The Holiness of Catholicism

[Deus]

In the various denominations of Christianity, and also in Islam, it is a well known fact that Catholicism is a religion inspired by no less than God himself, where they teach how to follow and worship God. This short exposé is just the tip of the iceberg, and this lists only include the more obvious ones we see everyday. I am very sure that there are better issues that can be exposed by other people who are nearer the Truth.

1. Catholics are good artists. They put alot of artistic works in their Bassilicas like painting and statues. Catholics knows that God is present everywhere, however the silent atmosphere of these churches makes them appropriate place for prayer and meditation.


2. The Catholic Church is the bearer of the original confilation of writings which we called the Bible. Therefore they are the ones who has access in the truth based on the original.

3. Catholic schools, colleges, and universities are for everyone. All of them offeres scholarship for the poor. Even some parishes has scholarship grants.

4. They innovate too many practical things in religion.

a. All religions have priests, and there are priests in old testament. Peter became the First Pope and the apostles became bishops.

b. The Trinity, there are various reference about it in OT and NT.

c. Priests not being allowed to marry following the advice of St. Paul.

d. Christmas Day and other catholic holidays,
e. Processions
f. Fiestas
d,e,f are just celebrations, God didn't forbid them.

g. Not worshipping Saint's relics, they are just work of art.

h. Having the believers pay for every religious service they perform such as Baptism, Matrimony, Confirmation, Extreme Unction, Funeral Masses and others, which is necessary to support the "matter" of these sacraments.


Catholics never attack other religions. All they do is to defend when they are being attacked. Have you ever heared any Catholic theologian saying that this religion is wrong, that religion is evil. No one do this. All they do is to say, "No we are not worshipping icons." They only defend and explain, but never attacked. Because they follow the teachings of Christ. "It is not eye for an eye or tooth for a tooth. Instead if you were slap on your right cheek, give the left."

I do not abhor those who are attacking Catholics. I know they are the primary victims of the so called "Dark Ages." However past is past, let us remember the history but forget the quarrels of our ancestors. Religious wars (yes I call these attacks on faith "religious war") won't bring peace to humanity, and God our Father doesn't want his children to fight. Much more if some people make God himself the reason to fight.

[MEM]

(a. All religions have priests, and there are priests in old testament. Peter became the First Pope and the apostles became bishops.)

In the OT, we have priests, but in the NT, Christ is the High Priest as written in

Hebrews 8:1-3
"The point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man. Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer."

He is the only mediator between God and Man, Priests and Mary are not included as written in

1 Timothy 2:5
"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."


(b. The Trinity, there are various reference about it in OT and NT.)

Various references?? The word itself cannot be found in the OT and NT, how can it be?

(c. Priests not being allowed to marry following the advice of St. Paul. )

Did Apostle Paul forbid Priests to marry? He even warned Timothy that some will follow the teachings of demons thus forbidding to marry as written in

1 Timothy 4:1-3
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth."

The real advice of St. Paul to those who wants to be bishops and deacons is this:

1 Timothy 3:1-13

Qualifications of Overseers/Qualifications of Church Officers
"1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A BISHOP THEN MUST BE BLAMELESS, THE HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5(for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."


Qualifications of Deacons
"8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, 9holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. 10But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. 11Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. LET DEACONS BE THE HUSBANDS OF ONE WIFE, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. "


And that is the BIBLICAL ADVICE OF PAUL. He said that the Bishops and Deacons must be THE HUSBANDS OF ONE WIFE!

(Catholics never attack other religions.)

Did Catholics never attack other religions?

Remember HISTORY? During the Council of Trent (325AD) up to the year 600AD. The Catholic Church had ordered the authority to kill by burning the people if they don't believe the TRINITY.

Remember Joan of Arc? What did they do to her?

Remember during the Protestant Reformation (1517-1546)? The Catholic Church had also ordered that those who will be PROTESTANTS will be put to death burning them. Especially in England. Did you watch the movie "Elizabeth". I really feel sorry for those people who sacrificed their lives just for the sake of their faith in God.


DEUS: Use biblical verses to support your idea. Don't use your own opinion in protecting Catholicism. Why? because the scripture clearly states that only those fools expresses their own opinion when it comes to God's religion, Christianity as written in

Proverbs 18:2
"A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions."

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you, DEUS!

AMEN!

[silver surfer]

Hi MEM!! Kamusta ka na?!! Still bashing the Catholic religion, I see. Still plucking words from the bible to defend your point, I see. You wanna play hardball? I'm game. Ehehehe.

