"INDUSTRIAL ENGINEERING" vs. "MANAGEMENT ENGINEERING" !

[Zoltrix]

What is the difference between "Industrial Engineering" and "Management Engineering"? Or are they the same?

Which one is better?

Which one is more difficult than the other?

What school offers the best curriculum for the said courses?


> Some say Management Engineering cannot be considered as an engineering course since it is more on the Management side. Plus the fact that it is not under a College of Engineering. In the case of ADMU, it belongs to the "School of Management". So, can we consider ADMU's M.E. course as just a management course?

> UP's and DLSU's Industrial Engineering courses belong to the College of Engineering of their respective schools. Does this mean that, indeed, they are real engineering courses?

> For DLSU I.E. students... I like the former name of your I.E. course which is "B.S. Industrial Management Engineering". Do you like the former name, as well? Any idea why it was changed?

> Bigatin ba talaga if you're an I.E. or M.E. graduate? Considering the intense mathematical and analytical nature of the two said courses..

> Raymund del Val, a B.S. Industrial Management Engineering graduate at De La Salle University-Manila, is the President and General Manager of Hewlett-Packard Philippines. Do you know other successful people who are I.E. or M.E. graduates?

[monsterboy]

well, i dont know much about Management Engineering, but from my friend's account of it, it borders more on management than on engineering. More on the economics and business rather than on the mathematical analysis and engineering sciences. Maybe the Ateneo peeps can help you out more on this one. :)

Industrial engineering, on the other hand, deals with the improvement and study of systems (distribution, operation, human factors) and the like. Subjects under it would iniclude operations research, ergonomics, statistics and probability, supply chain management, information systems, among many others. This is the iE of UPD, lets wait for some responses from the DLSU IE people. :)

Perhaps if youd like to dwell more on the quantifiable methods, you would probably enjoy IE. If you feel that you would enjoy the"management" side of it all, then ME could be just for you.

> Bigatin ba talaga if you're an I.E. or M.E. graduate? Considering the intense mathematical and analytical nature of the two said courses..

hehehe. subjective question. :D

[Moon Goddess]

Ano ba?

I think magkaibang-magkaiba sila no.

[tesseract]

This was the same question that I asked myself when I applied to the Ateneo and to UP-Diliman. I asked around, and got some answers from some Atenean cousins and friends (taking up ME) and a few of my dad's colleagues (who took up IE).

After putting together the pieces, I came to the following assesment:

1. ME is a management course, with special focus on the quantitative and qualitative aspects of the said field -- operations research, resource management, controls, etc. It's orientation is for managers who want to be able to get down to the nitty-gritty aspects of the different things to manage, particularly in a corporate setting. ME grads get involved in operations which require lots of control and operational management (such as the privitization of certain institutions, such as Napocor). While it is a management course, ME got its "engineering" due to the fact that it is very math-intensive, and since lots of its subjects are what you would find in an engineering school. ME grads are usually picks in the corporate and financial world.

2. IE is an engineering course, with particular focus on resource management. IE is similar to ME in its operations research and distribution. However, it must be noted that this is not a mangement course. IE grads are also picks in the corporate setting.

I believe that this subject is currently being tackled in Atenista.Net.

[tina11]

Originally posted by monsterboy
This is the iE of UPD, lets wait for some responses from the DLSU IE people. :)


i'm not from IE but i do know that in DLSU, IE majors also have to take up the basic engineering subjects like electronic circuits, machine shop, drafting, etc. :)

[mac_bolan00]

schools invent courses for differentiation. they sometimes steal titles blatantly and without remorse. management engineering is a good example.

[Bostsip]

careful macbolan00
we don't want to start flames here


anyway...

I have 2 friends (let's call them J and T) who graduated from IE and ME respectively. They have the habit of comparing their course and they found out that the courses are basically the same but MS is more focused on the Management Part while IE (esp. IN UP Dil.) is more on the technical aspect. IE has more math units, plus units in MEchanical Eng, Electrical eng..which I don't think ME offers

[monsterboy]

Originally posted by Bostsip
careful macbolan00
we don't want to start flames here


anyway...

I have 2 friends (let's call them J and T) who graduated from IE and ME respectively. They have the habit of comparing their course and they found out that the courses are basically the same but MS is more focused on the Management Part while IE (esp. IN UP Dil.) is more on the technical aspect. IE has more math units, plus units in MEchanical Eng, Electrical eng..which I don't think ME offers


right. in ME, they have management/econ/foreign languages. in IE, they have ee, me instead. :)

[tr|n|ty]

IE also has Econ and BA subjects.

[piggy]

it was taught to us that ME is basically just a branch of IE. So ME is like a specialized course with respect to IE...

[tesseract]

Originally posted by piggy
it was taught to us that ME is basically just a branch of IE. So ME is like a specialized course with respect to IE...

Materials Eng, probably, but not Management Eng. From what I've garnered, these are two different courses. But then again, you may have been taught differently. Perhaps the other grads can shed more light on this.

[piggy]

Originally posted by tesseract


Materials Eng, probably, but not Management Eng. From what I've garnered, these are two different courses. But then again, you may have been taught differently. Perhaps the other grads can shed more light on this.

hi tesseract, are you an ME graduate?

[tesseract]

Not yet. I'm not even in college yet. Haha. I just asked around. :)

[rhee]

At the start of the schoolyear, my blockmates and I asked each other what courses we would have been in if we had gone to UP. Much to our amusement, we found that most of us were accepted in the same courses - no, not IE, but BAA or Business Econ. Wala lang. Just something to think about... :)

[ferrisb]

'm.e' is just a naming convention. i have yet to meet a fellow alum who calls himself an engineer. i'd be the first to smack him in the head if he did.

it is what it is -- a management degree with a heavy focus on quantitative management techniques. as to why 'engineering' is part of the name, who cares?

[rao]

hey! you're all too serious
let's have some fun



IE = inde engg
IE = imaginary engg
ENGG = EE + jIE

hehehe

management engineering = an oxymoron

[Bostsip]

:lol:@rao

[m@xELL]

well, i believe ME of ateneo participated in the IE quiz contest held in Subic last feb 2002..DLSU grabbed 1st place....congratulations...we're so proud of you...

[monsterboy]

Originally posted by rao
hey! you're all too serious
let's have some fun



IE = inde engg
IE = imaginary engg
ENGG = EE + jIE

hehehe

management engineering = an oxymoron

:lol:

rao, mukhang eee person ka a. ece perhaps? :lol:

[monsterboy]

double post. dang connection. :mad:

[Greener_Pasture]

Originally posted by Zoltrix
What is the difference between "Industrial Engineering" and "Management Engineering"? Or are they the same?

Which one is better?

Which one is more difficult than the other?

What school offers the best curriculum for the said courses?


> Some say Management Engineering cannot be considered as an engineering course since it is more on the Management side. Plus the fact that it is not under a College of Engineering. In the case of ADMU, it belongs to the "School of Management". So, can we consider ADMU's M.E. course as just a management course?

> UP's and DLSU's Industrial Engineering courses belong to the College of Engineering of their respective schools. Does this mean that, indeed, they are real engineering courses?

> For DLSU I.E. students... I like the former name of your I.E. course which is "B.S. Industrial Management Engineering". Do you like the former name, as well? Any idea why it was changed?

> Bigatin ba talaga if you're an I.E. or M.E. graduate? Considering the intense mathematical and analytical nature of the two said courses..

> Raymund del Val, a B.S. Industrial Management Engineering graduate at De La Salle University-Manila, is the President and General Manager of Hewlett-Packard Philippines. Do you know other successful people who are I.E. or M.E. graduates?


What is the difference between the two said courses? Or are they the same?

Management Engineering

The Management Engineering program is a highly mathematical management program which emphasizes the scientific aspects of decision making. It prepares students to deal with the complexity of modern management, where qualitative decision can hardly be made without the skills needed to analyze quantitative information.

Substantive training in statistics and operations research, as well as in organizational behavior and change management, and enhanced with information technology, has given M.E. graduates the competitive advantage in corporate environments involving large-scale and constantly changing operations. The program is also designed to emphasize value formation of a Filipino in a complex business world. Courses in management, economics, and the social sciences, together with liberal arts subjects, enhance skills in qualitative analysis. The strength of the program lies in its balanced discipline of business sense and management ethics through a quantitative approach.
(ADMU Website)


Industrial Engineering

Industrial engineering has always been integration engineering. While the traditional role of the industrial engineers has to been to integrate human, material, equipment, and financial resources into productive systems, the current emphasis is on the integration of computers, information, and technology to operate and control complex systems. The definition of industrial engineers has changed from that of "efficiency experts" and "productivity people" to "knowledge workers". (Simons, G. R. "Industrial Engineering: From 'Efficiency Expert' to 'Knowledge Worker', Engineering Horizons, pp. 17-19)


Scope

An IE looks at the "big picture" of what makes society perform best - the right combination of human resources, natural resources and man-made structures and equipment, and bridges the gap between management and operations, dealing with and motivating people as well as determining what tools should be used and how they should be used. What sets industrial engineering apart from other engineering disciplines is its broader scope. An IE deals with people as well as things. This diverse orientation makes IE's a prime source of management talent. ("Industrial Engineering: The humanized Profession", The American Institute of Industrial Engineers, Norcross, VA). The breadth of industrial engineering is evidenced by the wide range of such activities as research in biotechnology, development of new concepts of information processing, design of automated factories, and operation of incentive wage plans. Already, the techniques of industrial engineering have been applied in the construction and transportation industries, in farm mangement and crop harvesting, in restaurant and hotel operation, in airplane operation and maintenance, and in major government activities such as the post office and military supply operations. More and more the particular talents of the industrial engineer will find application in the mail-order merchandising and retail store operation, in hospital planning and surgical procedures, in public utilities and banks, and in an ever-widening segment of modern civilization. (Smith, R.J., Butler, B. R., LeBold, W. K., Engineering as Career, McGraw-Hill, New York, NY, 1983, pp.76-83)


Diversity

Industrial engineering is a diverse discipline concerned with the design, improvement, installation, and management of integrated systems of people, materials, and equipment for all kinds of manufacturing and service operations. Industrial engineering is concerned with performance measures and standards, research of new products and product applications, ways to improve use of scarce resources and many other problem-solving adventures. Industrial engineering draws upon specialized knowledge and skill in the mathematical, physical, and social sciences, together with a strong background in engineering analysis and design and the management sciences to specify, predict, and evaluate the performance from such systems. ("Schools of Engineering - Purdue University", Brochure From the schools of Engineering, Purdue University, West Lafayette). An IE may be employed in almost any type of industry, business or institution, from retail establishments to manufacturing plants to government offices to hospitals. Because their skills can be used in almost any type of organization, industrial engineers are more widely distributed among industries than other engineers. For example, industrial engineers work in insurance companies, banks, hospitals, retail organizations, airlines, government agencies, consulting firms, transportation, construction, public utilities, social service, electronics, personnel, sales, facilities design, manufacturing, processing, and warehousing ("Industrial Engineers", Occupational Outlook Handbook).

Efficiency

Industrial engineers determine the most effective ways for an organization to use the basic factors of production - people, machines, materials, and energy. They are more concerned with people and methods of business organization than are engineers in other specialties, who generally work more with products or processes. To solve organizational, production, and related problems most efficiently, industrial engineers design data processing systems and apply mathematical analysis such as operations research. They also develop management control systems to aid in financial planning and cost analysis, design production planning and control systems to coordinate activities and control product quality, and design or improve systems for the physical distribution of goods and services. Industrial engineers conduct surveys to find plant locations with the best combination of raw materials, transportation, and taxes. They also develop wage and salary administration systems and job evaluation programs. Many industrial engineers move into management positions because the work is closely related.

Productivity

Few issues are more important to industry and government today than how to improve productivity. From the offices of corporate presidents to the floors of modern factories, new ways of getting work done are being intensely studied, and where work methods are at issue, industrial engineers play a leading role. ("Schools of Engineering - Purdue University", Brochure From the Schools of Engineering, Purdue University, West Lafayette).

Activities

- Develop applications of new processing, automation, and control technology
- Install data processing , management information, wage incentive systems
- Develop performance standards, job evaluation, wage and salary programs
- Research new products and product applications
- Improve productivity through application of technology and human factors
- Select operating processes and methods to do a task with proper tools and equipment
- Design facilities, management systems, operating procedures
- Improve planning and allocation of scarce resources
- Enhance plant environment and quality of people's working life
- Evaluate reliability and quality performance
- Develop management control systems to aid in financial planning and cost analysis
- Implement office systems, procedures, and policies
- Analyze complex business problems by operations research
- Conduct organization studies, plant location surveys, and system effectiveness studies
- Study potential markets for goods and services, raw material sources, labor supply, energy resources, financing, and taxes


Which one is better?

For me, It's I.E. The definition above speaks for itself.


Which one is more difficult than the other?

I.E. It's a registered Engineering course which really makes it difficult compared to just a management course.


What school offers the best curriculum for the said courses?

UP and DLSU-M


> Some say Management Engineering cannot be considered as an engineering course since it is more on the Management side. Plus the fact that it is not under a College of Engineering. In the case of ADMU, it belongs to the "School of Management". So, can we consider ADMU's M.E. course as just a management course?

M.E. is clearly just a management course under ADMU's School of Management


> UP's and DLSU's Industrial Engineering courses belong to the College of Engineering of their respective schools. Does this mean that, indeed, they are real engineering courses?

Indeed, they are bonafide engineering courses. Both schools are recognized and registered under CHED.


> Bigatin ba talaga if you're an I.E. or M.E. graduate? Considering the intense mathematical and analytical nature of the two said courses..

Modesty aside, Yes! That's why they are referred to as the "Cream of the Crop". They are also called the "Jack of all Trades".


:)

[tesseract]

Maybe the ME grads can shed more light? Oscar01 or somebody with experience?

[Oscar01]

Wow... that's an impressive set of references. :)

Simply, I'd just say Management Engineering is a very fun, "loaded" course that covers all the major management fields from a medium-large scale perspective.

The "Engineering" label is misleading, though, and it's not meant to be an engineering course. I don't think you'll get very far if you try to compare it to one.

I have a lot of ME classmates who are now in Marketing positions, for example, and that's no engineering specialty. But, hey, one DID appear in a beauty pageant to represent Unilever recently, so I don't hear any complaints. :)

[Oscar01]

Talking specifics, Tesseract, that long description covers ME's Production Management and Operations Research lines, plus the background mathematics.

Optimizing the work processes and all that is a big part of ME, but there are other subjects which are clearly non-engineering such as Finance, Marketing, Accounting, Economics, Human Resources, etc.

[tirador]

hey, up ie and dlsu an ust ie have other engg subjects suck as ee, me - thermodyanmics, es (mechanics, dynamics,etc). pero lahat sila (including admu) may operations research, stats and probabilities. up lang ang may ergonomics. ang up ie more manufacturing at very technical -- puro projects. me ng admu more management talaga. yun lang muna siguro. check nyo na lang yung curriculum ng ie at me. then see the difference.

[rabbaddal]

Here's something that was posted in another forum in response to greener_pastures. As a backgound, IE and ME are 2 different courses. Comparing them would be like comparing apples and oranges. In theory, ME focuses on teaching future managers how to use quantitative models to make business decisions. It deals with advanced applied math subjects such as Operations Research, Game Theory, Stochastic methods, etc. So it's not true that IE has more math than ME. The truth is that after taking the basic math courses (Calculus, Trigo, Stat, etc.), the major business subjects in ME are very math intensive and application-oriented. To simply say that it is "business oriented" is an understatement because ME takes a very different approach to solving business problems than the regular commerce courses do.

IE, on the other hand, deals with improving and building manufacturing and commercial processes. It focuses on topics such as Production Management, Shop-floor, Distribution, etc.

Anyway, as I promised, here's the writup posted by someone else in another forum:

Which one is better

For me, it's M.E. because it got me to where I am today. I'm in my early 40s and I can retire today if I want to. I know many people in my batch who are in the same position.

Which one is more difficult than the other?

For me, my guess would be M.E. Why? Because my quantitative abilities are much stronger than my qualitative skills and M.E. in the Ateneo demands well-roundedness in terms of skills and abilities. I have always had an easier time with mathematics and the sciences. M.E. and the Ateneo education in general demand well-developed oral and written communication skills, abstract reasoning abilities, etc. The battery of oral and written exams in Philosophy, Theology, etc. require that one can think and communicate clearly and logically.

In my batch, there were orginally over 200 of us in the freshmen year but only 41 graduated. At least 50% is comprised of H.S. valedictorians, salutatorians and honor students. The composition of the M.E. class(es) in itself raises the level of competition and bar of excellence. Futhermore, schools have different standards. For instance, I.E. in DLSU is different from I.E. in UP or I.E. in Adamson in terms of degree of difficulty. Comparing I.E. and M.E. is compounded by the fact that the two are different courses offered by two different schools.
Bottom line, I don't know for sure which one is harder but, for me, my guess would be M.E.

Which school offers the best curriculum for the said courses?

I can't speak for I.E. As far as M.E. is concerned, I would say the Ateneo.

Some say Management Engineering cannot be considered as an engineering course since it is more on the Management side. Plus the fact that it is not under a College of Engineering. In the case of ADMU, it belongs to the "School of Management". So, can we consider ADMU's M.E. course as just a management course?

M.E. is clearly a management course under ADMU's School of Management. But it is also clearly not just a management course judging from the high caliber of the students it is attracting and the bar of excellence required of the students. M.E. students from the Ateneo have consistently won in interscholastic competitions (even vs. engineering students in DLSU and UP) in subjects like Operations Research and Statistics (Source: Stat-Is-Eeek Competition). M.E. students tend to come from the top 10% percentile of the pool of incoming freshmen.

Bigatin ba talaga if you're an I.E. or M.E. graduate?

Considering the intense mathematical and analytical nature of the two said courses.. I can't say anything about I.E. other than what I think based on my limited exposure to some I.E. students from DLSU and I'd rather keep my opinion to myself. I have been away from the Philippines for over a decade and I have had very limited contact with students from Ateneo. I haven't kept track of the M.E. alumni. The handful that I have heard of are quite successful. To name a few........

Aurelio Montinola (ME 74, Harvard MBA), President of BPI Family Bank

Gregorio Domingo (ME 77, Wharton MBA), Governor of the Board of Investments

Cesar Totanes (ME 76, Harvard MBA), SVP, World Bank (IFC) (Washington DC)

Antonio Infante (ME 76, Wharton MBA), SVP, Visa International (South San Francisco, CA)

Rafael Lumanlan (ME 76, Oxford MPhil), President, Serra Investments, Inc. (a $400 MM VC firm in Silicon Valley); Managing Director, BNP Paribas (San Francisco)

Uy Chun Bing (ME 76, Masters??), EVP, Rizal Commercial Banking Corp.

Val Araneta (ME ?, Masters??), CEO, Rizal Commercial Banking Corp.

Cesar Balota (ME 76, Masters??), Head of Johnson & Johnson (Singapore)

Asterio Favis, Jr. (ME 76), SVP, AB Capital and Investments

Ceferino Carreon, Jr. (ME 76, Kellogg MBA), multi-millionaire and global investor in the telecom industry

Robert Sy (ME 77, Harvard MBA), Managing Director (SVP), Asian Development Bank

Jose Matthias (ME 75, Harvard MBA), President, Verizon Wireless (CA).

Arthur Medel (ME 77, Oxford), Managing Director, Hambrecht & Quist (San Francisco)

And many more...

I'd like to make a few additions to the powerhouse ME alumni list above (- rabbaddal):

Josie dela Cruz (ME, ??), Governor of Bulacan

Alexandra Ramos (ME 94, Kellogg), President - Powerbooks

Joey Mendoza (ME 83), President & General Manager - Lucent Technologies South Asia

Jocelyn Jalandoni-Perez (ME 86), Finance Director - The Phinma Group of Companies

Beatriz Delgado-Padilla (ME 91, Wharton) - Former Chief Financial Officer - Islacom

and many more...

