new PEX marketing strategy --- boos and hoorays!

[abcxyz]

i do understand for the need for a new business model, well if not new, a better business model with the end objective of generating more if not real income for PEX, but is the current business model or marketing strategy the right one?

so you go to PEX and then you go to the threads ---- you get this message that goes something like this : "server is full, you cant log in. but you can avail of premium service to give you guaranteed log in"

well, first ---- the "server is full" message unintentionally communicates poor planning, that the PEX was unable to project the number of users. and bec i know PEX moved to ayala, the thought that came to my mind was --- well ayala screwed up.

to be honest, after reading that first sentence, i quit reading the whole thing and quit trying and did other things in the net. i didnt realize that there are other info in the message. in fact i read the whole thing only now, after seeng the message at least 12 times already.

then just today, i read the whole thing. ahhhhh, i told myself --- this is their effort to get paid subscribers into the service.

thats where i have problems with this new strategy of PEX to get paid subs.

> first of all, i beleive PEX has built a reputation of a cool, very open, very relaxed, young, free and very accomodating brand image. kaya nga "speak your mind". this marketing strategy. i believe is inconsistent with its brand image

> with this new strategy ---- get guaranteed space if you pay is an ABSOLUTE turn off for me. i didnt use to pay. so now to my mind, they have deteriorated their service. not only that, i feel now PEX does not really care for me. i feel bad that PEX is now being unkind to its loyal members. why penalize old and loyal members? why inconvenience old and loyal members?

> this sounds very much like the GLOBE (and smart) strategy on txt messages. they gave it away for free at the start to hook users into the texting habit. then when addicted, charged a fee. then recently, reduced the number of free txts. oh wait a minute ---- globe is owned by ayala. and pex??? hmmm ---they employed the same strategy. strategy : screw the consumer, just get the business.

heres an option for PEX : with the intent of gaining more paying members, and instead of penalyzing old and loyal members, why not offer a premium service that is BETTER THAN WHAT non-paying members get!!!???? be more creative and figure out what better things can paying members can get out of pex. thats better swervice and more extras.

in other words, offer POSITIVE and more benefits to paying members. that way, PEX does not give a wrong impression on their service, does not alienate current and loyal members and EXPANDS PEX service for the benefit of paying members. on the whole, everybody wins.

bottom line for me is this ---- PEX got lazy. PEX didnt want to think of new and creative ways to improve PEX. laziness is a bad marketing strategy.

[abcxyz]

i believe a marketing strategy is a good one if it is expansive, forward thinking, enriching.

[cs_NOGNOG]

i totally agree with what you said! :up:

the extra add-ons of the premium service are not enough to attract me to purchase it. the only reason i thought about it was that i couldn't get through kanina and I badly needed to be online.

i don't give a damn if i have a 100 PM mailbox, who cares if i don't have an avatar. all i wanna do is post!

there should be something more about being a premium member other than having a 100 PM mailbox!

am i just a whining "kid"? the hell i am!

[abcxyz]

PEX need to be more creative in developing new and esxciting product offerings. they need to go to the psyche of the poster.

[tadeus]

Just asking...

How many users can the PEx server can accomodate?

[abcxyz]

Originally posted by tadeus
Just asking...

How many users can the PEx server can accomodate? of course there are two possibilities here :

> unlike the server they used in the US, the Ayala server really has capacity limitations. so to make something out of this limitation and to attempt to make money out of it -- theyre asking members to pay up so they get gauranteed spot.

if the ayala server has actual limitations, makes you wonder why they transfered at all.

> or --- the server really has no limitations but its a self-imposed limitation to bully the other members to pay up.

regardless, both options does not sound right to its consumers. to me, it make PEX looks inefficient and/or greedy and/or bad marketers.

[Krakista]

Originally posted by abcxyz
PEX need to be more creative in developing new and esxciting product offerings. they need to go to the psyche of the poster. I think they do. I've met a lot of PExers who could easily afford to part their money for premium access. The question is when and why would they part with their money if they're still getting it free.

Btw, the user limit is also a limitation of the hardware/software used by PEx. The backend database is an open source solution. I could imagine if they could go beyond that limit, Oracle would be dead now.

[zimdude]

Historical Context

PEx, Inc. and the Business of PEx (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10708)

[payaSo]

Originally posted by abcxyz
PEX need to be more creative in developing new and esxciting product offerings. they need to go to the psyche of the poster.

Are the "posters" the only "customers" of this website?

I ask because I am more a reader than a poster. By reading the posts here I get entertainment, information, and knowledge. I would love to get all of that for free, but I also realize that someone has to pay the bills.

It seems to me that paying for access allows me to derive benefit from this website whenever I choose. If the price for that benefit is reasonable, then I am perfectly willing to pay.

[Leigh]

well, first ---- the "server is full" message unintentionally communicates poor planning, that the PEX was unable to project the number of users. and bec i know PEX moved to ayala, the thought that came to my mind was --- well ayala screwed up.

3 years ago, PEx was just a hobby, there were no projections on how many people are to log on because there was no commercial or ads that were put up to ask people to join PEx. 2 years ago, iAyala invested in PEx, Inc, the company that owned PinoyExchange.com and from 2000 uniques 2 years ago we have grown to 200,000 unique individuals accessing PinoyExchange, i hope you understand that it made a big difference. With the economic slump and the dotcom's bad publicity, PEx is one of those groups that is trying to survive. We appreciate every inch of support and criticism that we get, they make us believe more in our product, try to do better and offer more services to our members.

We actually know how many members we get per day, how many posts and threads we get per day, we have been keeping track of this since two years ago, we already have projections on how many members we'll be having by December. We have projected the number early January of this year. Like what we have mentioned before, right now we have a ceiling and we also have plans of upgrading as soon as more people start paying, same as more people trying to access the site.

When PEx transferred to Ayala Port, it wasn't an instant decision, we compared all the prices and all the benefits that we'll get, and we intentionally placed a ceiling on the simultaneous users, a lot of people complained about not being able to access PEx, the slow connection to the site and the like. This wasn't solely a business decision, we have also consulted some regular PExers and moderators on the case, on how members would react to it.

with this new strategy ---- get guaranteed space if you pay is an ABSOLUTE turn off for me. i didnt use to pay. so now to my mind, they have deteriorated their service. not only that, i feel now PEX does not really care for me. i feel bad that PEX is now being unkind to its loyal members. why penalize old and loyal members? why inconvenience old and loyal members?