[alikabok]

MEM, again pls read the last paragraph by DEUS,

I do not abhor those who are attacking Catholics. I know they are the primary victims of the so called "Dark Ages." However past is past, let us remember the history but forget the quarrels of our ancestors. Religious wars (yes I call these attacks on faith "religious war") won't bring peace to humanity, and God our Father doesn't want his children to fight. Much more if some people make God himself the reason to fight.

yes it happened in the past. but it was the past. and because of that, a lot of diff religions spawned from christianity/catholicism. in fact the pope (JP) personally apologized for the abuses made by the early catholic church clergies. well like the protestants, the religion gave birth primarily because of the popes/bishops' abuse of of power. *fast forward*, in the year 2000, the pope, no longer have the power they used to have in the govt. i know the word "protestants" was labeled by catholic church to the followers of Martin Luther and the gang but what would they call themselves now?

so the last time catholics attacked other religions was 325AD and 1517-1546. that time, ni wala pang mga "filipinos" . valid pa ba yan mem?

well guess what mem, time has change and everything has changed. i guess the only logical reason why priests are not allowed to marry is because he will not be able to perform these religious services if they have the burden of a family. full time servant kumbaga. a family man and a bachelor has lot of difference. dig mo ba?

the issue about trinity? since di ako theologian like u guys, i pa paste ko na lang dito yung explanation from bible.org (conclusion):

The doctrine of the trinity is truly beyond human comprehension or the limits of our finite minds, but it is nevertheless a vital truth of the Bible. It is a doctrine that is closely connected to other key doctrines like the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit. In fact, our salvation is rooted in the mysterious nature of the Godhead who coexists as three distinct Persons all of whom are involved in our salvation in all its aspects, past, present, and future. It encompasses everything we know and practice as Christians—our sanctification, our fellowship, our prayer life, our Bible study, or our corporate worship. That this is true and a precious truth for us to rest in is evident in Paul’s closing benediction in 2 Corinthians 13:14 and in Peter’s salutation and doxology in 1 Peter 1:1-5.

2 Cor. 13:14. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

1 Peter 1:1-5. Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

May the Lord bless you in your study of His precious Word and in your walk with God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

this one is from http://www.bible.org/docs/theology/proper/trinity.htm

yes, there are priests. and, u are (i think) very aware on whats their purpose. the "man" Christ Jesus is now history. he was, should we say, the high priest back then. so.. whats the prob?

mem whats ur religion?
May the Lord bless you in your study of His precious Word and in your walk with God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

[MEM]

The History proves that the Catholic Church had its own flaws. How can the Catholic church be holy if they have a very bad history in the past especially during reformation period? The true Church of God established by Christ never kill people by burning. Only God has the right to take away our lives as written in

Deuteronomy 32:39
"See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand."

May the Lord be with you all!

AMEN.

[Quentin]

can't you take the hint that it was the "Dark Ages". when people are more governed by popular ideas (like the horrific Inquisition) and abusive use of power (the religious leaders back then owned land). tell me if there is anyone here now who punishes sinners by burning?

try analyzing more of that part of HISTORY before tagging the Catholics. it wasn't really just the church that time, but other factors that synergistically contributed to the barbaric ways of the medieval Christians. please.

from what i recall (correct me PLEASE if i'm wrong), that Martin Luther had NO intention of separating from the Catholic Church. What he nailed on the church wall were the abuses done by the church administrators. But because of the power held by the religious officials, it prompted a chain of events that caused the birth of the 'Protestants'. i remember seeing a wood print excerpt at that time in which a Catholic church is depicted as decrepit and eroding, while a Protestant church nearby is being constructed neatly.

(but i have little clue of the origin of the Orthodox. which is btw, older than the Protestants).

[MEM]

St. Paul clearly states that BISHOPS AND DEACONS must have one wife and children as written in

1 Timothy 3:2,12
"A BISHOP THEN MUST BE BLAMELESS, THE HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach. Let DEACONS BE THE HUSBANDS OF ONE WIFE, ruling their children and their own houses well.

If they don't have a family, how can they manage the church of God as written in

1 Timothy 3:5
"For if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?"

That is the true structure of the true Church of God established by Christ.

Then, St. Paul reminded Timothy that in later times, after they left the Church of God, some will abandon the faith possessed by demons, DOCTRINES OF DEMONS such as forbidding to marry as written in

1 Timothy 4:1-3
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and DOCTRINES OF DEMONS, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, FORBIDDING TO MARRY, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth."


Well. St. Paul is right. The prophecy was fulfilled. A particluar church deceived many people by teaching the doctrines of demons by forbidding the church leaders to marry. St. Paul said that the Church leaders must be married, and yet this particular church forbids their leaders to marry.

PEACE BE WITH YOU ALL!

AMEN.

[silver surfer]

Why don't you first read the other replies before you go to another topic of the discussion? You're not paying attention.

Let me tell you about the bible. All words has a symbolic interpretation. It is not a law book written to give order to the Christian religion, rather it is a collection of writings to inspire and help Christians lead a life that is pleasing to God.

Rather than learn from the Catholic teachers and from direct experience, you learn intellectually and indirectly from books, taking every word from the bible literally. And since you do not usually put Christian principles into practice in an everyday sort of way, your explanations of them tend to leave out some rather important details, such as how they work and where you can apply them.

Priests and Deacons have achieved the state of self-fulfillment because it is their own choice to give themselves in the service of God. They are on a different level that may confuse people who does not understand them. And if they don't, then they pertain to it as demonic or what not. Remember that the Church is also pertained as the HOUSE of God. Go figure, Mem.

Originally posted by MEM
St. Paul clearly states that BISHOPS AND DEACONS must have one wife and children as written

If they don't have a family, how can they manage the church of God as written

[Deus]

Originally posted by MEM


<<<Did Catholics never attack other religions?

Remember HISTORY? During the Council of Trent (325AD) up to the year 600AD. The Catholic Church had ordered the authority to kill by burning the people if they don't believe the TRINITY.

Remember Joan of Arc? What did they do to her?

Remember during the Protestant Reformation (1517-1546)? The Catholic Church had also ordered that those who will be PROTESTANTS will be put to death burning them. Especially in England. Did you watch the movie "Elizabeth". I really feel sorry for those people who sacrificed their lives just for the sake of their faith in God.>>>

Just as I post, past is the past. I am referring to the present Catholic Church. They never said in any of their programs "Protestants are evil" or something like that. All they do is to explain and justify what they are doing.

Originally posted by MEM

DEUS: Use biblical verses to support your idea. Don't use your own opinion in protecting Catholicism. Why? because the scripture clearly states that only those fools expresses their own opinion when it comes to God's religion, Christianity as written in

No need! I am not here to "impress people that I memorized the Bible." I write what I read in several reference not just the Bible and I didn't write the title and author of the book. What is written here is not my own opinion, most are opinions of theologians who became my theachers.

No need to site anything because I am not writing a thesis. I just want to protect Catholicism.

[MEM]

Originally posted by silver surfer
Let me tell you about the bible. All words has a symbolic interpretation. It is not a law book written to give order to the Christian religion, rather it is a collection of writings to inspire and help Christians lead a life that is pleasing to God.

[/QUOTE]

For your information, the Bible contains law books! It is written in so many passages in

Deuteronomy 28:58 "If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name--the LORD your God--"

Joshua 24:26 "And Joshua recorded these things in the Book of the Law of God. Then he took a large stone and set it up there under the oak near the holy place of the LORD."

Nehemiah 8:8 "They read from the Book of the Law of God, making it clear and giving the meaning so that the people could understand what was being read."

Nehemiah 8:18 "Day after day, from the first day to the last, Ezra read from the Book of the Law of God. They celebrated the feast for seven days, and on the eighth day, in accordance with the regulation, there was an assembly."

2 Kings 23:24 "Furthermore, Josiah got rid of the mediums and spiritists, the household gods, the idols and all the other detestable things seen in Judah and Jerusalem. This he did to fulfill the requirements of the law written in the book that Hilkiah the priest had discovered in the temple of the LORD."

What about the book of Leviticus? Isn't it a law book?

[silver surfer]

Ha, Gotcha!

So you do admit that you have considered the bible as a law book to be taken literally. You have applied your Academician point of view when reading the words in the bible. You've turned it into a school textbook to memorize. Can you even paraphrase by your own? Can you prove your standing without phrasing a passage from the bible? You cower in the safety of these words, thinking that it can save you, skimming through them not even understanding the essence of the words.

That's one difference of Catholics. We don't try too much to be Christians. We just naturally are. We put the round peg in the round hole and the square peg in the square hole. Other religions try to devise craftier ways of making pegs fit where they don't belong. I hope you understand these words, similar to parables, they are symbolic. I have already one mistake trying to use words like these when talking to the likes of you and all he did was apply his logic to it. He never understood.

Originally posted by MEM

For your information, the Bible contains law books! It is written in so many passages in

[MEM]

Originally posted by silver surfer
Ha, Gotcha!

So you do admit that you have considered the bible as a law book to be taken literally. You have applied your Academician point of view when reading the words in the bible. You've turned it into a school textbook to memorize. Can you even paraphrase by your own? Can you prove your standing without phrasing a passage from the bible? You cower in the safety of these words, thinking that it can save you, skimming through them not even understanding the essence of the words.

That's one difference of Catholics. We don't try too much to be Christians. We just naturally are. We put the round peg in the round hole and the square peg in the square hole. Other religions try to devise craftier ways of making pegs fit where they don't belong. I hope you understand these words, similar to parables, they are symbolic. I have already one mistake trying to use words like these when talking to the likes of you and all he did was apply his logic to it. He never understood.

Originally posted by MEM

For your information, the Bible contains law books! It is written in so many passages in

You didn't get my statement. I said, "the bible contains law books!" I did not say, "the bible contains only law books". In tagalog, hindi ko sinabi na law books lang ang nasa bible.

The bible contains law books, history books, poetic books, prophetic books, and many many more...

Yes. Not all in the bible are to be taken literally. But the law of God is literal, no figure's of speech needed. But the parables of Jesus Christ are not to be taken literally especially in the book of Matthew as written in

Matthew 15:15
"Peter said, "Explain the parable to us.""

Parables need explanation, but the explanation are also explained by Christ in the bible as written in

Matthew 15:16-20
16 "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
17 "Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body?
18 But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man `unclean.'
19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
20 These are what make a man `unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him `unclean.'"

Amen.

[silver surfer]

Then you have contradicted yourself, Meme...I mean, Mem.

Review our last discussion starting from my words about law books. First I said "the bible is not a law book to give order to the Christian religion."

Then you said "for your information, the bible contains law books, blah, blah"

Then I said "So you admit you have considered the bible as a law book, taking it literally"

And then you said "I only said there are law books in the bible."

Your words did not justify your argument. Fine, there are law books in the bible. But that is far from my point. My point is you took the bible too literally, stating this verse and that, even the parables. Parables are stories, often told by Jesus, but there have also been parables that are not even in the bible. It implies symbolism and symbolism is what I have said over and over again. Prove me wrong now.

[MEM]

Originally posted by silver surfer
Then you have contradicted yourself, Meme...I mean, Mem.

Review our last discussion starting from my words about law books. First I said "the bible is not a law book to give order to the Christian religion."

Then you said "for your information, the bible contains law books, blah, blah"

Then I said "So you admit you have considered the bible as a law book, taking it literally"

And then you said "I only said there are law books in the bible."

Your words did not justify your argument. Fine, there are law books in the bible. But that is far from my point. My point is you took the bible too literally, stating this verse and that, even the parables. Parables are stories, often told by Jesus, but there have also been parables that are not even in the bible. It implies symbolism and symbolism is what I have said over and over again. Prove me wrong now.

I did not contradict myself. The bible contains law books, poetic books, history books and others. I did not say "the bible contains only law books".

It's your own judgement that I took the bible literally. Yan lagi ang sinasabi ng mga taong ayaw tanggapin ang katotohanan. The bible has mentioned "You shall not kill". Isn't it literal? But there are also some passages that are not to be taken literally like in

Matthew 6:6
"But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

The phrase "your room" and "close the door" are not to be taken literally. It symbolizes our heart and mind.

Amen?

[silver surfer]

MEM, it's as simple as this.

If you have achieved the level of consciousness where you understand the essence of your belief, then you understand which of the bible should be taken literally and which is not. The bible is a guide for Catholics and for other Christians to the right path. The right way of life. We apply the contents in the bible in our everyday life, to answer our individual question. It is not written to prove wrong the beliefs of others.

Catholics today never condemn other Christians, even other religions such as Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. We have respect for them, no questions asked.

Do you know how vast symbolism can take you? Let me show you on your last passage that you memorized so well. I can say it means that you should not boast your act of praying to show people how devoted you are to your religion. Other people can strictly implore that praying should be done alone locked in your room. You say it symbolizes your heart and mind. That's a total of three meaning that could imply your passage. Each people can give individual meanings by how the bible applies in their lives.

[Quentin]

the level of consciousness of which i think you are thinking, is, in my opinion, an elusive state. it has to be separate from fanaticism and philosphy, yet includes both. for in reality, people usually can only afford one of these ...

[silver surfer]

Isn't it that religion is more than just the analytical aspect that crushes and confuses so many people? I think that is exactly my point to MEM, maybe it's not about zealous vs. logical, rather it is adroitness vs. logical. But if I sound too extreme, well then let's all stick to the rational.

[tonton]

No use arguing, MEm. Whether they admit it or not, they do not believe the bible and the clear verses. When a verse contradicts their faith, they make the most famous feeble excuse that it should not be taken lierally. They trust the history books or encyclopaedia more than they trust the bible. They hate it when you quote the bible. So there is no point arguing. They only love tradition and that which are popular. Thats one of the reasons why I stopped writing in the other thread.

Let them enjoy their false gods and goddesses for a while, for sure, all those that they invoke besides God cannot help them when J day comes.

[Squatter]

Yes Mem. You better give it up. Tonton did, and now he's sulking in the corner, calling names to us as it's the only thing he can do.

[MEM]

1 Corinthians 4:6
"Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another."

Deuteronomy 12:32
"See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it."

Galatians 1:8-9
"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!"

Revelation 22:18-19
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.