students rejected at ADMU, DLSU, UP and UST : Where school did you go?

[cxzcxz]

I had to use Google translator for this response. This is a very realistic observation. Indeed, this is the reason that affirmative action should be abolished in the United States. A black applicant who has spent all of their years in a public high school in a predominately poor black neighborhood will have a difficult time fitting into Yale or another school where applicants have completely different experiences. True, there would be diversity but what could that black admittee take away with them once they graduate? Probably better for them to go to a local university that draws from the same people that survived and thrived in their ghetto environments.

very true. they are still discriminated by the whites

[cxzcxz]

wow, social climber, kainis !

o sige, pag graduate niya sa UAP or CSB, sigurado ang boss niya from FEU, CEU, etc.... tama ba ako ???

i don't think social climber, because rich talaga sila eh. and pag graduate nila from UA&AP or CSB they are the instant boss. coz their parents are the owner of this and that company. my friend lives in west greenhills imagine ang house dun are more than 20M, no doubt.

[christian5327]

i don't think social climber, because rich talaga sila eh. and pag graduate nila from UA&AP or CSB they are the instant boss. coz their parents are the owner of this and that company. my friend lives in west greenhills imagine ang house dun are more than 20M, no doubt.

It is okay because it is all relative. The person that is considered rich from West Greenhills would be just an average person here in Seattle. In fact, the small business owned by the family would be in danger here of being attacked by more nimble competitors. It is so fluid and dynamic in America that even successful businesses here can fail at any given time. GM is a prime example---this was the first corporation in the world to become a billion dollar company. A few years ago it went bankrupt.

P20 million is a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom house in a typical neighborhood OR a nice 2 bedroom 2 bathroom condo in a highrise.

[Kray0n]

It is okay because it is all relative...

you should understand your own statement and stop mindlessly comparing two completely different situations. 20 million pesos is typical for a house in seattle nowadays, so what?

[christian5327]

you should understand your own statement and stop mindlessly comparing two completely different situations. 20 million pesos is typical for a house in seattle nowadays, so what?

Explain why you think my statements are "mindless"? You miss the whole point. Sometimes, people will be exposed to environments where they no longer have the same identity. This might not matter at all for you so why bother even posting a response to my own response? How is the situation in the Philippines "completely different" from here in the United States---is it really just a matter of dollars and cents? So, it is so much of an alien environment over there that certain principles cannot be applied?

[christian5327]

you should understand your own statement and stop mindlessly comparing two completely different situations. 20 million pesos is typical for a house in seattle nowadays, so what?

What do you really know about Philippine history? I'll take you to task on every conclusory comment that you make.

[travelmate76]

i don't think social climber, because rich talaga sila eh. and pag graduate nila from UA&AP or CSB they are the instant boss. coz their parents are the owner of this and that company. my friend lives in west greenhills imagine ang house dun are more than 20M, no doubt.

siguro nga sila ang mga boss kagad pero may alam ba ang mga utak at capable bang magpatakbo ng negosyo, doon lamang ang mga graduate ng ibang schools

[fdsa2388]

It is okay because it is all relative. The person that is considered rich from West Greenhills would be just an average person here in Seattle. In fact, the small business owned by the family would be in danger here of being attacked by more nimble competitors. It is so fluid and dynamic in America that even successful businesses here can fail at any given time. GM is a prime example---this was the first corporation in the world to become a billion dollar company. A few years ago it went bankrupt.

P20 million is a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom house in a typical neighborhood OR a nice 2 bedroom 2 bathroom condo in a highrise.

christian5327, why would you compare a rich person here in philippines in seattle? the thing is cxzcxz here mentioned about his/her friend in greenhills with 20M its because with 20M house here is considered rich, and rich students would probably have difficulty to adjust in a typical local universities here. why not compare a person in seattle in tokyo?

[christian5327]

christian5327, why would you compare a rich person here in philippines in seattle? the thing is cxzcxz here mentioned about his/her friend in greenhills with 20M its because with 20M house here is considered rich, and rich students would probably have difficulty to adjust in a typical local universities here. why not compare a person in seattle in tokyo?

Because the culture of Japan is so vastly differenet than the Americanized culture of the Philippines. Although an amount such as P20 million has relative meaning between Seattle and Manila, the theme of people not fitting in regarding certain contexts are the same. Besides, the Japanese depend so heavily on a true entrance exam that determines a student's fate: with one test a Japanese student might be barred from attending university in Japan. Because the Philippines' higher education system is modeled after the United States' own system, there is no such thing as a do or die entrance exam. The problem I have with the higher education system in the Philippines is that the powers that be there have not followed the blueprint set by the Americans during the Commonwealth Period--the intention and purpose was to allow education to serve a few purposes including: 1. providing an equalizing force in a high stratified Hacienda society. 2. creating a well educated citizenry 3. Promoting education through government measures instead of the governmnet promoting brain drain.

