[Merged] How to Invest?

[diwata28]

i would like to invest in the stocks, but i don't know how. maybe you guys could help me out.

thanks.:)

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Note from Moderator:

Despite diwata28's very specific question, I would like to make this thread the official Q&A venue for basic investment questions, without limiting ourselves to the stock market.

- KuyaDanny

[raven23]

You'll have to consider, first and foremost, your income versus your capacity for savings / investment.

For example, if your income is, say, P100,000 a month, of which you hypothetically spend P30,000 of which on monthly expenses (rent, food, etc.). That leaves you P70,000 of 'disposable income'. Suppose, furthermore, you spend P20,000 on luxuries or non-essentials. That leaves P50,000.

Out of P50,000, you'll need to budget a certain amount for 'liquid' savings -- i.e., a savings that you can 'dip into' for say, unemployment or other contingencies. Say you budget P20,000 a month for this.

That leaves P30,000 a month you can then 'invest'.

Now, your investment style will again largely depend upon your investment goals and your risk-tolerance. Your goals could be one or combination of: Long-term savings (> 10 years), for a retirement / pension
Medium-term savings (5-10 years), say, to buy a house
Short-term savings (3-5 years), say, to get married / buy a car
Near-term investments (1-2 years), just to have more income
Depending upon your goal or combination of goals, you should then decide upon the appropriate mix of investment 'instruments' which give varying rates of return, at varying risk, with different time frames. Examples would be: Insurance - long-term, low risk, low-return
Fixed-rate instruments: time-deposits, treasury bills, bonds - medium-term, low-risk, medium-return
Real-estate - long-term, low-risk, low-liquidity, but inflation-beater (possibly high-returns, too)
Ordinary savings - short to medium-term, low-risk, low-return
Mutual funds & blue-chip stocks (established companies with long history) - short to long-term, low to medium-risk, low to medium-returns
Foreign-exchange & speculative stocks (IPOs, new companies) - short-term, high-risk, high-returns
Am just an armchair economist / finance guy, so professional analysts please feel free to correct / supplement.

Oh, and don't take my word for it. As with health, consult with a professional -- if you have a friend who's into finance, then great, otherwise, hire an accountant / fund manager.

Good luck!

[scubaotaku]

raven23 pwede bang mag invest ng 10000 lang a speculative stocks? and how do you really invest, sino kokontakin ? is it possible to lose all my investment?

[diwata28]

raven23 : as of now, time deposit pa lang ang investment ko. i'm still a college student but, i believe that i have a little money to invest.

thanks for the advice.:)

[raven23]

Originally posted by scubaotaku
raven23 pwede bang mag invest ng 10000 lang a speculative stocks? and how do you really invest, sino kokontakin ? is it possible to lose all my investment? Caveat: I'm not a finance guy. I don't play the stock market. All my information is second-hand (a close friend & business partner of mine is a professional analyst, an aunt was a forex broker, and I myself have been approached before by other brokers).

I know that if you want to 'play' the stock market, you're better off with a much larger amount, like, say, P100,000. The minimum I keep hearing is P50,000. Most people start anywhere from P200,000 to P1M.

The simple reason being: you need enough cash to act as 'leeway' -- the technical term is 'hedge' -- to cover short-term losses in hopes of long-term gains.

Also, you have to consider the various fees covering stock market transactions -- broker's fees, document stamps, etc. So if the fees come out to P500 per transaction -- you got it, with P10,000 only sa broker's fees pa lang, lugi ka na sa kikitain mo.

Yes, it really is possible to lose all your investment -- especially if your fund manager / broker is inept or just too agressive.

If you're serious about investing in stocks, all you need is to get in touch with a broker / brokerage firm. You'll want only the most credible ones, of course.

I really can't tell you which ones are good, though. I'm hoping professional finance guys will jump on this thread soon.

Good luck!

[dreyes]

Pano ba mag-invest sa stock at bond market. Saan ba nakakabili
nito. Pasensya na wala po kong alam kung paano mag-invest dito at sana I can learn something sa mga expert na dito

[richyuppie]

I'm a stock broker/trader and I can give you free presentation if you want. I'll tell you all the A to Z's in the market as well as stock market tips. Give me a Private Message if your really want to invest.

[abcxyz]

one word - SELL!

[Spyfrat]

INVEST IN SURPLUS CASH, meaning perang d pambayad nang tubig, kuryente, telepono, tuition at lalo na pamalengke. NEVER INVEST IN BORROWED FUNDS, dito ma double whammy ka kapag bumagsak ang stock mo dahil may interest ka pang babayaran sa inutang mo. YOU SHOULD BE EMOTIONALLY MATURED, baka kasi kung bumagsak ang istak mo mag ka nervous breakdown ka, at saka baka d ka makakain o makatulog, at saka mangangayat ka, nakuuuu. KNOW YOUR SATISFACTION LEVEL, dito mo makikilala nang husto ang tinatawag na greed. kasi kahit malaki na kita mo gusto mo walang katapusang akyatan nang presyo nang hawak mong stock. dapat may satisfaction level kang babantayan kung saan ang langit para sa yo, kasi d po pwede yung akyat lang nang akyat, may bagsakan rin pong nangyayari. NEVER EVER MARRY YOUR STOCK, mas malambing si misis o mister kesa sa stock d po ba? mangyari kasi kung mahal na mahal mo ang iyong stock, d mo na yan ipagbibili kahit may crisis o may masamang nangyayari na sa companya. kasi long term ang time horizon raw, sus me, d wishing wishing na tayo niyan. KNOW HOW TO CUT LOSS, masakit man pero dapat alam mo ang kaya mong ipatalo. d po pwedeng hahayaan mo na lang mauwi sa wala ang pinaghirapan mo. and tinatawag nilang "paper loss" ay isang malaking kahibangan, kesyo d pa naibenta wala pang talo, ika nga unrealized loss, kalokohan. pa comfort comfort lang po yan. yan lang po muna.

mga dagdag kaalaman, try visiting these sites:
www.philstock.net
www.dfnn.com
www.idsfinance.com
www.pse.org.ph

[Spyfrat]

u can post ur query in these forums if u. all sort of investors and gamblers alike are present in these boards.

http://www.philstocks.net/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro

http://www.idsfinance.com/free/analyst_corner/money/default.asp?EXC=PSE&EXCTAB=PSE&LANG=E

cautious lang sa mga hypers. there are posters who post rumors that are pure bs as well. just remember it's ur money, u alone is responsible for it. dont jump on news to easily, most of the time tapos na akyatan sa stock prices bago dumating e print nang media. beware of the media hype, as well as the so called analyst who do nothing but sell their stock picks to uniformed investors. the last thing u wanna do is to follow their crap. if it's a foreign broker who recommends a stock forget about it, theyre more incline to capital preservation rather than appreciation. walang foreign brokers na kumikita dito kaya nagsialisan hehe opsss. j/k if u want a good broker, there's one i can recommend and that is wealth securities of the wilson sy group. im from a different house kaya im not bias. why wealth, coz they're the only one who accumulate massive shares of MFC (manulife) and SLC (sunlife), both canadian insurance companies when it was hovering at high 300's - 500 a share. Wealth sec is the only house who keeps on average up (even when the phisix is plunging) those stocks. MFC and SLC have appreciated 300% in 2 yrs time. just imagine how much profit they have made on those 2 stocks alone.

[Hulk]

All of the guys who responded were all stock market gurus. I on the other hand was a foremr fixed-income trader, so ako sasagot ng questions mo about bonds.

There are basically two types of bonds which regards to the issuer, they are:
government securities (GS) - which are direct obligations of the national government
commercial papers (CPs) - issued by companies

Among the two I recommend investing in government securities, due to the absence of a reliable rating agency for CPs.

For GS, there are basically two instruments, Treasury bills (1 year or less) and Treasury Notes (2 yrs., 5 yrs., 7 yrs., 10 yrs., 20 yrs.). To purchase these securities directly from banks you need a large amount of capital. Some require as high as P 1MM as their minimum trading lots.

If you have a modest amount, I suggest you approach your local Landbank branch and avail of the small savers program of the Bureau of Treasury. These are Tbills and FXTNs that could be purchased in minimum lots of P5,000.

You need to open a Landbank cash account to buy these securities, where LB could deposit your interest coupons and the maturity value of your bond. In return for purchasing the security, you would also get a securites accout, they call it ROSS or Registry of Scripless Securities. Anyway just imagine it as something similar to a cash account, except that it has securities instead of cash.

The only drawback of this investment is the fact that it is not tradeable unlike the regular GS, hence you cannot benefit from movements in interest rates.

GS are actually good investments. In 1997 we advised a client of ours to buy a 10 yr. note at 19%. Imagine earning 19% now when interest rates (Tbill) are down to about 9%.

[Mymnosene]

this is an interesting topic...does this mean, though, that minimum-wage peeps like me cannot invest at all? and what about this investing for kids that i keep hearing about?

i hope finance peeps can post their ops here, as well....

[raven23]

Minimum wage?

No offense, but given the cost of living nowadays I can't even see how minimum wage can keep you alive & comfortable.

I'd say -- for a single individual, the minimum required for a decent, comfortable life in Metro Manila is P20K - P30K a month. That's rent, utilities, clothing, food and transportation, plus some (barely) leisure.

If you're making up to twice that (meaning, P40K-60K), that's great. Put your "disposable income" into savings -- or dispose of it if you're so "shopping" inclined. :)

Then, with enough savings, that's the only time you invest.

[Spyfrat]

depende sa board lot i guess. i have clients na students, farmers, housewives and investors na average workers who earns mga 5-6k a month. there's this misconception na investing in the stock market is for the rich only. kapag may konting talks sa mga schools, yan ang una kong sinasabi. there are stocks na mas mura pa sa isang stick nang yosi. On board lots, stocks that has a price of P1 up to P10 has a board lot of 1,000 shares. P10 to 100, minimum board is 100 shares. P100 and higher, 10 shares naman. So habang lumalaki yung price nang stock, lumiliit yung board lot. For example, Jollibee (JFC) closes at 12.25 today. You can buy 100 shares of JFC at 12.25 which amounts to (excluding fees) P1,225. Certainly kung nag iinternet kayo o nag te txt makaka afford kayo mag invest. I have a client na every month bumibili nang 100 shares nang JFC in trust for sa mga anak nya. There are disadvantages though if your investment is less than 10k. Percentage wise u need a bigger price appreciation bago mo ma realized ang gain.
I think my thread about stock market ** on which i post some points bago mag invest.

[lupuS]

Spyfrat, do you work for a broker? How much will commission and other charges amount to for that 100-share lot of JFC in your example? Will your firm take on a client with only that much money to invest?

[diwata28]

spyfrat, you mean kahit 2k lang pwede na mag invest? kindly pm me your cel#.

thanks

[diwata28]

anong phil companies ang maganda mag-invest?

thanks

[Spyfrat]

yup pd kahit 2k. sa karagdagan kaalaman paki tsek tong site

http://www.pse.org.ph/
http://philstock.findhere.com/

pasensya po kung hindi ko magawang ibigay yung cel# ko. hoping 4 ur kind understanding.

anong phil companies ang maganda mag-invest? <--ano po yung time horizon nyo?

ang nasa akin lang po kung may kaalaman na kayo sa pag iinvest (sa mga bumabasa)..
for speculative play: Alcorn Petroleum (APM) saka Oriental Petroleum (OPM)
for short term: Equitable-PCI (EBC), kung sanay na sanay ka na sa pagsusugal hehe EBC Warrant. San Miguel (SMC &SMCB).
sa medium term: First Holdings (FPH), Metrobank (MBT) saka BPI. Pero yung MBT at BPI pd hintayin kasi kaka window dress lang nang dalawang yan.
sa long term naman po ay wala. hirap po kasing kumita kahit short term lang sa long term pa kaya? saka walang buy and hold dito. we are a small market, konting ubo lang nang japan at merika, nilalagnat na tayo. kung pipilitin akong magbigay, dun ako sa China Bank (CHIB), Manila Bulletin (MB), Centro Escolar Univ (CEU) kasi maganda yung record sa pagbigay nang div.

yan lang po. disclaimer na lang.

[Spyfrat]

i think the computation formula on the sites i give are not updated. eto yung updated.

http://www.inq7money.net/stock/stock101.asp

lupuS, yup. pero base ako sa iloilo.

Buy JFC 100 shares @ 12.50/share
gross amt = 100 x 12.50 = 1,250.00
commision = 1.5% x 1,250 = 18.75
vat on comm = 1.88
doc stamps = .0075 x # of shares = .0075 x 100 = 0.75
pcd fee = .0000917 x 1,250 = 0.11
sccp fee = 10% of pcd fee = 0.10 x 0.11 = 0.01
total = gross amt + comm + vat on comm + doc stamps + pcd fee + sccp fee
buying cost for 100 shares of JFC at 12.50 = 1,271.50

[Hulk]

Originally posted by Mymnosene
this is an interesting topic...does this mean, though, that minimum-wage peeps like me cannot invest at all? and what about this investing for kids that i keep hearing about?

i hope finance peeps can post their ops here, as well....

Of course you can! Spyfrat is right it doesn't take a lot to get an investment portfolio going. If you have a modest amount to invest here are some of your options:

1. Small-Denominated Treasury Notes (SDTs) - as I mentioned above this are in lots of P 5,000. This program was iniated to help smaller investors to have access to the bond market. Former National Treasurer Briones stressed that before this was launched, her salary as a UP Professor was not sufficient to purchase such instruments, but now she can.

2. Common trust funds (CTFs) - the purpose of CTFs is to pool funds of small investors and have them enjoy the benefits of a larger portfolio. They are relatively safe, depending on the investment type, and considerably liquid. Some CTFs have minimum investment lots of P 10,000.

3. Mutual funds - it's still kind of new here but it likewise has the same principles as a CTF. There are two types of Mutual Funds. There are open-ended and close ended. Open ended is that the fund could continually grow by adding more investors while close ended ones are listed in the PSE and traded like stocks.

4. Stocks - like Spyfrat said it's not that expensive. It's just a common misconception. If you want a bigger portfolio just try pooling your money with your friends. My friends and I have done this several times. You just have to iron out sharing and decision-making guidelines. Stocks are a good investment in the long-run especially now that stock prices are low. If you're willing to wait for five years, I'm sure they can outperform fixed-income instruments.

5. Guaranteed Investment Funds (GIFs) - this is what insurance and pre-need people continually sell you. It's still an investment and it allows you to tailor it to your own cashflows since you could dictate on what plan you want. Educational plans, especially inflation-protected ones are actually GREAT investments. Good luck in finding one (inflation-protected)though. You should also take good care in choosing your counter-parties since pre-need companies, unlike insurance companies are merely regulated by the SEC (who have a lot of other functions), instead of a specific body like the Insurance Commission.

Hope that helps you guys. :)

[richyuppie]

THE MINIMUM AMOUNT NEEDED TO INVEST IN THE STOCK MARKET:

Trading is done by board lot or round lot system. Therefore, the minimum amount needed to invest in the stock market varies and will depend on the market price of the security. Prices of stocks move through a scale of minimum price fluctuations. The board lot determines minimum number of shares one can purchase or sell at a specific price range.

To make it simple, there's is a corresponding board lot (an aamount of stocks that is the usual trading number for that price) value to a certain share price. There's a table for this board lot, but to make it simplier, just multiply the share price by ten (10) until it reaches 4 figures. For example, if you're going to buy Sam Miguel Corporation "B" (SMCB) at Php 54/share, then you have to buy at least 100 shares (54 x 10 x 10). If you're going to buy SM Prime Holdings (SMPH) with a current market value of Php 6.20 / share, then you need at least 1,000 shartes of SMPH. However, if the share price of the stock is above one thousand pesos (Php 1,000) like Manulife Financial Corp. (MFC) or Sun Life of Canada (SLC), the minimum board lot remains at Php10. Moreover, the transaction should be in the multiples of of that corresponding board lot value (i.e. if the board lot is one hundred, then the transaction should be in 100, 200, 300, etc. shares. Any in excess of these is called a Odd Lot (an amount of stocks that is not the usual trading number). Like if you're selling 350 shares of SMCB@54/sh., then the 50 remaining shares should be traded separately, and usually cheaper in price.

So with that, you can invest in the stock market with at least Php 1,000, if, the share price of that stock is Php 0.001, 0.01, 0.10, 1.00, 10.00, or 100.00. However, there are surcharges with each tranaction, and one of them is the broker's commission rate, which is Php 225 or 1 - 1.5% of the extention (number of shares x unit price) amount of the transaction, which ever is higher. With this, investing in Php 2,000 and 20,000 would have the same commission rate of Php 225, which is exclusive of the extention amount. Plus, other minor surcharges such as VAT, Doc, Stamp Tax (if buying), Sales Tax (if selling), and the PCD (Philippine Central Depository) fee. The estimated cost of these surcharges (including the broker's fee) is around 1.5 - 2.5% for every transaction.

For more questions regarding this matter and other questions about the stock market, send me a private message. I can give you a free demonstration, if necessary.

Indeed!

[quarklion]

Hey richyuppie,
Being a broker, can you still invest for yourself?
If so, What stocks are your favorite?

[richyuppie]

Originally posted by quarklion
Hey richyuppie,
Being a broker, can you still invest for yourself?
If so, What stocks are your favorite?

Yes, as a broker, you can handle your own account. The problem with this is that brokers tend to be bias to their own accounts. That is why the PSE (or is it the SEC/) issued this "client first" policy sometime last year. This policy gives the client the first priority over their brokers. For example, You posted to buy SMPH for 6.4 and one of your clents also posted the same transaction a few minutes later. Your client's transaction will be executed first before your transaction.

I do have my own favorite stocks, but I rather not say it because it always changes from tome to time, sometimes even the very next day. I check out the graphs everyday at technistock.com, read the papers, watch the news (ANC Business Nightly, Bloomberg, CNBC), check out their financial status, and listen to rumors (very important!).

Also, about tips, there are hundreds or even thousand of tips out there everyday; on the internet, newspapers, TV, etc. It is important to consider foir the reason for such a tip. Some tipsters will tell you to buy "stock A" because they do have an investment in "stock A" and they want to get rid of it. Yup, it's true. As for me, I do ckeck and listen to these tips, but I do have my own judgment on this, through the things that I've explained in paragraph # 2.

Indeed!

[Hulk]

Originally posted by richyuppie


Yes, as a broker, you can handle your own account. The problem with this is that brokers tend to be bias to their own accounts. That is why the PSE (or is it the SEC/) issued this "client first" policy sometime last year. This policy gives the client the first priority over their brokers. For example, You posted to buy SMPH for 6.4 and one of your clents also posted the same transaction a few minutes later. Your client's transaction will be executed first before your transaction.



Do you feel that stricter rules should be implemented?
:mconfused:

[quarklion]

richyuppie,
If a public company "A" sell the stocks at P1.00 per share, then the closing price turn out to be P6.0, who will benifit for P5.0/share profit? Is it company "A" who hold 100% of the stocks volume initially?

What is the meaning of PSE index is up by 4.72% at the volume of 1174.29?

[Hulk]

Originally posted by quarklion
richyuppie,
If a public company "A" sell the stocks at P1.00 per share, then the closing price turn out to be P6.0, who will benifit for P5.0/share profit? Is it company "A" who hold 100% of the stocks volume initially?



Could I answer this?

Primarily the one who benefits would be the stockholder. He/she was the one who bought it at P1.00 and could now sell it at P6.00.

The management of the company also benefits because their primary goal is to increase shareholder value. That means that they could rest easy that their jobs would be secure for awhile.

The company also benefits because it means that if they wish to raise new capital by issuing new shares, they could get more value from it.

What is the meaning of PSE index is up by 4.72% at the volume of 1174.29?

First of all you should know what the Phisix index is all about. It is a basket of 30 stocks commonly referred to as "blue chip stocks" that are believed to represent the whole market, because of its relative size. The index is computed using a weighted method depending on the capitalization of the stock.

If the news says that it is up by 4.72% then that means it is up by 4.72% from yesterday's close, unless of course they say otherwise.

I'm not sure about the 1,174.29 that you were referring to, but I think you are talking about the index itself. The volume is usually stated in terms of hundred of millions or the number of shares traded in a day.

