California Driver's Licenses for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS?

[mary_poppins]

Are you in favor or not?
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Driver's license bill close to a final OK
By Jim Sanders -- Bee Capitol Bureau
Published 2:15 a.m. PDT Wednesday, September 3, 2003

Amid angry accusations of racism and recall-election politics, legislation granting illegal immigrants the right to obtain California driver's licenses cleared the Assembly on Tuesday and appears certain to become state law.

The 44-30 party-line vote sparked more than two hours of heated debate, with Assembly Democrats claiming SB 60 will make the state's roads safer and Republicans blasting the bill as a crass attempt to court the Latino vote in the upcoming gubernatorial recall election.

The measure, one of California's most significant immigrant-related bills in years, needs only Senate concurrence in amendments and Gov. Gray Davis' signature. Senate officials said Tuesday they expect passage, and Russell Lopez, Davis' spokesman, said the governor will sign SB 60.

"I have a sense that we're at a point where we're no longer waiting for the perfect time -- the perfect time is now," said Sen. Gilbert Cedillo, D-Los Angeles, who introduced SB 60 this year after his similar bill last year was vetoed by Davis because of security and other concerns.

The measure would affect an estimated 2 million undocumented immigrants who currently cannot obtain California driver's licenses or insurance because they don't have a Social Security number and can't prove they are legal residents.

SB 60 passed the Assembly only after Cedillo dropped a controversial plan to implement a high-tech fingerprint scanning system designed to heighten security by ensuring that nobody obtains more than one license by using false identities.

Though Davis supported the high-tech, biometric system, critics noted it could cost more than $50 million and create a database containing millions of digitized fingerprints that, if privacy laws ever changed, could be used in ways that would intrude on motorists' civil rights.

Lopez said the governor supports SB 60 even without the biometric system.

"The bill as written is better than nothing at all," Lopez said.

"We're looking at it from a public safety perspective," Lopez added. "We need to get these (immigrants) -- who are already out on the street driving and endangering other people's lives -- we need to get them trained and get them insured."

Under SB 60, instead of a Social Security number, illegal immigrants could qualify for a driver's license by providing a federal taxpayer identification number and a combination of other documents -- such as a birth certificate, foreign driver's license, foreign passport or a matricula consular card issued by the government of Mexico.

Applicants also would have to provide a thumbprint or fingerprint, as California drivers do now, but such prints could not be used by the Immigration and Naturalization Service to determine an applicant's residency status.

SB 60 also would require undocumented immigrants to provide proof that they reside in California, such as a water bill or rental receipt. But it does not require them to have lived in the state for a specific period of time.

SB 60 supporters said the bill is long overdue and would allow undocumented immigrants, many of them longtime residents, to drive to work or take their children to school without fear of having their vehicles confiscated if they are stopped by police.

Cedillo and other supporters say undocumented immigrants had similar rights in California before the law was changed in 1993. But critics said SB 60 does not contain adequate security measures and could open the door to increased terrorism, identity theft and voter fraud.

"The terrorist attacks of Sept. 11th demand that California bolster -- not weaken -- the security features of the driver's license application process," said Assembly Minority leader Dave Cox.

Assemblyman Dennis Mountjoy, R-Monrovia, said the state owes undocumented immigrants nothing.

"Because they're illegal, they ought to be sent home -- we ought not give them benefits," Mountjoy said.

But Assemblywoman Jackie Goldberg, D-Los Angeles, said opponents of SB 60 are being hypocritical because they don't complain when undocumented workers clean houses, wash cars or do other unpopular but necessary jobs.

"It's all right to exploit them for work, but they don't want them to have rights," she said.

Unlike last year, Davis no longer is demanding that undocumented immigrants be in the process of obtaining citizenship, undergo criminal background checks or provide proof that they have lived and worked in California for a specified period.

Mountjoy and others accused the governor of pandering to political interests as the Oct. 7 recall election nears.

"It's his last grasp at keeping the governorship," Mountjoy said.