Sorry if we gave you that impression. We never had the intention of "penalizing" old and loyal members. Like what we have mentioned in other threads similar to this, we have always taken into consideration comments from members, no matter how harsh and unfair these comments become, we still list them down and discuss the matter seriously. PEx is not stopping anybody to use PEx, by posting and speaking their minds, it's still free right? but right now, we need all the support we can get to help sustain the site, i remember that somebody posted what he thought the PEx needs were, and it was only like 1/5 of the needs that we have.

heres an option for PEX : with the intent of gaining more paying members, and instead of penalyzing old and loyal members, why not offer a premium service that is BETTER THAN WHAT non-paying members get!!!???? be more creative and figure out what better things can paying members can get out of pex. thats better swervice and more extras.

in other words, offer POSITIVE and more benefits to paying members. that way, PEX does not give a wrong impression on their service, does not alienate current and loyal members and EXPANDS PEX service for the benefit of paying members. on the whole, everybody wins.

Thank you for your suggestions and comments. That's actually what we're trying to do. :) We're actually adding more "incentives and add ons to Premium members" we just started with private threads where members can have their own secret diaries online.

i don't give a damn if i have a 100 PM mailbox, who cares if i don't have an avatar. all i wanna do is post!
there should be something more about being a premium member other than having a 100 PM mailbox!

am i just a whining "kid"? the hell i am!

cs_nognog, that's why we're slowly adding more features to our premium members, like what i mentioned above, we started with Private threads, eventually, we'll be giving more to our premium members.

zimdude - thanks for the historical context :)

[Kaboom!]

abcxyz:

I am one of the founders of this site so I will attempt to explain to the best of my ability our current situation since you've raised valid points. We appreciate your input as we all want this site to be around for a long time.

Basically, the growth of the site has exceeded all of our expectations and projections. This growth of the site has forced us to upgrade our server configurations 4 times since transferring to Rackspace in 2000. Every upgrade virtually doubled our hosting expenses up to our current 2 severs which both contain dual 1Ghz P3 processors with 1GB or Ram. We just decided that we could not just keep on upgrading and increase our expenses as the site continues to grow. You can check Rackspace and/or Ayalaport for the pricing for such servers so you can have a better idea for our hosting expenses.

We are using exactly the same configuration now with both our servers in Ayalaport compared to our U.S. host Rackspace. The difference is that we've put this ceiling for the concurrent number of users which gives you that message that turns you off whenever it's reached. Our Rackspace servers used to crash about once a week and/or slow down to a crawl at an unbearable level whenever it gets overloaded with users. There were many instances where PEx might as well have been down since it was so slow. This ceiling guarantees constant bearable speed and favors the pex plus members during the busy times which is the value we are trying to give. I wish we can continually upgrade but whatever servers we have now (which I feel can handle more than any other local site) is what we'll work around until some members financially support an upgrade.

The switch to Ayalaport will also enable us to offer dialup access to our members with a much faster connection to pinoyexchange.

There is no secret strategy to make members pay up. We're just hoping that the entertainment that members get from this site is enough for them to pay a fee similar to paying an entrance fee to a party or a movie or concert. Because if everyone gets it for free, it won't be around for long.

Maybe it was wrong to offer it free for starters but everyone else in the net (who are now all going out of business) was offering similar services for free so how can we compete if we charged a fee?

We thought that the avatars, signatures, bigger PM inbox, ability to start polls in threads, and the like were features that added to the pexing experience. Let us know if there are others that can be included to make the membership worth it.

Peace.

[cs_NOGNOG]

ahhh.. it feels good to get some answers.

i just hope more advertisers will see the light so poor guys like me will get this service for free. how about a PEx auction site? hehe

[cs_NOGNOG]

gusto ko yung suggestion ni Brownpau, PEx bottled water :lol:

[kNIGHT]

I completely thank PEx for giving me the chance to share my comments and reactions on the threads but if ever it becomes a paid service, I don't think the extra expense would have me continue to visit the site. I already have my monthly internet bill as well as the electricity used to have a connection at home and at these times wherein the economy of the country is bad....companies who put most of their expenses on the shoulders of the consumers would be the first to go. I will definitely find alternatives for this hobby of mine.

[supa_proxy]

I another thread, a Pex administrator mentioned that the hosting in RackSpace costs them around P150,000 a month. That's for the hosting alone. How about operational expenses like office rent, salary and other bills? With a workforce of around 15 - 20, PEx would have been burning almost half a million a month. That would be about P6 Million bucks a year!

If we are to take the Premium Service to compensate for all this, we will be needing between 5,000 - 6,000 subscribers for the Premium Membership. And now, how many Premium Members do we really have? 100? 200? Let's pray this number grows exponentially in a month or two lest we'll see more freebies go for pay. Or worse! :eek:

[abcxyz]

Originally posted by Leigh
Sorry if we gave you that impression. We never had the intention of "penalizing" old and loyal members. Like what we have mentioned in other threads similar to this, we have always taken into consideration comments from members, no matter how harsh and unfair these comments become, we still list them down and discuss the matter seriously. PEx is not stopping anybody to use PEx, by posting and speaking their minds, it's still free right? but right now, we need all the support we can get to help sustain the site, i remember that somebody posted what he thought the PEx needs were, and it was only like 1/5 of the needs that we have. thanks for your reply.

as mentioned previously, i have an appreciation on the need for new business models and new marketing strategies. and i believe PEX is on to a new one. i just feel the way that strategy was thought of and implemented so far appear to have a lot of risks, to say the least.

i am commenting on the marketing strategy, well in this case what PEX seem to be communicating, intentionally or not with the "server is full and by the way, buy into the premium service" message.

i feel that message as a whole and in its parts is full of communication quick sands. at minimum it does not gurantee that PEX upholds its good brand image.

[Kaboom!]

Originally posted by supa_proxy
I another thread, a Pex administrator mentioned that the hosting in RackSpace costs them around P150,000 a month. That's for the hosting alone. How about operational expenses like office rent, salary and other bills? With a workforce of around 15 - 20, PEx would have been burning almost half a million a month. That would be about P6 Million bucks a year!

