Republic of Cebu, Republic of Mindanao, Ilocos Republic

[bleh]

Originally Posted by livs

^uh, more like superiority complex.

i don't know, livs. Syanos are almost always on the defensive about their origins than Manilenos. You tend to think we look down on you when we get mildly amused by syano ways. Syanos tend to feel that they need to prove themselves more than Manilenos do. Manilenos would not identify themselves as special because they come from Manila, but Cebuanos think they are special for being Cebuanos. Ethnocentric groups suffer from inferiority complex, that's why they have to identify themselves as special. This is from what I observe anyway so don't think I take it as Gospel truth.

I for one am not interested in Cebuano affairs. If you think you're not getting your fair share, assert yourselves. we don't mind. I don't mind it either if you just cop out and secede.

[Colnago]

on this one....

So now there's 2 calling your bluff!! Come on Cebu..... Secede now!!!!

[ToTalMadnEsS]

I am aware that the constitution does not allow a province to secede. As long as all the Cebuano people will support it through a public declaration. If Cebu
does declare secession, other provinces in Visayas and Mindanao will follow too.
A big loss for NCR. All provinces remit their taxes to the national government
and you what that means a better and improve Manila.


i never knew why cebu still want to be part of this country. They can stand
on their own. The national government abandoned cebu for 20 year period
during marcos years coz being the oppsition COUNTRY. Cebu is now an
economic powerhouse even without the help of the government. i just dont get



i remember my japanese friend told me " the philippines is part of Cebu?" WTF

[Colnago]

Oh yun naman pala eh. Powerhouse daw ang Cebu. So why not secede now?

[ToTalMadnEsS]

To Colnago

The thread should instead be Politician in Ilocos and mayor in davao want
to create a republic if GMA is ousted illegally. i sure dont remember cebu
mentioning republic in the news. Last thing i remember, politicians in cebu
wanted to divide the province.

So leave Cebu out of this, leave us alone and make cebuano the national
language instead.

[goodgal]

a federal parliamentary form of government will decentralize the various government functions, thus delivery of vital services to the people will be faster. it will also help in preserving the nation’s socio-cultural, geographical and religious diversities.

take a look at Canada's government http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/sp...infobox1_e.cfm

and Australia's government
http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/sys_gov.html
http://www.aph.gov.au/parl.htm

[bleh]

yeah pwede. But the Cebuanos may be like the Quebecois, still hoping for secession. Hindi maalis yon, pride yon eh.

Cebuano sentiments expressed here are not patriotic/nationalistic anyway. O sige na, secede na kayo. Naniwala naman kayo kay GMA na ililipat ang Malacanang Palace sa Cebu. Do you believe in anything reasonable ba?

[more]

Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Long live irony
Posts: 302 Republic of Cebu, Republic of Mindanao, Ilocos Republic

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If Gloria is illegally forced out of office, then i suggest we just dissolve the Republic of the Philippines ala U.S.S.R. The Philippines will just be a laughing stock and a banana republic to the international community anyway if another people power revolution happens.

now we can call those republics ...F**K -UPS runaway banana republics now,it's sounds really stupid ..hellooooo...

[rabbaddal]

I guess it would be more constructive if we exchange our views objectively, preferably supporting it with facts or level-headed reasoning instead of resorting to taunts and insults. Kaya naman natying mag usap ng matino kaya bakit pa tayo mag-aalaskahan?

So why will Cebu most likely be capable of going on its own?

It is more integrated to the global economy. It does not have to sell its products to the rest of the Philippines in order to survive financially. Its exports have grown at an average of 20% over the past 5 years. This is almost double the Philippine average and constituting around 10% of Philippine exports. Cebu’s exports have consistently exceeded imports. Among all provinces, Cebu gets the largest share of foreign tourist arrivals.

It can industrialize faster if it didn’t adhere to Philippine trade laws. Its GDP consists mainly of manufacturing and services, with agriculture taking up a very small portion. It can implement a Hong Kong / Singapore-style trade and investment policy that is more liberal without worrying about protecting farmers from an influx of cheap agricultural products from abroad.

The province can benefit from lower interest rates by not being associated with the rest of the country. It’s budget has consistently been in surplus (at least as of 2003 figures) and inflation is low at 4%, which is almost the same as that of Malaysia. It would be easier for ordinary Cebuanos to borrow money from banks in order to own houses and cars.

