ADMU changes

[freespirit]

are the changes in ADMU all for the better? ano nga ba ang mga bagong changes, specifically sa curriculum ng mga courses?

[angst]

There were a lot of changes. Nagbago na ang core curriculum. Less Philo, Theo, History and Foreign Lang courses.

[freespirit]

eh di ang konti na tlaga ng mga mapag-aralan nila? :bookworm:

it kinda ruins the atenean image and signature don't you think? :unhappy:

:hmm: :uh: :wondering:

[angst]

Originally posted by freespirit
eh di ang konti na tlaga ng mga mapag-aralan nila? :bookworm:

it kinda ruins the atenean image and signature don't you think? :unhappy:

:hmm: :uh: :wondering:

That's true! That's why, they say that our batch (batch 2001, the last batch to have the original core curriculum) is said to be the last batch of the super Ateneans. :)

[bAbOi_AdMU]

Di nga ako mashadong na-prepressure sa work load ko ngayon eh! surpising nga eh!

[freespirit]

:unhappy:

sayang naman that they would do that. :ayaw:

[melboy36]

this is in line with Father Nebres' thrust of making specialists out of Ateneans. mathematician kase siya. survey shows that ateneo is lagging behind (although, i think this is not true) in the sciences and in other technical fields such as management and math. kaya nga ginawa ang science education center/complex (SEC). yun yung bagong building sa gitna na parang great wall of china.

some reasons given for the new curriculum is for the students to have more time in studying the subjects that are specific to their major/concentration.

personally, hindi ito maganda kasi napakahalaga ng philo, theo, at ng ibang humanities subjects. my philo teacher went as far to discuss the number of philo subjects na kinuha ng "great" ateneans like manny pangilinan....ehehhe...dito ako hindi agree dahil ***** yun. at any rate, the ateneo is converting from a liberal arts school into a technical school. parang Cambridge turning into Michigan Institute of technology.

[freespirit]

i don't like. parang nawawala nga ang signature ng pagka-atenista. :sad:

[Exterminator]

There will be other changes such as new courses.

For instance, there will be a new MS Environmental Management degree which will be jointly offered by AdMU and University of San Francisco beginning next school year.

There will be a MS Electronics & Communications Engineering degree that will be offered either next year or the year after.

There will also be a new PhD Atmospheric Physics degree.

In addition, they are looking into, possibly, BS Chemical Engineering and BS Electrical Engineering. Other possibilities are: BS Materials Science and Genetic Engineering, Bio-Chemistry or Molecular Biology.

There will be a new Ateneo School of Medicine that will open in 2003 or 2004. This will be located in the new building that will be adjacent to the 700+ room Medical City that is being constructed in Pasig.

Other developments in the works are: a new campus in Canlubang, a new School of Management that will be built in Loyola Heights, a new Church of Gesu, a third in-campus dormitory building, etc.

There are more that I can't, unfortunately, mention in this public forum.

All I can say is that there are a lot of reasons to be excited about. We should all be proud. The future begins here.....in Ateneo.

AMDG

[freespirit]

wow! thank's for the medyo in-depth details exterminator! :)

however, i think the lost units in theo and philo are sayang. that's one of the factors that differentiates the atenean from all others eh.

[nono]

effective next year, the sophomores will no longer be in blocks. blocking will only be applicable to freshies. as for the current sophs, next sem lottery na sila.

[freespirit]

actually, that's cool. :belat:

:glee: sophies would at least get the chance to "practice" putting on their running shoes and getting up super early in the morning. that way, come junior and senior year...they are experts na! :lol:

[noisap]

honestly, ok lang ang curriculum ko sa com,
except for ROTC!

pero, somehow I feel it will not develop me to m7y fullest potential.

go BLOCK A, 2002!

[kreyes]

may changes ba ang ateneo rgdg acceptance of transferree- more lenient or are they gona accept transferree in a per sem basis kesa once a yr lang?:hmm:

[ginoledesma]

Originally posted by melboy36
parang Cambridge turning into Michigan Institute of technology.

Michigan or Massachusetts?

Anyway, to clarify a bit, the change did not necessarily mean removing outright some subjects without compensating for those. Removing some subjects meant basically squeezing them into existing subjects. For instance, Th11 + Th21 = Th121.

Granted, the current "compressed" subjects are probably in no way as in-depth as their former, but with that the curriculum may have gained something new as well.

ther developments in the works are: a new campus in Canlubang, a new School of Management that will be built in Loyola Heights, a new Church of Gesu, a third in-campus dormitory building, etc.

The new School of Management (SOM) will be the 4th wing of the Science Education Complex, and the PLDT Center for Convergence of Information Communications Technology (aka IT Building; what a lot of jargon/buzz words) will be the 5th wing. These two additional wings will lie across PIPAC and complete the Science Education Complex.

In addition to that, having read Guidon's latest release, there should also be a new building/location for the ARPT, and hopefully/probably a renovation of the Covered Courts and/or Loyola Gym.




nono, what you said about the block system changes effective next year is rather... interesting. Where did you find that out? :|

kreyes, I'm not sure if acceptance of transferees has changed. Ateneo seems to be accepting more students nowadays, but I don't know how it has affected that (of which you mentioned).

[Ali]

Well, it would be sad if the Ateneo actually decides to water down its humanities education, particularly in Philosophy and Theology. And many people perceive the reduction of units as a sign that the Ateneo is reducing its liberal arts emphasis.

However, a reduction in units is not necessarily a reduction in quality.

True, classroom time has been reduced, but this is in order that both teachers and students may explore learning possibilities outside the four walls of the classroom. I think the reduction in units is concrete action on the Ateneo's part. The school wishes to send a very real and very important message that school should never get in the way of real education.

Notice that the 'lost' units were not used for more major subjects. In fact, all courses were asked to reduce their load.

That's the thinking behind the changes in the curriculum. Some people argue that it's not really working, and that the students' extra time isn't really being used to learn outside the classroom. But that's a different story.

[candycane]

this is not in line with the topic on admu changes.. i just wanted to confirm txt msgs circulating about fr. ferriols. i heard he has prostate cancer and will not be teaching anymore. is this really true? if it were, i'm glad i had him for philo 103 and 104.

[bugsbunny]

Fr. Ferriols will not be teaching Ph 103 anymore. However, he will still teach the Ph 101 classes.

[freespirit]

Originally posted by candycane
this is not in line with the topic on admu changes.. i just wanted to confirm txt msgs circulating about fr. ferriols. i heard he has prostate cancer and will not be teaching anymore. is this really true? if it were, i'm glad i had him for philo 103 and 104.


is this true? :o

[candycane]

Originally posted by freespirit



is this true? :o


i'm not really sure nga eh. though someone said he'll be teaching philo 101 and 102 still. well, let's just wish he'll be well longer enough for students to get the chance to take his class.

[freespirit]

hope he's (ferriols) ok. he's quite a legendary figure sa admu faculty eh. *okay*

[pyket]

my mind is engaging in some mental calisthenics (correct my assumptions/conclusions if i'm wrong, please):

there are a lot of jesuit universities abroad, this i am sure of. to name a few: Fordham University (NY, NY), Boston College (Chestnut Hill, MA), Santa Clara University (Santa Clara, CA), The University of San Francisco (SF, CA), and of course, Geogetown University (Washington, D.C.). knowing this:


1) will the ateneo ever follow most of these universities with their inclination towards RESEARCH? or is it really true that filipino culture does not provide the proper atmosphere for such an academic research culture? is it really too difficult, or is it just a hassle that nobody wants to take up and tackle? where will we get the money? instead of focusing on our basketball/sports program, the alumni can be tapped in this area. i mean, if they can 'donate' thousands of dollars to buy NBA flooring for the gym, they can very well donate thousands of dollars for infrastructure, facilities and research.


2) when will the ateneo formalize its ties with the jesuit academic community? i've never really seen foreign jesuit administrators visiting campus, or visiting professors, etc. i remember a story from a friend of mine who applied in a jesuit university for her masteral degree. the university's admissions officer (i forget the exact circumstances) never even heard of the ateneo de manila. formal ties linking the two institutions, as i see it, give the ateneo several distinct advantages/benefits. to name a few:

a. students seeking possible transfer to foreign jesuit universities (whether undergrad, or graduate) have an easier time transfering (even if it is just the credited courses, or even simply the waiving of the SATs or TOEFL or a graduate 'entrance exam').

b. study abroad opportunities for students who wish to do so (i know that we already have this, but still, i'm thinking in terms of the benefits/perks of a truly well-established exchange program).

c. scholarships offered to a select number of worthy students for admission/transfer to their universities. or even more ACADEMIC or need-based scholarships in the ateneo.

d. a teacher/professor exchange program (i'm not sure if they're called visiting fellows).

e. GRANTS from the wealthier universities to help support the program of the ateneo (whether if it chooses to go into research, or just plain infrastructure/facilities upgrade, or even in the development of curricula).


about the comment on the signature of the atenean being theo, philo, and the rest of the humanities. i have to admit, that is true. but i don't think the ateneo IS merely the summation of its humanities courses. but i honestly think (sorry if i offend some of others' sensibilities here) that specialization on whatever major/concentration (even on the undergraduate level) sorely lags behind that of our other counterparts (both abroad and locally). i guess this is one of my own pet-peeves about the university. whenever people outside of the university think of the ateneo, they think precisely of that 'signature.' they think: Philo, Theo, the humanities. when they hear of biology, chemistry, physics, they think U.P. the ateneo has been labelled for the longest with that whole english, philosophy, theology, history tag. i don't see anything wrong with that per se. but what i see wrong is the 'lag' in the specialized sciences. i guess it's about time that we showed the others that there's definitely more to the atenean signature than just that.

[MEM]

Originally posted by Exterminator
...In addition, they are looking into, possibly, BS Chemical Engineering and BS Electrical Engineering. Other possibilities are: BS Materials Science and Genetic Engineering, Bio-Chemistry or Molecular Biology....
AMDG

What about BS Manufacturing Engineeering and Management, BS

[MEM]

Originally posted by Exterminator
...In addition, they are looking into, possibly, BS Chemical Engineering and BS Electrical Engineering. Other possibilities are: BS Materials Science and Genetic Engineering, Bio-Chemistry or Molecular Biology...
AMDG

What about BS Manufacturing Engineering and Management , BS Civil Engineering?

[freespirit]

Originally posted by pyket
about the comment on the signature of the atenean being theo, philo, and the rest of the humanities. i have to admit, that is true. but i don't think the ateneo IS merely the summation of its humanities courses. but i honestly think (sorry if i offend some of others' sensibilities here) that specialization on whatever major/concentration (even on the undergraduate level) sorely lags behind that of our other counterparts (both abroad and locally). i guess this is one of my own pet-peeves about the university. whenever people outside of the university think of the ateneo, they think precisely of that 'signature.' they think: Philo, Theo, the humanities. when they hear of biology, chemistry, physics, they think U.P. the ateneo has been labelled for the longest with that whole english, philosophy, theology, history tag. i don't see anything wrong with that per se. but what i see wrong is the 'lag' in the specialized sciences. i guess it's about time that we showed the others that there's definitely more to the atenean signature than just that.

i agree naman. but for me pa rin, to stand out from the rest of the crowd...we should retain the old "signature" PLUS the specializations.

:hmm:

[pyket]

but how can 'specialized classes' (which i HAVE to mention are still non-existent --- wala masyadong addition sa concentrations ng bawat department kung may dinagdag at all) exist when, as is, approximately 3-4 out of six classes per semester are devoted to core curriculum even well into senior year? saan ipapasok yung extra classes? right now mahirap na ngang mag dagdag ng classes ang bawat department. most courses already have a credit load of 17-19 units per semester, as is.

that's my contention lang i guess with the 'thrust' of education in the ateneo. how can you possibly update the (non-core) curriculum without going 21 or more units per semester? or is that not the direction that the ateneo wants to take? (any truly 'authoritative' sources from the admin/board here?)

[freespirit]

when i was in ADMU, we had at least 18 units during our freshman year! tas full load summer (9units) tas 21-22 units in the succeeding semesters. as far as i hear, the freshman load right now is already our underload dati. ngayon, i hear that the full load is only 16 units!!!

:uh: diba?

[pyket]

16 units for the freshmen??? wow. i did not know that. then i guess if that is accurate, all the more reason for the departments to place their 'intro to whatever' courses in freshman year to make space for whatever (elective, more core, or more course concentrations) in the succeeding years, di ba? (na hindi ko pa naman nakikitang ginagawa)

grabe 16 units during freshman year??? can anyone verify this? 19 units din ako nung freshman year ko. (20.5 kung bibilangin ang ROTC na dapat talagang i-abolish, pero ibang usapan na yon) grabe na... pag may bumagsak pa diyan... (and i'm sure na mayroon talagang babagsak, sad to say)

[Yoshi]

pyket, yup, on the average, the new curriculum only offers 16 units (on the average) during freshman year.

I really don't see the need to add more course concentration subjects, if only to prove that our science courses are good and to shake off the "humanities" tag. As a science major, I could vouch that our science courses are good, and we are more than capable of producing quality graduates from these courses.

Personally, I found my specific subjects more than adequate (I was a ChCE major), but I wished I could have had more course electives since I wanted to get subjects that were impossible to fit into the schedule, but the load was already heavy. I have a friend who is a senior EU student, and he only has the required Philo and Theo along with 9-12 other units of specific subjects.

The major thrust of the reduced core is to allow the student to utilize the extra time for personal study use—reading books, research in the library, consultation with teachers, and all that. There are a lot of points you may consider when thinking about the pros and cons of reducing the core subjects, but in the end it will all boil down to how the student makes use of his education.

[freespirit]

uhhh...do you honestly think students would "utilize" their time intelligently? honestly, from my point of view...hinde. i think talaga that the old curriculum was good with the extra theo n philo load. however, they could try to do without the intro parts of a course. i think most of the "intro" are the bulk of the "majors" kaya hindi masyado in-depth ang major courses. :hmm: hope i made sense... :blush2:

[pyket]

i agree with freespirit... medyo malabong gamitin ng mga students yung extra time for studying/consulting. in my experience, the only time i saw students using up their free time for studies is either: a) exams na, or b) gipit na sila sa grade. even then some even don't bother. fine, it's their loss, pero still... mas malaki ang loss factor kaysa sa gains. (well, para sa akin)

but, to do without the intro courses? ewan ko lang. it's supposed to give an overview of the field to the majors, or in the case of psy101 or sa21, i guess it's supposed to provide a 'general introduction' (as is in keeping with the course title) of the field para may idea naman kahit papaano yung student. marami ngang topics ang intros pero as to the depth? i seriously don't think so. i actually think nga that intro courses should be taken more seriously eh. i was a psychology major and my intro to psych class wasn't exactly much of an introduction. i don't know if the watering down of the class was due to the teacher, to the time constraint, or the mentality na 'core subject lang naman siya'...

though it is true that these intros give your general disciplines within a particular field, to get rid of it because it causes major courses to not be so in-depth??? i don't think it happens... if it really does, then there's something wrong in the way the major subjects are taught, not the intro courses.

[freespirit]

well, i just think the intro should have more "depth" in it. of all the intro courses i've been through, only the intro to philo ang talagang masasabi ko na may "laman". i dunno. that's my experience lang. :hmm:

[Yoshi]

About the intro courses, I don't really get what you guys are talking about. If you're talking about core subjects like PolSci or History, they weren't taken out or anything. Some of the subjects just received a reduction in the number of units, but they're still a part of the curriculum. I didn't have intro subjects as part of my course so I couldn't relate.

I had really good core subject teachers, and I think I got the best possible education for these subjects from them. It really depends on who the teacher really is because teachers have varied teaching styles. I'm quite lucky to have gotten the best teachers so I couldn't really complain about that.

Personally, I don't see a big difference between the old and new curriculum. There may have been reduced units, but as a practical person I think that not much is lost, especially when I consider these subjects as less important in the future. Using one's time is a personal choice, and whether or not you spend more time in the classroom than outside it doesn't reflect on how the student is bound to perform.

[bitz]

Sa bagong curriculum, hindi naman masyadong nabawasan yung content for some subjects. Ang pinakabinawasan nila e yung time/units. For example, instead of having a theo 11 and theo 21, gumawa na lang sila ng theo 121 course which takes up only 3 units keysa kung kukunin mo yung dalawang subjects na 6 units ang total.

[vamp_inside]

i'm from batch 2003, and i really wont be able to compare the
changes that has happened in ateneo. but i could provide facts
about how we with the new curriculum survive.

i'm in a science course, and yes, ateneo is moving into a more
scientific approach with its new curriculum. they're trying to get
more students into research. plus, teachers in my majors are
becoming more demanding, especially with requirements. (we
get a friggin exam every week!) with the internet and other
resources becoming more accessible to students, the teachers
expect more from us. hence, i think the load reduction may
actually be helping us. we can spend more time doing research
for our majors and read for theo, philo, history and polsci (core
subjects for 3rd year :). god knows we need longer days
especially this time of the year.

and, if it is any indication, the past few weeks, all 3 floors of the
library were full of students. every table. every couch. and to
think the lib actually added more chairs to accomodate the
students. are more students actually maximizing their study time,
or did the administration accept more students than what the
school's facilities could handle?

the school population is of course, another story.

:p

[tesseract]

Why don't you check out Fr. Nebres' statements? They're on the Ateneo website.

[Wizard]

New 5-year courses like AB/MA Filipino and BS/MS Physics.

New MS Environmental Management course to be offered jointly by AdMU and University of San Francisco.

New PhD degrees for Computer Science, ECE, Atmospheric Physics.

New college courses in: Chemical Engineering, Electrical Engineering, Materials Science, Bio-Chemistry, Genetic Engineering, etc.

New School of Management and IT building will be constructed in September/01, to be completed by May/02.

New university church to be constructed in September/01, completion date ???

The bright future begins in the Ateneo.

[lasallite]

WOW A LOT OF CHNAGES HUH!?

Hmmm...nakikita ko na unti-unti nyo nang ginagaya ang La Salle. Superiority in Computers and Engineering....there's a pattern see.

Ayaw nyo lang aminin...you ateneans are ALL DELUSIONAL.

Natauhan rin kayo.

the end of "Super ateneans" huh? dream on. there never were. not even 1.

oooohhhh....I just love picking fights, don't you?

:flamer: :bash:

BASH BASH BASH BASH BASH BASH BASH :bash:

[aticus]

Originally posted by lasallite
WOW A LOT OF CHNAGES HUH!?

Hmmm...nakikita ko na unti-unti nyo nang ginagaya ang La Salle. Superiority in Computers and Engineering....there's a pattern see.

Ayaw nyo lang aminin...you ateneans are ALL DELUSIONAL.

Natauhan rin kayo.

the end of "Super ateneans" huh? dream on. there never were. not even 1.

oooohhhh....I just love picking fights, don't you?

:flamer: :bash:

BASH BASH BASH BASH BASH BASH BASH :bash:

Just saving this for the records so the mods can use it as evidence...

[SuddenReversal]

Originally posted by lasallite
WOW A LOT OF CHNAGES HUH!?

Hmmm...nakikita ko na unti-unti nyo nang ginagaya ang La Salle. Superiority in Computers and Engineering....there's a pattern see.

Ayaw nyo lang aminin...you ateneans are ALL DELUSIONAL.

Natauhan rin kayo.

the end of "Super ateneans" huh? dream on. there never were. not even 1.

oooohhhh....I just love picking fights, don't you?

:flamer: :bash:

BASH BASH BASH BASH BASH BASH BASH :bash:

This thread was full of good informations and harmony until an INSECURE LASALLIAN PEXERs LIKE YOU AND MEM CAME!

maybe because you envy us so much!...that you wish lasalle is ateneo! well only in your dream!!!

[SuddenReversal]

less philo,theo,histo, etc...but ateneo is well known in the Humanities??...feel mo ngayon tuloy di na kami superatenean..

go blockA 2002!

[chocobo_jules]

could you guys please focus on the more positive things? :(

nakakadepress for us freshies eh. parang sinasabi nyo... '2000-2001 had the last batch of REAL ateneans; anyone who graduated beyond that year will never be as good.' :mecry:

meron namang bagong buildings diba? :)
mabababa na rin nila yung 'on this site will rise the university church' na sign. meron na ring maliit na sign sa likod ng phy6 wing ng sec sa 'school of management' ... kasing liit ng mga sign ng carrots sa field. :)
nung groundbreaking nga nung fourth and fifth wing ng sec, may nakita akong maliit na fountain eh. sana palaging nandun yun. sana di lang pakita sa mga vip na narororoon nung araw na yun... nagluluto pa nga sila ng bibingka eh. ang bango! :drool:

can you think of other nice things(EDSA walk renovation; etc.) ...please? for the freshies? :blush2:

cool block T ! :socool:


offtopic!!
kung gusto niyo ng ateneo alumni VISA card (by unionbank), sabihin niyo lang saken ah!

[PS]

Originally posted by aticus


Just saving this for the records so the mods can use it as evidence...

Hey aticus I think lasallite was just playing with all of you....napikon naman kayo.

Mali nga naman na nakikipag-away siya dito sa thread nyo....kaya lang nakakatawa lang na this guy got into your nerves....hahaha

Anyhoo....its good that Atneo has a lot of thingas going for them.

Still...."super atenean"? I think I'd have to agree with lasallite, you're all delusional.

fish.

[chocobo_jules]

"super atenean?" isn't that redundant?:grinroll: :laugh: :rotfl: :winknudge: :brush:
(please! wala nang kokontra! nahihibang lang ako! :blah2: )

[poison_arrow]

Does anyone know anything about the status of Ateneo's Canlubang campus? When will construction commence? What courses/degrees will be offered there? Will there be a high school and a grade school as well?

Thanks.

[Moon Goddess]

Originally posted by SuddenReversal


This thread was full of good informations and harmony until an INSECURE LASALLIAN PEXERs LIKE YOU AND MEM CAME!

maybe because you envy us so much!...that you wish lasalle is ateneo! well only in your dream!!!

I think its the other way around. Kaya nga you are doing all the changes. As i've argued with my friend from UP before, Ateneo doesnt even deserve the title "University." Sorry.

But at least , your'e trying to be a real University na.

Thats a change and congratulations.

-----------------

We envy you? Alam naman naming mas-kumpleto kami sa inyo. Alam mo rin yon.

-----------------

Calmado na ako ok.

-----------------

Natatakot ako for you guys. Ateneo is becoming La Salle. Specialization. I.T. Health Sciences. What's next? HRIM?

Seryoso ako. parang alangan ako sa mga nangyayari sa inyo pero sabi nga nila, "change is the only permanent thing."

-----------------

I think its not a matter of who's going to be bigger or better after some time, but when will the time be when the top universities in the country will create impact on the lives of common Filipinos, together.

Tanong ko rin to sa La Salle and sa UP lalo na't mas kaya nila with all of their resources and system members.

----------------

Kung hindi kaya gawin ng La Salle o UP, sana gawin ng Ateneo.

[poison_arrow]

Wasn't Ateneo a university for a long time even before La Salle changed from college to being a university?

My decision to become an Atenean (despite the fact that I have been a La Sallian all my life from grade school through high school) has nothing to do with the size of the university or the number of degrees being offered? It has to do with the mission of the university, the quality of education, the quality of the students and professors, the quality of the curriculum, etc. In other words, I don't care about size or number of courses, but I do care about quality, and Ateneo seems to be the best fit for me and my parents, who will be paying for my education, concur. Furthermore, Ateneo's wholistic education prepares one for life better than a specialized approach. Specialization may be good during the first few years of one's working life, but a wholistic education is a better preparation for a whole lifetime.

Peace.

[rao]

Originally posted by melboy36
at any rate, the ateneo is converting from a liberal arts school into a technical school. parang Cambridge turning into Michigan Institute of technology.

The University of Cambridge is not exactly a liberal arts school. Newton, Darwin, Rutherford, Hawking - they're all from Cambridge

[PS]

Originally posted by poison_arrow
Wasn't Ateneo a university for a long time even before La Salle changed from college to being a university?

My decision to become an Atenean (despite the fact that I have been a La Sallian all my life from grade school through high school) has nothing to do with the size of the university or the number of degrees being offered? It has to do with the mission of the university, the quality of education, the quality of the students and professors, the quality of the curriculum, etc. In other words, I don't care about size or number of courses, but I do care about quality, and Ateneo seems to be the best fit for me and my parents, who will be paying for my education, concur. Furthermore, Ateneo's wholistic education prepares one for life better than a specialized approach. Specialization may be good during the first few years of one's working life, but a wholistic education is a better preparation for a whole lifetime.

Peace.

Its really sad that you La Salle high schoolers do not appreciate the qualities of your alma mater.

Pero, anyway, that's a good thing for us who didn't take high school in any La Salle institution. HA! good riddance....he he he loko lang, pare ko. (baduy nga pala ng pangalan mo, just call yourself blue beagle why dontcha) :p

Anyhoo...its really your choice, pare. Siguro may flaws din ang education mo dahil sa Ateneo talagang bombarded with Bullsheep ang students with "how good they are, how good their education is, how they are better than every one else, how lucky they are they are in ATeneo" etc etc chu chu. Sa La Salle yata hindi ganun eh. Well, less clutter in the brain the better.

Specialization is better kasi we will not use the things that are of no importance to us at work and in life. Maganda nga lang na meron din good training in humanities and religion. I also like the Jesuits, they are good educators and catechists. Ateneo is following in our footsteps kasi they realize that we are on the right track. Not everyone is created equal. You may be smarter in the classroom but other people are smarter in athletics, science, etc. etc. La Salle has recognized this, ATeneo, in its stubborness, has just begun to.

Ateneo is good, kaya lang ang ayaw ko ay yung BS they feed your young minds. I hope you won't become like one of those stoopeed ateneo zombies chanting "man for other" kahit na hindi naman.

Basta my advise, dont swallow everything hook line and sinker. Have your own brain.

[PS]

Originally posted by chocobo_jules
"super atenean?" isn't that redundant?:grinroll: :laugh: :rotfl: :winknudge: :brush:
(please! wala nang kokontra! nahihibang lang ako! :blah2: )

I'm sorry...hehehehe...I just can't resist my comment.

super atenean...redundant???

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :glee:

see poison_arrow, this is the kind of bullsheep you will become when you study in Ateneo.

Good luck na lang.

[nina malagu]

Originally posted by PS


I'm sorry...hehehehe...I just can't resist my comment.

super atenean...redundant???

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :glee:

see poison_arrow, this is the kind of bullsheep you will become when you study in Ateneo.

Good luck na lang.

hehehe and this is the kind of training that you will get in La Salle.

:rolleyes:

Hooray for those who flunked the ACET and UPCAT, may school pa naman sa Taft na sasalo sa inyo.

Huh, I read the thread on Unity on De La Salle U. System (Academe Section), now that's really funny. United we stand,divided you fall. Super La Sallites pa naman kayo di ba?

[tesseract]

Originally posted by PS


Its really sad that you La Salle high schoolers do not appreciate the qualities of your alma mater.

Pero, anyway, that's a good thing for us who didn't take high school in any La Salle institution. HA! good riddance....he he he loko lang, pare ko. (baduy nga pala ng pangalan mo, just call yourself blue beagle why dontcha) :p

Anyhoo...its really your choice, pare. Siguro may flaws din ang education mo dahil sa Ateneo talagang bombarded with Bullsheep ang students with "how good they are, how good their education is, how they are better than every one else, how lucky they are they are in ATeneo" etc etc chu chu. Sa La Salle yata hindi ganun eh. Well, less clutter in the brain the better.

Specialization is better kasi we will not use the things that are of no importance to us at work and in life. Maganda nga lang na meron din good training in humanities and religion. I also like the Jesuits, they are good educators and catechists. Ateneo is following in our footsteps kasi they realize that we are on the right track. Not everyone is created equal. You may be smarter in the classroom but other people are smarter in athletics, science, etc. etc. La Salle has recognized this, ATeneo, in its stubborness, has just begun to.

Ateneo is good, kaya lang ang ayaw ko ay yung BS they feed your young minds. I hope you won't become like one of those stoopeed ateneo zombies chanting "man for other" kahit na hindi naman.

Basta my advise, dont swallow everything hook line and sinker. Have your own brain.

Hey, no offense meant, but I really think that you ought to leave his opinion alone. And if you don't mind, just because he differs in opinion, please don't start insinuating that because he made Ateneo his choice that he is in for a lot of crap, nor that the education of the Ateneo, one of the most esteemed institutions of education in this country, is full of "clutter" and "bullsheep."

By the way, just because Ateneo is beginning to orient its education towards science and technology means it's following in la salle footsteps (why would it want to do that in the first place?)... It simply means that the jesuits are broadening even more the already broad education the school offers.

And remember this -- studying at the Ateneo and graduating with its degrees does not make you an Atenean. True Ateneans are defined by their competence, conscience, Christ-centeredness, compassion, and commitment to serve. A degree is half of the equation. Living up to the education is another.

Peace. :)

[PS]

Originally posted by tesseract


Hey, no offense meant, but I really think that you ought to leave his opinion alone. And if you don't mind, just because he differs in opinion, please don't start insinuating that because he made Ateneo his choice that he is in for a lot of crap, nor that the education of the Ateneo, one of the most esteemed institutions of education in this country, is full of "clutter" and "bullsheep."

By the way, just because Ateneo is beginning to orient its education towards science and technology means it's following in la salle footsteps (why would it want to do that in the first place?)... It simply means that the jesuits are broadening even more the already broad education the school offers.

And remember this -- studying at the Ateneo and graduating with its degrees does not make you an Atenean. True Ateneans are defined by their competence, conscience, Christ-centeredness, compassion, and commitment to serve. A degree is half of the equation. Living up to the education is another.

Peace. :) Hey, no problem dude. Peace tayo. Natatawa lang ako sa inyo, that's all. No offense or anything.

Its this kind of crap that they feed you in Ateneo. "studying in Ateneo and graduating with its degrees does not make you an Atenean..." :toofunny: This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. It makes you feel all funny inside? Where do your teachers get this? Is there a manual where the teachers get these things? In high school my teachers fed me this crap. Well....lets just say that not everything is sunshine outside Ateneo.

And hey, the guy has his own opinions and is entitled to it. I agree.

Ateneo is NOT following in La Salle's footsteps? Well, lets just say that....La Salle has different Colleges for different courses....what the??! Ateneo NOW has these?!! :wow: ...Ateneo Med School soon to open...hmmm...just like La Salle's own Med school?....Tech superiority and computer studies ....hmmmm...Ateneo nagkakaroon na rin?? I'm not gonna say it again. You be the judge.

Kayo na rin nagsabi na ayaw nyo ang ganito kasi mawawala na ang pagiging "super atenean" (sorry, this really cracks me up :toofunny: ) nyo...and ayaw nyo maging specialized parang...hmmmm...La Salle?

It lang ang quote ko for you. "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." ...or maybe the great Ateneo BS is strong in you already? (parang Jedi hee hee)...take my adivce, don't swallow the BS hook, line, and sinker, pare.

nina malagu: we don't claim to be super lasallites. HAHAHAHAHA. God knows we wouldn't wanna be that way. Ang gusto ko sa pagiging Lasalista eh we don't take these trivial things too seriously. Well...totoo na meron talagang mga pumapasa sa La Salle na bagsak sa Ateneo...kaya lang your "superior" brain should also tell you that a population of 10,000 will allow this compared to Ateneo's 5,000 or less students. Averages lang yan eh. ;)

Anyway, its good to know that Ateneo has a lot of things going for on and well, in the end I hope this strengthens and improves our country hindi lang puro La Salle-Ateneo BS. :D

Wag na tayo away, ha? ;)

O, ano pa ba ang mga changes sa Ateneo...para makilatis natin? *okay*

[tesseract]

Originally posted by PS
Hey, no problem dude. Peace tayo. Natatawa lang ako sa inyo, that's all. No offense or anything.