If we are to take the Premium Service to compensate for all this, we will be needing between 5,000 - 6,000 subscribers for the Premium Membership. And now, how many Premium Members do we really have? 100? 200? Let's pray this number grows exponentially in a month or two lest we'll see more freebies go for pay. Or worse! :eek:

PEx, Inc only has 6 employees (The most we ever had was 8). Our moderators are all volunteers and don't get a regular salary from the company. The rent and other administrative costs are shared by iAyala. So basically, the hosting costs (which have grown exponentially) constitute the bulk of the expenses which is what most of the members get for free. Our burn rate was manageble until the site started growing.

We will introduce new services within the next few weeks that will hopefully augment the current revenue streams of subscription and advertising.

We're working on prepaid access that will give you faster access to PEx since you'll be dialing up directly to Ayalaport so I hope a lot of our members avail of this. We will also introduce Zed picture messages, logos and ringtones within the site that you can download to your Smart phones.

There are other ways to support the site like participating in the promotions and/or clicking on the ads to prove to advertisers that their placement is worth it.

Peace.

[abcxyz]

kaboom - thanks for the reply.

in marketing terms, your current member list is your consumer franchise. and prudent marketing thinking says, in whatever you do, you do not want to alienate your current franchise, otherwise, they will migrate to others in the net.

now in employing a new business model, it must first and formost take into consideration your current franchise and secondarily new users.

where to begin? begin in the most basic of all ----- what is the brand essence of PEX.

once you have gotten that pinned down to 3 sentences, you can now use these 3 sentences as your foundation for your new business model.

[Kaboom!]

Originally posted by abcxyz
thanks for your reply.

as mentioned previously, i have an appreciation on the need for new business models and new marketing strategies. and i believe PEX is on to a new one. i just feel the way that strategy was thought of and implemented so far appear to have a lot of risks, to say the least.

i am commenting on the marketing strategy, well in this case what PEX seem to be communicating, intentionally or not with the "server is full and by the way, buy into the premium service" message.

i feel that message as a whole and in its parts is full of communication quick sands. at minimum it does not gurantee that PEX upholds its good brand image.

We will revisit our message. Please PM Leigh or KD if you have any input since you have a lot of experience in media.

Thanks.

Peace.

[the_BuGs]

Originally posted by Kaboom!


PEx, Inc only has 6 employees (The most we ever had was 8). Our moderators are all volunteers and don't get a regular salary from the company. The rent and other administrative costs are shared by iAyala. So basically, the hosting costs (which have grown exponentially) constitute the bulk of the expenses which is what most of the members get for free. Our burn rate was manageble until the site started growing.

We will introduce new services within the next few weeks that will hopefully augment the current revenue streams of subscription and advertising.

We're working on prepaid access that will give you faster access to PEx since you'll be dialing up directly to Ayalaport so I hope a lot of our members avail of this. We will also introduce Zed picture messages, logos and ringtones within the site that you can download to your Smart phones.

There are other ways to support the site like participating in the promotions and/or clicking on the ads to prove to advertisers that their placement is worth it.

Peace.


Volunteer Moderators???? Pwde rin ako mag volunteer kahit libreh kahit walang bayad... eheheheh Joke lang.... Actually naiintindihan ko side ng PEx eh... Lumalaki na members unlike nuon eh kokonti lang. Well me kaunting katanungan lang ako...*** pa rin ba kyong makuha na mga companies na pwede mag advertise sa inyo??? Katulad ng sinasabi mo dumadami ng dumadami ang members dito sa PEx.. And I Think Everyday laging nabibisita tong site na to... bat nde nyo try kumuha ng sponso sa San Miguel... basta ba maganda lang proposal nyo eh kakagat na yan.Well tingnan na lang natin

[KuyaDanny]

Re: Advertisers

People are working on that. Believe me. They've been doing so for almost two years. Unfortunately, corporate Manila doesn't always move at internet speed, so success might take a little more time.

[cs_NOGNOG]

maybe there should be a PEx volunteer group to get more advertisers for PEx.

[Leigh]

the_Bugs - Re: the advertisers, just to add to what KD mentioned, We've been working really hard to do something about it, we're usually out of the office - let's just say that the team has presented to a lot of potential advertisers already, and we've been very creative with everything.

There are a lot of interested parties, that's why we've added some fields in the profile questions, we need that information to get more advertisers in PEx. They want to know more about our members.

It would really help us if people join our promos, click and visit the pages of the advertisers, example Citibank, hopefully there are some members out there who can apply thru PEx, that simple application can help us out.

[altair]

I agree with abcxyz, whenever I see that damned "server is full" message, I just leave Pex and do something else.

Why don't you take a look at Google's model. It is fast, yet, it's free.

[abcxyz]

what you have in PEX is a very good thing. its a good foundation for greater things, including a real good business model. the pinoy consumer is very different in this respect versus the ones in the US where many internet-based companies have folded up because they have not found the right business model. personally, i think PEX is a really exciting prospect with excellent business potential.

the sad truth is that many if not most ad agencies and advertisers in the philippines dont really understand what the internet is all about, much less what to do with it. here's proof --- they will assess and analize PEX proposals using traditional broadcast media tools and data and its the worst and absolutely wrong place to start.

[KuyaDanny]

Educating or reeducating an entire industry seems like a daunting task to me, abcxyz. But supposing PEx were to try to do it, how do you suggest we start?

[marjubec]

Originally posted by altair
I agree with abcxyz, whenever I see that damned "server is full" message, I just leave Pex and do something else.

Why don't you take a look at Google's model. It is fast, yet, it's free.

Google? Yahoo? Amazon? What's their model ba? It's fast, it's free because they have millions of dollars in the bank. These companies make money because other investors have decided to foot the bill with the hope that surfers will eventually realize how spoiled they are for getting everything for free. Heck, in my day, even getting information from an encyclopedia had a cost.

At the end of the day, it's still going to be the big companies with the most money that wins because they're the only one who can afford to burn money until people realize that there's a cost for all these companies to operate and until the sponsors/advertisers begin to trust the internet as a viable medium. What else is new? The big boys win again.

Looks like PEx even with Ayala don't have millions to throw around or at least are not willing to do so.

[abcxyz]

Originally posted by KuyaDanny
Educating or reeducating an entire industry seems like a daunting task to me, abcxyz. But supposing PEx were to try to do it, how do you suggest we start? yes it is daunting and i am not saying you should embark on an education campaign for the whole ad industry. if they dont even know how to assess it, how will they ever find value in it? but i believe its not a lost cause.

i just posted that as a tip to PEX, so that PEX knows what it will face when it goes out there and more importantly PEX could work around the current ad industry mindset which at the moment is a barrier for PEX to hurdle.