This may be a bit far fetched, but an independent Cebu might actually be better for the rest of the country. Because the rest of the Philippines is more conveniently located to Cebu than any other territory, Cebu can outsource lower-end processes to the rest of the Philippines as it aims for higher-value economic activity. This is similar to the kind of economic relationship Hong Kong and Taiwan had with mainland China. But this is only possible if Cebu were to industrialize at the same rate that Hong Kong and Taiwan did, which, under the present circumstances, it can’t do as part of the Philippines.

Objectively, Cebu can take care of itself. But if it were to secede, it should be ready to assume its fair share of the debt burden.

[hannah7]

pwede kaya? maging ok kaya ang bansa natin pag ganito?

[more]

Objectively, Cebu can take care of itself. But if it were to secede, it should be ready to assume its fair share of the debt burden.
Before you though of seceding try to understand or study the way the economy runs in the Banana republic of the Philippines. You are so consume about your Cebu you don't look at the picture as a whole.

[AbulugAdventure]

Sa ganyan auonomy, ang magsusurvive lang e ang Cebu at Ilocos minus Chavit's lunacy.

Ito lang ang mga capable regions.

[imlearning18]

hindi ako makapaniwala na paghiwahiwalahin tau ng mga politicians behind this issue! who the hel are they?

kung tatay mo is nasa cebu, ikaw sa manila, asawa mo sa mindanao, kailangan mo pa ng passport papunta ng cebu or cagayan de oro or davao? wahhh... i dont like it...

samokaani uy! yaw pagsunod anang mga politician nga wala gibuhat kungdili magpadako ug lobot...

[Lip_Service]

i have been based in cebu for just a little more than 4 months now and i would say that the cebuanos really blindly support gloria.

i used to feel very comfortabl here until the gloriagate scandal came out. as usual i would be first to get the hello_garci ringtone and the wiretapped conversation... but when i offered them to my officemates, they refused! i felt totally alienated.

na-offend siguro because majority of cebuanos voted for gma. saka yun daw yaya ni gloria is a cebuana.. that is why fluent si gma with the dialect. and garci himself is a genuine "bisdak". so they feel a certain bond with gma.

but i am really in a quandary why is it that the cebuanos, inspite of the overwhelming probability that gma cheated still ignore the incident. state of denial? as rep. plaza laments... "what kind of province is this???"

[Colnago]

Originally Posted by ToTalMadnEsS

To Colnago

The thread should instead be Politician in Ilocos and mayor in davao want
to create a republic if GMA is ousted illegally. i sure dont remember cebu
mentioning republic in the news. Last thing i remember, politicians in cebu
wanted to divide the province.

So leave Cebu out of this, leave us alone and make cebuano the national
language instead.

Asus, the only way cebuano will become a national language is if Cebu secedes. So secede now to get your wish.

As for Ilocos seceding, ay apo nagtanga kayo amin no agkasta kayo.

[renz]

Originally Posted by Lip_Service

i have been based in cebu for just a little more than 4 months now and i would say that the cebuanos really blindly support gloria.

i used to feel very comfortabl here until the gloriagate scandal came out. as usual i would be first to get the hello_garci ringtone and the wiretapped conversation... but when i offered them to my officemates, they refused! i felt totally alienated.

na-offend siguro because majority of cebuanos voted for gma. saka yun daw yaya ni gloria is a cebuana.. that is why fluent si gma with the dialect. and garci himself is a genuine "bisdak". so they feel a certain bond with gma.

but i am really in a quandary why is it that the cebuanos, inspite of the overwhelming probability that gma cheated still ignore the incident. state of denial? as rep. plaza laments... "what kind of province is this???"

it's not only cebuanos but some of gma supporters.

cebuanos were proud then na sila ang nagpanalo kay gma pero ngayon, nabuko ang pandaraya ni gma sa mindanao (at kung tutuusin, nandaya din siya sa cebu) nahihiya silang kainin ang sinabi nila. hehe. but not all cebuanos are like them. i have a colleagues from cebu and one would mimick gma everytime she makes a dramatic in tv. yung isa, galit na galit kay gloria. hehe.

sabi nila intelligent voters daw ang mga cebuano pero tingin ko hindi. bumuboto sila according don sa gusto ng kanilang mga local na pinuno wherein manila voters voted according sa gusto nila. panalo ang mga local mayors ni gma pero talo siya sa maynila.