Yup. IE and ME are different courses indeed.

[kiko_ocampo]

well, i think basing on each school's reputation...if you're an IE from UP, chances are you are more familiar with the technical side of the business plus of course taken for granted that are exposed to the simulated working environment because you are with people from all walks of like compared to Ateneo there is a degree of limitation in terms of social exposure and let us not be hypocrite about this because of its kind of people and environment, in simple terms - pangmayaman. i believe pareho lang, it's just the price and quality of education that is different plus the catchy 'management' + 'engineering'. what i like about this course is its not having any board exams. ito and course na pag-graduate mo, boss ka ng lahat ng other engineering students since you know a little of everything plus the leadership factor rin.
choosing between schools is a matter of principles and money. hey you can graduate from up and still go on to harvard with paying the exorbitant fees of ateneo for its 'theologica'l approach to education.

[mac_bolan00]

Originally posted by rabbaddal
For me, it's M.E. because it got me to where I am today. I'm in my early 40s and I can retire today if I want to. I know many people in my batch who are in the same position.

Aurelio Montinola (ME 74, Harvard MBA), President of BPI Family Bank

Gregorio Domingo (ME 77, Wharton MBA), Governor of the Board of Investments

Cesar Totanes (ME 76, Harvard MBA), SVP, World Bank (IFC) (Washington DC)

Antonio Infante (ME 76, Wharton MBA), SVP, Visa International (South San Francisco, CA)

Rafael Lumanlan (ME 76, Oxford MPhil), President, Serra Investments, Inc. (a $400 MM VC firm in Silicon Valley); Managing Director, BNP Paribas (San Francisco)

Uy Chun Bing (ME 76, Masters??), EVP, Rizal Commercial Banking Corp.

Val Araneta (ME ?, Masters??), CEO, Rizal Commercial Banking Corp.

Cesar Balota (ME 76, Masters??), Head of Johnson & Johnson (Singapore)

Asterio Favis, Jr. (ME 76), SVP, AB Capital and Investments

Ceferino Carreon, Jr. (ME 76, Kellogg MBA), multi-millionaire and global investor in the telecom industry

Robert Sy (ME 77, Harvard MBA), Managing Director (SVP), Asian Development Bank

Jose Matthias (ME 75, Harvard MBA), President, Verizon Wireless (CA).

Arthur Medel (ME 77, Oxford), Managing Director, Hambrecht & Quist (San Francisco)

And many more...

I'd like to make a few additions to the powerhouse ME alumni list above (- rabbaddal):

Josie dela Cruz (ME, ??), Governor of Bulacan

Alexandra Ramos (ME 94, Kellogg), President - Powerbooks

Joey Mendoza (ME 83), President & General Manager - Lucent Technologies South Asia

Jocelyn Jalandoni-Perez (ME 86), Finance Director - The Phinma Group of Companies

Beatriz Delgado-Padilla (ME 91, Wharton) - Former Chief Financial Officer - Islacom

and many more...

Yup. IE and ME are different courses indeed.

if you're past 40 then you should know that name-dropping is pointless when discussing different curricula. in your list, i saw at least FIVE guys who owe their current positions more on their pedigree and inherited wealth. their common choice for undergrad degrees appear incidental.

glad to be talking to someone older than me for a change.

;)

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by mac_bolan00


if you're past 40 then you should know that name-dropping is pointless when discussing different curricula. in your list, i saw at least FIVE guys who owe their current positions more on their pedigree and inherited wealth. their common choice for undergrad degrees appear incidental.

glad to be talking to someone older than me for a change.

;)

Sigh. Rather than judge you, I’ll just take what you said for what it’s worth. I’ll assume that you were merely careless and didn’t really rationalize before you wrote this. But my tip to you is this – Get your facts straight before you jump to any conclusion, especially in public. Normally, I’d ask you to read the thread again. But this time, I’ll hand the facts to you on a silver platter:

Originally posted by mac_bolan00

if you're past 40...



I didn't say that I was past 40. I’m much younger than that. As I said in my post, someone else wrote it in another forum. He was responding to exactly the same post by greener_pastures in another forum.

Originally posted by mac_bolan00

... name-dropping is pointless when discussing different curricula...



This thing you call “name dropping” was a specific answer to a specific question. Read the very first post in this thread – “Raymund del Val, a B.S. Industrial Management Engineering graduate at De La Salle University-Manila, is the President and General Manager of Hewlett-Packard Philippines. Do you know other successful people who are I.E. or M.E. graduates?” This was posted by Zoltirx, who ,by the way, did his own “name dropping”. So you see, I wasn’t the one who set this criteria. The guy who started this whole thread was the one who did. The difference was that I had more and bigger names to drop. Also, if you bothered to read, you will see that this wasn’t the only criteria that was used.

Originally posted by mac_bolan00


...in your list, i saw at least FIVE guys who owe their current positions more on their pedigree and inherited wealth...



Really? Who? Why do you say so? Tell me who these five guys are and I can assure you that I can tell you why not. But before you do that, remember what I said – Get your facts straight.

Originally posted by mac_bolan00

...their common choice for undergrad degrees appear incidental...



What do you mean when you say their common choice appears to be “incidental”? How can something chosen be incidental?

I suggest that you go through the posts above again. Also, you may have to do some background research on the "at least FIVE guys who owe their current positions more on their pedigree and inherited wealth".

[straightshooter]

Rabbaddal,

While we're in the subject of name-dropping, do you, by any chance, know Gener Mendoza? He graduated summa cum laude, Management En'g, from the Ateneo, year 78,79 or 80? Where is he now?

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by straightshooter
Rabbaddal,

While we're in the subject of name-dropping, do you, by any chance, know Gener Mendoza? He graduated summa cum laude, Management En'g, from the Ateneo, year 78,79 or 80? Where is he now?

Sorry, I don't know him. I graduated many, many batches after 78, 79 or 80. We also had an ME summa cum laude in our batch - a girl in fact. Is this for some business reason? You can try sending an e-mail to alumni@admu.edu.ph. Or better yet, why not try going to the alumni office directly and just tell them that you're interested in getting in touch with Mr. Gener Mendoza.

[KuyaDanny]

Originally posted by straightshooter
While we're in the subject of name-dropping, do you, by any chance, know Gener Mendoza? He graduated summa cum laude, Management En'g, from the Ateneo, year 78,79 or 80? Where is he now?

Gener graduated in 1979. He got an MBA from Harvard. He worked at SGV for quite a while, after which he followed his mentor (Rufo Colayco) to the Kuok Group. Colayco no longer works for Kuok, and neither does Gener. We haven't been in touch for almost five years now.

What do you need from him? I might still be able to get a message through. Reply here or send me a PM.

[straightshooter]

Originally posted by KuyaDanny


Gener graduated in 1979. He got an MBA from Harvard. He worked at SGV for quite a while, after which he followed his mentor (Rufo Colayco) to the Kuok Group. Colayco no longer works for Kuok, and neither does Gener. We haven't been in touch for almost five years now.

What do you need from him? I might still be able to get a message through. Reply here or send me a PM.

Wala naman. Just wanted to know how he's been. Idol yun. Tinik eh.

[mac_bolan00]

Originally posted by rabbaddal
This thing you call “name dropping” was a specific answer to a specific question.

i knew that, blue boy. i knew exactly what i was doing: pointing out the error to your correspondence with the first guy.

Really? Who? Why do you say so? Tell me who these five guys are and I can assure you that I can tell you why not. But before you do that, remember what I said – Get your facts straight.

double sigh. i know about those people and the people they've worked with. sometimes, i'm not applying this to the five i know, it's as simple as making it to VP or even CEO just because dear old dad happened to own majority.

some straight-lace kid still believes everything comes from merit. the whole makati skyline is a f_cking feudal territory. show me a company recruitment officer who says his/her company gives an equal chance to all 'nominally' qualified applicants and i'll tell you that person is a liar.

how can something chosen be incidental?

don't get it? sheesh.....

[Greener_Pasture]

I like and prefer Industrial Engineering over Management Engineering and all other courses because I.E. is such a DIVERSE discipline.

It tackles and deals with so many fields of knowledge including:

- Engineering
- Economics
- Management
- Marketing
- Production Management
- Product Design
- Probability & Statistics
- Accounting
- Advanced Mathematics
- Computer Programming & Simulation
- System Dynamics
- Organization Decision Making
- Financial Management
- Management of Information Systems
- Human Behavior
- Human Dynamics
- Anthropometry
- Biomechanics
- Ergonomics
- Operations Research
- Cognitive Engineering
- Production / Operation Systems
- Chemistry
- Physics
- Drafting
- Communication Arts
- Thermodynamics
- Systems Analysis & Design
- Philosophy
- Technology Management
- Occupational Safety & Health
- Sociology
- Information & Technology
- Environmental Engineering
- Etc.


Just to give you an idea, I'm from De La Salle University-Manila and our specific core IE subjects (excluding the minor subjects such as Physics, Thermodynamics, IT, Sociology, etc.) can be seen in this link: DLSU I.E. (http://www.dlsu.edu.ph/colleges/coe/ind_eng/ind_eng_curr.html)


This diverse orientation makes IE's a prime source of management talent. ("Industrial Engineering: The humanized Profession", The American Institute of Industrial Engineers, Norcross, VA).

Moreover, Industrial Engineers are not just limited to managing or management. Their gleaming edge is the inherrent ability to "DESIGN & DEVELOP industries". That's why the course is called "(Industrial) (Engineering)".



:)

>>>=======>>

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by mac_bolan00
Originally posted by rabbaddal
This thing you call “name dropping” was a specific answer to a specific question.

i knew that, blue boy. i knew exactly what i was doing: pointing out the error to your correspondence with the first guy.

Really? Who? Why do you say so? Tell me who these five guys are and I can assure you that I can tell you why not. But before you do that, remember what I said – Get your facts straight.

double sigh. i know about those people and the people they've worked with. sometimes, i'm not applying this to the five i know, it's as simple as making it to VP or even CEO just because dear old dad happened to own majority.

some straight-lace kid still believes everything comes from merit. the whole makati skyline is a f_cking feudal territory. show me a company recruitment officer who says his/her company gives an equal chance to all 'nominally' qualified applicants and i'll tell you that person is a liar.

how can something chosen be incidental?

don't get it? sheesh.....

Well if you have any qualms about name dropping, go ask Zoltrix first. I don't see anything wrong with that though.

I really don't know about the people you work with, but I can assure you that I can tell you why those in the list above did not "owe their current positions more on their pedigree and inherited wealth". .

And again I ask you - how can something chosen be incidental? The fact is they could have chosen another course. Or perhaps they could have chosen to study in another school. I don't see anything incidental there.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Greener_Pasture
I like and prefer Industrial Engineering over Management Engineering and all other courses because I.E. is such a DIVERSE discipline.


Just to give you an idea, I'm from De La Salle University-Manila and our specific core IE subjects (excluding the minor subjects such as Physics, Thermodynamics, IT, Sociology, etc.) can be seen in this link: DLSU I.E. (http://www.dlsu.edu.ph/colleges/coe/ind_eng/ind_eng_curr.html)


This diverse orientation makes IE's a prime source of management talent. ("Industrial Engineering: The humanized Profession", The American Institute of Industrial Engineers, Norcross, VA).

Moreover, Industrial Engineers are not just limited to managing or management. Their gleaming edge is the inherrent ability to "DESIGN & DEVELOP industries". That's why the course is called "(Industrial) (Engineering)".


:)

>>>=======>>

Greener _Pasture,

Here is the flaw in your analysis – you try to judge which program is better based on each program’s intrinsic qualities. The reason why it’s flawed is because each program is intrinsically different. Comparing both on this basis alone would be like comparing an apple to an orange. ME also covers most of the subject areas that you mentioned in your list including Simulation, MIS, Technology, etc.. ME students also have to study Humanities subjects Philosophy, Theology, History, the Social Sciences (Economics, PolSci, Anthropology, etc.). The difference is that ME does not deal with the traditional engineering subjects such as Thermodynamics, Occupational Safety and Health, Drafting, etc. Instead, ME major (in IE terms, the traditional engineering subjects) subjects that use quantitative models to make managerial decisions. These subjects include Regression Analysis, Game Theory, Decision Trees, etc. Even Operations Research (OR) in ME is different from OR in IE in the sense that ME’s flavor of OR is more attuned to finding the optimal business decision (ex. What is the optimal portfolio of stocks that I should own to maximize returns?, How have regional currencies become more interdependent after the crash of the Thai Baht?).

Also, it’s not enough to say – "Their gleaming edge is the inherent ability to "DESIGN & DEVELOP industries" That's why the course is called "(Industrial) (Engineering)". “

I can easily cut and paste a similar statement from the MIT management science website for something that supports ME. But such statements will be useless unless you can relate it to your specific experience of IE. That is, given that IE has the inherent ability to design and develop industries, how does this make IE superior to ME? What does it mean to “design and develop” industries, and how is IE (or more specifically, La Salle’s IE) unique in this field? Can’t other fields “design and develop” industries (assuming of course you know what designing and developing industries are all about)?

So, based on intrinsic qualities alone, you cannot tell which program is better. How then can we tell which program is better? We can tell which program is better by using standards that are measurable across these two intrinsically different programs. I say ME is better that IE. Here are some examples:

Diversity

This is your criteria. ME has the edge because its students have to complete more units in the humanities than IE students in other schools do (aka., ME students have to take more non-majors over and above their major subjects than IE students do). In the words of the guy I quoted (I think his name is GoBlue) - "The battery of oral and written exams in Philosophy, Theology, etc. require that one can think and communicate clearly and logically." This means that ME majors are not just quant jocks, but they also develop skills that enrich their human experience.

The Caliber of the Students

According to GoBlue, at least 50% of his ME class in the 70s were valedictorians, salutatorians, and honor students. In my time (late 90s), the number was higher at around 60%. To be admitted into the ME program means that you are within the top 10 percentile of your incoming batch. This raises the competition and bar of excellence. Why? Because the curve grading system forces you to keep your grades within or above the average grade of the class. If your grades fall short of the average (even if you score a passing 75%), you will receive bottom-end grades if the rest of your class scores much higher on average. Accomplishing this while taking highly quantitative and qualitative subjects in a class where 60% of your peers are honor-caliber is no joke. If you don’t meet the bar of excellence, you will be asked to leave ME. You really have to compete to survive.

The Success of the Alumni

Well, it really depends on what fields you’re looking at. If you want to look at the factory management field, then I would say DLSU’s IE program has been more successful than ME. In fact, I don’t know of any ME alumnus who manages a factory right now.

But if you look at all industries (not just in business but other non-commercial fields as well) in general, I would say ME alumni have been more successful than IE alumni. And the success of the alumni is a very strong reflection of the quality of a program, contrary to what other people in this forum may think.

GoBlue’s list alone is quite impressive. And that only includes alumni from the 70s. Far more successful alumni have graduated from the ME program since then and I haven’t kept track of the ones that came from the batches between GoBlue’s and mine. As for the ME graduates of my time, well many of them are still studying business schools around the world. Those that have finished their graduate studies recently have found jobs in the world’s finest employers such as McKinsey, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, etc.

World Class Caliber

This is related to my second and third criteria in the sense that the highly competitive environment in ME prepares its graduates for even more competition in the future. Going back to the alumni list, you will see that many of them have been admitted into the world’s top business schools, where only 600 out of 6000 applicants on average are admitted. To get into a school like Wharton means that you have to bump off outstanding applicants from around the world, many of these other applicants went to college in Ivy League schools. After graduation, GoBlue’s contemporaries (and even GoBlue himself) have gone on to successful careers in world-class firms. They have become managing directors in investment banks, partners in consulting firms, entrepreneurs who set up Venture Capital funds, Hedge Fund managers (aka., you manage your own fund), etc. In the process, they have competed and won over other professionals from around the world.

So, in terms of standards that can be measured across these two intrinsically different programs, I would say that ME is better than IE.

But as to what program a college applicant should choose, I really can’t say. I all depends on your interests. If you prefer studying traditional engineering fields (ex., thermodynamics), then take IE. But if you want to get a more well-rounded management education with a highly quantitative flavor, and if you have the heart to compete against peers that are the best of the best, then take ME.

Just to give you an idea, Greener_Pasture, I’m an MBA student in Columbia. There are only 2 other Filipinos admitted into our batch. Both of them are from Ateneo and one of them is also an ME graduate. Currently, I’m the Vice President of the Columbia Technology Society. During the society’s elections, I competed against a Stanford graduate who already started his own tech company in the Silicon Valley. I credit this to the competitiveness that I learned while I was an ME student (graduated in the late 90s). Among my ME peers, I was just an average student with average grades. But I have always preferred to be a small fish in a big ocean.

But I thank you very much, Greener_Pasture, for sharing your points of view. It's nice to hear from someone who's actually studying IE.

[Oscar01]

Originally posted by rabbaddal ...This raises the competition and bar of excellence. Why? Because the curve grading system forces you to keep your grades within or above the average grade of the class. If your grades fall short of the average (even if you score a passing 75%), you will receive bottom-end grades if the rest of your class scores much higher on average. Accomplishing this while taking highly quantitative and qualitative subjects in a class where 60% of your peers are honor-caliber is no joke. If you don’t meet the bar of excellence, you will be asked to leave ME. You really have to compete to survive.
I'd emphasize, though, that curving is something ME teachers DON'T do.

It makes sense. I'd want to compete against my own standards, not against whatever my classmates get. I think it fosters teamwork, without adding unnecessary competition to an already stress-filled program.

Nothing personal, but I never believed in the above approach to excellence.

[Greener_Pasture]

originally posted by piggy
it was taught to us that ME is basically just a branch of IE. So ME is like a specialized course with respect to IE...
I agree, in way.


originally posted by m@xELL
well, i believe ME of ateneo participated in the IE quiz contest held in Subic last feb 2002..DLSU grabbed 1st place....congratulations...we're so proud of you...
Yes, it's true. DLSU has once again showed it's supremacy in this field. Congratulations!


originally posted by Oscar01[/i]
The "Engineering" label is misleading, though, and it's not meant to be an engineering course.
I agree because the course is not a registered Engineering course under CHED. That's why its somehow misleading. They should use "Management Science" instead because this where they patterned the ME course.


originally posted by [b]kiko_ocampo
i believe pareho lang, it's just the price and quality of education that is different plus the catchy 'management' + 'engineering'.
Very catchy indeed. Like the former name of DLSU's IE which is "Industrial Management Engineering".



originally posted by rabbaddal
Here is the flaw in your analysis – you try to judge which program is better based on each program’s intrinsic qualities. The reason why it’s flawed is because each program is intrinsically different.

Different in a way, but if you'll take time to examine and compare the Curriculum of the two said courses, you'll discover that the core subjects of each course is almost the same.
This makes the two courses worthy of comparison. And this is also why we can see Ateneo M.E. students joining in various Industrial Engineering Quiz Shows. Let's just face reality.

Anyway, the distinguishing factor of M.E. is that it is very loaded with Theology and Humanities subjects such as Catholic Theology, Philosophy of Human Person, Philosophy of Religion, etc. Based on ADMU's present Management Engineering Curriculum, which is composed of 56 subjects, 12 subjects are centered on Theology & Humanities; this is about 21% of the whole curriculum. Speaking of Minor subjects(PE, Philippine History, Rizal, etc.), it occupies 21 out of the 56 subjects; which is 38%. What is left of the core M.E. curriculum(Operations Research, Math, Statistics, etc.) is just 41%. A great majority of this 41% is tackled and is also under Industrial Engineering (compare the two curriculums and see for yourself). So, maybe that's why some people, like piggy, claim that M.E. can just be considered as a branch of I.E. But besides this, we should give credit to the M.E. curriculum because of "the battery of oral and written exams in Philosophy, Theology, etc.", as they say it. Although some do not buy this theology and "man for others" stuff.