[zimdude]

Google and OSDN (the Open Source Development Network which runs slashdot.org and sourceforge.net among others) have a "self-serve" ad system where advertisers can buy ad spots in a fully automatic way.

I don't think enough Pinoys would want to buy ad space, but I wonder if any PExers would pay to keep their page sticky on top of a forum, or to run ads at the bottom of each post...

In this model, the viewers are the advertisers.
So back to a previous topic, to get more serious business people to join PEx...

[roadrage23]

abcxyz: Just like KD, I'm also curious as to how you would address the marketing issues that a Philippine internet company like PEx, Inc. need to hurdle, given the mindset and practices of the advertising sector.

I understand PEx's decision to raise funds by charging members for certain services and privileges. At the end of the day, PEx, just like any other business, need to generate a certain level of funds to cover operating and financial costs incurred to serve all members.

I guess PEx is already at a stage wherein more business traction is already expected, i.e., revenue-generation from members, in order to reinforce the viability of its business model. Assuming that PEx would need to undertake another round of financing to expand its business, I believe it's only fair for PEx's current and/or new investors to assess the company's financial and operating performance before deciding whether to invest more funds and at what valuation.

[tadeus]

Why don't you guys change "PEx Server is Busy", which means to layman that PEx is too busy to serve you if you don't pay, to "Enhance your PExing" thru avatars and database priority, which sounds a little more pleasant to non-PEx Plus users.

[cs_NOGNOG]

Lately ang hirap talaga pumasok kasi ang daming tao.

I agree with Tadeus, baka marami ang ma turn off. Kahit wag nyo na sabihin na the server is busy, an ad na lang siguro for premium membership.

[zimdude]

require payment for posting business ads in Classifieds! that is, business opportunities, networking, etc... they should count advertising as their business expense!

[abcxyz]

Originally posted by tadeus
Why don't you guys change "PEx Server is Busy", which means to layman that PEx is too busy to serve you if you don't pay, to "Enhance your PExing" thru avatars and database priority, which sounds a little more pleasant to non-PEx Plus users. these are much more acceptable language than what is in it now. less of a turn off.

good suggestion.

i am sure with a litle more tweaking, and the best will come up.

[abcxyz]

Originally posted by zimdude
require payment for posting business ads in Classifieds! that is, business opportunities, networking, etc... they should count advertising as their business expense! excellent suggestion.

[abcxyz]

Originally posted by roadrage23
abcxyz: I understand PEx's decision to raise funds by charging members for certain services and privileges. At the end of the day, PEx, just like any other business, need to generate a certain level of funds to cover operating and financial costs incurred to serve all members.

I guess PEx is already at a stage wherein more business traction is already expected, i.e., revenue-generation from members, in order to reinforce the viability of its business model. Assuming that PEx would need to undertake another round of financing to expand its business, I believe it's only fair for PEx's current and/or new investors to assess the company's financial and operating performance before deciding whether to invest more funds and at what valuation. i agree with this completely and encourage the development of a business model for PEX so that it will comntinue to be there and grow for the future.

thinking like an investor, i think its a good investment assuming the right business model is found.

[rao]

Pinoyexchange is becoing a pain in the neck.

The business people at Pex are either dumb or plain lazy.

Hey! Do you guys know what you have here? You have 200,000 unique posters doing free stuff for you. If you have some good sense in your heads, you'd pay us for our posts. Pinoyexchange is nothing but the posts of 200,000 unique individuals.

Well, if it continues being a pain in the neck, I guess I'll just have to spend my time at comp.dsp or comp.soft-sys.matlab. This is a free world.

Hail the internet! It was never eant to be commercial anyway.

Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil!

[cs_NOGNOG]

Originally posted by zimdude
require payment for posting business ads in Classifieds! that is, business opportunities, networking, etc... they should count advertising as their business expense!

nyek wag, nagpopost rin ako don minsan e.

PEx auction site na lang! We could start with book auctions or something.

[marjubec]

Originally posted by rao
Pinoyexchange is becoing a pain in the neck.

The business people at Pex are either dumb or plain lazy.

Hey! Do you guys know what you have here? You have 200,000 unique posters doing free stuff for you. If you have some good sense in your heads, you'd pay us for our posts. Pinoyexchange is nothing but the posts of 200,000 unique individuals.

Well, if it continues being a pain in the neck, I guess I'll just have to spend my time at comp.dsp or comp.soft-sys.matlab. This is a free world.

Hail the internet! It was never eant to be commercial anyway.

Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil!

I guess pexers aren't just brats, they're stupid too.

It's a free world. Tell that to edsamail. They ate their words. Have fun at comp.dsp and comp.soft-sys.matlab.

Looks like the big companies have won again.

[cs_NOGNOG]

rao and marjubec:

ok lang wag tayo mag away dito? we all just want to have a better PExing experience. take it somewhere else. thanks! :)

[rao]

Originally posted by marjubec


I guess pexers aren't just brats, they're stupid too.

It's a free world. Tell that to edsamail. They ate their words. Have fun at comp.dsp and comp.soft-sys.matlab.

Looks like the big companies have won again.

Yes, I agree. I am one of the brats, and you're one of the stupid ones. You're kinda slow eh? Read the post again.

And yeah, comp.dsp is more fun, blockhead.

[abcxyz]

Originally posted by rao
Pinoyexchange is becoing a pain in the neck.

The business people at Pex are either dumb or plain lazy.

Hey! Do you guys know what you have here? You have 200,000 unique posters doing free stuff for you. If you have some good sense in your heads, you'd pay us for our posts. Pinoyexchange is nothing but the posts of 200,000 unique individuals.

Well, if it continues being a pain in the neck, I guess I'll just have to spend my time at comp.dsp or comp.soft-sys.matlab. This is a free world.

Hail the internet! It was never eant to be commercial anyway.

Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil! nope, its not a free world. and yes, your free to decide to stay away.

[abcxyz]

Originally posted by marjubec


I guess pexers aren't just brats, they're stupid too.

It's a free world. Tell that to edsamail. They ate their words. Have fun at comp.dsp and comp.soft-sys.matlab.

