TPG Pension Plan, does anybody knows this

[baste]

Hi, my friend invited me to take a pension plan with the TPG Corp. It has a pension plan with additional perks which can gain you some extra money... Jst want to ask if anybody here knows about this?

[Totnak Boy]

yeah i've heard about it. still pretty skeptical about it, but my friend's prof joined the scheme during its prime and he's been a millionnaire ever since. I guess with every other MLM out there, it's all about jumping into it before everybody else does.

it may not be any different from other MLMs, but the loss involved by inaction may be mitigated a bit by having pension as your product instead of some other doodud.

Btw, sabi nila Php5B daw ang trust fund ng TPG, they checked it with SEC... I dunno how you're gonna take that though, but I suggest you need to dig deeper into the statistics, you may never know once you succumb to the blindness... ;)

[KuyaDanny]

TPG is not a fly by night company. It has been in business for 25 years.

As to the pension plan "with additional perks which can gain you some extra money", I think it is better if you attempt to summarize what the plan offers. Doing so is good for two reasons: a) the PExers will learn something; and b) you will solidify your own understanding of what exactly it is you are buying. If your explanation is unclear, I'm sure other PExers will have questions for you which you can then ask the person selling the plan.

BTW, a pension plan is supposed to make money for you. If you need "additional perks" for that purpose, something is wrong with the plan.

[Totnak Boy]

actually KuyaDanny, a pension plan holder can opt not to obtain the "additional perks", they would still get a return for their investment (P13500 p.a. 5 yrs. to pay ---> P100T after 10 yrs. [5 yrs. waiting]). But should they delve into networking, they would be able to earn P2500 for every pair they "recruit" (for lack of a better term).

Actually they've given some complex computations to show the people how they keep the trust fund secure while shelling out 2500 per new pair of planholders. That, and TPG has been around for quite a long time, so I guess this one's a bit more legit than the rest :)

[asinine]

My sister and I just joined the scheme, and so far so good. Syempre at first you get blinded with all the numbers they throw at you, people earning 100k-300k a month, even up to 1M! :wow2: It's natural for people to doubt this because it really does sound unbelievable! If it weren't for a close friend whose tried this and has proven to me that it really works, I would have been a bit more skeptical in joining. But of course it isn't that easy, you really have to work hard for it pero kung talagang desedido ka, i can't imagine how you can fail.

I may sound a bit shameless :hiya:, but what the hell, you only live once, so if anyone is interested out there, give this thing a shot. Malay mo, diba? Call or text me, 0919-6930976 :deal:

:beam: Michelle

[KuyaDanny]

Originally posted by Totnak Boy
actually KuyaDanny, a pension plan holder can opt not to obtain the "additional perks", they would still get a return for their investment (P13500 p.a. 5 yrs. to pay ---> P100T after 10 yrs. [5 yrs. waiting]). But should they delve into networking, they would be able to earn P2500 for every pair they "recruit" (for lack of a better term).


I learn something new every day. Thanks for sharing this.

The logic for embarking on this "cooperative marketing" program (aka ProZinergy) is this: TPG and most other pre-need companies typically spend about 40% of the first year's payment on "plan acquisition costs". These costs include commissions, sales promotion expenses, agent's training, and such things as doc stamps, the paperwork, etc. In your example, 40% pf P13,500 is P5,400. If they can sell a new plan at a cost of P1,250, they come out way ahead.

[Totnak Boy]

hmm... haven't looked at it from that perspective, but that actually makes sense. TPG may actually be earning more profit from cost savings aside from that provided by sheer volume influx.

but i'm still trying to find the loophole... call it skepticism, but at least i'm practicing it professionally... :)

[bullish]

Ngayon na ngang me problema na ang pre-need plans after the CAP fiasco, and that some of us are aware that to meet the dwindling sales of pre-need plans some pre-need companies resorted to the "dubious" practice of "pyramiding"/networking their products -- do you think what they're doing is illegal and dapat masilip ng either SEC/Insurance Commission?

NOTE: 2 pre-need companies are already doing this -- TPG (ProZinergy) and MIB/Buhay Milyonaryo (Prudentialife).

[KuyaDanny]

I have merged bullish's thread with an earlier one about TPG Pension/ProZinergy.

[mazdamazda]

TPG? They are one of the first preneed companies to operate here in the Philippines. But it is also sad to know they they are not even in the top 5 preneed companies here (Philam, CAP, Prudentialife, etc).

Preneed sales are not slumping for your information, if you do not have concrete information, just don't open your mouth. I'm working as a Sales Executive for one of these companies (as a sideline) and I don't think that there is one. Sales are strong as far as I am concerned. The preneed industry here even overtook the insurance industry.

The problem with some preneed companies is that they have invested in some bad deals. For example, CAP. They invested a substantial amount of money in the MRT project, in which case they couldn't get a ROI because of the break-even operations to try to bring in more people to use it.

