[MERGED] Cholelithiasis ( Gallbladder Stones )

[soul`rebel]

my mom had this "diet" for a week. natanggal stones niya, dinumi lang niya. very effective.

[asiastreak]

i've personally tried the liver flush. it was effective for me. I did the flush almost 3 years ago.
been suffering from those shoulder pains and pains in the abdomen, which were symptoms of gallstones, my ultrasound confirmed I had several cholesterol deposits which the doctors say would eventually become hard gall stones. and since the discomforts and sharp pains were persistent, I searched the web and decided to give the flush a go.

for 2-3 weeks, i included apple with my diet, fresh apples, and lots of apple juices after meals, they say that the malic acid in apple juices is effective in softening, if not at least shave off a few millimeters off the stones. I can't confirm this, but I hope it did!

then, that long weekend, I did the flush. I just followed the recipe, and afterwards, I didn't notice that much chaffs, there were a few, but not as many as the ones I've seen on their site. but the good thing is, the pains I've been having were all gone, and what's amazing was having a good sense of well being after the flush. I just felt good afterwards, I felt ...healthy!

the discomfort was all worth it. it would be nice if your room has a built in restroom, ensuite kumbaga. you would need several trips to the toilet kasi.

When you search the net, you would see several formula, the one I tried was the hulda clark's recipe... wala akong black tincture... but I made sure I have the epsom salts, which caused the diarrhea and the most impt. I think was the lemon and olive oil mix.

I'd say I recommend this, in fact, I intend to do another flush soon... and would probably do this on a regular basis. but still it would be best to proceed with caution... in particular those who have confirmed the existence of larger than normal stones.

[gellyace]

try this...i've done it personally and it's very simple and effective...

for 5 days drink 5-6cups apple juice. continue to eat the way you would normally do.

on the 6th day, follow the ff instructions:
1. nothing solid after 4pm
2. 6pm: take 1tsp epsom salt with 1cup warm water
3. 8pm: same as number 3
4. 10pm: drink 1/2 cup olive oil and 1/2 cup lemon juice.

apple juice softens the stones, epsom salt opens the "tubes" for the passage of the stones, lemon juice helps in pushing out the stones.

its better not to mix lemon juice and olive oil as the mixture will become slimy. expect to expel the stones throughout the following day. good luck!

[matulis]

The presence of gallbladder stones does not necesarlly require surgery. In fact 30% of the patients who die of some other disease have gallstones but are asymptomatic until the time of their death. Ergo, not all gallbladder with stones need to be removed. In fact I have had several patients with gallbladder stones and are asymptomatic who chose not to be operated and they are doing fine. However, if a patient complains of symptoms of gallbladder stone disease like abdominal pain, etc, the risk of developing complications will be higher. in these cases, surgery is an option. I prefer laparoscopic surgery.

In the Philippines, some patients with gallstones choose to have their gallbladders removed for peace of mind. Some even choose to have their gallbladders removed for overseas employment purposes. Agencies would tend to hire someone who will not be a potential patient abroad (as the cost of surgery is higher in other countries). This is acceptable as long as the patient understands and can weigh the benefits and risks of undergoing surgery.

[CoolCucumber]

I came across medical articles about this process. Flushing removes stones from these organs by drinking a homemade preparation.

Has anyone tried this Kindly share your experience/s here.

Here's one of those websites I was able to check out [click on the photos of them stones... eww!]:
http://www.angelhealingcenter.com/Li...h%20recipe.htm

[silkylace]

refer to thread # 105 .

[allan1977]

Saan nakakabili ng Epsom salts?

[matulis]

HERE IS MY TWO CENTS WORTH ON GALLSTONES AND LIVER/ GALLSTONE FLUSHING

Until now, there is no factual randomized scientific study that supports the use of all these liver flush method.

I have searched all databases including the US National library of Medicine, Medline and Google scholar, even Gastrointestinal journals (peer reviewed) have yielded no result pertaining to gallstone or liver flushing.

The only place available where the concoction is allegedly effective is several internet sites promoting alternative treatment. But then again, no basis is given.