Its this kind of crap that they feed you in Ateneo. "studying in Ateneo and graduating with its degrees does not make you an Atenean..." :toofunny: This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. It makes you feel all funny inside? Where do your teachers get this? Is there a manual where the teachers get these things? In high school my teachers fed me this crap. Well....lets just say that not everything is sunshine outside Ateneo.

And hey, the guy has his own opinions and is entitled to it. I agree.

Ateneo is NOT following in La Salle's footsteps? Well, lets just say that....La Salle has different Colleges for different courses....what the??! Ateneo NOW has these?!! :wow: ...Ateneo Med School soon to open...hmmm...just like La Salle's own Med school?....Tech superiority and computer studies ....hmmmm...Ateneo nagkakaroon na rin?? I'm not gonna say it again. You be the judge.

Kayo na rin nagsabi na ayaw nyo ang ganito kasi mawawala na ang pagiging "super atenean" (sorry, this really cracks me up :toofunny: ) nyo...and ayaw nyo maging specialized parang...hmmmm...La Salle?

It lang ang quote ko for you. "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." ...or maybe the great Ateneo BS is strong in you already? (parang Jedi hee hee)...take my adivce, don't swallow the BS hook, line, and sinker, pare.



Again, no offense meant, okay? Um, I really don't think that there is any bull to begin with, so please quit it on any "bull." And I still insist that Ateneo is not following in the footsteps of la salle... It is broadening its already broad spectrum of education.

I don't think that really matters, however. What is important is that we are all Filipino students doing our best to learn so that we can be of some service to this country when we all graduate. Don't you agree? I mean, what else would education be for if not for the fulfillment of our roles as responsible individuals in society and committed citizens of our country (I can't believe I'm saying this!)?

Peace. :)

[Wizard]

QUESTION --

Some years ago, there was some talk about an Ateneo campus in the Fort Bonifacio area. I am not sure whether it was for a grade school/high school, college, or graduate school. Does anyone know anything about this? What is the status and what are the plans?

How about the Canlubang campus of the Ateneo? How big is the lot? I heard the Yulo family donated (?) at least 11 hectares. When will construction commence? What are they going to build there -- grade school, HS, college, graduate school?

Thanks.

[beej]

ewan ko generally.

pero sa course ko. dinagdagan 3 classes at ginawang may lab. stats namin may lab na. and we had extra courses that didnt exist from the old curriculum. so if ever we lost some units, binawi rin eh.

kaya maganda pa rin ang course ko =)

[MO]

i really dont know much about these changes but last friday i was in the grade school pool and the swimming coach was just so frustrated because two of his better swimmers (FRESHIES) are not eligible to swim in the UAAP meet coz they're only taking up 7units. the requirement was for a student to be taking at least 15 units to be eligible to compete.

i remember taking up 20+ units in my first year and it was relatively light. even if the new curriculum was reduced to 16 units or so, how can you drop half of your subjects?

hope you guys can enlighten me on this one.

[Yoshi]

MO, I think the student was taking a basic (remedial) class, i.e. basic Math (Ma 1), basic English (En 1), or basic Filipino (Fi 1). Those classes are 0 unit classes but are considered to be part of the load.

[SuguS]

Originally posted by pyket
1) will the ateneo ever follow most of these universities with their inclination towards RESEARCH? or is it really true that filipino culture does not provide the proper atmosphere for such an academic research culture? is it really too difficult, or is it just a hassle that nobody wants to take up and tackle? where will we get the money? instead of focusing on our basketball/sports program, the alumni can be tapped in this area. i mean, if they can 'donate' thousands of dollars to buy NBA flooring for the gym, they can very well donate thousands of dollars for infrastructure, facilities and research.
The Jesuit pedagogic tradition is by nature one that places much emphasis on teaching unlike many universities that choose to be research institutions first and foremost. Nevertheless, you're right; it's no excuse. I do think that the thrust of the administration for the next few years is to beef up the research programs.

2) when will the ateneo formalize its ties with the jesuit academic community? i've never really seen foreign jesuit administrators visiting campus, or visiting professors, etc. i remember a story from a friend of mine who applied in a jesuit university for her masteral degree.
i'm not too sure about the cases that you mentioned, but i have seen a number of visiting administrators and professors from other jesuit universities around the world. hmmm ... baka depende sa department.

baka naman mas makakabuti kung sa alma mater ka mismo magsulat, imbis na dito lang sa PEx. Sayang naman ang mga mungkahi mo kung hindi namn mababasa mismo ng mga tagapangasiwa sa Ateneo.

[SuguS]

Originally posted by chocobo_jules
could you guys please focus on the more positive things? :(

nakakadepress for us freshies eh. parang sinasabi nyo... '2000-2001 had the last batch of REAL ateneans; anyone who graduated beyond that year will never be as good.' :mecry:
final fantasy fan, wag kang mag-alala. ganyan lang talaga ang buhay: every generation of ateneans will always look back at the ateneo of THEIR era as the "golden age of ateneo." believe me.

yung mga atenista na nagtapos noong 1950s, nagreklamo sila noong naging co-ed ang Ateneo noong 1970s.

yung mga guro kong nagtapos noong 1960s, nagrereklamo sila dahil masyado na raw malaki ang populasyon ng ateneo kung ihahambing sa populasyon ng ateneo noong nag-aaral pa sila. (e siyempre naman, lalaki talaga ang populasyon ng isang pamantasan! lumalaki kasi ang populasyon ng mundo, e!)

yung mga atenista na nagtapos noong 1970s at 80s, ang tingin naman nila sa mga atenista ng mga 1990s, kulang daw sa social involvement (e siyempre, first quarter storm at martial law noong kolehiyo sila, sino naman ang makakatalo doon?).

kaya ngayon naman, ang mga atenista na nagtapos noong 1990s, nagrereklamo rin tungkol sa mga pagbabago.

as ateneans, most of us love our school with a passion, but i think we all have to get used to the fact that CHANGES WILL HAPPEN! whether we like it or not. but the great thing is, no matter which batch of ateneans you come from, we still (hopefully) try to live out the ideals of service and excellence. "men and women for others."

that, and also: WIN OR LOSE IT'S THE SCHOOL WE CHOOSE! ONE BIG FIGHT!

[d0rky]

Originally posted by pyket
16 units for the freshmen??? wow. i did not know that. <snip>

grabe 16 units during freshman year??? can anyone verify this? 19 units din ako nung freshman year ko. (20.5 kung bibilangin ang ROTC na dapat talagang i-abolish, pero ibang usapan na yon) grabe na... pag may bumagsak pa diyan... (and i'm sure na mayroon talagang babagsak, sad to say)

I know this was posted a loooong time ago, but I can't help but reply.

I'm a freshman, and I had 19 units for the first sem, not counting the two units for P.E. So the thing about the full load being 16 units max is not true.
My friends from other courses have 16-19 units as well.

I have a question: the NatSci laboratory part used to be 2 units, right? Because it's 2 hours a week? Now it's only 1 unit, so maybe that's another thing that contributes to the less number of units for freshmen? (Err...sorry, I'm not too sure on this.)

[pyket]

pag 2 units ang natsci, 4 hour lab yon. ewan ko lang sa 1 unit lab.

[d0rky]

Originally posted by pyket
pag 2 units ang natsci, 4 hour lab yon. ewan ko lang sa 1 unit lab.

Oh, I see. I thought the # of units were supposed to correspond to the # of hours per week, like the other subjects. Anyway, 1 unit lab has 2 hours a week.
Thanks!:D

[Exterminator]

In addition to the new courses that have been mentioned above, there will be new courses called: 1) Art Management and 2) Multimedia Design.

Also, the new PhD in Atmospheric Physics course will be offered by ADMU in conjunction with the Manila Observatory.

The new MS Environmental Management course that will be jointly offered by ADMU and the University of San Francisco is already being advertised by USF for next school year.

FYI.

[cretinous00]

Originally posted by rao
The University of Cambridge is not exactly a liberal arts school. Newton, Darwin, Rutherford, Hawking - they're all from Cambridge

calculus, evolution, quantum physics, theoretical physics. that's as liberal as you can get.

[Gangreen]

John Gokongwei just donated P200 million to the Ateneo for the School of Management which will now be called the John Gokongwei School of Management.

[pyket]

magkakaroon na tayo ng "moral guardians" against plays, books, poems, whatever that might go against the "Jesuit, Catholic, and Filipino values" that our beloved institution espouses.

sino pa nga ba ang head, kundi si Intal? :rolleyes:

[Gangreen]

Originally posted by pyket
magkakaroon na tayo ng "moral guardians" against plays, books, poems, whatever that might go against the "Jesuit, Catholic, and Filipino values" that our beloved institution espouses.

sino pa nga ba ang head, kundi si Intal? :rolleyes:

Are you serious about this? What qualifies Intal to head up this role? Who will be the members of this "board"? Are the students going to be represented? Will they have a say in the decision making? What is the decision process? By majority vote? Simple majority (51%) or 66.67%? Unanimous vote? :rolleyes:

[dtb]

Kung may natigasan bagsak na yun sa morality

[BULLD0G_FAN]

Originally posted by dtb
Kung may natigasan bagsak na yun sa morality

How about yung nag-water-water na lesbos? Bagsak din?

[pyket]

gangreen: i was being sarcastic. PERO there's a hint of truth in it dahil sa whole TVM/UP issue sa admu (reread the reactions of intal). PLUS though this is a precedent, wala pa ring linalabas na statement or parameters for Art in the ateneo in general. so in other words, the whole artistic community is murmuring in the dark. wala naman kasing nagbubukas ng ilaw --- or should i say, yung nagsu-supply ng kuryente dapat, hindi nagsusupply.

[jeangrey21]

tiningnan ko lahat ang mga dating threads....
and dis thread ? well, impressive!
i hope 2luy-2luy na ang admu changes....

basta 4 sure, ang university CHURCH will be open dis coming SY....

[ricey]

the Church of the Gesu will be inaugurated on July 31, 2002 - the Feast of St. Ignatius.

Hope to see you guys there.

[dep28]

Originally posted by angst


That's true! That's why, they say that our batch (batch 2001, the last batch to have the original core curriculum) is said to be the last batch of the super Ateneans. :)

actually, it was my batch, 2002, that had the original core curriculum thus we are the last batch of super ateneans Ü

[alikishi]

actually, it was my batch, 2002, that had the original core curriculum thus we are the last batch of super ateneans Ü

nope... it was the batch before us (2001) that had the last original core curriculum. Sa atin nagstart yung bagong core curriculum

[mrquick]

Originally posted by ricey
the Church of the Gesu will be inaugurated on July 31, 2002 - the Feast of St. Ignatius.

Hope to see you guys there.

hope to see you also.

i like attending mass in Ateneo. I like jesuits the way they gave homilies.

[`sÜp@fLy]

Originally posted by ricey
the Church of the Gesu will be inaugurated on July 31, 2002 - the Feast of St. Ignatius.

Hope to see you guys there.

the Church of the Gesu reminds me of Camp Big Falcon in Voltes 5

[Exterminator]

Double posts. :)

[Exterminator]

A new degree in M.S. Environmental Management just began this semester. It is jointly offered by ADMU and University of San Francisco. Here's the website -

http://www.ateneo.edu/depts/es/mem/main.htm

Check out the courses.

Here's the list of faculty:

The Master in Environmental Management Program

FACULTY PROFILES

Brenda J. Angeles
Atty. Angeles received her L.L.B. from the University of the Philippines in Diliman. Her areas of specialization are in Environmnetal Law and Conflict Management and Resolution.

Emmanuel G. Anglo
Dr. Anglo obtained his Ph.D. in Meteorology from the University of the Philippines in Diliman. His research focuses on Fluid Dynamics, Dispersion Modeling, and Air Quality Sampling

Lisa C. Antonio
Ms. Antonio specializes in Environmental Management, Educational Management, Organizational Development and Cross-cultural Communication. She received a post-graduate diploma in environmental management from the Netherlands RVB International Institute of Management.

Germelino M. Bautista
Dr. Bautista received his Ph.D. in Development Studies at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He specializes in Environmental and Resource Economics. He has been involved in policy studies on Natural Resource Management , and in projects for capacity building on Environmental Economics and Social Assessment.

John C. Callaway
Dr. Callaway’s research focuses on Wetland Plant and Soil Ecology, Restoration Ecology, Exotic Species Invasions, Sediment Processes, and potential impacts of sea level rise. He received his Ph.D. in Oceanography and Coastal Sciences from Louisiana State University.

Ma. Agnes B. David
Ms. David received her M.S. in Environmental Studies at the University of the Philippines in Los Baños. Her interests include Environmental Impact Assessment, Environmental Management, and Sustainable Communities. Her studies include issues of resettlement, the urban poor and Environmental Monitoring.

Renato Julian M. David
Dr. David has extensive experience with industry, and has worked with both government and the academe. He specializes in Environmental Consulting and the implementation of Environmental Management Systems. He received his Ph.D. in Energy Engineering from the University of the Philippines in Diliman.

Fabian M. Dayrit
Dr. Dayrit has over 20 years of experience in university teaching and research. His interests include Environmental Chemistry and Chemical Instrumentation. He received his Ph.D. in Chemistry from Princeton University. Dr. Dayrit is currently the Dean of the School of Science and Engineering of Ateneo.

Ignacio M. Dayrit
Mr. Dayrit has a Master in City Planning from the University of California, Berkeley. He has extensive experience in public sector development, urban and building design, acquisition, and implementation. His work covers Brownfields Redevelopment, Regional Planning, Transportation, and Infrastructure.

Emilyn Q. Espiritu
Dr. Espiritu received her Ph.D. in Applied Biological Science from the University of Gent in Belgium. Her interests include Environmental Toxicology and Advanced Ecology. She has been involved in policy studies, training in environmental assessment and other capacity-building projects.

John T. Giordano
Dr. Giordano received his Ph.D. in Philosophy from the Duquesne University in Pittsburgh. He also has a B.S. degree in Wildlife Management and Biology from the University of Wisconsin at Stevens Point and has also worked for a coal mining consulting company in West Virginia.

Anna Marie M. Hufemia
Ms. Hufemia received her Master of Engineering in Environmental Engineering at the Asian Institute of Technology in Bangkok, Thailand. Her interests include water and wastewater engineering and environmental management systems design in industry.

Richard Hume
Dr. Hume received his Ph.D. in Environmental Engineering from Oxford University, England. He was a professor at Harvard University for over 10 years, specializing in the environmental impact of chemical emissions from the electronic manufacturing services industry. He also spent three years for his post-doctoral studies in M.I.T., where he did some research in the field of nanotechnology.

Rainier A. Ibana
Dr. Ibana’s expertise is in Discourse Ethics. His research interests include ethics, social philosophy and metaphysics. He received his Ph.D. in Philosophy from Fordham University.

John M. Lendvay
Dr. Lendvay’s interests include Biogeochemistry and the transformation potential of xenobiotic contaminants in aquifers under dynamic redox conditions, as well as many others. He received his PhD in Environmental Engineering from the University of Michigan.

Virgilio F. Luna, Jr.
Mr. Luna received his M.S. in Environmental Engineering at the University of the Philippines. He specializes in Water Quality Management, Wastewater and Solid Waste Management and Environmental Impact/Risk Assessment. His work focuses on Environmental Planning for Economic Zones and Freeports.

Thomas R. MacDonald
He received his Ph.D. in Civil Engineering and Water Resources from Stanford University. His research interests include designing computer models of pollutant transport processes and the natural attenuation of pollutants.

Carolyn A. Mercado
Atty. Mercado received her fellowship in International Environmental Law from the University of Washington. A developmental lawyer, she has ten years of substantive work experience in Legal Education and Counseling, Policy Research and Advocacy, Legal and Judicial Reform, and Organizational Management.

Jenny Mae D. Perez
Ms. Perez has a Master in Environmental Management degree from the University of Queensland in Australia. She specializes in the fields of Environmental Chemistry and Cleaner Production.

Padmapani L. Perez
Ms. Perez received her M.A. in Environmental Anthropology from the University of Kent at Canterbury. She specializes in Development Issues and Indigenous Peoples. She has been involved in studies on contested domains, as well as development and environment studies in the Cordillera Region and Palawan.

Teresita R. Perez
Dr. Perez has a Ph.D. in Biology from the University of the Philippines in Diliman. She specializes in Bioremediation, Limnology, and Riparian Ecology.

Emma E. Porio
Dr. Porio has a Ph.D. in Sociology from the University of Hawaii. Her specialization is in the areas of Environmental Sociology, Urban Governance and Social Problems.

Paolo Ricci
Dr. Ricci has over 25 years of experience in a wide range of Environmental Health and Engineering projects. He received his Ph.D. in Environmental Engineering and Science from Drexel University and also holds an LLM from Leicester University.

Rafael P. Saldaña
Dr. Saldaña is actively involved in the development of Mathematical Models and High Performance Computing in the Philippines. He received his Ph.D. in Physics at Monash University in Australia and has undergone special training in environmental management systems and environmental modeling.

Jewel Racquel S. Unson
Ms. Unson received her M.S. in Chemistry from the University of San Francisco. She specializes in Environmental Monitoring, specifically the chemical analysis of environmental pollutants using gas chromatography and mass spectroscopy.

Celine M. Vicente
Dr. Vicente is a licensed architect and holds a Ph.D. in Human, Economic, and Regional Geography from the University of Paris. She specializes in RS-GIS applications for Urban Planning and Management, Watershed and Coastal Zone Management, and Climate Change Studies.

Jose T. Villarin, S.J.
Dr. Villarin is a physicist, philosopher and theologian by training. He received his Ph.D. in Atmospheric Sciences from the Georgia Institute of Technology. His research focuses on Global Climate Change, Air Quality, Atmospheric Dynamics, and Atmospheric Instrumentation.

[AlphaOmega]

The MS Environmental Management degree looks very interesting to me as a Bio/Chemistry major. I also understand the Ateneo is developing an B.S. Environment Engineering degree. Anybody knows when the latter will be offered?

[rabbaddal]

The world-wide website for the program can be reached through this link:

http://www.usfca.edu/envsci/em/index.htm

The program is jointly offered by 6 universities around the world.

[tesseract]

I just noticed something....

We don't have central center for research. We have labs, we have the lib, and so on, but no complex specifically dedicated to the pursuit of new knowledge, to experimentation, and to exploration of greater intellectual frontiers.

I think we need a research complex. We can put that field which used to be a cornfield to better use than just some parking lot.

[Ali]

At the Ateneo, research has been devolved to the Departmental or even individual level, with the University facilitating some interdepartmental, interdisciplinary research initiatives. A significant amount of funding goes to research grants given to interested faculty, whether individual or in groups.

Vast research facilities, are of course, wonderful, but they're not really feasible in our country right now. Very few Philippine institutions can afford to support pure research.

[bytmynails]

hello :sunnysmile:

ask ko lang what's new with the current curriculum. bigat na raw ng weight in units for the major subjects tapos lesser na talaga sa core? nung time ko,kapag freshman ka, may at least 6 units ka ng english. that could help save you through freshman year, at least. this past 3 years di na ata ganun?

kakamiss ng star:spinstar:bucks katipunan.

[alikishi]

my first question for you is when ka nag-graduate? (and where?), although i assume that you graduated from ateneo

[bytmynails]

hay naku nawala bigla connection...dapat dun ko eto isasama sa thread ng ateneo bigla tuloy naging topic. :flame: hikhikhik :bigteeth:

'99 po.

[tesseract]

Originally posted by Ali
At the Ateneo, research has been devolved to the Departmental or even individual level, with the University facilitating some interdepartmental, interdisciplinary research initiatives. A significant amount of funding goes to research grants given to interested faculty, whether individual or in groups.

Vast research facilities, are of course, wonderful, but they're not really feasible in our country right now. Very few Philippine institutions can afford to support pure research.

I understand this. But the Ateneo, as an academic institution, will inevitably need to invest in better facilities. So why not opt to invest in such a facility? I believe we are among those few Philippine institutions.

[Bluest]

New buildings will be constructed for the Dept. of Fine Arts and a third in-campus dormitory.

When will construction commence?

It seems that there's never an end to the construction projects inside Ateneo. They just finished the PLDT CTC building and still finishing the JGSOM building and the Church of Gesu. Now here goes another set of projects.

How about multi-level parking structures inside the campus? Is the Admin considering these? There are too many cars and too few parking spaces right now.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by tesseract


I understand this. But the Ateneo, as an academic institution, will inevitably need to invest in better facilities. So why not opt to invest in such a facility? I believe we are among those few Philippine institutions.

The PIPAC is a research facility affiliated with Ateneo, even if it is autonomous. Ateneo is doing the same level of research as other Philippine private schools. Its just that the effort is distributed across different departments rather than being centralized in one location. What Ali is saying is that it simply does not pay for private schools to set up research-intensive facilities in the Ateneo or in any Philippine private school for that matter in the same level as MIT, for example.

Why is this so? Because in advanced countries like the US, private industries pay billions of dollars to buy research work in US institutions. It's a simple case of supply and demand. Why will Ateneo set up a store when there simply are not enough customers? In the case of MIT, they have their own operations research (OR) center which makes Ateneo's ME department look like kindergarten. Big companies like Ford and Boeing buy technology from the MIT OR Center for practical use in their business. This justifies the continued operation of the center.

The best a Philippine university can do on its own initiative is to find a research field that's relevant to the needs of the country (aka. find that demand). The Central Luzon State University, for example, set up such a facility devoted to agriculture. Another possibile field of study is the environment, and Ateneo has incidentally introduced a new graduate program in this area. It will also make some headway in non-science fields such as economics - for w/c it currently runs a research center headed by Dr. Habito, and management - with some help from the Gokongwei endowment. Beyond that, how far Ateneo or any other private school can go in the field of research depends on how far our country progresses.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Bluest

How about multi-level parking structures inside the campus? Is the Admin considering these? There are too many cars and too few parking spaces right now.

The sad reality is that there will never be enough parking space in the Ateneo campus. Even if multi-level parking buildings were constructed, the increasing demand for parking space will eventually catch up w/ the school.

An alternative would be to construct more student residential facilities near the campus and to encourage students to live in campus residences rather than travel by car. Ateneo could become a residential campus similar to the setup in almost all US universities. That way, students could save on travel time and fuel expenses by living w/in walking distance from the school.

[Exterminator]

Originally posted by rabbaddal
Another possibile field of study is the environment, and Ateneo has incidentally introduced a new graduate program in this area. It will also make some headway in non-science fields such as economics - for w/c it currently runs a research center headed by Dr. Habito, and management - with some help from the Gokongwei endowment. Beyond that, how far Ateneo or any other private school can go in the field of research depends on how far our country progresses.

In the area of environmental studies, in addition to the BS Environmental Science and the new MS Environmental Management degrees, there are also plans for a BS Chemical Engineering (focusing on green technologies -- i.e., Environmental Engineering), and a PhD in Atmospheric Physics. Just take a look at backgrounds of the current Chemistry and Physics professors in the Ateneo and that should tell you that these plans are already in progress as we speak. :)

[tesseract]

Originally posted by rabbaddal


The PIPAC is a research facility affiliated with Ateneo, even if it is autonomous. Ateneo is doing the same level of research as other Philippine private schools. Its just that the effort is distributed across different departments rather than being centralized in one location. What Ali is saying is that it simply does not pay for private schools to set up research-intensive facilities in the Ateneo or in any Philippine private school for that matter in the same level as MIT, for example.

Why is this so? Because in advanced countries like the US, private industries pay billions of dollars to buy research work in US institutions. It's a simple case of supply and demand. Why will Ateneo set up a store when there simply are not enough customers? In the case of MIT, they have their own operations research (OR) center which makes Ateneo's ME department look like kindergarten. Big companies like Ford and Boeing buy technology from the MIT OR Center for practical use in their business. This justifies the continued operation of the center.

The best a Philippine university can do on its own initiative is to find a research field that's relevant to the needs of the country (aka. find that demand). The Central Luzon State University, for example, set up such a facility devoted to agriculture. Another possibile field of study is the environment, and Ateneo has incidentally introduced a new graduate program in this area. It will also make some headway in non-science fields such as economics - for w/c it currently runs a research center headed by Dr. Habito, and management - with some help from the Gokongwei endowment. Beyond that, how far Ateneo or any other private school can go in the field of research depends on how far our country progresses.

So how about the need for innovation? Ateneo is doing the same level of research. I personally think that's a weak area. Why be content with just that? For the University to progress as an institution, it has to take such risks and aggressively seek to improve itself. The research center I thought of was just a hypothetical piece in a very real puzzle.

The question remains -- should the Ateneo "set up shop," as you so put it, will the customers come? They will, if we do it good. They might not at all. But what matters is that we be more aggressive.

We don't know that it won't pay. We haven't exactly gone on to building such a research-intensive facility, which is understandable since we've been rather conservative. Will we be content with the "what if"s?

[victory]

tesseract, I don't want you to think I'm a naysayer here; I think that I recognize AdMU's need to produce good research just as much as, if not more than, most folks in PeX. In throwing out my questions below I just want to sharpen your analysis of "why a research complex does not exist in Ateneo" (existence), whether it is actually first-best to introduce such an institution (normative analysis), and whether it's doable (positive analysis).

-- Why is there no "research complex" in Ateneo?

RE: Ali and rabbaddal's comments. But there are research centers in AdMU. Constrained by funding to be sure, but usually disaggregated at the departmental and individual level. How do teachers actually get promoted from Instructor to Assistant Professor to Associate Professor to Professor in AdMU? They actually have to show some kind of research output (whether in terms of graduate degrees earned and yes, publications!) to move up. Why is this the "equilibrium state" in AdMU?

I am assuming that the research complex you are proposing is some kind of "centralized warehouse of knowledge," versus the disaggregated little plots of research institutions that are already in existence. Look at the "organizational ecology" of other universities: Are there "central research complexes" as well? At the funding level (think National Science Foundation) and at the publishing level (think "Princeton/Yale/Harvard/etc. University Press"), yes. But not at the level of actual production of research. Why is this so?

a.) Are there economies of scale and efficiencies to be gained from centralizing efforts in one single institution? Or does specialization in terms of fields and subfields naturally lead to disaggregated centers of research? How often do you think the "cutting edge researchers" in the English department need to collaborate with the "cutting edge researchers" in mathematics to produce their work -- aside from having a personal interest in the others' respective field? I'm not talking about Queena Lee-Chua writing about mathematics education and then winning a Palanca Award for her essays. I'm talking for example about how an AdMU mathematician can produce a generalized solution to an existing problem in topology by collaborating with an English professor working to produce the latest, most comprehensive taxonomy of Filipino works in English, and vice versa. To be sure there are some synergies to be gained from related fields like chemistry and physics, for example. But then that's why you have "semi-centralized" research complexes. But one big central research center for AdMU and its many branches of learning? Hmm...

b.) rabbaddal already noted down the "demand side" of things in terms of how other institutions like private businesses drive the need for research in places in the US. tesseract, you are correct in identifying the "endogeneity problem" -- causality does not run one way ("demand research and centers will be built"), but both ways ("centers will generate good research and then demand will either surface if latent or even be created"). From a policy point of view therefore you have to nail down a starting point for progress -- but then look at the supply side, too, and consider budget constraints. This naturally leads us to...

-- Opportunity costs, trade-offs and fiscal responsibility

a.) Assuming AdMU as a whole and its departments specifically have some kind of funding or resource available, how should these be allocated efficiently? There are students demanding for more classrooms and facilities, alumni demanding more get-togethers and avenues through which they could get involved or keep in touch, and teachers clamoring for higher salaries -- not even to produce good research but to just get by. The AdMU's SOM got a windfall of PHP200MM through the Gokongwei grant: How much will YOU devote to building a "research center," if your analysis in part 1 says that benefits do outweigh the costs? Half of this amount? All of it? Should AdMU's "central government" appropriate part or the entire amount so that it could create your dream of a "central research complex"? What do you think?

b.) Implementation: If indeed it is justified to allocate more resources towards such a research complex, who should be responsible for 1) the initial investment required to start things up and 2) the funding required to keep operations afloat and running? Should this be done at the aggregate level for your "central research complex," with Ben Nebres or Miren Intal heading the thing from on high? What kind of contributions should you expect from individual departments? Do you "tax" the departments by appropriating funds from them in a coercive fashion? How do you determine how much each department is "taxed"? Or does AdMU already have some kind of fungible budget for research for which faculty from various departments apply (hint: See Ali's post)?

Notice that I haven't provided any kind of "definite answer" to the question of whether or not a research complex should be built. The end result of it all is that it may indeed be best to build a central research complex. However, I do believe that you are fairly intelligent, thoughtful and that you can think and decide for yourself, tesseract. All I've tried to do is raise a few more questions and issues you might want to consider. Given these issues that Ali, rabbaddal and I have raised, what are your thoughts on your proposal?

[Ali]

Oh my, the big guns are here.

I will have to ponder the posts regarding research centers some more. victory's questions are especially intriguing.

But offhand, this is my personal (and admittedly unmeditated) opinion. At this point in our history, a physical, monolithic research structure is quite infeasible, and practically impossible for the Ateneo. We simply cannot afford to allocate the resources required to bring such an entity to par. I'm even leery of a consolidated, monolithic research thrust for the University at this point.

It seems to me that the research the Ateneo has been producing is born precisely because the University has not become an economy of scale with regard to research. This is, of course, simply an impression. But the character of Ateneo research feels almost entrepreneurial to me. It certainly is an exciting place to be in the humanities. Mostly because we're full of trailblazers and mavericks rather than formal academics.

With this in mind, I feel the Ateneo, at this point in our history, is better off nurturing a culture of research rather than building a research monolith, whether physical or administrative. There must be ways of creating an intellectual critical mass that will propel research in the Ateneo from within.

On a sillier note...

My friends and I made this insane scenario way back. It's grown to epic proportions.

Meron naman talagang ultra state-of-the-art research center ang Ateneo. Marami.

The Meron Lagoon conceals one of many secret entrances to a vast underground complex where the Jesuits continually defend us from alien invasion and demonic conquest using their superior technology. Fr. McNamara is hard at work constructing a faster-than-light engine that runs on Ateneo Iced Tea. (And Fr. Ferriols is training an army of psychic-philosopher-exorcists who will do combat with the forces of darkness.)

And ever wonder why Fr. Joey Cruz wears the same white shirt day after day? He's a member of the MIB. Mainit lang dito, so he leaves his coat in the JR.

Under the SEC lies a vast hangar where Fr. Jet Villarin is busy constructing a huge laser cannon to vaporize the comet Medusa which threatens to collide with the Earth on July 12, 2002 and end life as we know it.

Sige. Tama na nga. Nababaliw na talaga ako...

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by victory

a.) Assuming AdMU as a whole and its departments specifically have some kind of funding or resource available, how should these be allocated efficiently? There are students demanding for more classrooms and facilities, alumni demanding more get-togethers and avenues through which they could get involved or keep in touch, and teachers clamoring for higher salaries -- not even to produce good research but to just get by. The AdMU's SOM got a windfall of PHP200MM through the Gokongwei grant: How much will YOU devote to building a "research center," if your analysis in part 1 says that benefits do outweigh the costs? Half of this amount? All of it? Should AdMU's "central government" appropriate part or the entire amount so that it could create your dream of a "central research complex"? What do you think?



