Save the environment!

[Ghost Rider]

besides all this "saving the planet" is just another propaganda to fill money of personal coffers of these supposed "environmentalists". Just like the war against alcohol in 1920s, war against drugs, war against Christmas etc. etc.

Who own the company who Americans pay for the carbon footprint? You got that right, its Al Gore.

This saving the planet thing is best summed up by George Carlin:
We can't even take care of ourselves yet, and we want to save the planet. Leave nature alone.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw

Yeah, just sit back and relax and let us see what will happen, is that your suggestion?

Every small steps on doing something will somehow lessen the pressure on the environment, it is better than doing nothing.

I'm not the typical "environmentalist", actually the term itself is use in wrong people, it is a shortcut for environmental scientist, people who have knowledge on how the ecosystem works and ecological environment. They should be called advocates, actually marami akong kalaban na tulad nila, since I'm working for sustainable development projects, anti talaga sila (like greenpeace). These people, just like Bambi said, OA.

The problem sometimes is, people tend to decline on believing the science kasi may kinaiinisan kayo (like Al Gore) or hindi kayo pabor sa mga changes o programs na ginagawa. Same mindset of businessmen, hanggat makakagawa kayo ng paraan, pipigilan at pipigilan ninyo (like what happened sa Kyoto Protocol, wala pa ring kapalit, delaying tactics at its best lalo na ang US).

How many times na explain, even sa net available yun, kung bakit ganito ngayon, the problem for some people, they are narrow minded and don't have enough knowledge and still they keep insisting their beliefs. Why not do something na kahit simple, may mawawala ba sa inyo? Takot kayo sa changes na mangyayari and even sa taxes na binabayad ninyo?

You rather pay for the feeding and pro-poor programs, but you ignore the fact that the over exploitation of resources and dwindling will cause increase in poverty and hunger rate?

This is a finite earth, the carrying capacity of the planet can't handle our population, our needs.

I just can't believe that some people will choose to ignore this and wait what will happen.

[Ghost Rider]

And the death of the chick is the fault of man's existence on earth. Or so Herr_Starr implies. Just recently Al Gore has claimed that the record winters in the US were caused by global warming. Really, I curse myself why I still take you, Ghost Rider and Al Gore seriously.

So tell me arcie, who created plastics? God?

Don't tell me sasabihin mo pa rin na natural ang source ng plastic

Pareho kayo ng problema ni summer, lack of scientific understanding, pero persistent pa rin

[Ghost Rider]

Bambi, I know you care about environment and believe it or not so do I. See what you're addressing is your immediate environment and conservation which is perfectly ok for me. Once humanity tries to engage the problem using profound words such as Earth, Mother Earth and Global our focus on the matter will be thinned and once spread far and apart we will end up making things worse. Both for our environment and the aspiration and eventual dissolution of the people. Rich countries are telling us our forests will disappear when they are the ones buying the timbers. We, here in our land has very little consumption of wood products for local markets and most of them are shipped off.

In a different perspective our Earth is doing fine. You can blow up all the nukes, release all the bio/chem weapons, burn all the forests. Still the earth will be fine. We need to accept that this planet is in different to our needs. It has no prejudice as to who is the dominant creature. We need to accept how insignificant we are and with that..fragile. We also need to take of ourselves first. Imaging 3 trillion dollars they need to lower the temp by 2 degrees? 3 trillion can end world hunger. Distribute food. Proper food distribution alone can be beneficial to the environment. 3 trillion can put every child on earth through college for the next 20 years.

Natural resources are plenty to go around as long as it is distributed properly. Rain forests, contrary to what they are saying can regenerate. The Earth is fine. Let it warm up for it will be good for vegetations. Co2 is not that bad. There's nothing constant with this Earth. Let's not fool ourselves that we can manipulate it. Clean your backyard, consume what's only necessary and save what's worth salvaging.

The Earth is fine.. it's our backyard that needs to be kept.

The problem of your idea cyber is that masyadong simple. You only want to act on what you see, for example, like a wood na pineste ng termite, you only kill the termites you see, but not looking or targeting the source, which is the queen.

Same on your idea. Feed the poor, use the money to them instead of using it to prevent the actual source of the problem. Same sa population control, dito lang sa Pinas, most ng anti-RH Bill reason nila they don't want their taxes to be wasted on contraceptives and family planning, but they don't see that most of their taxes goes to subsidies and pro-poor program, imbes magamit sa economic projects. The population of the poor keeps increasing, same as the budget for them. Mas gusto nila ganito kesa ayusin ang pinaka-ugat ng problema.