[lechon x]

^asus, ang nagsalita ang hindi taga cebu. mahuya ka man gid
sa rally na lang natin bashan kung *** ang maraming nag attend noon.
ding-a-iling where are you.

[AnimoTeneo]

Watch the tv patrol news and they shown a portion about Mindanao's future flag and national anthem?!

I don't want provinces or islands to secede just change the current government system eh!!!

[jdlc]

Originally Posted by AnimoTeneo

Watch the tv patrol news and they shown a portion about Mindanao's future flag and national anthem?!

I don't want provinces or islands to secede just change the current government system eh!!!

That... makes me feel a bit uneasy.

[jdlc]

Originally Posted by renz

bumuboto sila according don sa gusto ng kanilang mga local na pinuno wherein manila voters voted according sa gusto nila.

Lousy and stupid generalization.

[jdlc]

Originally Posted by Lip_Service

i have been based in cebu for just a little more than 4 months now and i would say that the cebuanos really blindly support gloria.

but i am really in a quandary why is it that the cebuanos, inspite of the overwhelming probability that gma cheated still ignore the incident. state of denial? as rep. plaza laments... "what kind of province is this???"

Again a lousy generalization. Four months obviously isn't enough for you. If there's anything I can lament about my fellow Cebuanos, it's because they thought GMA was the lesser evil.

But you know the biggest reason why Cebuanos aren't "enthusiastic" against GMA, it's because of the TRAPOS who are rallying AGAINST her and this sentiment is not exclusive to Cebu only.

[Ventada]

Originally Posted by Lip_Service

i have been based in cebu for just a little more than 4 months now and i would say that the cebuanos really blindly support gloria.

i used to feel very comfortabl here until the gloriagate scandal came out. as usual i would be first to get the hello_garci ringtone and the wiretapped conversation... but when i offered them to my officemates, they refused! i felt totally alienated.

na-offend siguro because majority of cebuanos voted for gma. saka yun daw yaya ni gloria is a cebuana.. that is why fluent si gma with the dialect. and garci himself is a genuine "bisdak". so they feel a certain bond with gma.

but i am really in a quandary why is it that the cebuanos, inspite of the overwhelming probability that gma cheated still ignore the incident. state of denial? as rep. plaza laments... "what kind of province is this???"

It's no different here. Nobody talks about it here either, even here in the government agency were I work. I asked my sister if they talk about it in their office and she said nobody utters a single word about the issue. I started inviting friends again who are working because I was curious about the people's sentiments regarding the issue and non of them would give the issue a thought. Naki-Uzi ako sa rally sa Ayala, 50 lang ang dumalo. It didn't even cause a traffic and the workers were just passing them by. Some I even whispered defiantly against the rallyist, "maawa naman kayo sa Pilipinas". May isang pumatol, sabi niya "dude, sawa ng tao at sawa na rin kami. Lets talk about other things".

It's probably just media sensationalizing the issue and perhaps a few illegitimate offsprings of opposition politicians here at PEx that cares about it. Unfortunately, few they may be, the investors confidence in our country has been shaken by this issue. Stock Market fell and the dollar has reached a record high. In the end, the promises of GMA might not materialize after all because of the opposition's lack of sympathy to the ordinary citizen. Anybody every realize the G8 countries have begun giving debt relief? Did media or opposition ever pay attention to this? No. They would rather sabotage the economy to discredit GMA so that it would be their turn to plunder the country.

Hindi mo ba napansin, unti-unti nababawasan ang pro-gma posts dito? Sawa na kami. It's not funny anymore...

[termyte97]

aminin nyo na! 5% nalang ang original manilenyo residents (most were killed during WW2 liberation of manila), halos lahat ng nakatira sa metro manila ay galing sa neighboring provinces at sa visayas (looking for jobs) at mindanao (fleeing from war). Nag-away away pa kayo e. Bakit kaya sila nagpupunta ng manila? is it becos of power? exchanging poverty with power?