Half of the grant will be going to victory's professorial chair, pero baka kulang pa yan. :)

Speaking of demand, it looks like what Ateneo is doing right now is identifying specific areas where there will be a reasonable demand for research and get the ball rolling from there. The environment is a good starting point since many Philippine companies are beginning to realize the implications that their operations have on the environment. It would be nice if Ateneo could put up a biosphere similar to what Columbia already has in Arizona. Maybe it will in a few decades.

[tesseract]

victory --

Thank you for your questions.

Regarding the math-english researcher collaboration, I do think that such would be rather ridiculous. It is, in fact, quite obvious. Areason for having a centralized center of research as I brought up earlier is that such a center will at least provide a proper venue for different units and departments of the University to conduct research activities -- this can perhaps be accomplished by the complex's having collection of laboratories (computer, math, biology, chem, physics, etc.), simulation rooms (more computers, operations research, biodomes, etc.), case study rooms (soc sci, etc.), and so on. Moreover, the said center can house an extension of the library, or whatever. In short, yes, a "warehouse of knowledge," but more than that, a "warehouse of innovation." Innovation and research -- imagine if the Ateneo can actually do things similar to say, Princeton's tokamak fusion reactor, or to MIT's OR lab. Again, innovation. Why centralize it? It really isn't so much an absolute centralization of University-wide research, it's more of a housing of a collection of research-oriented facilities. Something similar to how SEC has lots of laboratories, perhaps, only on a greater scale.

If the Ateneo were indeed to "nurture a culture of research," why not have a "crib" for the said nurturing? In our search for that intellectual critical mass, we may as well have a place where that mass can really form. Perhaps I can cut down on the rather grandiose idea of research -- keep the ISO running, and keep the other research areas of the University going. But at least have that center as home base of the Ateneo Research and Development Network.

Now, as you pointed out, we do have a problem: Opportunity costs, trade-offs and fiscal responsibility.

I understand the limits that monetary concerns impose on the feasibility of putting up such a facility. So how does one stick to such a plan when such funds are limited?

Let the SOM grant from Gokongwei stay with the SOM. Look elsewhere for the funding.

I'd hate to say it, but look for philantrophists who are willing to share what they can. And by speaking of philantrophists, why not turn to the most obvious first choice -- the alumni? Ah, but then the question remains, will the alumni actually get involved? Maybe. I'm pretty sure quite a lot actually want to get involved in improving the university, but as you pointed out, there has been an inadequecy of get-togethers, or on a more general note, of awareness of as to what they can do. I'm pretty sure Fr. Caluag can work something out. Again and again -- look for philantrophists and generous benefactors. Work harder with the government. In short, be agressive.

How will we keep it up and running? I believe that research funding (in the situation when research is actually demanded and given a financial grant to proceed) can devote a certain amount to the upkeep and operations of the facility.

Given your points, I'm actually thinking about the realistic possibility of setting something like this up. What do I think? I still don't think it's a bad idea. It just needs to be executed properly.

Now, to change mindsets.

How would you do it? Or would you do it at all?

[victory]

tesseract --

Think about the examples you just cited: Princeton's Tokamak fusion reactor was operated c/o the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory -- do you see the theoretical/mathematical physicists there? What about the astrophysicists? Tokamak does not have platforms and telescopes through which one can observe the movement of heavenly bodies, although the building does have some windows through which one can observe some of the heavenly bodies strolling around campus. This is even more specialization than what AdMU has. Princeton even disaggregates their physics department into "theoretical" and "experimental" areas, although they do make allowances for "interdisciplinary" pursuits they share with other departments like computational biology and integrative genomics. But I don't see the physicists collaborating a lot with the economists.

MIT's OR Center "sort of" brings together mathematicians, economists, statisticians and engineers -- but only because OR itself is interdisciplinary in nature and origin. Look at the way they classify their faculty -- "list of affiliated faculty" -- which means that by and large a lot of these "affiliated faculty" do in fact hold office at more specialized departments.

As with any program for change and innovation, you must first take stock of your starting point to map out precisely where you want to go, and how you'll get there. Think about it: Given the disaggregated and specialized nature of scholarly inquiry (many of your AdMU teachers are "Renaissance people" who have varied personal interests, but if they are truly cutting-edge academics in their field you will find that they publish in very specialized journals), how would you even entice faculty to patronize your "center for research"?

Let's get down to the nuts and bolts of it with a practical, hypothetical example: May office si Ali sa philo department. Nandun yung PC niya, yung mga libro niya, yung favorite ballpen niya, yung admin asst nila na mahusay magtimpla ng kape, at dun siya hinahanap ng mga estudyante niya. To top it all off, all of his faculty colleagues are just a few steps away -- Padre Roque, Manny Dy, etc. They are the ones who talk about the latest developments in philosophy, the latest conference to which they must go, the latest idea they want to push.

Tapos papalakarin mo si Ali sa bandang SEC (where else in AdMU would you put a new building with the kind of facilities you described?)? O kaya sa "extension ng Rizal Library"? Bibigyan mo siya ng pangalawang workspace dun? A second computer where he can write his thoughts down? Tatawag o babalik na lang siya sa Philo Dept para makausap yung mga katrabaho niya? Pa'no yung favorite coffee niya? Eh kung naiwan niya yung favorite ballpen niya sa office niya sa Philo Dept? How much "truly cutting-edge research work" (not admin or Committee work!) do you think goes on between faculty at the Philo Dept and people like Fr. Nemy Que and Tonette Angeles who now hold office in other parts of AdMU? More than when they used to hold office more often in the Philo Dept? Less? The same?

Think also in terms of marginal benefits and marginal costs: What is the marginal benefit of such a research center, given what we already have? Can you measure or justify this? We already identified a few cost drivers above -- workspace alone will cost money. Duplication of equipment in use would be another. Where do you draw the line between truly adding marginal value to what we already have and just duplicating efforts?

As for their broad personal interests as "Renaissance people," the faculty already have gathering places to exchange views, talk and chill out on an informal level. It's called the cafeteria, or the various lounge areas in campus. Personally, my own good friends in AdMU are scattered far and wide: They hold office in the departments of Philosophy, Theology, English, Filipino, Mathematics, Chemistry, IS, Physics, Political Science, History, the Office of Admission and Aid, and the President's Office -- as well as the various SOM departments. We used to go out for lunch and dinner, jog, go to movies, visit places like Sagada and enjoy schoolwide events like sportsfests, and teacher-training stuff. Sometimes we talk about each other's work, often we bounce around ideas we may have in our heads on an informal level. More often than not we just goof around and laugh very loudly. And we talk about interesting things that happened in class, or funny things our students did or said.

But cutting-edge research work because all of us had this one centralized building or institution, on top of the offices and departments that already exist? Hmm...

Maybe you are right at the end of the day. I still have to think things through before I can come to any conclusion, though.

Your thoughts, tesseract? rabbaddal? Ali?

[rabbaddal]

I still want that biosphere!:)

Start w/ the basics - physics, chemistry, biology, etc. A marine biology station would also be a welcome facility.

[victory]

Off-topic

By the way, tesseract -- kumusta ang first year M.E. studies? Have you gotten to know many of your classmates yet? My wife took up M.E. in College and enjoyed the experience tremendously. She managed to pass the difficulties of M.E. and ended up doing fairly well when she graduated.


posted by rabbaddal

I still want that biosphere!

Start w/ the basics - physics, chemistry, biology, etc. A marine biology station would also be a welcome facility.


rabbaddal, looks like you're getting a bit of Greenpeace in your blood. Marine biology station? Maybe in an area that's more or less at sea level? You're not thinking of building one at Loyola Heights, are you? Then again, after you get your MBA at Columbia and start raking a hefty sum of money you can pretty much donate funds and support your favorite cause...

Kumusta na ba ang pag-aaral? I heard they are looking for a lot of interns at Worldcom, by the way. Some high-profile job involving accounting and financial reporting issues. :)

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by victory
Off-topic


Kumusta na ba ang pag-aaral? I heard they are looking for a lot of interns at Worldcom, by the way. Some high-profile job involving accounting and financial reporting issues.

I had to turn down the offer. I'm signing up as an apprentice for Martha Stewart's personal stockbroker.

[tesseract]

Aaah. A logistical problem. Something your wife's OR might be able to help you with.

I'm playing, of course, with my intuition here.

It's not so much as having "cutting edge work because of a centralized whatever on top of other existing whatevers." It's not that. It's just providing a common venue, a common facility. That's it.

Now, on to your next inquiry:

Kamusta ang ME? I'm fine. I got caught by Dr. Quimpo as I was starting to doze off. Twice. I feel bad about it, actually. Other than that, I'm doing fine. I'm actually playing around (ask Ali, he knows just how much playing around I might be inclined to do).

[victory]

posted by tesseract

Aaah. A logistical problem. Something your wife's OR might be able to help you with.

I'm playing, of course, with my intuition here.

It's not so much as having "cutting edge work because of a centralized whatever on top of other existing whatevers." It's not that. It's just providing a common venue, a common facility. That's it.

Now, on to your next inquiry:

Kamusta ang ME? I'm fine. I got caught by Dr. Quimpo as I was starting to doze off. Twice. I feel bad about it, actually. Other than that, I'm doing fine. I'm actually playing around (ask Ali, he knows just how much playing around I might be inclined to do).


Wrong, tesseract. It's not just a logistical problem. You're not thinking in terms of marginal benefits and costs yet. You're not thinking about the merits of centralization versus decentralization yet. You're not thinking about the nature of higher academic inquiry and why existing institutions seem to favor specialization more than having "generalists." Wake up. Think harder. Work harder. Stop playing around unless you mean for this topic to be the stuff of play -- I certainly took your suggestion seriously, even if we're just trading "intuitions" here.

Then again, these are probably things you will learn in your junior or senior year of M.E. -- IF you get assigned to fairly competent teachers...

I can assure you that what I know of OR at this point is far more advanced than anything anyone in AdMU can offer. The logistics can easily be optimized; I can do the calculations over lunch -- but your prior assumption of having a common venue or facility with logistical issues (related to existing facilities) that are worth optimizing is what is being questioned here. You have to establish your prior before you move on to optimization.

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm demanding a lot more from you from what may have started as an off-the-cuff post or comment; I tend to be a very demanding person when I engage people in dialogue -- but only if I feel like you have the brain and fortitude to take the pressure.

[tesseract]

Originally posted by victory


Wrong, tesseract. It's not just a logistical problem. You're not thinking in terms of marginal benefits and costs yet. You're not thinking about the merits of centralization versus decentralization yet. You're not thinking about the nature of higher academic inquiry and why existing institutions seem to favor specialization more than having "generalists." Wake up. Think harder. Work harder. Stop playing around unless you mean for this topic to be the stuff of play -- I certainly took your suggestion seriously, even if we're just trading "intuitions" here.

Then again, these are probably things you will learn in your junior or senior year of M.E. -- IF you get assigned to fairly competent teachers...

I can assure you that what I know of OR at this point is far more advanced than anything anyone in AdMU can offer. The logistics can easily be optimized; I can do the calculations over lunch -- but your prior assumption of having a common venue or facility with logistical issues (related to existing facilities) that are worth optimizing is what is being questioned here. You have to establish your prior before you move on to optimization.

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm demanding a lot more from you from what may have started as an off-the-cuff post or comment; I tend to be a very demanding person when I engage people in dialogue -- but only if I feel like you have the brain and fortitude to take the pressure.

That's very flattering.

Now, onto the inquiry.

Marginal benefits and costs. Pros and cons. Hmm. The centralization still has the offer of a venue (in effect, a grand specialization of multidisciplinary research) specifically dedicated to the task of research. Ayan. What marginal benefits? It depends on how well-furnished the facility will be. Same goes for costs. What I consider the greatest benefit is still that -- the presence of a multidisciplinary center of research. I'm not saying screw the departments and what we have now. I'm just saying create a hub that can serve as base of operations for research initiatives. If Ali, taken from your example, wants to continue working in his comfy workplace, fine. But the facility will still be there for him to use, should he need to. SEC will still be around. The labs in Faura will still be around. Fine.

Come to think of it, the "centralization" of research in such a manner would even decentralize the departmental research, by providing a redundant system that is available for use. This redundancy also implies availability -- through this anyone who might need to do research can do so. Need a lab? Schedule. Use. Need to do a case study? There are rooms available. And so on. The center can free up the existing facilities so that they can be used for other tasks. Or one can dedicate the research complex to the graduate students and to the faculty, while the undergrads get the rest. Or whatever.

As for the nature of higher academic inquiry, the center doesn't intend to make "generalists" of the faculty. In fact, it's supposed to be a tool that can help them become better "specialists." The only thing is, that the center actually provides a platform that might allow them, should they choose to, synergize.

I understand the nature of your competence, or at least I think I do. I wonder if I might get you as a teacher.

[Ali]

I just lost a long, profound reply because of my erratic connection. But such is life, as a colleague of mine is wont to say.

With that out of the way and with apologies to my esteemed colleague victory, light and bubbly answers. Late na kasi, eh.Let's get down to the nuts and bolts of it with a practical, hypothetical example: May office si Ali sa philo department. Nandun yung PC niya, yung mga libro niya, yung favorite ballpen niya, yung admin asst nila na mahusay magtimpla ng kape, at dun siya hinahanap ng mga estudyante niya. To top it all off, all of his faculty colleagues are just a few steps away -- Padre Roque, Manny Dy, etc. They are the ones who talk about the latest developments in philosophy, the latest conference to which they must go, the latest idea they want to push.Sadly, my PC and my favorite ballpen, and the rest of my things are now at home, in my room. I prefer Nestea to coffee and always mix my own, and I go to the Department only once weekly or so.Tapos papalakarin mo si Ali sa bandang SEC (where else in AdMU would you put a new building with the kind of facilities you described?)?Funny you mention that. Pinalakad na ako ni tesseract doon. Not an easy task, mind you. My knee's not-quite-mended.O kaya sa "extension ng Rizal Library"?Doon din.

Are you clairvoyant?Bibigyan mo siya ng pangalawang workspace dun? A second computer where he can write his thoughts down? Tatawag o babalik na lang siya sa Philo Dept para makausap yung mga katrabaho niya? Pa'no yung favorite coffee niya? Eh kung naiwan niya yung favorite ballpen niya sa office niya sa Philo Dept? How much "truly cutting-edge research work" (not admin or Committee work!) do you think goes on between faculty at the Philo Dept and people like Fr. Nemy Que and Tonette Angeles who now hold office in other parts of AdMU? More than when they used to hold office more often in the Philo Dept? Less? The same?Now for the more serious reply. We dispossessed philosophers (that is, we teachers, who by virtue of administrative duties or graduate studies, have places of work outside the Department of Philosophy) evaporate. We disappear. We vanish. We fade into oblivion.

OK. I exaggerate. But contact between the cubicled faculty and the migrants certainly decreases significantly. I even find that true of members of the Department engaged in some interdisciplinary project. Cases in point, the faculty mentioned in the M.S.E.M., faculty engaged in the Myth project, Science and Religion, Business Ethics (based in Rockwell), and many other concerns. Does this mean we should all remain on the second floor of De la Costa? Of course not. But it does imply that in this case, at least, too much centralization and interdisciplinarity may be detrimental to our particular research culture.

Hala ka, tesseract. Huli ka. :)

In defense of tesseract, the playing around he's referring to isn't an idle unproductive pursuit, but something closer to Gadamer's notion of play. Or Shakespeare's for that matter.

I'm tempted to go into a tirade about how all authentic human life is precisely the stuff of play. But I'll leave that in my papers and out of the boards for now.

Just a thought. I notice how tesseract is enamored by venues and facilities, when more than venues and facilities, I feel opportunities and communities build research. With regard to venues and facilities, the Ateneo remains ill-equipped. But with regard to opportunities and communities, I feel the Ateneo is particularly well-equipped, or at least on the right track.

Last point. victory's correct. Real Dialogue© ought to be demanding. And I believe even small talk can achieve a measure of profundity. Even ideas born of idle thought ought to be subjected to rigorous scrutiny. That, far more than a complex, encourages knowledge to grow.

Sorry for that rambling reply. But I think I have a decent point or two hidden there.

And my workplace was comfy. Too comfy, in fact. Which is why I moved the operation to my bedroom.

[Bluest]

If we can build a Moro Lorenzo Sports Center, why not a "Horacio dela Costa" Research Center? An exclusive place for faculty members where they can hang out (an alternative to their respective departments) and spend some time for research, writing papers, quiet reflection, intelllectual stimulus, etc. It can be a building with small offices or cubicles that can be used temporarily for extended periods or whatever. Sometimes, it may be a good idea to separate the "teaching" stuff (leave this in the department) from the "research" stuff (leave this in the research center). A change of environment can stimulate a different mode of thinking, behaving and might promote some form of creativity. After all, we have classrooms for teaching, departments for preparing lesson plans, gyms for athletics, cafeterias for eating, chapels for praying, toilets for taking a crap (and thinking as well as far as I am concerned)............. why not a research center for researching.

Just a thought.

[tesseract]

Ayan, dumadami ang naglalaro. Yehey.

Ali, a word about your little thing on decentralization: BORG.

:)

[Ali]

We are Borg.

Resistance is futile.

You will comply.

[tesseract]

Originally posted by Ali
We are Borg.

Resistance is futile.

You will comply.

I Q, therefore is is.

[Ali]

Itong landas tungo sa sagot sa ating katanungan ay hindi isang pagkalas sa kasaysayan, hindi isang pagtakwil sa kasaysayan, kundi isang pag-angkin at pagpapanibago ng bagay na ipinamana sa atin sa tradisyon. Itong pag-angkin na ito sa kasaysayan ay siyang pinakahuhulugan ng katagang “destruksiyon.” [Destruktion]. ... Ang destruksiyon ay hindi nangangahulugang pagwasak kundi pagbaklas [Abbauen], paglipol [Abtragen], pagsasantabi ng mga pawang istorikong pagsasaad.... Ang destruksiyon ay nangangahulugang: buksan ang ating pandinig, palayain ang ating sarili para sa nangungusap sa atin sa tradisyon...

Martin Heidegger, Die Philosophie: Was is das?

victory mentioned settling prior assumptions before optimizing, and I guess that's what the more serious portion of this thread's been about.

I quoted a philosophy text, because that's as basic as you can get. It's a warning of sorts against both unmeditated construction and hasty deconstruction. When it comes to structures (both physical and organizational), a great deal of dismantling and judicious retrenchment is required before anything is built.

Serious business requires serious thought. Serious not only in the sense of rigor and effort, but serious in terms of a radical openness to the ebb and flow of situations, needs, solutions, and what-have-you.

In Trek terms:

tesseract's fascination with erecting a Borg cube on the former cornfield beside Gate 3 is certainly appealing. But I suspect his fascination with the Borg is based on his fascination with Seven-of-Nine. Which is completely understandable. She certainly is...superior.

But may I point out that Seven became a babe only after she had been severed from the collective. And may I point out the fact that she doesn't even exist as a distinct subsistent with its own actus essendi. She's Geri Ryan, for crying out loud!

The Borg accusation stares them right in the face. The assumption that consolidation is inherently superior to individuation is flawed. And therefore, any structure built upon that shall, by their own principle of assimilation, flawed as well. Seven-of-Nine is living proof of Borg weakness. The Borg Queen is a performative contradiction. The excuses Trekkers toss around to explain the Borg simply underscore their imperfection.

Remember the ducks in our Farm University? Wala noon sa Borg Space.

Besides, the series Voyager itself was not the product of the massive corporate effort that churns out Star Trek. Voyager is the brain-child of Brannon Braga, an independent fan who had no previous background or support. So much for research centers.

The entire debate about revolutions in knowledge, is, of course, much more complex and intricate than this post's radical simplifications. There are legitimate advocates of both the 'Borg Cube' and the 'Farm University with Ducks'. See Kuhn and Feyerabend for details.

And you can't hide behind the Q. He's no match for my Jedi powers.

Sige. Tulog na ako. This is getting weird.

[tesseract]

Originally posted by Ali
Itong landas tungo sa sagot sa ating katanungan ay hindi isang pagkalas sa kasaysayan, hindi isang pagtakwil sa kasaysayan, kundi isang pag-angkin at pagpapanibago ng bagay na ipinamana sa atin sa tradisyon. Itong pag-angkin na ito sa kasaysayan ay siyang pinakahuhulugan ng katagang “destruksiyon.” [Destruktion]. ... Ang destruksiyon ay hindi nangangahulugang pagwasak kundi pagbaklas [Abbauen], paglipol [Abtragen], pagsasantabi ng mga pawang istorikong pagsasaad.... Ang destruksiyon ay nangangahulugang: buksan ang ating pandinig, palayain ang ating sarili para sa nangungusap sa atin sa tradisyon...

Martin Heidegger, Die Philosophie: Was is das?

victory mentioned settling prior assumptions before optimizing, and I guess that's what the more serious portion of this thread's been about.

I quoted a philosophy text, because that's as basic as you can get. It's a warning of sorts against both unmeditated construction and hasty deconstruction. When it comes to structures (both physical and organizational), a great deal of dismantling and judicious retrenchment is required before anything is built.

Serious business requires serious thought. Serious not only in the sense of rigor and effort, but serious in terms of a radical openness to the ebb and flow of situations, needs, solutions, and what-have-you.

In Trek terms:

tesseract's fascination with erecting a Borg cube on the former cornfield beside Gate 3 is certainly appealing. But I suspect his fascination with the Borg is based on his fascination with Seven-of-Nine. Which is completely understandable. She certainly is...superior.

But may I point out that Seven became a babe only after she had been severed from the collective. And may I point out the fact that she doesn't even exist as a distinct subsistent with its own actus essendi. She's Geri Ryan, for crying out loud!

The Borg accusation stares them right in the face. The assumption that consolidation is inherently superior to individuation is flawed. And therefore, any structure built upon that shall, by their own principle of assimilation, flawed as well. Seven-of-Nine is living proof of Borg weakness. The Borg Queen is a performative contradiction. The excuses Trekkers toss around to explain the Borg simply underscore their imperfection.

Remember the ducks in our Farm University? Wala noon sa Borg Space.

Besides, the series Voyager itself was not the product of the massive corporate effort that churns out Star Trek. Voyager is the brain-child of Brannon Braga, an independent fan who had no previous background or support. So much for research centers.

The entire debate about revolutions in knowledge, is, of course, much more complex and intricate than this post's radical simplifications. There are legitimate advocates of both the 'Borg Cube' and the 'Farm University with Ducks'. See Kuhn and Feyerabend for details.

And you can't hide behind the Q. He's no match for my Jedi powers.

Sige. Tulog na ako. This is getting weird.

First of all, my fascination with the Borg is not based on Seven of Nine. My fascination with Seven is distinct from that of the Borg.

Wasn't that thing about the flaws of the Borg dicto simpliciter?

[Ali]

You're using Latin on me. I can't believe it.

If I had argued that the Borg were flawed based merely on Seven's aberrant existence, then I would have been reasoninga dicto simpliciter ad dictum secundum quid. But in reverse.

Begin Logic Lesson.

Dicto Simpliciter, the Fallacy of Accident, or Hasty Generalization, formally, goes like this: The Borg are normally perfect, and Seven-of-Nine is Borg, therefore Seven-of-Nine is perfect. In reverse, Seven-of-Nine is flawed, and Seven-of-Nine is Borg, therefore the Borg are flawed. (It's one of Aristotle's Thirteen Fallacies, incidentally. But when they teach it in High school, they usually remove the normative part. In its pure form, it's an argument leading fallaciously from normative generalization to unsubstantiated conclusion, so strictly, it's not just 'Hasty Generalization'.)

End Logic Lesson.

But that's not what I said. I said: The assumption that consolidation is inherently superior to individuation is flawed.

Seven was merely an anecdotal appendage.

My Borg generalization may have been hasty, but it is not merely based on Seven, but on several years of exposure to the Borg and to other beings in science fiction and fantasy organized along hive/collective lines.

But I was incorrect in equating your fascination with Seven with a fascination with the Borg. She certainly is fascinating in and of herself.

[tesseract]

Originally posted by Ali
You're using Latin on me. I can't believe it.

If I had argued that the Borg were flawed based merely on Seven's aberrant existence, then I would have been reasoninga dicto simpliciter ad dictum secundum quid. But in reverse.

Begin Logic Lesson.

Dicto Simpliciter, the Fallacy of Accident, or Hasty Generalization, formally, goes like this: The Borg are normally perfect, and Seven-of-Nine is Borg, therefore Seven-of-Nine is perfect. In reverse, Seven-of-Nine is flawed, and Seven-of-Nine is Borg, therefore the Borg are flawed. (It's one of Aristotle's Thirteen Fallacies, incidentally. But when they teach it in High school, they usually remove the normative part. In its pure form, it's an argument leading fallaciously from normative generalization to unsubstantiated conclusion, so strictly, it's not just 'Hasty Generalization'.)

End Logic Lesson.

But that's not what I said. I said: The assumption that consolidation is inherently superior to individuation is flawed.

Seven was merely an anecdotal appendage.

My Borg generalization may have been hasty, but it is not merely based on Seven, but on several years of exposure to the Borg and to other beings in science fiction and fantasy organized along hive/collective lines.

But I was incorrect in equating your fascination with Seven with a fascination with the Borg. She certainly is fascinating in and of herself.

Mea culpa.

Flawed? Bakit?

Seven of Nine is fascinating in and of herself. She has her own little world. Two of them, in fact. Hint, hint.

[Ali]

Little? Um... No.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

The argument is flawed, kasi isipin mo na lang. Gusto mo bang maging Borg? Malamang hindi. Look at the Nazis. Look at the difference between EDSA Dos and the so-called EDSA Tres. EDSA Dos was weird, because while we were gathered, there was very little substantial agreement among the various factions, except for the fact that they wanted Erap out. EDSA Tres was more united and consolidated. My point is that we have to look at things other than consolidation for the efficacy of any enterprise.

Anyway, before this thread degenerates further let's steer it back to the topic.

The Ateneo has been changing. Changing quite fast at that. Previous posts have made that quite clear.

But one of my bigger concerns is this. The Ateneo is deficient in telling its stakeholders in clear and distinct terms precisely where it wants to go and how it intends to get there. Not to mention that there is a perceived lack of consultation. I'm sure the Ateneo's been making some effort to consult and inform. But even people like me are somewhat in the dark. And have you spoken with students lately? Exept for a few (like tesseract), they generally just let the Ateneo's changes fall as they will around them. And I'm tired of people who make 'apathy' the eternal scapegoat. You can't blame a poorly informed and poorly consulted populace for not caring too much.

The 'Grand M.E. Reunion' was a sad example. I felt it was a squandered opportunity. People who've been away for ages were looking for ways to get involved in the Ateneo's growth. But the only tangible opportunities for involvement were several sign-up sheets on a desk manned by MEA undergraduates who couldn't even explain what the sheets were for. They didn't even get the hint or do anything (except beg) when more than half the audience walked out after almost two hours of speeches.

[victory]

posted by Ali

But one of my bigger concerns is this. The Ateneo is deficient in telling its stakeholders in clear and distinct terms precisely where it wants to go and how it intends to get there. Not to mention that there is a perceived lack of consultation. I'm sure the Ateneo's been making some effort to consult and inform. But even people like me are somewhat in the dark. And have you spoken with students lately? Exept for a few (like tesseract), they generally just let the Ateneo's changes fall as they will around them. And I'm tired of people who make 'apathy' the eternal scapegoat. You can't blame a poorly informed and poorly consulted populace for not caring too much.

Ali, have you ever heard about the concept of "rational ignorance" (or as in the case you pointed out above, "rational apathy")?

There is a cost to gathering information about various initiatives that will improve the Ateneo community; a cost to analyzing and comparing options and deciding on which is best to implement given limited resources. Add this to the fact that the "improvement of the Ateneo community" is in fact a public good with the essential feature of nonexcludability (you can't exclude other people affiliated with AdMU from benefiting from "the improvement of the community"), and voila: You have free riders. Alumni who would much rather rely on the active few to push initiatives forward. Students who would much rather rely on those whose preferences are inclined towards cocurricular involvement to be the "voice of the student body." Faculty would much rather rely on those with a penchant for administration to bother with the details of how to "best improve AdMU."

Besides, what are the benefits of being "fully informed about the issues"? What kind of influence can you really have on how the administration makes decisions, as a College student? What kind of additional costs would you have to bear if you wanted to get involved, serve on committees, etc.? How many hours do you have to put in to serve in the Sanggunian? Do you need to create your own organization for your own special pet project? Might your grades suffer as a result of this cause you are pursuing?

And so tesseract, if he were acting "rationally" (that is, utility maximizing), might respond: Why should I bother to help out AdMU if active, committed people like Ali are working their asses off to improve the community? I will benefit from being affiliated with an institution that has greater prestige, etc. -- and I don't even have to lift a finger to enjoy these "benefits." :) It is completely "rational" for me to be ignorant and apathetic -- I benefit from the efforts of a committed few and I can concentrate my efforts on things that are of immediate concern, like getting good grades in M.E., posting in PeX and Atenista.net, and perhaps trying to look good in front of chicks I want to impress.

The issue is compounded even further if you consider the objective function of those who are in positions where they can make decisions, i.e., administrators. Posit a basic lack of accountability and interest group competition and they will want more "maneuvering space" to implement their chosen policies: There is a cost to disseminating information to the general populace. There is a cost to gathering the opinions of people. It is also impossible to come up with a dominant policy choice if there are more than two constituents and more than two policy choices. So if my utility as an administrator comes from some value to being able to make decisions, plus my own need to satisfy influential constituents (organized interest groups like donors, for example), why should I keep the general Ateneo populace informed and risk having them veto some preferred policy of mine? Keep them in the dark = more elbow room and "maneuvering space." Why do you think politicians are fond of implementing projects that seem to provide some benefits (Build another road? Sure, sounds like a good idea!) but are hard to evaluate on a marginal scale ("do we really need another road, given what we already have?")? More elbow room for possible side payments to organized interest groups is one explanation (ref: Buchanan & Tullock, 1962).

These are called public choice and collective action problems. The off-the-cuff analysis I provided above does not pretend to explain what the ideal ought to be (the normative), but rather shed light on underlying forces at play that bring about what we observe in reality (the positive). Given the objective functions of the players involved, does anyone have brilliant ideas about how one might go about solving these kinds of problems? Come on... optimization lang ito, diba? :) Where might the analysis fall short? If the model described above, even with its simplifications, is indeed powerful and parsimonious enough to capture what goes on in reality, what are the policy implications (the prescriptive) of all of this if we want to move from the positive to the normative?

[Ali]

It is completely "rational" for me to be ignorant and apathetic -- I benefit from the efforts of a committed few and I can concentrate my efforts on things that are of immediate concern, like getting good grades in M.E., posting in PeX and Atenista.net, and perhaps trying to look good in front of chicks I want to impress.May pinatatamaan ka yata. :)

Anyway, to begin with, from your discussion, rational ignorance and rational apathy seem reasonable. However, the terms, particularly rational ignorance, are almost oxymoronic. To maintain ignorance or apathy can only be rational up to a certain point, because ignorance and apathy are inherently irrational states.

A radical disavowal of knowledge seems irrational to me. Total denial of responsibility is equally irrational.

(Definitions of rationality, of course, differ. If you don't agree that knowledge and responsibility are reasonable, then we have little common ground.)

I think that rational apathy can remain rational only in so far as it is informed. That is, it is only reasonable to abdicate responsibility when you know you're abdicating. Otherwise, you don't even know. You ought not judge a person who doesn't know for not caring.