Looks like the big companies have won again. not sure i understand this cimpletely.

there is no big company conspiracy here, its just finding a good, sustainable business model.

[abcxyz]

before this gets out of hand ----> PLEASE READ THE POSTS AND STAY WITHIN THE TOPIC. if you feel a great need to stray away from the topic, try to be at least within spitting distance, please.

if you do not wish to contribute to the topic of how bad/good the current marketing strategy of PEX --- you may want to post what kind of posting experience you have been having now.

[yuch415]

Why not a PEX Job forum where prospective clients and applicants can submit their offers for other PEXers to read -- for a fee of course. ;)

[SILENTMAX]

about a couple of week ago i was interested in being a pex plus member. what baffled me is the ineficient way of collecting fees
either thru the ayalacard or "meeting with a pex head and giving them the subscription fee" there has to be another and easier way. pls keep in mind that not all your forum users reside in manila. i know some would be a casual subscriber if they found that subscribing in itself was a seemless task.

i like your service and this is a great forum. i hope you find a viable way of generating revenue.

and to the moderators keep up the good work. it amazes me that it only takes you guys hours or at least a day before seeing an inapropriate post and making changes

cheers

[anonymouse1]

silentmax, tama ka, sang ayon ako sa iyo. gusto ko na mag subscribe sa pexplus at inihanda ko na ang pera, pagkatapos di ko na alam ano ang gagawin ko sa susunod dahil napakahassle ang paraan ng pagbabayad.

[abcxyz]

Originally posted by SILENTMAX
about a couple of week ago i was interested in being a pex plus member. what baffled me is the ineficient way of collecting fees
either thru the ayalacard or "meeting with a pex head and giving them the subscription fee" there has to be another and easier way. pls keep in mind that not all your forum users reside in manila. i know some would be a casual subscriber if they found that subscribing in itself was a seemless task.

i like your service and this is a great forum. i hope you find a viable way of generating revenue.

and to the moderators keep up the good work. it amazes me that it only takes you guys hours or at least a day before seeing an inapropriate post and making changes

cheers sounds like a major issue to me. its hard enough to find people who are willing to pay, why make it hard for those who already want to pay?

[abcxyz]

i notice that now, you are asked to register/log-on before you can view any of the threads/posts.

i am not sure this is a good idea because it DISALLOWS or makes IT HARDER for new potential posters/members to take a SNEAK PREVIEW as to what kind of posts/threads and community PEX has.

so lets say you heard about PEX from someone. so you go to the net to check it out. you open the homepage. and when you want to read the kind of posts and the kind of people who are memebers in the community, you cant view it for a sneak preview unless you register.

the product in this case are the people who post and what they post/write. allowing "guests" / potential new members to view is a form of product sampling. product sampling is a great tool for trial.

[supa_proxy]

I believe the problem of PEx with sneak previews is that it shaves off their alloted bandwidth and gets nothing in return - not even the added stats for the number of registered users nor the privilege of getting more info for profiling. It is actually a risk but by doing so, they have contained their bandwidth to certain limits.

In which case, this strategy is a do or die. It has already entailed a lot of risk and PEx is now not willing to sacrifice more server upgrade and more bandwidth allowance just to give potential members a sneak preview.

The rule of thumb here is: If you're not getting any dough, scrap it.

[kerb]

i agree. there should be an easy way to pay for subscription. how bout thru phone? just txt it using PEX txting service ek ek then it will auto debit to whatever there is to debit :P.
"PEX server is busy" notice is "nakakainis".
about the sneak preview.. pwede dapat ma view.. di lang pwede mag post :P bigyan lang ng default guest account right? kung mahirap pa yan, sana me virtual tour na lang of some sort, just to orient first time visitors on whats PEX Experience is all about.

[iroqui]

Before the transfer, the service was great. No downtime whatsoever. When they transferred to ayala port(the premium data center of the ayala group) then we started to get server is full. So what does that tell us? Their data center service sucks like crazy!! No company in their right mind would want to avail of their hosting, colocation, etc. services coz with pinoyexchange as a prime example, they went from good to awful.

Great strategy, ayala. Keep it up and you will go the way of WorldCom, Global Crossing and Enron.

[Leigh]

Regarding "server busy" - It's not the Data Center's fault, we've agreed to pay x amount of money for x amount of hosting. It was mentioned before that we've upgraded a number of times already and recently made the decision of not upgrading YET.

Regarding the Payment Gateways - for the past few months, we've been trying to get other Payment options. Just to let you know:

1.) We've talked to a website that can accept ATMs as mode of payment - great opportunity but it will take them 4 months to do the system for us and they have asked us to "assure them" of x amount of money per month based from transactions, if we don't achieve that amount then PEx, Inc will have to pay for the amount that wasn't achieved. Too high for the low potential.

2.) We've talked to banks already regarding online payment. To build a system for a group, it will take x amount of money which we can't pay. No definite number of months for implementation, since we are going to be their first project.

3.) Paying thru the ATM - We've spoken to a bank already and we also need to pay a big amount to have them build the system, this is not including the commission that they will get per transaction.

4.) Thru Bayad Centers - There's an upfront fee of x amount of Pesos that is not advisable for PinoyExchange.

5.) Paying thru your mobile phone, we are still continuing talks with them coz we can't seem to agree on the rates. After the contract is signed, another 3 months before implementation.

6.) Bank transactions, we're also in talks with some banks regarding over the counter transactions, it's just a matter of commission discussion.

7.) Having Resellers - we've talked with some Internet Cafes and School organizations already, it's just a matter of launching and getting more people to be our resellers. Hopefully, we can also tap other groups who are in the provinces.

8.) Continuous Campus Tours - we've been doing this at least once in 3 months to go around schools in Metro Manila.

Regarding Access to view - it's not advisable to have "unregistered viewing" since we already have a ceiling for the concurrent members viewing and accessing the site, this "allowed unregistered viewing" will then cut the number of members we can allow to go thru the site.

Hope this answers your questions and concerns, we are very grateful for your suggestions, and criticisms, these things make us work harder.

[abcxyz]

Originally posted by iroqui
Before the transfer, the service was great. No downtime whatsoever. When they transferred to ayala port(the premium data center of the ayala group) then we started to get server is full. So what does that tell us? Their data center service sucks like crazy!! No company in their right mind would want to avail of their hosting, colocation, etc. services coz with pinoyexchange as a prime example, they went from good to awful.