Lopez denied that gubernatorial politics had anything to do with Davis' stand.

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[heymikey]

Originally said by Assemblyman Dennis Mountjoy
"Because they're illegal, they ought to be sent home -- we ought not give them benefits"

Very well said.

[mary_poppins]

I don't agree with this at all! It will encourage illegal immigration!

[mary_poppins]

"This measure rewards people for breaking immigration law, while at the same time penalizing those who follow and obey our laws," said Sen. Rico Oller, R-San Andreas.

[crazy legs]

It might encourage illegals to drive.

In the DMV they say driving is a privilege not a right.

Davis didn't want this bill then. Now he wanted it. Is it because of the recall? Most likely.

[heymikey]

I remember Arnold Schwarzenegger say that he is against this. I guess I'm liking him even more (just a little bit though), even though I don't live in California.

[f0r5aK3n]

Originally posted by mary_poppins
I don't agree with this at all! It will encourage illegal immigration!

I agree! Now, instead of jumping the fence, they can drive through it!

[mary_poppins]

Living without a license: It's an art
For undocumented workers like Jaime, bill's a major relief.
By Emily Bazar -- Bee Capitol Bureau
Published 2:15 a.m. PDT Friday, September 5, 2003

Every day, Jaime crisscrosses the region in one of his two Ford trucks, whizzing to Roseville, Davis, Rancho Cordova and other locales for work.

Jaime, a Mexican immigrant, owns a landscaping business. But he doesn't have a driver's license and hasn't had one for the seven years he's been driving in California.

Jaime, 52, is among the estimated 2 million Californians who stand to benefit from a bill Gov. Gray Davis is expected to sign this weekend that will allow undocumented immigrants to obtain driver's licenses. More than a dozen other states already have such provisions, as did California until 1994.

The landscaper also represents the countless undocumented immigrants who say driver's licenses are critical to their lives, jobs and families, not to mention to the well-being of all California drivers who want safer roads.

"A car is very important. It's a necessity. No car, no work. Nothing." said Jaime, who asked to be identified by his first name because he's living here illegally.

Undocumented immigrants such as Jaime have found themselves at the center of a debate over how vital their jobs -- and their need for driver's licenses -- are to the economy.

Proponents of the bill argue that immigrants need cars to get to their jobs, and that roads will become safer when illegal immigrants receive driver's training and car insurance.

Opponents counter that the measure will compromise security because licenses can easily be faked. They also fear that giving licenses to undocumented immigrants rewards them for breaking the law and coming to the United States without papers.

It's a debate that exposes Californians' inconsistent attitudes toward its illegal residents.

"We have this ambivalent view of undocumented immigrants," said Kevin Johnson, associate dean at the University of California, Davis, law school. "They live and work in society. At the same time, we don't want to give them any of the benefits, or the small amount of security that something as basic as an identification would give them."

Undocumented immigrants in the state use public services and institutions. But they also contribute billions of dollars to the economy every year, said UCLA economist Chris Thornberg.
Like Jaime, they mow our lawns. They pick and package our food. They baby-sit our children. They build our houses. And they clean our bathrooms.

Immigrant advocates hail the driver's license measure as an overdue acknowledgment of those contributions. And they point to other possible benefits from the legislation, such as a gradual drop in car insurance rates. To obtain insurance, motorists must have a driver's license.

According to Michael Gunning, senior legislative advocate for the Personal Insurance Federation of California, as the number of insured drivers rises, the cost Californians bear for uninsured drivers is expected to decrease.

"There is a need for us to be honest with our relationship with the immigrant community," said state Sen. Gil Cedillo, D-Los Angeles, author of SB 60. "We rely on them to be the foundation of our economy. They're much of the reason why we're the fifth-largest economy in the world."

Some opponents question that argument.
"Slave owners said slaves are a critical part of our economy. 'They're picking the cotton. The economy would collapse without them.' That's a bogus argument," said Craig Nelsen, director of Friends of Immigration Law Enforcement.
"There would be enough Americans" to do the jobs undocumented immigrants do, he said.