Besides, that wasn't my main problem. As I see it, Atenean ignorance and apathy are states of oppression and marginalization. It may be rational or irrational. Great. But over and above its irrationality, it's a situation brought about by the way the Ateneo has been doing things.

As things stand, even people who would probably want to know the issues don't have the necessary information. I mentioned the 'Grand M.E. Alumni Homecoming' because it was a scathing example. We were there. We wanted to care. But the evening was bereft of opportunities. I would like to think that community involvement would rise if only information were more available.

And speaking about costs, everything costs something. Surprise surprise. Even the current system of misinformation is the product of much expense and effort. The structures of dissemination are already there. They're just mismanaged. The cost of mining and focusing information is probably marginal.

I'm rather smug about this, because an unusually large proportion of my junior students assume positions of leadership in senior year. And as much as I would like to think that my classes attract movers and shakers, my observations tell me a different story. I get the same Ateneans that every other teacher does. But because we take the 'homeroom' aspect of our philosophy class seriously and discuss the school, organizations, involvement, and other issues, we open avenues for involvement and responsibility.

If Ateneans want to ride for free, whoopee doo. Good for them. But I think there is a qualitative difference between the tick who knows he's on a dog, sucking blood and the tick who doesn't.

victory proposes this chilling model.The issue is compounded even further if you consider the objective function of those who are in positions where they can make decisions, i.e., administrators. Posit a basic lack of accountability and interest group competition and they will want more "maneuvering space" to implement their chosen policies: There is a cost to disseminating information to the general populace. There is a cost to gathering the opinions of people. It is also impossible to come up with a dominant policy choice if there are more than two constituents and more than two policy choices. So if my utility as an administrator comes from some value to being able to make decisions, plus my own need to satisfy influential constituents (organized interest groups like donors, for example), why should I keep the general Ateneo populace informed and risk having them veto some preferred policy of mine? Keep them in the dark = more elbow room and "maneuvering space."This is certainly how the whole fiasco about Eve Ensler's The Vagina Monologues felt.

It's also a growing perception among faculty and students.

However, I would like to hope that this perception is flawed and that the Ateneo isn't intentionally keeping the school dark.These are called public choice and collective action problems. The off-the-cuff analysis I provided above does not pretend to explain what the ideal ought to be (the normative), but rather shed light on underlying forces at play that bring about what we observe in reality (the positive).Being a student of philosophy, I am as concerned with the normative as with the positive and prescriptive aspects.

But let's not even get into the ethical unperpinnings. The Ateneo's VMO clearly mandates community empowerment.

Look. We always spout things like Lux in Domino, We Believe!. and Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam.

Here's what the Ateneo VMO says:To be "light in the Lord" in all fullness demands moving insistently and deliberately towards God as the center of a person's life, identifying the issues that such a centering poses, and then moving out to the world to find ever new ways of constructing the edifice, cultivating the garden, painting the masterpiece, that God is unfolding in one's life.But is this happening as it ought to?

If not, any prescriptions?

[Mikoid]

Pedagogy aside, another problem the Loyola Schools has is a TRASH PROBLEM!!!

Dropped by the campus an hour ago (a bit after lunch) and found that the benches between Food for Thought and De La Costa were littered with styro food containers and drink cans. The trash cans next to Food for Thought were full, but you'd think students would be more conscientious than to just throw stuff anywhere they please.

It was most disheartening, and I wonder if it reflects a certain detachment by the powers-that-be.

As for other inanities, I also deplore the fact that they've closed the driveway at Xavier Hall. This driveway is the most logical place to drop off students (and beloved faculty :)) and is the only driveway capable of absorbing the massive amount of traffic that flows into the College on a daily basis. However, the powers-that-be have inexplicably closed it to vehicular traffic for most of the day.

No directive has been issued to inform drivers that the new whole-day drop-off point is the one at Gonzaga.

The result? People are now stopping in front of the Xavier Hall flagpole and in front of the Rizal Mini-Theater to unload, creating a more extensive traffic mess.

Haaaaay....

[tesseract]

Ali -- Tinatamaan? Asan? :)

Aside from those things you said we say (AMDG, We Believe, etc.), you forgot the new UAAP season slogan:

Got to believe.

Kidding aside.

victory -- If I were focusing on things that were of my immediate concern, I wouldn't even bother with this. But I am. And if you think you have a pretty good idea about my "immediate concerns," ask Ali. :)

[Oscar01]

Originally posted by victory
These are called public choice and collective action problems. The off-the-cuff analysis I provided above does not pretend to explain what the ideal ought to be (the normative), but rather shed light on underlying forces at play that bring about what we observe in reality (the positive). Given the objective functions of the players involved, does anyone have brilliant ideas about how one might go about solving these kinds of problems? Come on... optimization lang ito, diba? :) Where might the analysis fall short? If the model described above, even with its simplifications, is indeed powerful and parsimonious enough to capture what goes on in reality, what are the policy implications (the prescriptive) of all of this if we want to move from the positive to the normative?
Does this imply that victory can fathom the objective functions of ordinary Ateneans on campus?

This I got to see... How about the Leland dela Cruz utility function on apathy that AEA people used to joke about?

[Ali]

Originally posted by tesseract
Ali -- Tinatamaan? Asan? :)

Aside from those things you said we say (AMDG, We Believe, etc.), you forgot the new UAAP season slogan:

Got to believe.

Kidding aside.

victory -- If I were focusing on things that were of my immediate concern, I wouldn't even bother with this. But I am. And if you think you have a pretty good idea about my "immediate concerns," ask Ali. :) Ang lakas ng loob mong mag Got to believe. Sige ka. Madidiscover ka. :D

Oops. Too much information. :D

Sorry. I blame television. I watched part of the second episode of ABS-CBN's new telenovela this evening. It's actually almost decent, but I did feel my sentience dip slightly.

Oh. Did I just let more cats out of the bag? :D

Basta. Aral na!

And Oscar01: If anybody can fathom the objective functions of ordinary Atenean's on campus, it's our esteemed colleague victory. He'll do it over lunch. :D

[tesseract]

Originally posted by Ali
Ang lakas ng loob mong mag Got to believe. Sige ka. Madidiscover ka. :D

Oops. Too much information. :D

Sorry. I blame television. I watched part of the second episode of ABS-CBN's new telenovela this evening. It's actually almost decent, but I did feel my sentience dip slightly.

Oh. Did I just let more cats out of the bag? :D

Basta. Aral na!

And Oscar01: If anybody can fathom the objective functions of ordinary Atenean's on campus, it's our esteemed colleague victory. He'll do it over lunch. :D

Yes, over lunch. With Ali. And the Jedi. :D

Too much information? Huh? Was that for me? :D

Ali and telenovelas. Fascinating. Just like Seven of Nine (F A S C I N A T I N G), albeit in a much more twisted and absurd fashion.

[victory]

Ehh. Magkape na lang tayo when it comes to the whole topic of community development vis-a-vis apathy, how AdMU manages info dissemination and involving constituents, etc. We need to work on establishing common grounds.

Look at the parsimony of the simple model I outlined: With only three assumptions:

1. Rational (that is, utility maximizing -- I'm not even considering what's inside your utility function, whether it be pure self-interest or "altruism," "love of knowledge and hate of ignorance," etc.) players.
2. Lack of perfect information and a cost to being informed.
3. Public good nature of "community development in AdMU" -- that is, one cannot exclude present members of the AdMU community (whether they be tuition-paying students, alumni who have AdMU diplomas, etc.) from benefiting from the enhanced "prestige" of the institution.

... all the above conclusions can already be derived. Look at the power of the model, that is, its applicability to many other situations:

1. Why is it hard to mobilize large groups? Why must labor unions offer selective incentives, that is, incentives that can exclude non-members, or threaten non-union-members, and not function only via the benefit of "collective bargaining agreements"?
2. Why are voters on the average generally uninformed about policy issues? And then why are Danish voters, who operate under direct democracy, more informed than German voters, who function under representative government?
3. Why is it hard to get people involved in "good causes" like helping the environment?

Etc., etc.

Perhaps my definition of rationality is too simple for you. Wala akong pinapatamaan; I am only using names in this forum in hypothetical situations. Nor am I assuming anything about what you do in your private life, tesseract. That's your business. Or perhaps Ali's too, since you seem to keep on referring to the relationship between you two. The point is not that the model is too simplistic, and that the real world is more complex: That's obvious. The point is whether a simple model actually captures a lot of what's going on. Chunk in too many things in your model and you won't be able to get at any kind of relationship anyway.


posted by Ali

A radical disavowal of knowledge seems irrational to me. Total denial of responsibility is equally irrational.

But Ali, this depends on the type of knowledge, right? So Ali, you sort of know that there is a possibility of nuclear war between Pakistan and India, right? That hundreds of thousands may die? Or that places like South Africa and Botswana have up to about a third of their population as HIV-infected. Wow, daming mamamatay unless someone finds a cure for AIDS soon. Gosh, why aren't more people insured against catastrophic disasters like earthquakes? There's a huge amount of literature and projects to pursue regarding this. But should I expect that you are spending a good amount of your time gathering information about these "important issues," or are you staying up late at night reading and writing about the works of old or dead people for your graduate degree in philosophy?

So the kind of information/knowledge we often seek are the ones that are of interest to us, given (I shall use words from your field) "our own unique historicity." So perhaps info/knowledge about "what's going on" and "how to get involved" in AdMU hit "closer to home." OK. Introduce the public good aspect I noted above: You cannot exclude present members of the AdMU community from benefiting from your community development efforts. Maybe a larger proportion of your students do indeed pursue greater involvement as student leaders after taking your class (you need to verify this empirically): But what about the larger population of AdMU students, the other several thousands who did not have the benefit of taking your class?

Looks like they're hanging back and doing their own thing, content to benefit from the externalities of efforts of people like you, 'no?

But note that my own models of analysis stem from economics. And though there are insights to be gleaned from this field, it does not pretend to capture the entire reality of the world. Ali, in your post above, there's a subtle point you should have played upon: If indeed a larger proportion of your students do get more involved as student leaders, what does this imply? Your brand of Jesuit education, your concrete implementation of the cura personalis, is helping change what's inside the utility functions of otherwise rational, utility-maximizing individuals. You're teaching them to value community involvement, and not just pure self-interest. You're teaching them to value serving others -- perhaps to the point of depriving their own selves if you're not careful to point out that the "self" is an "other," too. You're teaching them to value not only utility but duty and responsibility, or perhaps derive utility from fulfilling duties and responsibilities. Things like "duty" and "responsibility" are absent from classical economic analysis, and it is both its strength and shortcoming. "Strength" because economics proposes solutions based on incentive-compatible mechanisms that do not assume anything "higher" in an individual other than their being "rational utility maximizers." "Shortcoming" because I personally believe that people are much more than this. Or at least I want to believe so.

Magkape na lang tayo. You see, we aren't on common ground if we can't talk econ -- M.E. is supposed to have a good number of econ subjects but whether the lessons are passed on effectively is perhaps another topic that should be included in this thread called "AdMU changes." Oscar01 always has nice things to say about economics in the Ateneo so perhaps he should start that one off. :)

[victory]

Yeah, new page! :)

[tesseract]

Originally posted by victory
Ehh. Magkape na lang tayo when it comes to the whole topic of community development vis-a-vis apathy, how AdMU manages info dissemination and involving constituents, etc. We need to work on establishing common grounds.

Look at the parsimony of the simple model I outlined: With only three assumptions:

1. Rational (that is, utility maximizing -- I'm not even considering what's inside your utility function, whether it be pure self-interest or "altruism," "love of knowledge and hate of ignorance," etc.) players.
2. Lack of perfect information and a cost to being informed.
3. Public good nature of "community development in AdMU" -- that is, one cannot exclude present members of the AdMU community (whether they be tuition-paying students, alumni who have AdMU diplomas, etc.) from benefiting from the enhanced "prestige" of the institution.

... all the above conclusions can already be derived. Look at the power of the model, that is, its applicability to many other situations:

1. Why is it hard to mobilize large groups? Why must labor unions offer selective incentives, that is, incentives that can exclude non-members, or threaten non-union-members, and not function only via the benefit of "collective bargaining agreements"?
2. Why are voters on the average generally uninformed about policy issues? And then why are Danish voters, who operate under direct democracy, more informed than German voters, who function under representative government?
3. Why is it hard to get people involved in "good causes" like helping the environment?

Etc., etc.

Perhaps my definition of rationality is too simple for you. Wala akong pinapatamaan; I am only using names in this forum in hypothetical situations. Nor am I assuming anything about what you do in your private life, tesseract. That's your business. Or perhaps Ali's too, since you seem to keep on referring to the relationship between you two. The point is not that the model is too simplistic, and that the real world is more complex: That's obvious. The point is whether a simple model actually captures a lot of what's going on. Chunk in too many things in your model and you won't be able to get at any kind of relationship anyway.



But Ali, this depends on the type of knowledge, right? So Ali, you sort of know that there is a possibility of nuclear war between Pakistan and India, right? That hundreds of thousands may die? Or that places like South Africa and Botswana have up to about a third of their population as HIV-infected. Wow, daming mamamatay unless someone finds a cure for AIDS soon. Gosh, why aren't more people insured against catastrophic disasters like earthquakes? There's a huge amount of literature and projects to pursue regarding this. But should I expect that you are spending a good amount of your time gathering information about these "important issues," or are you staying up late at night reading and writing about the works of old or dead people for your graduate degree in philosophy?

So the kind of information/knowledge we often seek are the ones that are of interest to us, given (I shall use words from your field) "our own unique historicity." So perhaps info/knowledge about "what's going on" and "how to get involved" in AdMU hit "closer to home." OK. Introduce the public good aspect I noted above: You cannot exclude present members of the AdMU community from benefiting from your community development efforts. Maybe a larger proportion of your students do indeed pursue greater involvement as student leaders after taking your class (you need to verify this empirically): But what about the larger population of AdMU students, the other several thousands who did not have the benefit of taking your class?

Looks like they're hanging back and doing their own thing, content to benefit from the externalities of efforts of people like you, 'no?

But note that my own models of analysis stem from economics. And though there are insights to be gleaned from this field, it does not pretend to capture the entire reality of the world. Ali, in your post above, there's a subtle point you should have played upon: If indeed a larger proportion of your students do get more involved as student leaders, what does this imply? Your brand of Jesuit education, your concrete implementation of the cura personalis, is helping change what's inside the utility functions of otherwise rational, utility-maximizing individuals. You're teaching them to value community involvement, and not just pure self-interest. You're teaching them to value serving others -- perhaps to the point of depriving their own selves if you're not careful to point out that the "self" is an "other," too. You're teaching them to value not only utility but duty and responsibility, or perhaps derive utility from fulfilling duties and responsibilities. Things like "duty" and "responsibility" are absent from classical economic analysis, and it is both its strength and shortcoming. "Strength" because economics proposes solutions based on incentive-compatible mechanisms that do not assume anything "higher" in an individual other than their being "rational utility maximizers." "Shortcoming" because I personally believe that people are much more than this. Or at least I want to believe so.

Magkape na lang tayo. You see, we aren't on common ground if we can't talk econ -- M.E. is supposed to have a good number of econ subjects but whether the lessons are passed on effectively is perhaps another topic that should be included in this thread called "AdMU changes." Oscar01 always has nice things to say about economics in the Ateneo so perhaps he should start that one off. :)

Kape. Masarap. Nerbyos, nilaga, at nilasap. :)

[victory]

posted by Ali

And Oscar01: If anybody can fathom the objective functions of ordinary Atenean's on campus, it's our esteemed colleague victory. He'll do it over lunch.

Basta libre nyo. You know me. Max benefits, min costs. Rational utility maximizer.

[tesseract]

Originally posted by victory


Basta libre nyo. You know me. Max benefits, min costs. Rational utility maximizer.

For someone who earlier cited knowing more about OR than anyone can offer me, this is quite pragmatic. :)

[Ali]

Nor am I assuming anything about what you do in your private life, tesseract. That's your business. Or perhaps Ali's too, since you seem to keep on referring to the relationship between you two.tesseract's supposedly my second coming.

Can I make a confession, whenever victory makes such long, hard posts like that, I feel somewhat inadequate.

Mwahahahaha! :rotfl:

Anyway, at the back of my mind, I was thinking of the Habermas, Levinas, and Scheler (or more pointedly: a caricature of their various critiques of the social sciences) when I was concocting my concept of rationality and replying. It's no wonder our discussion's scattering all over the place.

Sorry. My relationship with tesseract has affected my mind.

Now, I'm tempted to use some blanket philosophical construct to tell all of you that you're all right, but that I'm more correct because I've got game and Father Roque taught me to jump.

Sige, kape tayo. Libre ko kayo kahit naghihikahos ako. Kasi naman, tulad nga ng sabi ni victory, selfless ako. Mwahahahaha.

(victory, you have plans of coming home anytime soon? Otherwise, medyo mahal ang pamasahe papunta diyan eh.)

Why do I have the feeling that we're conducting this discussion like some kind of show?

You lurkers! Join in! What do you think?

[rabbaddal]

I have to agree with Ali about the need to get everyone more informed about what’s going on. Part of a school’s effort to nurture its relationships with students and alumni is to keep its students and alumni informed. B-schools constantly hold “dean’s forums” where the dean and the students hold an open forum and exchange ideas about how to improve the program and the students are constantly updated on the developments happening in the school. During these events, the dean and the faculty are open to all sorts of constructive criticism from the student body regardless of how much “dirty work” the students have done for the school so far. Similar events are held for alumni. As a result of such efforts, these schools have been able to generate substantial contributions from its alumni, excluding some good ideas that come out of these events in the first place. In Harvard, 46% of alumni give back to the school. In Columbia, it’s lower – 20%.

These numbers tell you some things. First of all, it tells us that there are those among the students and alumni who will help out. But more than that, they also tell you that:

1. Even if you do get people informed, majority of those you reach out to won’t help, just like the 54% of Harvard alumni.

2. But if you don’t get people informed, you won’t get that 46% who will give back.

That is what Ali was driving at. Whether you like them or not, you will have to deal with those free loaders who will reap the benefits of other people’s hard work, but only by reaching out to everyone – including the free loaders will you be able to solicit help from the sincere. What’s disconcerting is that Ateneo seems to be relying on the contribution of a few well-off contributors – Mr. Pangilinan, the Lopezes, the Escalers, and now Mr. Gokongwei. What happens if one of them gets into financial trouble? On the other hand, by spreading the contribution base to a wider group, the school could rely on a steadier source of funding for its programs.

Once we’ve settled on the rightfulness of getting students and alumni informed, the only other issue is cost. You are right. There is a cost to holding such activities. Yet, as Ali pointed out, there is also a cost to squander good opportunities. I wasn’t in the last ME grand reunion so I can’t give my opinion on what happened. But I did attend a mini alumni gathering 2 years ago, and some of your Wharton friends were there. During the question and answer portion, some of the more senior alumni were asking Dr. Ruiz and the faculty questions about what the plans of the ME department were to innovate the program. They were also giving suggestions on how the program could be improved. The whole time none of the faculty could give a straight answer to the concerns that were raised, except to say that things take time to implement. As a result, many alumni left the event frustrated. Just like this year’s reunion, there was a cost to hold that event, and the opportunity was squandered.

If additional cost is such a big issue, then why not make the most of what the school has? Why not use existing events as effective platforms to rally willing students and alumni around the school’s cause? Why not organize the existing informal network into an effective resource? Why not try to identify opportunities where the school will have everything to gain but nothing to lose?
I really think there’s a big goldmine out there that has yet to be tapped simply because Ateneo as a university is still caught up in its old ways.

[Bluest]

OFF-TOPIC

Sorry to interrupt your high-level intellectual discussion..........

The issue is not just money. It also involves school culture, school organizational structures, mission, vision, etc. It may help if school administrators, school deans, and department heads would take some business/economics courses. Perhaps, it's time to bring in outsiders and laymen to run the school. Would that be possible in a Jesuit institution? (I doubt it.)

Too many academics running universities can lead to paralysis, too much inertia, and backwardness in some instances. Too much time is being devoted to studying this and that, analyzing this and that and theorizing with what ifs...... and not much time for pragmatism, implementation, and execution.

People can debate all they want. The world will keep on evolving no matter what and leave their sorry institutions behind in the dark ages.

We need to inject new blood and to be able to think out of the box. Even the venerable Harvard is trying to reinvent itself. (Refer to one of the more recent issues of BusinessWeek.)Otherwise, we may follow the fate of the dinosaurs.

We can all analyze a problem to death. Action, and not endless discussions, is what is needed.

I'm done with my "testicle monologues."

NOW>> Back to the topic.... sorry for interrupting.

[victory]

posted by rabbaddal

I have to agree with Ali about the need to get everyone more informed about what’s going on.

Oh, but I agree with everything that Ali has been wanting to do, and I commend him for all that he's tried to do! I think I've tried to do my own share of everything, too. But I've never touched on the "should's" at all. Was just trying to shed a little light on the "why's" of the "is's." If we decide that the "is's" turn out to be "ought not's," then we can refer back to our model and "tweak" the variables that might bring the "is" closer to the "ought," diba?

Oh, if you only knew the full extent of the "tweaking" we've already tried to do... 'no, Ithacxa?

On the other hand, Ali, your last post is replete with innuendos that would make some administrators in AdMU blush:


posted by Ali

tesseract's supposedly my second coming.

Can I make a confession, whenever victory makes such long, hard posts like that, I feel somewhat inadequate.

Sorry. My relationship with tesseract has affected my mind.


Was it a reaction to this earlier post by tesseract?...


posted by tesseract

Masarap. Nerbyos, nilaga, at nilasap.

If this is the kind of "community involvement" and "alumni interaction" you prefer, I think I'll pass (not "free ride" -- lest you misinterpret me). I'll leave you two to your "tweaking."

:rotfl:

Uy, joke lang. Huwag mapipikon. May sense of humor din naman ako... :)

[victory]

posted by Bluest

We can all analyze a problem to death. Action, and not endless discussions, is what is needed.

Agree completely, Bluest. Although a healthy (but goal- and deadline-driven) discussion should precede any kind of action, don't you think? Especially when it comes to decisions that involve student life and education, alumni donations, etc., the (often unintended) results of which might haunt you many years down the road?

Off-topic, Bluest: I get confused reading your posts sometimes, especially when you share a little bit about your background. In one post (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1364841#post1364841) you wrote that you graduated more than 5 years ago from AdMU (M.E. Cum Laude) and now do work for an investment bank in the US. In another post (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2163958#post2163958) you wrote that you were an incoming (current?) freshman from I.S. taking up Chem/CE. And in yet another post (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2358214#post2358214) you wrote that you're an incoming (current?) freshman from Brent who's always dreamed of studying in AdMU. Or did you come from Xavier High School, as you wrote in this other post (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1334231#post1334231)?

...?

[marseilles]

Quick comments. (After quickly browsing the last two pages of the thread.)

A research center? It would be nice to have a building for researchers. It would be nice to have some form of restructuring to encourage research linkages among faculty. But the number one resource that scholars really need for research is time. Deload the faculty further; give us lighter teaching loads (with the same pay, of course! :) ). That's how you encourage scholars to produce research.

With regard to Ali and victory's exchange. I haven't read your posts very closely, but I'm a bit bothered with the purely economic model that victory has used to describe the university. Certainly, it is a valid model, and one valid way of looking at a university. However, the model (as with all models) is, of course, incomplete (as victory admitted). And one particular aspect of the university that an economic model fails to include that the fact that a liberal arts education, by its very nature, cannot be subjected to the utilitarian standards of economics. A liberal arts education, by its very definition, is free from such utilitarian categories and functional ends. The moment you forget this, you are forgetting what a liberal arts education means!!! And if we presume anything else--if we see our students more as clientele than co-scholars, if we see the education that we provide our students as products rather than free knowledge--then we are destroying the liberal arts nature of the Ateneo.

victory's comment to Ali, then, that as a teacher, he is helping his students see beyond utilitarian driven incentives, can never be merely an addendum to the discussion. It is not, then: "The university is a utilitarian model ... oh, and aside from that, we also teach duty and responsibility." Rather, the fact of exposing students to a realm of knowledge beyond any utilitarian constructs is in fact at the core of a liberal arts education! A liberal arts education is not merely seeking to make "otherwise rational, utility-maximizing individuals" have a tiny glimpse of what it means to engage in activity for any other reason. That would presume that people are primarily and essentially utility-maximizing individuals. Rather, a liberal arts education presupposes that what makes a human human is his very capacity to transcend such functional categories, and this is precisely the area of humanity where the liberal arts is situated. It all goes back to Plato, going out of the cave.

At any rate, with regard to the comments that Ateneo doesn't seem to be doing anything about anything ... might it be possible that a lot of the members of the university simply aren't aware of what is being done? The university from the student's perspective is very different from the university from the faculty member's or the administrator's perspective. Most people don't bother to find out what goes on in the Board of Trustees' meetings, or the University School Fora, or the "Magtanong sa Dekano/VP" fora (yes, we do have dean-student fora), or even the college Sanggu meetings, for that matter. Assuming that this means that "nothing is being done" is rather unfair, I think.

With regard to Mikoid's post about the trash problem. I wholeheartedly agree! And have talked to a Sanggu member about it. It's awful!!!!!

[marseilles]

BTW, if you young Ateneo alumni are complaining that the Ateneo is changing now ... imagine how Doc Reyes must feel. :)

[victory]

posted by marseilles

With regard to Ali and victory's exchange. I haven't read your posts very closely, but I'm a bit bothered with the purely economic model that victory has used to describe the university. Certainly, it is a valid model, and one valid way of looking at a university. However, the model (as with all models) is, of course, incomplete (as victory admitted). And one particular aspect of the university that an economic model fails to include that the fact that a liberal arts education, by its very nature, cannot be subjected to the utilitarian standards of economics. A liberal arts education, by its very definition, is free from such utilitarian categories and functional ends. The moment you forget this, you are forgetting what a liberal arts education means!!! And if we presume anything else--if we see our students more as clientele than co-scholars, if we see the education that we provide our students as products rather than free knowledge--then we are destroying the liberal arts nature of the Ateneo.


Of course the model is incomplete, marseilles. Your entire post dwells on the normative -- "what Ateneo liberal arts education ought to be." I was just trying to shed light on some of the operative forces that perhaps mitigate against achieving these ideals.

If you read my post about Ali's teaching carefully, you'll realize that "the value of liberal arts education" was precisely what I was trying to point out. But to say that liberal arts education and its operationalization in the real world is "free from such utilitarian categories and functional ends" and "cannot be subjected to utilitarian standards of economics"? You contradict yourself in your very first paragraph:


posted by marseilles

Deload the faculty further; give us lighter teaching loads (with the same pay, of course! :)).


I don't know how other people might interpret this statement, but to my simple mind it sounded like you -- a liberal arts educator! -- were trying to maximize benefits and minimize costs.

The institution itself should stand for something higher, to be sure. I was not subjecting Ateneo's fairly lofty goals of liberal arts education to "utilitarian standards" and recommending any kind of changes to "make things more realistic or practical" -- if you thought I was doing so, go back and read through the posts more closely. All I was trying to point out was that in the process of achieving Ateneo's ideals of helping its students become "truly human" (which in itself can come across as paternalistic and condescending if you ask an outsider, don't you think?), there are forces at work that might curtail you from your lofty goals, that might cause you to trip up, that might leave you ranting in frustration because people are not as involved as they ought to be (according to your standards, at least), yada yada etc. etc. And that you need to think about these forces in order to implement programs effectively -- programs that will move you closer to your "ideals of liberal arts education."

Economic models, except perhaps the earlier ones by Smith, Ricardo and Marx, never claim to tell the whole story about things. Its goals are not as grand or sweeping as metaphysics. It never claims to capture everything about what makes a human being tick. But the moment you ignore economic realities and say that "to be truly human we must transcend these things" you run the risk of having students think that transcendence means to no longer consider important: "Give your life to others and don't worry about making money." "Serve the Ateneo and follow your vocation and don't be too concerned about proactively managing your personal and professional career -- that's selfish!" Does your definition of transcendence mean "to leave behind"? Or does it mean coming to terms with the completeness of your humanity -- the physical, economic, mental, spiritual, and still-mysterious-and-unexplained -- and the needs and dreams of both self and O/other?

May kailangang lampasan para magpakatao, pero para lampasan kailangang daanan. Ang ibig bang sabihin ng "lampasan" ay "iwanan" at "hindi na pagkaabalahan"?

;)

[marseilles]

Originally posted by victory
Your entire post dwells on the normative -- "what Ateneo liberal arts education ought to be." I was just trying to shed light on some of the operative forces that perhaps mitigate against achieving these ideals.
First, a clarification. I agree that the post is normative with regard to describing what an Ateneo education ought to be. But I would just like to clarify that I am not saying that this is what a liberal education in general "ought" to be, because the description I gave was what liberal arts is, by definition.

If you read my post about Ali's teaching carefully, you'll realize that "the value of liberal arts education" was precisely what I was trying to point out. But to say that liberal arts education and its operationalization in the real world is "free from such utilitarian categories and functional ends" and "cannot be subjected to utilitarian standards of economics"?
Once again we have to clarify terms. I said that liberal arts cannot be subjected to utilitarian standards of economics. The word "subject" means to stand under. What my statement meant, then, was two things: (1) first, that the standards of economics cannot be perceived to be more important or more valuable than any utilitarian end; and (2) second, that the liberal arts themselves are "liberated" (hence, the term "liberal arts") from the standards of economic necessity. Hence the value of these arts lie in themselves, and are not determined by their utility or necessity.

The institution itself should stand for something higher, to be sure. I was not subjecting Ateneo's fairly lofty goals of liberal arts education to "utilitarian standards" and recommending any kind of changes to "make things more realistic or practical" -- if you thought I was doing so, go back and read through the posts more closely.
Don't worry, that's not what I presumed your intent to be. :)

All I was trying to point out was that . . . there are forces at work that might curtail you from your lofty goals, that might cause you to trip up, that might leave you ranting in frustration ... yada yada etc. etc. And that you need to think about these forces in order to implement programs effectively -- programs that will move you closer to your "ideals of liberal arts education."
And certainly, I do agree.

A word about your parenthetical remarks ...

All I was trying to point out was that . . . there are forces at work that might curtail you from your lofty goals ... because people are not as involved as they ought to be (according to your standards, at least) ....
I myself didn't make any mention of people's involvement, etc., nor my standards for such involvement .... I believe you're talking about someone else's post here.

in the process of achieving Ateneo's ideals of helping its students become "truly human" (which in itself can come across as paternalistic and condescending if you ask an outsider, don't you think?)
Nor did I make any mention of this ... which, of course, is a completely different topic ....

Economic models, except perhaps the earlier ones by Smith, Ricardo and Marx, never claim to tell the whole story about things. Its goals are not as grand or sweeping as metaphysics.
I agree, and I did mention that you agree with me on this point also.

But the moment you ignore economic realities and say that "to be truly human we must transcend these things" you run the risk of having students think that transcendence means to no longer consider important: "Give your life to others and don't worry about making money." "Serve the Ateneo and follow your vocation and don't be too concerned about proactively managing your personal and professional career -- that's selfish!" Does your definition of transcendence mean "to leave behind"? Or does it mean coming to terms with the completeness of your humanity -- the physical, economic, mental, spiritual, and still-mysterious-and-unexplained -- and the needs and dreams of both self and O/other?
Actually, I must ask you what your definitions of "transcendence" are. At no point have I ever said, nor will ever say, that transcendence implies a complete and eternal "stepping out" of the world of necessity. To presume that would be silly: one needs to eat in order to "philosophize." In PH 101 terms, you might say, "We are embodied spirits, and we live both as body--and hence have biological necessities--and as spirit--and hence have the capacity to transcend. And both these realms are incorporated." And if any student graduates from the Ateneo thinking that humans are merely spirits, and not bodies, then his/her theology and philosophy teachers most certainly have failed to do their job. Once again, these words that you typed out here about the "message" that some anonymous teachers are allegedly giving their students certainly are not mine, nor are they (as far as I know) the words that any faculty member I know uses.