On the other hand, DLSU's Industrial Engineering Curriculum is composed of 91 subjects. 40 of which comprises the core curriculum of IE; which equates to 44%. In terms of theology and humanities subjects, it has 7 which include RELSONE, RELSTWO, RELSTRI, RELSFOR, INTPHIL, HUBEHOR, & HUMADYN. From RELSONE(Religion1) up to RELSFOR(Religion4) alone, a very complete theological and humanitarian foundation is already molded into the students. Plus the fact they become socially aware because of the Actual Parish and Social Service that is required of the students in the said subjects. ie. Theology in IE is not just a "battery of oral & written exams", but a bombardment of Practical and Real-life applications as well. In terms of non-major subjects, the list is still very extensive having 44 subjects; which is equivalent to 48% of the entire curriculum. In this 48% lies other competitive and highly mathematical subjects mostly engineering ones such as: Mechanics, Thermodynamics, Analytic & Solid Geometry, Engineering Analysis, Structural Engineering and Drafting, Computer Programming, etc. More than the management skill, IEs have the technical know-how to back it all up.

originally posted by rabbaddal
Instead, ME major (in IE terms, the traditional engineering subjects) subjects that use quantitative models to make managerial decisions. These subjects include Regression Analysis, Game Theory, Decision Trees, etc.

All of these are covered by IE. In DLSU's case, it falls under the subjects QUAMETH and OPERES 1 to 3, which are included in the IE core curriculum. Please correct your perception that IE majors more on the traditional engineering subjects. Adding to this, IEs also major on modern engineering trends such as Ergonomics, Advanced Manufacturing Systems, Management of Technology, etc.

originally posted by rabbaddal
Even Operations Research (OR) in ME is different from OR in IE in the sense that ME’s flavor of OR is more attuned to finding the optimal business decision (ex. What is the optimal portfolio of stocks that I should own to maximize returns?, How have regional currencies become more interdependent after the crash of the Thai Baht?).

Not surprisingly, we also do the same. Our understanding of Operations Research is very flexible and is not just constrained to the shop floor. We also handle cases pertaining to service firms, banking institutions, stocks, and other stochastic scenarios.

originally posted by rabbaddal
Also, it’s not enough to say – "Their gleaming edge is the inherent ability to "DESIGN & DEVELOP industries" That's why the course is called "(Industrial) (Engineering)".

This is just my opinion and i didn't copy-paste it from anywhere. If you thought deeper and read between the lines, i'm saying here that IEs can become good businessmen. In fact, i heard many IEs going into business and some putting up their own corporations.

originally posted by rabbaddal
Diversity
This is your criteria. ME has the edge because its students have to complete more units in the humanities than IE students in other schools do (aka., ME students have to take more non-majors over and above their major subjects than IE students do).

ME may have more units in humanities having a battery of oral and written exams, but IEs on the other hand, are more practical and hands-on to their approach. Actual Social Service is a requirement in the Religion/Theology subjects.

In terms of non-major subjects, 48% (44 of 91 subjects) of the DLSU IE Curriculum is composed of non-major subjects. In ADMU's ME, the composition of non-major subjects is lower at just 38% (21 of 56 subjects), contrary to what Rabbaddal said.

originally posted by rabbaddal
According to GoBlue, at least 50% of his ME class in the 70s were valedictorians, salutatorians, and honor students. In my time (late 90s), the number was higher at around 60%. To be admitted into the ME program means that you are within the top 10 percentile of your incoming batch. This raises the competition and bar of excellence. Why? Because the curve grading system forces you to keep your grades within or above the average grade of the class. If your grades fall short of the average (even if you score a passing 75%), you will receive bottom-end grades if the rest of your class scores much higher on average.

The same is true with DLSU IE. Majority of the students are high school achievers. Moreover, there are even geniuses included. Plus there are many Chinese Math Wizards. In terms of the IE population, many are Chinese, which are about 60 to 75% of the whole population. Even the professor's pool are even dominated by Chinese men. Curve grading system is also being followed.

originally posted by rabbaddal
World Class Caliber
This is related to my second and third criteria in the sense that the highly competitive environment in ME prepares its graduates for even more competition in the future. Going back to the alumni list, you will see that many of them have been admitted into the world’s top business schools, where only 600 out of 6000 applicants on average are admitted. To get into a school like Wharton means that you have to bump off outstanding applicants from around the world, many of these other applicants went to college in Ivy League schools.

ME students have managed to go to Top Business Schools. But remember that DLSU and UP also have it's share of IE students landing on the Top Business Schools. Like for example Delfin Gonzales, DLSU Industrial Management Engineering(former name of IE) batch 80 got a Harvard MBA.He is now the Chief Financial Officer of Globe Telecoms.

originally posted by rabbaddal
But as to what program a college applicant should choose, I really can’t say. I all depends on your interests. If you prefer studying traditional engineering fields (ex., thermodynamics), then take IE. But if you want to get a more well-rounded management education with a highly quantitative flavor, and if you have the heart to compete against peers that are the best of the best, then take ME.

Nice write-up favoring ME.
My own write-up:

If you want a bonafide and genuine Engineering course recognized by CHED rather than a misleading but catchy "management engineering" course, choose IE.

If you want a very diverse discipline covering the three functional areas of all industries: Production, Marketing, and Finance, choose IE.

If you want a whollistic understanding of how industries work and operate; ie. the INs and OUTs of a business or industry, choose IE.

If you want a taste of modern engineering blended with a touch of traditional engineering, choose IE.

If you want the capability to establish and run a business, distinctively founded on the specialized knowledge of the mathematical, physical, social, engineering, and management sciences, IE is definitely the choice.

originally posted by rabbaddal
But I thank you very much, Greener_Pasture, for sharing your points of view. It's nice to hear from someone who's actually studying IE.

Thank you so much too. Thanks for shedding some light on this IE vs ME issue. Good Luck in your studies there!



:)

[Oscar01]

I agree because the course is not a registered Engineering course under CHED. That's why its somehow misleading. They should use "Management Science" instead because this where they patterned the ME course.
Yes, they said "Management Science" is the more accurate term.

But... IE includes an emphasis on Finance and Marketing?

[Greener_Pasture]

Originally posted by Oscar01

Yes, they said "Management Science" is the more accurate term.

But... IE includes an emphasis on Finance and Marketing?

As i mentioned before:
Industrial engineering has always been integration engineering. While the traditional role of the industrial engineers has to been to integrate human, material, equipment, and financial resources into productive systems, the current emphasis is on the integration of computers, information, and technology to operate and control complex systems. (Simons, G. R. "Industrial Engineering: From 'Efficiency Expert' to 'Knowledge Worker', Engineering Horizons, pp. 17-19)

Because of their ability to integrate things, IEs are now bridging the gap amongst the three functional areas of an organization namely Production, Marketing, and Finance. In most companies, success is somehow hampered because these three areas are not fully integrated. One weak area, eg. Production, leads to the weakening and underutilization of the entire system. Knowing that IEs develop this unique talent of "looking at the big picture of things", they become very effective in bridging the said gaps.

Anyway, I didn't say that Industrial Engineering "emphasizes" on Marketing and Finance. The two said fields are just being "covered" by the IE course. But still, IE students are very competent & reliable in these two fields because of the adequate training and preparation that they have on them.

The point is: Other courses, let's say Management Engineering, also covers these three functional areas: Production, Marketing and Finance. But I can say that no other course can effectively "integrate" these three areas as much and as good as Industrial Engineering.

"The strength of Industrial Engineers lies on their ability to 'look at the big picture' of any organization and to provide ways and means 'to effectively integrate' it's vital elements into a synergistic and coherent whole." (Source: P.J. Ples, DLSU I.E. batch '97)

[Exterminator]

We can spend all day arguing which one is better, I.E. or M.E., but we will never reach a universally acceptable conclusion.

Why?

- Because I.E. and M.E. are different courses as people above have argued.

- It's very difficult to make a valid comparison based on course descriptions. What is on paper may not correspond to reality. A description can be long, detailed and elaborate but it may not amount to anything if the execution is flawed (eg if the school offering the course has unqualified teachers or marginal students).

- Let's face it. Schools have different standards. One cannot say that I.E. in DLSU is exactly the same as I.E. in U.P., Adamson University, or MIT. Comparing I.E. to Ateneo's M.E. is further compounded by the fact that these are two different courses offered by two different schools. Definitely apples to oranges.

- We can never resolved what's better unless we can agree on an objective definition of "better." Further, we have to agree on accurate, quantitative measures of what constitute "better." We know we'll never resolve this.

Conclusion: There's no point in arguing which one is better. This will never be resolved. However, a good, albeit imperfect, proxy for "better" is a comparison of the graduates' status and achievements. Where are they then and now? And based on the cursory discussion(s) above, one can make up his/her own conclusion(s).

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Exterminator
We can spend all day arguing which one is better, I.E. or M.E., but we will never reach a universally acceptable conclusion.

Why?

- Because I.E. and M.E. are different courses as people above have argued.

- It's very difficult to make a valid comparison based on course descriptions. What is on paper may not correspond to reality. A description can be long, detailed and elaborate but it may not amount to anything if the execution is flawed (eg if the school offering the course has unqualified teachers or marginal students).

- Let's face it. Schools have different standards. One cannot say that I.E. in DLSU is exactly the same as I.E. in U.P., Adamson University, or MIT. Comparing I.E. to Ateneo's M.E. is further compounded by the fact that these are two different courses offered by two different schools. Definitely apples to oranges.

- We can never resolved what's better unless we can agree on an objective definition of "better." Further, we have to agree on accurate, quantitative measures of what constitute "better." We know we'll never resolve this.

Conclusion: There's no point in arguing which one is better. This will never be resolved. However, a good, albeit imperfect, proxy for "better" is a comparison of the graduates' status and achievements. Where are they then and now? And based on the cursory discussion(s) above, one can make up his/her own conclusion(s).

I agree with you on this. Let the performance (and to what extent that their performances are world class - meaning how they measure up and stand out among the world's finest in their chosen profession) of the alumni be the barometer of the effectiveness of the program. I do know of a couple of UP IE grads who have excelled in the globel arena - Ramon Jocson (UP IE, GM IBM Global Services Southeast Asia) and Joaquin "Jajo" Quintos (UP IE, IBM Director for Worldwide Small Business Marketing.

I don’t agree that IE is uniquely integration engineering. My peers who are now working for McKinsey and Bain practice integration all the time since this is the forte of the world's best consulting firms, and yet they haven’t attended a single class on Ergonomics or “Advanced Manufacturing Systems”.

I agree, though, that this comparison is imperfect. If you're happy with what you're doing, it doesn't really matter who's ahead or below you.

Oscar01,

Good luck with your law studies. May you be the next Pong Ponferrada.

[Gangreen]

Originally posted by Greener_Pasture
Yes, it's true. DLSU has once again showed it's supremacy in this field. Congratulations!


Speaking of Competitions since you brought it up.....

Statistics

"......The string of victories started with “Stat-is-eeks”, an annual quiz on statistics organized by the UP Statistical Society. Ateneo won over two other UP Diliman teams in the race for the top three places in 2000......."

"Ateneo Tops Annual Statistics Meet"

On September 15, 2001, the Ateneo once again proved its supremacy in statistics. The Ateneo duplicated its winning feat last year by winning the top prize for the annual competition Stat-Is-Eeks. Organized by the UP Statistical Society, the event’s elimination round was held at the UP School of Statistics, immediately followed by the final round at the New Era College. Under the guidance of Mr. Bernard Chan of the Math Department, Ateneo’s Team A composed of Patrick Lim, Jamie Li Han, and Sam Lim, all ME juniors, won the top place, while under the guidance of Ms. Loreli Santos, also of the Math Department, Ateneo’s Team B composed of Melvin Uy, Rhyan Uy, and Francisco Isidro got the 2nd place. Third place was the team from UP Diliman...."


Operations Research

"The Ateneo won the 2001 ORSP National Quiz Contest organized by the Operations Research Society of the Philippines. The Ateneo team’s lead in this contest was commanding, with 100 points ahead of the second placer (UP Los Banos), while the second placer was only 20 points ahead of the third placer (DLSU). Operations research is an area of management science which forms the core of the major subjects of students in the BS Management Engineering program."

FYI.

Good luck with your endeavors in I.E.:D

[Sprakatumski]

Originally posted by Exterminator
We can spend all day arguing which one is better, I.E. or M.E., but we will never reach a universally acceptable conclusion.

Why?

- Because I.E. and M.E. are different courses as people above have argued.

- It's very difficult to make a valid comparison based on course descriptions. What is on paper may not correspond to reality. A description can be long, detailed and elaborate but it may not amount to anything if the execution is flawed (eg if the school offering the course has unqualified teachers or marginal students).

- Let's face it. Schools have different standards. One cannot say that I.E. in DLSU is exactly the same as I.E. in U.P., Adamson University, or MIT. Comparing I.E. to Ateneo's M.E. is further compounded by the fact that these are two different courses offered by two different schools. Definitely apples to oranges.

- We can never resolved what's better unless we can agree on an objective definition of "better." Further, we have to agree on accurate, quantitative measures of what constitute "better." We know we'll never resolve this.

Conclusion: There's no point in arguing which one is better. This will never be resolved. However, a good, albeit imperfect, proxy for "better" is a comparison of the graduates' status and achievements. Where are they then and now? And based on the cursory discussion(s) above, one can make up his/her own conclusion(s).

Based on the definitions and descriptions about the two courses made by previous posts, napansin ko lang na parang napag-iwanan na ng Industrial Engineering ang Management Engineering. Napaka-klaro kung gaano kabigat at kalawak ang saklaw ng IE. In my opinion, "course definition and description" is one acceptable guage to know what course is better because it shows the scope and limitations as well as the advantages and disadvantages of your chosen course. Samantala, ang "course curriculum" naman ay ang nagsisilbing "blueprint" na pagbabasihan kung gaano ka-intensive o extensive ang matututunan ng isang estudyante mula sa kurso.

Sa criteria ng "difficulty", lumalabas na mas mahirap ang IE sapagkat sumasaklaw pa ito sa iba't-ibang engineering subjects. Alam naman nating lahat kung gaano kahirap ang engineering sapagkat hitik ito sa maraming Math subjects. Maaari ring gawing basehan ang "difficulty" sapagkat may direktang relasyon ito sa pagiging competitive ng mga estudyante.

Sa criteria naman na "eskwelang pinanggalingan", sa aking palagay ay pantay-pantay na iyan basta nabibilang ka sa "big 3 schools". Talu-talo na lang iyan depende sa grado, personalidad, at pananaw sa buhay. Acceptable criteria din ang "eskwelahang pinanggalingan" sapagkat may direktang relasyon ito sa kalidad ng edukasyon na matatanggap ng isang mag-aaral.

"Estado ng graduates" -- maaari bang gawing basehan o criteria ito? Maaari nating tanggapin itong criteria provided that it represents and reflects the status of the whole population of graduates. Subalit ang isang listahan na naglalaman ng sabihin natin dalawampung (20) kapita-pitagan at katangi-tanging mga graduates, ay mawawalan ng saysay at silbi, kung di naman ito nakakaya at nagagawa ng libu-libong pang ibang graduates.

KONKLUSYON:
Nariyan na at nakalapat ang mga criteria, kayo na ang bahalang humusga sa IE at ME base sa inyong mga sariling opinyon at persepsyon.
Di ko sinasabing iyan lamang ang nag-e-exist na mga criteria, maaaring marami pang iba.
Ang punto ay mayroong pagbabasehan ng comparison para sa dalawang kursong ito.
Huwag nating ilimita ang ating kaalaman at pagunawa at sabihin na lamang na di pwedeng magkumpara. Para lamang ito sa mga wala nang masabi at sarado ang kaisipan.
Sa isang banda, natural na pagkumparahin ang mga iba't-ibang kurso, hindi lang IE versus ME, maaaring MIS at IT din, o iba pa. Sapagakat dito tayo maliliwanagan kung anong kurso ang mas maganda at kung anong kurso ang nalalapat sa ating mga nais at pangangailangan.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Sprakatumski



"Estado ng graduates" -- maaari bang gawing basehan o criteria ito? Maaari nating tanggapin itong criteria provided that it represents and reflects the status of the whole population of graduates. Subalit ang isang listahan na naglalaman ng sabihin natin dalawampung (20) kapita-pitagan at katangi-tanging mga graduates, ay mawawalan ng saysay at silbi, kung di naman ito nakakaya at nagagawa ng libu-libong pang ibang graduates.

KONKLUSYON:
Nariyan na at nakalapat ang mga criteria, kayo na ang bahalang humusga sa IE at ME base sa inyong mga sariling opinyon at persepsyon.
Di ko sinasabing iyan lamang ang nag-e-exist na mga criteria, maaaring marami pang iba.
Ang punto ay mayroong pagbabasehan ng comparison para sa dalawang kursong ito.
Huwag nating ilimita ang ating kaalaman at pagunawa at sabihin na lamang na di pwedeng magkumpara. Para lamang ito sa mga wala nang masabi at sarado ang kaisipan.

Sa isang banda, natural na pagkumparahin ang mga iba't-ibang kurso, hindi lang IE versus ME, maaaring MIS at IT din, o iba pa. Sapagakat dito tayo maliliwanagan kung anong kurso ang mas maganda at kung anong kurso ang nalalapat sa ating mga nais at pangangailangan.

The problem with plain definitions is that some people think the institutions that concocted them are just trying to present some dressed-up program. Some people say “Management Engineering” is just some fancy-sounding name. Some say the IE monicker “Integration Engineering” is all an attempt to sound sophisticated. So it’s only fair to give both programs the benefit of the doubt as far as definitions are concerned.

Now when we speak of the performance of the programs’ graduates, that’s something else because you can’t doubt results. Among ME grads, the level of success achieved by the people referred to above is more of the norm rather than the exception. Why should this be used as a measurement of a program's success? Because the success of the alumni is a reflection of the real-world effectiveness of the course. That is, it tells us if the course has achieved its overall objectives for its graduates. For ME, I always believed that the program was created to produce leaders in their chosen fields.

But if you want to look at how ME and IE students compare with each other in the concentrations that they take in common , then here:

Originally posted by Gangreen


Speaking of Competitions since you brought it up.....

Statistics

"......The string of victories started with “Stat-is-eeks”, an annual quiz on statistics organized by the UP Statistical Society. Ateneo won over two other UP Diliman teams in the race for the top three places in 2000......."

"Ateneo Tops Annual Statistics Meet"

On September 15, 2001, the Ateneo once again proved its supremacy in statistics. The Ateneo duplicated its winning feat last year by winning the top prize for the annual competition Stat-Is-Eeks. Organized by the UP Statistical Society, the event’s elimination round was held at the UP School of Statistics, immediately followed by the final round at the New Era College. Under the guidance of Mr. Bernard Chan of the Math Department, Ateneo’s Team A composed of Patrick Lim, Jamie Li Han, and Sam Lim, all ME juniors, won the top place, while under the guidance of Ms. Loreli Santos, also of the Math Department, Ateneo’s Team B composed of Melvin Uy, Rhyan Uy, and Francisco Isidro got the 2nd place. Third place was the team from UP Diliman...."


Operations Research

"The Ateneo won the 2001 ORSP National Quiz Contest organized by the Operations Research Society of the Philippines. The Ateneo team’s lead in this contest was commanding, with 100 points ahead of the second placer (UP Los Banos), while the second placer was only 20 points ahead of the third placer (DLSU). Operations research is an area of management science which forms the core of the major subjects of students in the BS Management Engineering program."

FYI.

.:D

As far as I recall, ME students have been winning these contests even when I was still a student. It looks like things haven't changed much.

[victory]

As an educator I've always wondered about whether it's "the course" that made the individual or the individual that made the course. The correct answer is probably "both statements have elements of the truth."

Is it the effectiveness of the M.E. or I.E. course per se that helped these sterling alumni succeed? Or would they have succeeded in any case because of their inherent capabilities and endowments (which includes 'family pedigree,' to which mac_bolan00 was wisely alluding) as individuals, whether they took M.E. or I.E. or for that matter, Psychology or Mathematics or I.S. or Humanities, etc.?