[Lip_Service]

Originally Posted by jdlc

Again a lousy generalization. Four months obviously isn't enough for you. If there's anything I can lament about my fellow Cebuanos, it's because they thought GMA was the lesser evil.

yes! the sugbuanos are really so damn proud that they voted for gma during the elections and that they are proclaming to the world that theirs was an "intelligent vote"... ok, so maybe it was an intelligent choice during those times but why can't they at least acknowledege that their choice isn't really that great after all?

My first impression (and still is) of the sugbuanos is that they are very religious people.. now, being such, why would they still give unequivocal support to an immoral leader?

[Lip_Service]

Originally Posted by jdlc

But you know the biggest reason why Cebuanos aren't "enthusiastic" against GMA, it's because of the TRAPOS who are rallying AGAINST her and this sentiment is not exclusive to Cebu only.

I agree with you on this. I would never even dream attending a rally to rub elbows with the likes of jinggoy, and the barbaric hakots from the slums. I'm sure the priest, nuns and catholic school students feel the same way too. This is why we can't really be united.

But for heaven's sake why wouldn't the cebuanos show even a bit of remorse for electing gma??

[AnimoTeneo]

Republic of Mindanao

By Rene Ezpeleta Bartolo
“Ricochet,” The Mindanao Times

“Let us establish an independent nation in Mindanao,” said Davao City Mayor Rodrigo Duterte, on June 12 during his television program “Gikan sa Masa, Para sa Masa” “and we will call it the Republic of Mindanao.”

As many times as he was interviewed by local media this past week, Mayor Duterte has made that statement. The predicate of that pronouncement is the on-going political turbulence in Manila, the seat of government.

“Every time they do not like a sitting president,” said Duterte, “people in Manila go to the streets to drive from office the president. They do that on their own without consulting the people of Mindanao and they call it EDSA. I will talk to the Bangsa Moro people to put up our own government in Mindanao. It will be a federal government.”

Many may have thought the Mayor was playing with words, especially because the words were buttered with a smile. I don’t think Duterte was joking. Independence is not a joking matter.

Mayor Duterte is, by his own admission, loyal to President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo. But by the implication of his pronouncements, he is more loyal to the people of Mindanao. If the people in Manila cannot get their acts together, then he will get the people of Mindanao to fashion their own act of nationhood – the Republic of Mindanao.

To the Arroyo government, that may sound like a statement of support (a reiteration of loyalty?) To the people of Mindanao, long relegated to the periphery of nationhood, that sounds more like the dawning of a new day.

Long history

The bid for self-rule for Mindanao – ranging from federalism to outright secession – has a long history. The Muslim separatist movements of the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) and their continuing armed struggle are tragic daily reminders of the Mindanaoans’ desire for self-determination.

The persistent prejudice of the national government against the island and its people spawned the Mindanao Independence Movement of Ruben Canoy in the early 80s. The movement was silenced after it broke out in the open in Cagayan de Oro, but the feelings remain festering.

Many Mindanaoans continue to believe that the island is better off as a self-governing state. If this is not realized through federalism, then let it be by the dismemberment of the Republic.

To the mind of Duterte: “If you cannot solve your suicidal bickering in the nation’s capital, then we will call our own shots.” That is what his pronouncements say.

Mindanao could have settled for federalism; it still may. This push for federalism was given a pull during the May 2004 presidential campaign when Gloria Macapagal Arroyo promised to work for the federal form of government when elected. For Arroyo, the campaign promise may not have gone beyond vote-baiting but for many in Mindanao, it was a serious promise that should seriously be kept.

This column has always been for a federal form of government. It will always be. At every little chance we get, we fan the federalist fires, so to speak.

Why federalism will work

The Encyclopedia Americana defines “federalism” as the principle according to which two levels of government, general and regional, exist side by side in the state, each possessing certain assigned powers and functions.

The United States of America, from which our own democratic institutions were patterned, has a federal system of government; while ours is unitary which makes all the regions of the country hopelessly dependent on the national government.

Under a federal system, regional governments have assigned powers and functions which the national government cannot arrogate nor usurp; and within the sphere of those powers and functions, the regional government is autonomous and independent from intervention.