My point, rather, was that one may fail to clearly see the goals of education if one begins with an economic model, because an economic model automatically discards these "higher ideals" (your words) and looks at the situation from the lens of the useful and necessary.

The presumption that you arrived at: that students, alumni, faculty, and everyone else isn't involved because people are utility-maximizing beings and they don't see the utility in what they are doing, might have a point, but it may also fail to describe the whole picture.

If you ask faculty members, for example, what will make them do more research (and that question has been brought up at meetings), it isn't incentives that they want. For most of them, the research in itself is sufficient incentive. Scholars want to do research, because they are, ummm, "liberal artists," and they see the value in doing research. All they want is time[i]. That's the point I'm driving at.

Likewise, you are presuming that [i]all students think the same way, too, in terms of cost-benefit. All I'm saying is: Might it be possible that such a presumption is faulty to begin with?

I have more to say, but I have to rush off to class right now. Will continue later.

[Ali]

Originally posted by victory

On the other hand, Ali, your last post is replete with innuendos that would make some administrators in AdMU blush:

If this is the kind of "community involvement" and "alumni interaction" you prefer, I think I'll pass (not "free ride" -- lest you misinterpret me). I'll leave you two to your "tweaking."

:rotfl:

Uy, joke lang. Huwag mapipikon. May sense of humor din naman ako... :) :laugh:

Mwahahahaha!

:grinroll:

Mwahahahaha!

:bounce:

Mwahahahaha!

:bounce2:

Mwahahahaha!

Oh. Sorry about that. I couldn't help it.

:hiya:

[victory]

posted by marseilles

If you ask faculty members, for example, what will make them do more research (and that question has been brought up at meetings), it isn't incentives that they want. For most of them, the research in itself is sufficient incentive. Scholars want to do research, because they are, ummm, "liberal artists," and they see the value in doing research. All they want is time. That's the point I'm driving at.

I have more to say, but I have to rush off to class right now. Will continue later.

Oh, but don't you see the role that incentives play in how people allocate their limited time? ;)

Case in point: Why do you have to "rush off to class"? Why is Ali slaving away at his graduate studies right now? How come you younger ones actually take/make progress/finish your master's degree within about 3 years of the start of your teaching stint in AdMU? How come we no longer, or rarely, see the phenomenon of someone remaining an "Assistant Instructor" for 10 years or more? Could it be because during Achoot's time as Acting Dean she actually enforced the standard of having people take their masters within x number of years more assiduously? She's pretty good with science but as far as I can tell she isn't able to warp time just yet. So by enforcing stronger incentives (a "stick" more so than a carrot, I believe -- what happens to you if you don't make "significant progress towards your masters degree"?) younger faculty have reallocated how they spend their time, 'no?

Or left AdMU altogether.

Likewise, you are presuming that all students think the same way, too, in terms of cost-benefit. All I'm saying is: Might it be possible that such a presumption is faulty to begin with?

Oh, not everyone. Ali does not (he's selfless!). You probably don't. And I'm sure all the "free riders" out there are happy that you aren't thinking in these terms. "Wow, ang galing ni Ma'am. Following and living out her vocation. Wow, ang noble ni Sir. Grabe, teaching is such a good job." Compliments are a fairly "low (or no?) cost" way to "contribute to AdMU's noble teachers," to "thank them for the public good they generate." But tell me: Of the students whose "lives have been touched by Ateneo's brand of liberal education," who have at one point said "I'd love to teach, grabe. One day, after I graduate, I will do so..." -- what do the vast majority end up doing? Check the Placement Office.

Why don't they end up teaching if preferences are no longer the question (they did say that they would "love to teach," after all)? Or what played a part in why several young people ended up leaving teaching in AdMU? A promising young philo teacher got married, for example. Last I heard he was working for a (gasp!) profit-oriented company somewhere in Libis.

Couldn't be cost/benefit, could it? ;)

My point, rather, was that one may fail to clearly see the goals of education if one begins with an economic model, because an economic model automatically discards these "higher ideals" (your words) and looks at the situation from the lens of the useful and necessary.

Agree completely. Didn't use an economic model to describe the goals of an educational system, though. Only to illustrate some of the forces operative in social interactions. Cuts across institutions actually. Fairly powerful model. ;)

Also, be careful about your sweeping definition of "the goals of education," marseilles. You mean "liberal arts education," don't you? Might you need to use different "lens" for professional, technical or vocational education? "Artes liberales" versus "artes serviles," 'no?

Ay, AdMU education nga pala ito, so "artes serviles" housed under AdMU also needs to be held to other standards. ;)

Hirap talaga ng online forum din. Can't exchange thoughts as fast as one would like. Would have loved to talk with you on a more macro-scale about your thoughts on statements like "one reason why former Spanish colonies, often with Catholic backgrounds, remain poor because their elite universities offer courses that focus more on religion, the afterlife, or 'humanistic' professions and not enough on churning out productive workers."

E-mail doesn't work as good, either, 'no? Oh, how I wish for more time for you indeed.

Usap na lang tayo pagbalik ko sa 'Pinas, o pag dumalaw ka dito sa 'Tate. BTW, Sleepless6 is in town, that "sell-out of a poet/writer." You may want to catch him for lunch or something. ;)

[Ithacxa]

Here I go again apologizing (in the Greek sense) for teachers. Forgive me if I start sounding toxic.

"If you ask faculty members, for example, what will make them do more research (and that question has been brought up at meetings), it isn't incentives that they want. For most of them, the research in itself is sufficient incentive. Scholars want to do research, because they are, ummm, "liberal artists," and they see the value in doing research. All they want is time. That's the point I'm driving at. "

I don't want to take the abovementioned statement out of context. In fact, I really understand how we all need to be driven by some higher goal, ideal and principle to animate our actions, and these may be beyond the scope of economics to explain. But at the same time, we need to have our feet firmly on the ground and see the reality for what it really is, and I think economics does a good job in making us see things differently.

Yes, we teachers are driven to teach well and serve in countless school commitees, etc, etc, etc. (trust me - it can get very overbearing!) and to research, because we love the students, the institution, and the idea that our research can and will have a positive impact on the lives of other people. In fact, I can speak with great authority when I say that many of the younger faculty members in our School (the one with the new building), driven by these ideals, have CHOSEN to stay in the Ateneo despite all the reasons not to. A co-teacher/good friend of mine left a high paying job in the banking sector to teach in Ateneo because she loves it. I myself left a job for which I was paid s**tloads of money then. There are so many more of us who have these same stories to tell.

But please remember: we aren't supermen and women. Man may not live on bread alone, but bread is still important. Otherwise, we starve. Especially in our school where the trade-off to work in the Corporate sector is immense, the financial incentives to teach, research and do outreach and community service are very necessary. How many of us have really wanted to stay in the Ateneo but have been "forced out" because of the sad state of things? We are not greedy, selfish, no-good, unscrupulous individuals looking out only for our own interests. We want to have enough money to feed ourselves and our loved ones, and to provide for all our other future needs. Is that bad?

Let the one who is without sin cast the first stone.

[Bluest]

OFF-TOPIC

Originally posted by victory
Off-topic, Bluest: I get confused reading your posts sometimes, especially when you share a little bit about your background. In one post (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1364841#post1364841) you wrote that you graduated more than 5 years ago from AdMU (M.E. Cum Laude) and now do work for an investment bank in the US. In another post (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2163958#post2163958) you wrote that you were an incoming (current?) freshman from I.S. taking up Chem/CE. And in yet another post (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2358214#post2358214) you wrote that you're an incoming (current?) freshman from Brent who's always dreamed of studying in AdMU. Or did you come from Xavier High School, as you wrote in this other post (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1334231#post1334231)?

...?

The confusion was the intended consequence of my actions. My true identity lies somewhere in the paragraph above.

That's one of the great things about PEx, one can assume any "personality" or "identity" under the same or multiple alternicks. I am not fond of re-registering, that's why I chose to have multiple identities under the same handle.

Confusion >>> Anonymity

....?

Carry on with your interesting discussion

[marseilles]

Originally posted by victory
Oh, but don't you see the role that incentives play in how people allocate their limited time?
You completely miss my point, victory. You seem to think I am fundamentally disagreeing with your use of economics to analyze the situation, and you are unnecessarily emphasizing arguments that I already agree with. (If I'm not mistaken, I think that fallacy is called the straw man. Is that right, Ali?)

I'm not saying that an economic model has no place in understanding the dynamics of a university. I emphasized that it does. I said that it is valuable.

I'm merely reitirating that it isn't a sufficient model, and trying to open the discussion to other possible ways of understanding the situation.

How do our opinions differ? You yourself said that that the model wasn't sufficient; however, the way you described its insufficiency was as an addendum, almost as if to say: "A university is driven mainly by cost-benefit and utilitarian-maximization ... oh, and sometimes it's also driven by 'higher ideals' (your words) than those."

What I'm saying, instead, is that maybe (just maybe) it might be more accurate to say: "A university is driven by 'higher ideals' (your words again) ... but it is also limited by economic factors."

A question of emphasis.

Why do I think that this is an important distinction? Well, for one, I believe that in a liberal arts university, it is important to continue a culture of learning for learning's sake. If students leave such a university, for example, thinking that education is merely professional training and nothing else, than they are missing the whole point of having a liberal education. However, to create that culture, we must consider, but at the same time go beyond an economic understanding of education. Hence: the economic understanding of education (as servile education) is valuable, but unless we also say that it is not all that education is, we are failing at educating our students liberally.

I hope you, victory--and you too, Ithacxa--recognize that I'm not denying the value of an economic understanding of the dynamics of our university. I'm merely emphasizing a point which I think both of you agree with: that while such an understanding is certainly helpful, it is also incomplete. Education--a liberal education, that is--is not merely a consumer product. I paraphrase what Bluest said above: "It's not just about money; it's also about culture."

I emphasize this also for another reason: and that is, that such a concept--the idea of being educated liberally--is, for most students I have encountered, a completely alien notion. For most of them, education is merely an economic resource, and nothing beyond that.

I do not know why the liberal flavor of education has been diminished at the Ateneo. But I have a guess, although I have no empirical facts to back up my guess. I'm wondering whether it might be possible that the community of scholars that they collaborate with--that is, the faculty of the schools--has also, to a certain extent, forgotten that the meaning of "liberal education" is "education freed from necessity."

I hope now my point has been clarified.

======

An aside, though. I find it interesting to hear Ithacxa and victory mention so often "the lure of the corporate world." In all honesty, I have to admit, I rarely hear cases such as those in the school that I am teaching in. Most of the teachers I talk to on a daily basis are firm in their conviction that what they are doing is a personal vocation--a vocation that may not be for everyone, but which they have identified as their own. Many of them have never dreamed of doing anything else What usually does lure teachers away from our departments is the desire to do something else, instead of teaching, rather than the "lure of the corporate world." Why am I mentioning this? I'm not trying to be superior here; I'm merely trying to emphasize that not all teachers "feel the lure of the corporate world" to the same extent that some do. I'm merely trying to emphasize that these phenomena that you describe here may not be universal phenomena.

But then again, maybe the reason why the "lure of the corporate world" is because we don't have any skills (nor any interest) in the kind of jobs that you can get in the corporate world. :lol:

Nevertheless:
Originally posted by Ithacxa
We are not greedy, selfish, no-good, unscrupulous individuals looking out only for our own interests. We want to have enough money to feed ourselves and our loved ones, and to provide for all our other future needs. Is that bad?
Of course it isn't bad. And what I find curious is why you would come to the conclusion that anyone might think it is. Where exactly has such an idea arisen?

Put plainly: Who is saying that the "corporate world" is bad? Speaking once again of the teachers I just mentioned: I don't think any of them think the corporate world is bad; they just don't think it's for them because there's nothing in the corporate world that they would enjoy doing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I often get the feeling that it isn't the humanities that are saying that the "corporate world" is bad, but very often, it seems that it is the people in the corporate world who arrive at that conclusion themselves. You called your post an "apology" (a defense). My question is: who, exactly, are you defending yourself against?

=====

At any rate: I never meant to start an "economics vs. humanities" debate here. I merely wanted to open the discussion to other possible ways of looking at the situation. Sadly, though, it seems that nobody wants to explore any alternative direction in this discussion.

Oh well. I agree, magkape na lang tayong lahat.

[victory]

Starbucks? :)

[Ali]

I don't know why we're all here arguing about things we actually agree about in the first place when we can all be bashing La Salle.

Mwahahahaha! :bounce2:

Group hug! Group hug! :bounce:

Anyway, I really think that the 'arguments' we're having on this thread are really just accidental (in the metaphysical sense) rather than substantial. It's really just a matter of expression and focus rather than any basic disagreement. And I don't know about the rest of you, but I think it's fun.

That aside, anybody for a SOH vs. SOM slugfest? Philo against the world na lang kaya?

I really should get out more often. The computer's addling my brain...

Starbucks? :)

[muchomuchacho]

Originally posted by Ithacxa

Let the one who is without sin cast the first stone.

You have a point in your first three paragraphs. However, you seem to have un-done yourself with your last line. What exactly are you driving at?

[marseilles]

BTW, victory, Sleepless06 and I did meet up, last weekend. Together with Mikoid and a few other friends. He seems very happy. :D

Paano tayo magsa-Starbucks? Ali and I can meet up in Starbucks here ... victory can have coffee at a Starbucks somewhere in Pennsylvania at the appointed time .... Ah, the "joys" of globalization! :lol:

[Ithacxa]

1. "I hope you, victory--and you too, Ithacxa--recognize that I'm not denying the value of an economic understanding of the dynamics of our university. I'm merely emphasizing a point which I think both of you agree with: that while such an understanding is certainly helpful, it is also incomplete. Education--a liberal education, that is--is not merely a consumer product. I paraphrase what Bluest said above: "It's not just about money; it's also about culture."

Let me mention again what I posted earlier: "....... I really understand how we all need to be driven by some higher goal, ideal and principle to animate our actions, and these may be beyond the scope of economics to explain.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, we need to have our feet firmly on the ground and see the reality for what it really is, and I think economics does a good job in making us see things differently."

Actually, marseilles, I don't think we have any difference of opinion. I just merely added my own caveat about needing to be realistic about things.

2. "You have a point in your first three paragraphs. However, you seem to have un-done yourself with your last line. What exactly are you driving at?"

Economics can explain, even if only partially, the way people behave and act. In our School's case, many of the ones who want to teach do not ending up teaching because it is not economical to pursue such a path. Conversely, those who do decide to stay stay despite such economic adversities.

I may have put the cart before the horse when I suddenly went berserk about how we in the SOM should not be judged evil when we decide to leave teaching for what seems to be a very selfish purpose. But I thought it best to provide whoever gets to read this thread with a paradigm from which my colleagues and I are coming. It's best that people know our mindsets so that they can understand better how we make our decisions, which I gather, isn't exactly the same as that of the other schools.

3. "Correct me if I'm wrong, but I often get the feeling that it isn't the humanities that are saying that the "corporate world" is bad, but very often, it seems that it is the people in the corporate world who arrive at that conclusion themselves. "

Philosophy 104 did a good job showing me what I considered was the win-win solution to many conflicts in life. Theology however did not. I remember my Theology 141 professor ranting about how having money eventually led all of us to become greedy and selfish. (Initials CP, not in Ateneo anymore) And just last week, a student of mine came up to me and told me that his theology 141 told his class pretty much the exact same thing. I don't know if I or my student misunderstood the lessons back then, but something this sensitive and crucial needs to be discussed very carefully by the Theology faculty, because many of the students I come in contact with (SOM Students) don't have a clear idea about how this question can be answered. Because of this, when they do get to work in the Corporate world, their confusion compounds more and more, when in the first place, it should not have been there.

On a lighter note, the weather here in Manila's been very nice for coffee. The rains have made things much cooler than normal.

[tesseract]

Kape. Giniling. Sinabuyan ng init, tubig, at pag-ibig, hanggang magkaroon ng kabuuang ang dila lang ang nakahuhuli.

Weh.

Coffee? In starbucks? Globally?
Fascinating. And I thought chat was global.

[victory]

posted by marseilles

Paano tayo magsa-Starbucks? Ali and I can meet up in Starbucks here ... victory can have coffee at a Starbucks somewhere in Pennsylvania at the appointed time .... Ah, the "joys" of globalization!

Puwede. Pero corny. Pag-uwi na lang namin o pagbisita ninyo dito. :)

And then we can have long talks about education, my fairly strong views about this thing called "culture" (what is it exactly? where is it from? if desired or required, how does one "change" it?), and why matters pertaining to money are but a small subset of economics.

I'd love to hear about your grad studies, your teaching... and of course, your lovelife. Are you as "seemingly happy" as Sleepless6? ;)

"Naughty businessperson and economist" that I am, I'll leave you with two little tidbits for you to think about:

1. Different preferences - but underlying subsidies? Your note about different preferences across schools: You were thinking more like an economist in that last paragraph of yours than you've ever done in previous posts I've seen (not sure how this comes across to you, though! :)). In past threads I've been careful enough to specify that "the lure of the corporate world" may perhaps be most applicable and relevant only to SOM faculty (Ithacxa noted this too); by dint of preference ("this is what we like to do; we're not really attracted to working in the corporate world") and perhaps lack of choice (your last sentence), there's less of a "pressure" for SOH faculty to consider "options out there" for financial reasons.

Please don't take offense in this next comment: This is not a personal attack, just part of thinking aloud, OK? Phrased technically: "How many philo and theo faculty internalize all their costs?" In popular terms: How many... a) are not part of a religious order that subsidizes or supports their financial needs; b) no longer live with their parents and actually pay rent or mortgage on property that they themselves leased or purchased (i.e., did not receive as a, say, "wedding gift"); c) use only their base salary, research funding, or professorial chair proceeds for their livelihood and personal spending -- and not any other form of part-time work outside AdMU, or support from parents, relatives, friends, etc.; d) are not dependent on a spouse that works outside AdMU, i.e., they bring in at least half the family income and/or would be able to support themselves and "their half of the family expenses;" and e) have children to raise, perhaps female (whose studies can't be subsidized in Ateneo GS and HS) or whose "best option for College studies" lies not in AdMU but in another University, perhaps in the US?

For the philo and theo faculty member who can say "all of the above" to items (a) through (e), bravo! Sobrang bow ako. But if even one item cannot be held "completely true"... could it be that the reason why "artes liberales" scholars can 'afford' their lifestyle is because somebody else is subsidizing them? Or that they chose a "simpler" lifestyle altogether?

But then even for the "simpler" lifestyle option, let me pose this hypothetical situation: You and Mikoid get married (uuyyy!!!) and decide to follow your "true vocation," which is to teach in AdMU (kayong dalawa ito, ha -- let's pretend Mikoid fell in love with his MA in Communications program and decided that academia was the path for him). Being fiercely independent and not preferring to depend on your parents, you refuse lavish wedding gifts and build a life for yourselves. You also pour your heart and soul into AdMU work and "no longer have time" for work outside your AdMU teaching and research. You end up having triplets -- all daughters. You are able to support them through GS and HS in good private schools (or sa public school ba ninyo papapasukin?). If you do the financial math you'll know that your savings at this point will be basically zero. Trust me. I did the math for a couple who both teach in AdMU and who are more or less in this situation. Very well-loved by their students. Sort of zero savings.

And then, having smart parents who taught them the value of education and hard work, all three of them qualify for advanced training in biogenetics, molecular engineering and financial engineering -- in the US universities that can offer them the best training in the world for these fields (sorry, wala nito sa AdMU). Unfortunately, scholarships aren't forthcoming and loans aren't a good option either. They are good young women who want to use their advanced training to help others. So they look to you longingly and say... "Ma, Pa, can you send us to school?"

What will you tell them? "Just live a simpler life"?

I think this is the dilemma that Ithacxa was trying to express.

2. Some real-world fiscal stuff: Let's say that opportunity costs for SOM faculty were indeed higher, "the lure of the corporate world" being what it is. The "best young students" or "the best practitioners" who could become the "best teachers" need to be remunerated properly, given their trade-off. What would you say, Assistant Instructor or Instructor-to-be from the SOH, if you found out that the pay scale for faculty with your same "rank" in the SOM was two to three times higher (and faster in terms of increases) than yours? After all, kaya na nila. They have a huge grant and they are administratively another entity in the Loyola Schools, diba?

Baka kayo ni Ali, OK lang. But other faculty members in the wonderfully egalitarian world of AdMU? Won't even raise a peep about "inequity"?

Sarap ng usapan natin over coffee sana, 'no? :)

[Oscar01]

Although don't some faculty members make up by looking for consultancy jobs, backed up by their academic credentials? I think that given the flexible schedule afforded by the academe, you can't expect to make everything on salary?

Just thought about it since when I taught briefly, Darwin Yu passed a consultancy job that roughly doubled my teaching income for that month.

But that's nothing since Terry David was happily sharing stories about his part time job which requires him to meet with people in Malaysia... and fly to Bali with the family as a fringe benefit. :)

[Oscar01]

Of course, we always have the now trademarked "victory solution": Let the wife pay for the Internet bill... ;)

[Ali]

How many philo and theo faculty internalize all their costs?" In popular terms: How many... a) are not part of a religious order that subsidizes or supports their financial needs; b) no longer live with their parents and actually pay rent or mortgage on property that they themselves leased or purchased (i.e., did not receive as a, say, "wedding gift"); c) use only their base salary, research funding, or professorial chair proceeds for their livelihood and personal spending -- and not any other form of part-time work outside AdMU, or support from parents, relatives, friends, etc.; d) are not dependent on a spouse that works outside AdMU, i.e., they bring in at least half the family income and/or would be able to support themselves and "their half of the family expenses;" and e) have children to raise, perhaps female (whose studies can't be subsidized in Ateneo GS and HS) or whose "best option for College studies" lies not in AdMU but in another University, perhaps in the US?Didn't David Korten mention in some critique of capitalism that fully 'internalizing costs' is impossible for any entity? If I remember correctly, in When corporations ruled the world, he pointed out that many claims that 'costs have been internalized' do not make a full accounting of all the costs involved. For the philo and theo faculty member who can say "all of the above" to items (a) through (e), bravo! Sobrang bow ako. But if even one item cannot be held "completely true"... could it be that the reason why "artes liberales" scholars can 'afford' their lifestyle is because somebody else is subsidizing them? Or that they chose a "simpler" lifestyle altogether? I on the other hand question the praiseworthiness of such an achievement. From a Western, patriarchal, capitalist, and/or objectivist paradigm, the person who pulls his or her own load is indeed praiseworthy, but this point-of-view is but one of many possible and conflicting rationalities.

Aren't there, for instance, organic models and lifestyles which place much less value on independence and cost internalization? Isn't this an equally valid system of valuation?

I remember a big debate between Fr. Ben and Tina Astorga a couple of years ago. Tina was almost violent, because Fr. Ben's discussion of the Ateneo's direction spoke of keeping pace with the world but had nothing to say of those 'left by the wayside'.

There is a temple to the Elephant God Ganesha somewhere in India which is devoted utterly to rats, who are Ganesha's favored servants. Rats swarm across the place, and are fed by the priests. The rats have been the cause of much disease and their feeding is a huge drain on the surrounding community's resources. In times of famine, the rats eat first, and they must not be harmed even if they bite. And yet, the community clearly values the parasites more than they value things which are higher on our list of priorities. Is this way of viewing things less valid than ours?

In the end, I think there are inherent problems with the concepts of fair exchange and cost internalization. I think they're potentially wonderful tools, but are of limited use in a world such as ours, where the only way to live is to kill and eat and where the fundamental interconnectedness of all things is far more intimate and powerful than we can conceive.

That aside, I must admit that, no, the costs of my teaching and graduate studies aren't internalized according to victory's criteria, and I don't expect they ever will be. Does this necessarily mean my lifestyle is unsustainable?

[Ali]

Oscar01 raises an important point. Despite not having costs internalized, my lifestyle affords me opportunities for 'personal development' which very few of my 'cost internalized' friends could even dream of.

Graduate school skews things of course, and this is a caricature, but some of us can actually get away with a 12-15 hour work week, not to mention sem breaks and even summers off.

Of course, all of you know I'm just 'looking on the bright side'... Pero pabayaan naman ninyo akong mangarap sandali.

[Ali]

Originally posted by tesseract
Kape. Giniling. Sinabuyan ng init, tubig, at pag-ibig, hanggang magkaroon ng kabuuang ang dila lang ang nakahuhuli.Init, tubig, at pag-ibig?

Kabuuang dila lang ang nakahuhuli?

Tss.

[victory]

posted by Oscar01

But that's nothing since Terry David was happily sharing stories about his part time job which requires him to meet with people in Malaysia... and fly to Bali with the family as a fringe benefit.

What makes you think that Terry's job with Bank Universal in Indonesia is his part-time job -- and AdMU his full-time one? ;) What makes you think his chairmanship in AdMU didn't come about because some administrator said AdMU "needed him," appealed to his love for the school and teaching in general, and had him arrange some kind of "part-time leave" from his "real job" (which still required him to fly to Indonesia pretty often)?

Could Terry "afford" a second term as chairman? Who is chairman of the L&S Department now? Which corporation (yes, profit-seeking!) did this new chairman build? How much of this new chairman's personal funds (earned through the family business he built) were spent purchasing materials and teaching aids for use in AdMU?

Ehh. I know. Yet another story about "hidden subsidies"? Must be getting boring for you now... :)

Besides, you violated condition (c) in my post above. And what kind of consultancy work will the SOH people do to rake in the kind of fees that the SOM people can earn?


posted by Ali

I on the other hand question the praiseworthiness of such an achievement. From a Western, patriarchal, capitalist, and/or objectivist paradigm, the person who pulls his or her own load is indeed praiseworthy, but this point-of-view is but one of many possible and conflicting rationalities.

This is the response I was waiting for. But patriarchal? Isn't a lifestyle where one is forever dependent on another human being's work the one that is patriarchal?

If you have supporters or benefactors, are you so sure your "supporters" would not want you to become "self-supporting" anytime soon? ;)

There is a temple to the Elephant God Ganesha somewhere in India which is devoted utterly to rats, who are Ganesha's favored servants. Rats swarm across the place, and are fed by the priests. The rats have been the cause of much disease and their feeding is a huge drain on the surrounding community's resources. In times of famine, the rats eat first, and they must not be harmed even if they bite. And yet, the community clearly values the parasites more than they value things which are higher on our list of priorities. Is this way of viewing things less valid than ours?

India! You cite a place like India, with its poverty and mortality rate and income inequality for human beings! Sige, if your philosophy teaches you to value rats higher than human beings, I suppose that's fine... will this make you more of a "human being"? As for me, let the rats die if it means having less people live a "less-than-fully-human life" because of poverty, etc.

In the end, I think there are inherent problems with the concepts of fair exchange and cost internalization. I think they're potentially wonderful tools, but are of limited use in a world such as ours, where the only way to live is to kill and eat and where the fundamental interconnectedness of all things is far more intimate and powerful than we can conceive.

"Only way to live is to kill and eat?" Hm. Sort of zero-sum, don't you think? What about "producing goods and services that are of value to others and on which you can earn a surplus, the profits of which you can devote to increasing technical efficiency and expanding welfare for all involved"?


posted by Oscar01

Of course, we always have the now trademarked "victory solution": Let the wife pay for the Internet bill...

:lol: I can assure you that my stand-alone income more than fulfills my "half of the family expenses." Besides, since the wifey won't start her job till January 2003, who do you think is a) working and paying the bills and b) relaxing and playing the role of "trophy wife" (her words, not mine)? :)

Let's not even talk about sustainability just yet. Let's take a look at "one-time costs." On a note related to Oscar01's comment above, Ali and marseilles -- just in case you two do have plans of getting married to your partners anytime in the future, who's going to foot the bill?

[victory]

Off-topic

Break muna. Pretty hilarious stuff below, check them out. Might be too un-PC for others, though.

Rex Navarette's "SBC Packers" (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view.php?id=33646)

Rex Navarette's "Maritess vs the Superfriends" (http://www.fractalcow.com/rex/)

I personally think the "Superfriends" clip is the funniest...

[Ali]

I think a sexual harrassment case should be filed against Superman. On the other hand, I felt Maritess was unjustly judgmental of Batman and Robin's lifestyle.

Maganda si Wonder Woman. Parang si Seven.

[Ali]

Pa-share! Pa-share! Friends ko naman kayong lahat. :P

Medyo fictionalized ito, para masaya.

Regarding my 'supporters', I always tell this to students who ask about the financial realities of a career in teaching. I stopped asking for money the moment I graduated. And the only thing I still regularly receive from my parents is housing.

I bought my computer, I pay for graduate school, pay for the gasoline I and my siblings consume, and even buy about 30% of our groceries. (Marami iyon. Mostly my fault. :D) When we moved to our new home early this year, most of the expenses came out of my pocket, and I'm even spending on landscaping right now. Mahal pala.

And like many academics, I have a very expensive habit. Books.

Frankly, it's the only way my family will 'let' me do what I do. (Not that I need permission.) My teaching remains an issue.

It's almost a game.

Parinig si brother#1. Bili ako ng bagong colored printer, hard disk, at tv tuner ng pc.

Parinig si sister. Bili ako ng pantalon sa Diesel, sandals sa Naf Naf, sapatos sa Bass, at belt sa boutique na hindi ko na maalala ang pangalan. (Mga once-a-month ito. Or else she'll disown me.)

Parinig si brother #2. I have his aircon fixed. Bili pa ako ng bagong aircon para sa kuwarto.

Parinig si Daddy. Bili ako ng isa pang aircon.

Parinig si Mommy. Actually, hindi parinig. Demand. Ayaw na niya ng may kaagaw sa pagpapanood ng Pangako sa Iyo at Sex and the City. Bili ako ng 29" colored TV.

Parinig si tesseract...

Teka. Nakakahalata na ako!

:splat:

How do I afford this on zero salary? (I'm on 'leave' while I finish my M.A.)

A career in showbiz.

:bounce:

Actually, mistress ako ni Erap.

:bounce2:

Things just work out, I guess. The little things do add up if you shepherd them judiciously. A colleague (I thinki it was Alma Ocampo-Salvador) once shared in the Faculty colloquium that she didn't understand why some teachers made such a big deal about teachers being poor. She and her husband were just teachers, and were raising a family. And surprise, surprise. It was possible. In fact, they were doing pretty well. She didn't even consider their lifestyle all that simple.

So it's been done, and I think the people who do it talk about it and discuss it less than we do. But then again, talk is fun.

However, after all that, I'm still quite dependent. For instance, there is no way I could have afforded the very, very expensive surgical procedure to repair my ruptured patellar tendon. (Without which I would not now be walking.) And by stubbornly insisting I pay for part of rehabilitation and medication, I've virtually wiped out what savings I had. (Kasi naman, may antibiotic akong 2500 pesos a day, eh.)

(And who am I kidding? What I spend's a drop in the bucket compared to what my parents spend and all the things my family has to put up with. I'm just glad that behind all the 'parinig', and the cute stories above, they remain supportive of the choices I continue to make. Kaya ginagastusan ko sila.)

Anyway, I'm almost glad that unlike marseilles, the possibility of marriage is impossibly remote.