The key to a preneed company's sucess is to invest wisely and cautiously.

KuyaDanny, i beg to disagree with you on the 40% plan acquisition cost that you said. It is much higher than that.

I generally do not believe in MLM because they offer really bad products, but when the preneed companies ventured into it, it isn't such a bad idea after all. You get a pension plan plus you also have the chance to earn some serious bucks. There is no downside to that IMHO.

I personally purchased a pension plan through this MLM thing but I didn't pursue the networking scheme as I sticked to the traditional preneed market. Our target market is much different and broader from that of the MLM scheme.

[KuyaDanny]

Good, mazdamazda.

1) How much more than 40% is spent on plan acquisition? At 40%, referral marketing seems to make financial sense for the pre-need company. If it is higher, it gets even better.

2) What is the target market of the MLM scheme and in what way is your target marget broader?

http://www.pinoyexchange.com/reignoffire/icon.gif

[mazdamazda]

1. let's put it this way, the preneed company almost doesn't get anything on the first payment of the client. they are spent on all of the expenses, commissions and the all important trust fund. that is why they are stressing in our performance that our clients pay in full the plan.

a popular belief is that preneed companies make a killing when a client doesn't continue his plans. this is true in a sense if the client discontinues his plan when he is almost finished paying it.

2. MLM - for the individual consumer.

traditional preneed - our target market are companies as it has been mandated that employers get a retirement plan for their employees aside from the SSS pension. RA 7722 if i am not mistaken.

[bullish]

I'd just like to share with you this article which he wrote about ProZinergy. This applies as well to MIB/Buhay Milyonaryo of Prudentialife. The writer was indeed right that even well-informed insurance agents that I know (I'm in that business) condemn what these 2 companies are doing.

(Heck, even Prudentialife which claims to be the number 1 pre-need company is even doing pyramiding. How low can they go?).

And...maybe the Sec should start looking at this, eh? (I've heard that they're planning to start cracking the whip on MLM companies here by banning them here -- that's according to a friend.)

===========================================

Pyramid scam now called
multilevel marketing
Posted: 0:57 AM (Manila Time) | Jun. 17, 2002
Inquirer News Service
http://www.inq7.net/bus/2002/jun/17/bus_7-1.htm

Pre-need firm into scheme

IT IS called multilevel marketing. It is nothing but a variation of the old-time Ponzi scheme (sometimes called the pyramid). Charles A. Ponzi, an American Italian-born swindler, earned a niche in Merriam-Webster dictionary with his scheme in which "some early investors are paid off with money put up by later ones in order to encourage more and bigger risks."

For example, Ponzi would collect 1,000 dollars from Paul, promising to double the money in a month's time. Ponzi would then collect 2,000 dollars from Peter, promising to double the money in a month's time. Ponzi would then pay Paul 2,000 dollars as promised. In short, Ponzi robbed Peter to pay Paul.

The scheme is also called the pyramid because the swindler collects from one investor to start with, then the same amount from each of two more investors in the next level, then from four investors in the next, and so on. The number of investors is doubled at each level, thereby forming a pyramid of an ever-widening base.

The first investor is paid off with the collection from the second level of investors, and so forth. Inevitably, the pyramid will collapse as the number of investors runs out.

There is a pre-need company that operates a variation of the pyramid scheme. It sells a pension plan at an annual premium of 13,930 pesos a year for five years. At the end of 10 years, you are handed the maturity value of 100,000 pesos, which you can take in lump sum or at a lifetime pension of 1,000 pesos a month, subject to prevailing interest rate at the time of availment.


Orphaned plans

By itself, the plan is a darn good deal. But, like all pre-need plans, if you miss a payment, you must reinstate your plan within two years or all your previous payments vanish into thin air. These confiscated or orphaned payments are one of the biggest sources of income of the pre-need company. In a life insurance, the company takes great pains to convince the policyholder to reinstate his lapsed policy. In pre-need, a lapsed contract that is never reinstated is pure profit.

The pension plan of this pre-need company is sold through what is called multilevel marketing, a rather sophisticated version of the old Ponzi scheme. On the first day, you refer two people who will pay 13,930 pesos each. For this, you get a referral fee of 2,500 pesos. On the second day, these two people will each refer a pair who will each invest 13,930 pesos. For this, you get a referral fee of 5,000 pesos. And so on, and on. In fact, it is the marketing scheme--not the pension plan--that is used to lure people to become agents. This is the pyramid where maturity payments to the upper level are paid out of the current collections from new investors. It's robbing Peter to pay Paul all over again.

The investment of funds of pre-need companies is little regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission. On the other hand, investments of funds collected from the public by insurance companies are severely regulated under the Insurance Code and tightly supervised by the Insurance Commission. Once or twice a year, the dreaded, eagle-eyed auditors of the Insurance Commission swoop down on the insurance companies.