Pasensya ka na richyuppie, wala lang akong magawa kaya inunahan na kita. :)

[richyuppie]

Hulk, about stircter rules, well, no comment. As for me, I really prioritize my clients first before my own account, and in my own account, I usually go to non-active speculative stocks. With this, I do not have any "conflicts" with my clients. About answering the question for me, well, that is no problem to me. Anyway, I'll add more to it...

A stock who opened with a market value of Php 1.00 cannot close at Php 6.00, unless its a warrant stock. All non-warrant stocks have a ceiling price (+ 50% of the previous close) and a floor price.(- 40% of the previous close). So if a stock closed yesterday at Php 1.00, during the next trading day, the stock can only be traded between P 0.60 to 1.50, unless, its an odd lot (which was explained in my previous post) or a block sale (a transaction worth at least P 5 million).. About on who benefits from such an increase, well everybody benenfits from it from the shareholders to the whole economy.

The PHISIX or the Philippine Composite Index is a market indicator that averages 30 stocks in 3 different categories (the 10 biggest and most actively treaded each of these stock classifications: blue chips, growth, and speculative stocks) to determine how the market as a whole is doing. An Index is a point system used to measure this averages. If it says that the PHISIX is up by 4.72 points, then you just add 4.72 to the previous PHISIX value. If it says that the PHISIX is up by 4.72%, then just multiply the previous PHISIX value by 1.0472. If it says that the volume is 1,174.29, then its in millions and it indicates the number of shares traded in that trading day. But the value turnover for a trading day is more important than the volume. The value turnover is the total amount of money that is traded for that trading day.

Indeed!

[richyuppie]

PHISIX (Philippine Composite Index) Companies:
(also known as Index Stocks)

MBT, TEL, SMC, JFC, MER, ICT, AC, BEL, DMCI, BPI, ION, FPH, ALI, SMPH, PX, PCOR, GLO, EBC, PNB, JGS, MUSX, FLI, BPC, AEV, MPC, URC, MEG, UBP, ABS, and UCC.

[GOwin]

say i got surplus cash of P15k. how should i invest it?

(kasama kasi sa new year's resolution ko ang pagbabawas ng aking pamimili ng mga "laruan" ko, so now i'm looking at investments and savings.)

TIA

[richyuppie]

Gowin, the first step in investing in the stock market is too look for a broker. I’m a broker, and I can help you and tell you everything you need to know in the stock market. You can send me a PM for more details.

[quarklion]

Questions:
1. How can an investor know how much share is available on STOCK A?
2. Can an investor know which company has bought and how much the buyer bought a shares from STOCK A?
3. Can PSE give a report to investors about the stock positions of Broker companies?
4. If I bought a share thru my broker, how long would it take to confirm that the transaction has been made?
5. In a hi-low-close chart. What is the meaning of close price? Is there only one close price occured between opening and closing the market? I'm thinking that there could be several closing price for every STOCK during the trading.

[richyuppie]

Answers:
1. An investor may ask his/her broker how many shares are posted or available for STOCK A at the lowest asking price. This data or information appears in our monitors.
2. Yes. The investor may ask his/her broker which brokerage house bought shares of STOCK A. Again, this data or information appears in our monitors.
3. Before I entered as a trader, I asked the same information from the Philippine Stock Exchange (PSE). At that time, they told me that they don't have that information and to try obtaining such rankings of brokerage houses from the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). So I went to the SEC, and if I remember it right, I went to the third floor of the SEC Building. The people there are nice and gave me the rankings from the previous fiscal year in less than 20 minutes without any hassle.
4. After you ordered your broker to buy stocks, and your broker is not in the trading floor, he/she will then call the trading floor to execute the purchase order. The people in the trading floor will then make your order and they will say to your broker "Done" if the transaction was executed. However, if you tell your broker to just post a buying price that does not match the current lowest asking price, then the trading people will say to your broker "Posted." Then its up to your broker to monitor your posting through their monitors. If your broker saw that your posting was executed, then its your broker's responsibility to relay to you the message that you were able to buy X number of shares of stock X.
5. Previous Close - the last reported price of the stock prior to the trading day
Open - the first price of the stock at the start (9:30) of the trading day
High - the intraday highest trading price
Low - the intraday lowest selling price
Close - the price of the stock at the closing (12:00) bell of the trading day

[quarklion]

Thanks richyuppie.

Q1: How the broker knows that a STOCK A had overbought or oversold and profit-taking will take place next?

Q2:What is the indicator that an investor could verify thru web sites market index postings?

Q3: About the dividends , if STOCK A shares goes from investor to investor everyday. How could an investor be sure that he could claim a dividends?

Q4: Is a day-trader could know to temporarily hold his shares and wait for the dividends to release?

[matbike]

How does one determine the opening price?

[richyuppie]

quarklion

A1: There are two kinds of methods in choosing the right company to invest. They are the Fundamental Analysis (the study the company's current management and position in the market; economic, social, and political factors; accounting-related factors; the potential to generate earnings to determine whether stock prices are valued correctly, undervalued, or overvalued; etc.) and Technical Analysis (the study of price and volume based mostly on graph and chart patterns to identify trends).

A technical analyst doesn't look at income statements, balance sheets, company policies, or anything fundamental about the company. The technician looks at the actual history of trading and price in a security or index. This is usually done in the form of a chart. He/she believes that securities move in trends. And these trends continue until something happens to change the trend. With trends, patterns and levels are detectable. Technical analysis is mainly concerned with market indicators. These technical indicators look at the trend of price indexes and individual securities. They evaluate the position of the security or index.

The theory underlying these indicators is that once a trend is in motion it will continue in that direction. Technical analysis attempts to determine the strength of the trend and the direction of the trend. The technical analyst will attempt to identify the trend or the change in trend early. The technical analyst will also use his analysis to stay away from a market or a security unless there is a good amount of protection in place.
Price, time, volume, and breadth are inputs into these indicators. Price reflects the level of change in investors’ attitudes. Time measures the cycle or period of change. For example, the longer it takes to move the market from a bearish to a bullish position, the stronger this reverse in direction will be. Volume measures the intensity of the change in investors’ attitudes. A security, which moves up on very low volume is not as stable as a security, which moves up on high volume. And remember that volume is relative. Volume should always be measured against the volume that individual security or index typically demonstrates. Breadth measures, how many different securities in the same market are moving in the same direction? The more significant a trend is, the greater the number of securities involved in the move will be. For example, a trend, which is limited to blue chip stocks or tech stocks, is not as significant as if a wide array of sectors and stocks are involved.

A technical analysis indicator is used to determine the trend of a market, the strength of the market and the direction of the market. A technical analysis indicator may be specific or non-specific. Some technical analysis indicators can be quantified in the form of an equation or algorithm. Others show up as patterns (e.g. head and shoulders, trendlines, support and resistance).

Of the hundreds of technical analysis indicators, one of the most commonly used and most reliable indicator is the Relative Strength Index (RSI).

The RSI is a momentum indicator, which measures an equity's price relative to itself. It is relative to its past performance. It is also front weighted. Therefore, it gives a better velocity reading than other indicators. RSI is less affected by sharp rises or drops in an equity's price performance. Thus, it filters out some of the 'noise' in a security's trading activity.

RSI's absolute levels are 0 and 100. Traditionally, buy signals are triggered at 30, and sell signals are triggered at 70. However, many analysts are now using 20 for buy signals and 80 for sell signals. So when the RSI is below 30 (or 20), analysts say that the stock is oversold. When the RSI goes above 70 (or 80), they say that the stock is overbought. When a stock has reached its oversold level, the price will go up because of “bargain hunters.” When it reaches its overbought level, the price will go down because of “profit-taking” or sometimes called “correction.” It’s called profit-taking because investors who bought a few days ago will sell their shares, because they know that the price will go down.


A2: My clients monitor their stocks through technistock.com. You can find the graphs of all issues here, as well as four (4) technical analysis indicators (the Moving Average Convergence Divergence or MACD Oscillator, the Wilder's Directional Movement Indicator or DMI Spread, the Relative Strength Index or RSI, and the Stochastics. These technical analysis tools are the most commonly used and the most accurate.


A3: When a company declares or issues dividends, they also give an Ex-cash date. Shareholders who own stocks on the ex-cash date are the only ones entitled for dividends.


A4: After the ex-cash date, you can sell your shares and still be entitled for dividends. Those shareholders who are entitled for dividends should wait for the release date or “date payable.” It is in the date payable where those entitled to dividends can collect their cash dividends.


matbike

The opening price is the first price of the stock at the start of the trading day. On the pre-open period (9:00 – 9:30), investors will post their buying and asking prices. When the market opens (at 9:30), those buying and asking prices that match will automatically be traded and that price will be the opening price. If after the opening bell and the buying and asking prices don’t meet, the very first transaction (buy up, sell down, or cross-transaction) will be the opening price.

[quarklion]

Whoooahh! Thanks richyuppie, I feel like an Investor.
Q1: Do you know website that we could find a real-time stock ticker or alike for PSE? CitisecOnline.com is one of them but are there other sites who can post it better?

Q2: How can I invest in S&P 500 using internet?


Q3: What is the normal return of Pxx.00 (in %) investment in Phil Market if the stocks prices are normally behaved and the stocks are managed correctly?

[GOwin]

Originally posted by quarklion
Q3: What is the normal return of Pxx.00 (in %) investment in Phil Market if the stocks prices are normally behaved and the stocks are managed correctly?

yes. i'm interested in knowing this one too.

kung conservative yung investor/broker, pati kung agressive (adventurous?) naman sila :)

[matbike]

Originally posted by richyuppie
matbike

The opening price is the first price of the stock at the start of the trading day. On the pre-open period (9:00 – 9:30), investors will post their buying and asking prices. When the market opens (at 9:30), those buying and asking prices that match will automatically be traded and that price will be the opening price. If after the opening bell and the buying and asking prices don’t meet, the very first transaction (buy up, sell down, or cross-transaction) will be the opening price.

Thanks.

[richyuppie]

A1: My clients monitor their accounts through www.technistock.com. I also visit the site everyday.

A2: Honestly, I really don’t know. I know there are sites where you can do online trading, but I don’t recommend it for reasons I can’t explain very well. Also, I’m not that into foreign stocks, except for their indexes.

A3: Investing in the stock market doesn’t guarantee profits. Timing is key to profits in the stock market. Investing at the right time would most of the time bring profits, and investing at the wrong time would most of the time bring losses. Those who invested in 1993, 1995, 1996, and 1999 (where the market was very good) became overnight millionaires. While those who invested in the second half of 1997 up to 1998 saw their millions get burned. There is no exact figure to estimate the returns or losses, but the most probable method of getting this figure is to check the rate of change of the PHISIX (or the Philippine Stock Exchange Composite Index) for a certain time frame.

Indeed!

[richyuppie]

MOREOVER for Q3 (What is the normal return of Pxx.00 (in %) investment in Phil Market if the stocks prices are normally behaved and the stocks are managed correctly?):

The PHISIX is subdivided into sector components. They are: Banks and Financial Services (PFIN), Commercial and Industrial (PCOM), Property (PPRP), Mining (PMIN), Oil (POIL), Small and Medium Enterprises (PSME), and the All Shares Index (PALL). In some instances, these sectors contradict each other, I mean sometimes (not all the time), they are indirectly proportional to one another. After the September 11 attacks, the biggest losers were the insurance companies (under Banking and Financial Services). All the others also went down except the Mining sector (in whom we call “takbuhan ng mga duwag”). The speculative stocks (most oil and mining companies) are usually the “safe haven” of investors when they know that the market will crash.

Like I said, investing in the stock market doesn’t guarantee profits. You and/or your broker have to be smart. If you invested in Stock A and its share price increased 50% in a week, it is advisable to sell it because its not a guarantee that it will sustain that increase every week, and most probably the stock will have a pullback or a correction. As I said in a previous post, there are methods in choosing the right company to invest. After Stock A’s price went up 50% in one week, check out its RSI. Most probably, it’s in its overbought level, and the price will go down.

Another thing about the stock market is knowing the limitations and be not too greedy. As my example in the previous paragraph, Stock A will NOT increase its share price by 50% every week. Greed and stubbornness would tell you not to sell it. But in the long run, you’ll notice that you’re just wasting time on this stock, because other stocks are rising, while Stock A is correcting.

Losses are NORMAL in the stock market. You should not be upset if the stock you invested is not increasing. However, there are methods to limit your losses. One of them is the buyback method. For example, you bought Stock B at P1.00. Stock B went down, and you know it will fall further. So it’s better to sell Stock B let’s say at P0.80 and buy it again at P0.60. Another method is lowering down your average. If you bought 1,000 shares of Stock C at P50, and it went down to P30, then buy another 1,000 shares @ P30, thus lowering down your average at P40. It’s like buying 2,000 shares @ P40 and it’s easier to break even, rather than waiting for Stock C to rise above P50 again.

Discipline and patience are essential to investors to profit in the market, while stubbornness and greedyness are big no-nos. I know a lot of people who lost big in the market. However, they wouldn’t listen to me, nor to any other “veterans” of the market. For instance this friend of mine who bought 20,000 shares of ABS @ P60. ABS went down as low as P22.50. I kept on telling her to lower down her average or just sell it and invest on a moving stock. She didn’t listen to me, and she’ll rather wait for it to go above P60. For two months, ABS remained at the P23 – P25 level, but for the last two weeks, it finally moved. Surprisingly, she got tired of waiting and decided to sell it last Tuesday at P27.50. Yesterday, ABS closed at P31.50 (as far I remember).

Also, it is advisable to diversify you portfolio or your account to at least 3 stocks or issues, rather than pouring it all in one stock. With this, profits are easier and faster. For example, you invested all of your money in Stock X. Stock X did not move for a week, and you became impatient and sold it. The moment you sold it, it increased! On the contrary, If you invested in Stock X, Y, and Z, and Stock X did not move while Stocks Y and Z increased, then you can sell Stocks Y and Z later while your still waiting for Stock X to move. See the difference?

There are values and virtues needed in investing in the stock market. Even though the main reason why we invest in the market is to earn, not having these virtues and values would result the other way around. Just listen and keep an open mind.

Indeed!

[quarklion]

thanks richyuppie,
Q1 : You said earlier, "A stock who opened with a market value of Php 1.00 cannot close at Php 6.00, unless its a warrant stock."
What is a warrant stock?

[richyuppie]

Actually, warrants are not stocks, but are also traded in the Philippine Stock Exchange. A warrant is issued by a company that is planning on issuing stocks or additional stocks soon. The warrant gives you the right to buy stocks at a certain price. It has an expiration date; where in holders of these warrant can exchange or convert it at that date to common stocks. It has no ceiling and floor price, therefore, are very volatile and unpredictable.

Indeed!

[quarklion]

richyuppie,
Please check your PM.

[matbike]

Thanks richyuppie for taking time to answer our questions.

Q: Does it make sense to have more than one broker?

Thanks again :)

[richyuppie]

A: Hove more than one broker is both advantageous and disadvantageous. A lot of businessmen, particularly big time businessmen, have more than one broker. Dante Tan used a lot of brokers when he did the manipulation of BW Resources back in 1999. It is advantageous because you can get a lot of opinions on what to buy and sell. It is disadvantageous because your brokers might have different and conflicting opinions.

Indeed!

[richyuppie]

THE STOCK MARKET IS ABOUT PEOPLE AND EMOTIONS
EMOTIONS CREATE A TREND
BULLISH TREND IS CREATED BY HOPES, OPTIMISM, AND GREED
BEARISH TREND IS CREATED BY FRUSTRATION, PESSIMISM, AND FEAR
TRENDS ARE REGISTERED IN PRICE MOVEMENTS
TRENDS REPEAT AND RECUR BUT IN DIFFERENT MANNERS
TRENDS REVERSE AS EMOTIONS CHANGE

[richyuppie]

For matbike:


Formula For the Relative Strength Index (RSI)

RSI equals the average of the closes of the up days divided by the average of the closes of the down days. The time frame specified determines the volatility of the indicator. For instance, a nine-day time period under study will be more volatile than a 21-day time span.

For a 22-day RSI calculation, the following are the steps involved.

Add the closing values for the up days and divide this total by 22.

Add the closing values for the down days and divide this total by 22.

Divide the up day average by the down day average. This results in the RS factor in the formula.

Add 1 to the RS.

Divide 100 by the number arrived at in step 4 above.

Subtract the number arrived at in step 5 above from 100.

Repeat steps 1-6 for day number 23. Drop day number 1 from the calculation. As enough days are accumulated, the results can be plotted in graphical format.

[richyuppie]

Kinds of Stocks:

Preferred Stocks (Am. = Br. preference shares)
– These are corporation shares that have the first priority on the distribution of assets and on the payment of a fixed dividend rate.

Common Stocks (Am. = Br. ordinary shares)
– These are corporation shares that have rights to assets and dividends, dependent upon the claims of preferred stock.
– They carry voting rights and can attend stockholders meetings.
– They are issued first by the company before preferred stocks.

[jayzen]

Guys and Gals tanong ko lang...what is the difference between stocks and bonds? And if you were to invest, which would you prefer and y? And if ever you are to invest on either one of them what should a beginner take note of?

Thanks for the help in advance :)!

[richyuppie]

jayzen, honestly, I’m not really an expert in bonds. Anyway, you can check out these threads:

· Investment in T-Bills (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=41139&highlight=bonds)

· Where to invest money today? (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=10095&highlight=bonds)

· Mutual Funds (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=27972&highlight=bonds)

Between the two, I prefer stocks because it’s more volatile, has more choices, and it’s easier to establish trends. As a beginner in stocks, you just first take note of the stock listings that appear in your daily newspaper. Pick some stocks and see their market value change everyday. Also, if you took some accounting units back in college, try to recall what you learned about stocks.

Indeed!

[Hulk]

Originally posted by jayzen
Guys and Gals tanong ko lang...what is the difference between stocks and bonds? And if you were to invest, which would you prefer and y? And if ever you are to invest on either one of them what should a beginner take note of?

Thanks for the help in advance :)!

Pareng jayzen naman, pwede mo naman akong tanungin e lagi naman tayong nagkikita e.

Well stocks is a representation of ownership sa isang company while bonds are obligations or liabilities. Sa balance sheet ng issuer yung stocks nasa stockholder's equity, yung bonds nasa liabilities.

There are basically two types of bonds as to the issuer, they are government securities which are direct obligations of the national government and commercial papers which are registered direct obligations of corporations.

Government Securities(GS)
-Treasury Bills (Tbills)
o with maturities of 1 year or less
o zero coupon & computed using the true discount method
-Fixed Rate Treasury Notes (FXTNs)
o with maturities more than 1 year (2, 5, 7, 10 or 20 yrs.)
o w/coupon payable semi-annually

Commercial Papers (CPs)
-Short-term Commercial Papers (STCPs)
o with maturities of 1 year or less
o zero coupon & computed using the true discount method
-Long-term Commercial Papers (LTCPs)
o with maturities more than 1 year
o w/coupon payable semi-annually but coupons are usually
not fixed but are floaters

The difference between GS and CPs is the credit risk. With GS (peso denominated) it is almost non-existent because government could always print money to pay you, while corporations could always default.

The way to make money in bonds is to have a reading on where interest rates are going. If interest rates are going down you should buy longer-dated securities, and if they're going up, you should buy shorter-dated ones.

I disagree with richyuppie when he said that stock prices were more volatile, bond prices are volatile. A 1% change in interest rate could cost you tens of millions in trading losses if you're in the wrong part of the yield curve. The only drawback it has compared to stocks is the enormity of volume you have to move in order to make serious money.

For us normal guys (non-billionaire types), the usual way to make money from it is to actually hold the bond until maturity. Of course to maximize your money you should enter the market when interest rates are high. It is quite useless right now to invest in bonds since interest rates are low.

Here are other investment vehicles that give you the benefit of owning bonds and/or other fixed-income instruments:

1. Small-Denominated Treasury Notes (SDTs) - this are in lots of P 5,000. This program was iniated to help smaller investors to have access to the bond market. Former National Treasurer Briones stressed that before this was launched, her salary as a UP Professor was not sufficient to purchase such instruments, but now she can. You can buy these securities from Landbank.