For decades, illegal immigrants were allowed to obtain driver's licenses in California, but beginning in 1994, immigrants had to prove they were here legally.

The Legislature imposed the new requirement intending to stem the tide of illegal immigration. Shortly afterward, voters approved Proposition 187, the anti-illegal immigration initiative.

Still, Cedillo said, immigrants continued to come. And many drove without licenses or insurance, unable to pay for accidents and in constant fear of being pulled over by the police.

Under the new rules, which will take effect Jan. 1 if Davis signs the bill, illegal immigrants won't have to prove legal residency. Instead, they must provide a federal taxpayer identification number and a combination of other documents.

At least 14 other states allow driver's licenses without regard to immigration status, said Tyler Moran, policy analyst for the National Immigration Law Center.

Just because other states do it doesn't make it right, said Ira Mehlman, a Los Angeles-based spokesman for the Federation for American Immigration Reform.

He said it's "laughable" to think roads will become safer or insurance rates will drop when this measure is implemented.
"If you have no assets and are not inclined to obey the law, anyway, why would you get insurance?" Mehlman asked.
He added that California could become less safe because more people will be obtaining fake licenses. "The state might be ratifying the false identities," he said.

Davis was confronted with the security issue Thursday at a town hall meeting in San Diego, when he was asked why the bill didn't require background checks.

"I don't get your point," the Democratic governor responded. "These people are here right now. They're contributing to our economy. They're taking jobs and no one's giving them background checks."

Internal Revenue Service officials have expressed concerns about using the taxpayer ID for anything other than tax processing, saying it could pose a potential security risk.
They're worried because they don't verify the identities of those who apply for taxpayer IDs, said Bill Steiner, IRS spokesman in Northern California.

"It (the ID number) doesn't entitle them to a driver's license, it doesn't entitle them to a job, it doesn't change their immigration status," Steiner said. "It is merely a tax number."

While the threat of deportation is always a possibility, many undocumented immigrants say the benefits of having a driver's license outweigh concerns about giving information to the IRS and Department of Motor Vehicles.

Jaime, the father of four, came to the United States seeking economic opportunity. Without a car, he said, he can't work.
"It's worth the risk," said Jaime, his hands showing the years of manual labor. "All I've done is work and be a good citizen. "
IRS and DMV officials said neither agency shares information with immigration authorities.

"We don't turn people in for being undocumented," said DMV spokesman Bill Branch. "We don't supply information to (immigration authorities) and never have."

Shrugging off concerns about possible deportation, Jaime said he's looking forward to having a license so he can purchase insurance and obtain peace of mind.

"If I had a driver's license, I wouldn't be worried" about being pulled over, said Jaime, who has gone out of his way to avoid sobriety checkpoints where police ask to see driver's licenses.
Martha Monje, 41, of East Palo Alto came to California from Mexico in 1976. For about 15 years, she drove without a license.
But she obtained one right before the rules changed in 1994. When she recently attempted to renew her license, officials discovered she's not living in the United States legally.

Unless Davis signs SB 60 -- or Monje receives her green card -- her license won't be renewed.

Anyone pulled over without a driver's license will be cited and have their car impounded, California Highway Patrol officials said.
"If they stop me and I don't have a license, they're going to take my car away," Monje said. "I'm the one who takes my kids to school and picks them up."

[mary_poppins]

Originally posted by crazy legs

Davis didn't want this bill then. Now he wanted it. Is it because of the recall? Most likely.

Yup..that's what they all say - that it's politically motivated.

[crazy legs]

With a driver's license they would not be undocumented anymore. They will be documented.

Is it demented?

Bustamante says it will help illegals go to their jobs, or maybe get jobs which require driving.

[Rosanna]

Originally posted by crazy legs
With a driver's license they would not be undocumented anymore. They will be documented.

Is it demented?

Bustamante says it will help illegals go to their jobs, or maybe get jobs which require driving.