The pre-need companies are required to maintain a reserve fund at a bank. But this has little connection with the liabilities of the company to its buyers.

For the buyer, the returns on a pre-need plan are quite attractive. But, bear in mind, the greater return, the greater the risk. Which is precisely the reason why you should avoid a pre-need plan like the plague--especially when it is sold through the so-called multilevel marketing.

[mazdamazda]

By itself, the plan is a darn good deal. But, like all pre-need plans, if you miss a payment, you must reinstate your plan within two years or all your previous payments vanish into thin air. These confiscated or orphaned payments are one of the biggest sources of income of the pre-need company. In a life insurance, the company takes great pains to convince the policyholder to reinstate his lapsed policy. In pre-need, a lapsed contract that is never reinstated is pure profit.

I don't think so, refer to my previous thread. If a planholder doesn't continue his payment, the company loses. That is why we are giving a 2 year reinstatement period for them to either update or redate their plans. Plus, as I've said, we are being required by the company to have a high Collection Efficiency Rating (CER) for us to avail of some bonuses.

I think that the author is biased. From the insurance industry perhaps? Just read between the lines. They are suffering as our preneed plans has a built in insurance component with it, you don't have to avail of a life insurance anymore.

No one in the preneed industry is bashing the insurance industry, as they are even the ones providing us with the said insurance components. But look at that, insurance people badmouthing the preneed people. Geez...

For the buyer, the returns on a pre-need plan are quite attractive. But, bear in mind, the greater return, the greater the risk. Which is precisely the reason why you should avoid a pre-need plan like the plague--especially when it is sold through the so-called multilevel marketing.

FYI, the returns on a pre-need plan isn't that high. It is just a way of diversifying your assets and securing your future.

(Heck, even Prudentialife which claims to be the number 1 pre-need company is even doing pyramiding. How low can they go?).

I am from Prudentialife. Are we that LOW? Pyramiding technically means that you invest and you get nothing in return. But we provide you with a pre-need plan. It is just another way of marketing our products.

The pre-need companies are required to maintain a reserve fund at a bank. But this has little connection with the liabilities of the company to its buyers.

In our company, more than 60% of the client's payment are deposited in our trust fund, more than the trust fund requirement of SEC. Isn't that secure enough?

It is also one reason why the company doesn't want lapsed plans. If you add in there the commission in the agent, the company is even shelling out money for the first year of payment.

Btw, this all applies to Prudentialife only. We have complied with the trust fund requirements and everything. Our board of directors have invested our planholder's money wisely (is MegaMall a good investment?). I just don't know about the other pre-need companies, specifically the ones with the more than a billion peso in trust fund deficit.

[bullish]

Originally posted by mazdamazda


I am from Prudentialife. Are we that LOW? Pyramiding technically means that you invest and you get nothing in return. But we provide you with a pre-need plan. It is just another way of marketing our products.

Sory for the term, but if most people would think about it, they'd think that "for a number 1 pre-need company, why do they have to resort to 'pyramid-style marketing' to market their products?" Mr. General was even right na medyo mas dangerous na mag-invest through pyramiding.

And about pyramiding...that definition you stated is quite "twisted". I've been fed-up with that exscuse of a definition. In the SEC definition (see http://www.sec.gov.ph/advisory/SEC%20Advisory,04182002.pdf ), it even includes networking firms na may produkto na ino-offer.

Sabi nga ng Sec:

"No matter how good a product it is and how solid an MLM marketing plan may be, you must expect to invest 'sweat equity' from the pesos you part for your investment to pay-off."

[mazdamazda]

well, am not really that into MLM or networking, that is why I concentrate on our traditional products. i have an idea on the workings of a networking company, but preneed MLM products are way better than the "other" products out there.

am just wondering on why SEC wouldn't close down the said companies after they have issued the said advice? why issue a warning in the first place if they don't do anything about it?

for our company, it just another way of luring in customers. well, if we don't do it then we lose potential customers to the other preneed companies.

[packingsyet]

nag join ako dyan TPG last 2001,nakidnap invite ako nun... hehehehe.... pero yun ok lang kasi maganda naman product...
did not continue on MLM ....

according to an upline of mine...
yung sa prudential eh walang C factor daw ....

ex:
2500 yung bigay sa tpg kada pair, sa prudential ata mas malaki 3500 ata pero mas mura mo lang mabibili yung pension plan 11 plus ata yung sa prudential, sa tpg na 13 plus ...ewan ko kung tama tagal na kasi noon eh ....

yung iba ko kasama noon don after 4 years eh ganon pa rin ngayon ... kumubra lang sa umpisa... hirap talaga networking hehehehe....


sinabi lang naman yun sakin ng upline ko kasi kakalalunch lang ata nang sa prudential non so matrix comparison siguro and syempre bias dahil sa tpg kami ... hekhek
maybe mazdamazda can correct me on this

:weg: