effects. But it must be noted that every medication that has to be taken must be directed by physician to minimize side effects, for no one can completely eliminate side effects.
2. There are scientifiic explanations that says that contraceptives may be abortifacient in the third line of prevention of pregnancy. Would this be immoral? I doubt since the primary aim of these contraceptives is the prevention of meeting of sperm and egg. And failure rates as being cited as the basis of contraceptives' abortifacient are failure rates of preventing pregnancy. It is not specific per se on the abortive property of the drug. Take note that what was measured in failure rates are live births.
3. Talking about rights. Everybody has rights even the right of a citizen to free access to family planning that must be offered by the govt since we are paying taxes. And not everybody believes what the priests of the Roman Catholic Church is teaching. While this country are majority Catholics (not necessarily Christian), many on the other hand are not. If this bill becomes a law, the state is not preventing the priests on teaching against artificial contraceptives, neither should the state prevent anyone else on what he would like to do for his family. So if a woman prefers using contraceptives promoted by the state, it is her choice and her right, even if she is a Catholic.

wow. you actually make sense on this issue. minus 2 moron points for you, doc!

If only you don't believe that man used to have an extra rib and the earth and universe was created in 6 days.