Olive oil is fat. Fat will be absorbed in the intestines and brought to the liver where it will be metabolized. Fat also stimulates the intestines to release an enzyme called cholecystokinin which is a potent gallstone constrictor. If you have gallstones and you are symptomatic, the more likely that the pain you will exacerbate, and the more aggravated the condition will be.

Epsom salt is a form of Magnesium sulfate, which is has a laxative effect. Most of the action is limited in the lumen of your intestines. There is a risk for developing dehydration, nausea and vomitting and possibly magnesium overdose. Epsom salt is used in aroma therapy, bath additive. The sulfur is good for the skin. Incidentally Magnesium sulfate is also used for pesticides and a lot of other agro-industrial functions.

Apple juice is high in fiber. It has no cholesterol. Intake of apple or apple derivatives is good in a sense that it prevents the cholesterol in your food from being absorbed. Gallstones may be composed of cholesterol or bile pigments. In our country as well as most Asian nations, the big percentage of gallstones are made up of bile pigments and less of the cholesterol. So use of Apple is not likely to dissolve the stones.

Websites of gallstone flushing regimens showing pictures of gallstones as big as 2 cm recovered from the toilet is not true as they will never fit the very narrow bile ducts. Dissolving the stones into smaller size may put you at risk of having biliary obstruction leading to jaundice, fever, cholangitis.

The only known substance that may dissolve gallstones are te Bile Salts or bile acids. The drugs ursodiol (Actigall) and chenodiol (Chenix) work best for small cholesterol stones. Months or years of treatment may be necessary before all the stones dissolve. Both drugs may cause mild diarrhea, and chenodiol may temporarily raise levels of blood cholesterol and the liver enzyme transaminase.
And moreso, there is a high recurrence rate after stones are dissolved using these products.

Gallstones if asymptomatic (meaning no symptoms whatsoever) need NOT be treated. I have had several patients who have gallstones without symptoms, and they are OK until now. However, if you are experiencing symptoms like colicky abdominal pain or bloatedness, consider surgery. Patients who experimented with flushing technique and eventually gets operated on are likely to develop operative complications from adhesions due to a prolonged inflammed gallbladder.

Shockwave lithotipsy for gallstones is not advisable as the fragments miay occlude the bile ducts and cause obstruction, jaundice and cholangitis.

If you have serious inquiries about your gallstone, send me a PM. I will be happy to accommodate you.

[matulis]

I came across medical articles about this process. Flushing removes stones from these organs by drinking a homemade preparation.

Has anyone tried this Kindly share your experience/s here.

Here's one of those websites I was able to check out [click on the photos of them stones... eww!]:
http://www.angelhealingcenter.com/Li...h%20recipe.htm

I browsed the link above. After doing some background check, I realized that the 2 prominent authors of the flushing regimens listed are very controversial persona, bordering on the bogus

1. Dr. Hulda Clark PhD, not a doctor of medicine, found by the US FDA to have a bogus operation. Arrested in the US and moved to mexico where she was arrested again for scrupulous medical treatments. She advocates the use of Epsom Salt, Olive oil and grape fruit diet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulda_Regehr_Clark

2. Dr. William Donald Kelley DMD is an orthodontist by profession who turned into alternative medicine. He was wrongly diagnosed for pancreatic cancer and began taking raw fruits and vegetable diet. His claim to fame was when he allegedly teated actor Steve McQueen of Lung Mesothelioma. Doctors later found out that McQueen had Cancer and died even after the treatment by Dr. Kelley.
He eventually died miserable and paranoid. He advocates the use of Epsom Salt, cofee enema (lavativa), fruit and cream, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Donald_Kelley

I would not recommend trying the liver flushing regimens advocated by these two. Obviously a scam.

[allan1977]

I tried the flush on one of my patients. I ordered an ultrasound of the gallbladder before and after the flush. Two subcentimeter gallstones were seen in thegallbladder before the flush. Patient claimed passing green stones after the flush which he said are more than 20 subcentimeter stones. Post-flush ultrasound still showed the 2 gallstones.

Curently I had the patient take cholesterol lowering drugs since blood chem showed elevation of cholesterol as well as triglycerides and LDL. I also had the patient take Ursufalk which I hope can dissolve the stones if it is predominantly cholesterol.