Nah ... it will make them an undocumented alien with a driver's license ... undocumented means they don't have a valid visa to stay in the USA.

[dudelish]

gad. what's up with the bleeding heart drama of that writer? "Living without a license: It's an art
For undocumented workers like Jaime, bill's a major relief." Give me a frickin break.

davis is clearly pandering for votes on the recall. the guy has the transexual law, now this.

what about insurance? if they get pulled over, is it still illegal to drive without an insurance? i mean, if you're illegal, can you have insurance on your car?

after 9/11 one would think borders will be secured, or at least illegal immigration is watched. these damn ultrableeding heart liberals. they're whackjobs! since when is a driver's license a human right?

in any case, i'm getting another license under a different name, just for kicks. i can then use that to buy porn. i look like mexican anyways, me just peke dee accent, si? mi nombre es Fernando Jose.

[Crusher]

This is the most blatant political pandering by a desperate grabbing-at-straws Davis! Davis is practically endorsing hiring of illegal immigrants. He was opposed to this bill before and now becaise his political career is at stake on the recall election, he is resorting to this tactic of gaining the Mexican votes.

others keep harping on the "reality" issue that there are illegals working in the US and that they need to drive to do work and therefore they need the license to drive.

They are illegals! Thery should not be allowed to work in the first place! The reality is they cannot enforce this no hiring of illegals.
Same thing that the Philippines find it difficult to stop squatters from occupying lands illegally, or sidewalk vendors encroaching on public sidewalks.

I hope this whole thing backfires on him. I hope the Latino legal immigrants who can vote will see through all this and vote for Davis' recall.

[Rosanna]

Originally posted by Crusher
This is the most blatant political pandering by a desperate grabbing-at-straws Davis! Davis is practically endorsing hiring of illegal immigrants. He was opposed to this bill before and now becaise his political career is at stake on the recall election, he is resorting to this tactic of gaining the Mexican votes.

others keep harping on the "reality" issue that there are illegals working in the US and that they need to drive to do work and therefore they need the license to drive.

They are illegals! Thery should not be allowed to work in the first place! The reality is they cannot enforce this no hiring of illegals.
Same thing that the Philippines find it difficult to stop squatters from occupying lands illegally, or sidewalk vendors encroaching on public sidewalks.

I hope this whole thing backfires on him. I hope the Latino legal immigrants who can vote will see through all this and vote for Davis' recall.

Hmmmnnn ... might be a real problem there, getting the Latino legal immigrants vote. There is no such thing, well maybe the handful that naturalize get US citizenship each year would meet your criteria. Now, the Latino natural born is the bulk of the 16% Latino vote, which will indeed vote for Davis on the first question, vote for Bustamante on the second question and possibly vote NO on the two propositions should they pass muster and make it to the ballot.

[Mickey2000]

what's next SSS number for Illegal alien so they can apply for a driver's license

[dudelish]

California's Driver License Bill Opens Door to Voter Fraud and Illegal Gun Sales
Eric Leonard
Friday, September 5, 2003
LOS ANGELES -- California Gov. Gray Davis' quietly announced to the Spanish-language media that he will sign the controversial bill allowing illegal aliens to obtain driver's licenses.

This as critics in Davis' own state government condemned the bill for endangering the public and the electoral process by enabling illegal aliens to fraudulently vote and unlawfully purchase firearms.


SB-60, revived this year after similar bills were vetoed in 2001 and 2002, would allow 'undocumented immigrants' to apply for state-issued driver's licenses using foreign birth documents and IRS taxpayer identification numbers in lieu of previously required U.S. birth certificates and social security numbers.


The licenses issued under the proposed law would carry no indication the applicant was not a legal resident. That, critics say, will create a host of problems they say bill supporters have failed to address.


Voter Fraud Expected


A driver's license is the only official document needed to register to vote, according to the Registrar of Voters office in Los Angeles County, California. A spokesperson there said that's because, until now, a valid license was a clear indication of legal residency.