2. Common trust funds (CTFs) - the purpose of CTFs is to pool funds of small investors and have them enjoy the benefits of a larger portfolio. They are relatively safe, depending on the investment type, and considerably liquid. Some CTFs have minimum investment lots of P 10,000.

3. Mutual funds - it's still kind of new here but it likewise has the same principles as a CTF. There are two types of Mutual Funds. There are open-ended and close ended. Open ended is that the fund could continually grow by adding more investors while close ended ones are listed in the PSE and traded like stocks.

4. Guaranteed Investment Funds (GIFs) - this is what insurance and pre-need people continually sell you. It's still an investment and it allows you to tailor it to your own cashflows since you could dictate on what plan you want. Educational plans, especially inflation-protected ones are actually GREAT investments. Good luck in finding one (inflation-protected)though. You should also take good care in choosing your counter-parties since pre-need companies, unlike insurance companies are merely regulated by the SEC (who have a lot of other functions), instead of a specific body like the Insurance Commission.

Hope that helps. :D


:frank:

[richyuppie]

Thanks Hulk. I also learned a lot from you. I told you guys I’m no expert in bonds. Anyway, just to add on Small-Denominated Treasury Notes (SDTs), SDT0704 (an SDT whose maturity date is on July 2004) is publicly listed at the Philippine Stock Exchange. You can buy SDT0704 from any PSE accredited brokerage house or through its agents and brokers.

Indeed!

[Hulk]

Originally posted by richyuppie
Thanks Hulk. I also learned a lot from you. I told you guys I’m no expert in bonds. Anyway, just to add on Small-Denominated Treasury Notes (SDTs), SDT0704 (an SDT whose maturity date is on July 2004) is publicly listed at the Philippine Stock Exchange. You can buy SDT0704 from any PSE accredited brokerage house or through its agents and brokers.

Indeed!

So natuloy rin pala siya. I have been out of the market for a year now, and hindi ko na naabutan yung listing nito. How's it doing by the way? :mconfused:

I was always wondering how stockmarket-types would receive it. I remember giving a lecture on it, to a stockbroker (nakalimutan ko na yung name nung company) when it was first unveiled by the BTR. Iba talagang mag-isip yung mga stock-market guys from the fixed-income guys. :D

By the way ilang years ka na sa Stock Market? Dami mo na kasing alam e.


:frank:

[richyuppie]

Originally posted by Hulk

By the way ilang years ka na sa Stock Market? Dami mo na kasing alam e.
Honestly, around three months(!). However, I was already reading NYSE trading books even before I applied as a trader, that’s why I’m familiar with the stock market. I just waited for the right time to enter the market. Actually, at that time, the brokerage house that I’ve entered only entertains experienced traders. However, when they interviewed me, I told them what I’ve been reading and what I know about the market and trading. I was the only unexperienced applicant that was accepted as a trader for this Security firm. I never had any training as a trader (for it was never part of the plan because as I said, they will only entertain traders with experience). But of course, I still listen to the “elders” or the “veterans” of the market for their advice and tips, but I already have my own personal technique on what to buy and sell that works well for me.

Indeed!

[Hulk]

Originally posted by richyuppie

Honestly, around three months(!). However, I was already reading NYSE trading books even before I applied as a trader, that’s why I’m familiar with the stock market. I just waited for the right time to enter the market. Actually, at that time, the brokerage house that I’ve entered only entertains experienced traders. However, when they interviewed me, I told them what I’ve been reading and what I know about the market and trading. I was the only unexperienced applicant that was accepted as a trader for this Security firm. I never had any training as a trader (for it was never part of the plan because as I said, they will only entertain traders with experience). But of course, I still listen to the “elders” or the “veterans” of the market for their advice and tips, but I already have my own personal technique on what to buy and sell that works well for me.

Indeed!

Why don't you take the CFA exam madami kang matutunan dun, tataas pa ang market value mo kaagad.


:frank:

[richyuppie]

Hulk, the SEC hasn’t had any licensure exams for almost one and a half years now. But I do heard that they will have one this year.

Indeed!

[Hulk]

Originally posted by richyuppie
Hulk, the SEC hasn’t had any licensure exams for almost one and a half years now. But I do heard that they will have one this year.

Indeed!

The CFA is different from the Certified Securities Representative (CSR) exam given by the SEC. The CFA charter is the world-recognized designation for investment professionals. Three levels of exams siya so it won't hurt to start early.

Talaga, ganun na katagal di nagbibigay yung SEC ng exam. Dati kasi malaking issue iyon. Yung isang friend ko nga nadiyaryo kasi nag-trade siya ng di kumukuha ng exam. :D



:frank:

[jayzen]

Sorry Hulk ha na post ko na kasi bago ko na isip na andyan ka pala :)!

Thanks nga for the info. Hulk and richyuppie !

[Spyfrat]

meron po ba ditong gumagamit nang wege theory sa technicals nila? im fascinated kasi, if meron, may ma recommend ba kayong readings (kahit na d ko gawain ang pagbabasa hehe kung tungkol sa wedge theory babasahin ko..naks). tia

at/nasdaq2002 (http://www.geocities.com/spyfrat/nasdaq2002.html)

[richyuppie]

Spyfrat, I have encountered that Wedge Theory before when I did a private reading on the book entitled “The A to Z’s of Technical Analysis” at Powerbooks. Try to look for it at Powerbooks or maybe just search it on the Internet. I’ll try to check it out and observe it too myself one of these days. Anyway, what’s the rate of effectiveness of this Wedge Theory?

[Spyfrat]

thanks Rich, somebody told me as well yung book ni Bill Murphy maganda rin daw. Sadly, dito sa Iloilo limited ang mga ganitong books, sa internet may nakita na ako. It's the work of Judy Sawyer na medyo interesado ako. Actually tagal na ang wedges at triangle, gusto ko lang e explore yung wedge using the gaps, yun ang iniexperimentohan ko ngayon. Medyo effective sya kung tama yung trendlines, problema lang paano mo makikita bago mag occur. Sa chart na to http://www.geocities.com./spyfrat/nas212002.html
i'm using the fundamental wedge (thanks to ennui of ids forum for the idea) which is 5 waves (with gaps). testing lang kung tama. For educational purpose only kung effective. By the way, this theory predicts the period when is the next short term bottom or top. Kung baga when and not where (or at what level the short term bottom/top is). Example it will predict, tomorrow is the bottom for the nasdaq but it can't predict at what level it is so. I plan to augment it kasi sa channels na ginagamit ko.

[sam7268]

hello, spyfrat. what's this wedge theory? how new is it? variation ba 'to ng elliot wave? sorry, i've been out of the market for so long wala na 'kong alam. hehehe. dami pa rin pala interested sa stock market, 'no?

[sam7268]

padagdag lang:

about brokers trading for their own account: well, the sec did implement a rule before forbidding brokers to trade for their own account. a lot of people got mad over that, i guess that's why it's gone now. :)

the sec hasn't had a csr exam in 1-1/2 years?! well, there are of licensed brokers around, what with the closure of the foreign houses.

about commission rates: brokers can charge a maximum rate of 1.5% of the gross amount of the transaction. as far as i know, commission rates now are pretty low, and even small transactions enjoy 0.5%-0.75% commission rates. however, a lot of brokers charge a minimum fee for their commission. this means that you will be charged this minimum fee even if your commission rate multiplied by the gross amount of your transaction goes below this figure. i believe the average is P200-P250, but there are some which charge only P150. meron pa nga, less than P100. richyuppie, your minimum is P225, right?

now, as spyfrat and richyuppie said, you can invest less than ten thousand in the stockmarket. just remember to plug in the selling costs as well when you are thinking of liquidating. baka naman any gains you've made will be wiped out by the selling costs. if your investment is small, then i suggest you stay with the blue chips and hold them for quite a while.

spy, balitaan mo nga 'ko dito sa wedge theory na 'to. malay mo, i can help you in your search for a book. i just have to know what i'm looking for first. :D

[GOwin]

I saw a Small Investors Program application for Salcon Power Corp from today's Philippines Star (p. 24, Biz section).

What do you think about it?

Hulk, you're into this pala? Pwede ba konsulta bukas after the game ;) I don't have any experience in this eh.

[Hulk]

Originally posted by GOwin
I saw a Small Investors Program application for Salcon Power Corp from today's Philippines Star (p. 24, Biz section).

What do you think about it?

Hulk, you're into this pala? Pwede ba konsulta bukas after the game ;) I don't have any experience in this eh.

Sure, but my specialties really are fixed-income instruments, trust funds and currencies. Regarding local stock investments, I would defer to richyuppie and spyfrat, they seem to know what they're talking about since they're directly more involved in this field. Medyo matagal na kasi akong wala sa market.


:frank:

[GOwin]

See you later guys.

Hulk, mamaya consult ako sa 'yo ;)

[TrashBox]

what can you say about Metrobank's MetroCapital Fund?

As i understand it, you deposit your money in the fund just like an ordinary bank account. Metrobank's fund managers/professionals then invest the pooled money into the stock market giving the individual depositors stock market-earnings (and risks?).

the positive thing is, you as an ordinary individual depositor doesn't have to know about the stock market and its trends, downtimes, uptimes, etc. you do not have to research for all the nitty gritty of stock market investing since the Metrobank's fund managers do the dirty work for you. you can just watch your earnings grow (so to speak).

is this ok?

[Hulk]

Are they a 100% equity fund? If they are then they are subject to the same risks as that of the stock market. Your investment performance is only as good as the market and the investment professionals managing it. If you want to judge their performance, one basic measure is comparing their performance with that of an index (i.e. Phisix) depending on the investment style they are using.


:frank:

[richyuppie]

Originally posted by Hulk
So natuloy rin pala siya. I have been out of the market for a year now, and hindi ko na naabutan yung listing nito. How's it doing by the way?

I was always wondering how stockmarket-types would receive it. I remember giving a lecture on it, to a stockbroker (nakalimutan ko na yung name nung company) when it was first unveiled by the BTR. Iba talagang mag-isip yung mga stock-market guys from the fixed-income guys.
SDT0704 is not really that active in the PSE. Why? Because, no one wants to sell! There are lots of posting for buyers, but sellers rarely sell. Its coupon rate,13.625(?)%, is very high, and only Landbank is selling these bonds while Banco de Oro refuses to sell them. One of our clients is buying at 100 (it went high as 102) for almost a week now, but has yet to get one. Moreover, the trading of these SDTs is only until 11AM.



Originally posted by spyfrat
thanks Rich, somebody told me as well yung book ni Bill Murphy maganda rin daw. Sadly, dito sa Iloilo limited ang mga ganitong books, sa internet may nakita na ako. It's the work of Judy Sawyer na medyo interesado ako. Actually tagal na ang wedges at triangle, gusto ko lang e explore yung wedge using the gaps, yun ang iniexperimentohan ko ngayon. Medyo effective sya kung tama yung trendlines, problema lang paano mo makikita bago mag occur. Sa chart na to http://www.geocities.com./spyfrat/nas212002.html
i'm using the fundamental wedge (thanks to ennui of ids forum for the idea) which is 5 waves (with gaps). testing lang kung tama. For educational purpose only kung effective. By the way, this theory predicts the period when is the next short term bottom or top. Kung baga when and not where (or at what level the short term bottom/top is). Example it will predict, tomorrow is the bottom for the nasdaq but it can't predict at what level it is so. I plan to augment it kasi sa channels na ginagamit ko.
Can you share here how you could determine those bottom and tops? All I know about wedges are the trendlines of these wedges. If it breaks the resistance, it’s breakout, and if it breaks the support, it’s breakdown. I also have my own theory/formula on where these breakout and breakdown prices will stop and reverse, which I learned from Fibbonacci. Also, does the formula that you use for wedges apply also for flags, triangles, channels, and pennants?

Anyway, what do you think of Ayala Corporation (AC) right now? It has [finally] broken its P6.40 wedge resistance yesterday. At what price do you think its heading? I think Morgan Stanley Capital Index weighed this issue high. I think it would go up to at least P7.00.



Originally posted by sam7268
about commission rates: brokers can charge a maximum rate of 1.5% of the gross amount of the transaction. as far as i know, commission rates now are pretty low, and even small transactions enjoy 0.5%-0.75% commission rates. however, a lot of brokers charge a minimum fee for their commission. this means that you will be charged this minimum fee even if your commission rate multiplied by the gross amount of your transaction goes below this figure. i believe the average is P200-P250, but there are some which charge only P150. meron pa nga, less than P100. richyuppie, your minimum is P225, right?
In our brokerage house, the minimum commission rate used to be P45. They increased it this April to P100. The minimum of P225 I think is the maximum minimum commission rate that is allowed by the SEC. Brokerage houses do have their own minimum commission rates, but it can’t go beyond P225.



Originally posted by TrashBox
what can you say about Metrobank's MetroCapital Fund?

As i understand it, you deposit your money in the fund just like an ordinary bank account. Metrobank's fund managers/professionals then invest the pooled money into the stock market giving the individual depositors stock market-earnings (and risks?).

the positive thing is, you as an ordinary individual depositor doesn't have to know about the stock market and its trends, downtimes, uptimes, etc. you do not have to research for all the nitty gritty of stock market investing since the Metrobank's fund managers do the dirty work for you. you can just watch your earnings grow (so to speak).

is this ok?
Is this the First Metro Invest Corporation? Just asking.



Indeed!

[Hulk]

Originally posted by richyuppie

SDT0704 is not really that active in the PSE. Why? Because, no one wants to sell! There are lots of posting for buyers, but sellers rarely sell. Its coupon rate,13.625(?)%, is very high, and only Landbank is selling these bonds while Banco de Oro refuses to sell them. One of our clients is buying at 100 (it went high as 102) for almost a week now, but has yet to get one. Moreover, the trading of these SDTs is only until 11AM.




In that case misspriced or off-market yung bids sa PSE. I am sure you can readily buy it sa mga treasury desks ng banks at a lower yield to maturity (YTM) of course. Nobody would really sell it at 100 kasi interest rates have really gone down since it was issued, so it should sell for a high premium.

Imagine at 102, for every P100 MM/lot you make P2 MM. That's how we make money sa fixed-income. Bonanza talaga when interest rates go down, tapos pahirapan pag pataas. :D


:frank:

[Spyfrat]

cge try ko ac ilagay sa site mamaya :)
ang probs kasi sa msci na yan is that kung tapos na yung buy orders nang fund managers, wala nang magtutulak sa stock. kung baga panandaliang kaligayahan lamang :glee: :glee: :glee:
http://www.geocities.com/spyfrat

[richyuppie]

spyfrat, you didn't answer my questions. Share us naman your technical secrets, hehehe


Can you share here how you could determine those bottom and tops? All I know about wedges are the trendlines of these wedges. If it breaks the resistance, it’s breakout, and if it breaks the support, it’s breakdown. I also have my own theory/formula on where these breakout and breakdown prices will stop and reverse, which I learned from Fibbonacci. Also, does the formula that you use for wedges apply also for flags, triangles, channels, and pennants?
Also, Ayala Corporation (AC) didn't breakout as I expected because of the General Santos City bombings.

Indeed!

[Spyfrat]

richboss, experimental pa tong wedge theory. kasi iniisip ko most chartist are using the same conventional indicators like rsi, macd, mga ganun ba. so bali kung market maker ka, u can trick these guys by faking breakouts/breakdowns or oversold/overbought indicators by placing cross selling volumes. that's the reason why most 1st attempt breakouts or breakdown failed, kasi lahat sumasabay sa flow (emotionally driven).
ang importante lang sa is that each stock has each on indicator, yung kay ict kay ict, yung kay bpi kay bpi. most traders i know kung ano yung meron dun sa metastock nila, yun lang ang ginagamit. explore what the best indicators for different issues kung baga. kasi mangyari nun is that "money flow" can be a good indicator sa kay MBT pero palpak sya sa EBC. kung baga, may kanya kanyang nababagay na indicator sa kanila.
back in 92, using "on-brokers" analysis proved to be fruitful, until 2000. lately dami nang tumitingin kung sino ang buy o sell. meaning nyan kung nakikita nilang lumalabas na yung isang broker na nakabili nang malaking shares dati, umiiwas na yung traders. so yung "on-brokers" analysis dati na magandang indicator nagiging worthless na (at some stocks).

right now i cannot really say how to spot a wedge coz i myself dont know how to explain hehe, basta nakikita ko na lang kung tingnan ko yung charts. kasi kung may formula yung wedge, it would not suit for any individual stocks ksi each stocks is very much diffrent from each other.

what i can share sa yo siguro is that back in 95, i used to make customized formulas sa metastock. there's this particular indicator OBV "on balance volume" na ni reverse ko. its a kind of indicator na parang ignored sya nang mga traders. probably palpak na indicator hehe. so i reverse the formula on OBV. maybe if u have time sa metastock, u can reverse the formula nang OBV and try it :)

simple lang ang signals dun, bali once mag cross yung indicator sa price, yun na.

hope this helps.

[bluescreen76]

it's quite nice to have read and learned about stocks, but i'm not into it. i'm pretty sure you have read about Multitel (Multinational Telecoms Investor's Corp.)? they offer as much as 4% per month on your money. interested? contact me: bluescreen76@hotmail.com :)

[Hulk]

Originally posted by bluescreen76
it's quite nice to have read and learned about stocks, but i'm not into it. i'm pretty sure you have read about Multitel (Multinational Telecoms Investor's Corp.)? they offer as much as 4% per month on your money. interested? contact me: bluescreen76@hotmail.com :)

Question lang dude. Na-lift na ba yung suspension order ng SEC last year on Mulitel accepting money from investors? :mconfused:


:frank:

[richyuppie]

spyfrat, I saw your webpage linked to www.tsupitero.com . Naks, idol! hehehe.

Anyway, you are right that some techicals are only applicable to certain issues, particularly, the Fibonacci time studies. Also, can you include the following issues on your website: TEL, GLO, JFC, MBT, PCOR, ISM, MEG, ALI, SMPH, PNB, CYBR, PLTL, DGTL, ABSP, AEV, JGS, UBP, RFM, MPC, ION, and MUSX? Hehehe.

Indeed!

[Spyfrat]

richdude dami naman hehe, try ko lagay one at a time if i have time :)

pinilit ko lang si miko na ilagay yung site ko sa links nya :glee:

[Spyfrat]

added ISM sa site. whewww yan lang muna richdude, mahina ang kalaban :glee:

[richyuppie]

Yes!!! ISM is one of my favorite issues. Thanls, Spyfrat.

Indeed!

[yvettta]

i know only little things about stocks and investing but i want to try my luck here with my small savings, actually the small money would come from another investment, that is from multitel. i read from panorama (of MB) that they are accepting stockholders and one can directly contact the pse center about how to do it. is MB ok to invest with? the long-term is ok for me, i want to try jfc but i don't know how to invest with them.

[Spyfrat]

hehe *** a coincidence.. kakareco ko lang MB as one stock for long term investment (i'm against long term investment ** sa pinas equity market though, pero kung may nagpupumilit, MB is one stock i would like to reco)
here's the link.....
http://www.philstocks.net/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000323.html

but i frequent here more often:
http://pub45.ezboard.com/bphisix

Dividend History of MB

1994 0.5 Cash 21-Feb1994
1994 0.25 Cash 10-Oct1994
1994 0.25 Cash 23-Dec1994
1996 100% Stock 16-Jan1996
1996 0.5 Cash 11-Sep1996
1997 0.25 Cash 05-Feb1997
1997 0.25 Cash 11-Aug1997
1998 0.25 Cash 20-Apr1998
1998 29.89% Stock 02-Oct1998
1999 0.25 Cash 09-Jul1999
1999 0.2511 Cash 21-Jan-2000
2000 41.317738% Stock 15-Sep-2000
2000 0.086823 Cash 19-Dec-2000
2001 12.5% Stock 17-Aug-2001
2002 0.075 Cash 28-Jan-2002

Yung Centro Escolar University (CEU) hanep rin magbigay nang cash div.

[yvettta]

so you mean ok sa MB? hhmmm... i jus don't know kung ano ang una kong gagawin :( should i just contact them directly?
thanks :)

[Spyfrat]

wats ur time horizon? ilang years? u can contact them directly and ask for a broker or sa pse (http://www.pse.org.ph) na directly. meron mga lists nang mga brokers dun.