Your ideas lack mitigation measures.

[cyberfunk]

Yes, may Joe Pesci bless Carlin's soul

I'll pray to Joe Pesci for his Soul. At least there's a 50/50 chance of it.

[cyberfunk]

The problem of your idea cyber is that masyadong simple. You only want to act on what you see, for example, like a wood na pineste ng termite, you only kill the termites you see, but not looking or targeting the source, which is the queen.

Same on your idea. Feed the poor, use the money to them instead of using it to prevent the actual source of the problem. Same sa population control, dito lang sa Pinas, most ng anti-RH Bill reason nila they don't want their taxes to be wasted on contraceptives and family planning, but they don't see that most of their taxes goes to subsidies and pro-poor program, imbes magamit sa economic projects. The population of the poor keeps increasing, same as the budget for them. Mas gusto nila ganito kesa ayusin ang pinaka-ugat ng problema.

Your ideas lack mitigation measures.

It's just straightforward being simple doesn't mean one is being simple Minded. People with other agenda tends to complicate things for their own gains. environmental zealots, anti-technology Luddites, utopian one-worlders, and population-control fanatics, but also by bureaucrats, businesses, brokers and bankers, who had learned how to game the system and profit from government grants and subsidies for exotic schemes to produce “carbon-free” energy and from the trading of carbon permits. Hundreds of billions have already been wasted — most of this in transfers of tax revenues to a favored few.

You think ending world hunger won't solve any problem? The highest education for all the children in the world wont produce good result? You give up all that to reduce the temperature by 2 degrees which you can easily solve by having a better fashion sense.

[gungrust]

Lol at kinaiinisan ko raw si Al Gore. I don't even care.

I say that we are part of nature. We are self-destructive, then the whole human species deserves to go extinct. We may have taken some species with us, well, cest la vie. Pack your sh*t folks, we are going away!

The planet doesn't need our help. The planet isn't discerning who lives or who dies. Because the planet doesn't care if there's no trees. We do because we need plants to get oxygen to breathe. Its our direct action that causes this. We need ourselves to save ourselves.

This "saving the planet" stuff is one of those defensive mechanism people use to erase their guilt of having anything to do with the "destruction" of the planet. Its like masturbation.

In the end, these "saving the planet" movements are just things are that Grade A A-holes who use scare tactics, speaking green language and stuff, just to push their own agenda, such as making the size of government larger.

I think you have to watch Penn and Teller's B*llshit regarding Environmental Hysteria. They interviewed even the First President of Greenpeace and he even says all this is b*llshit.

[Herr_Starr]

And the death of the chick is the fault of man's existence on earth. Or so Herr_Starr implies. Just recently Al Gore has claimed that the record winters in the US were caused by global warming. Really, I curse myself why I still take you, Ghost Rider and Al Gore seriously.

There is no implication, arcie, it was down to humanity's wasteful practices. There is a spot of plastic garbage in the middle of the Pacific that covers an area twice the size of the state of Texas. How did it get there?

Really arcie, can you say that the death of that chick was down to natural causes? Did its parents purposely feed it plastic that they sought out? That is the converse of what you are saying, not just what you are implying.

[bambi7]

kahit wala ang mga research research na yan, obvious naman na sirang-sira na ang environment natin. kahit grade 3, row 4, section 10 alam yan.

[Ghost Rider]

Lol at kinaiinisan ko raw si Al Gore. I don't even care.

I say that we are part of nature. We are self-destructive, then the whole human species deserves to go extinct. We may have taken some species with us, well, cest la vie. Pack your sh*t folks, we are going away!

The planet doesn't need our help. The planet isn't discerning who lives or who dies. Because the planet doesn't care if there's no trees. We do because we need plants to get oxygen to breathe. Its our direct action that causes this. We need ourselves to save ourselves.

This "saving the planet" stuff is one of those defensive mechanism people use to erase their guilt of having anything to do with the "destruction" of the planet. Its like masturbation.

In the end, these "saving the planet" movements are just things are that Grade A A-holes who use scare tactics, speaking green language and stuff, just to push their own agenda, such as making the size of government larger.

I think you have to watch Penn and Teller's B*llshit regarding Environmental Hysteria. They interviewed even the First President of Greenpeace and he even says all this is b*llshit.

With this thinking, I think the line in the movie "The Day The Earth Stood Still" is applicable.