The powers of the national government and those of the regional governments are defined and assigned by the Constitution. Under the common concept of federalism, the regional governments operate directly upon the people within its jurisdiction, exercising independence in matters of legislation, taxation and administration. Thus, the regional government has the power to pass laws responsive to the particular needs of the people in the region; impose the necessary taxes; and administer without interference its own internal affairs.

On the other hand, the powers usually assigned to the national government are those of the regulation of commerce, defence, immigration, currency and foreign affairs. It is the national government that ensures that goods from the regions are competitive in the world market; defends the whole country from internal and external aggression; controls the influx of non-citizens; maintains the integrity of the national currency; and enters into treaties abroad.

Federalism is desirable in a country divided by differences in language, religion, culture, tribal origin, social organizations, varying economic interests, or a historical perception of being previously a separate state.

Under a federal system, the regional governments can institute mechanisms to articulate and protect the differences to which value is attached—like religion, culture or language—and ensure that these differences are protected. The most effective of these mechanisms is equal representation in the national legislature.

The federal system is particularly appealing to communities which desire a limited union for limited purposes while maintaining autonomy. That desire to unify for added strength is best seen in the birth of the United States over two centuries ago and in the European Union today.

But really, we can understand why Malacañang is adamant to the federal proposal. Imperial Manila has always taken a hard line against it.

Mindanao props up Manila

Manila is mulcting Mindanao. If Malacañang does not want to cede central control of the islands resources, it is because they do not want to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. They do not want to let loose the cow that gives them milk.

But as things are going today, and as Rody Duterte warned, Manila may lose altogether both the goose and the cow.

Consider, dear reader. Mindanao is the richest island in the archipelago. It supplies 40 percent of the food that the country consumes; 80 percent of raw materials and 60 percent of other agricultural products. Manila siphons from Mindanao its very life-blood; a greater part of the island’s income is used to build the infrastructure that makes Manila “premier and capital” city of the nation.

Take away the resources and income from Mindanao and Manila will hardly be able to stand on its feet. Mindanao props Manila up; take away the prop, it falls flat on its face.

Under a federal system, Mindanao will use its own income and resources for its own purposes – the central government will receive a lesser percentage (between 10 to 20 percent for its upkeep, depending on the provisions of a federal constitution). With a Mindanao Republic, they will not get a measly centavo.

We all want peace and prosperity. If they cannot have it in Manila, we want it for Mindanao. We want a nation strong and pushy enough to compete with the rest of the world.

Let our leaders forge a nation of independent, autonomous states that derive strength from their being different; not one that is weakened by a forced, fallacious sense of being the same.

Any presidency that succeeds in creating a federal Philippines during his/her term may yet come out as one of the best presidents of the country by the verdict of history tomorrow.

But if Manila continues with its governmental grip, its sordid scandals, its covered-up corruptions, its dismal failure to lead the nation forward, then it may wake up one day to the reality of a neighboring, and infinitely more prosperous, nation.

The Mindanao Republic.

The author writes a daily column, “Ricochet,” for The Mindanao Times.

http://www.cyberdyaryo.com/opinion/op2005_0621_01.htm

[Colnago]

Hay nako, ang dami pang satsat. Just secede already and get it over with.

[Mars84]

Dissolving the Republic of the Philippines and forming several states out of it is VERY risky right now. As corrupt as our national government is right now, it is to our advantage to be as close to united as we can get.

Newly formed governments are very vulnerable to terrorist influence. You want Mindanao to become an independent state? Have you any idea how easily Al Qaeda could spread its power even further? And what makes you think that the other republics you're thinking of creating will be safe from such a threat.

Now is a horrible time for dividing a country into different independent states. Radicals would pull a state into whichever direction they choose to go. Do you honestly think new governments could be sustained at this point? Ngayon pa na so many different groups are interested in forcing their ideology on others?

There is still safety in numbers. Creating a bunch of independent states out of the Republic of the Philippines will only serve to worsen an already terrible condition. What are the chances that these states will survive and become legitimate and credible republics?

People are so ruled by selfish pride and regionalism nowadays that they'll readily support a quick fix without really thinking of the possible consequences.

Seriously, stop acting like establishing a new government (not to mention sustaining it) is a piece of cake.

[Gide0n]

Originally Posted by Mars84

People are so ruled by selfish pride and regionalism nowadays that they'll easily support a quick fix without really thinking of the possible consequences.