The answer is never clear-cut. But there is an inherent value to joining a competitive milieu and surrounding yourself with very smart, driven and influential classmates and peers -- and in my opinion, whether M.E. or I.E. as stand-alone programs are good or not, the fact that they attract some of the best people around is good enough reason to consider enrolling in them.

This does not mean that M.E. or I.E. have an exclusive right to the "best students" -- in the end, it's all up to the individual to use his or her degree, whether it is from Ateneo, UP, DLSU, UST, etc. -- or no degree at all from any College -- to achieve his or her objectives. I have great respect for graduates from all of these institutions, and I have even greater respect for those who did not graduate from any of these institutions, or from College for that matter, and still used their gifts and blessings to succeed in their own way.

After all, if it's "position in business" or "how far people have gone in industry with their College degrees" is the end criterion of the success of any program, well... I have yet to see an M.E. or an I.E. graduate hit the list of the "top ten richest people in the world" (the number one spot of which is held by a College dropout that founded a software company called Microsoft, and whose current net worth as of this writing is greater than the GDP of New Zealand), or the "top ten best CEOs in the world."

But then again, I probably don't know much about these things since I wasn't an M.E. or an I.E. student back in College... :)

[Oscar01]

You know... this thread has become completely pointless.

Victory: Bite your tongue. You're married to an ME/EcoH major. :p

[ebtg]

The only reason why Ateneo tops Stat-is-eeks is because UP Stat majors are not allowed to join.

[Sprakatumski]

Originally posted by rabbaddal


The problem with plain definitions is that some people think the institutions that concocted them are just trying to present some dressed-up program. Some people say “Management Engineering” is just some fancy-sounding name. Some say the IE monicker “Integration Engineering” is all an attempt to sound sophisticated. So it’s only fair to give both programs the benefit of the doubt as far as definitions are concerned.

Di po ako sumasang-ayon dito. Saan ba binabase ang program definition? Dalawa. Una, sa curriculum. Pinipakita ng curriculum "point-by-point" at detalyado kung ano ang maaaring matutunan ng estudyante. Kung di mo ito bibigyang pansin, maraming mawawala sayo at marami kang di malalaman. Pangalawa, nakabase ito sa "real-life industry situation" ng mga gradweyts. Ina-angkop ang program definition sa tunay na nangyayari at ginagawa ng mga gradweyts sa iba't-bang industriyang kinabibilangan nila. Dahil dito masasabi nating importante ang "course definition" sapagkat sumasalamin ito sa maaaring maging kinabukasan ng mga estudyanten sa nasabing kurso.

We cannot just dress-up a program, We cannot just make it sound good.
The Credentials of the program -- it's curriculum, scope, & diversity -- dresses itself up, gives "sound" to it, and speaks for itself.

Originally posted by rabbaddal
Now when we speak of the performance of the programs’ graduates, that’s something else because you can’t doubt results. Among ME grads, the level of success achieved by the people referred to above is more of the norm rather than the exception. Why should this be used as a measurement of a program's success? Because the success of the alumni is a reflection of the real-world effectiveness of the course.

Ala ey (batangenyo).. Kulang-kulang bente laang (20) ang nabanggit at pinag-mamalaking listahan ng mga gradweyts. Malinaw na di ito sumasalamin sa LIBU-LIBONG iba pa. Ay naku, inulit ko na naman. Tsaka, kung titignan ang mga apelyido ng mga nasabing tao (Araneta, Sy, etc..), di natin maitatago ang mayamang "pedigree" o pinanggalingang pamilya ng mga taong ito. Sila ang mga taong may kakayanan na makapag-paaral sa mga napaka-mamahaling unibersidad sa Estados Unidos gaya ng Harvard, Wharton at Kellog. Kung ating muling pagmamasdan, di lamang "solely" dahil sa Ateneo ME kaya't naabot nila ang mga kinalalagyan nila sa ngayon o ang pagiging "world-class" nila. Napakalaking papel ang taglay nilang Harvard, Kellog, at Wharton MBAs; na sa isang Ordinaryong estudyante ay napakahirap makamit lalo na't kung wala kang financial resources. Base din sa listahan, lumalabas na ang mga walang American MBA, ay di nakaabot sa World Class Standard. Let's get real, without their Expensive MBAs from Harvard, Wharton, and Kellog, they would never have reached that far with just an ME course. Well, it just makes sense.

[Sprakatumski]

Originally posted by rabbaddal

But if you want to look at how ME and IE students compare with each other in the concentrations that they take in common , then here:


Statistics

"......The string of victories started with “Stat-is-eeks”, an annual quiz on statistics organized by the UP Statistical Society. Ateneo won over two other UP Diliman teams in the race for the top three places in 2000......."

"Ateneo Tops Annual Statistics Meet"

On September 15, 2001, the Ateneo once again proved its supremacy in statistics. The Ateneo duplicated its winning feat last year by winning the top prize for the annual competition Stat-Is-Eeks. Organized by the UP Statistical Society, the event’s elimination round was held at the UP School of Statistics, immediately followed by the final round at the New Era College. Under the guidance of Mr. Bernard Chan of the Math Department, Ateneo’s Team A composed of Patrick Lim, Jamie Li Han, and Sam Lim, all ME juniors, won the top place, while under the guidance of Ms. Loreli Santos, also of the Math Department, Ateneo’s Team B composed of Melvin Uy, Rhyan Uy, and Francisco Isidro got the 2nd place. Third place was the team from UP Diliman...."


Operations Research

"The Ateneo won the 2001 ORSP National Quiz Contest organized by the Operations Research Society of the Philippines. The Ateneo team’s lead in this contest was commanding, with 100 points ahead of the second placer (UP Los Banos), while the second placer was only 20 points ahead of the third placer (DLSU). Operations research is an area of management science which forms the core of the major subjects of students in the BS Management Engineering program."


Sorry but there is a flaw in your analysis.

* ME won in the "Stat-is-eeks" quiz contest which was sponsored by the UP STATISTICAL Society. Unfortunately, UP IE students did not participate in the said event accdg. to my cousin who's taking up BS Stat at UP. And he said that majority of the schools joining the said contest are composed of Stat and Math majors.So how can you compare IE and ME on that ground???

Anyway, in the area of Operations Research, which is a common ground, ME is so pround of this Single achievement, the 2001 ORSP National Quiz Contest. Mind you, IE from UP and DLSU has been undoubtedly grabbing this award in many previous years. I've visited the DLSU IE Dept. through a friend teacher and i've seen that trophies, awards, and recognitions abound the said department.

And just recently, DLSU IE students topped all participating schools by grabbing 1ST PLACE in the 14th National Industrial Engineering Quiz Contest held at Subic sponsored by the Philippine Institute of Industrial Engineers. Ateneo ME students also contended in this event.

The range of topics covered by the contest included Probability and Statistics, Operations Research, Production Management, and Economics. (This is the BEST GROUND OF COMPARISON because all of the said subjects are common in both the IE and ME Core Curriculum)

[Oscar01]

Okay, that's it... this is really getting ridiculous.

Like... how many ME majors actually apply a lot of Operations Research in their chosen fields? Honestly.

I think I can ask the question. I went to the San Miguel Operations Research Department for my summer practicum, and that's one of the few specialized OR groups in the country. I was an analyst and worked on an actual nationwide scheduling application.

Aside from the obvious gratifying purpose of venting hot air, do you even have a goal for all this comparison? Like, are you planning a career for a graduating high school senior who knows what he wants to specialize in?

You've already admitted that you're comparing two courses that cover a broad range of topics and a "core" of quantitative courses. So first of all, it's pointless to compare either to a more focused Statistics or Finance or Marketing course, since neither aims to be that specialized.

Now, if you want to compare how well either trains a student for integration, I think you have a gray area there. By nature, you can arrive at a holistic understanding of the various management and related technical fields through a number of routes, never mind if you started from the management or the technical side.

You've established that:
1) Ateneo's ME is not an Engineering course
2) UP's IE is not a Management course
3) If you want to judge career success, you can't isolate undergraduate degree as the sole determinant
4) Both courses have produced many successful people

So, what exactly is the nitpicking about?

Who are genuinely interested in going back to posting old newspaper articles about which school won which contest in which year?

Are you that desperate to make both groups look stupid? :)

[piggy]

hey...we won the stat-is-eeks competition in 1998.....UP IE here...hehehhehehehehe...just wanted to say that...not that it matters

[piggy]

question lang po:

Does ME have what we call in UP and DLSU a feasibility study?

WHen you take a product that has not been made and you create a study on it, with the following sections:

1. Market Study
2. Technical Study
3. Socio-Political Study
4. Management/Organization STudy
5. Financial Study

Do they have that? HIndi ko alam eh...

anyway, I was just talking to a friend from DLSU who is now studying IE and we basically had the sam project studies...

1. Methods Engineering (Study on Processes)
2. Simulation (pero hanggang pro-model lang kami sa UP...poor lang kami)
3. Production/Operations Management (Managing capacity and headcount among others)
4. Information Systems study (Data Flow diagrams, databasing, etc.)
5. Supply CHain (End to End study of a manufacturing firms process)

And a whole lot of other project studies that take us from company to company and product to product....

does ME have that? QUestion lang po...dont kill me...:)

[Oscar01]

Originally posted by piggy Does ME have what we call in UP and DLSU a feasibility study?

WHen you take a product that has not been made and you create a study on it, with the following sections:

1. Market Study
2. Technical Study
3. Socio-Political Study
4. Management/Organization STudy
5. Financial Study
Yeah, it's called a marketing plan for Marketing class.

We also had projects in every major project, just like you described.

[Zardoz]

An interesting tidbit.....

There are currently six (6) Filipinos in the Harvard MBA program. Four of the six (67%) are from the Ateneo. Guess what their degree(s) were from the Ateneo? ...... Need I say more?:cool:

Guess how many are from DLSU?:(

[Greener_Pasture]

Originally posted by Oscar01

Yeah, it's called a marketing plan for Marketing class.



I took up two subjects: (1) INDUMAR or Marketing and (2) FEASTUD or Feasibility Study in IE.

The final project for INDUMAR was a Marketing Plan, whereas in FEASTUD, it was a Feasibility Study.

FYI, A Marketing Plan is different from a Feasibility Study. That's why the two fell under different subjects.

A marketing plan dwells more on the marketability of a conceptual product, ie. the 4 P's of Marketing. In feasibility study, it is more technical and comprehensive. It includes the technical, financial, market, management and socio-political aspect of the product.

Having made both a Marketing Plan and a Feasibility Study, I would say that the Feasibility Plan is far more difficult than the other. In IE, the marketing plan is being done individually, whereas, the feasibility study is done by group. It takes one whole semester just to complete one feasibility study. And it is very labor-intensive.

[Falcons]

Comparing different programs is an exercise in futility. You can go on and on and on and never come up with a conclusion. There's too much subjectivity involved.

The better program is whatever is better for the individual.

A school may offer nice-sounding technical degrees but if the students remain third-rate, so what? DLSU is at a disadvantage because of its reputation, whether true or not, as the dumping ground of UPCAT and ACET flunkies. Unless the students are really "world-class" to start with, there's not much one can do to change reality or even perception. Just my opinion.

Peace.

[ferrisb]

Originally posted by Greener_Pasture

A marketing plan dwells more on the marketability of a conceptual product, ie. the 4 P's of Marketing. In feasibility study, it is more technical and comprehensive. It includes the technical, financial, market, management and socio-political aspect of the product.


and a marketing plan doesn't?!! the problem is that 'marketing plan' (and feasibilty study) can be a catch-all term to define just about any plan. i've done marketing plans (both for school and work) that looked a lot like your feasibility study.

back to topic...can't compare the two. so can't tell which is better. next topic on the agenda....

[Oscar01]

No offense and not meaning to be off-topic but...

Why are you highlighting sentences as though they were quotes from the Bible or something? Look, this isn't the enumeration portion of a law exam...

Lighten up. :)

[ferrisb]

Originally posted by Oscar01
No offense and not meaning to be off-topic but...

Why are you highlighting sentences as though they were quotes from the Bible or something? Look, this isn't the enumeration portion of a law exam...

Lighten up. :)

that's the problem with communication on the internet. messages can easily be misread/misconstrued.

i highlighted the sentence because i wanted to allude to it in my post -- nothing more, nothing less. frankly, i don't know what the big deal is.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Oscar01
Okay, that's it... this is really getting ridiculous.

Like... how many ME majors actually apply a lot of Operations Research in their chosen fields? Honestly.

I think I can ask the question. I went to the San Miguel Operations Research Department for my summer practicum, and that's one of the few specialized OR groups in the country. I was an analyst and worked on an actual nationwide scheduling application.



Oscar,

I'll answer this part of your post just to add constructive value to this thread besides the usual "Which program is better?" exchanges.

A more appropriate question to ask would be - "How many ME majors actually apply a lot of the quantitative techniques that they learned in their chosen fields?" rather than "How many ME majors apply a lot of OR in their chosen fields?". ME quant is more than just OR.

The answer is - a significant number, or at least they eventually do. Those that have ventured into investment banking, for example, apply the tools that they learned in various real-life situations. I know this from two of my best friends and former ME classmates now working in investment banks here in NY (one of them a recent Wharton grad now working in JP-M and the other a current Columbia student about to start his internship in Lazard). They use regression analysis, for example, to anticipate the earnings of different stock issues. They use VAR to measure risk and return. They apply game theory in initial public offering (IPO) projects when they have to price the issued shares. Other quant techniques in finance are also used. But besides having the proficiency in using quantitative tools, they have to understand the "bigger picture" of their activities as well. When they do a valuation of a company, for example, they have to consider the effects of variuos corporate entities (marketing, finance, assets, production, IT systems, etc.) into their valuation. That's why they're often assigned to cover particular industries such as telecoms, technology, construction, etc., and they are expected to become experts in all aspects of that industry.

Those that ventured into management consulting (aka. McKinsey, Bain, BCG, etc.) also have to apply quantitative techniques, including OR, in their work, particularly because management consulting involves a lot of operations work. When they do merger and acquisition (M&A) engagements for companies that depend on distribution networks to sell (ex. the merger of HP and Compaq), they have to analyze and restructure the two networks of the separate entities into one that fits the consolidated entity. When they get retained (aka "hired") to do brand valuation, they have to come up with quantitative values for the brand (or portfolio of brands) by manipulating many variables such as reputation, quality, service, etc. Yes, they have to put numbers into those things. Because of the nature of their work, management consultants also have to look at the broad picture of the entire business - they have to fully understand the their clients' different components (ex. finance, marketing, production, etc.) and the effects of their recommendations not only on each component but also on the sinergies that exist between them. After all, an M&A project, for example, will certainly affect all of the clients' components, as will a corporate restructuring project, and so on.

Having quantitative skills alone is not enough to land a job in the industries above. Neither is it enough to have already covered these topics in class. What these firms also look for in potential recruits besides quantitative skills are qualities that cannot be taught in an OR class such as courage to face tough competition, excellent communication skills, judgement (espescially important for i-bankers and consultants who have to make assumptions), the ability to solve problems with limited information, etc. It's SOP for these firms to make applicants solve on-the-spot case problems, many of which are quantitative. The applicant's success will depend not on the correctness of his/her answer but rather how he/she arrives at his/her solutions. Adding to the burden is having to compete with top grads of other b-schools for openings in these firms. Some of the other applicants actually have consulting experience before coming to b-school.

Other than consulting and I-banking, ME majors also venture into internal strategy, corporate finance, equity research, venture capital, private equity, and other industries where both quantitative and qualitative skills are required.

Those who pass this battery of interviews, written exams, and case problems can look forward to a promising career in their chosen fields. I-bankers who eventually make it to the managing director (MD) level head teams that have global responsibilities (besides having a glamorous paycheck=)). The same is true for consultants who make it to partnership-level - and the really good ones get pirated by their clients to assume executive positions.

You may not observe this among your peers since you just graduated and started with law school. Eventually, after they complete their MBAs, you will see them go into these and similar fields.

I hope this partially answers your question.

[mac_bolan00]

Originally posted by ebtg
The only reason why Ateneo tops Stat-is-eeks is because UP Stat majors are not allowed to join.
ok, so the ateneo has proven its supremacy over non-stat majors. :lol:

[victory]

You may not observe this among your peers since you just graduated and started with law school. Eventually, after they complete their MBAs, you will see them go into these and similar fields.

rabbaddal, I don't mean to be contrarian, but after everything you wrote, you ended your last post with the statement above. So was it really "the intrinsic values of M.E. as a program" that helped out or was it the fact that M.E. students went on to gain meaningful work experience and do well in their MBAs and subsequent careers?

[ferrisb]

Originally posted by mac_bolan00

ok, so the ateneo has proven its supremacy over non-stat majors. :lol:

m.e. studes are also non-stat majors -- only 3 units of stat.

[mac_bolan00]

i'd be astounded if they were.

:rolleyes:

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by victory


rabbaddal, I don't mean to be contrarian, but after everything you wrote, you ended your last post with the statement above. So was it really "the intrinsic values of M.E. as a program" that helped out or was it the fact that M.E. students went on to gain meaningful work experience and do well in their MBAs and subsequent careers?

There is a synergy bet. the intrinsic values and the desire for a prosperous career. Both the motivation for career advancement and the love for challenge are incentives to study ME. In the case of GoBlue, he always said that he wanted to achieve the qualitative skills to balance his strong quant skills. For me, it was the reverse. What do we have to look forward to? "Meaningful and prosperous" careers/career paths where we can fully exercise the well-balanced skills that we developed through our ME education. This also includes the opportunity to use these skills to effect change and make a difference to those around you (aka. "global resopnsibilities").

The careers are part of actualizing and realizing these intrinsic values.

[Oscar01]

Originally posted by rabbaddal
Oscar,

I hope this partially answers your question.
Okay, you got me... that wasn't directed at you. :)

I just didn't feel it was a big point to highlight a comparison of OR courses. From what I saw in my batch, a lot of people are into non-quantitative fields, though a lot will eventually make intensive use of the quanti tools in Finance and Consulting.

But piece of advice... for all our sakes, don't get Victory started on MBAs here. :P

[mac_bolan00]

admu's ME is a five-year course, right?

[KuyaDanny]

Not anymore, mac_bolan00. The Class of 1979 was the last group who went through the five-year curriculum. It takes four years to complete the ME program now.

[rhee]

Originally posted by Falcons

The better program is whatever is better for the individual.


I wholeheartedly agree. :)

mac_bolan00, ME used to be a five-year course but now it's a four-year course. We're required to take classes during summer, though.

[mac_bolan00]

frankly, i don't how to begin defining "management science". most people confuse quantitative methods for MS. quanti comes closer to providing tools for decision science. still DS is nowhere near to what you'd call an engineering program. the same abuse of terms can be seen in finance (i.e., financial engineering)

[piggy]

i guess...if you ask me...it might not be question of I.E. vs. M.E. but rather of I.E./M.E. vs other engineering courses...

if you really like the hardcore technical stuff then I suggest you go for the EEE courses, but if you want to get a good job at once, then you should go for I.E./M.E.

Nowadays, there are so many really really good (and I mean really good) technical people and very few jobs that require you to have that level of technical skill.

But if you want to get a good job at once then I think I.E./M.E. is your best bet...both courses develop management skills that company's look for now...

[Oscar01]

Maybe, maybe not.

Some people believe that it's easier to train a technical person in Management than it is to train a Management person in the technical stuff. The funniest example would be Shell... I went to a 3-day hotel stay-in of theirs, and discovered that a number of their HR and Sales people are Engineering graduates.

And I think it counts for some companies. San Miguel gives the more technical promotion an instant promotion when they're hired, so they're one rank higher than their peers. For ME and IE, an Operations Research analyst is considered technical, but not an "ordinary" Finance guy.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Oscar01
Maybe, maybe not.

Some people believe that it's easier to train a technical person in Management than it is to train a Management person in the technical stuff. The funniest example would be Shell... I went to a 3-day hotel stay-in of theirs, and discovered that a number of their HR and Sales people are Engineering graduates.