Helen Benson: I need to know whats happening.
Klaatu: This planet is dying. The human race is killing it.
Helen Benson: So you've come here to help us.
Klaatu: No, *I* didnt.
Helen Benson: You said you came to save us.
Klaatu: I said I came to save the Earth.
Helen Benson: You came to save the Earth... from us. You came to save the Earth *from* us.
Klaatu: We cant risk the survival of this planet for the sake of one
species.
Helen Benson: What are you saying?
Klaatu: If the Earth dies, you die. If you die, the Earth survives.
There are only a handful of planets in the cosmos that are capable
of supporting complex life...
Helen Benson: You cant do this.
Klaatu: ...this one cant be allowed to perish.
Helen Benson: We can change. We can still turn things around.
Klaatu: Weve watched, weve waited and hoped that you *would*
change.
Helen Benson: Please...
Klaatu: Its reached the tipping point. We have to act.
Helen Benson: Please...
Klaatu: Well undo the damage youve done and give the Earth a chance to begin again.
Helen Benson: Dont do this. Please, we can change. We can change.
Klaatu: The decision is made. The process has begun.
Helen Benson: Oh God.

One more simpleton ideas of some here, the earth will be fine, yes, but how about its ability to support life? The word earth does not solely mean about the planet, but it includes the resources and the ability of the planet to support life.

Even without life, this planet will continue to exist. What we need is to protect that ability to sustain life.

[Ghost Rider]

There is no implication, arcie, it was down to humanity's wasteful practices. There is a spot of plastic garbage in the middle of the Pacific that covers an area twice the size of the state of Texas. How did it get there?

Really arcie, can you say that the death of that chick was down to natural causes? Did its parents purposely feed it plastic that they sought out? That is the converse of what you are saying, not just what you are implying.

I'm not surprise at him, for someone who connects global warming on the Great Flood of the Bible, geez

[Ghost Rider]

It's just straightforward being simple doesn't mean one is being simple Minded. People with other agenda tends to complicate things for their own gains. environmental zealots, anti-technology Luddites, utopian one-worlders, and population-control fanatics, but also by bureaucrats, businesses, brokers and bankers, who had learned how to game the system and profit from government grants and subsidies for exotic schemes to produce “carbon-free” energy and from the trading of carbon permits. Hundreds of billions have already been wasted — most of this in transfers of tax revenues to a favored few.

You think ending world hunger won't solve any problem? The highest education for all the children in the world wont produce good result? You give up all that to reduce the temperature by 2 degrees which you can easily solve by having a better fashion sense.

I'll take paenggoy's terms for this one.

What if we are right and you are wrong? Then its our end.

What if we are wrong and you are right? No harm, since we just help the planet's environment which make our live possible. It may help our resources to recover and discipline our people. We can learn new technologies that can produce power aside from fossil fuels. It will also help alot on our health aspect.

You choose.

I'm not saying we should not feed the poor and provide education, what I want to say is, we should look on the source and focus on it. Changes will happen as we fix those issues first. Long term planning is better than doing short-term ones. It is like you want to focus on the acute effects rather than fixing the problem which is chronic for now but in the future will bring much more problem.

[gungrust]

One of the things you choose to ignore or just completely forget, is that earth has been dead a few times already. Earth has been destroyed and killed quite a few times by solar flares, recurring ice ages, tectonic shifts that killed a lot of species, even human species. Or if you believe the bible, flooded to hell and back in 40 days.

Yet, life springs out.

The planet doesn't need saving. Even if all species dies at some point, new species will spring out that will adapt to the current situation of the planet. Mostly water? Ameobas. First land? ancient amphibeans. Ice Age? Mammoths and Sabre Tigers, Temperate Environment? We got dinosaurs. Earth will always produce and sustain species that can survive in its current condition.

If the planet is "killed" by plastic, and we all die, earth will at one point produce species that can be sustained with plastic. That's the real beauty of this planet. This Earth isn't actually the only planet that can sustain life. We found a planet that can sustain life too 26 light years away.

What is this "saving the planet" actually does is trying to maintain the planet to sustain Human life. Nothing more, nothing less. A very selfish and arrogant move by humanity.

[bagiw.boi]

in the greater scheme of things, you can't save the environment or even the earth from the forces surrounding our tiny world. man is insignificant, the earth a mere atom in the universe.



the earth can be blown to kingdom come at any time by a good sized asteroid, and recycling grocery plastic bags won't save it from destruction.