Great strategy, ayala. Keep it up and you will go the way of WorldCom, Global Crossing and Enron. i agree that PEX service and the PEX experience has deteriorated since the transfer to ayala port.

from a marketing and corporate thinking standpoint, hard to understand why a service would knowingly donwgrade service and the experience just bec it transfer to another server.

it is customary that when one trasfers, you want to improve the service or at minimum maintain the quality of the experience.

it looks like the transfer was done on the sole purpose of cutting costs.

what they might not have realized is that while the costs are beign cut, the BRAND may be suffering and will most likely drive subscribers away.

this kind of marketing error IS A SLOW BURN death. you will not feel the ill effects of such a blunder right away. it can be progressive and yoiu will notice its full negative impact only when its too late to do anything about.

what will happen is that the subscriber base will NOT GROW or its grothe rate will be much slower than previous, until it stops to grow completely.

then the current subs will lose interest. new subs bring new interesting things to old subs. with less new subs, you will get tired reading the same things from the same people.

then they will start to fall out. and eventually the number of subs will shrink.

a good marketing model is the mobile phone provider business. they are always cincered about CHURN. churn is net aditional subscribers --- tot number of new subs less the tot number of subs that has left the service. churn is monitored by the mobile companies on a daily business.

mobile service providers are CONTINUOUSLY improving, adding and widening the mobile phone use experience with new addde value services and promos. thats how they maintain theur churn high.

its the opposite of what PEX is doing --- it is making the experience less plesuarable and remaining stagnant.

[abcxyz]

Originally posted by supa_proxy
I believe the problem of PEx with sneak previews is that it shaves off their alloted bandwidth and gets nothing in return - not even the added stats for the number of registered users nor the privilege of getting more info for profiling. It is actually a risk but by doing so, they have contained their bandwidth to certain limits.

In which case, this strategy is a do or die. It has already entailed a lot of risk and PEx is now not willing to sacrifice more server upgrade and more bandwidth allowance just to give potential members a sneak preview.

The rule of thumb here is: If you're not getting any dough, scrap it. i do understand the issue of making the service survive vs cutting costs vs generating revenues.

that is why i have been suggesting that PEX come up with MORE REVENUE-GENERATING products. PEX need new products. and i dont think it has come up with anything yet. not only have PEX not come up with new products, they have made the experience worse and more limiting.

ONE of the NATURE of an internet service is SUBSCRIBER BASE tend to multiply exponentially very fast. the speed by which it expands exponentially is dependent on how good the service is and the experience.

PEX and ayala should have realized that. in the internet business, once you start it, you cant stop it. once you start it, you can only repsond by making your technology grow with your base. in the internet business, you assume and prepare for exponential growth much more than down-sizing. (very similar to mobile phone service).

this is much unlike the manufacturing business where you look at growth and downsizing at the same time.

in tackling the issue of growth and costs, i think PEX is doing it the wrong way. while it is prudent to keep costs down, they will be better off looking at NEW PRODUCTS.

sustaining the QUALITY OF THE EXPERIENC IS A MUST. adding new products is the way to go.

PEX it appers has gone the other way.

its a classic ayala thinking ---- cut down the costs!

[abcxyz]

Originally posted by Leigh
Regarding "server busy" - It's not the Data Center's fault, we've agreed to pay x amount of money for x amount of hosting. It was mentioned before that we've upgraded a number of times already and recently made the decision of not upgrading YET. i guess this confirms the point i rasied about PEX not realizing the internet business grows exponentially, sacrificing the quality of the experience, attacking the costs, no new products, etc etc.


Regarding the Payment Gateways - for the past few months, we've been trying to get other Payment options. Just to let you know:

1.) We've talked to a website that can accept ATMs as mode of payment - great opportunity but it will take them 4 months to do the system for us and they have asked us to "assure them" of x amount of money per month based from transactions, if we don't achieve that amount then PEx, Inc will have to pay for the amount that wasn't achieved. Too high for the low potential.

2.) We've talked to banks already regarding online payment. To build a system for a group, it will take x amount of money which we can't pay. No definite number of months for implementation, since we are going to be their first project.

3.) Paying thru the ATM - We've spoken to a bank already and we also need to pay a big amount to have them build the system, this is not including the commission that they will get per transaction.

4.) Thru Bayad Centers - There's an upfront fee of x amount of Pesos that is not advisable for PinoyExchange.

5.) Paying thru your mobile phone, we are still continuing talks with them coz we can't seem to agree on the rates. After the contract is signed, another 3 months before implementation.

6.) Bank transactions, we're also in talks with some banks regarding over the counter transactions, it's just a matter of commission discussion.

7.) Having Resellers - we've talked with some Internet Cafes and School organizations already, it's just a matter of launching and getting more people to be our resellers. Hopefully, we can also tap other groups who are in the provinces.

8.) Continuous Campus Tours - we've been doing this at least once in 3 months to go around schools in Metro Manila.

you need to do this fast. the longer it takes you to set up easy and quick payment options mean PEX IS LOOSING PRECIOUS POTENTIAL REVENUE.

just a note --- for any change that you do to your system or when you introduce a new product (e.g. payment for service), you need to FIRST MAKE SURE THE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR IT is set into place to tackle the new system/product. you run the risk of disappointing and turning off your current subs. not to mention loss of potential revenue.



Regarding Access to view - it's not advisable to have "unregistered viewing" since we already have a ceiling for the concurrent members viewing and accessing the site, this "allowed unregistered viewing" will then cut the number of members we can allow to go thru the site. this then might affect the rate by which you will grow your sub base.access to view is product sampling, it encourages trial and can capture loyal users. kerbs suggestion on having "guests" is a great idea!

it appears to me, the technology constraints and issues have been given too much control on the how the PEX product performs (the PEX experience). this is classic marketing 101 on how to kill a brand.

[abcxyz]

Originally posted by kerb
about the sneak preview.. pwede dapat ma view.. di lang pwede mag post :P bigyan lang ng default guest account right? kung mahirap pa yan, sana me virtual tour na lang of some sort, just to orient first time visitors on whats PEX Experience is all about. EXCELLENT IDEA/SUGGESTION

[Kaboom!]

I guess there have been a lot of issues raised so I will again try to answer to the best of my ability.