And I think it counts for some companies. San Miguel gives the more technical promotion an instant promotion when they're hired, so they're one rank higher than their peers. For ME and IE, an Operations Research analyst is considered technical, but not an "ordinary" Finance guy.

You have to look at it from different angles such as:

(1) Does the company put a premium on technical skills? If so, in what form? Higher pay? Higher rank within the overall corporate organization (and not just the technical organization)?

(2) Why do engineers occupy non-engineering posts?

For (1), most companies do pay a premium for technical people in the form of higher salaries for a comparative rank. This is because technical skills are scarce and the person is expected to perform a specific task(s). Some people aren't even hired, but rather contracted until their projects are completed. As far as assuming a higher rank within the corporate organization is concerned, it depends on the company. In the case of San Miguel, I'm not sure how many of their senior corporate management came from technology, although former president Eizmendi started his career as a technical employee. Non-technical people who perform well, such as sales people who exceed their quotas year after year, may also have just as much chance to assume a senior position as long as they demonstrate leadership skills and an ability to work under different conditions. Some companies such as Boeing, Airbus, and GE require that their senior executives come from the engineering subsidiaries, and they have to be engineers.

In the case of (2), it's possible that engineers now working in non-engineering jobs such as HR or sales finally realized that they don't want to do engineering anymore, or the company could be circulating them across different departments to train them for positions in general management. This way, they will get to experience a broader view of the company. This is method was pioneered by GE and has since been adopted by other global companies.

I don't agree, though, that finance people are "ordinary". Its actually their not being ordinary that gives them a disadvantage. In most industrial companies, finance is considered a back-door operation, thereby limiting finance employees to specific part of the organization. There's even a joke in industrial organizations that defines the real meaning of CFO as - "Career Finished and Over"=) As a rule of thumb, someone intested in a finance-related career should always take a job where his skills should put him in the frontline such as investment banking, private equity, equity research, and so on. Although these jobs require more than just finance and quant skills, they provide a finance professional a much better chance of being promoted to executive level.

Something to keep in mind is never turn down an assignment or promotion, even if it's outside your area of expertise. When given a chance, never say "But I'm the corporate lawyer! What do I know about sales?" One thing successful managers have in common is the willingness to work their outside comfort zones. This shows that they are capable of being trained for broader responsibilities within the organization.

[piggy]

and these technical people doing HR and Sales...are they using the skills they learned in college? or wouldnt they have been better off studying ME or IE?

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by piggy
and these technical people doing HR and Sales...are they using the skills they learned in college? or wouldnt they have been better off studying ME or IE?

We can't really say. Who knows? Maybe it was their experience in engineering that convinced them that is wasn't the field they wanted to be in. If they didn't study and work in an engineering field, they might not have found their true calling towards HR or Sales.

Or, like I said, it could be a deliberate move by the company to move them around all the departments, including the non-engineering departments, to train them for top management positions in the company later on. That way, the company improves its internal synergies since executives are familiar with whats going on in the other units. Also, for some companies where engineering is their core business such as GE, DuPont, Boeing, ABB, etc. , you really have to start out as an engineer before you can rise to top management. Shell, for example, has business units that are heavily into engineering (ex., exploration), and they would prefer someone with an engineering backgound to run it. But before an engineer can run a unit, he has to be exposed to all other aspects of the busness as well.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by piggy
and these technical people doing HR and Sales...are they using the skills they learned in college? or wouldnt they have been better off studying ME or IE?

We can't really say. Who knows? Maybe it was their experience in engineering that convinced them that is wasn't the field they wanted to be in. If they didn't study and work in an engineering field, they might not have found their true calling towards HR or Sales.

Or, like I said, it could be a deliberate move by the company to rotate them throughout all the departments, including the non-engineering departments, to train them for top management positions. That way, the company improves its internal synergies since executives are familiar with whats going on in the other business units. It also helps aspiring executives build their social capital - the network of professional relationships. Also, for some companies where engineering is their core business such as GE, DuPont, Boeing, ABB, etc. , you really have to start out as an engineer before you can rise to top management. Shell, for example, has business units that are heavily into engineering (ex., exploration), and they would prefer someone with an engineering backgound to run it. But before an engineer can run a unit, he has to be exposed to all other aspects of the busness as well.

[Sleepless6]

Originally posted by Zardoz
An interesting tidbit.....

There are currently six (6) Filipinos in the Harvard MBA program. Four of the six (67%) are from the Ateneo. Guess what their degree(s) were from the Ateneo? ...... Need I say more?:cool:

Guess how many are from DLSU?:(

Zardoz, you're right about there being six Filipinos in the Harvard MBA program. But only three are from Ateneo. Two are from UP, and there is one from DLSU. Not all the Ateneans are from ME...

[GreenTurds]

Originally posted by Sleepless6

Zardoz, you're right about there being six Filipinos in the Harvard MBA program. But only three are from Ateneo. Two are from UP, and there is one from DLSU. Not all the Ateneans are from ME...

The number of Filipino students in Harvard is correlated to the true ranking of these schools. The higher the number of students from a specific school, the higher the school's ranking. This is a better and more objective measure of academic standards. ;)

I think the trend is true for the other Ivy League schools as well as the top schools in the U.K. (Oxbridge). Ateneans almost always outnumber the others. :D

[Bluest]

Originally posted by GreenTurds

The number of Filipino students in Harvard is correlated to the true ranking of these schools. The higher the number of students from a specific school, the higher the school's ranking. This is a better and more objective measure of academic standards. ;)

I think the trend is true for the other Ivy League schools as well as the top schools in the U.K. (Oxbridge). Ateneans almost always outnumber the others. :D

Very impressive, indeed!:cool:

[mac_bolan00]

really???? i thought the ability to "go" to harvard MBA had more to do with dear old dad's bank account and his kid's inability to tackle anything more challenging than MBA.

here's an alternative: from what philippine school do most of the fulbright hayes scholars graduate?

hint: starts with a 'U'.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by mac_bolan00
really???? i thought the ability to "go" to harvard MBA had more to do with dear old dad's bank account and his kid's inability to tackle anything more challenging than MBA.

hint: starts with a 'U'.

Not true. Competence and merit are the primary criteria for admission into an Ivy League MBA program. Money is no longer an issue because financing is readily available through student loans. It is this sort of financing - available in very easy terms, that has increased the level of competition to get into top b-schools. Every year, each of the top schools receives approx. 6000 applications from around the world for only 600 slots per school. These applicants normally have very impressive credentials - 700+ GMAT scores, undergraduate degrees from Ivy League schools, great work experience, and more. To get in, an applicant thus has to beat 10 other applicants who carry these credentials.

After graduating, MBAs have to fight it out for jobs in choice companies with other top-school MBAs. A Wharton grad applying to Goldman-Sachs, for example, has to compete with other grads of similar caliber from Harvard, Kellogg, Columbia, etc.

And even when one is hired, success within the company requires competing against other professionals of similar caliber from around the world. Professionals whoe reached the ranks of partner, MD, etc. had to compete for their ranks.

In every step of the way, they have to deliver world class performance. But then again, there may be more challenging things to be tackled.

[mac_bolan00]

thanks for the correction. now take mine: there's a lot more to academic excellence, especially if you want to drag your school's name along with it, than 'just' MBA in an IV league school.

[tyanak_me]

Kaya nga! Bat' puro mba sa abroad lang ang kayang ipag-malaki ng mga ilang tao dito? Akala siguro nila, nagiging dios ka kapag nag-aral sa harvard.

[rabbaddal]

It's true. In the broader, sense, an MBA from a top school is not the only manifestation of academic excellence. Neither are the solid GPAs (QPIs), the outstanding GMAT scores, the fact that the successful applicants have beaten scores of other outstanding applicants from around the world, that once inside, they continue to excel in and out of the b-school classroom and make a difference in the student community around them, that they have competed successfully for prime jobs, and that they have excelled in their competitive work environments to assume positions of global scope...and all the other things attached to the degree.

But the topic of this thread is to compare two business-oriented programs. So we need to use some measurable points of comparison. And because we are comparing business programs, the performance of a program's graduates in the field of business should be an important criteria of comparison. Why? Because a good business program will continuously produce good business graduates batch after batch.

I also don't recall anybody in this thread claiming to be God. I mean, the term "world class" refers only to this mortal world that we live in.

[Sleepless6]

What's the point of asking whether IE or ME is better???

[Sprakatumski]

Originally posted by Falcons
Comparing different programs is an exercise in futility. You can go on and on and on and never come up with a conclusion. There's too much subjectivity involved.

The better program is whatever is better for the individual.

A school may offer nice-sounding technical degrees but if the students remain third-rate, so what? DLSU is at a disadvantage because of its reputation, whether true or not, as the dumping ground of UPCAT and ACET flunkies. Unless the students are really "world-class" to start with, there's not much one can do to change reality or even perception. Just my opinion.

Peace.

"A school may offer nice-sounding technical degrees but if the students remain third-rate, so what?--Falcons" If you say that comparing different programs is an "exercise of futility", then, comparing IE and ME based on one's school affiliation as you explained is clearly an "exercise of narrow-mindedness". How can you explain the many successful graduates coming from Mapua and UST? I know a significant number of Mapua graduates very successful in business, government, and even in the corporate environment. If you have nothing essential to say regarding IE and ME, better have said none at all than resort to School Bashing.

Another point is that each school has its' own expertise. For example Ateneo (Law), UP (Medicine) and DLSU (Engineering). If we are comparing IE and ME, it would be difficult to make a good comparison based on school reputation alone because, as I said, schools have different experties and specialties.

Anyway, DLSU's reputation is 3rd class and a dumping ground of UPCAT and ACET flunkers??? This is apparently what some people say, mostly Ateneans. Why? Because they feel deep inside a sense of insecurity and "threat" brought about by such a great institution, which has produced many great & outstanding Achievers in the different fields of human endeavor: government, business, the corporate environment, sports, etc.

This insecurity and "threat", in my view, has become more pronounced and enraged because De La Salle University topped Ateneo in the most recent Asiaweek Survey, a measure of academic excellence and international school reputation. When La Salle was behind in the said survey, no words were heard from Lasallians. But now that Ateneo is behind, different reactions and comments are being said, to the point that "sour-graping" is becoming evident. Another thing which struck Ateneo is the painful defeat of the Blue Eagles at the hands of the 4-Peat Champs De La Salle Green Archers in UAAP Basketball, a sport so much embedded in Philippine Culture, ... and a considerable measure of extra-curricular school prowess.

"Religio, Mores et Cultura" or in layman's term: "wholistic" development. This is the emphasized feature of a De La Salle education, compared to UP's "Iskolar ng Bayan" and Ateneo's "Man for others" thing. Apparently, DLSU excels in the two worlds of Academics and Extra-curricular pursuits. For me, a school's rate (1st rate, 2nd rate, or third rate) should not solely be based on intellect and mental superiority. Because besides IQ, remember that people also have EQ.

Anyway, DLSU: a dumping ground of UPCAT and ACET flunkies??? This is one great misconception. Explanation: "Student Population". DLSU's population is approximately 10,000, doubling the population of Ateneo which is close to 5,000, and also significantly higher than that of UP's. This unobserved fact and reality gives DLSU the capability to accept more students, to the point of accepting some students who are just the average level. Given let's say 10,000 available slots in La Salle, 5,000 slots will be surely secured by the best and the brightest in the country getting their favored courses (mostly the tough courses like Engineering, Accounting, etc.). The remaining "excess" slots will be availed of by other aspiring students as well as some people who have no definite colleges yet, but they have to settle with the "not-so-tough" degrees. Knowing that La Salle has a great variety of courses to choose from, these people has a lot of "not-so-tough" courses to select from like Sports Management, Education, etc. This is the real reason why La Salle somehow has that reputation. But the point is: "we should not generalize".

Slightly off-topic: Why does Ateneo always include UP whenever they bash other schools? For example, "DLSU is at a disadvantage because of its reputation, whether true or not, as the dumping ground of UPCAT and ACET flunkies". Why? Because they use the institution of UP as a form of a "security blanket". This fact is very noticeable in the many posts of Ateneans here at PEX. Can't they stand alone when they bash other schools? It doesn't mean that because they are neighbors in QC, the two are almost of the same level or stature?! Anyway, I read a joke posted here at PEX regarding the meaning of the initials of schools:

If DLSU means Di Lumusot Sa UP

Guess what's for ADMU?

Another Di Makalusot sa UP

This is another revelation of reality made possible through an "honest joke". Unfortunately for DLSU, they are not that close to UP so they can't use this institution as a "Security Blanket". Unlike Ateneo who uses the "blanket" whenever the need arises.


"Unless the students are really "world-class" to start with, there's not much one can do to change reality or even perception. --Falcon"

Besides being "World Class", De La Salle education is Globally Recognized. Maybe we don't see this angle because majority of us are too concentrated on the Philippine setting. But in terms of the global arena, La Salle is very prominent and known as an institution which offers an excellent & quality "world class" education. Founded by St. La Salle, saint of all teachers, Lasallian education has penetrated and conceived itself in the major continents across the seas.

Originally posted by Zoltrix:

The following list of Lasallian schools illustrates the vastness and the network of LASALLIAN EDUCATION around the globe.

NORTH AMERICA

LaSalle University (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA)
De La Salle College Oaklands (Toronto, Canada)
De La Salle Institute (Chicago, Illinois, USA)
De La Salle High School (Concord, CA, USA)
De La Salle High School (Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA)
De La Salle High School (New Orleans, Lousiana, USA)
La Salle College High School (Wyndmoor, Pennsylvania, USA)
La Salle College Preparatory (Milwaukie, Oregon, USA)
La Salle High School (Pasadena, California, USA)
La Salle High School (Union Gap, Washington)
La Salle Academy (Providence , RI)
LaSalle High School (Cincinatti , OH)
De La Salle North Catholic High School (Portland , Oregon)
La Salle High School of Yakima (Union Gap , WA)
De La Salle Academy (New York, New York )
De La Salle Collegiate Institute (Warren, Michigan)
La Salle Academy (New York City, New York)
La Salle Center (Menasha, Wisconsin)
La Salle Center (Oakdale, New York)


SOUTH AMERICA

Centro Educacional La Salle, (Brasilia, Brazil)
Centro Educacional La Salle (Canoas, Brasil)
Collegio De La Salle (Santafe de Bogota)
Colegio Guadiana La Salle (Durango, Mexico)
Collegio José de Escandón La Salle (Cuidad Victoria, México)
Corporación Universitaria Lasallista (Medellin, Colombia)
Instituto La Salle (San Martin - Buenos Aires - Argentina)
La Salle (Manaus, Brasil)
La Salle College (Lima, Peru)
Universidad De La Salle (San José, Costa Rica)
Universidad La Salle (México, México)
Universidad La Salle (Santafe de Bogota, Colombia)
Universidad La Salle Cuernavaca (Cuernavaca, México)
Centro La Salle (Tijuana, New Mexico)
Colegio de La Salle (Buenos Aires)
Colegio Dominicano De La Salle (Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic)
Colegio La Salle (Cusco, Peru)
Universidad de La Salle of Santafé (Bogota, Colombia)


EUROPE

Colegio La Salle (Alcoy, Alicante, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Almeria, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Benicarló, Castellón, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Paterna, Valencia, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Teruel, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Trinidad, Bolivia)
Colegio La Salle Bonanova (Barcelona, Espana)
Colegio La Salle Buen Pastor (Jerez de la Frontera, Espana)
Colegio La Salle Gràcia (Catalunya, Espana)
Colégio La Salle Sao Joao (Porto Alegre, Brasil)
Colegio La Salle - Vina (Cadiz, Espana)
Colegio San Juan Bautista de La Salle (Valladolid, Espana)
Collège de La Salle (Thessaloniki, Grèce)
De La Salle School (Essex, England)
De La Salle School (Liverpool, England)
De La Salle School (St. Helens, England)
De La Salle - Schule (Strebersdorf, Wien)
Ensemble Scolaire "Institution de La Salle" (Metz, France)
Escuela Profesional La Salle (Paterna, Valencia, Espana)
Istituto De La Salle (Parma, Italia)
Istituto La Salle (Torino, Italia)
La Salle (Catalunya, Espana)
La Salle Catalunya (Catalunya, Espana)
La Salle Grugliasco (Grugliasco, Italia)
Lycée De La Salle (Alès - collège, France)
Lycée De La Salle (Alès - secondaire supérieur, France)
Lycée De La Salle (Igny, France)
Ardscoil La Salle Dublin, Ireland
Enginyeria La Salle - Universitat Ramon Llul (Barcelona, Spain)


AUSTRALIA

De La Salle College (Malvern, Melbourne, Australia)
La Salle College (Midland, Western Australia)
LaSalle Catholic College (Bankstown, New South Wales)
De La Salle College (Cronulla, New South Wales, Australia)


ASIA

De La Salle University-Manila (Manila, Philippines)
DLSU System Schools (Philippines)
De La Salle Secondary School (New Territories, Hong Kong)
La Salle College (Kowloon, Hong Kong)
La Salle Secondary School Petaling Jaya, Malaysia
La Salle Secondary School Sabah, Malaysia
La Salle Secondary School of Kota Kinabalu


PS. The list goes on. This list only took into account Lasallian schools with the name "La Salle" embedded on it. But if we are to include all, our eyes will just get tired browsing through all of it.




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Some realities remain unseen but it doesn't mean they don't exist."

[Oscar01]

Hmmm... first piece I've seen here where the punch line is longer than the joke.

[Gangreen]

For a school that mass-produces graduates and is allegedly world-class, it's surprising to see the scarce representation of the Lasallians in the top schools in the USA and the U.K. Ateneans, despite Ateneo's exclusivity and small student population, almost always outnumber Lasallians in the Ivy League schools in the USA as well as in Oxbridge. Why is that? ;)

Anyway, let's go back to the topic, which is better, I.E. or M.E.? My answer - whatever suits the student and his/her personal goals.:)

By the way, I have been a Lasallian much longer than I've been an Atenean. I know there's a huge difference between the two schools in terms of academic standards. I noticed it the very first day I entered the Ateneo, met my classmates, and attended my first class. Correction..... I actually noticed the difference when I took the entrance exams in both schools. Then I reconfirmed the difference when I found out who from my school, LSGH, got accepted in Ateneo versus DLSU. The rest of the story is obvious.:D

[Oscar01]

Originally posted by Gangreen
By the way, I have been a Lasallian much longer than I've been an Atenean. I know there's a huge difference between the two schools in terms of academic standards. I noticed it the very first day I entered the Ateneo, met my classmates, and attended my first class. Correction..... I actually noticed the difference when I took the entrance exams in both schools. Then I reconfirmed the difference when I found out who from my school, LSGH, got accepted in Ateneo versus DLSU. The rest of the story is obvious.:D
...a difference in learning style, institutional values, or maybe even personalities?

[straightshooter]

Originally posted by Oscar01
Hmmm... first piece I've seen here where the punch line is longer than the joke.

You're a smart guy, Oscar01. I couldn't even identify which is which.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Oscar01
Hmmm... first piece I've seen here where the punch line is longer than the joke.

It would be nice to know how these La Salle schools compare with similar Jesuit-run institutions in the same area. For example, how do the La Salle schools in the U.S. East Coast compare in terms of reputation, stature, and quality of education and successful alumni with, lets say, Georgetown, Holy Cross, Fordham or Boston College - schools that have produced some of the most successful personalities in the U.S. like Bill Clinton, Geraldine Ferraro, Bill O'Reilly, Avery Dulles, Denzel Washington, William McDonough, Clarence Thomas, Bob Cousy, Maria Kennedy-Shriver, Anton Scalia, etc.? For those in the West Coast, how do they compare to Loyola, Sta. Clara, or U of SF? For those in East Asia, how do they compare to Sophia University - known as one of the "big four" universities in Japan along with Tokyo U, Waseda U, and Osaka U for which Japanese high school students work themselves to death just to get in?