[yvettta]

short term siguro muna, or would u recommend long term? thanks ha, tawag na lan din ako siguro tom..

[Spyfrat]

kung short term nd pwede yung MB kasi illiquid. pang looong term lang talaga yan. sa short ter, wait ako sa index to go to around or near 1230's level for some serious position. may basic knowledge ka sa stock market?

[yvettta]

how many yrs ba pag long term? eh pag short term?
wala akong alam bout stock market, ngayon ko pa nga lan inaalam by reading your posts here, kaya lang yung iba di ko pa maintindihan.. :mconfused:

[Spyfrat]

sa pse site meron dun STock Market Investing, i think it's a good read for newbies. :)
long term for me is 3 months & upwards. im a short term player kasi. for me long term is "ipit" stock, meaning you are holding long term kasi bumaba yung price. no offense meant though, iba lang pananaw ko sa equity market sa pinas. but ideally long term is around 5 years or more.

[richyuppie]

Cash Dividends?? Try City & Land Developers (LAND).

Indeed!

[richyuppie]

Hello yvettta!

Marcel a.k.a. spyfrat, 5 years? I think sobrang tagal na yun. But for me, long term is only one month. :)

Indeed!

[Spyfrat]

hehe yung 5 yrs para sa fundamentalist :) alam m onaman nd ako marunong nyan ;)
oi nd ak c marcel ha

[richyuppie]

spyfrat, then who's Marcel in your webpage? Anyway, just to mention, if you consider 5 years as long term, I did check out the prices of certain issues exactly 5 years ago, July 1997, the start of the Asian Financial Crisis. On its adjusted price (of stock dividends and stock splits), there are only a handful of issues who's current market price is higher than five years ago. AEV, LTDI, and WEB to name a few. Of course, its different if you invested back in the 80s.:)

Indeed!

[cybelle_9]

hi!

i'm glad i was able to find this thread because i really think the posts are very informative and unintimidating to a stock market dummy like me. i am not a finance major nor do i know a lot about the stock market. i'm currently gathering information about investing tips and techniques and posts from richyuppie, spyfrat, and hulk have been most informative.

i've been actually thinking of investing in stocks since last year. unfortunately i hadn't had enough knowledge and money (!!!) to get the ball rolling. this year, i still don't have money but i have been spending most of my free time gathering information about stocks, the PSE, and investing guides. or am i just being too much of a sigurista ?

there is this book i'm reading by tom and david garder, "The Motley Fool Investment Guide" which somehow initiates my plan of investing in stocks. however after reading a few chapters on it i see that some of their recommendations are contradictory to what has been posted here or they are just simply not applicable in our setting. for example, they mentioned that if people like me were to invest in stocks, i should consider buying stocks and holding on to it for at least 5 years. with this, i was quite surprised that your idea of a long term investment is 1-3 months :). are their concepts totally not applicable to our market?

i do hope that this thread would remain active and investment guide channels would open in the future.

[nance]

Hello cybelle_9,

I'm glad that you've "met" Tom and David :) I haven't read "TMF Investment Guide" but I'm a regular visitor (and a big fan) of the Gardners' web site The Motley Fool (TMF) (http://www.fool.com/). I strongly suggest that you visit the site to better appreciate the book and the Gardners' investing philosophy. TMF strongly believes in being long-term investors, while many of the recommendations in this thread apply to people who buy stocks for short-term gain. TMF refers to the latter type as "speculators".

While I am in no position to say which investing style is best, I do urge you to learn the differences between them so you can decide which pieces of investment advice (from TMF or from PEx threads) suit your personality.

Btw, here are some book recommendations for you:

The Top Investing Books of All Time (according to The Motley Fool)
http://www.fool.com/Specials/2000/sp001107a.htm?ref=SpAg

[nance]

More on The Motley Fool (http://www.fool.com/) investment philosophy...

Investing Isn't Rocket Science
http://www.fool.com/portfolios/rulemaker/2000/rulemaker000918.htm

Successful investing isn't rocket science. Here are 10 basic rules you don't need an MBA to master that will put you ahead of most investors. Start early, invest often, invest in companies, not stocks, and ignore get rich quick schemes.

By Tom Herman (THerman@Cinci.rr.com)
September 18, 2000

1. Timing the market doesn't work. If you try, eventually you will get burned. Rebounds usually happen quickly and if you're out of the market, you will miss out. Invest early, regularly, and for the long haul. If you happen to get very lucky and make some money trading a small portion of your money for fun, remember to leave the casino. The longer you stay, the more likely you will give your winnings back to the house. Also, be sure to ask yourself, "Is all the time I spend worrying about my stock trades the best investment of my time for my future?"

2. Buy companies, not stocks. Invest in what you know or what you use or what you believe to be a long-term trend. Look for companies which have great barriers to entry or whose products or services would be extremely costly to be replicated or replaced in the market.

3. Corrections happen! You can't live in fear of stock market crashes, because if you don't play, you don't win. The market has a "must be present to win" criterion. There will always be artificial reasons that someone will tell you why you should sell stocks and go to cash. Ignore it! The most money that has ever been lost in the stock market is that which sat on the sidelines because of fear.

4. Bigger is usually better. Dollar cost averaging into large, quality stocks is the recipe for compounding your money steadily into an eventual fortune. By saving just $2,000 each year for 30 years at the stock market's historical 11% annual return, you'll accumulate a nest egg of nearly $400,000. Be wary of speculating on some obscure company with "great potential." I trust Bill Gates with my money, and I realize he knows more than I do. Stick with the sure thing. Gambling is for Las Vegas, not your retirement.

5. Some diversity is good, but too much is bad. Forget mutual funds! They are outdated. During the 1990s, fully 90% of actively managed funds have underperformed the market averages, according to Lipper Analytical Services. You can diversify your stock portfolio by buying index tracking stocks, such as the S&P 500's Spiders (AMEX: SPY) or the Nasdaq Index 100 (AMEX: QQQ). This also lowers commissions and fees. Having too many stocks can be worse than too few. In addition to Spiders and QQQ's, I suggest picking no more than 10 of the best-known, best-run companies, with low debt, strong balance sheets, high demand, and great vision for the future. For more on how to find such companies, check out the Rule Maker Criteria.

6. Always buy the companies that people want to own when they get cheaper, because they usually never do! Expensive stocks are expensive for a good reason, so don't rule them out simply on that basis.

7. Sell reluctantly and don't panic. Corrections create opportunities. You wouldn't want to buy always at the market highs. All stocks eventually have a selloff period, regardless of how great an investment the company may be. It usually takes six months or so to reach a bottom (so give it time to get there). Be patient before you add more to your positions. Stocks are the one thing that no one buys when they go on sale. If you believe in the company, buy more when Wall Street has a fire sale or falls out of love with your company. But always reevaluate why a stock has become cheap. There may be a reason other than the typical emotional market whims. Be true to yourself and ask some tough questions. Compare this investment to others that are doing well in your portfolio. Where is the best place for your hard-earned money?

8. As you get older, it makes sense to lighten your load in equities. This is not because stocks are not a good long-term investment. They are. It is because a good investment takes time, and if you need the money in the next five years, you are better off if you don't have to wait even longer. Enjoy life in the meantime and don't fret about temporary market gyrations. Remember that a watched portfolio rarely grows. Avoid "scared" money. Be comfortable with your investment style and goals. High risk doesn't mean high returns -- it means high volatility. Can you stomach that? Ask yourself, "What if this stock drops 40%? Can I live with that? What would I do?" When you reach your goals, enjoy your money but contribute to society, otherwise you weren't a successful investor regardless of how much you made through the years.

9. The most important bill you have to pay each month is the one to yourself. Always pay yourself at least 10%. Let your money work for you. If you cannot save 10% of what you make (and you can because no matter how little you make, someone is making less), you are spinning your wheels.

10. There are no sure things or get-rich-quick strategies that work. If you know it, everyone knows it. "Gurus" abound, and they make a lot of money by selling two things: hype and fear. The best advice you get is in the mirror. Only you know why you buy what you buy when you buy. Listen to thyself!

[cybelle_9]

hi nance,

thanks for posting the info...yep i've been checking out their website every so often...i also found a "summarized" version of their investing basics in their Fool's School section. i still have to read through it though...actually i have a lot of things to read about before i really get going on buying stocks.

i've been looking for the one by Benjamin Graham at Powerbooks but i haven't had any luck yet. i've read the article you posted though and i totally agree with #9...during the last quarter of last year, i stopped "paying myself" but now i'm trying to save up for my future investments. i also plan to invest on a long term basis (3-5 years).

as i was reading through the book, i came up with questions that i hope you guys could shed light on. again, please bear with me because i am a complete dummy. when you say underperforming the market, does it mean that your stocks increased at a lower rate compared to the index? so when you say you beat the market, it means your stocks rose to a higher percentage than that of the others, correct?

i have a few more questions on how to interpret the data we see on charts and tables but i will research first before i post them here :)

have a great friday! :D

[Spyfrat]

las i heard tom & da vid r bz comforting their followers. is this true? daming genius sa bull market.

the thing with long term investing is that ur justifying your mistake, una palang kung mali ka na, dapat amend na. mamaya na lang ako reply hehe bc pa sa trading :)

[Spyfrat]

No offense meant. hangang number 4 pa lang nabasa ko sa post mo nance pero tumatayo na balahibo ko.

[cybelle_9]

las i heard tom & da vid r bz comforting their followers. is this true? daming genius sa bull market.

what do you mean Spyfrat? :)

i'm thinking of investing in FPH, BPI, or SMC....any input on these companies?

[Spyfrat]

Originally posted by cybelle_9
hi!

i am not a finance major nor do i know a lot about the stock market. <--- Im a master electrician and been trading stocks since 87.

['ve been actually thinking of investing in stocks since last year. unfortunately i hadn't had enough knowledge and money (!!!) to get the ball rolling. this year, i still don't have money but i have been spending most of my free time gathering information about stocks, the PSE, and investing guides. or am i just being too much of a sigurista ? <-- it took me 1 newspaper and a sutsot from a friend to invest in 87. i bot at high :glee: took me 1 yr of wishing & hoping to finally realized that i made a mistake :) sold the stock at a loss. its gud ur learning the basic of stock market investing. ok rin yung pagiging sigurista, kung nd pa handa why pasok pasok sa isang investment na d pa sure, however may set back akong nakikita na baka later on magiging emotional ang decision mo. investors kahit anong gurang na should be emotionally matured kapag ganitong klaseng investment ang papasukan. bka kasi kung bumaba stock mo, aawayin mo na si labs mo o pagagalitan mga vevis o d ka makakain o makaka2log. pagiging sigurista wag lang abusuhin kasi by the time na yung scenario mo malapit na, baka magiging hesitant ka na, kung baga pabago bago na yung outluk mo. dami ka nang itanong sa sarili mo. less complicated the better.

there is this book i'm reading by tom and david garder, "The Motley Fool Investment Guide" which somehow initiates my plan of investing in stocks. however after reading a few chapters on it i see that some of their recommendations are contradictory to what has been posted here or they are just simply not applicable in our setting. for example, they mentioned that if people like me were to invest in stocks, i should consider buying stocks and holding on to it for at least 5 years. with this, i was quite surprised that your idea of a long term investment is 1-3 months :). are their concepts totally not applicable to our market?<-- iniisip ko ksi how can we put into practice their teachings kung masyadong maliit na market lang tayo. b4 pldt is a gud invetsment for long term, korek, dahil sya lang naman ang nag iisa nun. mga ganun ba. konting kalaboso lang sa pamahalaan bagsak na tayo. scenarios such as the asian crisis, mga ganun bagay. so sayang yung tinubo mo kung nd ka marunong mag sell. i cant understand why investors would resort to long term investing if they can profit short term. para sa ipit lang yang long term. market is ruthless, it has no mercy. walang pakialam yan kung umiyak o mawalan ka nang bait. kung nd ka marunong mag cut loss dedo ka. dont wish, dont hope. dont buy and hold. buy and take profits. market is a 2 way street, nd iisang daan lang.
yung preferences nang bawat investors mag ka iba. short, med, long term definition depende kung anong type ka nang investors.
nd ko ma gets why buy & hold for 5 years? alam ba natin kung ano meron after 5 years? why wait that long? dahil ba naka jacpot si buffet nun? dahil ba sa mga example nila like intel, coke, ibm, apple, microsoft, ge, 3m at iba pa? walang example nang jgsummit? walang example nang pldt na kamakailan lang nag 10 yr low?
dunno iba lang ***** pananaw ko sa market :)
yoko mag hintay kasi hehe

[Hulk]

Originally posted by cybelle_9

as i was reading through the book, i came up with questions that i hope you guys could shed light on. again, please bear with me because i am a complete dummy. when you say underperforming the market, does it mean that your stocks increased at a lower rate compared to the index? so when you say you beat the market, it means your stocks rose to a higher percentage than that of the others, correct?


:D

Your interpretation is right. Of course underperform could also mean that your stocks lost more than what the index lost over a time period, and overperform could mean that your portfolio lost less money.


I also have to agree somewhat to nance's post regarding mutual funds vs. indices. After fees, commissions and taxes, studies show that only 5% of mutual funds actually outperform the index that best represents their investment style.


:frank:

[cybelle_9]

thanks Hulk and Spyfrat!!!

re: mutual funds bakit siya nag underperform? is it because solely of the fees or dahil sa iba ibang investments siya nilalagay?

Originally posted by Spyfrat

...ok rin yung pagiging sigurista, kung nd pa handa why pasok pasok sa isang investment na d pa sure, however may set back akong nakikita na baka later on magiging emotional ang decision mo. investors kahit anong gurang na should be emotionally matured kapag ganitong klaseng investment ang papasukan. bka kasi kung bumaba stock mo, aawayin mo na si labs mo o pagagalitan mga vevis o d ka makakain o makaka2log. pagiging sigurista wag lang abusuhin kasi by the time na yung scenario mo malapit na, baka magiging hesitant ka na, kung baga pabago bago na yung outluk mo. dami ka nang itanong sa sarili mo. less complicated the better. hahaha sana naman hindi mangyari yon...hmm actually wala lang talaga akong ma spare na pera ngayon hihihihi :bungi: pero anyway, i think hindi pa lang ako confident sa knowledge ko of the stock market. and i agree na dapat talaga emotionally ready na akong maging dukha or milyonarya and a big part of my emotions relies on my knowledge and confidence about something. hopefully within this year i'll be able to save enough to invest in stocks.

re: long term investing = 5 years
hmmm sa bagay i get your point...that means one also has to read a lot and really monitor the market...big task ahead of me :) pero i know i will reap the benefits if i do my homework....sa bagay iniisip ko nga din kasi baka naman in the long run, para ka lang naglagay sa bangko with all the ups and downs of your stock. thanks sa advice! are there any local books that can help me on this, or pwede na yung mga books na tulad ng kina Gardner, Graham, etc. just to get me started? i know i also have to rummage through the broadsheets and the web for more info...la lang, baka din kasi meron kayo ma refer...thanks ulit!

have a nice weekend!

[Hulk]

Originally posted by cybelle_9
thanks Hulk and Spyfrat!!!

re: mutual funds bakit siya nag underperform? is it because solely of the fees or dahil sa iba ibang investments siya nilalagay?


Let's be clear about one thing first, mutual funds in other countries have varying investment styles, it's their way of segmenting or locating their own niche in the market. Mutual funds strictly adhere to these investment styles.

Varying investment styles require varying indices to serve as benchmarks of their performance. That's why in the U.S. you have such indices like the DOW, the S&P 500, the NASDAQ and the Russell 3000.

Ok now that's disposed of, let's discuss the deficiencies of the two basic indexing strategies, namely, active and passive management.

Active management
1. Poor investment decisions - most active managers are overconfident, form irrational expectatons, and make unrealistic probability assessments. Simply put, they are also vulnerable to poor decisions.

2. Poor risk control - studies show that managers make statistically significant bets against the market. Betting against the market over extended periods is a sign of poor risk control, since the equities usually overperforms money market instruments.

3. High fees and expenses - high fees and commissions greatly contribute to the fund's underperformance. Statistics indicate that managers should outperform the S&P 500 by 145 basis points justto break even with the index. It takes a lot of stock selection skill to do this on a consistent basis.

Passive management
The reasons are a little tecnical and has everything to do with market efficiency. The normal basis for constructing portfolios for passive strategies is what we call the standard market beta. The market beta is likened to the correlation of the movement of a specific stock to the movement of the entire market. This statistic however is usually not a good explanation for security returns. The reason for this is due either to the inefficiency of the market and to the presence of certain anomalies that regularly appear in period of time.

The good thing about passive strategies is that it has less transactions costs than that of active strategies.


:frank:

[nance]

Originally posted by Spyfrat
No offense meant. hangang number 4 pa lang nabasa ko sa post mo nance pero tumatayo na balahibo ko.

No offense taken, Spyfrat. Alam mo, pag binabasa ko yung earlier recommendations sa thread na 'to, tumatayo rin ang balahibo ko. Hehe. Peace tayo, ha?

Like what I said before, kanya-kanyang investing style lang yan. Choose whatever style helps you sleep better at night.

[Spyfrat]

hehehe kahit ako tumatayo rin balahibo sa mga sinusulat ko ** :)
pero yung pagtayo nang balahibo ko e dun sa sinulat ni Tom Herman, sowee na generalize nang nasabi ko na post mo :)

[Spyfrat]

Originally posted by cybelle_9


what do you mean Spyfrat? :)

i'm thinking of investing in FPH, BPI, or SMC....any input on these companies?

ano time horizon mo bel? kasi kung long term sa smc ako.

[cybelle_9]

Originally posted by Spyfrat

ano time horizon mo bel? kasi kung long term sa smc ako.

good morning to all! :)

hey i was actually considering SMC! dati ko pa talagang minomonitor yon....hmm time frame, mga 3 years! :P maliit lang kasi budget e...

and kunwari nga i decide to get SMC, ilang shares ang ok kunin with all the additional costs considered? what's the minimum that you can advise? (hindi yung nakapost sa board lot:))

[Spyfrat]

usually ang kadalasang mali nang investors is that when they think na long term yung invetsment nila they disregard the price. bali iniisip nila since long term naman yung invetsment, buying a few peso less doesnt make a difference. kako 3-5 years from now raw mag double yan o triple.

experience ko rin yung palagi nilang rationale na "dyan lang muna, dont sell, i don't need the money yet". its not about kung kailangan mo pera mo o not, its about cashing in and know when to sell.

still i can't understand, why wait long term if u can profit short term?

bali maam bel, minimum board lot nang sanmig is 100 shares. merong "A" shares at "B" shares yung sanmig. yung SMC "B" mas mahal sya kesa sa SMC "A" dahil maliit yung float nya sa market compare to A. MOstly poreners yung bumibili nang B at locals naman sa A, pero pd rin buy yung locals sa B. MInsan ginagamit yung spread nang A & B kung meron poren inflow o outflow. the wider the spread meaning nyan dami "raw" poren inflow. minsan naman the likes of SanMIg and Meralco, ginagawang instrumento for hedging, pero d muna tayo pupunta dyan kasi nd pa pwede hehe :)
kung may stock o cash dividend yung sanmig, pareho rin yung bigay sa A & B.

para sa akin kung ano yung excess cash mo yun lang ang dapat e invest. yung indi mo magamit for 3 years (time alloted sa investment mo) with option to extend kung talo pa :)

kung short term, i woundnt advice to "play" less than 10k, kasi sa charges pa lang "in & out" mo sa stock mga est 3 to 4 percent na yung talo.

sa long term ok lang yung 100 shares muna. dagdagan mo na lang kung may excess ka pa.

yung nd naka post sa board lot, ang tawag dun is odd lot, yung nd buo ang shares. ok lang kung yan lang ang kaya nang investors, ang importante lang, wag mag invest nang sobra sa pangangailangan. pero kailangan malaki yung iakyat nang smc para maka gain tayo.