On the trasnfer from Rackspace to AyalaPort. The current configuration of the servers and even the price of the hosting are exactly the same. We just put a ceiling on the concurrent users so that the server doesn't crash every other day. If you look at our logs in Rackspace, our servers were always at its maximum and would crash about 4 times a week. The number of complaints then were just as much as the number of complaints now regarding how slow the service was. I'm just glad now at least the server is always up and running especially for the plus members.
The main reason for the trasnfer was to be able to offer direct dial up prepaid access which we hope to have available by the end of the month. We've been testing the service with Ayalaport for the last few months.

On the Strategy. I understand the brand perception implications because of the dissatisfaction with the service. I was a brand manager at one point. This was really done more out of necessity rather than strategy. As I've metioned before, more than half of our burn rate is the hosting cost of the site which costs over six digits a month. I am fairly confident that our hosting requirements already exceed 99% of all other sites in the country. We underestimated our growth especially since we've never spent on advertising and overestimated our revenues. We have upgrated 4 times in the last 2 years with revenues staying about the same. Some of our advertisers have even gotten dissapointed at the low participation of members when it comes to their sponsorships. I know there will be more discussion on this and we'll be listening and will do whatever is feasible. I've alwasy likened this strategy to a movie theater since I think PEx is certainly a form of entertainment. The theater only fits so much and it's an inconvenience to the moviegoer when it's full. In fact it's a little better because if it's not full, the others can enter for free. So rather than stuffing everyone in the theater where it becomes unbearable, we close the doors and make the others wait for the next showing. Obviously this comparison has not been accepted yet.

On the Comparison between telcos. They continuously upgrade their service because they have also have a continuous stream of revenues through SMS and voice calls. The more they upgrade, the more income they get. The same is not true in our case since our service is generally free for most. The more we upgrade, the bigger the amount we have to make up through other revenues. Now, the more members pay for the pex plus, since there is a monetary component, we can upgrade the servers accordingly, which in my opinion is a more accurate comparison.

On the payment options. This I will wholeheartedly apologize for not giving everyone the option. We have talked to many entities already it's been a difficult road finding a secure method. We do have some options but all have initial and transaction fees that are not are unreasonable considering our products have very low value and we don't anticipate the quantity of purchases they require. This is still a priority and we are doing our best to make the options available.

On our traffic. PEx has actually garnered the MOST traffic it has ever logged since its inception after transferring to Ayalaport and implementing the ceiling. We were very surprised that many pexers were willing to wait and log on during odd hours when the concurrent users were low. So instead of a bell curve usership, there actually aren't any more peak hours as many non plus members log on during the non peak hours. I apologize for all the irritation but this was the best course of action for us after studying our resources and the internet situation in the country. Until advertisers accept and/or surfers pay, most sites will close down as they have done so already.

I do appreciate all the constructive critisism. I would want nothing more than to give the best service possible for everyone.

Peace.

[kerb]

if the problem is only about the "limited x number of database connections",
then there should not be a problem accessing the page for a non pex plus member.

when displaying a page, does it necessarily require a database
connection? y not instead display a stale (di updated), or cached page
if there is no available server resources. everybody happy na, me pandagdag pa
kayong privilege sa Pex plus members.. sumtin like
"pex plus members can have access to threads with up-to-the-minute updates
just like a fresh hot pandesal.". otherwise, if kerb is not a pex plus member,
he can still view the forums/threads (prolly a 1 or 2-day old static page).
if im not mistaken, this is what google does. this is to make sure that when a particular site is
down or the page is no longer available, the user can still access a "cached" copy of the website.
thanx to google, up to now im still a 20 yr old stude who likes creating homepage at geocities.
(even if i already took my homepage offline 2-3 yrs ago)
UNLESS me ibang ibang purpose yung "server busy" na yun *grin*.

now if i really wanted to take part on a really hot bakbakan at chismisan thread
that is updated by the minute/second (or for some other important reasons),
thats the time ill think about being a pex plus member.
some pexers are just lurkers most of the time and some prefers to keep it that way.
should the pex community welcome them or push them away? ;P
in our company, it started with a pex lurker visiting the UAAP threads.
after a week or two, i think 15 to 20 are already hooked with pex.

but if the issue is about the number of unique hosts/clients accessing the server,
then ill just shut my mouth na lang hehe.
but the fact i was able to see the "server busy" page, it means im still
getting in.. errr.. right?

[aticus]

just my two-bits' worth.. :)

abcxyz: Your suggestions are all great, and your grasp of marketing fundamentals is very good, but perhaps you could help PEx out better if you added a few concrete suggestions of your own? :) I know the PEx team personally, and I know they're aware of almost all the concepts you mentioned already. Instead of mentioning stuff like "protect the Brand," which is true, of course, perhaps you could give them your own, personal suggestions to implement? I'm sure they'd be happy to hear them, and we might all be better off for it. :)

On my part, I've sat down with some of the PEx team on more than occasion, to discuss issues like the shift to AyalaPort, and I would like to say that they really DO care about the loyal members who help make PEx what it is today. The problem, as experts like abcxyz will attest to, is in execution and implementation. I mean when even a person as respected as Jack Welch of GE gets snickers for coming up with programs with names like "Work Out" (an employee-empowerment program which, time has shown, actually DOES work for the company), which took quite a while to take off, and only because there was consistent execution throughout the company, how would PEx be expected to take some of this great advice and make it work right away, given their constraints in budget and resources? It is only through excellent execution that some of the best-laid plans get to be successful. After all, no company starts out planning to fail, and many have excellently conceived plans and visions, but only a small percentage stick around more than 5 years after inception. PEx IS trying. Let's all just give it a bit more time to succeed.

I mean, back to Jack Welch, this is the guy acknowledged to be one of the greatest CEOs of all time, but he first started out by cutting GE's entire workforce by about 33% (over 100,000 jobs), and was the first to start this massive level of downsizing. He was known as "Neutron Jack" for that, because neutron bombs kill people, but leave buildings intact. Then he gave up such core businesses (including no longer making the ubiquitous GE toasters), and focused on other businesses "non-GE" such as buying the media giant NBC (which initially started losing money, but has since proved to be an excellent investment). He may have "diluted" the brand, but he built a better business. If it was all about the theory, GE would never be as successful as it is now.