The Registrars office confirms an illegal alien, license in hand, would simply have to lie in response to the citizenship question on the voter registration form in order to begin voting.


The office said they have no way to verify whether or not an applicant is a citizen. Voter registration forms are signed under penalty of perjury, they said, and the citizenship question is simply answered, "on the honor system."


Officials at the office could not recall a single instance of a registered voter being prosecuted for perjury.


Additionally, California's motor-voter law enables driver's license applicants to simultaneously register to vote. The new license bill has no provisions to limit or remove the automatic voter registration process from the applications.


Door Open for Illegal Gun Sales


Illegal aliens have been prohibited from buying or transferring firearms since the passage of the federal Gun Control Act in 1968, but federal law enforcement sources warn the driver's license bill will enable illegals to complete seemingly-legitimate gun purchases.


Just like the voter registration documents, California gun transfer forms rely on the honor system to establish citizenship.


"If they lie on their dealer record of sale and say, 'yes they are a citizen,' when they are not, there is ... not going to be a further check completed," said Hallye Jordan, a spokesperson for the California Department of Justice.


Sources inside the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms said the implications of the new driver's license rules are especially alarming in Southern California, where they say rings of traffickers smuggle weapons from the U.S. into Mexico, where the guns are sold at inflated prices on the black market.


Currently, agents say the smuggling rings often buy stolen weapons and use 'straw purchasers' to obtain firearms. Under the rules in the new law, they say the smugglers, which are most often Mexican nationals who have crossed into the U.S. illegally, will simply obtain a 'clean' and legitimate driver license, and buy the guns legally.


Problems With the Bill


State Senator and Republican recall candidate Tom McClintock said Thursday Colorado has already passed a law rejecting the validity of California driver's licenses should Gov. Davis sign the bill.


He said the law means California licenses could no longer be used for identification or driving in Colorado after the California bill takes effect next year.


A spokesperson for California Attorney General Bill Lockyer said this week their office withdrew support for the bill after lawmakers removed provisions for electronic fingerprinting of applicants, and last week, Department of Motor Vehicles investigators warned passage would lead to rampant identity fraud.


"As peace officers, we are concerned that there are already a great number of ways to illegally obtain a DMV license," DMV Investigators Association president Richard Carillo told the Sacramento Bee newspaper.


"SB 60 doesn't require comparison of prints or documents from non-citizens with their supposed nation of origin; nor does it allow for the DMV to verify prints that should be on file with federal immigration authorities."


On August 9, the Internal Revenue Service cautioned TINs, or Taxpayer Identification Numbers, are an unsuitable source of valid identification.


"If your state is considering legislation to accept (individual taxpayer identification numbers) as proof of identity for driver's licenses, please alert your legislators to potential security risks," says a letter from IRS administrators.

[balut]

you just know that davis is really desperate if hes signing a bill like this... hes trying to garner as much support as possible from the mexicans (who btw are the majority in california) so he could stay in power.

[f0r5aK3n]

Originally posted by Mickey2000
what's next SSS number for Illegal alien so they can apply for a driver's license

well... not illegal aliens perhaps, but in other States, US tourists are allowed to apply for an SS Card and will be given one. However, there is a stamp in big, red, ink that'll say 'NOT VALID FOR EMPLOYMENT

[Rosanna]

Originally posted by balut
you just know that davis is really desperate if hes signing a bill like this... hes trying to garner as much support as possible from the mexicans (who btw are the majority in california) so he could stay in power.

OK ... what is your basis for saying the Mexicans are the majority in California?

[mary_poppins]

Group seeks to overturn license law
Opponents want a voter referendum on the illegal immigrant measure.

By Emily Bazar -- Bee Capitol Bureau
Published 2:15 a.m. PDT Tuesday, September 9, 2003

Opponents of a new law that will allow an estimated 2 million illegal immigrants to obtain driver's licenses will ask California voters to overturn the measure, a process that threw the status of the bill into question Monday.
Just three days after the law was signed by Gov. Gray Davis, officials with the conservative California Republican Assembly (CRA) filed papers to initiate the process of placing a referendum on the March 2004 ballot.

