Ateneans, your opinions regarding the RegCom and the Reg Process...

[mark_mark]

hi! i think it's one of the hottest issues right now. if you attended the Debate you probably must have heard don lim's speech or comment regarding the reg com. after that, the whole issue of reg process and the reg com were brought into attention to the Ateneo College community. the reg com reacted (daw) with don lim's comment of it (the reg itself) as slow. anyway, can you comment on this?

yeah i do admit, its kinnda slow but i have developed my own strategy of finishing my reg earlier. he he he

[Oscar01]

A bit off-topic, but I entered the Ateneo in 1997, and Reg was insane back then. That summer was the first year they tried computerization, and it worked without a hitch for most (and screwed up bad for a few), and they never tried it again till I was about to graduate.

I couldn't believe graduating having seen assessment in less than five minutes.

[victory]

Here's my two cents worth on the matter of criticizing institutions and policy: If you are so vehement about tearing something down, then you had better make sure that you have a concrete, workable proposal that will truly serve to improve the situation -- and you had better be willing and able to put in the time and effort that is required to implement this change. Whether it means putting up an organization that will truly promote positive change, or rolling up your sleeves and doing the work yourself, you had better make sure you a) understand the context and history of the institution or phenomenon you are criticizing and b) you are really confident that the "new change" you propose will truly make things better.

Otherwise, you are simply wasting everyone's time.

So Mr. Lim criticized the RegCom for being "slow." Maybe so. What exactly was his proposal for improving the system?

[bugsbunny]

Originally posted by Oscar01

I couldn't believe graduating having seen assessment in less than five minutes.

with the improved assessment, you could have. naabutan niyo yun di ba? at the most, like 20 minutes, tapos ka na.

sa totoo lang, kung naging mabagal ang regcom, hindi lang sila. pati na rin ang mga estudyante, na madalas hindi nakikinig.

[mark_mark]

my intention of putting this thread is not to criticize my institution darling or our own institution. the purpose of this thread was to come up with a healthy discussion. and this is actually the purpose of PEX. my opinion, everyone should be willing to accept criticisms for they are healthy. they have a purpose. and that purpose is to be able to come up with ways of improving the system. why can't the Regcom accept criticisms by the way? what is wrong with that? i guess what matters here is on how you state express your criticisms. criticisms are there to remind you and to guide and to make you better. well, if we can't afford to have criticisms, then we should ban all publications and newspaper columnists in the country including Guidon for making commentaries.

[victory]

Constructive criticism is always healthy -- and the question is not about "free speech" per se, but free speech with responsibility. The right to "free speech" is fine and dandy, but can you exercise your free speech by yelling "fire" inside a packed movie theater and then pleading "I have a right to free speech" if you are arrested?

I should qualify that I was not actually in Ateneo to hear Mr. Lim's comments about RegCom during the Miting de Avance, so in the end, he may indeed have criticized RegCom in a fair, responsible way, proposing how his party (if elected) would help make the system better. What exactly did he say? If all he said was that "RegCom is slow" without actually proposing concrete plans for improvement, then what kind of platform was he going to implement if he was indeed elected?

If I was there to hear this candidate's speech, I would have asked two things:

1. Claim: RegCom is slow. What exactly do you propose to improve the system? Be concrete, give me a timetable, and list the kind of resources you will need to implement your program. If you need money, how will you raise it? If you need a new computer program to use some auction mechanism to allocate courses, do you have someone who will write the program for you, or implement it via an infrastructure that won't crash in the middle of the registration process? What exactly do you want to do to help improve the system?
2. Given proposal in (1), let's take an informal poll of those in the crowd: Who believes this proposal is both effective and implementable, and who is willing to put this candidate in office, holding him accountable for the changes he seeks to create?

The best critical pieces, whether they are found in the Guidon, popular newspapers, or the most respected scholarly journals, propose some effective and implementable program to address the problem. If it's just criticism left and right without any sound proposal to help improve things, what use is that? I suppose that in idle conversation we can b*tch about anything endlessly without having to worry about actual proposals to improve things, but I expect a lot more from publications -- and I certainly expect a lot more from people running for office.

[mark_mark]

isn't talking and discussing the first crucial step in implementing reforms and changes for improvement? how can you jump step 5, 6, or 7 if you don't start with step 1. this is precisely my point. this is step 1. we have to talk and discuss things. we have to see and look at the present Reg system. what went wrong? why is it slow? what are it's flaws etc.:cool:

[victory]

Why don't you go and get to know how RegCom does things -- its objective function ("to get students registered for classes quickly and efficiently?"), its constraints (what kind of resources does it have at its disposal, what kind of support does it get from the administration, what kind of demands do different administrative units and academic departments around AdMU place on it, etc.), how did RegCom come about as an organization and how has it developed over the years?

What are the underlying causes that drive whatever "complaints" or "inefficiencies" one sees? Get at the root of these things and then you're on your way to helping "solve" the problem.