[Lady Chablis]

I had to use Google translator for this response. This is a very realistic observation. Indeed, this is the reason that affirmative action should be abolished in the United States. A black applicant who has spent all of their years in a public high school in a predominately poor black neighborhood will have a difficult time fitting into Yale or another school where applicants have completely different experiences. True, there would be diversity but what could that black admittee take away with them once they graduate? Probably better for them to go to a local university that draws from the same people that survived and thrived in their ghetto environments.

This is a contentious issue. Affirmative action in college does not only create diverse student population, which I believe is desirable, but it gives ambitious, bright students from disadvantaged minority groups a chance and a helping hand to get first-rate education that arms them with knowledge to break the cycle of confinement to “living in ghetto environment.” I don’t think college quota system based on population’s ethnic and geographic representation is all that bad.

[christian5327]

This is a contentious issue. Affirmative action in college does not only create diverse student population, which I believe is desirable, but it gives ambitious, bright students from disadvantaged minority groups a chance and a helping hand to get first-rate education that arms them with knowledge to break the cycle of confinement to “living in ghetto environment.” I don’t think college quota system based on population’s ethnic and geographic representation is all that bad.

In the beginning of Affirmative Action, this was exactly the purpose behind it. However, what is happening is that Black grades and test scores have steadily declined since the start of this program while other groups' stats have risen. What does this mean? It means that blacks have a more difficult time competing and suviving in elite colleges. Also, who is not benefitting from Affirmative Action? Asians!

[Lady Chablis]

In the beginning of Affirmative Action, this was exactly the purpose behind it. However, what is happening is that Black grades and test scores have steadily declined since the start of this program while other groups' stats have risen. What does this mean? It means that blacks have a more difficult time competing and suviving in elite colleges. Also, who is not benefitting from Affirmative Action? Asians!

But the general U.S. trend of declining test scores is across the board, not just for black students. So, I don’t think your thoughts of abolishing college affirmative action based on “black’s declining test scores” and your conclusion that” blacks have a more difficult time competing and surviving in elite colleges” holds water. Although there are many variables to consider, what alarms me is the USA’s international test scores when pitted against the world. The 2010 International Reading, Math and Science Test scores show that American students aren’t even in the top 10 globally. In Math, the USA placed 30th on the list that was topped by China, Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea and Taiwan. In Science, the USA placed 20th on the list behind China, Finland, Hong Kong, Singapore and Japan. In Reading, China again led the top five and the USA falls in at 17th place. Yet, the U.S.A. tops the world in school spending. How do you explain this phenomenon?

[christian5327]

But the general U.S. trend of declining test scores is across the board, not just for black students. So, I don’t think your thoughts of abolishing college affirmative action based on “black’s declining test scores” and your conclusion that” blacks have a more difficult time competing and surviving in elite colleges” holds water. Although there are many variables to consider, what alarms me is the USA’s international test scores when pitted against the world. The 2010 International Reading, Math and Science Test scores show that American students aren’t even in the top 10 globally. In Math, the USA placed 30th on the list that was topped by China, Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea and Taiwan. In Science, the USA placed 20th on the list behind China, Finland, Hong Kong, Singapore and Japan. In Reading, China again led the top five and the USA falls in at 17th place. Yet, the U.S.A. tops the world in school spending. How do you explain this phenomenon?

Asian test scores and grades for certain subgroups such as Chinese, Indians, Koreans, even Filipinos have increased over the past 25 years. Also, the US system is a bifurcated system. Generally, the levels below tertiary level has been dismal for the past 50 years. At the university level, the government spends the most money on this national pride and joy. When one talks about the US lagging behind the world this generally does not mean the university level.

Already, certain jurisdictions have started to abolish affirmative action, instead opting for a process that is more merit based. The UC system has since experienced a huge increase in Asian American enrollment while Hispanic, especially black enrollments have plummeted. In the end, being judged by anything other than merit is the only thing that matters. Sadly, most schools must factor in politics and a host of other non-merit related issues. There is only one school in this entire country that chooses its students the way that UP and UP Law does--that school is CalTech---The California Institute of Technology.

Yes, black struggle in colleges where they are admitted through race based admissions instead of merit. They have lower graduating GPA's and have a higher drop out rate than other groups. In law school, the ABA is compelling certain schools to raise their LSAT averages which drives blacks away because their LSAT averages hover around a 143.

This is not to say that blacks do not deserve a chance to learn. I propose that they be given ample financial aid beyond loans as an incentive to enroll in schools that match their test scores and grades, which would give them a fighting chance at actually succeeding. So, blacks that have numbers that can legitimately get them admitted to the University of Virginia but instead are admitted to Yale through affirmative action should simply be allowed to enroll at the University of Virginia with a generous financial aid package.

[christian5327]

Also, you must understand that at the levels below university level, each local jurisdiction funds its own public schools through property taxes. So, public schools vary tremendously in quality added to the fact that the vast majority of this student population will never see the inside of a four year university though the statistics say that half of all high school graduates enroll in college. Really, this includes people that enroll in two year community colleges. The harsh reality is that the reason why the US does not lag at the university level besides vast sums for research is because the university system draws from more able students. In the end, even in America, only 30% have a four year degree from a college or university. The one issue though is that less Americans are earning PhD's in the hard sciences---they are being replaced by foreigners from Asia. Still, some of these Asians stay in the USA. Regardless, only a few people are required to undertake high level research in a given cutting edge field; this is exactly how the US maintains it technology lead in the world.

[Lady Chablis]

@ Christian 5327

There is then a serious flaw in the educational system of the U.S. that could jeopardize the pre-eminence of its tertiary educational institutions. Coming from dismally subpar primary and secondary educational system, how will these high school graduates tackle the rigors of college education, let alone postgraduate studies? At 30% college graduate rate, the U.S. is falling behind other countries. One of the reasons it has fallen behind is because it lagged in improving its pre-university educational system. That does not bode well in a global world and the increasing demand for a more sophisticated labor force combined with the growth of knowledge-based economies. Of course, the U.S. is still the most attractive destination for international students but that, too, is changing as it gets stiff competition from other countries notably from UK and Australia.

There is a demographic explanation for the “huge increase in Asian American enrollment at UC." The fastest growing ethnic group in California is Asian American. In the 2010 U.S. census, Asians constitute 13% of California’s population (Blacks or African Americans 6.2%, Hispanics or Latinos 37.6%), which reflects the huge increase in Asian Americans enrollment at UC system. The growth is mostly due to 1st generation immigrants. In the Los Angeles area, Asian American ethnic group constitutes 31.5% of the population, and Asian Americans constitute 36.5% of the student population at UCLA.

[christian5327]

@ Christian 5327

There is then a serious flaw in the educational system of the U.S. that could jeopardize the pre-eminence of its tertiary educational institutions. Coming from dismally subpar primary and secondary educational system, how will these high school graduates tackle the rigors of college education, let alone postgraduate studies? At 30% college graduate rate, the U.S. is falling behind other countries. One of the reasons it has fallen behind is because it lagged in improving its pre-university educational system. That does not bode well in a global world and the increasing demand for a more sophisticated labor force combined with the growth of knowledge-based economies. Of course, the U.S. is still the most attractive destination for international students but that, too, is changing as it gets stiff competition from other countries notably from UK and Australia.

There is a demographic explanation for the “huge increase in Asian American enrollment at UC." The fastest growing ethnic group in California is Asian American. In the 2010 U.S. census, Asians constitute 13% of California’s population (Blacks or African Americans 6.2%, Hispanics or Latinos 37.6%), which reflects the huge increase in Asian Americans enrollment at UC system. The growth is mostly due to 1st generation immigrants. In the Los Angeles area, Asian American ethnic group constitutes 31.5% of the population, and Asian Americans constitute 36.5% of the student population at UCLA.

The huge increase in Asian American enrollment at the UC campuses is because of Proposition 209. In 1996, the face of California's higher education system changed because the state abolished racial preferences for its public schools. Prior to 1996, Asians were already overrperesented on UC's major college campuses. At any rate, I have to make clear that 30% is the number of people in the US aged 25 and over who have at LEAST a BA or BS, which is still the highest percentage in the world only because there are over 1,000 four year universities in the USA. Some of these schools have virtually open admissions meaning that they will admit almost everyone that is a high school or even a GED graduate. The graduation rate itself has hovered around 50-60% for the past 30 years.

However, it is true that there is a huge flaw in the system. Even some of the most able students come unprepared. There are remedial Math and Writing classes even at the freshman level for many universities here. Every other ethnic group except the major Asian nationalities here become more unprepared as time goes on. The black situation in this country is getting worse with regard to education. Currently the number of blacks that possess at least a BA or BS ages 25 and over is 14%, which was the mainstream rate of attainment in 1968.

I am not sure what will happen when all of these foreigners from Asia who earn hard science PhD's decided to take their knowledge and skills elsewhere. The only reason why some of them stay in order to contribute to cutting edge research is because of the first rate facilities brought about by more than ample funding along with the standard of living here. However, what happens in a future where the United States is no longer able to sustain its system because of crushing debt? At $17 trillion today, I wouldn't be surprised if this number exceeded $30 trillion in 2035. At that point, the interest payments alone would cause certain programs to be less funded. This would lead to the original flaw of students here being unprepared. There might come a point someday when universities here are no longer considered world class because of a lack of funds, meaning foreign talent will dry up.

[christian5327]

As for racial discrimination, for your own entertainment, please read the classic situation of
Regents of the University of California v. Bakke, which thankfully is available on wikipedia. You can probably google Bakke's life and what eventually happened to him as well.

[Lady Chablis]

In the aftermath of Proposition 209, the percentage of minority (Blacks, Asians and Latinos) admissions to UC exceeds that of pre-Proposition 209 periods, while the Whites percentage declined from 44% to 34%. It looks like Whites were beneficiaries of the Affirmative Action for college admissions more than the minorities. How do you explain that?

[christian5327]

In the aftermath of Proposition 209, the percentage of minority (Blacks, Asians and Latinos) admissions to UC exceeds that of pre-Proposition 209 periods, while the Whites percentage declined from 44% to 34%. It looks like Whites were beneficiaries of the Affirmative Action for college admissions more than the minorities. How do you explain that?

The black enrollment in the UC system actually declined. Texas also abolished big pieces of their affirmative action policies which resulted in lower black enrollments at UT Austin's school of law. For the UC system, all you have to do is take a look at the enrollment figures provided by Berkeley and UCLA on their own websites. As for the Hispanic percentages, the UC system experienced mixed results.

The White percentages declined for two reasons: prior to 209, whites could hope for admission under programs that were designed for white students from poor backgrounds. Since this program coat tailed on affirmative action, it was taken away. So, because of the current Supreme Court rulings in the past several years, schools can use race as a small part of a holistic view of a student. However, California stands by their guns on 209. Second, without any affirmative action, it means that Asians with high SAT scores and high GPA's were no longer being rejected summarily because of quota concerns. The percentage increase in Asians partly mirrors the percentage decrease in Whites during the same period.

Before 209 in California and even to a certain extent in some jurisdictions of the country especially certain private schools, Chinese, Koreans, Indians, Filipinos would have a better chance at admission if they omitted their race on the application by not checking any boxes though it is difficult for someone with an Asian surname to get away with it such as Chang or Raj.

As for Filipinos, they are a mixed bag. On some applications they can list themselves as Hispanics, which ironically improves their chances of admissions in schools that use race as a factor. The Supreme Court simply stated that quotas are illegal. Still, in certain parts of the country outside of the SouthWest and Texas, Hispanics are in short supply.

On a personal note, I could have easily played the race card and gotten preferential treatment at least in some parts of the country. How so? I realize that Filipinos have the ISCF syndrome but in my case it is actually true. I literally have one drop of Spanish blood which makes me Hispanic and it can be documented. It would be my great great great grandfather on my mother's side. Otherwise, the other two categories of Filipino and Chinese, especially Chinese, do not help my chances at all for anything. Why did I not take advantage of this and still decided against it? It is because there are others out there that have worked hard and have earned a place in whatever incoming class is out there. So, all my credentials I earned on my own without any help from any programs. At the same time, I am aware of the brutal reality that if I had been born black and FEMALE I would have received FULL RIDE scholarships to one of the lesser Ivy League schools and stronger state schools. Then again, such is life.

[christian5327]

So, if blacks are being shut out from a more competitive UC system where are they going? Some of them are going to private schools that still use race as a factor that is bigger than the small factor it would have in a holistic view application process. Others are spilling over into the California State system, which is less competitive compared to the UC system. At any rate, blacks that elect to stay in-state are actually going to schools that their earned credentials qualify them for, which is good because it means that they will be competing with others that have a similar number range of credentials, meaning that they are less likely to drop out or flunk out.

Remember, in most universities here grades are determined relative to other students. I would not necessarily call it a curve because that implies half over and half under a median. However, when people of similar caliber are competing against each other, it means that everyone has a chance at succeeding, which is unlike a situation where someone is competing with students that are clearly better students. The results in the latter case become nightmarish.