Did Mikoid just run away, screaming? He he he. Or was that marseilles?

Tunog madrama na ba ako? :D Dapat lang. I do have an image to uphold!

But I'm getting in this thing way too deep. Sorry, natuwa ako sa train of thought ko. Madaling araw na kasi.

Ano pa ba?

Regarding India. Of course I don't agree. Of course it's a place we find scandalously inhuman. Of course I'd rather torch the temple, kill the rats, and save the people. But the fact remains that the people around Ganesha's Temple won't want me to do that. They'll send Thugee assassins to kill me and sacrifice me to Kali, the Goddess of Earth, Blood, and Murder if they even read their thread.

But my point was that valuations differ, and while, in the end, I believe we can find common ground, it is dangerous to initially assume the universality of any paradigm.

On the killing and eating to live, it's not really zero-sum. It's entropic. Life is intrinsically wasteful. All living activity is. (I'm talking in terms of energy and matter.) So even the 'productivity' you speak of in economic terms, inches the universe closer and closer to Entropy. (I'm reading up on Schrodinger's theories of life and autopoesis, so I'm into killing, eating, entropy, and all that now.)

Regarding Rex Navarette.

:bounce:

Sige. Tama na nga. Ang weird weird na nito.

Pasensiya na kayo.

Blame tesseract.

[victory]

Thanks for sharing, Ali. I really appreciate it. Hope you recover fully from your operation soon.

Sobrang na-off-topic na yata itong thread na ito; parang konektado na sa TEACHERS - Our Turn! (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43982&pagenumber=1&threadpassword=)

Glad you liked the Rex Navarette pieces. I thought you and tesseract might like the scenes with the Wonder Twins' monkey and the "giant attacking New York," although I expected that you would not like Maritess' comments about Batman and Robin's choice of lifestyle. ;)

[Ali]

Since when have threads been on topic? I actually like how things warp and change on PEx. And that includes my personality.

Back to the topic. Here are some Ateneo changes.

The offices of the School of Management are moving into the School of Management building today and tomorrow.

The Church of the Gesu is finished, and the first big Mass is tomorrow afternoon (Saturday, 6 July, at 5 p.m.). It's Doreen's memorial service.

And both Gonzaga cafeterias are being renovated.

[Linda Lovelace]

Guess whose picture this is. Hint: He is a prolific poster in the Academe and known for his "good looks and brains."

http://www.meaonline.org/2001/front/oscar.gif

PHILIPPINES' MOST WANTED - j/k

[tesseract]

Ali:

1. Oo, ganoon ang kape. Tss-in mo mukha mo.
2. Maganda si Seven. Siya'y Wonder Woman. May dalawang wonder of the world siya. Ay mali, may dalawang wonderful world sya.
3. Blame tesseract? Tss.

Oh, and by the way Ali: How do you know that this whole farce wasn't some sort of test? :)

[Ali]

tesseract:

1. Hindi kailangang ganoon ang kape. Kahit walang pagmamahal, kahit hindi lasapin ng dila, kahit ni hindi gilingin at sabuyan ng mainit na tubig, kape ang kape ang kape.
2. We are in utter agreement. I also love Lynn Sherman and Ugoy Ugoy.
3. Ok, I won't blame tesseract. If only because Ma'am Doreen was always patient and always kind, and because you didn't get to eat at her memorial like I did, and to your dying day, you will not know the bitersweet joy of eating lechon refrito in a balsamic glaze stuffed into tiny pita pockets with fresh greens while reminiscing with the movers and shakers of Philippine cuisine, literature, and theater.

Oh, and by the way tesseract: This farce is some sort of test. Everything is. :)

[tesseract]

Originally posted by Ali
tesseract:

1. Hindi kailangang ganoon ang kape. Kahit walang pagmamahal, kahit hindi lasapin ng dila, kahit ni hindi gilingin at sabuyan ng mainit na tubig, kape ang kape ang kape.
2. We are in utter agreement. I also love Lynn Sherman and Ugoy Ugoy.
3. Ok, I won't blame tesseract. If only because Ma'am Doreen was always patient and always kind, and because you didn't get to eat at her memorial like I did, and to your dying day, you will not know the bitersweet joy of eating lechon refrito in a balsamic glaze stuffed into tiny pita pockets with fresh greens while reminiscing with the movers and shakers of Philippine cuisine, literature, and theater.

Oh, and by the way tesseract: This farce is some sort of test. Everything is. :)

Fine. Allow me to rephrase what I said...

How do you know that this whole farce wasn't some sort of test of my design? :)

[Ali]

You? Design a farce?

I'd expect it of Moliere. Or Goldoni. Or Gozzi. Or even marseilles. (I'll introduce you to her one of these days. Magkakasundo kayo.)

But don't you specialize in other, more lucrative, dramatic genres?

I, on the other hand, prefer murder mysteries. In the medieval sense of the term. (I'm currently reading Tao, Isagani R. Cruz's interesting, but somewhat uninspired adaptation of the late 15th century English Mystery Play, Everyman.)

[tesseract]

Originally posted by Ali
You? Design a farce?

I'd expect it of Moliere. Or Goldoni. Or Gozzi. Or even marseilles. (I'll introduce you to her one of these days. Magkakasundo kayo.)

But don't you specialize in other, more lucrative, dramatic genres?

I, on the other hand, prefer murder mysteries. In the medieval sense of the term. (I'm currently reading Tao, Isagani R. Cruz's interesting, but somewhat uninspired adaptation of the late 15th century English Mystery Play, Everyman.)

Yes, Ali. I. Design. A. Farce. Whee.

[Ali]

tesseract, I'm certain you can do anything you set your mind on doing.

Hayop ka naman, eh.

At malakas ka sa akin ngayon.

But I'm sorry, you really don't fit in my pocket.

(I wonder what naughty victory's thinking right now? He he he. :D)

[victory]

posted by Ali

(I wonder what naughty victory's thinking right now? He he he. :D)


"Batman & Robin" scene from Rex Navarette's Maritess vs. the Superfriends (http://www.fractalcow.com/rex/).

I quote: "I don't want to know! I don't want to know!"

:lol:

[tesseract]

Originally posted by Ali
tesseract, I'm certain you can do anything you set your mind on doing.

Hayop ka naman, eh.

At malakas ka sa akin ngayon.

But I'm sorry, you really don't fit in my pocket.

(I wonder what naughty victory's thinking right now? He he he. :D)

Hindi ako hayop. Isa akong Super Pokemon.

victory? I don't know. I'm not psychically attuned to him right now.

[Ali]

http://www.geocities.com/alifigueroa/tesseract.jpg

[marseilles]

Originally posted by victory
You were thinking more like an economist in that last paragraph of yours than you've ever done in previous posts I've seen (not sure how this comes across to you, though! :)).

Victory:
(1) Don't worry; as I've tried to say: economics is wonderful. God bless economics. Praise be to all economists. :lol: I find nothing wrong with being described as "thinking like an economist." I'm interested in political philosophy myself, and of course that is closely related with economics. So if you or anyone has any caricature of philosophers as being anti-economics, it certainly doesn't apply to me, and I think I can safely say it doesn't apply to any of my esteemed colleagues at the department.

Originally posted by Ithacxa
Philosophy 104 did a good job showing me what I considered was the win-win solution to many conflicts in life. Theology however did not. I remember my Theology 141 professor ranting about how having money eventually led all of us to become greedy and selfish.
Thank you for that clarification. I sometimes get the impression, you see, that people blame this whole "Ateneo anti-corporate mindset" on the philosophy department; that, plus I keep seeing caricatures made of the vision of the philosophy syllabus, painting it to be anti-business, anti-commerce, etc.... when I know for a fact that it isn't.

If you do feel that the Theology 141 syllabus is the source of this perceived dilemma among students, then I do agree very strongly with you that the SOM and the Theology departments ought to engage in greater dialogue about this. I was fortunate; my Theology 141 teacher was also an economist by training, and he taught the class from a perspective that had sprung from relatively greater dialogue between the two disciplines: liberation theology and economics (relative, that is, to other teachers' classes).

Since the higher ups are calling for greater interdisciplinarity with regard to both research and curriculum development, perhaps this is one area where the theology and SOM departments can talk. (The results of the IS/Theology and SST dialogues have been encouraging.)

At the same time, I've also heard some students saying that they wish the SOM curricula themselves would include a class that would specifically tackle these questions: a class on business ethics, for example, or business from a philosophical perspective. By third year, students in general begin to ask these larger questions (like "What is the principle behind the whole busines model, and what justifies this principle?") and I do think that many students would appreciate a class that dealt with these questions head on. Perhaps this is something you could suggest to the SOM body.

Now, back to victory's questions....
"How many philo and theo faculty internalize all their costs?"
Nice question you have here. Well ... I'm not trying to go out of my way to disprove you, and I can't speak for the theology faculty, but honestly, most of the philosophy faculty do "internalize all their costs." Of the current full-time faculty (SY 2002-2003): minus the two full-time teaching priests, I think only two or maybe three of the junior faculty members still live with their parents.

Now with regard to your hypothetical situation ...
. . . And then, having smart parents who taught them the value of education and hard work, all three of them qualify for advanced training in biogenetics, molecular engineering and financial engineering -- in the US universities that can offer them the best training in the world for these fields (sorry, wala nito sa AdMU). Unfortunately, scholarships aren't forthcoming and loans aren't a good option either. They are good young women who want to use their advanced training to help others. So they look to you longingly and say... "Ma, Pa, can you send us to school?"

What will you tell them? "Just live a simpler life"?
On the one hand, believe me, I honestly do understand the dilemma that Ithacxa was trying to express ....

But at the same time I have to frankly say that I do find your hypothetical situation a little out of my, um, weltanschauung. My own family isn't super-well off, and both my elder brother's as well as my own graduate studies are both being pursued without financial support from our family. So if you're trying to paint a real dilemma here by saying, "What will you tell them? 'Just live a simpler life'?", I'm afraid that it doesn't really apply to me, because it is in fact precisely that principle--"live a simpler life"--that shapes my values and is the way I was raised by my own parents. (I.e., I don't "hate" my parents at all for not being able to afford to pay for my M.A. Nor I do resent the fact that they can't send me to any sosy school abroad for further studies.)

What would you say, Assistant Instructor or Instructor-to-be from the SOH, if you found out that the pay scale for faculty with your same "rank" in the SOM was two to three times higher (and faster in terms of increases) than yours? After all, kaya na nila. They have a huge grant and they are administratively another entity in the Loyola Schools, diba?

Baka kayo ni Ali, OK lang. But other faculty members in the wonderfully egalitarian world of AdMU? Won't even raise a peep about "inequity"?
Once again, as I said ... I'm sorry, but I can't really relate to such a dilemma. Maybe it's because I'm still in my mid-20s, still young, so my financial needs are still very simple, I don't know. But I guess I'm not the person to ask.

I do know that if I really wanted to make loads money, I could always do something else. Ali, even moreso: he actually has a degree in a more "corporate" area of study and can make as much money as anyone in the SOM if he wanted to. But, believe it or not, I really, honestly am happy where I am right now.

I guess my point is: If you're trying to speak for poor faculty members who feel that their salaries are oppressive, and you're trying to champion their cause, then that's fine; it's a noble cause. But the cause isn't mine, and you're not speaking for me. ;)

=====

Yeah, this weather is perfect coffee weather. :)

[marseilles]

Originally posted by Oscar01
Although don't some faculty members make up by looking for consultancy jobs, backed up by their academic credentials? I think that given the flexible schedule afforded by the academe, you can't expect to make everything on salary?
You have a good point there, Oscar. Some people think that being an academician is merely about teaching. It isn't I think one way of putting it is: being an academician is an entire lifestyle. You can't even say it's any one "job." Most academicians are tied to a particular university where they receive a regular salary, but even that isn't universally true--many academicians just teach part-time classes here and there.

Other than that, academicians also do research and consultancy on the side: which still isn't really separate from their "career" as an academician. It's still part of it!

They also write papers, deliver lectures, and do a host of other things.

It's all part of an academicians' life.

It's sort of like being a full-time freelancer. :lol: Except your freelance work isn't a technical skill, but your knowledge and your capacity to think.

[muchomuchacho]

I don't think victory was trying to champion anybody's cause. Based on what I've read so far in this thread, victory was merely pointing out that there should not be a trade-off between economic needs and the innate desire to teach or research. Fine if some people want to settle for that "simple life", but it doesn't mean that it has to be that way because in that "sosy school" that victory came from, teachers get paid the same, if not bigger rates than what they would have earned in the corporate world. The result: world class teaching quality and research output, world class not just by the person's own self-fulfilled feeling but also by universally accepted standards. Another result: the school can attract the best and the brightest academic talent available.

[marseilles]

muchomuchacho, thanks for the clarification. point taken, and as i said, i completely agree with that point. ;)

[marseilles]

Ali, you know what, i think i have a copy of the Rex Navarette CD lying around somewhere ....

Meanwhile, how was Ma'am Doreen's wake?

And how does the Pyramid of Giza look from the inside? I had dinner with Sir Ediboy yesterday (Rasa Singapura feast--you should've been there :lol: ); he said he likes the interior. Makabista nga bukas.

=====

Meanwhile ... o siya, ayoko na yata munang ituloy pa ang usapan tungkol sa economics at kung anu-ano pa. Sumasakit lang ang ulo ko! :lol: I feel my posts have been misunderstood. :mecry: sa classroom na lang .... sigh ....

[Ali]

marseilles!

Rex Navarrete CD? Pahiram! Daan ako sa inyo minsan.

I miss walking to your house. Actually, I miss walking. But I'm beginning to walk properly again. Lagi na kasi akong umaakyat ng hagdan. (Hi tesseract.)

I missed the Ateneo's tribute to Ma'am Doreen. (Long, long story.)

The CCP Memorial was on the front page of the Inquirer, and the article pretty much covered the event. Except the food, which is indescribable.

The Pyramid of Giza is incomplete, but quite nice. I like the austerity and severity of it, but it doesn't feel that 'Atenean' yet. Kulang sa yabang. He he he.

My personal peeve: the exterior's too white. I love white. My cell phone's white. Most sets I design are white. But there are thousands of shades and qualities of white. The Church looks like it's made of bond paper. It's somewhat stark and lacks luster and depth. They probably used acrylic paint. (I would have wanted it done in white marble, like the Parthenon, para Athenian. Pero mahal yun.) But it will almost certainly mellow once the sun and rain batter the whitewash a bit.

And even if everybody misunderstands your posts, I understand them. :)

Oo nga pala. The pic I posted didn't work. To see the real tesseract, click here. (http://www.geocities.com/alifigueroa/tesseract.jpg).

Mwahahahaha!

[tesseract]

Originally posted by Ali
marseilles!

Rex Navarrete CD? Pahiram! Daan ako sa inyo minsan.

I miss walking to your house. Actually, I miss walking. But I'm beginning to walk properly again. Lagi na kasi akong umaakyat ng hagdan. (Hi tesseract.)

I missed the Ateneo's tribute to Ma'am Doreen. (Long, long story.)

The CCP Memorial was on the front page of the Inquirer, and the article pretty much covered the event. Except the food, which is indescribable.

The Pyramid of Giza is incomplete, but quite nice. I like the austerity and severity of it, but it doesn't feel that 'Atenean' yet. Kulang sa yabang. He he he.

My personal peeve: the exterior's too white. I love white. My cell phone's white. Most sets I design are white. But there are thousands of shades and qualities of white. The Church looks like it's made of bond paper. It's somewhat stark and lacks luster and depth. They probably used acrylic paint. (I would have wanted it done in white marble, like the Parthenon, para Athenian. Pero mahal yun.) But it will almost certainly mellow once the sun and rain batter the whitewash a bit.

And even if everybody misunderstands your posts, I understand them. :)

Oo nga pala. The pic I posted didn't work. To see the real tesseract, click here. (http://www.geocities.com/alifigueroa/tesseract.jpg).

Mwahahahaha!
Naman e. Purple yan e. True Blue ito. Ehe.

[Ali]

I digitally altered the image to protect your identity. Shall I post your real picture?

Mwahahahaha!

http://www.pokemon.com/downloads/images/trainer_badge1.gif

[tesseract]

Originally posted by Ali
I digitally altered the image to protect your identity. Shall I post your real picture?

Mwahahahaha!

http://www.pokemon.com/downloads/images/trainer_badge1.gif

Digitally altered from blue to purple. Ayos. :)

[Ali]

http://www.geocities.com/alifigueroa/blue.gif
If the picture doesn't load, click here. (http://www.geocities.com/alifigueroa/blue.gif)

[tesseract]

Ali:

Hindi yata nag-click yung picture. Sayang.

Gawa tayo ng bagong gulo.

_________________________

We need, aside from the research center (which I would no longer like to discuss for the moment), a new library. Rizal's old, and small. We need a bigger one, with more collections, etc.

Ayan.

[victory]

posted by marseilles

But at the same time I have to frankly say that I do find your hypothetical situation a little out of my, um, weltanschauung. My own family isn't super-well off, and both my elder brother's as well as my own graduate studies are both being pursued without financial support from our family. So if you're trying to paint a real dilemma here by saying, "What will you tell them? 'Just live a simpler life'?", I'm afraid that it doesn't really apply to me, because it is in fact precisely that principle--"live a simpler life"--that shapes my values and is the way I was raised by my own parents. (I.e., I don't "hate" my parents at all for not being able to afford to pay for my M.A. Nor I do resent the fact that they can't send me to any sosy school abroad for further studies.)


Ehh. My bad. Should have clarified my little example a bit more. I was talking about College (see post above: "you were able to pay for GS and HS, but...") -- what if you weren't even able to afford your children's College education?

As for pursuing your grad studies on your own, congratulations! Dapat lang siguro. Ang tanda niyo na.

Of course you shouldn't "hate" your parents. But then...
1. Did you really have to make a heart-wrenching choice to either go to a "sosy school abroad" (which you preferred) or continue in AdMU? What if your parents weren't able to send you to the "sosy school in the Philippines" called AdMU for College (am really not sure how you define "sosy," but I am willing to wager that for the vast majority of Filipinos, AdMU fits the bill...)?
2. Regardless of how understanding your children might be, how would you feel as a parent if the only reason why your children weren't able to do the things they needed/wanted to do was because you weren't able to afford it?

It is a question I pose to young ones who might want to become a teacher "to serve others," if they had a higher-earning preference/choice in some other field: By pursuing a "dream" or a "vocation" that you "loved doing," where you are "honestly happy," did you unwittingly end up "selling out" your children's future? "To serve others" did you end up depriving your own family of what you could have otherwise given them had you chosen another path?

Ali, what if your parents couldn't pay for your operation? marseilles, what if (God forbid!) it isn't "just" college or graduate education you couldn't pay for -- but a medical need/emergency for your kids, or for your husband?

Para walang sisihan down the road, 'no? (What a "sosy way" of putting it! :lol: )

I'm sorry, but I can't really relate to such a dilemma. Maybe it's because I'm still in my mid-20s, still young, so my financial needs are still very simple, I don't know. But I guess I'm not the person to ask.

Maybe.

I guess my point is: If you're trying to speak for poor faculty members who feel that their salaries are oppressive, and you're trying to champion their cause, then that's fine; it's a noble cause. But the cause isn't mine, and you're not speaking for me.

Yikes! Where did that come from?!? Championing a cause? Nobility? "Speaking for poor faculty members?" Whoa! :D

I would never speak for you. I enjoy "hearing" you express your thoughts too much. You're smart, articulate, you have a clear sense of where you're coming from, what your values are and why they are right for you.

And you push back. I like that.

Meanwhile ... o siya, ayoko na yata munang ituloy pa ang usapan tungkol sa economics at kung anu-ano pa. Sumasakit lang ang ulo ko! I feel my posts have been misunderstood. sa classroom na lang .... sigh ....

Uy, huwag naman. Believe it or not, I really do understand where you're coming from; maybe I don't acknowledge it as often as I should, or maybe I pushed too hard without expressing that I took the time to understand and consider your position. Perils of an online forum. Dapat kasi we should be discussing this over coffee, face to face.

I am really, sincerely sorry if you feel as if I misunderstood your posts. I agree, though -- Let's continue this via some other channel. E-mail perhaps, or when we do get together for coffee sometime.

Don't worry; as I've tried to say: economics is wonderful. God bless economics. Praise be to all economists. I find nothing wrong with being described as "thinking like an economist." I'm interested in political philosophy myself, and of course that is closely related with economics. So if you or anyone has any caricature of philosophers as being anti-economics, it certainly doesn't apply to me, and I think I can safely say it doesn't apply to any of my esteemed colleagues at the department.

And praise be to all philosophers. After all, if modern economics traces itself to Adam Smith, who held the chair of moral philosophy in the University of Glasgow, and if the formal name of the degree I am currently pursuing does somehow deserve to have "philosophy" in it somewhere, then we really do have something to share, 'no?

At the end of the day, I really do hold your colleagues at the department with the "highest esteem" -- many of them are my close friends. As I hold you in highest esteem -- else I would not push as hard as I do.


posted by Ali

And even if everybody misunderstands your posts, I understand them.

Ingat ka, Ali. Baka magselos si tesseract.

Boys, huwag maasar, OK? Nakiki-jokey-jokey lang ako-ey (rhymes with sosy).

Sige na nga, Ali, I also hold you in "highest esteem." Siyempre naman. Super fan mo yata ako, you Bukas Palad boy band singer. Yeah! You rock! :)

[victory]

posted by muchomuchacho

I don't think victory was trying to champion anybody's cause. Based on what I've read so far in this thread, victory was merely pointing out that there should not be a trade-off between economic needs and the innate desire to teach or research. Fine if some people want to settle for that "simple life", but it doesn't mean that it has to be that way because in that "sosy school" that victory came from, teachers get paid the same, if not bigger rates than what they would have earned in the corporate world. The result: world class teaching quality and research output, world class not just by the person's own self-fulfilled feeling but also by universally accepted standards. Another result: the school can attract the best and the brightest academic talent available.

Yup, muchomuchacho, I really wasn't trying to champion anybody's cause. I must clarify though, that the trade-off between academia and the corporate world exists wherever one goes -- 5 or 10 years down the road someone who graduated with an MBA and duked it out in corporate America will most probably earn more than his or her professor from a US business school. The trade-off is "less exacerbated," though, since the pay scale, research and administrative support offered by top US business schools do allow academics to live a fairly comfortable life -- again, relative to the Philippine situation.

But here's where one must be careful: This does not hold for every type of academic institution in the US (try teaching elementary school level kids in a "less-than-sosy-school" and living in New York City -- or even in a place like the School of Social Work in the very same universities that house these "sosy business schools" -- and see for yourself). And here is where marseilles and I (sort of) come together: Addressing the economic/financial issues in academia helps a lot, but does not solve every problem.

There will be trade-offs when you choose to become an academic. It depends on your field, in which country you decide to teach and do research and do the "many other things that are part of the academician's lifestyle" (as marseilles would put it) -- but at the end of the day I believe it's always best to make an informed choice: Want to be an academic? Fine. But make sure you go into it with open eyes and some idea of the trade-offs involved, so that when push comes to shove you have clear reasons for why you do what you do.

In the meantime, administrators and those in charge of schools really ought to work hard to make sure the trade-offs are not as "painful" or "difficult" -- whether this means helping address the financial issues, or "simply" taking the time to build a community among faculty members, mentor and shepherd young ones who aspire to become good scholars, etc.

Preferably all of the above.

[Hannibal]

To those who have been to the new JGSOM building, please describe what it looks like inside and outside for the benefit of the many Ateneans who have been living abroad for many years. Aside from the church and the JGSOM, what are the other new physical developments in the Loyola Heights campus?

Thanks.

[tesseract]

Originally posted by Hannibal
To those who have been to the new JGSOM building, please describe what it looks like inside and outside for the benefit of the many Ateneans who have been living abroad for many years. Aside from the church and the JGSOM, what are the other new physical developments in the Loyola Heights campus?

Thanks.

GOOD

Well, it's one of the best-looking buildings in the school today. It sports the brick architecture that the Ateneo seems to like lately. The building is also modern-looking, with the brick being complimented by chrome and metal fixtures. The doors look great, the rooms are big.

BAD

The building seems to be anti-tambay. Students will be discouraged from hanging around the corridors, since they will have no place to really rest their arms on. This is because the railings are METAL, which BASK IN THE WONDERFUL RADIANCE OF THE PHILLIPINE SUN. You get the picture. And the JGSOM, along with its sister building, the CTC, has a tendency to get flooded along the corridors due to lack of better drainage.

[Nijinsky]

Originally posted by tesseract


GOOD

Well, it's one of the best-looking buildings in the school today. It sports the brick architecture that the Ateneo seems to like lately. The building is also modern-looking, with the brick being complimented by chrome and metal fixtures. The doors look great, the rooms are big.



Brick architecture? Sounds very New "Englandish" and Ivy "Leaguish" to me. Anyway, it's appropriate. Ateneo is the Philippine equivalent.

The next step would be to encourage the use of bicycles on campus and to build more dorms inside the campus. That would really make Ateneo look like a U.S.A. campus.

[MissDaisy]

Are there plans of constructing a residential community for Ateneo staff and teachers? At one point, there were discussions about building something in the "vacant" lot (not anymore) at the back of the grade school. (I think squatters have taken over this area.) They were also exploring the possibility of building apartment/lofts (beehive-type) along the steep slopes of the campus facing the Loyola Memorial Park. (Nice romantic scenery, isn't it? Or excellent for shooting a movie like "Poltergeist III.")

[Oscar01]

Originally posted by victory
Yup, muchomuchacho, I really wasn't trying to champion anybody's cause. I must clarify though, that the trade-off between academia and the corporate world exists wherever one goes -- 5 or 10 years down the road someone who graduated with an MBA and duked it out in corporate America will most probably earn more than his or her professor from a US business school. The trade-off is "less exacerbated," though, since the pay scale, research and administrative support offered by top US business schools do allow academics to live a fairly comfortable life -- again, relative to the Philippine situation.
The question about how to apologize to a kid for choosing to live the simple life is a far, far better answer than the noble-sounding romanticized fatalism some people seem to prefer.

[Exterminator]

Originally posted by Hannibal
To those who have been to the new JGSOM building, please describe what it looks like inside and outside for the benefit of the many Ateneans who have been living abroad for many years. Aside from the church and the JGSOM, what are the other new physical developments in the Loyola Heights campus?

Thanks.

Here's a picture of the JGSOM.

http://www.theguidon.com/images/photos/200206/inquiry.jpg

[tesseract]

Originally posted by Exterminator


Here's a picture of the JGSOM.

http://www.theguidon.com/images/photos/200206/inquiry.jpg

Ey, ere you sure this is the JGSOM? It looks like the CTC to me.

[Ali]

CTC, SOM, basta may bricks, ok na sa akin.

Ivy na lang ang kulang. :D

[Exterminator]

Originally posted by tesseract


Ey, ere you sure this is the JGSOM? It looks like the CTC to me.

Sorry. My mistake.

The picture is that of the CTC, not the SOM building.

[Hannibal]

How was the inauguration of the Church of Gesu? Who were there?

How about the JGSOM inauguration? Same question as above.

Please share some stories for the benefit of the Ateneans (like me) who live abroad.

Thanks.

[Ali]

I'm about to leave for thr Dedication Liturgy of the Church of the Gesu. Will keep you posted.

The SOM's had many ceremonies, and is already in partial use. But I'm not sure there's been a formal major inauguration yet. May construction pa, eh. And there are construction problems yet to be rectified before the University accepts the thing.

[Exterminator]

Ateneo Church Dedication Set
Publish Date: [Tuesday, July 30, 2002]

The Ateneo Church of the Gesu is the Ateneo community’s statement of faith as a Catholic, Filipino, and a Jesuit institution. It is the eighth Church of Gesu outside the mother Church of the Society of Jesus in Rome, the Il Gesu, built in the early Renaissance and where St. Ignatius of Loyola was buried and major relics of St. Francis Xavier are found.

It is the fulfillment of a dream of Fr. William F. Masterson, S.J., back in 1949, to build an icon of Jesuit vision and spirituality at the new campus in Loyola Heights, Quezon City.

On Wednesday, July 31 the feast of St. Ignatius, the Church of the Gesu will be dedicated in honor of Jesus our Lord. The solemn rites will be officiated by Manila Archbishop Jaime Cardinal Sin at 4 p.m. at the Sacred Heart Hill of the Loyola Heights campus in Quezon City.

The rites of dedication and anointing of the Church and altar in all its richness in meaning and history will be observed. The highlights of the celebration are the consecration of the altar with sacred chrism, the blessing of the holy water, the sprinkling of holy water on the church walls, the anointing of 12 crosses representing the 12 apostles, and the incensation of the community. Relics of Saints Ignatius, Francis Xavier, John Berchmans, Robert Bellarmine, Aloysius Gonzaga, Stanislaus Kostka, and the Japanese martyrs Paul Miki and John Goto will be placed beneath the altar.

Designed by Ricio+Casas Architects, the church’s striking triangular architecture symbolizes three things: the Holy Trinity, the outstretched arms of the Sacred Heart and the Filipino spirit embodied in the nipa hut roof design.

The Church has a seating capacity of one thousand, a loft for the choir, two side chapels: one for the exposition of the Blessed Sacrament, and another dedicated to Mother Mary, Patroness of the university.

Located at the crossroads of the grade school, high school, and college, Ateneo Church of the Gesu will be the spiritual center for the campus, a constant reminder of the Atenean’s love for Christ and Mary and his commitment to country for the greater glory of God.

[Hero33]

wooo hooo! xavier! hhehehe

la lang. high school ko yan eh! hehe

good for admu for making changes and keeping with the times. it is only natural that they make these changes if they want to expand their horizons. La Salle may have been well ahead in having the schools that ateneo is only now thinking of opening, but that doesnt mean that La Salle has a monopoly on education.

As long as they both progressing for the better education of the youth it all good :)

[Wez]

What is the name of the new finance degree in Ateneo? Is it MS Financial Engineering or MS Mathematical Finance? Can somebody please clarify?

Secondly, I heard that a new course called BS Materials Science will be offered beginning next school year. This will be jointly administered by the Departments of Physics and Chemistry. Has anyone seen the curriculum? Where can I find it?

Thanks.