The best way to do this is to actually ask someone who's worked with RegCom and who knows its operations very well. mark_mark, perhaps you have friends who work with RegCom? Perhaps you work with RegCom yourself?

This is the crux of your dialogue: Why solicit the opinions of other Ateneans who can't see further than "how slow the reg process goes" and "how to game it"? Talking and discussing things among people who don't know better won't do much good: All you'll get at worst are variants of the same complaint -- "slow and inefficient" etc. -- or at best, idle speculation about what might be causing all this "inefficiency."

I'd go to RegCom directly and see how they do things, and how they came about to adopt their practices and norms.

And yes -- I have worked with RegCom a lot during the past, and I know a lot of very dedicated, smart people who put in a lot of time and effort (including some fairly fancy linear algebra solutions to registration problems) to help make things better. Several of them graduated with honors from some of the toughest, most technical courses AdMU has to offer, and more than academic smarts per se a lot of them were also great team-players with tremendous leadership and interpersonal skills. So how come "it's only gotten this far"? How come "people are still complaining?"

Aren't you more interested in getting at the root of these things, at the governing dynamics of the situation?

Go and ask RegCom -- know how they do things. And when you know as much as they do -- try and solve the problem and see if you get farther than they do.

[Oscar01]

victory: In fairness, there's a lot, lot more to that process than the student volunteers.

In your terms, a consultant's results are sometimes just as good as the client departments.

For example, the Regcom volunteers don't make decisions about the class schedules, and just compensate as quickly as they can whenever faculty make changes.

Also, I think there were a number of interpersonal issues that had nothing to do with technical details and logistics.

[victory]

victory: in fairness, there's a lot, lot more to that process than the student volunteers

Oscar01: And that's why I hinted subtly at the kind of constraints under which RegCom volunteers need to work. :) Read how I fleshed out the "constraints" part in my post above... do you think I am generally critical or sympathetic about RegCom's situation as a student organization? :)

[Oscar01]

A number of my classmates weren't exactly sympathetic, citing an overemphasis on hierarchy and a very rigid work culture, and GUIDON blew it up a couple of years ago.

That aside, I agree they get a lot of undeserved flak if only because they're the visible end of the process. A few years ago, aside from RegCom, people were writing comments on bulletin boards like "Mr. Darwin Yu, you deserve a pat on the back... of the head."

[Oscar01]

Oh, but my initial point was it was "more" hellish several years ago.

[mark_mark]

actually if you are smart enough, you must solicit information from both sides, both from the regcom and from the student body itself. you might wanna check my topic.

[mark_mark]

well if you actually go to UP you'll be surprised na harap harapan kang mumurahin ng tao if they don't like the system. it's so easy for us to suggest, to complain and to bash those who criticize us but when you are actually there and pinagmumura ka na, goodbye ego! hanggang salita ka lang. wala ka nang magagawa. maybe matapang lang tayo coz PEX lang to e.

[victory]

Oscar01 and I did qualify our earlier posts as sort of off-topic, our own "two cents worth." Apologies if we took your topic through what for you might be a winding (misdirected?) route.

I may be misinterpreting you, and I may be taking this too personally, but I hope that your last comment about "being smart enough" was not any kind of "subtle" sarcastic comment directed against the paths and perspectives through which my posts have taken your thread. I had no intentions of attacking you or your ideas; I hope you didn't interpret my posts in this negative fashion. Apologies if you did.

However, you seriously should reconsider whether you want to start a bashing war by bringing in comments about "being smart enough" into this thread.

Not comments about "smarts," mark_mark. Not with me.

[rAiNeDaNcE19]

Grabe angbulok ng reg last sem. Especially at SOM. They didn't even give out stubs so imagine mo nalang ano ang nangyari sa pila. Instead of humaba, eh TUMABA nang tumaba nang tumaba. We got in line early pero lahat sumingit sa harap, eh dahil walang stub wala naman kaming masabi. And I think (opinion lang to) medyo may prejudice sa MIS students ang SOM. Pano nung last reg sa SOM MIS students ang pinakahuling pinapasok, tapos we were not allowed to enroll sa ibang subjects unless nakatapos na daw lahat ng iba. :mad: Tapos dun sa early reg ng SOM kami nanaman hinuli as usual. Coincidence pa kaya yan? Nakakainis talaga sobra. :mad:

[Oscar01]

Originally posted by mark_mark
well if you actually go to UP you'll be surprised na harap harapan kang mumurahin ng tao if they don't like the system.
Whoa, there...

I can understand what you're trying to say, but that came out a bit offensive.

Incidentally, I've spent one school year in UP, and I haven't been cussed by any student or professor there. Just to be clear...

And on another note, some RegCom people deserve praise for being able to stay cool while putting up with irate students. Again, these people don't have as much control over the reg system and the overall plan as you might think.