[gentle_touchee]

i'm crying after reading this thread, and probably will for the rest of my life. i am still grieving and after reading this thread, it made me more sad.

but it is not the fault of this thread, not at all. i was just enlightened on so many things.

My father, 64 years old was operated on St. Luke's with "removal of gall bladder stone", before this, he is a very strong man, he is still working and travels to another place, 4 towns away from our residence in the province. he walks around alot too. in short, malakas pa talaga, mas malakas pa nga sakin, although he has high blood pressure.

so he was operated on in st.lukes which cost us a FORTUNE. we didn't mind the cost just as long as kampante kami na st. luke's yan, so magagaling ang mga doctors/facilities and kahit mamulubi kami ok lang mabuhay lang. but before this there was no indication or advise from the doctor that this operation is life threatening pala. i was not even there, i was away on holiday, kasi i was told na this is just a routine procedure.

so after the operation, he was in icu then to his room and after 2 days, out patient na agad. then after 2 weeks, ayun na, all of a sudden when he was about to go home to our province, he was taking a bath, assisted by my mom, he vomited daw with blood, and then he was rushed to the hospital, st.luke's again, and overnight lang by 4 a.m. he was gone.

when i learned the news my life has ended. the world stood still. excruciating PAIN in my heart. we trusted with St. Luke's but looked what happened. and that overnight, st. luke's charged 120-150K!!!

when we were not able to produce the money ng biglaang 120k (doctors was 30k, he waived it, so 120k nalang) they had his body held in their morge,. imagine.

i really think there was something fishy in that operation, kasi he was ok even after 14 days, then all of a sudden, bigla na lang nagcollapse.

Right now i am really anguished and emotionally affected. I am saying pa nga my father had deep respect for doctors that he wanted deeply to have her only daughter become a doctor too, so iginapang niya, (my sis is reviewing for the med board feb.2009).., i really sa kamay lang pala din siya ng doctor magaganoon na lang..i lost respect for doctors and i hate hospitals now.

[gentle_touchee]

I tried the flush on one of my patients. I ordered an ultrasound of the gallbladder before and after the flush. Two subcentimeter gallstones were seen in thegallbladder before the flush. Patient claimed passing green stones after the flush which he said are more than 20 subcentimeter stones. Post-flush ultrasound still showed the 2 gallstones.

Curently I had the patient take cholesterol lowering drugs since blood chem showed elevation of cholesterol as well as triglycerides and LDL. I also had the patient take Ursufalk which I hope can dissolve the stones if it is predominantly cholesterol.

See. there was something wrong talaga with St. Luke's and their doctor. Kasi my father went to Manila for check up, just two weeks before the operation, and then he was operated on na agad.

sa sinabi mo above as quoted, you had the patient undergo so many things/ medication muna before deciding for an operation. e yung sa st. luke's opera agad nasa isip siguro para magkapera siya!!

[intOit]

^^ oh my, natakot ako bigla sa story ng dad mo.

wala ba siya complication/s before the operation?

elective ba yung surgery niya or emergency?

kasi pag emergency mas mataas ang mortality rate compared to elective surgery.

after operation wala ba sya naging complication/s? stable ba siya?

open surgery ba or laparoscopic cholecystectomy yung procedure na ginawa sa kanya?

i'm not a doctor, pero feeling ko baka may tinamaan na ibang organ during the operation kaya ganon naging effect sa dad mo.

so after the operation, he was in icu then to his room and after 2 days, out patient na agad.

bakit sa icu siya after operation?

had my gallstones removed last may, through lap. chole. after ng operation 2 hours ako sa recovery room then balik na sa room ko. hinde ako dinala sa icu.

before ako operahan 2 days muna ako sa hospital, to check kung stable ba condition ko. etc.

monday ako inoperahan then wednesday discharged na ako. ok naman condition ko by that time. and up to now wala naman complication or wala naman ako nararamdaman na kakaiba.

ano pala sinabi na cause of death ng dad mo?

[smilewarrior]

^ @ gentle_touchee and intoit, if there is anyone here who can adequately shed light on your inquiries, it would be Dr. matulis. Please read his post ( post number 23).