But doing this would be digressing too much away from the main topic of this thread. Maybe someone can start another thread about this.

[BULLD0G_FAN]

Originally posted by Sprakatumski
Besides being "World Class", De La Salle education is Globally Recognized. Maybe we don't see this angle because majority of us are too concentrated on the Philippine setting. But in terms of the global arena, La Salle is very prominent and known as an institution which offers an excellent & quality "world class" education. Founded by St. La Salle, saint of all teachers, Lasallian education has penetrated and conceived itself in the major continents across the seas.



Pa world-class world-class ek ek ka pa. Sa Pinas pa lang, hindi nga makapasa ang DLSU. Read on.

____________________________________________________
136 schools ordered to phase out 155 courses
Publish Date: [Thursday, April 11, 2002]

The Commission on Higher Education (CHED) has ordered 136 colleges and universities nationwide to discard some of their courses because many graduates had flunked licensure tests.

Professional and Regulatory Commission records show only five percent of graduates at these schools passed examinations given by the commission between 1997 and 2001, said Roger Perez, CHED executive director.

He said the poor test results barred graduates from practicing in an array of fields, including accounting, architecture, chemistry, chemical engineering, civil engineering, Customs brokerage, forestry, mechanical engineering, medical technology, nutrition-dietetics, occupational and physical therapy, electrical engineering, and teaching.

The 136 schools, including 26 located in Metro Manila, were ordered to drop 155 programs gradually from the start of the new school year in June, Perez said.

The 26 Metro schools include the Technological Institute of the Philippines, University of the East, Sta. Rita College (Parañaque), Sienna College, AMA-Quezon City, Arellano University (Legarda and Pasig), Feati University and DE LA SALLE-College of St. Benilde. — Sheila Crisostomo

___________________________________________________

Akala ko ba one of the best ang La Salle sa Pinas?

Tama pa la ang sabi ng iba na may pagka-SLOW ang mga taga La Salle. Read above. More proof.

O baka naman itakwil na naman ng mga taga La Salle ang mga taga Benilde. Kesyo iba raw kuno kung may pagka-bano. Pero kung magaling, iisa lang raw sila. United we stand when we win, divided we fall when we get criticized for being diploma mills. Totoo pala na tambakan ng mga ebaks ang Taft.

Buti pa at mas magaling ang aking alma mater. At least, hindi kami blacklisted na bulok. May pagkabulok nga ang facilities namin, pero mas bulok ang kokote ng mga Lasalyano. Read the above again for the nth time kung slow talaga kayo. Mwehehehehehhe .

Pa world-class world-class pa kuno. Buking na buking na hinding hindi. Read the above for the nth kilikili power time kung ssslllllllloooowwwwwwww ka talaga. :evil_lol:

Basta NU FIGHT pa rin!!!

[Oscar01]

Originally posted by straightshooter
You're a smart guy, Oscar01. I couldn't even identify which is which.
You better believe I'm smart... I didn't read it and still managed to say something witty...

[Sprakatumski]

Originally posted by BULLD0G_FAN



Pa world-class world-class ek ek ka pa. Sa Pinas pa lang, hindi nga makapasa ang DLSU. Read on.

____________________________________________________
136 schools ordered to phase out 155 courses
Publish Date: [Thursday, April 11, 2002]

The Commission on Higher Education (CHED) has ordered 136 colleges and universities nationwide to discard some of their courses because many graduates had flunked licensure tests.

Professional and Regulatory Commission records show only five percent of graduates at these schools passed examinations given by the commission between 1997 and 2001, said Roger Perez, CHED executive director.

He said the poor test results barred graduates from practicing in an array of fields, including accounting, architecture, chemistry, chemical engineering, civil engineering, Customs brokerage, forestry, mechanical engineering, medical technology, nutrition-dietetics, occupational and physical therapy, electrical engineering, and teaching.

The 136 schools, including 26 located in Metro Manila, were ordered to drop 155 programs gradually from the start of the new school year in June, Perez said.

The 26 Metro schools include the Technological Institute of the Philippines, University of the East, Sta. Rita College (Parañaque), Sienna College, AMA-Quezon City, Arellano University (Legarda and Pasig), Feati University and DE LA SALLE-College of St. Benilde. — Sheila Crisostomo

___________________________________________________

Akala ko ba one of the best ang La Salle sa Pinas?

Tama pa la ang sabi ng iba na may pagka-SLOW ang mga taga La Salle. Read above. More proof.

O baka naman itakwil na naman ng mga taga La Salle ang mga taga Benilde. Kesyo iba raw kuno kung may pagka-bano. Pero kung magaling, iisa lang raw sila. United we stand when we win, divided we fall when we get criticized for being diploma mills. Totoo pala na tambakan ng mga ebaks ang Taft.

Buti pa at mas magaling ang aking alma mater. At least, hindi kami blacklisted na bulok. May pagkabulok nga ang facilities namin, pero mas bulok ang kokote ng mga Lasalyano. Read the above again for the nth time kung slow talaga kayo. Mwehehehehehhe .

Pa world-class world-class pa kuno. Buking na buking na hinding hindi. Read the above for the nth kilikili power time kung ssslllllllloooowwwwwwww ka talaga. :evil_lol:

Basta NU FIGHT pa rin!!!


Isa ka ngang BULLdog fan kasi BULLok ka mag-isip at makitid ang isip mo. Binaling mo ang usapan sa BENILDE kasi natatakot kang i-criticize ang De La Salle University-Manila, which is the real epitomy of Lasallian education. Tinatawag mo pang Lasalyano ang mga Taga-Benilde. Even if in reality, they recognize themselves as BENILDEANS. And it is common knowledge that Benilde is "Lasalle-Tafat", lipatan ng mga di-makayanan ang very rigorous atmosphere sa De La Salle. Yan ang hirap pag nagtatapang-tapangan pero maraming di alam. Banat nang banat, pero kulang at limitado ang nalalaman. Nanghuhusga sa maling paraan.

I pity you're attitude. Very uneducated and jologs na jologs. Kung inggit tayo sa isang prestihiyosong institusyon, it's very unethical to behave like that na parang nanginginig na sa inggit at pagka-asar.

Newei, if you want me to utter some jolog words so that you can understand better. Here:

Utot ang mga pinagsasabi mo.

If you think bulok ang mga kokote ng mga Lasalyano, EBAK ang laman ng skull mo.

"Read the above for the nth kilikili power time kung ssslllllllloooowwwwwwww ka talaga.--bulldog_fan". Spoken like a true-blooded JOLOGS.

Newei, i just hope that you're not another Atenean using an alter-nick coz it will support my claim that you guys are still "sour-graping" untill now because of the successive achievements and feats of the De La Salle University-Manila in both fields of Academics and Extra-curricular pursuits.

I also hope that no more JOLOGS guy will destroy or tarnish such a stumulating and educational discussion in this thread.

TY.
PEACE!

[Exterminator]

READ THE POST ABOVE.


The pot calling the kettle black.

[straightshooter]

Originally posted by Oscar01

You better believe I'm smart... I didn't read it and still managed to say something witty...

I'm impressed. I read it twice; and I all I could say the first time was, "Pray for us."; and the the second time, "Have mercy on us."

[Patjo]

Originally posted by Exterminator
READ THE POST ABOVE.


The pot calling the kettle black.

Exterminator, are you a gay Atenean?:) Wala lang...:)

Ang "arts" mo kasi magsalita, parang Bakla.:) Ang Macho pa naman ng nick mo. hehe. JOKE!:D

[BULLD0G_FAN]

Wag na tayong magbolahan. You be the honest judge. World class ba ang mga ito?

DLSU-Main (maraming slow at palaging pang-apat sa Pinas behind UP, Ateneo, UST; basketbol lang magaling)

DLSU-CSB (tambakan pero sometimes mas matalino pa kaysa Main)

DLSU-Dasma (dapat veterinary medicine na lang; tambakan ng mga hindi pasado sa UP, UST, UE, FEU, St. Luke)

DLSU-Gregorio Araneta (mga wannabe conyong magsasaka pero sa katunayan lang, tambakan ng mga jologs)

Blacklisted na nga ang DLSU according to the CHED.

With Araneta U, hindi na puwedeng magyabang ang mga Lasalista kasi sila na ang pinaka-jologs sa UAAP.

Yun truth lang po!

Walang panaginip at mga ilusyunado. Simply the facts.

Sa mga slloowwww....The answer - DLSU is no way world class. Baka third class, puwede pang paniwalaan. Walang istiran, mga pare at mare. Obvious naman na burokbok ang La Salle.
:cool:

[Oscar01]

The funny thing here is that you can actually change the thread topic to "Who will win the next UAAP?" and no one could tell the difference, at least not on this last page. :p

[piggy]

ano na nangyari sa thread na to??? tsk tsk tsk...

[elle_woods]

well it seems like some ppl get a kick out of bashing DLSU :hopeless:

yes its true that probably most ppl in DLSU did not pass the UPCAT and DLSU is just their second or third choice.. but then again , not in all cases.. i'll choose DLSU's CS program over UP's anyday.. i mean for God's sake.. my colleague who graduated frm UP plans to pursue grad studies , and it took him like a month just to get his transcript.. while in DLSU you can get it the next day!

Sa mga slloowwww....The answer - DLSU is no way world class. Baka third class, puwede pang paniwalaan. Walang istiran, mga pare at mare. Obvious naman na burokbok ang La Salle.

this is like third class bull s_ _ _ ! Not all people are geniuses (academically speaking) but guys, check out your offices, your boss might turn out to be a Lasallian :naughty:

[Oscar01]

Originally posted by elle_woods
i mean for God's sake.. my colleague who graduated frm UP plans to pursue grad studies , and it took him like a month just to get his transcript.. while in DLSU you can get it the next day!
One month??? Wow!!!

That's FAST!

(Yes, it probably takes six in the Ateneo.)

[piggy]

wala na tong thread na to...

and I'm gonna get my transcript from UP within the week...after 2 months...hehehehe

[Invincible]

Back to the topic, "Industrial Engineering" versus "Management Engineering" --

If I want to pursue a career in production/operations or industrial management, I will pursue I.E.

If I want to end up in the manufacturing side of industry, I.E. is a better choice.

On the other hand, if I want a career in finance, O.R., consultancy, investment banking or general management, I'd rather pursue M.E.

Furthermore, if I want to go to a topnotch business school in the USA or Europe later on, I will most probably choose M.E. given its impressive track record.

The choice, I.E. versus M.E., depends on one's career objectives, among others. Aside from the decision on the course, one has to decide also on the school. For M.E., the choice is obvious - Ateneo. For I.E., I'll choose U.P. over DLSU.

[justInStix]

Originally posted by BULLD0G_FAN
Wag na tayong magbolahan. You be the honest judge. World class ba ang mga ito?

DLSU-Main (maraming slow at palaging pang-apat sa Pinas behind UP, Ateneo, UST; basketbol lang magaling)

DLSU-CSB (tambakan pero sometimes mas matalino pa kaysa Main)

DLSU-Dasma (dapat veterinary medicine na lang; tambakan ng mga hindi pasado sa UP, UST, UE, FEU, St. Luke)

DLSU-Gregorio Araneta (mga wannabe conyong magsasaka pero sa katunayan lang, tambakan ng mga jologs)

Blacklisted na nga ang DLSU according to the CHED.

With Araneta U, hindi na puwedeng magyabang ang mga Lasalista kasi sila na ang pinaka-jologs sa UAAP.

Yun truth lang po!

Walang panaginip at mga ilusyunado. Simply the facts.

Sa mga slloowwww....The answer - DLSU is no way world class. Baka third class, puwede pang paniwalaan. Walang istiran, mga pare at mare. Obvious naman na burokbok ang La Salle.
:cool:


hey..i think u do not know *** ur talking bout. it says DLSU-CSB.
CSB does not offer any engineering course. Don't you ever speak without having a full knowledge or at least any sensible idea about it. It seems that words coming out of your mouth are nothing but trash. Any etiquette?

Huever you are and watever skul you came from, just make sure you have sumthingto be proud of your skul especially yourself.

What an attitude...

:rolleyes:

[Oscar01]

Hmmm... maybe if we turn this thread back into a "traditional" one, we could at least agree to keep the text spelling out of it...

[BULLD0G_FAN]

Just because na may kapangalan ang skewl mo sa ibang parte ng mundo ay ibig sabihin world class. Internasyonal -- pwede pa. Pero - world class? Sino ang binobola mo?


Originally posted by Sprakatumski


The following list of Lasallian schools illustrates the vastness and the network of LASALLIAN EDUCATION around the globe.

NORTH AMERICA

LaSalle University (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA)
De La Salle College Oaklands (Toronto, Canada)
De La Salle Institute (Chicago, Illinois, USA)
De La Salle High School (Concord, CA, USA)
De La Salle High School (Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA)
De La Salle High School (New Orleans, Lousiana, USA)
La Salle College High School (Wyndmoor, Pennsylvania, USA)
La Salle College Preparatory (Milwaukie, Oregon, USA)
La Salle High School (Pasadena, California, USA)
La Salle High School (Union Gap, Washington)
La Salle Academy (Providence , RI)
LaSalle High School (Cincinatti , OH)
De La Salle North Catholic High School (Portland , Oregon)
La Salle High School of Yakima (Union Gap , WA)
De La Salle Academy (New York, New York )
De La Salle Collegiate Institute (Warren, Michigan)
La Salle Academy (New York City, New York)
La Salle Center (Menasha, Wisconsin)
La Salle Center (Oakdale, New York)


SOUTH AMERICA

Centro Educacional La Salle, (Brasilia, Brazil)
Centro Educacional La Salle (Canoas, Brasil)
Collegio De La Salle (Santafe de Bogota)
Colegio Guadiana La Salle (Durango, Mexico)
Collegio José de Escandón La Salle (Cuidad Victoria, México)
Corporación Universitaria Lasallista (Medellin, Colombia)
Instituto La Salle (San Martin - Buenos Aires - Argentina)
La Salle (Manaus, Brasil)
La Salle College (Lima, Peru)
Universidad De La Salle (San José, Costa Rica)
Universidad La Salle (México, México)
Universidad La Salle (Santafe de Bogota, Colombia)
Universidad La Salle Cuernavaca (Cuernavaca, México)
Centro La Salle (Tijuana, New Mexico)
Colegio de La Salle (Buenos Aires)
Colegio Dominicano De La Salle (Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic)
Colegio La Salle (Cusco, Peru)
Universidad de La Salle of Santafé (Bogota, Colombia)


EUROPE

Colegio La Salle (Alcoy, Alicante, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Almeria, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Benicarló, Castellón, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Paterna, Valencia, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Teruel, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Trinidad, Bolivia)
Colegio La Salle Bonanova (Barcelona, Espana)
Colegio La Salle Buen Pastor (Jerez de la Frontera, Espana)
Colegio La Salle Gràcia (Catalunya, Espana)
Colégio La Salle Sao Joao (Porto Alegre, Brasil)
Colegio La Salle - Vina (Cadiz, Espana)
Colegio San Juan Bautista de La Salle (Valladolid, Espana)
Collège de La Salle (Thessaloniki, Grèce)
De La Salle School (Essex, England)
De La Salle School (Liverpool, England)
De La Salle School (St. Helens, England)
De La Salle - Schule (Strebersdorf, Wien)
Ensemble Scolaire "Institution de La Salle" (Metz, France)
Escuela Profesional La Salle (Paterna, Valencia, Espana)
Istituto De La Salle (Parma, Italia)
Istituto La Salle (Torino, Italia)
La Salle (Catalunya, Espana)
La Salle Catalunya (Catalunya, Espana)
La Salle Grugliasco (Grugliasco, Italia)
Lycée De La Salle (Alès - collège, France)
Lycée De La Salle (Alès - secondaire supérieur, France)
Lycée De La Salle (Igny, France)
Ardscoil La Salle Dublin, Ireland
Enginyeria La Salle - Universitat Ramon Llul (Barcelona, Spain)


AUSTRALIA

De La Salle College (Malvern, Melbourne, Australia)
La Salle College (Midland, Western Australia)
LaSalle Catholic College (Bankstown, New South Wales)
De La Salle College (Cronulla, New South Wales, Australia)


ASIA

De La Salle University-Manila (Manila, Philippines)
DLSU System Schools (Philippines)
De La Salle Secondary School (New Territories, Hong Kong)
La Salle College (Kowloon, Hong Kong)
La Salle Secondary School Petaling Jaya, Malaysia
La Salle Secondary School Sabah, Malaysia
La Salle Secondary School of Kota Kinabalu


PS. The list goes on. This list only took into account Lasallian schools with the name "La Salle" embedded on it. But if we are to include all, our eyes will just get tired browsing through all of it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Some realities remain unseen but it doesn't mean they don't exist."

At huwag nating kalimutan na sa Pinas pa lang ay blacklisted na ang De La Salle. Basahin ang sumusunod:


Originally posted by BULLD0G_FAN
136 schools ordered to phase out 155 courses

Publish Date: [Thursday, April 11, 2002]

The Commission on Higher Education (CHED) has ordered 136 colleges and universities nationwide to discard some of their courses because many graduates had flunked licensure tests.

Professional and Regulatory Commission records show only five percent of graduates at these schools passed examinations given by the commission between 1997 and 2001, said Roger Perez, CHED executive director.

He said the poor test results barred graduates from practicing in an array of fields, including accounting, architecture, chemistry, chemical engineering, civil engineering, Customs brokerage, forestry, mechanical engineering, medical technology, nutrition-dietetics, occupational and physical therapy, electrical engineering, and teaching.

The 136 schools, including 26 located in Metro Manila, were ordered to drop 155 programs gradually from the start of the new school year in June, Perez said.

The 26 Metro schools include the Technological Institute of the Philippines, University of the East, Sta. Rita College (Parañaque), Sienna College, AMA-Quezon City, Arellano University (Legarda and Pasig), Feati University and De La Salle-College of St. Benilde. — Sheila Crisostomo



Wag ninyong itakwil ang sarili, pa world-class world-class ek ek pa daw, eh bakit palpak sa Pinas!

:D :D :D

[BULLD0G_FAN]

Just because na may kapangalan ang skewl mo sa ibang parte ng mundo ay ibig sabihin world class. Internasyonal -- pwede pa. Pero - world class? Sino ang binobola mo?


Originally posted by Sprakatumski


The following list of Lasallian schools illustrates the vastness and the network of LASALLIAN EDUCATION around the globe.

