9-11 Was An Inside Job...

[parvus1202]

Ok, I believe you, pero ang bobobobo pala ng mga kasamahan mo.

[leon azcarraga]

Well you should find a way to view those videos, find someone with a broadband connection or something. The second video pretty much will answer your questions regarding on why 3 reinforced steel structures dissolved to dust, not because of fire or heat, because the fires did not even reach the temperatures needed to melt or even weaken steel, but because of charges/explosives set at the primary joints of the building. A controlled demolition. Any one who will view the videos and watch the collapses over and over can agree. Controlle demolition. Thats why the buildings fell the way they fell. And numerous scientific independent studies have been done by respected scientists, that so far have been ignored by the mainstream media, and worse ridiculed by the media and government and calling these honest people nutcases and terrorist sympathizers, for simply questioning the official story of 911!! As to who perpetrated this, your guess is as good as mine, but it sure as hell wasnt because of 19 arab amatuers armed with box cutters! Find a way to watch those videos especially the second one if you want to go technical. Believe me its worth it.

I guess your right, its a mistake plunging in without the details.
Oxy-acetylene was an example.

Well it must be like a burning furnace inside the building, an oven like inferno.

What was the speed ( top speed of those 2 planes ) when it rammed to the twin towers? The impact for sure was a factor???

Which floors the south and north tower got hit???

The fire gutted floors or portion in a way disconneted the top from below

How heavy... according to their analysis, the top load mass above the fire???

Freefall ( heat) friction of the debris may have something to do ...with the pulverizing effect, and to reach melting point of steel.

How many tons of solid debris? Has anyone use a bench grinder tool or power tools? or panghasa ?

Thanks for the info

[faux_ph]

Without getting too technical with all this jargon and mumbo jumbo, I think what you are referring to is akin to a pancake collapse of the two towers, which is the official story and parrotted by the mainstream media. Again this theory is being questioned by many scientists in the 911 truth movement, and it even falls apart when you take into consideration all the blatant clues that lead it to being a controlled demolition rather than a pancake collapse. You have the rate and speed of the collapse, a mind boggling 9 to 10 seconds for each tower, with completely no regard for the resistance of the lower floors, you have the complete disappeance of the massive core structure of the towers, composed of 47 massive core steel beams which should have been left standing in the air if indeed this was a pancake collapse of the floors, you have the thermate residue found on the samples studied by professor jones, a clear indicator that explosives were used, you have the molten steel found underneath the rubble in the lower basements that continued to burn weeks after the collapse, another indicator of the use of explosives, you have the numerous eyewitness testimonies from firefighters, policemen and workers of the building who all say there were explosives in the buildings, this and so much more damning evidence that point out a controlled demolition of the towers. Plus the smoking gun of it all, World trade center 7 was the third building to collapse and it was never hit by a plane!! The videos i linked completely show all this evidence and proves that the official story cannot stand up to the science behind it all. Watch the videos.

surprisingly, what I just discussed procedure on simulating the collapse of the building do not really match with the collapse that the world perceived in the WTC. In other words, yeah I totally agree with your proposition. The localized failure of elements in the vicinity of the plane crash,explosion and fire would only render the floors above fail in a leaning manner/behavior ( imagine a leaning tower of Pisa then superimpose that on the level where the plane hit), which will eventually fall to the ground and the floors below the fire should still be standing. That would have been more disastrous dahil babagsakan ang mga katabing buildings ng halos kasinlaking building and the impact to the ground would create a localized ground shaking sufficiently strong enough to be noticed by accelerographs! Progressive collapse (pancake collapse) is a precision method of demolition. That's why after a few hours of contemplating when I first saw the video of WTC falling down 5 years ago, sabi ko there must be something wrong with the behavior of collapse.

[geohunk]

I guess your right, its a mistake plunging in without the details. Ordrered a broad 3 days ago. still awaiting.

Oxy-acetylene was an example.

Well it must be like a burning furnace inside the building, an oven like inferno.

What was the speed ( top speed of those 2 planes ) when it rammed to the twin towers? The impact for sure was a factor???

Which floors the south and north tower got hit???

The fire gutted floors or portion in a way disconneted the top from below

How heavy... according to their analysis, the top load mass above the fire???

Freefall friction of the debris may have something to do ...with the pulverizing effect and melting point of steel

How many tons of solid debris

Yeah, wait for that broadband connection and watch those videos. Now for me to answer those questions would take up to much scope in here so i suggest you watch those videos and also i'll direct you to this paper by professor steven jones of BYU : http://worldtradecentertruth.com/vol...Department.pdf
that should pretty much cover some of your questions.

Now regarding your query of the temperatures inside the building, if it was like a burning furnace in there..it was absolutely not. And this is one of the misconceptions about the events. Most of the fuel from both airplanes were spent up or burned in the initial fireball that was caused upon impact in the buildings. And that fireball happenned outside the buildings as seen in the videos. Still there was a couple of fires in the impact zone, but they were not burning hot enough or widespread enough as the official version says. Videos of the burning buildings show that it was not an inferno at all, but mostly black smoke. Now if you are aware, black smoke is an indicator that the what you have here is an oxygen starved fire, thus the black smoke. Look it up. Also numerous news camera captured people/survivors who were standing right inside the holes calling for help. If indeed it was like a furnace in there, how can people be standing in those holes waving for help?? Also, recently released recordings of the communication dispatches of the firemen who actually climbed all the way up to the impact zone, stated that there were only 2 isolated pockets of fire, and that they should be able to take them out with just two water lines!! All this is exlained in the videos.

[geohunk]

surprisingly, what I just discussed procedure on simulating the collapse of the building do not really match with the collapse that the world perceived in the WTC. In other words, yeah I totally agree with your proposition. The localized failure of elements in the vicinity of the plane crash,explosion and fire would only render the floors above fail in a leaning manner/behavior ( imagine a leaning tower of Pisa then superimpose that on the level where the plane hit), which will eventually fall to the ground and the floors below the fire should still be standing. That would have been more disastrous dahil babagsakan ang mga katabing buildings ng halos kasinlaking building and the impact to the ground would create a localized ground shaking sufficiently strong enough to be noticed by accelerographs! Progressive collapse (pancake collapse) is a precision method of demolition. That's why after a few hours of contemplating when I first saw the video of WTC falling down 5 years ago, sabi ko there must be something wrong with the behavior of collapse.

Well, at least there are some people in here who have an open mind about these issues and know how to use their critical thinking skills and common sense, than most of the other arrogant posters in here. I advice you to watch the videos i linked on the first page of this topic, especially the second one for a detailed analysis of the collapse. Here is also a link to the work of professor Steven Jones:
http://worldtradecentertruth.com/vol...Department.pdf

[parvus1202]

Masyado concentrated iyung mga mythologists sa building pero wala sila sinasabi sa mga taong nang hijacked. Tapos "Melt" ang ginamit na salita hindi "Soften" para tumaas ang degrees ng over 3000C. Nagpalabas ba sila ng imbestigasyon sa mga fanatics? Sa Hamburg, Germany kung saan nabuo ang plano? Kasi hindi sila makakapaglabas ng conspiracy theory duon, kasi puro facts iyun, kaya concenntration nila sa building na lang. Ako kaya ko rin maglabas ng theory, Lolo ko nagpasabog sa WTC. hehehe, binuhusan niya ng kerosin tapos inantay niya iyung mga terrorists, tapos sinindihan niya ng posporo de palito pito, ayos, bagsak ang WTC. Hehehe.

[geohunk]

Masyado concentrated iyung mga mythologists sa buliding pero wala sila sinasabi sa mga taong nang hijacked. Tapos "Melt" ang ginamit na salita hindi "Soften" para tumaas ang degrees ng over 3000C. Nagpalabas ba sila ng imbestigasyon sa mga fanatics? Sa Hamburg, Germany kung saan nabuo ang plano? Kasi hindi sila makakapaglabas ng conspiracy theory duon, kasi puro facts iyun, kaya concenbntration nila sa building na lang. Ako kaya ko rin maglabas ng theory, Lolo ko nagpasabog sa WTC. hehehe, binuhusan niya ng kerosin tapos inantay niya iyung mga terrorists, tapos sinindihan niya ng posporo de palito pito, ayos, bagsak ang WTC. Hehehe.