[sum1]

taga-la salle ako. kaso pasingit nalang. magkakaroon ng ms sa finance ang ateneo? cool. me kasama na rin ang la salle. =)

kaso honestly, alam mo ang problema sa finance studies dito sa pilipinas, kulang pa ang mga pwedeng magturo kaso set-up na tayo ng set-up ng mga ms finance specialization degrees. kaya nga kinocompare lang ang ms degrees natin as bachelor lang sa ibang bansa.

even for la salle. nakwento ko nga sa teacher ko na may ph.d. sa finance na bakit naman magbubukas ng ms fin eng ang la salle, e kulang naman ng faculty na specialist ang training sa finance. (i think the same goes with ateneo). ganon din ang observation niya, kaso nga lang ang isang faculty ng la salle super hype magopen ng ms degree nila.

undergrad level pa lang e. wala na ngang me kayang magopen ng bs finance degree, puro management with finance or management of fin. inst. lang kasi kulang talaga ang faculty.

sana nalang, magjoint offering ang ateneo, la salle, at up ng ms finance na degree, para ang resources ng 3 schools icombine. madalas kasi ang mga finance prof sa pilipinas e mga accounting, management o (most) economics na me konting alam sa financial economics or financial management, tapos nagtuturo na ng finance. sana man lang if magcocombine ang mga me-phd sa field na to or sa relevant field magsama-sama para magoffer ng isang course, edi masaya ang lahat.

hati-hati lang nga sa kikitain. :D

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by sum1
taga-la salle ako. kaso pasingit nalang. magkakaroon ng ms sa finance ang ateneo? cool. me kasama na rin ang la salle. =)

kaso honestly, alam mo ang problema sa finance studies dito sa pilipinas, kulang pa ang mga pwedeng magturo kaso set-up na tayo ng set-up ng mga ms finance specialization degrees. kaya nga kinocompare lang ang ms degrees natin as bachelor lang sa ibang bansa.

even for la salle. nakwento ko nga sa teacher ko na may ph.d. sa finance na bakit naman magbubukas ng ms fin eng ang la salle, e kulang naman ng faculty na specialist ang training sa finance. (i think the same goes with ateneo). ganon din ang observation niya, kaso nga lang ang isang faculty ng la salle super hype magopen ng ms degree nila.

undergrad level pa lang e. wala na ngang me kayang magopen ng bs finance degree, puro management with finance or management of fin. inst. lang kasi kulang talaga ang faculty.

sana nalang, magjoint offering ang ateneo, la salle, at up ng ms finance na degree, para ang resources ng 3 schools icombine. madalas kasi ang mga finance prof sa pilipinas e mga accounting, management o (most) economics na me konting alam sa financial economics or financial management, tapos nagtuturo na ng finance. sana man lang if magcocombine ang mga me-phd sa field na to or sa relevant field magsama-sama para magoffer ng isang course, edi masaya ang lahat.

hati-hati lang nga sa kikitain. :D

From what I've been reading in this thread, it's just MS FE that's going to be offered in Ateneo. This will be done as an extension to the ME program where the ME major can opt to continue his FE studies once he's/she's done with his/her undergrad. The most likely reason that the program is implemented this way is that ME, like all other Ateneo undergrad courses that are geared towards a broader scope, is loaded with core subjects like Philosophy, Theology, and Social Studies that it's impossible to add highly specialized fields. So the only other alternative is to add an aditional year for the FE subjects. To justify the extra year, they needed to offer it as a masters degree program.

I agree that sourcing faculty will be a challenge. The good thing going is that Ateneo already has a considerable number of alumni working in financial fields such as equities research, investment banking and derivatives and have masters degrees so some of them could teach part time. I think our fellow PEXer Lek-Lek will be teaching part time in Ateneo. In fairness to those who conceived this new course, they have been thinking about it for a very long time.

Your idea af a joint Ateneo-La Salle endeavor sounds interesting. In fact, AIM is already a joint venture between Ateneo, La Salle, and UP. Maybe new programs can be offered through AIM.

[sum1]

yea many ateneo alumni working in the finance field does not count. i mean those hard core people who have phds abroad and have learned finance by theory not by experience. maraming la salle graduate na naging bsp governor, they could teach how finance is applied, but i doubt it if they could teach the black-scholes model in pure theory. siyempre maganda naman sana para pareho tayo around the world, na theory of finance first bago mga applications ang tinuturo.

[rabbaddal]

I agree that Phds should get a higher priority than practitioners espescially when it comes to teaching finance theory, but in the absence or lack of them, some professionals can be tapped to fill in. Even American schools have adjunct finance professors bec. even in the US, there is not enough FE Phds to meet the growing demand in the field. By practitioners though, I meant those who use the theory more often than a BSP governor would such as an economist or researcher for an I-Bank like Morgan Stanley or an analyst for a portfolio fund.

[Kaiser88]

Originally posted by rabbaddal
I agree that Phds should get a higher priority than practitioners espescially when it comes to teaching finance theory, but in the absence or lack of them, some professionals can be tapped to fill in. Even American schools have adjunct finance professors bec. even in the US, there is not enough FE Phds to meet the growing demand in the field. By practitioners though, I meant those who use the theory more often than a BSP governor would such as an economist or researcher for an I-Bank like Morgan Stanley or an analyst for a portfolio fund.

i agree with rabbaddal, i would rather learn from someone who has had actual working experience in the financial services industry than from someone who has a PhD but no experience. as we all know, there are some things that cannot be learned from theory alone.

about that MS FE program...i definitely would've taken that if it were available when i was still studying.

[YFU'ER]

Originally posted by rabbaddal
I agree that Phds should get a higher priority than practitioners espescially when it comes to teaching finance theory, but in the absence or lack of them, some professionals can be tapped to fill in. Even American schools have adjunct finance professors bec. even in the US, there is not enough FE Phds to meet the growing demand in the field. By practitioners though, I meant those who use the theory more often than a BSP governor would such as an economist or researcher for an I-Bank like Morgan Stanley or an analyst for a portfolio fund.

Rabbaddal,

If and when you return to the Philippines for good, do you plan to teach at JGSOM? Just asking!

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by YFU'ER


Rabbaddal,

If and when you return to the Philippines for good, do you plan to teach at JGSOM? Just asking!

I'd be more than willing if invited! But as far as I know, the school has very high standards when it comes to hiring adjunct professors even if they are sometimes short on faculty. The people they get such as Mrs. Victory, Victory and Oscar01 usually received top grades while in college so I doubt it if they will ever consider me for a job there except for mixing Victory's morning coffee.

[sum1]

wag po nating insultuhin ang bsp governor natin:


From 1965-1989, Mr. Buenaventura held many senior positions at Citibank involved in restructuring negotiations of the Philippines sovereign debt. From 1979-1982, he served as Senior Vice President and Regional Treasurer in Hong Kong, managing the treasury operations of Citibank in 12 countries including Korea, Japan, Australia, Singapore and India. As Merchant Bank Head in Singapore, from 19721974, he had investment banking area respon Singapore. He served as Chief Executive in Indosibilities for Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore. He served as Chief Executive in Indonesia from 1974-76 and Malaysia from 1976-1979


di lang siyang economist na walang practice sa finance theory. si jose camacho is also one. investment banker dati.

ikaw na rin nagsabi phd's should get first priority. and that SOME professionals could teach in the absence. e pano nga naman kung wala talagang academics na merong phd sa field na to. hindi naman lang sinasabi nating FE phd kasi as far as i know wala pa namang PhD in financial engineering. financial economics or finance ang meron.

for one, could you name me at least one phd in finance na nagtuturo sa ateneo na meron ng mga publications in international journals? sa la salle, isa pa lang, angelo unite with published articles in pacific basin journal of finance, among others.

having a teacher with work experience is good. kaso around the world, (check out the msfe of haas business school or at mathfin at carnegie mellon, touted best in the wold in this field) medyo talagang me kakayahan ang faculty nila kaya kaya nilang i-offer.

sa akin lang naman, sa buong pilipinas, wala pa namang me kaya. kahit na la salle. kaya akin lang, sana magjoin forces nalang silang 3 (ateneo, dlsu, up). nothing to lose. yun lang naman.

anyway, good luck sa mga pangarap mo.

[sum1]

BUMP

[rabbaddal]

I think you understood my post wrongly. In my first sentence I agreed w/ you that Phds should be given a priority and I've been consistent w/ that view.

Now, w/ regards to the qualifications of the adjuncts, there is a field in financial services that delves heavily into research and theory, normally w/ regards to equities, derivatives and portfolio management. Although these divisions are housed in investment banks, they are in no way to be confused w/ investment banking except for the fact that their output is used to support the proposals (otherwise known as "pitches") of investment bankers. And yes they do publish their work but only for internal purposes or the I-bank's clients since their output is considered confidential property of the bank w/c owns the copyright. That's why you don't read about them in textbooks and standard journals but they do exist. Some of the famous names among them that you may have heard are Leah Modigliani and Byron Wein both from Morgan Stanley. It's the people from these fields that I was referring to as potential adjuncts since they are well versed in both theory and practice.

Despite his impressive executive credentials, Gov. Buenaventura, from what you've described of him and from what I've known all along is a retail and merchant banker. He did work in ivestment banking but as I've said, investment banking is different from financial research even if both businesses are run by investment banks. The same goes for Sec. Camacho. I don't think they can teach FE not just bec. of theory but also because their professional work in investment banking did not expose them to such activity.

And yes, there are Phd programs both in finance and financial engineering.

My point is that you don't necessarily have to wait for Phds in the field before you launch a program because there simply aren't enough to come by so if you wait, you may end up never launching it. Besides, how can you expect to develop future Phds if you don't lay the groundwork for a formal program. The sad fact is that unlike other academic fields, finance/FE has a disadvantage in terms of cultivating talent for the academe simply bec. finance/FE grad students know they can get richer if they work in the private sector. That's why you'll never have enough of these professionals who will work 100% of the time in the academe. This is true in the US and will certianly be true in the Philippines. Hence, the need for adjuncts.

[Hannibal]

Just to add to the above discussion.....

I used to work in the financial engineering area of equity derivatives for many years. The investment bank I worked for accounted for approximately 9-10% of the total trading volume of the NYSE at the time. We were primarily involved in program trading. My group was comprised primarily of people with majors in Physics, Math, Chemistry, Mechanical Engineering, etc. I can't recall a single person who majored in economics.

I had two bosses: one had a background in Math and was a Harvard MBA; the other was a MIT Math summa cum laude (a genius who could perform complex math calculations inside his head, then quickly draw 3-dimensional graphs depicting the derivative equations). The rest of my colleagues had the following backgrounds: MIT mechanical engineering major; a Harvard graduate who majored in Government and Chemistry (note: this guy was also genius, a true geek; "Mathematica" was his bible); and an Indian guy from IIT with a background in plasma physics. I was the token Filipino.

My point is, many people who work in the financial engineering area, especially in equity derivatives (also in hedge funds), do not necessarily have specialist backgrounds in finance or FE. Perhaps, this is changing now that there are specific academic programs in FE.

The other "financial engineering" areas that are not as quantitative -- like M&A, asset securitization, debt/equity trading, etc. -- may require a different skill set. That's where you'll find MBAs, economists, etc. In optimization finance, for instance, many have backgrounds in law, taxation, etc., because most of the problems involve cross-border taxation, legal structures (eg tax havens). There are many economists in areas like economic, industry and country research, whereas MBAs dominate equity and bond research.

Regarding FE, from what I've heard about Ateneo's MS FE program, the Mathematics Department is closely involved in the development and design of the course, a process that began many years ago. I suspect that's the right way to do it, judging from practical experience.

And by the way, who knows? I may end up teaching in Ateneo someday. Former Dean Ruiz had been trying to convince me for many years. (However, for the sake of the students, I hope that never happens because I know I will be a terror and I will be hated by many. I have sadistic tendencies.):lol:

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Hannibal
Just to add to the above discussion.....

I used to work in the financial engineering area of equity derivatives for many years. The investment bank I worked for accounted for approximately 9-10% of the total trading volume of the NYSE at the time. We were primarily involved in program trading. My group was comprised primarily of people with majors in Physics, Math, Chemistry, Mechanical Engineering, etc. I can't recall a single person who majored in economics.

I had two bosses: one had a background in Math and was a Harvard MBA; the other was a MIT Math summa cum laude (a genius who could perform complex math calculations inside his head, then quickly draw 3-dimensional graphs depicting the derivative equations). The rest of my colleagues had the following backgrounds: MIT mechanical engineering major; a Harvard graduate who majored in Government and Chemistry (note: this guy was also genius, a true geek; "Mathematica" was his bible); and an Indian guy from IIT with a background in plasma physics. I was the token Filipino.

My point is, many people who work in the financial engineering area, especially in equity derivatives (also in hedge funds), do not necessarily have specialist backgrounds in finance or FE. Perhaps, this is changing now that there are specific academic programs in FE.

The other "financial engineering" areas that are not as quantitative -- like M&A, asset securitization, debt/equity trading, etc. -- may require a different skill set. That's where you'll find MBAs, economists, etc. In optimization finance, for instance, many have backgrounds in law, taxation, etc., because most of the problems involve cross-border taxation, legal structures (eg tax havens). There are many economists in areas like economic, industry and country research, whereas MBAs dominate equity and bond research.



The same is still true today and will most likely hold in the long-term. In addition to those w/ engineering and math backgounds, many FE practitioners came from diverse qualitative fields like psychology, political science, and literature and a job in FE, including teaching some of its subjects does not require expertise in economic theory. The purpose of academic FE programs that have been sprouting lately is to formalize the training of these practitioners so they can hit the ground running earlier. Part of the reason why it's offered at the masteral level so people from all undergrad fields can get the necessary training.

Terror teacher? I'm sure the students wouldn't really mind. Some of the best teachers were terrors. Ricky Lacson for one was a big...Never mind:)

[YFU'ER]

Originally posted by rabbaddal


I'd be more than willing if invited! But as far as I know, the school has very high standards when it comes to hiring adjunct professors even if they are sometimes short on faculty. The people they get such as Mrs. Victory, Victory and Oscar01 usually received top grades while in college so I doubt it if they will ever consider me for a job there except for mixing Victory's morning coffee.

How very modest of you. :) Di ba, Victory, Mrs. Victory and you took time to teach mini modules at Ateneo during your school break. According to Victory gratis pa and you guys had to pay your own way home because you have the Ateneo spirit or me toyo kayo sa utak. :D If it were me, I would be interning at an IBank to get the experience and start paying off the loan for grad school. Practical lang.

Is Victory going back to teach at Ateneo? Why? Don't get me wrong, I will be happy for the students but Ateneo did not pay for his grad school and therefore he does not owe anybody except himself and Mrs. Victory for their sacrifices. They can both land teaching jobs here in the States and reap the fruits of his labor. Same for you even if the financial industry is in doldrums right now.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by YFU'ER


How very modest of you. :) Di ba, Victory, Mrs. Victory and you took time to teach mini modules at Ateneo during your school break. According to Victory gratis pa and you guys had to pay your own way home because you have the Ateneo spirit or me toyo kayo sa utak. :D If it were me, I would be interning at an IBank to get the experience and start paying off the loan for grad school. Practical lang.

Is Victory going back to teach at Ateneo? Why? Don't get me wrong, I will be happy for the students but Ateneo did not pay for his grad school and therefore he does not owe anybody except himself and Mrs. Victory for their sacrifices. They can both land teaching jobs here in the States and reap the fruits of his labor. Same for you even if the financial industry is in doldrums right now.

It wasn't me who taught w/ the Victorys during school break.:) I think it was our classmate now working in Goldman Sachs who went with them. Yes it would be quite insane to pay for your own way home for a low paying teaching job but the Ateneo spirit knows no boundaries as was Victory's desire to teach Atenean boys how to find a genius wife who earns enough to pay for both the groceries and internet surfing time:lol:

I wouldn't mind teaching a class on "Portfolio Diversification: One Girl From Each Corner of the World". But seriously, the SOM's standards are so high that it would be easier for someone like me who didn't receive honors in college to save up and donate a classroom than to be invited to teach. Even when I was a student, our practitioner-teachers like Ricky Lacson, Joey Mendoza, JC Mercado and Jonathan Ng were the best and brightest in their class.

Interning in an I-Bank is an option but consulting is my preference. But in either field, the market is in the doldrums and with the Fed's decision yesterday not to cut interest rates any further, any hope for a quick improvement in the economy and the job market by the time I start looking for work next month is very unlikely.

[victory]

A more interesting policy question for you folks. If indeed the SOM's standards are "so high" that folks like rabbaddal are moved to "modestly" bow out of wanting to teach, should the SOM "lower" its standards given its willingness and capacity to pay?


posted by rabbaddal

Even when I was a student, our practitioner-teachers like Ricky Lacson, Joey Mendoza, JC Mercado and Jonathan Ng were the best and brightest in their class.

Does "best and brightest" in class mean "best and brightest" in practice or "best and brightest" in teaching?


It wasn't me who taught w/ the Victorys during school break. I think it was our classmate now working in Goldman Sachs who went with them.

As far as I know, it was only my wife and I who went back to AdMU to teach at our own expense. No one else. We did it not because of any fandangled notion of nobility or whatever else the Ateneo spirit might stand for. We did it because we loved being with our students and sharing what we could, purely and selfishly.

And because we could afford it.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by victory
Does "best and brightest" in class mean "best and brightest" in practice or "best and brightest" in teaching?


They were the best and brightest in class. They were also successful in their careers relative to their age. Whether or not they were good teachers is something left for their students to decide. I personally found them to be excellent teachers but someone smarter than me might have a different set of standards. Needless to say, then-chairperson Ms. Vistro explicitly told us students at that time just what it took to be part-time faculty and the primary criteria was academic performance plus the quality of work experience.

So to be more accurate, I didn't bow out of wanting to teach. The door was just shut for me. That's just the way it was.

[Ithacxa]

From Victory: "A more interesting policy question for you folks. If indeed the SOM's standards are "so high" that folks like rabbaddal are moved to "modestly" bow out of wanting to teach, should the SOM "lower" its standards given its willingness and capacity to pay?"

It isn't a lowering of standards at all. Given that many of our students want to have practical knowledge coming out of their courses, people who have actually worked in the corporate world and as entrepreneurs will be in the best position to provide this essential element to their education.

From rabbaddal: "the SOM's standards are so high that it would be easier for someone like me who didn't receive honors in college to save up and donate a classroom than to be invited to teach. "

Two points:

1. Victory, were you invited to teach by Mr. Ang? I wasn't. In fact, if you remember, I spoke to you about it and you facilitated my application then before you left. These days, most of the teachers actually apply rather than get invited to join the faculty. rabbaddal, is getting invited to teach crucial to your decision to teach? Won't you teach just because you weren't invited? Please don't get me wrong; I ask this question in all honesty and sincerity without wanting to sound sarcastic or what.

2. Your impressions are not quite accurate. A marketing part-timer named Albert Cuadrante didn't graduate with honors from ME, but he is one of the most beloved brand management teachers in the Marketing and Law Department. He was doing high-level brand management in P&G before he moved on to set up his own business. Even a friend of mine who's quite critical of teachers raves about him. In general, part-time teachers who do get accepted, get accepted on the basis of their work experience. This is true for all the deparments.

[victory]

posted by rabbaddal

But as far as I know, the school has very high standards when it comes to hiring adjunct professors even if they are sometimes short on faculty. The people they get such as Mrs. Victory, Victory and Oscar01 usually received top grades while in college so I doubt it if they will ever consider me for a job there except for mixing Victory's morning coffee.

So to be more accurate, I didn't bow out of wanting to teach. The door was just shut for me. That's just the way it was.

I was actually alluding to one very interesting implication of your train of thought: Your academic performance/potential as reflected in your grades/GMAT, and your work experience, were good enough to get you into Columbia's MBA program. Are the AdMU SOM's standards such that they would hire young people fresh from AdMU undergrad but not someone like you? Does this mean AdMU's College standards are higher than those of Columbia's MBA program?

I was on your side. Have a little faith in yourself. ;)


posted by Ithacxa

In fact, if you remember, I spoke to you about it and you facilitated my application then before you left.

Yes, I remember that phone conversation. Didn't you call from overseas?

A marketing part-timer named Albert Cuadrante didn't graduate with honors from ME, but he is one of the most beloved brand management teachers in the Marketing and Law Department.

Albert is cool. Following Ithacxa's train of thought, here's what might be an eye-opener for you, rabbaddal: One of the accounting teachers hired by the M.E. Department, not very "well liked" by students in fact (based on teaching evaluations) didn't exactly get high grades in his M.E. accounting courses. Also, one of the M.E. grads from Batch 1996 who ended up teaching actually got D's in his accounting courses under Darwin Yu (this one didn't teach in the M.E. department, though).

Standards? What standards? :lol:

Ithacxa: Bilis siguro ng Internet connection mo ngayon, ano? :)

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Ithacxa
rabbaddal, is getting invited to teach crucial to your decision to teach? Won't you teach just because you weren't invited? Please don't get me wrong; I ask this question in all honesty and sincerity without wanting to sound sarcastic or what.



Like I said, it was explicitly told to us that you’d have to be invited. For 5 years, I was in constant touch w/ the ME dept. since I was IBM’s recruitment and career rep to Ateneo, and Ms. Vistro, Darwin Yu, and Ma’am Grace (I was even supposed to teach Ms. Vistro data warehousing) were always updated on what I was doing so if they didn’t ask me to teach it means they didn’t think I was qualified vis-à-vis their standards and other alternatives. And yet, they can still manage to court alumni who have been living oceans and a decades away. So I don't think there was a need for me to ask to be invited. I guess it adds up.

Originally posted by Ithacxa
2. Your impressions are not quite accurate. A marketing part-timer named Albert Cuadrante didn't graduate with honors from ME, but he is one of the most beloved brand management teachers in the Marketing and Law Department. He was doing high-level brand management in P&G before he moved on to set up his own business. Even a friend of mine who's quite critical of teachers raves about him. In general, part-time teachers who do get accepted, get accepted on the basis of their work experience. This is true for all the deparments.

I also think that Alex did not get a 3.0 for his QPI. I’m not aware of his exact accomplishments when he was in school, but to be recruited into P&G’s brand management department probably means that he was more than just an average student.

Originally posted by victory


I was actually alluding to one very interesting implication of your train of thought: Your academic performance/potential as reflected in your grades/GMAT, and your work experience, were good enough to get you into Columbia's MBA program. Are the AdMU SOM's standards such that they would hire young people fresh from AdMU undergrad but not someone like you? Does this mean AdMU's College standards are higher than those of Columbia's MBA program?

I was on your side. Have a little faith in yourself. ;)



Would you believe that I actually think that Columbia, and IBM for that matter are a lot more flexible than the ME dept.? I couldn’t even get Darwin Yu to sign my recommendation letter bec. he didn’t think I stood out (note: he agreed that I was OK as a student, only that I was just average).

Originally posted by victory
here's what might be an eye-opener for you, rabbaddal: One of the accounting teachers hired by the M.E. Department, not very "well liked" by students in fact (based on teaching evaluations) didn't exactly get high grades in his M.E. accounting courses.

A result of a higher student population perhaps? BTW, how was his overall academic standing and work experience?

[Ithacxa]

From rabbaddal: "Like I said, it was explicitly told to us that you’d have to be invited. For 5 years, I was in constant touch w/ the ME dept. since I was IBM’s recruitment and career rep to Ateneo, and Ms. Vistro, Darwin Yu, and Ma’am Grace (I was even supposed to teach Ms. Vistro data warehousing) were always updated on what I was doing so if they didn’t ask me to teach it means they didn’t think I was qualified vis-à-vis their standards and other alternatives. And yet, they can still manage to court alumni who have been living oceans and a decades away. So I don't think there was a need for me to ask to be invited. I guess it adds up."


These days with the new setup and with the dramatic increase in the number of students that need to be taught by the SOM, all that anyone really has to do is to send in his/her resume and contact information. If his/her work experience is decent enough, he/she is usually invited for an interview and teaching demo, which is not too difficult to hurdle. I'd say around 1 out of every 2 applicants is accepted and given courses to teach part-time.

Of course, things are different for the new graduate who is accepted or rejected during the first part of the entire process (before interview and teaching demo) on the basis of his/her grades. Remember, the only gauge of potential for teaching success (whether rightly or wrongly considered) is their average QPI, because he/she has had no previous work experience.


Victory, s**t! Ang bilis ng internet dito, kahit na sobrang liblib ng lugar ko! I was downloading a 20 MB file in school, and it took me less than a minute to do it - I was shocked. Sa Manila, it would take at least 15 minutes, and that's on PLDT DSL.

[Hannibal]

There are a lot of changes in the Ateneo based on what I found out during last week's alumni reunion in the Bay Area.

1. There will be new courses to be offered starting next year such as: (note: there are others but these are the ones I remember)

a) BS Environmental Management, which is different from the BS Environmental Science course that's already being offered
b) BS Management of Technology Innovations
c) MS Management Information Systems
d) MS Mathematical Finance
e) BS Materials Engineering
f) BS Computer & Microelectronics Engineering

In engineering, the Ateneo will then have the following: ECE, Computer Engineering, Materials Engineering, and Computer & Microelectronics Engineering.

I think there's also a new course in Atmospheric Physics. A course in Environmental Engineering is also in the works.

2. Ateneo will be launching a P1 billion (minimum) fund campaign for its 150 anniversary.

3. Side note: There's really (not just a rumor) a Fil-Nigerian basketball player for Ateneo. However, I'm not sure when he'll start playing.

Things are looking good.

Animo Ateneo!
b2b@66

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Hannibal
There are a lot of changes in the Ateneo based on what I found out during last week's alumni reunion in the Bay Area.

1. There will be new courses to be offered starting next year such as: (note: there are others but these are the ones I remember)

a) BS Environmental Management, which is different from the BS Environmental Science course that's already being offered
b) BS Management of Technology Innovations
c) MS Management Information Systems
d) MS Mathematical Finance
e) BS Materials Engineering
f) BS Computer & Microelectronics Engineering

In engineering, the Ateneo will then have the following: ECE, Computer Engineering, Materials Engineering, and Computer & Microelectronics Engineering.

I think there's also a new course in Atmospheric Physics. A course in Environmental Engineering is also in the works.

2. Ateneo will be launching a P1 billion (minimum) fund campaign for its 150 anniversary.

3. Side note: There's really (not just a rumor) a Fil-Nigerian basketball player for Ateneo. However, I'm not sure when he'll start playing.

Things are looking good.

Animo Ateneo!
b2b@66

Fr. Caluag is also scheduled to grace our NYC reunion/victory party this Oct. 29 at the Philippine Center in 5th Ave. (7PM). He didn't mention Financial Engineering in his update? Rumor has it that some incident occurred in the West Coast reunion. I'm curious to know what it is in advance so we don't repeat it over here.

[Hannibal]

Originally posted by rabbaddal
Fr. Caluag is also scheduled to grace our NYC reunion/victory party this Oct. 29 at the Philippine Center in 5th Ave. (7PM). He didn't mention Financial Engineering in his update? Rumor has it that some incident occurred in the West Coast reunion. I'm curious to know what it is in advance so we don't repeat it over here.

What incident? Was this regarding the Northern California reunion or the Southern California one? I did not attend the latter, which was held just last night in San Pedro, CA.

In the Bay Area reunion, the organizers sent out email-invitations with the wrong date . The correct date of the event was Oct. 16th but the invitation stated Oct. 17th. Because of the confusion, for many (including myself) it was essentially same-day notification. I was just lucky to be in town on the 16th.

Despite the boo-boo, the event was well attended. There were representatives from the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, etc.

One observation - I noticed the women age much, much slower than the men. For example, there were women from the 1970s who looked like they were only in their late 20s. I think it must be the dim lighting in the room, the miracle of plastic surgery, or the alcohol. I already had three double vodka tonics at the time. As the saying goes, everybody looks good when it's last-call-for-alcohol time. :lol:

By the way, make sure to have a screen for the video/CD presentation. We didn't have one in the Northern California reunion. People had to improvise by using a large white table cloth.

Re Financial Engineering, I think the course will be called Mathematical Finance and it will be jointly handled by the Mathematics, Economics, and Management Engineering departments.

Have fun and keep us posted re the East Coast reunion.

Animo Ateneo!
b2b@66 :lily:

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Hannibal


What incident? Was this regarding the Northern California reunion or the Southern California one? I did not attend the latter, which was held just last night in San Pedro, CA.

In the Bay Area reunion, the organizers sent out email-invitations with the wrong date . The correct date of the event was Oct. 16th but the invitation stated Oct. 17th. Because of the confusion, for many (including myself) it was essentially same-day notification. I was just lucky to be in town on the 16th.

Despite the boo-boo, the event was well attended. There were representatives from the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, etc.

One observation - I noticed the women age much, much slower than the men. For example, there were women from the 1970s who looked like they were only in their late 20s. I think it must be the dim lighting in the room, the miracle of plastic surgery, or the alcohol. I already had three double vodka tonics at the time. As the saying goes, everybody looks good when it's last-call-for-alcohol time. :lol:

By the way, make sure to have a screen for the video/CD presentation. We didn't have one in the Northern California reunion. People had to improvise by using a large white table cloth.

Re Financial Engineering, I think the course will be called Mathematical Finance and it will be jointly handled by the Mathematics, Economics, and Management Engineering departments.

Have fun and keep us posted re the East Coast reunion.

Animo Ateneo!
b2b@66 :lily:

I'm not sure w/c specific incident as it was just chismis that I got from some of the senior alumni. I just want to avoid anything that could dampen the festive occasion. Right now, there is this alumnus that is giving us a headache by vocally objecting to the occasion. We want to publicly rebuke him but he happens to be a journalist in Reuters and we don't want any bad publicity from him.

Yes, even in this part of the US, the female alumni look like in their 20s. But do you know why? It's bec. they are in their 20s. :) We have a very large young alumni community here consisting of grads not only on the 90s but also the 2000s. Many are either grad students in Columbia, Fordham, or NYU or yuppies working in midtown or downtown Manhattan. Most of the young guns get together regularly on weekend night gimmicks or every 3rd Sunday mass at St. Malachy's Church. But as for me, I'm having my fill of my foreign classmates for now. It's nice to have some diversity once in a while.:)

[YFU'ER]

How come there is no Midwest Ateneo Alumni reunion? I believe Fr. Caluag is the second official of the Ateneo administration to grace the NY function. Jun Dalandan was present when the alumni reunion was held at the NY offices of the PNB.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by YFU'ER
How come there is no Midwest Ateneo Alumni reunion? I believe Fr. Caluag is the second official of the Ateneo administration to grace the NY function. Jun Dalandan was present when the alumni reunion was held at the NY offices of the PNB.

Send an e-mail to Jun Dalandan first to inquire whether or not there is a reunion. Maybe there is one coming up but you weren't in the loop as I almost was when Jun visited NYC. If there is none, then the first thing to be done is to gather and re-organize the alumni community as we have done over here. Have some simple events just to get everyone together and once there is a critical mass, you can expect Fr. Caluag to pay you guys a visit on his next trip. I would expect that there are a good number of Ateneans in the Chicago area. I know some in Michigan - Ryan Papa and a lady who works in Delphi Auto's Global Treasury Group.

[YFU'ER]

Originally posted by rabbaddal


Send an e-mail to Jun Dalandan first to inquire whether or not there is a reunion. Maybe there is one coming up but you weren't in the loop as I almost was when Jun visited NYC. If there is none, then the first thing to be done is to gather and re-organize the alumni community as we have done over here. Have some simple events just to get everyone together and once there is a critical mass, you can expect Fr. Caluag to pay you guys a visit on his next trip. I would expect that there are a good number of Ateneans in the Chicago area. I know some in Michigan - Ryan Papa and a lady who works in Delphi Auto's Global Treasury Group.

Off topic:

Rabbaddal,

I expect Jun Dalandan to always visit NY when he makes a trip to the states. He used to be the president of the NYC and tri-state alumni association when he lived in NY.

I also know of several Ateneans who live in the Detroit area. They attended grade school and high school in Ateneo before migrating to Michigan.

Do you know the e-mail address of Jun Dalandan? I have this fear of getting in touch with him because I know he will definitely hit me for a donation. The schools target is 1 billion pesos so he has to twist a lot of arms. So far I have eluded him.:D

You are correct about the critical mass. It is hard to get a group together when there is a very wide range of age group involved. Maybe there was a get together in the Chicago area but I am not plugged in to the right group.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by YFU'ER


Off topic:

Rabbaddal,

I expect Jun Dalandan to always visit NY when he makes a trip to the states. He used to be the president of the NYC and tri-state alumni association when he lived in NY.

I also know of several Ateneans who live in the Detroit area. They attended grade school and high school in Ateneo before migrating to Michigan.