Right! Like Duterte of Davao and Singson of Ilocos... ang lakas ng loob nilang sabihing titiwalag sila pag natanggal sa pwesto si GMA... lalo na si Duterte na magtatayo daw ng Mindanao Republic?! hahaha gunggong pala sya eh... bakit... ang boses ba ng Davao, boses ng buong Mindanao? o boses lang ni Duterte?

[jdlc]

Originally Posted by Lip_Service

But for heaven's sake why wouldn't the cebuanos show even a bit of remorse for electing gma??

For heaven's sake, what kind of remorse are you asking for?

You seem to be one of the only few non-Cebuanos who have makes it a problem with their Cebuano colleagues. We also talk about it here in the office and there are a lot of non-Cebuano people here (at karamihan pa sa kanila galing Manila) who share the same sentiment as ours.

[jonass]

Gawa-gawa lang 'yang ng mga pro-Gloria na natatakot dahil maaalis na sila sa poder.

[Ventada]

Originally Posted by Lip_Service

yes! the sugbuanos are really so damn proud that they voted for gma during the elections and that they are proclaming to the world that theirs was an "intelligent vote"... ok, so maybe it was an intelligent choice during those times but why can't they at least acknowledege that their choice isn't really that great after all?

My first impression (and still is) of the sugbuanos is that they are very religious people.. now, being such, why would they still give unequivocal support to an immoral leader?

And what would be an intelligent vote? FPJ?

The president remains the Filipinos' last best option ...

[Ventada]

If Mindano secedes, I will immigrate there. If Visayas cecedes, I will immigrate there.

What are the chances of Manila surviving without VizMin? In terms of number, there are more developed cities in Visayas and Mindanao compared to Luzon:

Luzon: Manila, Baguio?
VizMIn: Cebu, Davao, Cagayan de Oro, Bacolod, Iloilo

Without the resources of Visayas and Mindanao, Manila will be left with the resources of Central Luzon (that is if Ilocos Sur and Central Luzon will not secede). I doubt if that's enough to sustain Manila, not to mention the insular/protectionist mentality of its citizens.

Probably the only chance of Manila making on its own is to replicate a Singapore-type economy relying mostly on international trade. It will have to open up its market and allow investors to own 100% of the capital goods to attract them. Then again, I doubt it if Manileños will conform to that.

Federalism is an alternative to VizMin independence. Each state will greater autonomy in running their economic affairs but will still be a part of a solid economic bloc. In turn, Metro Manila will be decongested as other cities develop. The increase in income of the all the regions combined will create a more powerful Philippines.

The reasons of "now is not the time yet" and "our current unitary system is still working" for me are flimsy excuses. Our system is not "working", it is simply "surviving". There is a difference. This nation should be on the offensive. We've been in the defensive long enough. Now is the time for a federal government...

[jonass]

'Yang usaping secession o pagsasarili ay bunga ng isang kaisipang walang magawa. Unang-una, walang dahilan kung bakit dapat paghiwa-hiwalayin ang bansa. Pangalawa, may masamang hangin sa bunbunan ang nagsasabing ang Visayas o Mindanao o Luzon man ay makatatayo sa kanyang sarili ng gano'n-gano'n na lamang. Ito'y isang bangunot. Pangatlo, maraming Pilipino ang hindi makapapayag sa ilusyong ito dahil alam nilang hindi ito ang lunas sa ating problema.

Ang problema ng bansa ay hindi malulutas sa pamamagitan ng pagkaripas ng pagtakbo. Hindi natin mare-resolba ang ating problema kung puro takot ang nasa ulo natin; hindi nakukuha 'yan sa pagtatayo ng bakod; hind puro pansarili; puro nerbiyos at puro makikitid na pananaw. Ito'y mareresolba ng mga taong mag-sasama-sama at pagbubuklurin ang kanilang mga karunungan gaya ng ginawa ng mga ninuno natin ng kanila pang hinuhubog ang kasarinlan ng atin bayan.

Ayokong insultuhin ang mga ninuno natin. Sila na nagbuwis ng buhay; sila na tumaguyod upang tayo'y magkaro'n ng ating sariling tahanan. Isang bansa na lubhang iningatan ng mga Pilipinong nauna sa atin. Mga Pilipinong nagbuwis ng luha, pawis at dugo.