Websites of gallstone flushing regimens showing pictures of gallstones as big as 2 cm recovered from the toilet is not true as they will never fit the very narrow bile ducts. Dissolving the stones into smaller size may put you at risk of having biliary obstruction leading to jaundice, fever, cholangitis.

The only known substance that may dissolve gallstones are te Bile Salts or bile acids. The drugs ursodiol (Actigall) and chenodiol (Chenix) work best for small cholesterol stones. Months or years of treatment may be necessary before all the stones dissolve. Both drugs may cause mild diarrhea, and chenodiol may temporarily raise levels of blood cholesterol and the liver enzyme transaminase.
And moreso, there is a high recurrence rate after stones are dissolved using these products.

Gallstones if asymptomatic (meaning no symptoms whatsoever) need NOT be treated. I have had several patients who have gallstones without symptoms, and they are OK until now. However, if you are experiencing symptoms like colicky abdominal pain or bloatedness, consider surgery. Patients who experimented with flushing technique and eventually gets operated on are likely to develop operative complications from adhesions due to a prolonged inflammed gallbladder.

Shockwave lithotipsy for gallstones is not advisable as the fragments miay occlude the bile ducts and cause obstruction, jaundice and cholangitis.

I'm not a medical doctor. I'm a dentist. I do know that having high blood pressure can predispose you to having either a stroke or a heart attack. Whether or not a patient needs to be confined to the ICU or not depends on the complexity of the procedure done and perhaps on the patients condition prior to surgery ( so perhaps the patient's age could also be a factor).

Since I'm a dentist, when it comes to medical matters, you'll have to take what I say with a grain of salt, or perhaps in this case a bucket of salt.

Hopefully, Dr. matulis will see your posts and reply to them.

[intOit]

^^ actually, curious ako kung ano talaga nangyari or naging cause of death ng dad niya.

kaya dami ko tanong. hehe.

kasi in my case, so far ok naman result ng operation ko.

sabi ko nga natakot ako sa story eh. i want to know kung dahil ba yun sa operation nya sa gallstones or what.

para if ever, matanong ko yung surgeon ko.

[allan1977]

See. there was something wrong talaga with St. Luke's and their doctor. Kasi my father went to Manila for check up, just two weeks before the operation, and then he was operated on na agad.

sa sinabi mo above as quoted, you had the patient undergo so many things/ medication muna before deciding for an operation. e yung sa st. luke's opera agad nasa isip siguro para magkapera siya!!

Maybe you're father was advised to undergo cholecystectomy because he was already undergoing colicky abdominal pains often, etc. related to gallstones. Did your father undergo imaging studies such as ultrasound or CT scan before he was advised to undergo operation? Since you're father is hypertensive, did he undergo CP clearance before operation to make sure that his body can handle the procedure?

Gallstones if asymptomatic are usually left alone and patients are advised to undergo diet & lifestyle modication as well as take some medication to prevent progression of the gallstones. Some patients can stay asymptomatic for 20-30 years even if they have gallstones. I usually don't advise my patients to undergo operation agad. I ask them to observe themselves & to undergo periodic ultrasound to monitor their gallbladder.

[b'LLabong]

Ang mama ko nadiagnose na may crystal daw sa gallstones nya, natry na yang mag antibiotics pero di pa rin sya gumagaling.

tanong ko lang sana kong saan pwede magpaopera na mura lang ang bayad. Tska magkano kaya un kong magpalaser.

[RougePercer]

My father suffered from gall stone too, ang ginawa tinanggal ang gall bladder kasi pag tinaggal mo lang yung stone magkakaroon pa rin yan eventually, yun nga lang my restrictions na sa mga pagkain for the first 8 months mga ganyan then after that pwede na kahit anong pagkain but provide moderations. Sa World Citi Medical Center sa cubao nagpa-opera father ko non kasi doon yung malapit nung nag faint siya dahil sa gall bladder stones.

[matulis]

Ang mama ko nadiagnose na may crystal daw sa gallstones nya, natry na yang mag antibiotics pero di pa rin sya gumagaling.

tanong ko lang sana kong saan pwede magpaopera na mura lang ang bayad. Tska magkano kaya un kong magpalaser.

Sent you a PM.

[MANNYP]

hi matulis:

please pm me din kung san mura ang bayad saka *** palaser.thnx.