Parvus, i dont like to go into name calling, but your comments make you look like a confused little child. Of course its important to look at the collapse of the buildings. WHy? for the simple fact that if you are able to look into the manner at how this was achieved, question the obvious lies of the official investigation, then you will be able to see who actually has the motives, who actually benefitted more from this! Your arguments and comments cant even hold up in front of a jury in a court trial. It looks like you havent had the time to watch the videos i linked. Please do. Especially the the third one, because since you like to bring up the notion of terror planning in germany, that third video will give you a basic course on the facts of state sponsored terrorism and false flag operations. Get your facts straight. Of course your too narrow minded to. You claim that what is being stated here is just crazy conspiracy fluff, but you ignore the clear scientific evidence, done by legitimate, respected engineers and scientists, all documented and put in public for the world to see. Now i'm not saying who is really responsible for 911, but when you look at all the Facts, look at the evidence revealed in the videos, then it becomes painfully obvious what the conclusion would be.
Nevertheless, you never fail to amuse, and ur bantering is colorful and entertaining.

[parvus1202]

In court?? Dalhin nyo yang theory nyo sa UN at idemanda nyo na USA. E di tapos na. Pinipilit nyo yang tsismis theory nyo eh. Kung naniniwala kyo dyan, di maniwala kayo. Ako hindi. Idemanda nyo na USA. Mahigit 3000 namatay dyan.

[faux_ph]

Well, at least there are some people in here who have an open mind about these issues and know how to use their critical thinking skills and common sense, than most of the other arrogant posters in here. I advice you to watch the videos i linked on the first page of this topic, especially the second one for a detailed analysis of the collapse. Here is also a link to the work of professor Steven Jones:
http://worldtradecentertruth.com/vol...Department.pdf

it comes with the territory and profession which obviously is structural engineering. Nonlinear time-history analysis has been an interest and I've been studying it for quite some time now and developing hands-on skill on doing it. It's a lucrative skill!

[altair]

parvus1202

I suggest you watch CSI. hehehe
or Macgyver

[geohunk]

In court?? Dalhin nyo yang theory nyo sa UN at idemanda nyo na USA. E di tapos na. Pinipilit nyo yang tsismis theory nyo eh. Kung naniniwala kyo dyan, di maniwala kayo. Ako hindi. Idemanda nyo na USA. Mahigit 3000 namatay dyan.

haha..obviously you are not aware of the 911 Truth Movement are you? And as a matter of fact, steps are being made by this growing movement to do just that, and call for an independent re-investigation of 911. But unfortunately this isnt as easy as it seems. Why? Because until now no thanks to the mainstream media which is being controlled by interconnected groups of powerful people within military and government, it is taboo to talk about such things because of the sensitivity of the matter ,and doing so would brand you as a dissenter and terrorist sympathizer. Many public officials, academics, engineers and scientists who disagree with the official view, have been threatened of being fired from their jobs, or even humiliated and demoted because of their views, by their superiors and peers. Luckily, this is slowly changing and quite a few government officials in the US have taken a stand and begun looking into this Movement. Allthough its still a long mountain to climb, efforts are being made and peoples beliefs have been swayed.
If you wish not to believe in any of this, then thats fine, your entitled to your decision. But of course, if narrow minded people continue to attack honest people who have legitimate questions and provable, sound scientific arguments then we have the right to defend our beliefs and prove those wrong. Sadly people like you refuse to debate us on the facts, and instead put up flimsy arguments and resort to namecalling like calling people mythmakers. So your actually dismissing the new recent findings by respected individuals that prove the official story is the real MYTH? Sir, none of us are mythmakers. If you call sound scientific investigations such as the ones I have referenced in the links here by academics and engineers as mythmaking, then you sir are living in a very small world.

