To All Unbelievers (those who doesnt believe that there is God)......

[Akolage]

.....anong gagawin nyo kung napatunayang may Jesus Christ talaga, maniniwala na ba kayong may Dios o hindi parin?

Thank you.....

[Akolage]

ARTIFACT CALLED EVIDENCE OF JESUS
Ancient inscription appeals to experts

WASHINGTON (AP) - An inscription on a burial artifact that was recently discovered in Israel appears to provide the oldest archeological evidence of Jesus Christ, says an expert who dates the artifact to three decades after the crucifixion.

Writing in the new issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, Andre Lemaire, a French specialist in ancient inscriptions, says it is "very probable" the find is a reference to Jesus of Nazareth.

Rev. Joseph Fitzmyer, a Bible professor at Catholic University who studied photos of the box, agrees with Lemaire that the writing style "fits perfectly" with other first-century examples. The joint appearance of these three famous names is "striking," he said.

"But the big problem is, you have to show me the Jesus in this text is Jesus of Nazareth, and nobody can show that," Fitzmyer said.

That Jesus existed is not doubted by scholars, but what the world knows about him comes almost entirely from the New Testament. No physical artifact from the first century related to Jesus has been discovered and verified. Lemaire believes that has changed, though questions remain, such as where the piece with the inscription has been for 19 centuries.

The inscription, in the Aramaic language, appears on an empty ossuary, or limestone burial box for bones. It reads: James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus." Lemaire dates the object to 63 A.D.

Lemaire says the writing style, and the fact Jews practised ossuary burials only between 20 B.C. and A.D. 70, puts the inscription squarely in the time of Jesus.

It's impossible, however, to prove absolutely that the Jesus named on the box was Jesus of Nazareth.
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So well then its just up to us to believe what the Bible says.....?

[freakster2k1]

the problem is not whether Jesus existed but whether he is part of the trinity. Whether he is God. I dont see the connection between a tomb and God; maybe i am blind

[IMAlive]

how about when Jesus said He is the Way to God the Father?

[little_witch]

alam mo.. sabi nga nila... kung kunyari atheist ka at namatay ka.. tapos pag dating mo sa langit o kung saan man nalaman mo na walang dyos -- walang mawawala sayo....

pero.. kung atheist ka at namatay ka... pag dating mo sa langit nalaman mo na may Dyos pala -- maraming mawawala sayo...

ponder upon this.

[Ischaramoochie]

by Bertrand Russell

from Fact and Fiction, 1961

The eminent theologian Dr. Thaddeus dreamt that he died and pursued his course toward heaven. His studies had prepared him and he had no difficulty in finding the way. He knocked at the door of heaven, and was met with a closer scrutiny than he expected. "I ask admission," he said, "because I was a good man and devoted my life to the glory of God." "Man?" said the janitor, "What is that? And how could such a funny creature as you do anything to promote the glory of God?" Dr. Thaddeus was astonished. "You surely cannot be ignorant of man. You must be aware that man is the supreme work of the Creator." "As to that," said the janitor, "I am sorry to hurt your feelings, but what you're saying is news to me. I doubt if anybody up here has ever heard of this thing you call 'man.' However, since you seem distressed, you shall have a chance of consulting our librarian."

The librarian, a globular being with a thousand eyes and one mouth, bent some of his eyes upon Dr. Thaddeus. "What is this?" he asked the janitor. "This," replied the janitor, "says that it is a member of a species called 'man,' which lives in a place called 'Earth.' It has some odd notion that the Creator takes a special interest in this place and this species. I thought perhaps you could enlighten it." "Well," said the librarian kindly to the theologian, "perhaps you can tall me where this place is that you call 'Earth.'" "Oh," said the theologian, "it's part of the Solar System." "And what is the Solar System?" asked the librarian. "Oh," said the theologian, somewhat disconcerted, "my province was Sacred Knowledge, but the question that you are asking belongs to profane knowledge. However, I have learnt enough from my astronomical friends to be able to tell you that the Solar System is part of the Milky Way." "And what is the Milky Way?" asked the librarian. "Oh, the Milky Way is one of the Galaxies, of which, I am told, there are some hundred million." "Well, well," said the librarian, "you could hardly expect me to remember one out of so many. But I do remember to have heard the word galaxy' before. In fact, I believe that one of our sub-librarians specializes in galaxies. Let us send for him and see whether he can help."

After no very long time, the galactic sub-librarian made his appearance. In shape, he was a dodecahedron. It was clear that at one time his surface had been bright, but the dust of the shelves had rendered him dim and opaque. The librarian explained to him that Dr. Thaddeus, in endeavoring to account for his origin, had mentioned galaxies, and it was hoped that information could be obtained from the galactic section of the library. "Well," said the sub-librarian, "I suppose it might become possible in time, but as there are a hundred million galaxies, and each has a volume to itself, it takes some time to find any particular volume. Which is it that this odd molecule desires?" "It is the one called 'The Milky Way,'" Dr. Thaddeus falteringly replied. "All right," said the sub- librarian, "I will find it if I can."