NORTH AMERICA

LaSalle University (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA)
De La Salle College Oaklands (Toronto, Canada)
De La Salle Institute (Chicago, Illinois, USA)
De La Salle High School (Concord, CA, USA)
De La Salle High School (Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA)
De La Salle High School (New Orleans, Lousiana, USA)
La Salle College High School (Wyndmoor, Pennsylvania, USA)
La Salle College Preparatory (Milwaukie, Oregon, USA)
La Salle High School (Pasadena, California, USA)
La Salle High School (Union Gap, Washington)
La Salle Academy (Providence , RI)
LaSalle High School (Cincinatti , OH)
De La Salle North Catholic High School (Portland , Oregon)
La Salle High School of Yakima (Union Gap , WA)
De La Salle Academy (New York, New York )
De La Salle Collegiate Institute (Warren, Michigan)
La Salle Academy (New York City, New York)
La Salle Center (Menasha, Wisconsin)
La Salle Center (Oakdale, New York)


SOUTH AMERICA

Centro Educacional La Salle, (Brasilia, Brazil)
Centro Educacional La Salle (Canoas, Brasil)
Collegio De La Salle (Santafe de Bogota)
Colegio Guadiana La Salle (Durango, Mexico)
Collegio José de Escandón La Salle (Cuidad Victoria, México)
Corporación Universitaria Lasallista (Medellin, Colombia)
Instituto La Salle (San Martin - Buenos Aires - Argentina)
La Salle (Manaus, Brasil)
La Salle College (Lima, Peru)
Universidad De La Salle (San José, Costa Rica)
Universidad La Salle (México, México)
Universidad La Salle (Santafe de Bogota, Colombia)
Universidad La Salle Cuernavaca (Cuernavaca, México)
Centro La Salle (Tijuana, New Mexico)
Colegio de La Salle (Buenos Aires)
Colegio Dominicano De La Salle (Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic)
Colegio La Salle (Cusco, Peru)
Universidad de La Salle of Santafé (Bogota, Colombia)


EUROPE

Colegio La Salle (Alcoy, Alicante, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Almeria, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Benicarló, Castellón, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Paterna, Valencia, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Teruel, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Trinidad, Bolivia)
Colegio La Salle Bonanova (Barcelona, Espana)
Colegio La Salle Buen Pastor (Jerez de la Frontera, Espana)
Colegio La Salle Gràcia (Catalunya, Espana)
Colégio La Salle Sao Joao (Porto Alegre, Brasil)
Colegio La Salle - Vina (Cadiz, Espana)
Colegio San Juan Bautista de La Salle (Valladolid, Espana)
Collège de La Salle (Thessaloniki, Grèce)
De La Salle School (Essex, England)
De La Salle School (Liverpool, England)
De La Salle School (St. Helens, England)
De La Salle - Schule (Strebersdorf, Wien)
Ensemble Scolaire "Institution de La Salle" (Metz, France)
Escuela Profesional La Salle (Paterna, Valencia, Espana)
Istituto De La Salle (Parma, Italia)
Istituto La Salle (Torino, Italia)
La Salle (Catalunya, Espana)
La Salle Catalunya (Catalunya, Espana)
La Salle Grugliasco (Grugliasco, Italia)
Lycée De La Salle (Alès - collège, France)
Lycée De La Salle (Alès - secondaire supérieur, France)
Lycée De La Salle (Igny, France)
Ardscoil La Salle Dublin, Ireland
Enginyeria La Salle - Universitat Ramon Llul (Barcelona, Spain)


AUSTRALIA

De La Salle College (Malvern, Melbourne, Australia)
La Salle College (Midland, Western Australia)
LaSalle Catholic College (Bankstown, New South Wales)
De La Salle College (Cronulla, New South Wales, Australia)


ASIA

De La Salle University-Manila (Manila, Philippines)
DLSU System Schools (Philippines)
De La Salle Secondary School (New Territories, Hong Kong)
La Salle College (Kowloon, Hong Kong)
La Salle Secondary School Petaling Jaya, Malaysia
La Salle Secondary School Sabah, Malaysia
La Salle Secondary School of Kota Kinabalu


PS. The list goes on. This list only took into account Lasallian schools with the name "La Salle" embedded on it. But if we are to include all, our eyes will just get tired browsing through all of it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Some realities remain unseen but it doesn't mean they don't exist."

At huwag nating kalimutan na sa Pinas pa lang ay blacklisted na ang De La Salle. Basahin ang sumusunod:


Originally posted by BULLD0G_FAN
136 schools ordered to phase out 155 courses

Publish Date: [Thursday, April 11, 2002]

The Commission on Higher Education (CHED) has ordered 136 colleges and universities nationwide to discard some of their courses because many graduates had flunked licensure tests.

Professional and Regulatory Commission records show only five percent of graduates at these schools passed examinations given by the commission between 1997 and 2001, said Roger Perez, CHED executive director.

He said the poor test results barred graduates from practicing in an array of fields, including accounting, architecture, chemistry, chemical engineering, civil engineering, Customs brokerage, forestry, mechanical engineering, medical technology, nutrition-dietetics, occupational and physical therapy, electrical engineering, and teaching.

The 136 schools, including 26 located in Metro Manila, were ordered to drop 155 programs gradually from the start of the new school year in June, Perez said.

The 26 Metro schools include the Technological Institute of the Philippines, University of the East, Sta. Rita College (Parañaque), Sienna College, AMA-Quezon City, Arellano University (Legarda and Pasig), Feati University and De La Salle-College of St. Benilde. — Sheila Crisostomo



Wag ninyong itakwil ang sarili, pa world-class world-class ek ek pa daw, eh bakit palpak sa Pinas!

:D :D :D

[BULLD0G_FAN]

Just because na may kapangalan ang skewl mo sa ibang parte ng mundo ay ibig sabihin world class. Internasyonal -- pwede pa. Pero - world class? Sino ang binobola mo?


Originally posted by Sprakatumski


The following list of Lasallian schools illustrates the vastness and the network of LASALLIAN EDUCATION around the globe.

NORTH AMERICA

LaSalle University (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA)
De La Salle College Oaklands (Toronto, Canada)
De La Salle Institute (Chicago, Illinois, USA)
De La Salle High School (Concord, CA, USA)
De La Salle High School (Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA)
De La Salle High School (New Orleans, Lousiana, USA)
La Salle College High School (Wyndmoor, Pennsylvania, USA)
La Salle College Preparatory (Milwaukie, Oregon, USA)
La Salle High School (Pasadena, California, USA)
La Salle High School (Union Gap, Washington)
La Salle Academy (Providence , RI)
LaSalle High School (Cincinatti , OH)
De La Salle North Catholic High School (Portland , Oregon)
La Salle High School of Yakima (Union Gap , WA)
De La Salle Academy (New York, New York )
De La Salle Collegiate Institute (Warren, Michigan)
La Salle Academy (New York City, New York)
La Salle Center (Menasha, Wisconsin)
La Salle Center (Oakdale, New York)


SOUTH AMERICA

Centro Educacional La Salle, (Brasilia, Brazil)
Centro Educacional La Salle (Canoas, Brasil)
Collegio De La Salle (Santafe de Bogota)
Colegio Guadiana La Salle (Durango, Mexico)
Collegio José de Escandón La Salle (Cuidad Victoria, México)
Corporación Universitaria Lasallista (Medellin, Colombia)
Instituto La Salle (San Martin - Buenos Aires - Argentina)
La Salle (Manaus, Brasil)
La Salle College (Lima, Peru)
Universidad De La Salle (San José, Costa Rica)
Universidad La Salle (México, México)
Universidad La Salle (Santafe de Bogota, Colombia)
Universidad La Salle Cuernavaca (Cuernavaca, México)
Centro La Salle (Tijuana, New Mexico)
Colegio de La Salle (Buenos Aires)
Colegio Dominicano De La Salle (Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic)
Colegio La Salle (Cusco, Peru)
Universidad de La Salle of Santafé (Bogota, Colombia)


EUROPE

Colegio La Salle (Alcoy, Alicante, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Almeria, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Benicarló, Castellón, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Paterna, Valencia, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Teruel, Espana)
Colegio La Salle (Trinidad, Bolivia)
Colegio La Salle Bonanova (Barcelona, Espana)
Colegio La Salle Buen Pastor (Jerez de la Frontera, Espana)
Colegio La Salle Gràcia (Catalunya, Espana)
Colégio La Salle Sao Joao (Porto Alegre, Brasil)
Colegio La Salle - Vina (Cadiz, Espana)
Colegio San Juan Bautista de La Salle (Valladolid, Espana)
Collège de La Salle (Thessaloniki, Grèce)
De La Salle School (Essex, England)
De La Salle School (Liverpool, England)
De La Salle School (St. Helens, England)
De La Salle - Schule (Strebersdorf, Wien)
Ensemble Scolaire "Institution de La Salle" (Metz, France)
Escuela Profesional La Salle (Paterna, Valencia, Espana)
Istituto De La Salle (Parma, Italia)
Istituto La Salle (Torino, Italia)
La Salle (Catalunya, Espana)
La Salle Catalunya (Catalunya, Espana)
La Salle Grugliasco (Grugliasco, Italia)
Lycée De La Salle (Alès - collège, France)
Lycée De La Salle (Alès - secondaire supérieur, France)
Lycée De La Salle (Igny, France)
Ardscoil La Salle Dublin, Ireland
Enginyeria La Salle - Universitat Ramon Llul (Barcelona, Spain)


AUSTRALIA

De La Salle College (Malvern, Melbourne, Australia)
La Salle College (Midland, Western Australia)
LaSalle Catholic College (Bankstown, New South Wales)
De La Salle College (Cronulla, New South Wales, Australia)


ASIA

De La Salle University-Manila (Manila, Philippines)
DLSU System Schools (Philippines)
De La Salle Secondary School (New Territories, Hong Kong)
La Salle College (Kowloon, Hong Kong)
La Salle Secondary School Petaling Jaya, Malaysia
La Salle Secondary School Sabah, Malaysia
La Salle Secondary School of Kota Kinabalu


PS. The list goes on. This list only took into account Lasallian schools with the name "La Salle" embedded on it. But if we are to include all, our eyes will just get tired browsing through all of it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Some realities remain unseen but it doesn't mean they don't exist."

At huwag nating kalimutan na sa Pinas pa lang ay blacklisted na ang De La Salle. Basahin ang sumusunod:


Originally posted by BULLD0G_FAN
136 schools ordered to phase out 155 courses

Publish Date: [Thursday, April 11, 2002]

The Commission on Higher Education (CHED) has ordered 136 colleges and universities nationwide to discard some of their courses because many graduates had flunked licensure tests.

Professional and Regulatory Commission records show only five percent of graduates at these schools passed examinations given by the commission between 1997 and 2001, said Roger Perez, CHED executive director.

He said the poor test results barred graduates from practicing in an array of fields, including accounting, architecture, chemistry, chemical engineering, civil engineering, Customs brokerage, forestry, mechanical engineering, medical technology, nutrition-dietetics, occupational and physical therapy, electrical engineering, and teaching.

The 136 schools, including 26 located in Metro Manila, were ordered to drop 155 programs gradually from the start of the new school year in June, Perez said.

The 26 Metro schools include the Technological Institute of the Philippines, University of the East, Sta. Rita College (Parañaque), Sienna College, AMA-Quezon City, Arellano University (Legarda and Pasig), Feati University and DE LA SALLE-College of St. Benilde. — Sheila Crisostomo



Wag ninyong itakwil ang sarili, pa world-class world-class ek ek pa daw, eh bakit palpak sa Pinas! Baka I.E. ang tinutukoy na course sa DLSU na sub-standard.

:D :D :D

[BULLD0G_FAN]

Masyadong excited ako kaya na-dobol post.

My apologies to the venerable people from UP and Ateneo.

Nilait ako ng isang impaktang "Sprakawatusing" (aka Patjo) na Lasalista, kaya nilalagay ko lang ang mga ito sa kanilang karapat-dapat na estasyon sa mundo. Sa pinaka-ilalim ng kadiliman.

Jologs daw ako, eh sila nga ang may DLSU-Gregorio Araneta University at DLSU-Dasma Medicine School na dapat talaga eh pang veterinary medicine.

I have nothing against farmers per se, but I am against wannabe elitistas na jologs at SLOW naman sa katotohanan.

As far as DLSU-Dasma, magpakatotohanan tayo. Kung kailangan mo ng brain surgery at nalaman mo na ang doktor mo ay nag-aral sa DLSU, ano ang gagawin mo? Ako? Magpapakamatay na lang ako siguro. Hindi ako pahahawak sa isang quack doctor. Pati aso ko, hindi ko pagagamot. Huwag na lang. Ipupulutan ko na lang, buti pa.

Buti nga at na-blacklisted ang La Salle by the CHED as one of the diploma mills in the country offering sub-standard courses. Baka kasali pa nga ang I.E. ng DLSU. Ewan natin. This only proves what we already know about this skewl. Iskul bukol.

[Sprakatumski]

It's USELESS to talk to you 'coz no level of Intellect or Diplomacy could make you stop from your wicked ways.

Let Divine Intervention take care of you.


>>>------------------------------------------------->>

Mathew 5: 11-12

11 "Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

>>>------------------------------------------------->>

[Oscar01]

(To Mac_bolan: Kindly resist the urge to respond with a witty atheist reply for now. I want to see the intended target/s actually flame this one. ;) )

[BULLD0G_FAN]

Originally posted by Sprakatumski
It's USELESS to talk to you 'coz no level of Intellect or Diplomacy could make you stop from your wicked ways.

Let Divine Intervention take care of you.

>>>------------------------------------------------->>

Mathew 5: 11-12

11 "Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

>>>------------------------------------------------->>

Anong ka-ekekan na naman ang pinagsasabi mo. Pati Diyos at relihiyon ay sinasama mo sa usapan.

May pa guilt-trip guilt-trip ka pa e ikaw ang nanglalait sa akin kesyo ebak ang aking utak.

Anyway, bahala na rin si Darna at si Powerpuff Girl sa iyo. Isama na rin natin si "The Force" at ang Power-rangers."

As I said before, I am just the humble bearer of the facts as stated "verbatim" sa newspaper -- na blacklisted ang De La Salle for sub-standard courses.

Malamang nga na kasama pati I.E. sa listahan. Malay natin.

Kayo kasi. Napakahilig niyong perahan ang mga estudyante maski burokbok ang standards.

Focus first on quality before expansion.

Ano nga ba ang tunay na mission ng La Salle. Mukhang saan saan na lang kayo napupunta. Ngayon, may Araneta U pa kayo.

Baka next time pati AMA at Ricky Reyes Beauty Institute pasukin din ninyo.

Josshhh Mehhh. For the love of money talaga.

Bahala na si Darna sa inyo.

[Oscar01]

Encore please. Pwede bang may pustahan ang next round?

[justInStix]

i'm an IE from DLSU and it's so difficult talaga especially the subjects that we're taking up now that we're only a sophomore really need a lot of analysis and critical thinking. It's so tough.
Anyway, I'd like to Congratulate the pool of students who made it in the Inter-University IE Quiz Bee..UP is a tough contender and they are also very good, but you still strived to make it on top.Job well done Archers!

Congrats too, Ie faculty for the support
Mr.Beng Hui
Mr.Dennis Cruz
Mr.Richard Li
Mr.Eric Ang Siy
Mr.Willy Salatar
Mr. Bryan Gobaco

and to the next BATCH, Jocelyn Tan, Wiko Kabiling, Kim Lee and to the rest who will make it to the pool goodluck.

We Achieve.
Animo La Salle.

[BULLD0G_FAN]

Originally posted by justInStix
i'm an IE from DLSU and it's so difficult talaga especially the subjects that we're taking up now that we're only a sophomore really need a lot of analysis and critical thinking. It's so tough.
Anyway, I'd like to Congratulate the pool of students who made it in the Inter-University IE Quiz Bee..UP is a tough contender and they are also very good, but you still strived to make it on top.Job well done Archers!



Question lang - bobo kasi ako eh sabi niyo.

Hindi ba kayo tinuturuan ng Ingles sa La Salle?

I.E. nga, kung baluktot din ang Ingles tulad ko. eh ano rin?

Jossh Mehh talaga.

Ang mga world class nga naman. Tsk tsk tsk :confused:

[Patjo]

Originally posted by BULLD0G_FAN


Question lang - bobo kasi ako eh sabi niyo.

Hindi ba kayo tinuturuan ng Ingles sa La Salle?

I.E. nga, kung baluktot din ang Ingles tulad ko. eh ano rin?

Jossh Mehh talaga.

Ang mga world class nga naman. Tsk tsk tsk :confused:


wooly bully,

I find nothing wrong with justInStix's grammar. It's very understandable. I even used a grammar correction software, and what he/she had written registered as Gramatically Correct.

I suggest that you don't dwell too much on very petty things/issues b'coz it has the tendency to narrow your outlook towards life. Concentrate more on important, constructive, and worthwhile undertakings so that there will be essence in your existence.

Just a friendly reminder.

[BULLD0G_FAN]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by justInStix
i'm an IE from DLSU and it's so difficult talaga especially the subjects that we're taking up now that we're only a sophomore really need a lot of analysis and critical thinking. It's so tough.
Anyway, I'd like to Congratulate the pool of students who made it in the Inter-University IE Quiz Bee..UP is a tough contender and they are also very good, but you still strived to make it on top.Job well done Archers!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Mga Bopols nga naman talaga. Mas lalo pa ibinuking ni pareng patjo.

"i'm an IE from DLSU and it's so difficult talaga especially the subjects that we're taking up now that we're only a sophomore really need a lot of analysis and critical thinking."

Korek ba ang "we're only a sophomore"?

Josssh Me nga talaga ang mga taga-La Salle. Kaya kayo na ba-blacklist e!

Baka ang ibig sabihin ay "we're only in sophomore year", o "we're only sophomore students"?

At ano pa 'to?

"UP is a tough contender and they are also very good, but you still strived to make it on top.

Napakaraming mali - mga present tense at past tense, pati na ang mga articles nag-labu-labo na.

Baka naman ang mas tama ay --

UP was a tough contender and they were also very good, but they still strived to make it on top.

Newei, hindi lang ako ang bobo tulad ng sabi niyo. Mas marami pa ngang Lasalista na mas bobo. Kung gusto niyo ng proof, read your own posts above.

No wonder nga talaga na blaclisted ang DLSU by the CHED.
Mahina ang mga kokote. Tama nga ang sabi ng mga iba riyan.
Medyo sllooowww talaga.

[Patjo]

Originally posted by BULLD0G_FAN
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by justInStix
i'm an IE from DLSU and it's so difficult talaga especially the subjects that we're taking up now that we're only a sophomore really need a lot of analysis and critical thinking. It's so tough.
Anyway, I'd like to Congratulate the pool of students who made it in the Inter-University IE Quiz Bee..UP is a tough contender and they are also very good, but you still strived to make it on top.Job well done Archers!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Mga Bopols nga naman talaga. Mas lalo pa ibinuking ni pareng patjo.

"i'm an IE from DLSU and it's so difficult talaga especially the subjects that we're taking up now that we're only a sophomore really need a lot of analysis and critical thinking."

Korek ba ang "we're only a sophomore"?

Josssh Me nga talaga ang mga taga-La Salle. Kaya kayo na ba-blacklist e!

Baka ang ibig sabihin ay "we're only in sophomore year", o "we're only sophomore students"?

At ano pa 'to?

"UP is a tough contender and they are also very good, but you still strived to make it on top.

Napakaraming mali - mga present tense at past tense, pati na ang mga articles nag-labu-labo na.

Baka naman ang mas tama ay --

UP was a tough contender and they were also very good, but they still strived to make it on top.

Newei, hindi lang ako ang bobo tulad ng sabi niyo. Mas marami pa ngang Lasalista na mas bobo. Kung gusto niyo ng proof, read your own posts above.

No wonder nga talaga na blaclisted ang DLSU by the CHED.
Mahina ang mga kokote. Tama nga ang sabi ng mga iba riyan.
Medyo sllooowww talaga.

"we're only a sophomore (block)"

He/she used "sophomore" to represent collectively a group or block of sophomore students, where she belongs. If it would be written more strictly, it would be: "we're only a sophomore block". It is quite obvious that justInStix is somehow informal in the way he/she wrote the statement. And it's ok since he's/she's not writing a business letter anyway.

"Anyway, I'd like to Congratulate the pool of students who made it in the Inter-University IE Quiz Bee..UP is a tough contender and they are also very good, but you still strived to make it on top.Job well done Archers!"

"UP is a tough contender and they are also very good". In essence, he/she used this line as a descriptive statement, so it is just ok and acceptable to use the present tense.

"...but you still strived to make it on top.Job well done Archers!" In this statement, "you" is referring to the De La Salle IE Team and apparently not to UP. Notice that the whole paragraph is an acclamation to the DLSU Team for making a job well done.

I hope that this somehow clears your clouded mind.


"I suggest that you don't dwell too much on very petty things/issues b'coz it has the tendency to narrow your outlook towards life. Concentrate more on important, constructive, and worthwhile undertakings so that there will be essence in your existence."

This was my advice to you before. And i warned you on the ill-effects of your lilliputian way of thinking. So, now you see how norrow-minded you've slowly become. Don't wait until the process becomes irreversible. Dont wait until you transcend from narrow-mindedness into inalienable virtual stupidity.

That's all my friend. You can bash us Lasallians untill your locus of feelings and intuitions still craves for it. But we will always be here to understand, to be rational, and to accept rather than pitty and reject a building-block of the hoi polloi of society like you.