[cybelle_9]

hmm i guess you could say na takot pa ako talagang "maglaro" kaya more of long term muna iniisip ko...ganon din naiisip kong gawin (which is to start with 100 shares and then increase the number in the future) tapos pag kumita na at the rate na comfortable na ako (meaning na offset na yung mga initial gastos ko sa fees :))...benta na.

experience ko rin yung palagi nilang rationale na "dyan lang muna, dont sell, i don't need the money yet". its not about kung kailangan mo pera mo o not, its about cashing in and know when to sell.
i agree

gusto ko kasi muna sigurong mag start na mag invest, and then when i have enough money to "play" with saka ako mas magiging active....

[Spyfrat]

gud :)
goodluck
yohoo nance, wers u :)

[richyuppie]

Hahaha! Tatayo ang balahibo ko if I'm gonna stick to one issue for 5 years! Hehehe :lol:. No offense to those people who stay long on certain issues, but as what I've stated earlier in this page, there are only a handful of issues (adjusted of stock dividends and stock splits), wherein their current market price is higher than what is five years ago.

Indeed!

[cybelle_9]

thanks Spyfrat

[Spyfrat]

ur welcum po maam :)
richdude ano balits mo ebc, hevi poren buying kasi.
rfm babagsak pa yata sa mid 70's e.

btw sabi ni mang esko na taga-igib nang 2big bantay raw yung aug 16 sa us market for votom. 2-3 weeks from now raw baka position *** sa sunw@ below3, ibm@55. kwen2 kasi sa kanya ni iking na mang uuling yun raw nakita nya sa karagatan, ika nga yun ang sabi nang mga alon sa kanya. :glee:

[richyuppie]

Originally posted by cybelle_9

i am not a finance major nor do i know a lot about the stock market.

I'm a human resource major (i never practiced it!) and I used to be a pre-school teacher and tutor.





Originally posted by nance

More on The Motley Fool investment philosophy...

Investing Isn't Rocket Science

Thanks. Very informative. You could also check the thread 20 Golden Rules for Stock Traders (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105056)





Originally posted by cybelle_9

i'm thinking of investing in FPH, BPI, or SMC....any input on these companies?
FPH - Exaggerately oversold. Target bottom is P10.00. Remember that this price is just a projection. It does not necessarily mean it would touch P10. Buying now at P13.25 (as of July 24's closing price) would give you a 1:3 risk-reward ratio. It means that chances of losing money is 1 out of 3. It will also issue 20% stock dividends, wherein the ex-stock date is on August 6. This means that if you are a shareholder on August 5, you would receive 20% more shares of your current FPH portfolio, which will be given on the date payable. But mind you, it doesn't mean that you earn 20%. If FPH's closing price is P12.00 on August 5, the value of FPH will be P10.00 on August 6 (12.00 / 1.2). In other words, you don't really earn, but you just increased you number of shares but with lesser value.

BPI - Buy around P47.00 - 47.50. I project this issue to form an inverted head and shoulders. But if P47.00 breaks, forget it.

SMC - Buy at P46.00 - 46.50 on the short term or P45.00 on the medium term.





Originally posted by Spyfrat

richdude ano balits mo ebc, hevi poren buying kasi.
rfm babagsak pa yata sa mid 70's e.
EBC - Yup, foreign buying after more than 3 weeks of continuous foreign selling. It looks like foreign brokerage houses are starting to accumulate this issue again. No news, maybe just technical.

RFM - It sucks!!! Hehehe. Maybe it would stop at 0.85 first, which is the 2001 low.





Indeed!

[Spyfrat]

FPH - long bar last tuesday, prelude to Vbot. kanina cose near high, confirming long bar, fast riser yan na mga patterns. tom, kapag walang gap down, negated yung 2nd attempt breakdown. kapag walang gap dwn, then we could be forming Vbot with initial target sa 16. no consolidation at 16 means 20 agad, short term lang target should be acquired immediately, otherwise kapag may sign of consolidation, sel/cut/short na agad. FPH closed at 13.25


Boss HULK, ano kaya yung reason ba't less than 5% lang sa mga fundman ang beat the street? still yung 5% na yung, most ay negative rin dahil index neg rin. ;)

[Hulk]

Originally posted by Spyfrat

Boss HULK, ano kaya yung reason ba't less than 5% lang sa mga fundman ang beat the street? still yung 5% na yung, most ay negative rin dahil index neg rin. ;)

Here's what I posted in response to that question:

Let's discuss the deficiencies of the two basic indexing strategies, namely, active and passive management.

Active management
1. Poor investment decisions - most active managers are overconfident, form irrational expectatons, and make unrealistic probability assessments. Simply put, they are also vulnerable to poor decisions.

2. Poor risk control - studies show that managers make statistically significant bets against the market. Betting against the market over extended periods is a sign of poor risk control, since the equities usually overperforms money market instruments.

3. High fees and expenses - high fees and commissions greatly contribute to the fund's underperformance. Statistics indicate that managers should outperform the S&P 500 by 145 basis points justto break even with the index. It takes a lot of stock selection skill to do this on a consistent basis.

Passive management
The reasons are a little tecnical and has everything to do with market efficiency. The normal basis for constructing portfolios for passive strategies is what we call the standard market beta. The market beta is likened to the correlation of the movement of a specific stock to the movement of the entire market. This statistic however is usually not a good explanation for security returns. The reason for this is due either to the inefficiency of the market and to the presence of certain anomalies that regularly appear in period of time.

The good thing about passive strategies is that it has less transactions costs than that of active strategies.

To explain it further:
Active management- it's very expensive to constantly rebalance portfolios, aside from commissions and fees, there are other intangible trading costs like market timing.

Another reason is the manager is still human and could still make bad investment decisions especially in terms of stock selection

Passive management - I am sue you have heard of the Capital Asset Pricing Model. Fund managers use the beta to determine the weightings of each stock in the construction of their portfolio. However, the CAPM has a lot of deficiencies and doesn't take into consideration several regularly-occuring anomalies like the "January effect"

Negative Index
Actually looking at a bigger picture it's not really that bad if one of your funds is performing negatively, given that it's index is also performing negatively, so long as it competently follows its investment style.

You see, the big portfolio managers use several fund managers with differing investment styles, to manage portions of their portfolios. A fund manager is chosen specifically because of his investment style to create diversification in the overall portfolio.

Negative performances are realistically expected in some of them, those after all are the costs and realities of diversification, but as a whole and over time, the portfolio should be making money in other areas like bonds, currencies and sometimes even real estate.

Of course us small guys cannot afford to have these large portfolios and enjoy the benefits of diversification; that we normally stick to one investment outlet that we are knowledgeable with.


:frank:

[richyuppie]

cybelle_9:

I forgot to mention, the recommendations I gave for the three issues (FPH, BPI, and SMC) are intended to be used by short and medium term investors (or tsupiteros) or those whose holding periods are less than one month. If you would like to position for a longer period of time, then do not follow my recommendations.






i have been spending most of my free time gathering information about stocks, the PSE, and investing guides.
I also started out that way. I used go to PowerBooks every afternoon and do private readings (the books are quite costly) on related stuff.






i have a few more questions on how to interpret the data we see on charts and tables but i will research first before i post them here
Spyfrat and I will help you in technical analysis as much as we can. Just feel free to ask those questions. Also, I plan to explain a couple of technical analysis tools in the thread






anyway, i think hindi pa lang ako confident sa knowledge ko of the stock market. and i agree na dapat talaga emotionally ready na akong maging dukha or milyonarya and a big part of my emotions relies on my knowledge and confidence about something.
While doing your self-study, you can start making your fantasy portfolio. You create a scenario that you will invest this amount of money to this issue and decide at what price you would sell it and it is important to record your progress. Of course, you don’t cheat, or else, you are just fooling yourself. Or another scenario that I suggest you do is read and listen tips that you see and hear around. Gather everything and synchronize them. Make your own buy and sell recommendations, then see if your tips turned out to be correct. Remember, there is no such thing as a perfect trader. All of us make mistakes in our recommendations, and don’t be upset if you had one. I got this quote from a site on the net (sorry, I didn’t take down the address):

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reward to Risk Ratios

The best traders make money on only 40% of their trades. That's right. Most trades wind up being losers. How then do traders make money if they're wrong most of the time? Since markets can be quite chaotic at times, even a slight move in the wrong direction results in forced liquidation. Therefore, it may be necessary for a trader to probe a market several times before catching the move he or she is looking for. Because most traders are losers, the only way to come out ahead is to ensure that the dollar amount of winning trades is greater than that of the losing trades. To accomplish this, most traders use a reward-to-risk ratio. For each potential trade, a profit objective is determined. The profit objective (the reward) is then balanced against the potential loss if the trade goes wrong (the risk). A commonly used yardstick is a 3 to 1 reward-to-risk. The profit potential must be at least three times the possible loss if a trade is to be considered.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Remember: Invest Your Time Before You Invest Your Money, Test Your Strategy Before You Risk Your Money






hmm i guess you could say na takot pa ako talagang "maglaro" kaya more of long term muna iniisip ko...ganon din naiisip kong gawin (which is to start with 100 shares and then increase the number in the future) tapos pag kumita na at the rate na comfortable na ako (meaning na offset na yung mga initial gastos ko sa fees :))...benta na
As I said in the previous paragraph, test your strategy first before you risk your money. Before, in http://www.citiseconline.com , there was a virtual online stock trading (or is it still available today?). Upon registration, you’ll be given P 1 million to buy and sell stocks of your choice. If this were still available, this would be a very good tool to you to test your strategy. Anyway, there’s really nothing to lose. Also, don’t be frustrated if you weren’t able to get a good stock for the day. Here in the market, “there is always a new good stock everyday.” So don’t be upset if you weren’t able to catch the good pick for the day. Just try to do your homework for the next trading day. Anyway, the rewards are great.:)





Indeed!

[ready2go]

Remember: Invest Your Time Before You Invest Your Money, Test Your Strategy Before You Risk Your Money

Mali 'ata ang ginawa ko ah... hehehe. :lol:

In my case, I plunged into the market with very little knowledge about how it works. I didn't have a strategy even when I risked my money. So far, I've lost (and will lose) a good amount of money already.

But the good news is...

I'm becoming better everyday (or I would like to believe so :D ). Going into the market forced my learning curve to accelerate at a much faster rate than I expected. I have no choice, learn or lose money.

But if you should adopt the actions I did, be sure that you are emotionally mature enough to take such losses. Perhaps, what really helped me get through such bad trades is the fact that I'm in this to learn rather than to earn. (Not that I don't want to earn, dammit! Show me the money man! :glee: )

Anyway, I'm a firm believer in Robert Kiyosaki, author of Rich Dad, Poor Dad. He says that if you want to be rich, then you should invest in financial intelligence. Learn how to make your money earn money. Don't work for money.

That's my two cents coming from an I.T. person.

r2g :coolhat:

===

p.s.
bili kayo ng ABSP! good buy sha ngayon! :rotflmao:

[DivineFist]

A series of articles regarding stock investments. Might be of help to newbies like me

:glee: :glee: :glee:



Investment Strategies for the 21st Century (http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investment_strategies/)

[catya]

if your planning to increase your assets, where is the best place to start? should you invest in multi tel or buy an educational plan and sell it in the future, that is if you don't have kids anymore. Or treasury bonds... if so, how much is the minimum amound required

[reybelde]

So far the best venue to put your investment is through financial services providers particularly insurance companies. There are some life insurance companies (HINDI ITO PRE-NEED HA) which offer attractive returns (term of plan is 11 years) for only a pay period of 5 years and then you could always avail of policy loans naman. As for Multi-tel, I heard there is a problem ata with that eh, read in the Inquirer yesterday.

T-bonds/bills...deyns ko lang alam.

As for the stock market you could invest for as low as PhP5,000, pero medyo maliit lang din ang kita because of your small investment either kahit i-invest mo pa yan sa blue chips.

:drive:

[SILENTMAX]

hmmm same predicament tayo
been looking at the best investments lately iba iba ang directions ang nakikita ko

-real estate: i dont know kung ok to pero lately nothings really moving foreward. binabantayan ko yung prices sa buliteen(every sunday) yet for the past year ala yatang magandang balita sa realestate

-time deposit: sure thing sya pero what i see is that maliit talaga rin ang kikitain tied up pa ang cash mo for 3 months before maturity

-stock market: ive been paper trading these past few months grabe still no profit

-multitel/mmg: they look good in paper. pero i have voices in the back of my head that somethings wrong. case in point mmg is sprouting up all sorts of businesses quickmarts, house applience and also in the entertainment industry. medyo confused ako sa style nila for generating profits.

-setting up a Business/franchise: this is a good lead pero what business????

hmm in anycase ang hirap parin mag decide kasi ang lungkot parin nang situation nang pilipinas ngayon dahil sa political element.

pero as the great confusious... or was it suntzu allways see the opurtunity in a tragedy or was it in tragedys there are always oppurtunities

there are boatloads of money to be made(in the future). and the time is now(to set up the foundation). the problem is the path that needs to be taken

[francis87]

I have a suggestion for you guys, I just don't know if you'll like it. email me at francis87@quickweb.com.ph for details.

[President]

the best place to invest? your head. Invest first in your education before jumping on the field of seasoned investors, coz education is very expensive there.

[Vinz]

Why not go for currency trading/FOREX?

Unlike sa stocks, the only thing you can profit is when the price went up. Sa Forex two way, you can profit either the currency goes up or down, depending on your position in the market. Email me if you have question: trevisnes@yahoo.com

[anwarlorenzo]

Hi!

Where do you guys think should college students invest their money?

Prolly we save about P1000+ a month.

Thanks! :)

[*Green DESTINY*]

When someone told me that Forex was illegal, I didn't believe him at first. ONE, my pride was at stake. I had my own money in forex. TWO, I had clients money at stake - I didn't want a lawsuit on my hands. So well, after I realized PUTEK illegal nga talaga, I pulled out what was left of my funds.. and there wasn't much left.

If you don't believe me, call Agent Tony Suarez of the NBI. 526-1294 or +63916-5390149. You've been warned. Don't wait for someone to tell you "I TOLD YOU SO."

I kind of took the hint when the police like, raided our office? :D

[Spyfrat]

Originally posted by Vinz
Why not go for currency trading/FOREX?

Unlike sa stocks, the only thing you can profit is when the price went up.

what about short selling? ;)

[Renee]

It depends what you're looking for.. are you looking for potentially higher return, but are willing to take the risks? Or are you more for less risky investments with more modest returns?

For less risky investments, I think treasury bonds are not a bad place to start because they offer around 6-12% 'ata per annum, and your return is guaranteed. Only concern lang is that your money will be tied up for the duration of the bond.. which can be for 5-10 years. Am not sure also of their minimum requirement, but it's probably not much.

If you want to increase your assets, there's also the option to buy assets and wait for their value to grow, such as real estate.. I think the real estate market is down these days.. so you can expect the value of your property to rise in the years to come

Other than that, have you ever heard of Mutual Funds? There's a thread in the Working Filipino about it. This is where I put most of the money I saved from work in the last 2 years, and the returns have been good :). And the thing that works for me is that it's a liquid investment... Neways, just email me at buds@mydestiny.net if you'd be interested to learn more. Am a Mutual Fund representative kasi eh.

For riskier ventures... you can always opt to put up a small business, like a small franchise or setting up stalls in a bazaar.

I wouldn't advise placing your money in the stock market or in companies such as MultiTel though.. For the former, I think it's just too volatile right now, and it would be better to invest money in something that you understand kasi eh. Other than that, I heard that companies such as Multitel are being investigated by the SEC right now.

[gutomlangyan]

Originally posted by *Green DESTINY*
When someone told me that Forex was illegal, I didn't believe him at first. ONE, my pride was at stake. I had my own money in forex. TWO, I had clients money at stake - I didn't want a lawsuit on my hands. So well, after I realized PUTEK illegal nga talaga, I pulled out what was left of my funds.. and there wasn't much left.

If you don't believe me, call Agent Tony Suarez of the NBI. 526-1294 or +63916-5390149. You've been warned. Don't wait for someone to tell you "I TOLD YOU SO."

I kind of took the hint when the police like, raided our office? :D

whooa!

you mean ALL forex companies, without exception?

[*Green DESTINY*]

I remember someone telling me that all Forex firms were banned yata by SEC in 1994. There are others though where some of my friends have worked for before, where the money was actually traded (daw). Tipong from $5000 to $43,000. But those were exceptional circumstances.

Basically ask yourself: are funds actually traded? They say funds are remitted abroad - can company provide documents to prove this? Do managers solicit their own clients or do they just rely on the new recruits to bring in all the money? Are any of the accounts actually making money? Does the company release withdrawals on time?

According to the rules of the SEC, you do need a secondary license to trade funds, more than what the original SEC papers and articles of incorporation states. Assuming your company does not have that, more or less it is operating outside of the law, or beyond what it claims to be in its SEC papers.

If your managers just sit around the office all day giving the wrong recommendations pa and don't actually make their own calls... yikes. They're just EXPLOITING the people under them. Yung isang manager namin dati nadulas.. sabi daw niya ayaw niya i-call kasi Kaibigan daw niya yon. Do not trust managers who are not willing to place their own funds in their own products.

Another warning sign is if the company does not advertise itself with the proper brochures. Yung parang xerox lang ang mabibigay sa yo. No real company brochures, folders, materials. Kung leave it up nalang to your imagination, ka duda duda yon.

Then of course if no one in your company is making money, better wise up na. Obviously all the accounts are just caught up in one death trap. Siguro naman if they claim to have the years of experience they say they have, dapat kumikita na yung mga accounts di ba?? ;)

[*Green DESTINY*]

You'll be SURPRISED, BUT PLEASE NAMAN MAKE SURE your managers don't have fricking NBI RECORDS... Don't be surprised to find out pala your managers have records na sa NBI. Kung medyo kilala na sila ng NBI, may files na, picture pa ang marami ng complaints.. In fact if they can give you a physical description of the person when you just mentioned their names, medyo matakot ka na..

Yung isa namin na trainee ang ***** talaga. Sorry. There's no other word for it. Ni-RAID na nga ang office namin, NAKITA na nga may WARRANT FOR ARREST ang mga tao, ABA EH BUMALIK PA SA OPISINA, MAY BALAK PANG MAGHANAP NG BAGONG ACCOUNTS. (May dala pang pasalubong para sa mga boss.) Hindi pa daw siya makapaniwala na illegal ang ginagawa ng mga boss kasi daw "kabayan" niya ang manager.

Bottom line is: it doesn't hurt to call the SEC and the NBI to ask. If your company is as legit as they claim to be, then there should be nothing to worry about, right? However, if your company seems to fidget, not want to answer certain questions, PLEASE take the hint. Baka masunog ka pa.

[mazdamazda]

First of all, before you invest your money, have you secured yourself enough?

You should get the basics first like life insurance, health card, educ plan for your children, pension for yourself, house insurance, car insurance, a time deposit at your local bank, etc.

This is what most people fail to do first. If your investment gets wiped out at least you have a fall back scenario and you and your family is secured.

Don't be fooled by some get-rich-quick schemes. Some of 'em are good but many of 'em are just plain disgusting. A small tube of toothpaste for P300, anyone? Do you research and be cautious of everyone.

Save, save and save! Be sure that you have enough money (and working knowledge) before you go into investing. Most high-yield investments may even require you a minimum of P50,000. If you want to be an entrepreneur, that is what will be needed to startup your business.

[*Green DESTINY*]

What do you guys think of First Quadrant? It's an MLM company that uses the binary system. Initial cash investment is 8880. Products are shows, fashion items. Founders have a solid track record in the manufacturing industry, but i think only relatively new in the MLM scene? Is this legal or illegal? :D

[YutaNyo]

Originally posted by *Green DESTINY*
What do you guys think of First Quadrant? It's an MLM company that uses the binary system. Initial cash investment is 8880. Products are shows, fashion items. Founders have a solid track record in the manufacturing industry, but i think only relatively new in the MLM scene? Is this legal or illegal? :D

It's a scam no matter what you call it. Just attended a friends presentation about this one. Well, if people are earning then it must be a good scam. You just have to have the right connections and be more persuasive.

[*Green DESTINY*]

not that I am arguing with you, because I am honestly asking to seek answers, but why do you say it is a scam? :D

[richyuppie]

Congratulations to spyfrat for being our tsupitero of the month!

http://www.tsupitero.com/spyfrat.htm

Bosing spyfrat, ano latest tip natin ngayon?

[MangingisdA]

Looking for a place to invest?