Some three weeks later, he returned, explaining that the extraordinarily efficient card index in the galactic section of the library had enabled him to locate the galaxy as number QX 321,762. "We have employed," he said, "all the five thousand clerks in the galactic section on this search. Perhaps you would like to see the clerk who is specially concerned with the galaxy in question?" The clerk was sent for and turned out to be an octahedron with an eye in each face and a mouth in one of them. He was surprised and dazed to find himself in such a glittering region, away from the shadowy limbo of his shelves. Pulling himself together, he asked, rather shyly, "What is it you wish to know about my galaxy?" Dr. Thaddeus spoke up: "What I want is to know about the Solar System, a collection of heavenly bodies revolving about one of the stars in your galaxy. The star about which they revolve is called 'the Sun.'" "Humph," said the librarian of the Milky Way, "it was hard enough to hit upon the right galaxy, but to hit upon the right star in the galaxy is far more difficult. I know that there are about three hundred billion stars in the galaxy, but I have no knowledge, myself, that would distinguish one of them from another. I believe, however, that at one time a list of the whole three hundred billion was demanded by the Administration and that it is still stored in the basement. If you think it worth while, I will engage special labor from the Other Place to search for this particular star."

It was agreed that, since the question had arisen and since Dr. Thaddeus was evidently suffering some distress, this might be the wisest course.

Several years later, a very weary and dispirited tetrahedron presented himself before the galactic sub-librarian. "I have," he said, "at last discovered the particular star concerning which inquiries have been made, but I am quite at a loss to imagine why it has aroused any special interest. It closely resembles a great many other stars in the same galaxy. It is of average size and temperature, and is surrounded by very much smaller bodies called 'planets.' After minute investigation, I discovered that some, at least, of these planets have parasites, and I think that this thing which has been making inquiries must be one of them."

At this point, Dr. Thaddeus burst out in a passionate and indignant lament: "Why, oh why, did the Creator conceal from us poor inhabitants of Earth that it was not we who prompted Him to create the Heavens? Throughout my long life, I have served Him diligently, believing that He would notice my service and reward me with Eternal Bliss. And now, it seems that He was not even aware that I existed. You tell me that I am an infinitesimal animalcule on a tiny body revolving round an insignificant member of a collection of three hundred billion stars, which is only one of many millions of such collections. I cannot bear it, and can no longer adore my Creator." "Very well," said the janitor, "then you can go to the Other Place."

Here the theologian awoke. "The power of Satan over our sleeping imagination is terrifying," he muttered.

[Akolage]

hmm naghihintay parin ako sa mga pexers na hindi naniniwala sa Dios.....

gusto ko ring malaman ang kanilang opinion....

sa inyong mga sumagot, isa ba sa inyo ay atheist? hintay parin akolage.....

[SPeCTRaL_SHaDoW]

wala akong gagawin...maiirita lang ako kasi useless pala buong buhay ko kasi kahit anong mangyari ang diyos ng kristiyano rin pala ang masusunod? ganon naman yung nakasulat sa bibliya diba?...eh di kung totoo yun, talagang pinaglalaruan lang tayo...gumawa ng tao ang diyos para mahalin siya tapos pagkatapos ng lahat, siya pa rin masusunod...meron ngang free will pero planado niya lahat...

[freakster2k1]

iamalive:

still is not proof. i can say that too, but it doesnt mean i am the bridge to salvation. unless u want to be the first member of my new religion or cult.

littlewitch:

haha. tagalog version ng pascal wager. e di sa tagalog. pustahan ni mamang paskal? <-- korny.

ischaramoochie:

Russell is burning in hell.

akolage:

ur question is tricky. i am not an atheist, but i am not a theist either. and now i know i am not an agnostic. So fit ba ako sa criteria mo?

[Akolage]

Originally posted by SPeCTRaL_SHaDoW
wala akong gagawin...maiirita lang ako kasi useless pala buong buhay ko kasi kahit anong mangyari ang diyos ng kristiyano rin pala ang masusunod? ganon naman yung nakasulat sa bibliya diba?...eh di kung totoo yun, talagang pinaglalaruan lang tayo...gumawa ng tao ang diyos para mahalin siya tapos pagkatapos ng lahat, siya pa rin masusunod...meron ngang free will pero planado niya lahat...

okaay im listening.......

akolage:

ur question is tricky. i am not an atheist, but i am not a theist either. and now i know i am not an agnostic. So fit ba ako sa criteria mo?

yeah naman. pwede na. so anong sa tingin mo at masasabi mo kung malaman mong may Dios talaga o totoo si kristo? pero oks lang kung di mo masasagot, naiintindihan ko naman e, mixed emotion ka.... parang bang ipit ka ngayon? just try it if you want...