[BULLD0G_FAN]

Ang galing mag pa-intellectual. Hoi-polloi ka rin!

Kung tama ang Ingles, bakit kailangan pa ng translator? Ano siya? Miss Venezuela sa Miss Universe Contest at kailangan pa ng interpreter?

Aber? That only means that he/she failed miserably in his/her mission to communicate effectively because of his/her garbled English or, more likely, intellectually-challenged capabilities.

Anong say mo? Pa-epek din ako 'no?

Bakit kasi hindi na lang i-mandarin or i-fookienese e? Maiintindihan ko rin. E pa-ingles ingles pa kasi, 'di naman taga Ateneo!

Wala ngang perfecto sa atin-atin, pero 'wag naman sana tayo maging masyadong imperfecto lalo na kung mahilig tayong mag pa-intellectual kuno.

And by the way, regarding the analogy between McDo and Lasal, tama pa rin ang aking katok-wiran. We're talking about kaledad. Maski na may pagkakaiba nga ang McDo sa Manila kaysa MacDo sa Cebu or McDo sa Hong Kong, bottom line, ang kaledad ng McDo ay consistently high.

E ang La Salle, may Main, may CSB, may Dasma, may Gregorio Araneta. Kung saan-saan na lang kayo pumapatol just to increase your revenue by expanding your market through segmentation and covering the whole range horizontally. (Pa-epek na naman moi.)

Walang quality control. Talagang classic case diploma mill kayo, kaya kayo na-blacklist ng CHED.

Yun lang.

Truth lang po and nothing but the truth.

[Patjo]

Originally posted by BULLD0G_FAN
Bakit kasi hindi na lang i-mandarin or i-fookienese e? Maiintindihan ko rin. E pa-ingles ingles pa kasi, 'di naman taga Ateneo!


Just as i've suspected even before. Parts and Parcels of your posts since the first one slowly resemble and reveal your true educational inclination.
I'M 99.99% SURE THAT YOU ARE A SOUR-GRAPING ATENEAN LOSER. Wag ka na mahiya. Aminin mo na kahit nakakahiya sa mga fellow Ateneans mo.

Oo nga noh? Who in this world would likely show a determined and energetic pursuit in bashing DE LA SALLE? Who else? Nonetheless, but ATENEO.

Anyway, tama na 'tong kabibigay ko ng atensyon sayo. Masyado ka nang sumasaya eh. Baka mag-orgasm ka pa nyan. Tsaka, baka mahatak mo na ako tuluy-tuloy into intellectual deterioration.

Basta good luck na lang to the Archrivals of De La Salle especially to BULLDOG_FAN!
Don't forget all of my advices to you. I hope to see you one day here at PEX, renewed and regenerated, posting worthwhile knowledge & information. Maybe that time you will no longer be known as bulldog_fan but a proud and mighty BLUE_EAGLE_FAN! Naks! ;)

[justInStix]

Just let this poor guy say anything he wants to say. I don't owe him any explanation about *** i've said. I know from the very star,t based on his posts here that i've read so far, that he undoubtedly must have come from the low-bred class.

i understand....

[BULLD0G_FAN]

Originally posted by Patjo

Just as i've suspected even before. Parts and Parcels of your posts since the first one slowly resemble and reveal your true educational inclination.
I'M 99.99% SURE THAT YOU ARE A SOUR-GRAPING ATENEAN LOSER. Wag ka na mahiya. Aminin mo na kahit nakakahiya sa mga fellow Ateneans mo.

Oo nga noh? Who in this world would likely show a determined and energetic pursuit in bashing DE LA SALLE? Who else? Nonetheless, but ATENEO.

Anyway, tama na 'tong kabibigay ko ng atensyon sayo. Masyado ka nang sumasaya eh. Baka mag-orgasm ka pa nyan. Tsaka, baka mahatak mo na ako tuluy-tuloy into intellectual deterioration.

Basta good luck na lang to the Archrivals of De La Salle especially to BULLDOG_FAN!
Don't forget all of my advices to you. I hope to see you one day here at PEX, renewed and regenerated, posting worthwhile knowledge & information. Maybe that time you will no longer be known as bulldog_fan but a proud and mighty BLUE_EAGLE_FAN! Naks! ;)

Kawawa naman si pareng patjo. Naghahanap ng kaaway. Pati mga Atenista dinadamay. Kumagat ka lang sa pa-epek ko kaya obvious na may mas bobo sa akin. Sinadya ko ang statement na "di naman kayo taga Ateneo" kasi alam ko na kakagat kayo. Mwewewehehehehehee.

Kung tutuusin, ikaw nga at si mareng "Sprakamatusi" ang nagsimula ng alitan natin kasi kayo ang naunang nanlait sa akin. Hindi ko lang kayo tinigilan sa paghihiganti.

Newei back to the topic of discussion. Ang analogy ng McDo at La Salle. Kindly address the following ----

And by the way, regarding the analogy between McDo and Lasal, tama pa rin ang aking katok-wiran. We're talking about kaledad. Maski na may pagkakaiba nga ang McDo sa Manila kaysa MacDo sa Cebu or McDo sa Hong Kong, bottom line, ang kaledad ng McDo ay consistently high.

E ang La Salle, may Main, may CSB, may Dasma, may Gregorio Araneta. Kung saan-saan na lang kayo pumapatol just to increase your revenue by expanding your market through segmentation and covering the whole range horizontally. (Pa-epek na naman moi.)

Walang quality control. Talagang classic case diploma mill kayo, kaya kayo na-blacklist ng CHED.

Yun lang.


Peace.

[Oscar01]

Bulldog_Fan: Mind if I ask what your major is? :p

[BULLD0G_FAN]

Originally posted by Oscar01
Bulldog_Fan: Mind if I ask what your major is? :p

My major is "Diplomatic Relations" and my minors are "Diploma Mills Detection Skills" and "Investigative Journalism." :D

[alikishi]

I dont know if it is a good idea to bring this thread up again. But, who cares anyway...

I just graduated with a degree in Management Engineering. Although I am really not that proud of the way me and my batchmates had gone through the course (because of bad teachers), I believe that the ME curicullum provides the best training ground for future managers and top executives. I cannot say this for IE since hindi ko pa naman na tatake ang IE sa UP or sa DLSU.

While I was reading this thread, I can't avoid but laugh at the funny things people post here. However, I also cannot avoid getting mad at other people's post

School bashing is normal in these kinds of thread. I have no problem with school bashing as long as you have the correct facts to accompany your statements

However, it seems that our friend Sprakatumski is really a true green lasallite ...

Quoting him:
"Anyway, in the area of Operations Research, which is a common ground, ME is so pround of this Single achievement, the 2001 ORSP National Quiz Contest. Mind you, IE from UP and DLSU has been undoubtedly grabbing this award in many previous years. I've visited the DLSU IE Dept. through a friend teacher and i've seen that trophies, awards, and recognitions abound the said department.

And just recently, DLSU IE students topped all participating schools by grabbing 1ST PLACE in the 14th National Industrial Engineering Quiz Contest held at Subic sponsored by the Philippine Institute of Industrial Engineers. Ateneo ME students also contended in this event."

As far as I am concerned, out of the 12 years ORSP is organizing the ORSP National Quiz Contest, Ateneo ME students had won 7 times. I am pretty sure that just recently, my batchmates won the ORSP Contest. Maybe those trophies you saw in the IE department were just 2nd or maybe third placers since according to the my friend (who is the trainer of the ME students), out of the 12 years ORSP sponsored the event, Ateneo won 7 times, UP won 4 times and La Salle won only once. Maybe you can call up ORSP for further details.

*side note* --> I think hindi na kami sasali next year kasi it has been a tradition na kapag nanalo ang isang school in three straight years, hindi na sila sasali next year tapos tutulong nalang sila sa pagorganize.

On your second point where you pointed out that Ateneo ME students joined in the 14th National Industrial Engineering Quiz Contest held at subic, I do not know if La Salle won the event, however I am pretty sure that ME students were not sent there. If Ateneo were to send representatives, I would have known dahil kabatch ko ang ipapadala. I don't care kung nanalo ang LaSalle, however maybe IF Ateneo would be represented there, iba na malamang ang kalalabasan ng event.

Ang kapal ng mukha mong sabihin na pinagyayabang namin ang sinasabi mong kaisa-isang panalo namin sa ORSP quiz shows. Tignan mo muna nang mabuti yung mga nakita mong trophies at baka magulat kang makita mo na puro 2nd and 3rd place ang nandun.

I'm sorry, but this is the truth. Im just stating facts here

[Oscar01]

Originally posted by alikishi
I dont know if it is a good idea to bring this thread up again. But, who cares anyway...

I just graduated with a degree in Management Engineering. Although I am really not that proud of the way me and my batchmates had gone through the course (because of bad teachers)...
It's not a good idea, but I'm sure you know that.

Which subjects did you get "bad" teachers? I can sympathize. Since ME has just one or two subjects in a certain field, you can really lose a lot if you have a teacher who handled that one or two poorly.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by alikishi

However, it seems that our friend Sprakatumski is really a true green lasallite ...

Quoting him:
"Anyway, in the area of Operations Research, which is a common ground, ME is so pround of this Single achievement, the 2001 ORSP National Quiz Contest. Mind you, IE from UP and DLSU has been undoubtedly grabbing this award in many previous years. I've visited the DLSU IE Dept. through a friend teacher and i've seen that trophies, awards, and recognitions abound the said department.

And just recently, DLSU IE students topped all participating schools by grabbing 1ST PLACE in the 14th National Industrial Engineering Quiz Contest held at Subic sponsored by the Philippine Institute of Industrial Engineers. Ateneo ME students also contended in this event."

As far as I am concerned, out of the 12 years ORSP is organizing the ORSP National Quiz Contest, Ateneo ME students had won 7 times. I am pretty sure that just recently, my batchmates won the ORSP Contest. Maybe those trophies you saw in the IE department were just 2nd or maybe third placers since according to the my friend (who is the trainer of the ME students), out of the 12 years ORSP sponsored the event, Ateneo won 7 times, UP won 4 times and La Salle won only once. Maybe you can call up ORSP for further details.

*side note* --> I think hindi na kami sasali next year kasi it has been a tradition na kapag nanalo ang isang school in three straight years, hindi na sila sasali next year tapos tutulong nalang sila sa pagorganize.

On your second point where you pointed out that Ateneo ME students joined in the 14th National Industrial Engineering Quiz Contest held at subic, I do not know if La Salle won the event, however I am pretty sure that ME students were not sent there. If Ateneo were to send representatives, I would have known dahil kabatch ko ang ipapadala. I don't care kung nanalo ang LaSalle, however maybe IF Ateneo would be represented there, iba na malamang ang kalalabasan ng event.

Ang kapal ng mukha mong sabihin na pinagyayabang namin ang sinasabi mong kaisa-isang panalo namin sa ORSP quiz shows. Tignan mo muna nang mabuti yung mga nakita mong trophies at baka magulat kang makita mo na puro 2nd and 3rd place ang nandun.

I'm sorry, but this is the truth. Im just stating facts here

Nothing to get mad about. People say all kinds of rubbish in these threads. Anyway, he qualified his statement by saying - "IE from UP and DLSU has been undoubtedly grabbing this award in many previous years...". Aka., if you add UP IE's OR quiz awards + DLSU IE's OR quiz awards, 4 + 1 = 5, then you'll certainly get a number more than 1 "in many previous years". And to some, 1 out of 12 doesn't look so bad if you lump it in with 4 others - give and take a few third place trophies.

Anyway, after all has been said, the most objective conclusion can be summed up in this previous post:

Originally posted by Invincible
Back to the topic, "Industrial Engineering" versus "Management Engineering" --

If I want to pursue a career in production/operations or industrial management, I will pursue I.E.

If I want to end up in the manufacturing side of industry, I.E. is a better choice.

On the other hand, if I want a career in finance, O.R., consultancy, investment banking or general management, I'd rather pursue M.E.

Furthermore, if I want to go to a topnotch business school in the USA or Europe later on, I will most probably choose M.E. given its impressive track record.

The choice, I.E. versus M.E., depends on one's career objectives, among others. Aside from the decision on the course, one has to decide also on the school. For M.E., the choice is obvious - Ateneo. For I.E., I'll choose U.P. over DLSU.

[alikishi]

Oscar, hindi naman sa akin yung bad teachers eh ... like for example Mr. Ipapo for finance (who just guessed the grades of my other blockmates), Mr. Toribio (not because he is bad, but) who gave mechanical exams for statistics, and who could ever forget ho sung. Meron akong elective (operations research application) na practically hindi siya nagturo ...

rabbaddal ...
nakakainis lang kasi na nagmamayabang eh mali mali naman yung information na pinagsasabi.

[Oscar01]

Interesting. Although my batch loved Toribio and I don't remember him giving mechanical exams. If that was for Statistics, I seriously doubt you can blame him. It's a mechanical subject, plain and simple.

Anyway, if you want to tease him, just ask him if "Sherwin calls the shots"? It's a line from Marian Reyes that got immortalized in my batch somehow, and I think Capistrano laughed at it at least once.

[bughaw]

Originally posted by alikishi
I dont know if it is a good idea to bring this thread up again. But, who cares anyway...

I just graduated with a degree in Management Engineering. Although I am really not that proud of the way me and my batchmates had gone through the course (because of bad teachers), I believe that the ME curicullum provides the best training ground for future managers and top executives. I cannot say this for IE since hindi ko pa naman na tatake ang IE sa UP or sa DLSU.

While I was reading this thread, I can't avoid but laugh at the funny things people post here. However, I also cannot avoid getting mad at other people's post

School bashing is normal in these kinds of thread. I have no problem with school bashing as long as you have the correct facts to accompany your statements

However, it seems that our friend Sprakatumski is really a true green lasallite ...

Quoting him:
"Anyway, in the area of Operations Research, which is a common ground, ME is so pround of this Single achievement, the 2001 ORSP National Quiz Contest. Mind you, IE from UP and DLSU has been undoubtedly grabbing this award in many previous years. I've visited the DLSU IE Dept. through a friend teacher and i've seen that trophies, awards, and recognitions abound the said department.

And just recently, DLSU IE students topped all participating schools by grabbing 1ST PLACE in the 14th National Industrial Engineering Quiz Contest held at Subic sponsored by the Philippine Institute of Industrial Engineers. Ateneo ME students also contended in this event."

As far as I am concerned, out of the 12 years ORSP is organizing the ORSP National Quiz Contest, Ateneo ME students had won 7 times. I am pretty sure that just recently, my batchmates won the ORSP Contest. Maybe those trophies you saw in the IE department were just 2nd or maybe third placers since according to the my friend (who is the trainer of the ME students), out of the 12 years ORSP sponsored the event, Ateneo won 7 times, UP won 4 times and La Salle won only once. Maybe you can call up ORSP for further details.

*side note* --> I think hindi na kami sasali next year kasi it has been a tradition na kapag nanalo ang isang school in three straight years, hindi na sila sasali next year tapos tutulong nalang sila sa pagorganize.

On your second point where you pointed out that Ateneo ME students joined in the 14th National Industrial Engineering Quiz Contest held at subic, I do not know if La Salle won the event, however I am pretty sure that ME students were not sent there. If Ateneo were to send representatives, I would have known dahil kabatch ko ang ipapadala. I don't care kung nanalo ang LaSalle, however maybe IF Ateneo would be represented there, iba na malamang ang kalalabasan ng event.

Ang kapal ng mukha mong sabihin na pinagyayabang namin ang sinasabi mong kaisa-isang panalo namin sa ORSP quiz shows. Tignan mo muna nang mabuti yung mga nakita mong trophies at baka magulat kang makita mo na puro 2nd and 3rd place ang nandun.

I'm sorry, but this is the truth. Im just stating facts here

I believe some of your batchmates also won an inter-school Accounting contest.

If I'm not mistaken, some UP and DLSU Accounting Majors were part of the group who ate ME's dust.

About Mr. Toribio, my batch thinks he has such a strong resemblance to April Boy. =)

[Oscar01]

Originally posted by bughaw About Mr. Toribio, my batch thinks he has such a strong resemblance to April Boy. =)
Don't underestimate his charm... :P

April Boy... when thinking or when laughing?

[norix]

In the first place, magkaibang magkaiba ang IE at ME as a course and magkaiba pa yung schools na pinagkokompare dito.

SO it is not a good idea to compare ME and IE. Both courses have unique characteristics na intrinsic to the course. It is a matter of personal choice on which career path one is willing to take or pursue. So if you want a management career, ME might be a good choice for you (considering na marami pa naman management courses diyan) or if you want an engineering career, IE is more suited.

Good day to all!

[Fried Green Tomato]

Enough has been said about the I.E. and M.E. discussion here.

I graduated in the very late 80's with a degree of Industrial Management Engineering minor in Chemical Engineering (IME-chem). For sure, there were some disparities with the IME of Lasalle from the I.E. of UP and even Ateneo's M.E. and the differences were discussed in length already.

However, IME in Lasalle teaches you one very important discipline in life and that is to have a CRITICAL MIND. I'm just talking here about IME and no offense to the courses of UP and Ateneo.

Critical thinking is a vital component in the decision making, an attribute that most IMEs of LaSalle have. Don't just accept things as they are. Always ask questions, criticize, analyze and make your own recommendation. In short, an IME student of LaSalle learns what COMMON SENSE is all about!

FIGHT FOR FIVE!

ANIMO LA SALLE!!!

[Oscar01]

Hmmm... I think I misunderstood the above, but the summary seems to be:

DLSU teaches common sense.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Oscar01
Hmmm... I think I misunderstood the above, but the summary seems to be:

DLSU teaches common sense.

No. DLSU IME allegedly teaches common sense.:D

Based on my experience, the subjects that really taught me how to think critically were Accounting, Finance, and Game Theory rather than the ultra-techincal math subjects like OR. And the best thing about these subjects is not because they develop critical skills which leads to common sense (and I don't see the link between critical skills and common sense), but rather, these subjects hone and challenge your intuition - to think way beyond what you think common sense tells you and make an informed decision based on the limited facts and numbers that real-life situations present to you.

[Oscar01]

I agree, though I was also able to find places to express that intuition in OR. :)

[Fried Green Tomato]

Originally posted by rabbaddal


No. DLSU IME allegedly teaches common sense.:D

And the best thing about these subjects is not because they develop critical skills which leads to common sense (and I don't see the link between critical skills and common sense)

Common sense is not as common as some would think it is. The development of your critical skill(s) is on the way you have been trained to look at things on a bigger picture. A box looks like a one-dimensional thing from one point of view or side but try looking at it from a different vantage point and it becomes a three-dimensional object. Common sense comes to a person on the way you look at things from a very practical point of view. Technically, it is called the critical thinking process which one develops from the different disciplines in the IME program (which I guess is also in the IE program of UP and ME of ADMU). But if one tries to simplify it, it is just plain common sense. The difference lies on how one enables to enhance his common sense into a higher plane of critical path.

Be it critical thinking or common sense, they are just one and the same. We are just looking from different views/perspectives but they are of the same thing.

"Logic knows no bound and determination makes it easier to understand"

FIGHT FOR FIVE!

ANIMO LA SALLE!!!

[Oscar01]

Though every university course should, ideally, instill critical thinking in students.

I can't think of a single course that shouldn't...

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Oscar01

I can't think of a single course that shouldn't...

The difference is in the orientation. ME, for example, teaches critical thinking through a quant-business approach and IE/IME teaches it through a technical approach. Other courses like Philo teach critical thinking through an evaluation of oneself, while Theo develops this skill through the evaluation of one's faith. To each his/her own.

[mins]

i also think that the me curriculum is designed to develop critical thinking among its students. however, the lack of good teachers in the department has raised a lot of doubts if the me program is actually able to achieve this goal. as oscar mentioned, me students get only one or two subjects per field, so ending up with a bad teacher makes a lot of difference.

btw, sherwin toribio is now in the us taking up his phd degree. he now has a baby girl, i think. (i'm not sure about the gender.)