Try Business! A good business are those that require small capital and yet bring in more profit. I think you all will agree with me. Try networking. Malugi man, maliit. Para ka lang bumili ng cell phone tapos ninakaw sa yo. Wala pang sakit ng ulo.

If you are to invest 10k in the stock market will it earn you P1M in one year? I doubt it. But you can find a networking company that offers less than 10K lifetime fee and allows you to earn .5M/month or more. Non Believers of MLM will definitely not like the idea but why dont you just give it a try? Take the small risk if you can call it risk.

[Hulk]

Originally posted by Renee

For less risky investments, I think treasury bonds are not a bad place to start because they offer around 6-12% 'ata per annum, and your return is guaranteed. Only concern lang is that your money will be tied up for the duration of the bond.. which can be for 5-10 years. Am not sure also of their minimum requirement, but it's probably not much.



It's a general misconception among investors that you have to hold bonds or in our case FXTNx until maturity. Baka pag bumili ka ng 20-yr. FXTN, patay ka na, di pa nagma-mature. :lol:

The way to make money out of bonds is through the movement of interest rates. If interest rates fall, the price of the bond goes up. That's where you make money aside from the periodic coupon payments.

Less risky? Well in terms of credit risk, yes! The best creditor is the national government because they can always print money to pay you. However in terms of price risk, risky pa rin siya. Imagine if you bought a 10-yr. paper today at 11% and you needed money after a period of time, and 10-yr. interest rates are back at its normal levels of 15%. By disposing it, you will lose about 25% of your investment. Of course if interest rates drop, you can also make a lot.


:frank:

[Vinz]

Green Destiny,

I think I know the company that you're taking about? Is it located at the PEAK TOWER? I don't think Forex is illegal, you should ask why your company was raided! Our company has been operating for 4 yrs now! Baka yung nga iba kasi dyan mga fly by night, after taking the client's money, nagmamagic na, nawawala na! And btw, we're soon be transferring to Enterprise Tower, at the former ofc of DBS Bank sa ground floor! We have also office in Malaysia, Singapose, USA, Korea...*** were not a fly by night company. Speaking of short-selling, yes you can do it in Forex, this is one of the Salient Feature of Curreny Trading.

Ang alam kong ban ng SEC ay yung Futures! Pero yung Spot Currency trading, I don't think so.

I f you want we have an Investors Nite on Wednesday, Sept 11. PM me if you're interested! Good day!

[BabadSaComputer]

Originally posted by Hulk


The way to make money out of bonds is through the movement of interest rates. If interest rates fall, the price of the bond goes up. That's where you make money aside from the periodic coupon payments.

:frank:
Can you please elaborate on the interest thing that you are saying? :mconfused: AFAIK, there are lot's of interest rates out there. Newbie lang ako eh. :newbie:

[Hulk]

Originally posted by BabadSaComputer

Can you please elaborate on the interest thing that you are saying? :mconfused: AFAIK, there are lot's of interest rates out there. Newbie lang ako eh. :newbie:

Coupon rate
Is the rate of interest that you receive every period. For example an FXTN gives out coupon interests semi-annually. If it has a face value of P 10MM and it has a coupon rate of 10%, you will P 400k every coupon date (10MM x 10% x 6/12 x .8(less tax))

Yield-to-maturity
It's the rate quoted for trading bonds. It's the effective rate of the bond if you hold on to it until maturity. If the YTM is higher/lower than the coupon rate, the bond is sold at a discount/premium.


:frank:

[BabadSaComputer]

Originally posted by Hulk


Coupon rate
Is the rate of interest that you receive every period. For example an FXTN gives out coupon interests semi-annually. If it has a face value of P 10MM and it has a coupon rate of 10%, you will P 400k every coupon date (10MM x 10% x 6/12 x .8(less tax))

Yield-to-maturity
It's the rate quoted for trading bonds. It's the effective rate of the bond if you hold on to it until maturity. If the YTM is higher/lower than the coupon rate, the bond is sold at a discount/premium.


:frank:
Thanks dude! BWT, I know that the YTM rates are based on the market rate. But how will you know the YTM of a particular instrument? Is there a benchmark or something like the 91-day T-bill rate? :mconfused: Please help me with this, because I have invested in some government T-bonds. I would like to know whether it would be more profitable to sell it now or wait until it matures. TIA. :D

:jbravo:

[Hulk]

Originally posted by BabadSaComputer

Thanks dude! BWT, I know that the YTM rates are based on the market rate. But how will you know the YTM of a particular instrument? Is there a benchmark or something like the 91-day T-bill rate? :mconfused: Please help me with this, because I have invested in some government T-bonds. I would like to know whether it would be more profitable to sell it now or wait until it matures. TIA. :D

:jbravo:

Well there are regular auctions for t-bills 91d, 182d, 364d every week. FXTN auctions are also once a week, yun nga lang ibang tenor every auction.

But if you need daily updates, may fix-in rates meaning dealer banks give daily quotes for the instruments that are newly auctioned. The closing prices then serve as the basis of mark-to-market rates. By doing this, the market has created a yield curve from one day (overnight rate) to 20 years. The rates of other instruments are interpolated from the fix-in rates. Of course the rates quoted here are normally between banks and may be different for end clients.

I would like to know whether it would be more profitable to sell it now or wait until it matures. TIA. :D

:jbravo:

When did you buy your security? What security? And at what rate (YTM and coupon)?


:frank:

[BabadSaComputer]

Originally posted by Hulk
Well there are regular auctions for t-bills 91d, 182d, 364d every week. FXTN auctions are also once a week, yun nga lang ibang tenor every auction.
What reflects the YTM rate? Is it the 91, 182, 364d? Anu nga pala yung FXTM? Wala kasing ganung bokabularyo sa bundok namin eh... :bonkself: Hehe...nakalimutan kong itanong kanina... :o


When did you buy your security? What security? And at what rate (YTM and coupon)?


:frank:
I bought 5-yr Retail Treasury Bonds from the gov't sometime in May 2001 (IPO period). 14% quarter-annual coupon (less 20% tax to get 11.4%). The YTM? That I would still ask my dealer bank for the docus. Nakalimutan ko na eh. :o

Mr. Hulk, do BSP publish in their website the latest quotation of the t-bill rates? Kasi nasa office ako the whole day, nakakahiya naman kung tatawag pa ako sa bangko (tsaka tinatamad din ako tumawag sa bangko eh...hek-hek-hek :glee: ).

BTW, thank you for bearing with my tons of questions. Are there any useful websites that you might recommend to our inquiring minds? :D TIA

:jbravo:

[Hulk]

Originally posted by BabadSaComputer

What reflects the YTM rate? Is it the 91, 182, 364d? Anu nga pala yung FXTM? Wala kasing ganung bokabularyo sa bundok namin eh... :bonkself: Hehe...nakalimutan kong itanong kanina... :o

The market rate reflects the YTM rate. In your case since it has two or three years left until maturity, the YTM is interpolated between the various banks' bids against the latest two-year and five-year FXTNs. FXTN stands for Fixed-rate Treasury Notes. Treasury Bills are issues one year and below while Treasury Notes are issues with more than one year.


I bought 5-yr Retail Treasury Bonds from the gov't sometime in May 2001 (IPO period). 14% quarter-annual coupon (less 20% tax to get 11.4%). The YTM? That I would still ask my dealer bank for the docus. Nakalimutan ko na eh. :o

It's actually a good buy. I would estimate it's current YTM at 10 to 10.5%. You probably purchased it at near 13.75%. Hawakan mo na lang.

Mr. Hulk, do BSP publish in their website the latest quotation of the t-bill rates? Kasi nasa office ako the whole day, nakakahiya naman kung tatawag pa ako sa bangko (tsaka tinatamad din ako tumawag sa bangko eh...hek-hek-hek :glee: ).

BTW, thank you for bearing with my tons of questions. Are there any useful websites that you might recommend to our inquiring minds? :D TIA

:jbravo:

Weekly Tbill results are posted in Tuesday's papers. For daily rates, you have to ask the banks unless of course the company you work for has a Bloomberg or a Telerate.

A Bloomberg is really informative pero it costs more than half a million bucks a year!


:frank:

[BabadSaComputer]

HULK:
Hey, thanks! More power to you! :handsdown:

:jbravo:

[omeng]

placed some money in MMG... (back up)

then make some legal business... marami dyan! creativity ang kailangan

[omeng]

[i]-multitel/mmg: they look good in paper. pero i have voices in the back of my head that somethings wrong. case in point mmg is sprouting up all sorts of businesses quickmarts, house applience and also in the entertainment industry. medyo confused ako sa style nila for generating profits.

parang mga bangko din... pano sila kumikita?

may mga high yielding investment... associations of bankers... only big players allowed.

you can visit the thread... in classified adds..."money begets money"



;)

[mai_1]

i have just received this month's earning ko sa Multitel (3rd month ko).

may dadating na news...ikaka-shock nang marami ..pero ako di na..kase alam ko na.

i strongly encourage interested parties to invest. hinding-hindi masasayang pera nyo. i can offer 4% interest monthly, if you can find others na mag-ooffer nang mas mataas, better. but, if you can't find one, sa akin na lang. ok na ang 4% per month.

pls be guided accordingly sa mga sasalihan ninyong coop na under daw ng multitel na nag-o-offer ng mataas na interest. karamihan sa kanila ay fly-by-night. the coop i am involved in is secure and definitely not fly-by-night.

[Tokwatok]

You're right :D :D

[mai_1]

aside from Multitel, why not try CITP New Century International?
SEC-registered company, kahit itawag nyo pa sa SEC. yung US$330 mo, magiging US$2,030 gross (US$1,967 net) in just 21 months. Monthly for 21 months, may papasok na pera sa bank account mo until US$1,967 is accumulated. It is up to you kung gagastusin mo na kagad or iipunin mo muna to actually feel the return of your investment. Tapos, may free hotel accomodation ka pa sa mga accredited hotels ng company around the country. Actually, ang product dito is hotel accomodation. Ngayon, kung ok sayo ang networking, invite ka lang ng ibang investors. US$20 per direct referral at US$2 per indirect referral. Pero kung ayaw mong mag-recruit either dahil tamad ka, ayaw mo lang, or di ka talaga maka-recruit, no worries pa rin dahil sigurado na ang return of your investment - your US$330 to US$1,967 net.
walang kahirap-hirap na pagkita ng pera. di ito pyramiding dahil may product.

investor ako dun (3 months na) and I am happy - lalo na ngayon may isa akong recruit. :D

d368_00@yahoo.com email ko should anyone would like to invest.

salamat. :)

[mai_1]

yung broker ba ang mag-iinform sa investor kung kelan or dapat na nyang ibenta yung shares nya? sino magbebenta? yung broker rin ba? pano kung walang bumili?

ala kasi akong kaalam-alam sa stock market eh. pero matagal ko nang pinag-iisipan mag-invest sa Manila Bulletin. Kase, tingin ko stable ang Manila Bulletin dahil sa tinagal-tagal na naming subscriber sa kanila, di naman nawawala sa sirkulasyon.

could anyone please enlighten me on this? sino bang legit broker na pwede kong kontakin?

:)

[zimdude]

:handsdown: to Spyfrat...

big time pala! *okay*

[sam7268]

Originally posted by zimdude
:handsdown: to Spyfrat...

big time pala! *okay*

ay, oo! big time talaga yan ... :bounce2:

di ba, 'no, spy? :beam:

[snop]

Originally posted by Spyfrat
hehe *** a coincidence.. kakareco ko lang MB as one stock for long term investment (i'm against long term investment ** sa pinas equity market though, pero kung may nagpupumilit, MB is one stock i would like to reco)
here's the link.....
http://www.philstocks.net/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000323.html

but i frequent here more often:
http://pub45.ezboard.com/bphisix

Dividend History of MB

1994 0.5 Cash 21-Feb1994
1994 0.25 Cash 10-Oct1994
1994 0.25 Cash 23-Dec1994
1996 100% Stock 16-Jan1996
1996 0.5 Cash 11-Sep1996
1997 0.25 Cash 05-Feb1997
1997 0.25 Cash 11-Aug1997
1998 0.25 Cash 20-Apr1998
1998 29.89% Stock 02-Oct1998
1999 0.25 Cash 09-Jul1999
1999 0.2511 Cash 21-Jan-2000
2000 41.317738% Stock 15-Sep-2000
2000 0.086823 Cash 19-Dec-2000
2001 12.5% Stock 17-Aug-2001
2002 0.075 Cash 28-Jan-2002

Yung Centro Escolar University (CEU) hanep rin magbigay nang cash div.

Thanks for replying to me about drips sa forurm mo. hmmmm ang probs ** dapat pasok sa board lot yung stock na dapat mong e invest. unlike sa us market, no borad lots. kahit 1 share u can buy, ** u can rin but its not advisable coz hirap bumili nnag oddlot and its disadvantageous sa investor coz of min purchase requiement. may mga brokers na below P10k yung investments yung comm nila is automatic P107. however I've been doin that for some of my clients na wala **, but instead of reinvesting their cash div for them individually, dinadaan ko sa isang investment as a group para nd mag min.

Am thinking of buying MB long term. My question is why walang dividends noong 1995?

[snop]

Originally posted by richyuppie
Cash Dividends?? Try City & Land Developers (LAND).

Indeed!

Hey Rich,

I checked your website. Cool, Indeed!

[snop]

Originally posted by cybelle_9
hi!

i'm glad i was able to find this thread because i really think the posts are very informative and unintimidating to a stock market dummy like me. i am not a finance major nor do i know a lot about the stock market. i'm currently gathering information about investing tips and techniques and posts from richyuppie, spyfrat, and hulk have been most informative.

i've been actually thinking of investing in stocks since last year. unfortunately i hadn't had enough knowledge and money (!!!) to get the ball rolling. this year, i still don't have money but i have been spending most of my free time gathering information about stocks, the PSE, and investing guides. or am i just being too much of a sigurista ?

there is this book i'm reading by tom and david garder, "The Motley Fool Investment Guide" which somehow initiates my plan of investing in stocks. however after reading a few chapters on it i see that some of their recommendations are contradictory to what has been posted here or they are just simply not applicable in our setting. for example, they mentioned that if people like me were to invest in stocks, i should consider buying stocks and holding on to it for at least 5 years. with this, i was quite surprised that your idea of a long term investment is 1-3 months :). are their concepts totally not applicable to our market?

i do hope that this thread would remain active and investment guide channels would open in the future.
I hope so too. Am a fan of the MF din! Check Drips thread sa Local and Foreign section ng Pex.

[snop]

Originally posted by nance


No offense taken, Spyfrat. Alam mo, pag binabasa ko yung earlier recommendations sa thread na 'to, tumatayo rin ang balahibo ko. Hehe. Peace tayo, ha?

Like what I said before, kanya-kanyang investing style lang yan. Choose whatever style helps you sleep better at night.

Tama ka Nance, Kanya-kanya basta you sleep better!:)

[snop]

Originally posted by Hulk


Here's what I posted in response to that question:

Let's discuss the deficiencies of the two basic indexing strategies, namely, active and passive management.

Active management
1. Poor investment decisions - most active managers are overconfident, form irrational expectatons, and make unrealistic probability assessments. Simply put, they are also vulnerable to poor decisions.

2. Poor risk control - studies show that managers make statistically significant bets against the market. Betting against the market over extended periods is a sign of poor risk control, since the equities usually overperforms money market instruments.

3. High fees and expenses - high fees and commissions greatly contribute to the fund's underperformance. Statistics indicate that managers should outperform the S&P 500 by 145 basis points justto break even with the index. It takes a lot of stock selection skill to do this on a consistent basis.

Passive management
The reasons are a little tecnical and has everything to do with market efficiency. The normal basis for constructing portfolios for passive strategies is what we call the standard market beta. The market beta is likened to the correlation of the movement of a specific stock to the movement of the entire market. This statistic however is usually not a good explanation for security returns. The reason for this is due either to the inefficiency of the market and to the presence of certain anomalies that regularly appear in period of time.

The good thing about passive strategies is that it has less transactions costs than that of active strategies.

To explain it further:
Active management- it's very expensive to constantly rebalance portfolios, aside from commissions and fees, there are other intangible trading costs like market timing.

Another reason is the manager is still human and could still make bad investment decisions especially in terms of stock selection

Passive management - I am sue you have heard of the Capital Asset Pricing Model. Fund managers use the beta to determine the weightings of each stock in the construction of their portfolio. However, the CAPM has a lot of deficiencies and doesn't take into consideration several regularly-occuring anomalies like the "January effect"

Negative Index
Actually looking at a bigger picture it's not really that bad if one of your funds is performing negatively, given that it's index is also performing negatively, so long as it competently follows its investment style.

You see, the big portfolio managers use several fund managers with differing investment styles, to manage portions of their portfolios. A fund manager is chosen specifically because of his investment style to create diversification in the overall portfolio.

Negative performances are realistically expected in some of them, those after all are the costs and realities of diversification, but as a whole and over time, the portfolio should be making money in other areas like bonds, currencies and sometimes even real estate.

Of course us small guys cannot afford to have these large portfolios and enjoy the benefits of diversification; that we normally stick to one investment outlet that we are knowledgeable with.


:frank:

Thanks Hulk, am interested din sa mutual funds. Let me read further the other post before I post again. I like this thread!:)

[snop]

Originally posted by Hulk


Here's what I posted in response to that question:

Let's discuss the deficiencies of the two basic indexing strategies, namely, active and passive management.

Active management
1. Poor investment decisions - most active managers are overconfident, form irrational expectatons, and make unrealistic probability assessments. Simply put, they are also vulnerable to poor decisions.

2. Poor risk control - studies show that managers make statistically significant bets against the market. Betting against the market over extended periods is a sign of poor risk control, since the equities usually overperforms money market instruments.

3. High fees and expenses - high fees and commissions greatly contribute to the fund's underperformance. Statistics indicate that managers should outperform the S&P 500 by 145 basis points justto break even with the index. It takes a lot of stock selection skill to do this on a consistent basis.

Passive management
The reasons are a little tecnical and has everything to do with market efficiency. The normal basis for constructing portfolios for passive strategies is what we call the standard market beta. The market beta is likened to the correlation of the movement of a specific stock to the movement of the entire market. This statistic however is usually not a good explanation for security returns. The reason for this is due either to the inefficiency of the market and to the presence of certain anomalies that regularly appear in period of time.

The good thing about passive strategies is that it has less transactions costs than that of active strategies.

To explain it further:
Active management- it's very expensive to constantly rebalance portfolios, aside from commissions and fees, there are other intangible trading costs like market timing.

Another reason is the manager is still human and could still make bad investment decisions especially in terms of stock selection

Passive management - I am sue you have heard of the Capital Asset Pricing Model. Fund managers use the beta to determine the weightings of each stock in the construction of their portfolio. However, the CAPM has a lot of deficiencies and doesn't take into consideration several regularly-occuring anomalies like the "January effect"

Negative Index
Actually looking at a bigger picture it's not really that bad if one of your funds is performing negatively, given that it's index is also performing negatively, so long as it competently follows its investment style.

You see, the big portfolio managers use several fund managers with differing investment styles, to manage portions of their portfolios. A fund manager is chosen specifically because of his investment style to create diversification in the overall portfolio.

Negative performances are realistically expected in some of them, those after all are the costs and realities of diversification, but as a whole and over time, the portfolio should be making money in other areas like bonds, currencies and sometimes even real estate.

Of course us small guys cannot afford to have these large portfolios and enjoy the benefits of diversification; that we normally stick to one investment outlet that we are knowledgeable with.


:frank:

Thanks Hulk, am interested din sa mutual funds. Let me read further the other posts before I post again. I like this thread!:)

[Spyfrat]

boss zimdude hehe
tawa nga nang tawa si sam :glee:

hayyy kailangan ko nang magpapayat :D

[sam7268]

Originally posted by Spyfrat
boss zimdude hehe
tawa nga nang tawa si sam :glee:

hayyy kailangan ko nang magpapayat :D

ay bakit, spy? tumataba ka sa kakatingin ng mga charts mo? :lol:

padala ka naman dito ng pagkain! kahit piaya lang. :teehee:

[snop]

Hi Spy,

Tanong uli. Am thinking of buying MB long term. My question is why walang dividends noong 1995?