[bambi7]

^Seriously? Parang sinabi nyo na rin na wag na tayong kumain, wag na tayong magtrabaho, wag na mag-aral at gumawa ng kung anu-ano kasi tutal tatamaan tayo ng asteroid anytime. Sige hayaan na lang nating abusuhin ng tao ang kalikasan kasi sabagay mamamatay na din naman tayo. Hayaan na lang natin na ubusin ng mga tao ang mga puno at gawing bahayan ang mga bundok kasi ganun din naman. Hindi na ako maglilinis ng bahay mamaya, hindi na ako magluluto, hindi na ako babangon bukas ng umaga kasi wala namang kwenta ito.

[bambi7]

Sige, hayaan na lang natin ang mga ganito, kasi wala din naman kwenta ang save the environment, save the environment na yan.

[kuroihikari]

The point is not to continue dirtying up the environment. It's to stop spending so much on "green" technology that is going nowhere.

[bambi7]

The point is not to continue dirtying up the environment. It's to stop spending so much on "green" technology that is going nowhere.

I don't care what's behind those green technology politics, but I take the title of this thread as a wake up call for all us to act now before it's too late. Strictly impose zoning laws and don't turn all empty spaces into infrastructure. Tingnan mo kahit yung Marikina papuntang Rizal puro na subdivisions wala man lang lupang inilaan para sa mga forests.

[gungrust]

Awww, you're posting pictures now to get people's sympathy, how cute. You still don't get the point.

You're going on this crusade about saving the planet and suggesting ideas, but in the end, you are only masturbating your ego that you have contributed to saving the planet while actually do nothing to help.

If you want to save the environment, you can simply start by living frugally. It can do wonders more than you can think of compared to what you want to happen and a lot more closer to solving the real problem. Let humanity learn to take care of itself first before trying to help nature.

[bambi7]

Awww, you're posting pictures now to get people's sympathy, how cute. You still don't get the point.

You're going on this crusade about saving the planet and suggesting ideas, but in the end, you are only masturbating your ego that you have contributed to saving the planet while actually do nothing to help.

LOL. You don't know me and you don't know the many tree-planting activities I've joined. In my own simple way, I try to save the environment (sounds cheesy to naysayers, but I'll say it loud and proud) and create awareness even here in the internet. What about you? What have you done with the fact that our lands and resources are dwindling and many animal species are going extinct because of lack of discipline?

If you want to save the environment, you can simply start by living frugally. It can do wonders more than you can think of compared to what you want to happen and a lot more closer to solving the real problem.

Another LOL. You can't tell someone to live 'frugally' because humans are born to consume. It's embedded in our genes to consume. Sabi nga sa Bible, subdue all creation. It means we use nature for our sustenance. But we need to devise a plan that would create balance between consumption and preservation. And one way to do that is by limiting population and preserving forests so that we can continue using the lumbers, medicine, foods, clothes, and many other resources that we get from them.

Let humanity learn to take care of itself first before trying to help nature.

What exactly do you mean by 'taking care of itself'? The only way that humanity can 'take care of itself' is by taking care of nature because everything that we need for daily living, we get from nature. Punta ka dun sa Malabon. Dati pinagkukunan ng kabuhayan ng mga mangingisda ang dagat dun. Pero ngayon, puro iskwater na. Wala na silang pinagkakakitaan, bumaho pa ang kapaligiran nila.

I'm not saying we subscribe to advanced green technology concepts from the West, but we should at least exert an effort to do everything we can to preserve the environment. Baka dumating ang araw wala na tayong makain kasi puro naging bahayan na ang mga lupa sa Pilipinas. This is common sense. We take care of ourselves by taking care of nature.

[bagiw.boi]

^Seriously?

seriously. but which part of "in the greater scheme of things" don't you understand?

lemme ask you these though:

what exactly do you mean by "saving the environment" ?
what is "environment" to you?
and how is "saving the environment" achieved?

who knows, we might be on the same page after all.

Parang sinabi nyo na rin na wag na tayong kumain, wag na tayong magtrabaho, wag na mag-aral at gumawa ng kung anu-ano kasi tutal tatamaan tayo ng asteroid anytime. Sige hayaan na lang nating abusuhin ng tao ang kalikasan kasi sabagay mamamatay na din naman tayo. Hayaan na lang natin na ubusin ng mga tao ang mga puno at gawing bahayan ang mga bundok kasi ganun din naman. Hindi na ako maglilinis ng bahay mamaya, hindi na ako magluluto, hindi na ako babangon bukas ng umaga kasi wala namang kwenta ito.

i see a straw man there.

but all those "wag's" "hayaan's" and "hindi's" you mention are what i would call irresponsible behaviour.

i wouldn't call those something like "unsaving the environment," or not helping in "efforts to save the environment."