[parvus1202]

Ok na yan. Kapag pumasok na yan sa corte, susubaybayan ko yan. Don't give excuses na kaya hindi madala sa corte ay dahil sa mga mahihiwagang galamay. Marami namatay na citizen sa ibang bansa, puede nyo na yan hikayatin na idemanda ang USA. Ikaw ang narrow minded, hindi pa napapatunayan sa corte yang theory nyo pinalagay nyo nang tama. At saka hindi naman legitemate question nyo yun, conclution nyo na yun. May video pa ng building na nasusunog bakit hindi raw bumaksak, e tinamaan ba ng 747?
Legitimate question ko yun ha. Ibalita mo sa akin kapag nasa corte na. Subaybayan natin pareho. Kapag tama hakahaka nyo na pakana yan ng USA, sama ko sa inyo, kapag hindi, sama kayo sa amin.

[altair]

parvus1202
I give up on you. You are hopeless, unless brain transplant becomes viable.

re: 911

I don't want the responsible group punished.

I would want bush's cabal to rule america for the next 50 years, nya hahahaha!

[geohunk]

Ok na yan. Kapag pumasok na yan sa corte, susubaybayan ko yan. Don't give excuses na kaya hindi madala sa corte ay dahil sa mga mahihiwagang galamay. Marami namatay na citizen sa ibang bansa, puede nyo na yan hikayatin na idemanda ang USA. Ikaw ang narrow minded, hindi pa napapatunayan sa corte yang theory nyo pinalagay nyo nang tama. At saka hindi naman legitemate question nyo yun, conclution nyo na yun. May video pa ng building na nasusunog bakit hindi raw bumaksak, e tinamaan ba ng 747?
Legitimate question ko yun ha. Ibalita mo sa akin kapag nasa corte na. Subaybayan natin pareho. Kapag tama hakahaka nyo na pakana yan ng USA, sama ko sa inyo, kapag hindi, sama kayo sa amin.

Haha..sure that will be the day. But like I said, efforts are being made..and again these people in the movement bring up sound arguments that are all scientifically provable. And its funny how you say that we dont bring up legitimate questions and yet we come up with conclusions?? As a matter of fact, if you even have a copy of the official 911 comission report (google it) and read it through and through, you'll be surprised how many holes are in it. Its painfully obvious that the officials who wrote this were the ones who started out with a pre-conceived conclusion, worked there way backwards, got and in some cases fabricated the evidence to make it fit their story, throw away the evidence that didn't (obviously most of it) and rammed it down our throats and branding anyone who questions it dissenters. You bring up burning buildings that do not collapse because no airplanes hit it. If you even had ears to listen to the explanations in those videos, they would tell you that the two towers were made in such a way that it could sustain multiple airplane crashes and still stand!! And yes a building, the Empire State building, in the 1940s waS hit by a B-52 bomber, sustained multiple fires, but did not collapse. World Trade center 7 was not hit by a airplane and yet it collapsed, no less because of controlled demolition. Again i ask you listen to the explanations in those videos.
Yes many people died that day, and many of the families of those people who died have voiced their discontent on the official version of the story. I guess you were not aware of that. As well as the numerous eyewitness testimony by survivors, firemen, and policemen who were there, who believed it was explosives, and not the fires or airplane crashes that brought down the towers. So many things to explain. But of course im not expecting you to believe in any of it, so yeah.
And yet you throw back at me that im the one who is narrow-minded. I guess i forgot to mention that at first, yes, I believed in the official story at first. But I woke up. I researched on why my gut instincts told me the collpases looked wrong. I wanted to see if there was any truth to these so called "conspiracies" and prove these crazy guys wrong. And you know what after years of looking into it, corroboration with other people and the science behind it all, the official line didnt add up. So i dont know how you can call someone whose seen both sides of the story narrow minded.

[parvus1202]

Altair, I give on you too. You are hopeless. Top 5 ka pa naman. Nasa Korea ka pa naman. Marami ka pa naman babae dyan. tsk tsk. Tama na nga aantayin ko na lang sa corte. Tapos saka na tayo magbaligtaktakan. geohunk, kung sasagot ka, iyung maiksi lang. Ang haba e, parang ala kang magawa dyan sa inyo eh. Asan ka ba? Akala ko ako lang ang nakababad sa internet, marami pala.