Ikaw ano na ang iyong binuwis para sa bayan ?

[coydeleon]

Duterte had something going there, Federalism.

Let's face it, we Filipinos aren't going to think of being Filipino first, are more prideful of our provincial affiliation than our national affilation. Until we learn to be Filipinos first before being a Cebuano, Kapampangan, Bicolano, Davaeno (sp?) etc., a central form of gov't will never work. Federalism maybe an answer, yet it is dangerously linked to having the possiblity of local warlords.

Then again, I may be assuming too mcuh.

[rabbaddal]

Originally Posted by Ventada

Probably the only chance of Manila making on its own is to replicate a Singapore-type economy relying mostly on international trade. It will have to open up its market and allow investors to own 100% of the capital goods to attract them. Then again, I doubt it if Manileños will conform to that.

Manilenos in general will probably welcome the entry of foreign capital that would open the door to more jobs and higher income. The oligarchs who control its economy may not like the idea of having new and better-funded competitors coming in. This has been a very serious problem that has been plaguing the country.

Originally Posted by Ventada

Federalism is an alternative to VizMin independence. Each state will greater autonomy in running their economic affairs but will still be a part of a solid economic bloc.

That’s what the Cordilleras thought when they got their autonomy. Then the supreme court steps in and declares that tax incentives given to one of its largest white collar employers is unlawful. The reality is that even a federal gov’t will still maintain some universal set of laws and institutions, which in turn could be used to impede the programs of the local governments.

[Ventada]

Originally Posted by rabbaddal

Manilenos in general will probably welcome the entry of foreign capital that would open the door to more jobs and higher income. The oligarchs who control its economy may not like the idea of having new and better-funded competitors coming in. This has been a very serious problem that has been plaguing the country.



That’s what the Cordilleras thought when they got their autonomy. Then the supreme court steps in and declares that tax incentives given to one of its largest white collar employers is unlawful. The reality is that even a federal gov’t will still maintain some universal set of laws and institutions, which in turn could be used to impede the programs of the local governments.

You have a point there that it's actually the ruling oligarchs who fear entry of more companies in the Philippines. Take for example PLDT who fought to keep the industry a monopoly for decades yet failed to connect the archipelago. Yes, federalism will divide the nation into states still ruled by their local oligarchs. In fact, most congressmen elected to office belong to more or less the landed elite (Zubiri, Cojuangco, etc).

However, this social structure should not deter us from looking into other options to forward this country. The benefit we are looking at is economic decentralization. Local governments will have greater access to capital (through localized taxes) instead of relying on Pork Barrel. Smaller states are easier to govern. The Roman Empire was split into two empires, two emperors, but one civilization because it was too big to be governed by one man ...

I'm not familiar with the Cordillera or ARMM structure. Do they have control of the taxes they collect from their locality? I believe it is still the national gov't that collects taxes from ARMM citizens and corporations.

Reaping the benefits of Federalism may take long but we have to begin by shifting to it first. Even the United States suffered decades of trouble following independence and flaws in their federal structure... Whiskey Rebellion, Civil War, etc. before they were cemented into what is now the United States.

[AnimoTeneo]

Originally Posted by Ventada

Reaping the benefits of Federalism may take long but we have to begin by shifting to it first. Even the United States suffered decades of trouble following independence and flaws in their federal structure... Whiskey Rebellion, Civil War, etc. before they were cemented into what is now the United States.

Colonial America, though mostly English, had other races as well. About 5% of the multicolored population consisted of other European group, like French Huguenots, Welsh, Dutch, Swedes, Jews, Irish, Swiss, and Scots Highlanders.

This seems to reflect our countries diversity, even if they are born in one country but different in culture, language, or region. I agee, that federalism will take time to be effective but isn't that how it should be?

People are moving into other countries looking for a better future putting their life or finacial situation at risk. Wouldn't this change of government which is just "surviving" a better investment for the great good of the country and its inhabitants?

[Syme]

After the threat of another attempt at doing some extra-constitutional changes in the government, some noise over independence from Ilocanos, Cebuanos and Davaoenyos have resurfaced. Some years ago, Republic of Cebu was a Cebuano inside joke made funnier when Manilenyos took it seriously. Recently, it seems people are more serious. While this does not make it more feasible, it might be an interesting to discuss how this came to be.

It seems that people are already exasperated with Manila’s fumbling leadership of this country, moving one step forward and pulled back by another dramatic EDSA revolution. The recent turmoil in Manila may be the sparkplug to this furor, but there may be deeper reasons why people are thinking that it may be better that they abandon the leaking ship of the Philippines. I think one factor that keeps a country together is a common identity. In the case of the Philippines, I think that many people have lost the sense of being Filipinos. More than the not so great reputation of the Philippines, I think bad education is the culprit. Particularly in two areas: Language and History.

1) Language:
It’s ironic that the national language created in 1937 would be an impediment to unity but it seems that it is. Being the uso of that time, it was natural for the Philippine nationalist to think that a national language is essential to unity (multiculturalism and protection of minority languages and culture are fairly recent usos). But it may have not been the best way to go.

National language implies that it is the language representing a nation. Naturally, the better you are at the national language, the closer your identity is to the identity that nation. In the Philippines, the national language is called Filipino. The relationship between language and being part of the nation is thus made even closer: it’s almost saying you have to speak Filipino to be Filipino.

Everyone in the country, except Tagalogs, will sooner or later realize that the national language is not his native tongue. That puts him in a weird situation. He knows that it’s good to love ones language (especially after being threatened of smelling like fish if he does not). He also knows that his ancestors have been speaking a language for hundreds or even thousands of years which is not the Filipino language.

Linguistic nationalism rests on the premise that ones native tongue gives one his identity. A Frenchman’s native tongue is French; a German’s, German; an Englishman’s, English; and Filipino’s would presumable be Filipino. One would then be led to think… If my lolo and my lolo’s lolo did not speak Filipino, would they have been Filipinos? If my native tongue is not Filipino, am I Filipino? I am forced by the educational system to learn Filipino. Does that mean I’m forced to be Filipino? Am I Filipino? Maybe not….

2) History
Many nationalists think that the Filipino identity as we know it grew and solidified as people of the Philippines fought against the Spanish colonialists. Our textbooks highlight 1898 and the provinces represented by the eight rays of the sun in the Philippine flag. One would then think: Does this mean that the unrepresented areas are less Filipino? It seems that my ancestors didn’t really take part in the Philippine revolution. Does that disqualify them from being Filipinos? If my forefathers were not Filipinos, am I Filipino? Maybe not…


It seems logical that the Philippines would have a better chance of getting out of this dunghole if the load is carried by the whole archipelago. It is therefore unfortunate that we’ve come to a point where people would rather cease to be Filipinos than try to make Filipino a name to be proud of. I don’t really blame them, considering the above. But it doesn’t have to be that way.

Other countries are multilingual and multiethnic and it may benefit us to take a look at their language policies: Switzerland, India, Singapore, USA and Taiwan, just to name a few…

And the teaching of history could definitely improve. It might be best to seek what really happened first, rather than start with the framework of nationalism and use history to support that. For example, Cebuanos have long been known to be one of the most unFilipino of Filipinos. But in 1899, long before the national language and the official history curriculum, one Cebuano general gave this almost cheesy call to arms:

The hour has already sounded when the Mother Country, in the midst of her tortures and countless sufferings, calls to us, Cebuanos, with a sorrowful and pleading voice, so that we, her sons, may without hesitation or dismay, raise the war cry throughout the fields... Independence or death--this is our theme... Let us fight then without hesitation or dismay, because God is in us, and His power is great, and however powerful the American nation may be, He can overthrow its power, destroying it as He did the giant Goliath, by the hand of the boy, David, with no weapon but a sling.

Let us fight, I repeat, and trust in God, the God of armies, who is watching over us.
(Mojares, Resil: War Against the Americans, p. 46)

While fighting against colonizers might not be the definite foundation to being Filipinos, a good knowledge of your people’s history is always a good thing. It might be good to know what your ancestors thought of being Filipino before you try throwing it out of the window…

What do you think?

[ToTalMadnEsS]

i read this in the "other" forum

Another EDSA storm is brewing in the RP horizon. Clearly a Cebu Republic and a Federal Republic of Mindanao is a better option than the never-ending saga of EDSA.