PEx is, heaven forbid, a far cry from GE, of course, but the analogy still rings true... You can't rely on tried and tested marketing "principles" without excellent concrete programs to implement and execute. PEx is trying very hard to find them, and I can personally vouch for this current team's work ethic. I, for one, am willing to give them a bit more time to make it work for all of us. :)

[aticus]

My own concrete suggestion:

Suggestion:
Start implementing a PEx membership card program. Make use of the thousands of PExers all over who go to EBs. Then join up maybe with Ayala's own loyalty card program and get a lot of establishments to give discounts. Then hold EBs in these establishments, on a rotating schedule, giving each PExer special discounts during the events.

What will this (hopefully) do:

a) Give PExers something tangible to hold on to; give loyal members actual, physical benefits; increase loyalty to PEx, improve PEx brand awareness;
b) Convince establishments of PEx's membership clout; establish PEx as more than just an "online presence"
c) Create a series of events, plus a product, that can be media-friendly; Get these events to be covered regularly in social columns; Get media to participate in these events and build up PEx's brand profile

I've been harping about this for over a year now. I know PEx is swamped right now with work, but once everything settles, in my humble opinion, this is one program that will really work. :)

You can even implement a multi-tiered card system (ex. Platinum for Premium PExers, Gold for most active PExers, Silver for mid-level, etc...) so that those who are premium members can get more benefits, such as free entrance to all PEx events. :)

Will come up with more as they come to me.

Hi Mads and KD! :wave: Miss you folks...

[abcxyz]

aticus i have in fact given concrete suggestions in this thread and in the ads we love/hate thread as well. not a lot of ideas but i have given a few. (and others have been giving too).

but what i have given a LOT of are strategic suggestions, analysis and directions. the core of any good marketing plan is good strategic thinking. and that is where i hope i am able to contribute to. i have even outlined what i thought are the key issues for PEX in the other thread. these issues can be the core of a marketing strategy and plan should PEX decide to take them on. from these can spring a lot of specific programs.

i have intentionally refrained from giving more concrete ideas/programs bec i feel it is not my place to do so. marketing mix activities MUST always come from a business plan (or business model) and a marketing strategy. i am not privy to both.

while i do appreciate the issue of implementation and excution, and yes it is possibly an area that needs to be hurdled, i sense it MIGHT NOT BE THE BIGGEST ISSUE that faces PEX.

caution --- i have not talked to anyone of them personally nor have i seen their business/marketing plans, and i base this only on what those from PEX have posted ---- having said that, i feel the most important area they need to get a handle on is : the need to define OBJECIVES. what is the business objective? what is the marketing objective? what is the business model? i feel they are still fuzzy on that area. they need to decide what and who they want PEX to be.

btw -- many other pexers have given what i believe are very good concrete ideas. PEX just need to prioritize what they need to do first.

[abcxyz]

by the way, THE GREATEST LESSON of the internet / e business BUST and succeeding business failures and close shops that occured within the last 3 years (think SHIRNKING NASDAQ) is this -----> e-businesses / internet businesses FAILED because of a lack of or absence of a VIABLE AND SUSTAINABLE BUSINESS MODEL they had the technology, they had the ideas, they had the energy and spirit BUT they DID NOT KNOW how they will make the money.

[supa_proxy]

Let's all be thankful that PEX is still alive and online. If it wasn't for the cost-cutting measures, PEX would have gone kaput like GetAsia, MP3Manila or GoPinoy and the sorts.

[tadeus]

Originally posted by abcxyz
by the way, THE GREATEST LESSON of the internet / e business BUST and succeeding business failures and close shops that occured within the last 3 years (think SHIRNKING NASDAQ) is this -----> e-businesses / internet businesses FAILED because of a lack of or absence of a VIABLE AND SUSTAINABLE BUSINESS MODEL they had the technology, they had the ideas, they had the energy and spirit BUT they DID NOT KNOW how they will make the money.

True, indeed!

Let's all be thankful that PEX is still alive and online. If it wasn't for the cost-cutting measures, PEX would have gone kaput like GetAsia, MP3Manila or GoPinoy and the sorts.

and soon to be *****.com. They are spending a lot of money for advertising yet they don't have any idea how to earn from people who goes to their site.

[waterfire]

pex went down again, i think it would be good if you could put out an advisory on what happened and what you are doing to avoid it from repeating

[R0G3R]

Originally posted by Leigh
6.) Bank transactions, we're also in talks with some banks regarding over the counter transactions, it's just a matter of commission discussion.


ms. gorgeous Leigh, wats with comissions with over the counter transactions??? *** kind of account do u need for that??? di ba pwede open a corporate account with the minimum required maintaining balance with a major local commercial bank (bpi?) then just provide the account number so people could pay over the counter??? then they could just fax you the deposit slip or provide the deposit info para you could confirm payment???membership info for the database (or an application form) could just be emailed or faxed to you guys diba???

i mean, with the numerous methods you mentioned to find a way to gather payments, wouldnt this have been a simpler solution??? please feel free to correct me if i may have missed the obvious here as to why this method has not been adopted... pexers (like me) still go to banks to pay for our inet or cphone bills, so might as well pay for pexplus membership while wur at it diba...


Originally posted by Kaboom!
PEx, Inc only has 6 employees (The most we ever had was 8). Our moderators are all volunteers and don't get a regular salary from the company.


partly in their defense, i think we pexers are asking a lot from a co. of six and a couple of volunteers to keep the pexing experience free for the long-term (meaning forever)... i mean in between planning income generation and moderating/replying to posts, no wonder they always seem to have their hands full...


Originally posted by cs_NOGNOG
maybe there should be a PEx volunteer group to get more advertisers for PEx.

im dont exactly post often, im more of a reader actually, but if some pexers will start something like this, ill sign up for it... forget about commissions and a lot of monetary compensation for such effort, pex plus membership for a year (or years depending on the amount of the advertisement) and a pex shirt would be enuff for me... basta di ako ang magsisimula dahil di ako as wellversed as abcxyz sa mga business model, etc. nayan, pero willing ako tumulong...

:deal:

[roadrage23]

Originally posted by R0G3R
...wats with comissions with over the counter transactions??? *** kind of account do u need for that??? di ba pwede open a corporate account with the minimum required maintaining balance with a major local commercial bank (bpi?) then just provide the account number so people could pay over the counter??? then they could just fax you the deposit slip or provide the deposit info para you could confirm payment???....
R0G3R's above suggestion sounds good. In fact, I recall giving ADA a similar suggestion several months back. I wonder if this approach is not cost-effective as well.