BTW, i hope binago ko nalang yung buong thread ko, mas gusto ko sana yung gumawa nalang ako ng "PAANO KUNG MALAMAN MONG TOTOO PALA ITO:" thread. (pano kung ......si manalo ay totong anghel, tama pala ang sumamba sa mga rebulto, si eli soriano ay totoo palang sugo ng Dios, and then vise versa......) u know such as that....

hehe what do you think peeps? marami na akong na-open kasing threads eh.. meron ba sa inyo dyan na gusto ang idea ko? (pa off topic muna)

peace!

[freakster2k1]

no. i am not confused at all. When i said: i dont believe in theism, atheism and agnosticism, i am not being a skeptic at all. It seems pardoxical that i claim i am not a skeptic but yet i hold no standard position, its just i find the question of God nonsensical. Thus, to hold an opinion on the matter will make u nonsensical too.

[raggster]

Originally posted by freakster2k1
no. i am not confused at all. When i said: i dont believe in theism, atheism and agnosticism, i am not being a skeptic at all. It seems pardoxical that i claim i am not a skeptic but yet i hold no standard position, its just i find the question of God nonsensical. Thus, to hold an opinion on the matter will make u nonsensical too.

all right, now I'M confused. didn't you have an opinion as to the subjectivity of the God-experience as a personal relationship, and nothing more beyond that?

[freakster2k1]

yup. but atheists and theists usually dont stop at the personal level: they usually proclaim objective truths which is illogical. As long as they say I believe ____ then they are not commiting logical error. But if they claim that they have truths, as they claim then there is something wrong.

the problem is semantics. Or its me. either one will do.

[raggster]

ah i see.

so the error is in the opinion of possessing a sort of "absolute truth," then? do i understand this correctly?

so there's nothing wrong with sharing one's faith in a community, for so long as no one dictates morality and belief?

[nymia]

Originally posted by little_witch
alam mo.. sabi nga nila... kung kunyari atheist ka at namatay ka.. tapos pag dating mo sa langit o kung saan man nalaman mo na walang dyos -- walang mawawala sayo....

pero.. kung atheist ka at namatay ka... pag dating mo sa langit nalaman mo na may Dyos pala -- maraming mawawala sayo...

ponder upon this.

I'm pondering about heaven, you assumed the existence of heaven as if you are certainly sure heaven exists.

What made you believe there was heaven? How did you arrive at that conclusion that there is, indeed, heaven? Ask yourself these questions.

Call me a skeptic, but there was no heaven proven outside of the Book, though.

[little_witch]

Originally posted by nymia
I'm pondering about heaven, you assumed the existence of heaven as if you are certainly sure heaven exists.

What made you believe there was heaven? How did you arrive at that conclusion that there is, indeed, heaven? Ask yourself these questions.

Call me a skeptic, but there was no heaven proven outside of the Book, though.

so, now, there's no heaven.

ok. let me put it this way. there's no point arguing with theists, atheists, agnostics, muslims, etc. because at the end of all the debate, no one REALLY wins.. (unless of course we are all given a chance to sneak-peak into the enigma of what's there after death, only then we could prove our beliefs or otherwise.)

what made me believe that there's heaven? simple. I believe in God.

[Shofixti]

Originally posted by nymia


I'm pondering about heaven, you assumed the existence of heaven as if you are certainly sure heaven exists.

What made you believe there was heaven? How did you arrive at that conclusion that there is, indeed, heaven? Ask yourself these questions.

Call me a skeptic, but there was no heaven proven outside of the Book, though.

I think because it is easier to believe in something than not believe in anything at all. It could bring peace and inner harmony. It gives purpose to life.

[freakster2k1]

raggster:

not absolute truth but objective truth. there is a difference between both types of truths.

Yeah, something like that. it is the only 'theory' i have that fits my experience. How i can drive my sister to church. how i can go out with someone who truly dispise religion and its theology including. it is how i can turn to my other sister and learn more about catholicism, and how i can escort my mom to a budhist temple. And finally it is also how i can incorporate all these, and eat ICE CREam. heheh

[raggster]

Originally posted by freakster2k1
raggster:

not absolute truth but objective truth. there is a difference between both types of truths.

well, from a human perspective, absolute truth IS objective truth. of course, the converse doesn't necessarily apply.

Yeah, something like that. it is the only 'theory' i have that fits my experience. How i can drive my sister to church. how i can go out with someone who truly dispise religion and its theology including. it is how i can turn to my other sister and learn more about catholicism, and how i can escort my mom to a budhist temple. And finally it is also how i can incorporate all these, and eat ICE CREam. heheh

hey, it's cool. similar perspectives tayo, only i'm still religious.

[freakster2k1]

Yup. yup.