As a result, it wasn't clear whether the Department of Motor Vehicles could move forward to implement the provisions of SB 60, which is scheduled to take effect Jan. 1.

"If this law takes effect, the California driver's license, now held by millions of Californians, will be rendered useless as proof of legal residency," said state Sen. Tom McClintock, a Republican who is running for governor and has been endorsed by the CRA.

Sean Walsh, a spokesman for Republican gubernatorial candidate Arnold Schwarzenegger, said the actor has no plans to join the referendum movement even though he opposed the bill.

"It's ironic that while other states are tightening up their licensing requirements in the wake of September 11, California is moving in exactly the opposite direction," McClintock said at a Capitol press conference.

But state Sen. Gil Cedillo, the measure's author, called the move to place a referendum on the ballot "unfortunate" and said repealing SB 60 would compromise safety.

The Los Angeles Democrat and supporters of the license bill argue that allowing undocumented immigrants to obtain driver's licenses will make roads safer because they will receive driver's training and car insurance. "It's unfortunate that people are choosing to play politics with highway safety," Cedillo said.

He said his office, in conjunction with the Department of Motor Vehicles, will begin preparing for the law to take effect "until we're told not to."

Referendums, which are used infrequently, allow voters to decide whether a specific bill passed by the Legislature should be allowed to become law. Between 1912 and 1999, 39 referendums qualified for votes, said Hallye Jordan, a spokeswoman for Attorney General Bill Lockyer. Of those, 25 prevented bills passed by the Legislature from taking effect, she said.

Propositions 29, 30 and 31 in 2000 were the last referendums to appear before state voters. Voters rejected Propositions 30 and 31, for instance, which would have expanded the rights of individuals to sue insurance firms.

In the case of the new driver's license law, referendum proponents have 90 days from Monday to obtain 373,816 signatures from registered voters.

CRA officials didn't say how they would raise the money to fund a petition-gathering campaign, or how much they believe it will cost. But they already have set up a Web site - www.SaveOurLicense.com -- where they're gathering names of Californians willing to circulate petitions.

SB 60 has inflamed passions across the state. Illegal immigrants were allowed to obtain driver's licenses in California until 1994, when the Legislature required immigrants to prove they were here legally when applying for a license.

Immigrant advocates have since worked to change the law back. But opponents fear that licenses will reward undocumented immigrants for coming to the United States illegally.

Tempers flared Monday when Bob Mulholland, a California Democratic Party spokesman, crashed the CRA press conference. He and proponents of the referendum shouted insults at each other, including "wimps," "moron" and "Baghdad Bob."

"When Republicans see an opportunity to bash Latinos, they'll take it," Mulholland said of the proponents of the referendum. "They'll do it every time."

A talk radio host countered that Californians are concerned driver's licenses will allow undocumented immigrants to vote, even though they're not citizens.

This bill is about "getting 3 million illegal aliens registered as Democrats to hijack the electoral process of the state of California," said KFBK's Mark Williams. "The day this law takes effect, you'll see buses chartered by the Democrats, and Bob Mulholland there, going around to every barrio and work camp in the state to register new voters."

Assistant Secretary of State Terri Carbaugh said there is no evidence that noncitizens vote illegally. She acknowledged that county election offices don't check potential voters' citizenship status when they register.

"We are confident that when people register to vote, that they are fully informed and made aware that they must be a citizen and a California resident," she said. "They're signing under penalty of perjury."

Carbaugh added it remains unclear what will happen to the status of SB 60 while the referendum process is under way, and whether the DMV can plan for implementation. By law, SB 60 will be stayed once signature gathering starts, she said.

Russ Lopez, a spokesman for the Democratic governor, agreed many questions need to be answered. "We don't know if and how we would be involved," he said. "All we know is ... we support the bill. We support public safety. We recognize that these immigrants have given a lot to this state and we should give something back in return."