Dividend History of MB

1994 0.5 Cash 21-Feb1994
1994 0.25 Cash 10-Oct1994
1994 0.25 Cash 23-Dec1994 <------?
1996 100% Stock 16-Jan1996 <-------?
1996 0.5 Cash 11-Sep1996
1997 0.25 Cash 05-Feb1997
1997 0.25 Cash 11-Aug1997
1998 0.25 Cash 20-Apr1998
1998 29.89% Stock 02-Oct1998
1999 0.25 Cash 09-Jul1999
1999 0.2511 Cash 21-Jan-2000
2000 41.317738% Stock 15-Sep-2000
2000 0.086823 Cash 19-Dec-2000
2001 12.5% Stock 17-Aug-2001
2002 0.075 Cash 28-Jan-2002

Thanks:)

[Spyfrat]

baka kasi malapitan lang yung dividends nung 94 (late) at (early) 96. saka depende rin sa company.
kaso lang tumaas na MB e, from 2.70/sh in late august, nag 4/sh na to few days ago.

[sam7268]

spy, asan na yung piaya? dagdagan mo na rin ng barquillos. :bounce2:

don't you watch the US markets anymore? don't see you online in the wee hours of the morning ... kita mo CRUS ko? :whatthe:

[Spyfrat]

europe na ako e naks :glee: joks lang pow maam ;)

buhangin lang dala ko e :D

[snop]

Originally posted by Spyfrat
baka kasi malapitan lang yung dividends nung 94 (late) at (early) 96. saka depende rin sa company.
kaso lang tumaas na MB e, from 2.70/sh in late august, nag 4/sh na to few days ago.

Thanks spy,

Hiramin ko lang ang figures mo ha? Ipapakita ko lang kay Rebo sa Drips thread, Local and Foreign Forum. I'll be back.:)

[richyuppie]

Originally posted by snop


Hey Rich,

I checked your website. Cool, Indeed!
Thanks. I really thought is a non-sense webpage. Hehehe joke.

Indeed!

[thehitman]

Question on SDTs. I visited the PSE site and it says there that the coupon rate is 13.675%. If I were to invest in SDTs today, would I still get the same rate? Or is it lower now because it has been some years since this instrument was issued?

I'm currently looking for the best instrument to place roughly P40,000. Something that can provide a more or less steady stream of income, available to me in about 2 years. I would love to invest in stocks, but I don't have the dough yet. I know P50,000 is the minimum, but surely, I'd need something much larger than that to make room for some additional expenses as well as provide breathing space for short-term losses. Any suggestions?

:cool:

[Hulk]

Originally posted by thehitman
Question on SDTs. I visited the PSE site and it says there that the coupon rate is 13.675%. If I were to invest in SDTs today, would I still get the same rate? Or is it lower now because it has been some years since this instrument was issued?

I'm currently looking for the best instrument to place roughly P40,000. Something that can provide a more or less steady stream of income, available to me in about 2 years. I would love to invest in stocks, but I don't have the dough yet. I know P50,000 is the minimum, but surely, I'd need something much larger than that to make room for some additional expenses as well as provide breathing space for short-term losses. Any suggestions?

:cool:

The 13.675% is the coupon rate. Bonds are quoted using Yield-to-Maturity (YTMs). The YTM is the market rate of the bond which is way lower than 13.675%, because of lower present interest rates compared to when it was issued.


:frank:

[thehitman]

So, if I understand this correctly, I get 13.675% (or 10.94% net) pa, payable quarterly, right? Good enough for me :). Anyone who can put me in touch with a broker who deals with SDTs?

:cool:

[Hulk]

Originally posted by thehitman
So, if I understand this correctly, I get 13.675% (or 10.94% net) pa, payable quarterly, right? Good enough for me :). Anyone who can put me in touch with a broker who deals with SDTs?

:cool:

Yep that's right but you will have to pay a hefty premium when you buy it due to the lower YTM.

If you can't find a broker, try mo Landbank.

:frank:

[richyuppie]

Originally posted by thehitman
I know P50,000 is the minimum, but surely, I'd need something much larger than that to make room for some additional expenses as well as provide breathing space for short-term losses.
P50,000 is the minimum for online trading, but if you go through a stock broker, the minimum amount depends on the issue and it's market price.

Indeed!

[Spyfrat]

re online trading: why not try investing sa us market instead. datex.com has no minimum, etrade.com $1k for cash acct, $2k for margin.



Q. What are SDT- Bonds?
A. Small Denominated Treasury Bonds or SDT-Bonds are long term debt securities issued by the Bureau of Treasury of the Republic of the Philippines. The bond is an evidence of indebtedness of the Republic of the Philippines to the owner of the SDT-Bonds.

Q. How are SDT-Bonds different from an ordinary corporate bond? From an ordinary Saving account?
A. SDT-bonds differ from corporate bonds in terms of risk profile of the Issuer. SDT-Bonds have the full backing of the Republic of the Philippines, making it risk-free. On the other hand, corporate bonds entail higher risk that the Issuer may default on its obligations depending upon its stability. Further, compared to an ordinary savings account, SDT-Bonds are by far superior in terms of interest earnings.

Q. Why should I invest in SDT-Bonds?
A. SDT-Bonds are direct and unconditional obligations of the Republic of the Philippines to the holder. This makes the bond a prime collateral should the bondholder need to borrow money from a bank. Further, SDT-Bonds has a fixed coupon rate of 13.625% per annum, paid quarterly. This is among the highest yield that an investor can get from fixed-income securities.

Q. How do I get my interest earnings from bonds?
A. The interest earned from the investment will be credited to the bondholders account quarterly.

Q. What would be my proof of ownership if I invest in SDT-Bonds?
A. The SDT-Bonds will be registered in the Bureau of the Treasury’s (BTr) Registry of Scripless Securities. Since the transfer of securities shall be done electronically, confirmation slips shall be issued in lieu of the bond certificates as evidence of ownership.

Q. If I want to cash-in on my investments in the SDT-Bonds, do I have to wait for the maturity date?
A. An investor need not wait for the maturity date of the bond to recover his investments. Since the bonds shall be listed and traded on the Philippine Stock Exchange, he may sell the bond on the Exchange prior to maturity date.

Q. How do I start investing in SDT-Bonds? What is the minimum amount of investment?
A. Just like an ordinary savings account, an investor has to open an account and present valid identification with a broker before he can actively trade SDT-Bonds on the Exchange. An investor would need at least the minimum amount of investment which is Php 5,000.00.

Q. How is the SDT-Bond quoted on the PSE?
A. The price of the SDT-Bonds will be quoted as a percentage of its face value up to the sixth decimal place. For example, a bond with a face value of Php 5,000 is quoted at 99.000001. The market value of the bond is Php 4,950.00005 (5,000 x 0.99000001)

Q. What are the factors that could affect SDT-Bond prices?
A. The most important determinant of bond prices is the level of prevailing interest rate. As a general rule, the price of a bond tend to increase if prevailing interest rates fall and tend to decline as the interest rate increase. Other factors which could affect bond prices thru the level of interest rates are business cycle, inflation rate and flow of funds.

Q. Are all member-brokers allowed to trade SDT-Bonds?
A. Not all brokers can trade SDT-Bonds. As of 24 August 2001, there are at least eleven (11) brokers accredited and allowed to trade SDT-Bonds, these are:

Abacus Securities Corporation
DBP-Daiwa Sec. SB Cap. Markets Phils., Inc
G. D. Tan and Company, Inc.
JSG Securities, Inc.
RCBC Securities, Inc
Wellex Global Equities, Inc.
BA Securities, Inc
F. Yap Securities, Inc
ICG Securities, Inc
Lucky Securities, Inc
Solar Securities, Inc


Q. How long is the settlement period for SDT-Bonds?
A. Unlike stocks which are settled three days after the transaction date (T+3), trade on the SDT-Bonds shall be settled on the same day (T+0) when the trade is transacted.

Source: Philippine Stock Exchange

[richyuppie]

Originally posted by Spyfrat
Q. Are all member-brokers allowed to trade SDT-Bonds?
A. Not all brokers can trade SDT-Bonds. As of 24 August 2001, there are at least eleven (11) brokers accredited and allowed to trade SDT-Bonds, these are:

Abacus Securities Corporation
DBP-Daiwa Sec.
SB Cap. Markets Phils., Inc
G. D. Tan and Company, Inc.
JSG Securities, Inc.
RCBC Securities, Inc
Wellex Global Equities, Inc.
BA Securities, Inc
F. Yap Securities, Inc
ICG Securities, Inc
Lucky Securities, Inc
Solar Securities, Inc
Indeed!

[snop]

Originally posted by Spyfrat
re online trading: why not try investing sa us market instead. datex.com has no minimum, etrade.com $1k for cash acct, $2k for margin.



Q. What are SDT- Bonds?
A. Small Denominated Treasury Bonds or SDT-Bonds are long term debt securities issued by the Bureau of Treasury of the Republic of the Philippines. The bond is an evidence of indebtedness of the Republic of the Philippines to the owner of the SDT-Bonds.

Q. How are SDT-Bonds different from an ordinary corporate bond? From an ordinary Saving account?
A. SDT-bonds differ from corporate bonds in terms of risk profile of the Issuer. SDT-Bonds have the full backing of the Republic of the Philippines, making it risk-free. On the other hand, corporate bonds entail higher risk that the Issuer may default on its obligations depending upon its stability. Further, compared to an ordinary savings account, SDT-Bonds are by far superior in terms of interest earnings.

Q. Why should I invest in SDT-Bonds?
A. SDT-Bonds are direct and unconditional obligations of the Republic of the Philippines to the holder. This makes the bond a prime collateral should the bondholder need to borrow money from a bank. Further, SDT-Bonds has a fixed coupon rate of 13.625% per annum, paid quarterly. This is among the highest yield that an investor can get from fixed-income securities.

Q. How do I get my interest earnings from bonds?
A. The interest earned from the investment will be credited to the bondholders account quarterly.

Q. What would be my proof of ownership if I invest in SDT-Bonds?
A. The SDT-Bonds will be registered in the Bureau of the Treasury’s (BTr) Registry of Scripless Securities. Since the transfer of securities shall be done electronically, confirmation slips shall be issued in lieu of the bond certificates as evidence of ownership.

Q. If I want to cash-in on my investments in the SDT-Bonds, do I have to wait for the maturity date?
A. An investor need not wait for the maturity date of the bond to recover his investments. Since the bonds shall be listed and traded on the Philippine Stock Exchange, he may sell the bond on the Exchange prior to maturity date.

Q. How do I start investing in SDT-Bonds? What is the minimum amount of investment?
A. Just like an ordinary savings account, an investor has to open an account and present valid identification with a broker before he can actively trade SDT-Bonds on the Exchange. An investor would need at least the minimum amount of investment which is Php 5,000.00.

Q. How is the SDT-Bond quoted on the PSE?
A. The price of the SDT-Bonds will be quoted as a percentage of its face value up to the sixth decimal place. For example, a bond with a face value of Php 5,000 is quoted at 99.000001. The market value of the bond is Php 4,950.00005 (5,000 x 0.99000001)

Q. What are the factors that could affect SDT-Bond prices?
A. The most important determinant of bond prices is the level of prevailing interest rate. As a general rule, the price of a bond tend to increase if prevailing interest rates fall and tend to decline as the interest rate increase. Other factors which could affect bond prices thru the level of interest rates are business cycle, inflation rate and flow of funds.

Q. Are all member-brokers allowed to trade SDT-Bonds?
A. Not all brokers can trade SDT-Bonds. As of 24 August 2001, there are at least eleven (11) brokers accredited and allowed to trade SDT-Bonds, these are:

Abacus Securities Corporation
DBP-Daiwa Sec. SB Cap. Markets Phils., Inc
G. D. Tan and Company, Inc.
JSG Securities, Inc.
RCBC Securities, Inc
Wellex Global Equities, Inc.
BA Securities, Inc
F. Yap Securities, Inc
ICG Securities, Inc
Lucky Securities, Inc
Solar Securities, Inc


Q. How long is the settlement period for SDT-Bonds?
A. Unlike stocks which are settled three days after the transaction date (T+3), trade on the SDT-Bonds shall be settled on the same day (T+0) when the trade is transacted.

Source: Philippine Stock Exchange

Thanks again Spy for the info! :)

[NoisyCricket]

Would anyone like to invest in real estate?

Ayala Land has two pre-selling condominium projects here sa Makati, which would make good investments. Trying to see nga if I can finance kahit a studio!

One is One Legazpi Place, a 45-storey high-end residential condominium located on Rada street, two blocks away from Greenbelt. (Beside the funny looking Church). Choose from a selection of Studios, One-BR, Two-BR, and Three-BR units. Bi-level and Garden units also available.

The other is a project which will only begin selling December 2, 2002. It's called The Columns, also by Ayala Land. This project is a series of 3 buildings, 30 stories, with grand lobby, 25-meter pool, gym and fitness center, day care center, exercise circuits, podium jogging path, game room, meditation alcoves, wine cellar, 5 levels of above ground parking. Location is on the corner of Ayala and Buendia, opposite Makati Med. Studio, 1-BR, and 2-BR units available.

:D Email NoisyCricket for more info :) (vmanlapaz@one.com.ph)

[nano]

Hi guys!:) Am not really familiar in the "ins" and "outs" of mutual funds, bonds and stocks. I need your expertise with regards to these topics. Kindly recommend some reading materials, websites, or the like for me to know more about the above matter. I am very keen in investing while I am still not that old :D . Thanks a lot in advance.

[NoisyCricket]

there are already a good number of threads on this topic, and you are free to look them up.

The only thing I wish to tell you at the moment, is to be aware of something called the Risk-Reward Trade-off. All it means, really is that no guts, no glory. The higher returns you want, the higher the risks you will have to endure.

BEWARE for example, if this is a time when you may even be DESPERATE to make as much money as you can, in the shortest amount of time, be careful. There are many people out there who will promise you the moon, and end up really stealing your money. These are the times when people are most vulnerable to scams like Multitel and Glasgow. They promise what? 4% net monthly or 15% interest while banks give off only 1%? Who wouldn't be enticed?

Well, needless to say, if you invested in Multitel or Glasgow, jokes on you, pal, they just ran off with your money. Believe me, people will say ANYTHING to get you to trust them. They're really nice at first, but their true colors show once they've got your money.

But of course, there's a huge difference between RISK and SCAM. If you invest in San Miguel corporate bonds, there's risk there that San Miguel defaults (which is not likely), but you can tell they are not a scam. Beware of some forex houses especially. Not ONLY is there great RISK there (you could lose all your money in a day if you have a lousy trader), but some are actually scams that look like the real thing.

If you're going to turn over money, ask where it is going, have everything documented. Where is my money going? Which bank? Here or abroad? Does the company have the papers to prove all of this? If there is no paper trail, well then, if the company itself cannot even track where your money went, then obviously it went into the owner's pockets. Do people do this? You bet.

So yun lang. Risk Reward trade-off. You want big bucks, be prepared for big risks -- and the big risks sometimes mean you get nothing back if your manager is not careful. And people don't invest because they want to lose all of their money! Small risk, small money nga lang :)

[nano]

Thanks for the advice NoisyCricket. Almost everybody wants to get rich in an instant. The sooner the possible ika nga. But as I've said before, am not that old pa naman to be in a rush to have plenty of money in my pocket. Though it would be better if I'd get rich in the shortest time possible. But you are right. The bigger the money, the greater the risk involved. So, if I may ask, aside from banks, can you suggest where could I invest my money for it to grow? It does not necessarily be quick but it must be legal and with higher percentage when speaking of return of interest. Again, thanks for the info, man. I'll bear that it mind.

[NoisyCricket]

that was exactly what I and my boss were talking about yesterday as a matter of fact. I said that basically if, thinking as a businessman thinks, stocks, bonds, mutual funds and all the rest of it, just divert your attention from using the capital into what it should be used for -- expanding your business. In that sense, why dilute your capital spending on stocks, bonds, mf's (which you don't really know as much about compared with your own business which supposedly you DO know about). If you had a construction business for example, or real estate, or manufacturing, or whatever. You have 10M in capital. It makes more sense for you to keep on ploughing in the money to purchase more raw materials, labor, etc., for longer term profits, rather than spending it on stocks, which may or may not earn you anything in the short term.

My boss countered by saying it depends on how liquid you are or what your financial habits are. If your income (whether by salary or business) is fairly regular and consistent, then you can afford to take greater risks. However if your income is NOT as consistent, your salary cannot make do, it does not make sense for you to have a risky portfolio. :)

But going back to your real question, where to park your funds, the Ayala Life Fixed Income fund is one. That has grown on the average 7-8% over the last 3 years. KD also says the Philam Dollar Fund is good as well, and I am currently doing some research about a Pioneer Allianz insurance hybrid Policy Fund Rider that is supposed to bring in 8% net and no withholding tax.. hehehe :)

[bluechips]

okay itong topic na 'to ha!

how about government bonds? where do we get those?

[lupuS]

A few days ago the Republic of the Philippines issued $500 million worth of sovereign bonds due 2013 at a yield of about 9.5% pa. This is not a bad deal, considering that the yield is similar to debt of some Latin American countries with lower credit ratings.

A lot of these bonds will find their way into the secondary market.

While these bonds will not provide country diversification if your money is already in dollars (indeed, it might reduce it if you are a Filipino), it does provide a better yield than cash or time deposits.

[bluechips]

i didn't know they issued bonds recently...would you know which banks I can visit for this? Just want to set aside some monies for the rainy days, my spending habits are terrible.

[boyong]

This is a very informative topic. I am also interested to learn the stock market pero couldn't find a mentor.

uhm...ehem... richyuppie, do you still conduct free presentations? pwede ba kita maging mentor?

[mai_1]

regarding SDT bonds,


kahit sino ba pwedeng mag-invest sa ganyan as long as the person has at least P5,000 at may peso bank account? papano ba yan, let's say, at anytime, nagkaron ka ulit ng at least P5,000, pwede ka na lang ba basta punta dun sa authorized broker then bili ka nun to invest? anytime ba, available ang SDT bonds?

and, 13.625% per annum pa rin ba ang interest rate? di ba nababago yan? if nabago na, how much na these days?


will eagerly wait for responses. tnx a lot. :)

[lupuS]

This investment opportunity hits the market this month.

Security: Retail Treasury Bonds, 4th Tranche
Issuer: Republic of the Philippines
Tenor: 3 and 5 years from issue date
Issue Size: P10,000,000,000.00
Minimum Investment Amount: P5,000.00
Coupon Rate (Interest): Determined by auction, not to exceed MART1 yield for 3 and 5r years less 6.25 bps, rounded to nearest 1/8 of 1%. Indicative maximum coupon: 10.125% pa for 3 years and 11.125% pa for 5 years.
Interest Payment: Quarterly in arrears.
Redemption: Par
Taxation: 20% final withholding tax on interest
Offer Period: June 2003

[Carpe_Diem_Z]

Originally posted by lupuS
This investment opportunity hits the market this month.

Security: Retail Treasury Bonds, 4th Tranche
Issuer: Republic of the Philippines
Tenor: 3 and 5 years from issue date
Issue Size: P10,000,000,000.00
Minimum Investment Amount: P5,000.00
Coupon Rate (Interest): Determined by auction, not to exceed MART1 yield for 3 and 5r years less 6.25 bps, rounded to nearest 1/8 of 1%. Indicative maximum coupon: 10.125% pa for 3 years and 11.125% pa for 5 years.
Interest Payment: Quarterly in arrears.
Redemption: Par
Taxation: 20% final withholding tax on interest
Offer Period: June 2003

A few questions from a noob investor on RTB's. :confused:

1. How do I acquire RTBs? Banks or brokers? Where is the BEST place to buy RTBs?
2. If I get a 3-yr RTB less tax it would be 8.1% right and 8.9% for 5-yr RTbs. Still better than other investment vehicle.
2. Will they issue it this coming June 17 and 25?

Thanks :)

[KuyaDanny]

Most banks should be able to get some for you. Right now the banks I deal with are polling their clients to see if there is interest, and getting indications on how much their clients might buy. Then they will assemble these "orders" and compete in the auction.