[turmoil]

How did the lobby windows get blown out? The building swayed upon impact as it was designed to so I cannot accept that it was the impact that caused this..Yet!
Also,people in the building attested to the FACT that heavy construction work was being carried out in a floor above. A floor that the elevators were not given access to..How hard would it be to trace the so called contractors that were working there on those particular days to confirm what type of work they were undertaking there?
What I gather from the video is that "workmen" were seen carring spools of wire into the building that was supposed to be fibre optic wire for the buildings IT systems..
Who and how many would possibly carry out this work with explosives knowing full well how many people they were about to murder??
This is where the whole thing begins to fall down. (forgive the pun)
The woman in the video also failed to mention the theory of why the government knew of the attack perhaps two or three weeks in advance..

So to edit my previous post a little..They got me HOOK LINE but no SINKER..
Just yet anyway.

[leon azcarraga]

Just about to crumble ?
Does the photo suggests... the collapse started from the bottom?


Do the steel structures look strong enough for collision impact, lets say from a 500 kilometers/hour speeding plane torpedoes? Yes, it has withstand the lateral force of impact. But with...weakened steel structures from heat, later on, Then... how can it hold the loose weight of the thousand tons concrete?

Take note of those small horizontal mounting pads (welded), with holes, (for bolts i supposed ). Connecting points of horizontal beam to vertical structures. Then you pour in thousand tons of cement.

Does it look shock and heat proof ?

Can bolts and nuts hold the top weight?

The 30-40 storeys worth of leverage on top, snap those column connection pad like biscuits ( maybe... )

The tensile strenght of the steel structures, were (obviously) affected, by the impact, explosion ( jet fuel ),heat, loose weight of concrete.

[geohunk]

Just about to crumble ?
Does the photo suggests... the collapse started from the bottom?


Does the steel structures look strong enough for collision impact, lets say from a 500 kilometers/hour speeding plane torpedoes? Yes, it has withstand the lateral force of impact. But with a weakened steel structures from heat later on, Then... how can it hold the loose weight of the thousand tons concrete?

Take note of those small vertical mounting pads (welded), with holes on shadows(for bolts i supposed ) connecting points of vertical beam to horizontal structures. Then you pour in thousand tons of cement.

Does it look shock and heat proof ?

Can it hold the top weight?

The 30-40 stories worth of leverage on top, snap those column connections like twigs !

The tensile strenght of the steel structure was (obviously) affected, by the impact, heat, loose weight of concrete, and most of all by insanity. ooops.

You give a good argument, but you fail to indicate the INNER CORE structure of the towers. The towers were not hollow tubes, with stacks of floors in it as you seem to indicate. The towers had a very strong core composed of 47 steel beams, that was essentially the backbone of the structures. Plus, the engineers who designed the structures went on record stating that the towers could withstand multiple airplane collisions. The 747 that struck the towers was compared to a pencil puncturing the mosquito netting on your screen doors, it practically does nothing to the structure and underlying support columns, as well as the massive core of the buildings. Plus you have to take into account the speed of the collapse, 9 seconds!! That is free fall speed in the path of most resistance! How can that be?! A pancake collapse slows down, and never gains speed, and yet these 3 buildings fell at a rate as if falling through thin air. Indeed the Law of physics was suspended that day. The only explanation to this is controlled demolition. Please watch the videos, look at the paper i linked by professor steven jones:
http://worldtradecentertruth.com/vol...Department.pdf and here is another excellent analysis of the collapse:
http://www.public-action.com/911/jmcm/physics_1.html

Please watch the videos.

[geohunk]

Here's another in depth analysis of the collapse of the towers if any of you want to get technical:http://www.public-action.com/911/jmcm/physics_1.html

[bondying]

altair and geohunk... a peek at the intelligence or technical expertise of parvus1202.

http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/...d.php?t=272826

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