I am told that it is likely that the issue will be sold out, so the relevant question should be "which bank will have RTBs to sell to me?" instead of "where is the best place to buy RTBs?"

As for the specific issue dates, I haven't gotten a definite answer from the banks.

[SILENTMAX]

kuya d

when you meant "banks" does it mean all branches will have it for sale?

lets say bpi would bid for some. would they distribute it within the branches?

i might get some:
at 5000 minimum investment seams like a a good alternative instead of puting your money into a time deposit.

[KuyaDanny]

I don't know exactly how each bank operates, but I'm thinking the "stock" of securities will be managed at the head office. If you go to your branch looking for RTBs what they will probably do is call their head office and make known your interest, and maybe get you an allocation.

[Spyfrat]

gud gud up na pex :yum:
baka sa landbank meron.

[KuyaDanny]

Originally posted by Carpe_Diem_Z
2. Will they issue it this coming June 17 and 25?


Offer period: 16-24 June 2003
Issue date: 27 June 2003

[Carpe_Diem_Z]

Originally posted by Spyfrat
gud gud up na pex
baka sa landbank meron.

Originally posted by KuyaDanny
Offer period: 16-24 June 2003
Issue date: 27 June 2003

Thank you very much for the info. :)

Why is it that different banks have a different rate of selling Bonds and Bills? For example, If I opt to buy 3yr RTB's which the gov't issues at 10.125% pa coupon rate. Some banks will sell it at 9.75%, 9.5%, 9.25%, etc. coupon rate (which is still subject to 20% tax). If my analogy is correct, the percentage they take of the original coupon rate is the bank's profit?

[leonnie]

hi! im just curious what IPO's are and are there companies offering this?is this a high-risk,high-yield investment?

[KuyaDanny]

Originally posted by Carpe_Diem_Z
If my analogy is correct, the percentage they take of the original coupon rate is the bank's profit? [/B]

In a way, yes.

But also remember that 10.125% is an indicative maximum coupon rate, meaning the actual rate could and probably will be lower. Banks will bid for the bonds and those willing to accept lower rates will more likely end up buying them (to lower the government's borrowing cost). The rates being quoted to the public are a combination of the bank's estimate of what they will actually end up receiving from the government, less their profit.

[boyong]

interesting ang RTB's a...

may alam ba kayong short term lang. yung a few months to 2 years lang nakatali pera ko.

right now, i'm eyeing yung metro fund (metrobank). makiki-ride lang ako sa mom ko to get the maximum interest rate of 5.7% net. P50,000 ang minimum investment dito.

i read in the papers last week that psbank is offering interest 6% net pero minimum niya P100,000 locked in for 12 years.

if you know of anymore short term investing (1-2 years), feel free to post it. thanks...

[balanuS]

Can I sell RTBs before maturity?

[Hulk]

Hi everybody! It's nice to be back! :wave:

RTB's by their very nature are tradeable, that means you can buy and sell them. The only problem lies with the bank that sold it to you. Some banks might have minimum trading lots that they discourage you from selling your previously bought RTBs by giving you an unattractive bid.

Theoretically you can sell it to another bank, but the hassle of having it transferred from one securities account to another might give you headaches. I suggest you consult the selling bank, and quiz them on this matter before buying them.

If you want to buy this security, I suggest you approach government banks (i.e Landbank). Some of the big boys (i.e. foreign banks) don't want to involve themselves with the retail market.


:frank: <--- Showing on June 19th

[nomads]

RTB's are 9.5% for three years and 10.5% @ 5? True?:confused:

[SILENTMAX]

can i invest in the philiphine index? phisix and such?

where can u usualy buy these sa broker rin? or from a special firm?

[BabadSaComputer]

Originally posted by boyong

if you know of anymore short term investing (1-2 years), feel free to post it. thanks...

Besides stocks, you can invest in time deposits. Term of investment vary from 30 to 90 days, or even longer, depending on the bank. Some banks offer floating interest rates (ie. depending on the market rate), and others fixed. Chinabank has its Special Savings Deposit with a minimum of P50k and a floating interest. Last May 2003, the rate of 5.5% for P50k to P100k for 30 days. Quite good for a very short-term investment. The rate will vary depending on the 91-day T-Bill rates (which I believe has slightly dipped this June 2003). :D

:jbravo:

[BabadSaComputer]

Originally posted by Hulk

If you want to buy this security, I suggest you approach government banks (i.e Landbank). Some of the big boys (i.e. foreign banks) don't want to involve themselves with the retail market.


:frank: <--- Showing on June 19th

I don't get the concrete reason why we should approach gov't banks instead of private banks. Does it have to do with interest rates? Please enlighten us. Thanks! :D

:jbravo:

[KuyaDanny]

Why government banks?

1) They will tend to be more willing to serve retail customers like you and me.
2) Landbank might even be able to help you get RTBs via primary issue (direct from the government, not the secondary market). This helps you minimize or eliminate the spread.

[BabadSaComputer]

Originally posted by KuyaDanny
Why government banks?

1) They will tend to be more willing to serve retail customers like you and me.
2) Landbank might even be able to help you get RTBs via primary issue (direct from the government, not the secondary market). This helps you minimize or eliminate the spread.

Thanks! BTW, since you're from Makati, would you know any Landbank, Development Bank, or other gov't banks nearby or within Metro Manila. TIA again! :D

:jbravo:

[Hulk]

Originally posted by nomads
RTB's are 9.5% for three years and 10.5% @ 5? True?:confused:

That's high. Quotes for 3 years are around 9% and 10.125% for 5 years.


:frank:

[lupuS]

RTB Tranche 4 rates were fixed today.

Coupon:

3 years 9.5% pa
5 years 10.375% pa

Issue date will be 07-01-03

[lupuS]

UCPB eXtreme Time Deposit (XTD)

Long term time deposit with floating interest rate.

Tenor: 61 months
Taxability: Not subject to final withholding tax
Interest: Repriced monthly and credited monthly

Interest today:
6.66% pa (P100,000 - P1.0 million)
7.16% pa (over P1.0 million - P5.0 million)
7.66% pa (over P5.0 million)

[Barry77]

Do you need to keep your money with the bank for at least five years to avail of the tax-free privilege?

This is usually the case with other banks.


> UCPB eXtreme Time Deposit (XTD)

> Long term time deposit with floating interest rate.

> Tenor: 61 months
> Taxability: Not subject to final withholding tax
> Interest: Repriced monthly and credited monthly

[lupuS]

Yes. That is why the tenor is 61 months.

[Hulk]

Yes, the BIR only allows bank's liabilities to be tax-exempt if they are for more than five years.

Where is the floating rate of UCPB XTD based on?


:frank:

[Barry77]

How stupid of me. Akala ko 61 days. =)

Anybody here know of other high-yielding 5-year time deposit products? The best I've seen offers 9.5% net of taxes, with interest payments credited monthly. Anything higher out there?

Another question. Is the interest rate of the recently issued 5-year Retail Treasury Bonds subject to withholding tax?

> Yes. That is why the tenor is 61 months.

[life_bunny]

Hi,

Just my two cents worth. If the accumulation of the amoun of money is a high motivation for you to invest, then I would think that going for a financial package with a financial company would be preferable to banks as banks will rarely go over the 10% mark of interest rates.

Though the draw back is that your money will be tied down for a longer period of time. Take for example a product being offered right now, with a total investment of about P60,000, the money can be converted to an amount of over P500,000 in 20 years time.

Thats an amount of about 12-13% interest over the span of 20 years.

Though, again, the drawback is the lockdown of your $ for the span of the program.

For more info philamazon@yahoo.com

[SILENTMAX]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ponzi :mad:

there is nothing new under the sun its not what you do but how its done -nas

i have never believed in easy money- silentmax

no such thing. no such thing.

[Spyfrat]

ang puso mo master :D

[lupuS]

Originally posted by Hulk
Where is the floating rate of UCPB XTD based on?


"Earn as much as 2% over the current 91-day T-bills"

[lupuS]

Originally posted by Barry77
Another question. Is the interest rate of the recently issued 5-year Retail Treasury Bonds subject to withholding tax?


Interest payments on 3 and 5 year bonds are subject to 20% final withholding tax.

[lupuS]

Originally posted by life_bunny
Thats an amount of about 12-13% interest over the span of 20 years.


How long has this company been operating? I would hesitate to place 20-year money in a company that hasn't been around 20 years. Even if they say that past performance is not a gauge of future events.

20 years is a long time, and a lot of things can happen. In the last 20 years, savings deposit interest rates went from 7% to 2%, our country declared a debt moratorium, the exchange rate went frpm P11 to P53, and two presidents were removed from office. That's a lot of uncertainty and risk right there. I would not wish to add to it by locking in my money in a financial institution whose name I do not even know.

[thehitman]

lupuS: He's affiliated with Philamlife, and the vehicle he's referring to is insurance.

Which brings me to a question: is insurance a good investment? Life insurance products are payable in 5-7 years, the ones I've seen anyway, and then they give dividends earned by the policy from time to time. Any inputs on this?

7.6% net for a 3-year placement...not bad, not bad at all. :)

:cool:

[marlo_kalbo]

It's a good investment if you don't want to learn to invest. The percentages are better than those given by banks.

Take note that if you are going to apply for a participating policy, where you'll receive dividends, your premiums will be higher than normal. 20% I think.

Take note, however, that to be good in investing, you must at least out-perform inflation. But that takes research, stock selection if you are into stocks, market research if you are into real estate, etc.

-marlo

[life_bunny]

Originally posted by lupuS
How long has this company been operating? I would hesitate to place 20-year money in a company that hasn't been around 20 years. Even if they say that past performance is not a gauge of future events.

20 years is a long time, and a lot of things can happen. In the last 20 years, savings deposit interest rates went from 7% to 2%, our country declared a debt moratorium, the exchange rate went frpm P11 to P53, and two presidents were removed from office. That's a lot of uncertainty and risk right there. I would not wish to add to it by locking in my money in a financial institution whose name I do not even know.

hitman is right, i'm affiliated with philamlife, and i am not making aplug or anything but just sharing my two cents worth. a lot of people don't have the luxury of time and the resources to go into the research of possible investments, and such research takes time and the constant lookout of the good one. having an investment policy with a financial institution takes away these burdens, though, I do agree that this will not teach you how to invest in a sense that the money you put in is managed by other people, the track record of philamlife speaks for itself.

inflation and the degradation of the value of our money is one of the things that we just have to live with. no one wants to be caught in that situation where the money you earned will be worth such a small amount in the future...whether you keep it in the bank, invest it in other places, or put it in an investment policy, the value will still go down, the consolation would be that you should place it somewhere it will grow more and that is, in my view the essense of investingyour money.

apologies for the typos...

[SILENTMAX]

forgive me for the flare-up i have a crusade against get rich quick schemes. saw too many losses of friends and love ones

pareng spy: ok lang puso ko malikot ang market :D


there is an ing near us they are offering a similar deal but with a 1m payout. i forgot what was the startup

ive read some about life insurance i'll post what i found out.

btw in my opinion this should just be part of ones investing startegy and not as a whole. one should have a balance investment portfolio of bonds, re and securities :)

btw the markets been rallying!! 12 month high. go philippines!!!!

[Spyfrat]

horni market indeed :) kaso kapag tapos na labada ** baka biglang tapos na rin kaligayahan sa p6.

[SILENTMAX]

uncertenty breeds anxiety. ilang months nalang malapit na matapos yung labada.

hmmm observe and strike.

[SILENTMAX]

este surgical strikes :)

tanong lang. is the current rally in the u.s. affecting our rally here or sarili nating rali to tungkol sa gdp natin??? hmmm

tama na nga tong spekulation mag bebenta muna ako nang fishball sa tabi nang elementary dito samin. :p

[Spyfrat]

sariling rali i think boss max :)
ini e spoil tayo ng mga labandero e :D

[SILENTMAX]

lets talk about rtb's

do they pay out the interest yearly or one time when you cash it in?

i was told, that you had to open a savings account at landbank(if you purchased it there) to have a way to deposit your earned interest

can anybody clarify this?

[KuyaDanny]

Interest will be paid quarterly.

As a matter of convenience, interest payments are made by credit to your deposit account usually in the same bank you bought your bonds from. In my case, I will be buying some RTBs from BPI Capital Corporation and interest payments will be credited to my BPI current account.

[SILENTMAX]

thanks KD

i'll be getting mine tomorrow im getting it at my local bpi bank (who would have thought?) i was informed that it was only for reservation and the release of the actual certificate is july

the 3 years is 9.25(dont quote me on this basta line of 9) and the 5 years is 10.25 seams like a good deal.

thanks for all the help :)

[hosel]

Originally posted by raven23
You'll have to consider, first and foremost, your income versus your capacity for savings / investment.

For example, if your income is, say, P100,000 a month, of which you hypothetically spend P30,000 of which on monthly expenses (rent, food, etc.). That leaves you P70,000 of 'disposable income'. Suppose, furthermore, you spend P20,000 on luxuries or non-essentials. That leaves P50,000.

Out of P50,000, you'll need to budget a certain amount for 'liquid' savings -- i.e., a savings that you can 'dip into' for say, unemployment or other contingencies. Say you budget P20,000 a month for this.

That leaves P30,000 a month you can then 'invest'.

Now, your investment style will again largely depend upon your investment goals and your risk-tolerance. Your goals could be one or combination of: Long-term savings (> 10 years), for a retirement / pension
Medium-term savings (5-10 years), say, to buy a house
Short-term savings (3-5 years), say, to get married / buy a car
Near-term investments (1-2 years), just to have more income
Depending upon your goal or combination of goals, you should then decide upon the appropriate mix of investment 'instruments' which give varying rates of return, at varying risk, with different time frames. Examples would be: Insurance - long-term, low risk, low-return
Fixed-rate instruments: time-deposits, treasury bills, bonds - medium-term, low-risk, medium-return
Real-estate - long-term, low-risk, low-liquidity, but inflation-beater (possibly high-returns, too)
Ordinary savings - short to medium-term, low-risk, low-return
Mutual funds & blue-chip stocks (established companies with long history) - short to long-term, low to medium-risk, low to medium-returns
Foreign-exchange & speculative stocks (IPOs, new companies) - short-term, high-risk, high-returns
Am just an armchair economist / finance guy, so professional analysts please feel free to correct / supplement.

Oh, and don't take my word for it. As with health, consult with a professional -- if you have a friend who's into finance, then great, otherwise, hire an accountant / fund manager.

Good luck!

Thanks, raven!

Pero, 10% is all I can save..:~(

Saklap!

:~(

[BabadSaComputer]

Last day of RTB offer period is tomorrow...June 23, 2003. FYI. Sayang din yun... :D

:jbravo:

[chalita]

hey guyz..i'm just 19 and somewhat i understand, somewhat not the stuff ur talking about..my dilemma, i'm currently earning my own money, but i'm in LA, doesn't pay too much bills and got savings, the thing is i really want to invest my money into something not just place it in a savings account...cud somebody help me figure out some stuff first...i also read that u cud buy stocks for Php1,500 or more, i cud probably take risk for $50 a month.. so any suggestion?

[SILENTMAX]

ur in l.a. sa states!!!! thats good

first max out on your ira or 401k

pay all your credit cards

invest in the index market

invest in a stock called berkshire hathaway "brkb" it cost's 2450 right now but the price is well worth it.

ei guys lets help her out suggestions naman dyan :)

[chalita]

i'm currently reading motley fools investment..i found their site... i'm still researching the stuff about long term and short term investments...and the difference between roth ira and ira....its kinda difficult for me coz some of the lingos they use is somewhat uncomprehendable for me...i'd really appreciate the help guyz

[SILENTMAX]

i personally like smart money "the magazine of wall st journal"

ok rin money and motley fool.

read read read read :)

[snop]

Originally posted by chalita
i'm currently reading motley fools investment..i found their site... i'm still researching the stuff about long term and short term investments...and the difference between roth ira and ira....its kinda difficult for me coz some of the lingos they use is somewhat uncomprehendable for me...i'd really appreciate the help guyz

You came to the right place in this friendly and educational thread!

You can also join Philstock.net forum (http://www.philstocks.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi) where you can ask your questions and be replied to by kind posters like spyfrat and silentmax in greater detail...both long and short-term investing in RE, stocks and bonds.

If you can't afford BRK-B that Silentmax recommended, try
DRIPs Dividend Re-Investment Programs (http://www.dripadvisor.com/) for long-term investment using only $10-20 of your non-grocery money monthly/bi-annually or as often as you wish.

BTW, Roth IRA is the best self-directed form of investing because the proceeds are tax-free when you retire .

I admire your willingness to learn how to invest at your age. More power to you and tribe!

Good Luck!
:)

[chalita]

hey... thank u guys for all the help... i really wanna know more about this investment stuff....keep posting.. :) ...and i wish that by the next two months i may be able to do it with all the knowledgeable stuff ur postings and i'm reading..

[chalita]

is it realy possible to loose all ur money u've invested in a moneymarket?

[KuyaDanny]

Yes it is possible. If the institution you placed your money with goes bankrupt, repayment will be difficult.

Since you're in the US, maybe there's some form of insurance for money market investments (similar to FDIC for bank deposits). That might offer some protection.

[tondo boy]

Thanks, KD and y'all!:)

[chalita]

just this morning, somebody told me that it would be difficult to invest for now..especially the economy's down..even here in LA? so, what d'ya think? do i still proceed?

[marlo_kalbo]

If all you are ever gonna invest in is in mutual funds, then the answer is no

Of course if that is not the case, you probably won't be asking this question anyway.

-marlo

[marlo_kalbo]

I sound sarcrastic :( but I don't mean it that way. :)

-marlo

[velocity000]

Marlo:
are u investing in USA stocks online? Do u know how to do it?

[chalita]

what i need for now is short term investment coz i might need the money after 3 years or so...hmmmzzz....so waht cud be ur suggestions?

[SILENTMAX]

"never follow the crowd" -a wise lemming

heard mentality says you should'nt invest becouse economy is down, but what you should do exactly is "invest" never listen to people they are sheep.......

what i do is listen to what other people say and do exactly the oposite based on my own sound judgment.

i suggest stocks. or 3 year bonds.


velocity: ameritrade can handle foreign clients just dl their form sheet and submit.when alls good and done wire the money

[SILENTMAX]

theres a method thats catching on in the states its called laddering

in example in bonds:

you have p300,000 to invest

first year invest 100,000 in 3 year bonds
2nd year invest 100,000 in 3 year bonds
3rd year invest 100,000 in 3 year bonds
4th year cash in on your 100,000 3 year bond then reinvest more or less of that 100,000
5th,6th,7th, on an on

so every year you always have money and interest :)
neat :D

this keeps you liquid. :)

hth :)

ps: it might not be new so pls forgive me.......

[Marvel]

Originally posted by velocity000
Marlo:
are u investing in USA stocks online? Do u know how to do it?

Velocity000, if your purpose is to become a day trader you have to pic a company who doesn't charge too much on comission. Companies can charge from $5 to $20 per trade and possibly more.

Any company usually require you to open an account with a minimum balance, once again it differs for each company. It usually starts at $1,000 to open an account.

Common companies include Fidelity, Vanguard, E-trade, Ameritrade and more. You can do more research on the web.

[Marvel]

Originally posted by chalita
just this morning, somebody told me that it would be difficult to invest for now..especially the economy's down..even here in LA? so, what d'ya think? do i still proceed?

Hi Chalita, you can't go wrong with real estate here in LA right now. If you can afford to buy a house, condo, townhome or just even a vacant lot, buy now! The rates are it's lowest in years. Population is expected to double in 7 years, housing supply is very low and it's just going to get even worse, housing is really going to get so expensive in the next few years. One of the property i owned in West Hills gained $125G in equity in a period of two years. I bought one last November 2002 and has gained at least $40G in equity in a matter of 7 months.
The same properties that I checked in the Porter Ranch area (Sorrento development to be specific) has raised it's selling price by $90G by just a matter of one year period.

I have stock investments, mostly mutual funds and my experience in the last three years was just to see it lose 35% from it's peak.
It's tempting to buy stocks now because it's low but still I don't see the market going up in the next year or so, it's pretty flat right now. :)

[norieb]

Marvel,

How much ang property tax dyan sa LA? Pareho din ba sa San Diego?

TY