Do you know the e-mail address of Jun Dalandan? I have this fear of getting in touch with him because I know he will definitely hit me for a donation. The schools target is 1 billion pesos so he has to twist a lot of arms. So far I have eluded him.:D

You are correct about the critical mass. It is hard to get a group together when there is a very wide range of age group involved. Maybe there was a get together in the Chicago area but I am not plugged in to the right group.

E-mail Jun at the alumni office: alumni@admu.edu.ph

As for events, no need for anything fancy. Over here, the young alumni started w/ a get together in a bar, followed by a picnic in Central Park, and most recently a mass for the entire Ateneo community in New York. But one key thing to remember is visibility. Bring a digital camera and make sure to e-mail Jun or Fr. Caluag the photos so they know there's something going on.

[qtkeri]

Originally posted by Hannibal
There are a lot of changes in the Ateneo based on what I found out during last week's alumni reunion in the Bay Area.

1. There will be new courses to be offered starting next year such as: (note: there are others but these are the ones I remember)

a) BS Environmental Management, which is different from the BS Environmental Science course that's already being offered
b) BS Management of Technology Innovations
c) MS Management Information Systems
d) MS Mathematical Finance
e) BS Materials Engineering
f) BS Computer & Microelectronics Engineering

In engineering, the Ateneo will then have the following: ECE, Computer Engineering, Materials Engineering, and Computer & Microelectronics Engineering.

I think there's also a new course in Atmospheric Physics. A course in Environmental Engineering is also in the works.

2. Ateneo will be launching a P1 billion (minimum) fund campaign for its 150 anniversary.

3. Side note: There's really (not just a rumor) a Fil-Nigerian basketball player for Ateneo. However, I'm not sure when he'll start playing.

Things are looking good.

Animo Ateneo!
b2b@66



Sounds cool. Will these courses be really offered next year? (2003'-2004' SY) What are the other courses?

I really do not know, as of now, if the School of Medicine will be launched also next year.

Other info: Ph.d in Economics, MS Environmental Science are already offered in Loyola Campus.

PAASCU level 4 accreditation application for Ateneo in January, 2003.

Library is open from 7:30 am to 9 PM except Saturdays. Sundays not yet except for the last four Sundays of the semester (half days).

Sports: Ateneo will host UAAP Season 66, in time for a newly renovated Blue Eagle Gym.


When is the 150th anniversary of Ateneo?


Changes that should be applied in the near future(for me):

-More parking spaces outside Ateneo. More dorms for students , a dorm exclusive for grad students.
-No 7:30 am classes for college to minimize traffic
-Night classes for other graduate courses (6 to 9 PM) should be implemented for working students
-The library ID scanning system should work
- More gates should be created: exit to Katipunan or Barangka if it's really possible
- Is it possible to hold class starting 6 AM ? (Again to minimize traffic and other reasons)
- More student job opportunities inside campus, a placement office also for graduate students NOT just for college students.

[Invincible]

Any news from the reunion in New York yesterday? What are the latest developments?

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Invincible
Any news from the reunion in New York yesterday? What are the latest developments?

It was a huge success. Kalayaan Hall in 5th Ave. was jampacked with alumni - both young and old. An alumni band and cheering squad performed. VCDs of Games 1, 2 and 3 were sold along w/ raffle tickets. Fr. Caluag gave an update on the changes in Ateneo, which is like what hannibal posted. I even have a copy of his presentation charts since my laptop was used as backup. What was amazing w/ the attendance was that it was in the middle of a busy work and school week. Professionals from downtown Wall St., midtown 6th Ave., and grad students from NYU, Columbia, and even as far uptown as Fordham took time off for this event. We're looking forward to more of these events in the future.

[rabbaddal]

A Tribute to Ateneo Heroes

on Saturday, the 23rd of November 2002,
starting at 8:30 in the morning,
at the Loyola Heights Campus.

Please confirm your attendance on or before
November 18, 2002 by replying to alumni@admu.edu.ph
or by calling 426*6001 (Jeng ext. 4083 or Mercy ext. 4084).

Attire: Smart Casual

Programme

8:30 a.m. Opening of the War Memorial Exhibit
venue: Sacred Heart Hill

10:00 a.m. Television Documentary on the Battle of Bataan and Corregidor
Talk by Dr. Ricardo Jose
venue: Col. Mariano Yenko AV Room, Moro Lorenzo Sports Center

3:00 p.m. Holy Mass
venue: Church of the Gesù

4:00 p.m. Program
venue: Sacred Heart Hill
venue: Bellarmine Field

[Exterminator]

I found this in atenista.net.

Ateneo School of Medicine


--------------------------START OF QUOTE----------------------------------

THE MEDICAL CITY

Address: San Miguel Avenue corner Lourdes Road, Ortigas Office Complex, Mandaluyong City
Person in Charge of Internship: ELIZABETH L. PALMERO-REYES,M.D., CHAIRPERSON
Telephone Number: 6318626 local 623 Fax No.: 635-5756 (Telefax)
E-mail No.: mails@medicalcity.com.ph


GENERAL INFORMATION

General Description of the Hospital/Institution

Type: Private, Proprietary

The Medical City is now the fourth largest tertiary care hospital in the country. Growth has made it taller and wider. The construction of its new home in the Meralco compound is in full swing, the transitions from 474-bed capacity to 700-bed facility already in progress.

The Hospital is driven by a vision of premier health facility that employs cutting-edge technology. Provides world-class quality care, mirrors national and global healthcare trends.

More academic opportunities will open once the Ateneo School of Medicine and Public Health becomes a teaching arm of the New-Medical City. Professional staff and support personnel work hand-in-hand in providing tertiary care.

Brief Description of the Catchment Community

The Hospital is desirous of providing its Interns opportunity to encounter a variety of patients and a variety of diagnostic and treatment methods in community setting. The Medical City has entered an agreement with Maybunga Pasig Health Center.

Maybunga Pasig Health Center is a government medical institution with address at Dr. Sixto Antonio, Maybunga, Pasig City. The Interns shall assist in giving medical care to patients at the OPD and help in the Immunization Campaign, Family Planning and other Community Health Care Programs of the Health Center.


INTERNSHIP PROGRAM

Type of Internship: ROTATING

Number of Intern Positions: 30


Rotations and Affiliations

I. Medicine 8 weeks / 2 months
II. OB-Gynecology 8 weeks / 2 months
III. Pediatrics 8 weeks / 2 months
1. Ward
2. Nursery/Neonatal Intensive Care Unit
3. Emergency Room
4. Out Patient Service
IV. Surgery 8 weeks / 2 months
V. Ophthalmology 2 weeks
1. Out Patient Service
2. Emergency
VI. Otolaryngology 2 weeks
1. Operating Room
2. Emergency Room
3. Wards
4. Out-Patient Services ¡V to include Voice Laboratory
VII. Psychiatry 2 weeks
VIII. Radiology weeks
IX. Emergency 4 weeks / 1 month
Community Medicine 4 weeks / 1 month


Learning Activities

Hospital Wide
„X Interns¡¦ Hour ¡V every Wednesday (Each Department is required to give 3 lecture topics)
„X Medicine Tumor Board ¡V every 2nd Thursday of the Month
„X OB-GYN Tumor Board Case Conference ¡V Quarterly
„X Weekly Surgery Audit ¡V every Tuesday
„X Medicine Grand Rounds ¡V Monthly
„X Pediatric Interns¡¦ Grand Rounds ¡V every 2 months, last Wednesday of the month
„X Surgical Grand Rounds (Preop & post op conference) ¡V every Tuesday
„X Surgical Panel Discussion ¡V quarterly
„X Surgical Tumor Board Meeting ¡V every other month
„X Subspecialty conference ¡V monthly (TCUS, Urology, Ortho, Neurosurgery)
„X Journal Club ¡V every other month
„X ENT Post Graduate Course ¡V once a year

Note: Residents and Interns are encouraged to attend all symposiums, conferences, interesting case contests and conventions.

Departments/Services

1. Department of Medicine
1.1.1. Intern¡¦s Grand Rounds ¡V 2 cases for the whole rotation (1 case/month)
1.1.2. Endorsement ¡V Daily
1.1.3. Resident¡¦s Grand Rounds ¡V every Thursday
1.1.4. Mortality and Morbidity ¡V once a month
1.1.5. Subspecialty Conferences
1.1.6. Pulmonology ¡V every 1st & 3rd Tuesday of the month
1.1.7. Cardiology ¡V every 2nd & 4th Wednesday of the month
1.1.8. Endocrinology ¡V every 1st & 3rd Wednesday of the month
1.1.9. Infectious Diseases ¡V every 2nd & 4th Tuesday of the month
1.1.10. Gastroenterology ¡V every 1st & 3rd Thursday of the month
1.1.11. Nephrology ¡V 2 conferences in a month
1.1.12. Harrison¡¦s Club ¡V thrice per week; every Mondays, Wednesdays & Fridays

2. Department of OB-Gynecology
2.1.1. Interns¡¦ Lecture ¡V weekly; Thursday
2.1.2. Case Discussion ¡V weekly; Thursdays
2.1.3. Grand Rounds ¡V monthly; 3rd Friday of the month
2.1.4. Audit ¡V monthly; 3rd Friday of the month
2.1.5. PentaMedical Group of Hospital Conferences ¡V weekly; Mondays
2.1.6. PentaMed Operasyon Bukol Preop Conference ¡V Mondays of July & August
2.1.7. Short quizzes ¡V weekly
2.1.8. Perinatology Lecture ¡V Monthly
2.1.9. Small Group Discussion ¡V weekly
2.2. Services
2.2.1. Ultrasound with Color Doppler Studies
2.2.2. Colposcopy
2.2.3. Hysteroscopy
2.2.4. Pelvic Laparoscopy
2.2.5. Womens¡¦s Health Care Clinic Research Center for Menopause
2.2.6. Perinatology, Gynecologic Oncology, Endocrinology and Infertility
2.2.7. Trophoblastic Diseases
3. Department of Pediatrics
3.1.1. Endorsement Rounds with Residents ¡V daily
3.1.2. Teaching Rounds with Consultants ¡V once a week
3.1.3. Teaching Rounds with Residents ¡V once a week
3.1.4. Intern¡¦s Lecture ¡V one lecture per intern
3.1.5. Grand Rounds ¡V every 2 months; Last Wednesday of Rotation
3.1.6. Care Conferences
3.1.7. Grand Rounds
3.1.8. Monthly Audit of Residents
3.1.9. FIRST

4. Department of Surgery
4.1.1. Grand Rounds ¡V weekly
4.1.2. Training Officers Rounds ¡V weekly
4.1.3. Subspecialty Conferences/Lectures ¡V monthly
4.1.4. ThoracicCardiovascular ¡V once every 1st week of the month
4.1.5. Urology ¡V once every 2nd week of the month
4.1.6. Ortho ¡V once every 3rd week of the month
4.1.7. Neurosurgery ¡V once every 4th week of the month
4.1.8. Surgical Grand Rounds ¡V weekly
4.1.9. Journal Club ¡V every other month
4.1.10. General Surgery Panel Discussion ¡V Quarterly

5. Department of Ophthalmology
5.1.1. Staff Conference ¡V twice a month; 1st & 3rd Wednesday of the month
5.1.2. Glaucoma Hour ¡V once a week; Thursdays
5.1.3. Retina Hour ¡V once a week; Fridays

6. Department of Otolaryngology
6.1.1. Grand Rounds ¡V weekly; Tuesdays
6.1.2. Audit/ Mortality-Morbidity Conference ¡V once a month; Tuesdays
6.1.3. Journal Club and Quiz ¡V once a week; Wednesdays

7. Department of Psychiatry
7.1.1. Grand Rounds ¡V once a month
7.1.2. Consultation Liaison Conference ¡V once a month
7.1.3. New Case Hour ¡V once a week
7.1.4. Outpatient Case Hour ¡V once a week
7.1.5. Group Therapy ¡V twice a week
7.1.6. All scheduled Didactics

8. Department of Radiology
8.1.1Resident¡¦s Lecture ¡V thrice a week

Requirements for Completion

Hospital Wide

„X Interns should not incur absences of more than 10% or 36 days for the duration of his/her one-year Internship Program. Otherwise, an Intern shall be automatically dropped from the roll.

„X Completion of make-up for all Deficiencies.

„X Intern must obtain a ¡¥PASSED GRADE¡¦ in all Departments comprising the program.

„X Satisfactory completion of 12 months rotating internship as certified by both Resident and Consultant Interns¡¦ Monitors and the Committee on the Internship Training Program.

„X Clearance from the different Medical and non-medical division.


LEARNING RESOURCES

Profile of Human Resources

N U M B E R
DEPARTMENT Consultants Fellows/Diplomates Residents

Anesthesia 36 / 30 5
ENT 30 30 / 30 6
Medicine 131 103 / 129 16
OB-GYN 98 75 / 98 17
Ophthalmology 45 / 44 5
- No Phil. Academy of Ophtha formal status of Fellow; only Diplomate and regular members.

Pediatrics 54 9 / 54 17
Psychiatry 23 15 / 20 6
Radiology 10 / 10 8
Ultrasound Society 9
CT MRI Society 8
Phil. Radiation Oncology 3
Vascular & Interventional Radiology 4
Surgery 109 92 / 106 12


Clinical Materials 2000.

Total Beds = 474
Private 399
Service (OB-15, Surgery ¡V 4, ENT ¡V 11)
Bassinets 75

Admissions : = 28,840

Discharges 28,820

OPD Consultations
ENT = 4,942
OB-GYN = 1,800
Ophthalmology = 4,693
Medicine = 31,473 patients seen at ER
Pediatrics = 655;
ER ¡V Pedia section = 18, 422
Psychiatry = 193
Surgery = 11,092 patients seen at ER

Surgeries
Surgery Ophtha ENT OB-GYN TOTAL
Major 1,010 1,062 178 2,136 4,386
Medium 1,072 247 1,319
Minor 2,286 55 454 1,496 4,291

Deliveries 2,410

D & C 1,021 (Fractional, completion, Suction)

Autopsies 3


Teaching-Learning Resources

Library: The Central Library is located at the 4th Floor, Hospital Bldg.
References: Books & Journals, Magazine
CD¡¦s (MEDLINE, Herdin, Pediatric Review
Program, OVID, others)

Computers: 2 Terminals for Internet
1 Terminal for Typing & with CD-ROM
Conference Rooms and A-V Equipment
Conference Rooms: at the Library and at 5th Floor Board Room
Equipment:
Multimedia Projector ¡V 4 in 1 (Opaque, Overhead, LCD, etc.); Digital Camera
Slide Projector
Negatoscope


AMENITIES

Quarters:Male Interns ¡V 3rd Floor
Female Interns ¡V 4th Floor
Canteen ¡V Basement[/i]
-------------------------END OF QUOTE----------------------------

[rabbaddal]

All Ateneo Alumni in the NY/NJ Tri-State area are invited to celebrate & support alumnus Luis Francia's award at the Asia Society on Mon., Dec.2, 7-9PM. Luis has won the award for his semi-autobiographical book "Eye of the Fish: A Personal Archipelago". His prolific writings and his other professional undertakings provide a much-needed voice for Filipino-Americans. Details are below...

5th Annual Asian American Literary Awards Ceremony!

Presented in cooperation with Asia Society, this year's ceremony features readings by award winners Alexander Chee, Christina Chiu, and Luis Francia, and an opportunity to meet with the winners during a post-awards booksigning reception.

Monday, December 2, 2002, 7 PM

@ Asia Society and Museum
725 Park Avenue
New York City

Tickets: $15 general/$10 students and AAWW members. To reserve tickets by phone, please call 212-494-0061 with a valid credit
card.

For more information, visit The Asian American Writers' Workshop's website at http://www.aaww.org.

[KuyaDanny]

Originally posted by rabbaddal


The people they get such as Mrs. Victory, Victory and Oscar01 usually received top grades while in college so I doubt it if they will ever consider me for a job there except for mixing Victory's morning coffee.

If victory ever teaches there again and rabbadal mixes his morning coffee, I will mix afternoon coffee for the both of them. No charge. :lol:

[rabbaddal]

For those who are interested to know what happened during the East Coast reunion, pictures can be viewed at the newly-posted Ateneo Alumni Association of New York & the Tri-State area online photo album. Please visit the website at:

Ateneo New York Online Photos (http://ateneonewyork.tripod.com)

For those who saw the first posting, the site has been updated with more photos. Feel free to re-visit it.

[rabbaddal]

Members of the Ateneo U.S. East Coast community marched along 5th Avenue to represent both county and alma mater during the Philippine Independence Day Parade last June 1. The flags of the Ateneo, the Republic of the Philippines, and the United States were proudly waived at the head of the blue delegation during the march.

Pictures from the event can be viewed in the following website:

Philippine Independence Day Parade - New York (http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b33c8235a4a9)

[rabbaddal]

The Office of Planning and Development & Alumni Affairs
is proud to announce a new service for Ateneo de Manila
alumni: BLUE BALITA!

You can now receive alumni news, invitations and information through your cellphone (for Globe / Touch Mobile and Smart / Talk N¹ Text subscribers only). To subscribe to BLUE BALITA, send AMDG to 326 (Smart / Talk N¹ Text) or 2978 (Globe / Touch Mobile). Once subscribed, you will automatically receive news messages that the Alumni Affairs Office will send.

Subscribe to BLUE BALITA now! Spread the word and tell all your alumni friends!

Each message that you will receive from this service will cost you
Php 2.50 for Smart (post paid and prepaid), Talk N Text, Globe (prepaid) and Touch Mobile. For Globe (postpaid) it costs P2.00 per message.

You may unsubscribe anytime by sending AMDG QUIT to
326 (Smart / Talk N¹ Text) or 2978 (Globe / Touch Mobile).

[badbreath]

you know... why dont they just WIPE out some filipino, english and theo classes (marriage) while preserving the philo classes. you'll learn much english through them din naman eh. Or they could have merged philosophy of morality and theology of liberation. diba?! what do u guys think?!?!

[Oscar01]

they could have merged philosophy of morality and theology of liberation. diba?!
Those are two very different subjects. The latter, for example, deals with social justice in the context of church teaching, and has your immersion program. I doubt you'd want to take your Senior year Philosophy purely from that angle, especially if you aren't Catholic.

[rabbaddal]

Message from the office of Fr. Nebres, SJ:

We express our fullest support for Chief Justice Davide. When Ateneo de Manila gave him an honorary degree in 2001, we honored him

for his exemplary and outstanding career in public service in
all three branches of government,

for his example of unwavering integrity, deep faith, and
courageous love of our people,

for his towering leadership as Presiding Officer of the Impeachment Court from December 7, 2000 to January 16, 2001, and

for his decisive leadership on behalf of our people and our Constitution during People Power II.

We honor him even more today, at a time of gravest crisis of confidence in leadership in our nation. He stands as a bulwark of truth, integrity and courage in a time when we see only expediency and narrow interests in so many of our other leaders.

To the congressmen who signed the impeachment letter, we express our profound outrage. In seeking to discredit the Chief Justice, who has the fullest admiration of our nation, and to dishonor the Supreme Court, which has had the courage to make decisions for the good of our nation above the interests of powerful people and groups we say that you have only dishonored yourselves. By this act, you have added your names to the annals of infamy in the history of the House of Representatives.

To the Ateneo Community, this is another defining moment in the life of our nation. It is a time that calls us to stand up and be counted and be on the side of truth, integrity, courage and for the future of our country and our people. We stood and marched together in EDSA 1, again in EDSA 2 and in many other defining moments in the life of our nation. In this moment of crisis for the soul of our nation, let us stand up and be together once more. Let us give our fullest support to Chief Justice Davide. Let us send the message in no uncertain terms to Congress and Senate that we will not tolerate their shallow reasons and that we see their narrow and selfish interests.

Let us join President Cory in her march to Congress today and heed her call today and in the days to come.

This is for the future of our country and the future of our people.


Mary for you, for your white and blue
We pray you'll keep us, Mary, constantly true
We pray you'll keep us, Mary, faithful to you.

[christy_116]

i think this change is good... to much philo and theo makes an atenean too medieval... one has to learn to change with the changing times... otherwise, no improvement will happen...:p

[atenista_comm]

The Official Stand of the Sanggunian on the Davide Case

Chief Justice Hilario Davide says it himself, Congress, especially the Lower House, should never allow itself to be an instrument of destruction of our democratic institutions. It should, as a matter of fact, be the first to preserve it. The last bulwark of democracy, the guardian of the Constitution, the guardian of the rule of law, is the judiciary."

We have not even fully recovered from the after effects of the mutiny last July yet here again is another attempt to shake the very foundations of Philippine democracy in exchange for obvious political concessions. This time, however, the attack is as low as it can get.

The assault on the integrity of the Chief Justice is the ultimate manifestation that this country is in dire need of a miracle to change, if not entirely rid itself, of imprudent politicians and their skewed interests. What is happening now in the government is clearly a political harassment. While the move of the 87 Congresspersons itself is already contentious, the fast-tracking of the case by its automatic transfer to the Senate is even more suspicious.

The Chief Justice is the only acceptable symbol of integrity that the government has. As Fr. Ben Nebres puts it himself, his exemplary and outstanding career in public service in all three branches of government, his example of unwavering integrity, deep faith, and courageous love of our people, his towering leadership as Presiding Officer of the Impeachment Court from December 7, 2000 to January 16, 2001, and his decisive leadership on behalf of our people and our Constitution during People Power II are all manifestations that the Chief Justice is untainted by any professional malice and should be spared of any comparison with the otherwise rotten system of all the three branches in the government.

To attempt to impeach a righteous man who did nothing but to protect this countrys democracy is to harm the Filipino people and to sabotage the legal system.

As youth of this country, we cannot let this political crisis just happen before our eyes. This ill-motivated political harassment being done by these imprudent legislators during a time when the political situation of the country is highly volatile is very shameful, given that expedient political interests are extremely apparent.

As future standard-bearers of this country, we have all the right and obligation to protect its democracy. When the only symbol of hope for this country is being audaciously attacked by politicians obviously working for their own interests, we cannot help but be disheartened by the people who keep on misrepresenting us in the government and altogether lose hope in the kind of leaders that this country have.

This blow is at the lowest that it can get. We are now truly frustrated and dispirited with the kind of political aggravation that our public officials do without end. And until we see that this government is still worthy of our respect, we will remain watchful of our public officials every step.

Sanggunian ng mga Mag-aaral ng Ateneo de Manila

[rabbaddal]

Everyone is invited to the following
FIRST FRIDAY activities
at the Church of the Gesù on
07 November 2003

HOLY HOUR
5:00 PM
Sacred Heart Chapel (side chapel)

FIRST FRIDAY MASS
6:00 PM
Presider and Homilist: Rev. Fr. Adolfo Dacanay, SJ
Choir: Ateneo College Ministry Group


The Catholic Bishops Conference (CBCP) has asked that all parish churches, chapels and oratories all over the country offer a special Mass and a holy hour each first Friday of the month, for nine consecutive first Fridays, from November 7 2003 to July 2 2004. These Nine First Fridays will be offered for the sanctification of priests and the renewal of Christian life.

“It is our hope and prayer that our nationwide consecration to the Sacred Heart of Jesus may turn our desires and efforts toward much-needed changes, and may motivate us to resolute and courageous action to bring a genuine renewal into our lives and into the society around us.”
[CBCP, 01 Sept. 2003]

[rabbaddal]

All concerned citizens from within and outside of the Ateneo community are invited to join this protest.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Monday, November 10, Congress is scheduled to transmit the Articles of Impeachment against Chief Justice Davide to the Senate.

Ateneo de Manila University has made a stand against the impeachment.

The Ateneo shall join the protest movement that will march to Congress on Monday to send a strong message that we disapprove Congress' intention to pursue impeachment charges against Chief Justice Davide .

Details of the protest movement are as follows:

Meeting point venue: St. Peter's Cathedral Commonwealth, Quezon City (after Ever Gotesco)

Time: 1 pm on November 10

Attire: Wear black

For those coming from Katipunan, meeting time will be at 11:30 AM in Bellarmine Hall, Ateneo. The Ateneo group will be identified by the Ateneo flag.

Please bring extra sandwhiches and water for our other brothers and sisters joining us in support of CJ Davide. Students and alumni from other schools, farmers, workers, and other sectoral groups will be there as well. Please send food donations to Ophalle of the Office of Social Concern & Involvement at Room 102, Bellarmine Bldg. Cash or check donations (payable to: Ateneo de Manila University, ref. Nov. 10 Rally) may be sent to Office of Planning & Development & Alumni Affairs, Ateneo de Manila University, Rm. 213, Xavier Hall, Loyola Heights, QC. attn: C. Marfori.

For inquiries or for coordination, contact Edsel M. Ramirez ( National Development Cluster, Ateneo Alumni Association) at 0917-5255487 or ramirez@i-manila.com.ph.

We encourage you to pass this information on to your family, friends and colleagues.

[Exterminator]

New Double Major Program Starting SY 2004-2005: B. S. Chemistry/ B. S. Materials Science and Engineering

By: Erwin P. Enriquez, Ph.D


Motivated by rapid advances in the technological applications and daily uses of materials--metals, ceramics, polymers, composites, and electronic materials -- the Departments of Chemistry and Physics of the Loyola School of Science and Engineering will now offer the 5-year Double Major Programs: B.S. Chemistry/B.S. Materials Science and Engineering and B.S. Physics/B.S. Materials Science and Engineering. The two programs have curricula that will imbue a future materials scientist and engineer with sound foundation in the fundamentals of materials properties and design: structure, properties, processing, and performance of materials.

There is increasing need for trained materials scientists and engineers in the country. The reason is to supply the manpower requirements of the high-tech industries in semiconductor packaging, and also to supply the current demands of local companies who are gearing up for more globally competitive products (e. g., paints and coatings, packaging, food, and others). The Department of Science and Technology has long recognized the strategic importance of advanced materials research in the country’s S&T development, and thus a Materials Science Sector is one of its priority areas. Two sub-sectors formed were focused on (1) electronic materials and (2) polymers. Presently, the essential manpower for the said pursuits comes mainly from the various science and engineering departments in the country, but very few trained directly with a materials degree. So far, only the University of the Philippines College of Science and College of Engineering offer MSE degree programs, previously only in the master’s and doctoral level, and more recently, a bachelor's program. Furthermore, with the rapidly emerging field of nanotechnology, a new kind of training program is essential for the future engineers, one that is strongly founded on the molecular-level understanding of materials and future devices; and this type of training naturally stems from the basic sciences such as Chemistry and Physics.

The Ateneo de Manila University-Loyola Schools is envisioned to play a significant role in both manpower development and research in this important area. Research-wise, the Department of Chemistry is already active in the area of polymers where faculty expertise and research facilities are available. State-of-the-art equipment in the Polymer Laboratory for general polymer research and characterization are available, and funded projects are being undertaken involving developing materials applications using abundant, indigenous resources of the country and problems identified from industry linkages of the department. The Ateneo Physics Department and the Electronics and Communications Engineering Program are also already keyed to contribute to the electronics and telecommunications industry via the Materials and Photonics Laboratories of Physics, and the ECCE labs.

The new B.S. MSE Program shall be offered through a ladder, 5th year program from either a B.S. Chemistry or Physics 4-year program. This scheme should provide the necessary skills needed in the analysis, design, and production of materials that will supply the needs of the local and multinational companies in the country (e.g., electronics materials, semiconductors, ceramics, sensors, the plastics and rubber industry, cement and concrete, packaging, etc.).

An MSE program coming from a Science background at the Ateneo -- with its liberal arts setting and a Jesuit tradition of service and excellence -- will be particularly unique in defining the total training of the materials scientists and engineers. In a published survey of managers and project specialists, it was found that the major cause for project conflict in industry is not really the lack of technical expertise but rather attributed to the following: (1) goals-priority definition, (2) personality, and (3) communication. These are traits that have been strongly built into an Ateneo education.

Materials Science and Engineering is a relatively new field, in the sense that it was only roughly around the 1960’s, for example, when a departmental degree program concerned with “interdisciplinary” study of materials was started in the U.S. In history, materials, in the form of hunting weapons and other paraphernalia, were already in existence even prior to the Bronze Age. It was in the recent years, after the first wave of industrial revolution, when a more systematic study of materials was pushed through. With the current wave of computer and information technology come the design, engineering, and study of materials that reaches down to the sub-micron or nanometer scale (nanotechnology). Thus, the archaic training grounds of metallurgical and ceramics engineers are now replaced by a more encompassing field of Materials Science and Engineering. The materials engineers are concerned not only with developing and improving materials properties, but also in being able to design, tailor and process these materials with more specific and specialized end uses.

The design of an appropriate curriculum for an MSE program remains to be a challenge. What is clear, however, is that the MSE program is a very interdisciplinary field encompassing the natural sciences and engineering (Figure 1). An example is the Higher School of Materials Sciences (HSMS) curriculum, which was developed at the Lomonosov Moscow State University. It served as a “model of interdisciplinarity” that aimed to “educate a new generation of materials researchers who would not be just specialists, but generalists with practical experience as well as excellent basic-science background.” This program was formed without the conventional engineering departments in metallurgy, polymers or ceramics, but rather drew from the expertise available from the chemistry, mathematics, physics, and computer sciences departments. Likewise, in many universities abroad, a typical materials and engineering department draw its faculty pool from the various departments: mathematics, physics, chemistry, engineering, and others. The Ateneo program, building on its strengths in semiconductor and electronics materials and polymers will follow these examples; the program draws its faculty from the current expertise available in the School of Science and Engineering Departments.

The 5-year B. S. Materials Science & Engineering Program aims to train materials scientists and engineers suited for work settings that involve or relate to any of the basic materials -- metals, plastics, ceramics, composites, emulsions, semiconductors, and others: manufacturing, process operation and control, materials evaluation and analysis, technical management, sales, and marketing, education and training, or research and development.

[rabbaddal]

Location ot Learning Links Center was not provided. Please contact the e-mail address below.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LEARNING LINKS, an NGO that assists street kids and at-risk children through alternative learning opportunities and mentorship programs, has helped reduce the number of street children along Katipunan by more than 75%. The organization is currently recruiting Ateneo alumni who are willing to devote around three hours per week to its 2004 programs.

There will be an orientation for potential volunteers on January 31 at 9 a.m. at the Learning Links Center. Please confirm your attendance by sending an email to learninglinks@hotmail.com

[Exterminator]

http://www.philstar.com/philstar/Lifestyle200402139710.htm


Dean Rudy Ang: Educating future men for others

YAHOO By Stephanie Tanyu Coyiuto
The Philippine STAR 02/13/2004


For many young people, there are so many decisions to make – for the high school student, the question: Which school should I go to? looms in his mind. For the college student, the question "what job will I be able to get?" is probably what keeps him awake at night. Rodolfo "Rudy" Ang, certainly no stranger to making choices like these, has long been giving advice to students about which paths in life to take.

Rudy Ang who was recently appointed as Dean of Ateneo de Manila’s John Gokongwei School of Management (JGSOM), has by no means led a conventional life. A scholar since his grade school days, Rudy holds an MBA from Boston College (which he completed as Class Valedictorian) as well as a double major in Business Management Honors and Communication Arts from the Ateneo (from which he graduated with Magna Cum Laude and departmental honors). He also practices what he preaches: As managing director of a company of which he was a founding member, he is in charge of several enterprises, spanning food retail and franchise management, real estate and education.

Rudy envisions the JGSOM as a center for excellence in business education in the region. Recognizing the need for changes that must be implemented to realize this vision, he has pioneered various programs such as the School of Management Business Accelerator (SOMBA), Junior Term Abroad Program, hosting of the Asia-Europe Foundation (ASEF) University, the Family Business Breakfast Roundtable, and the Business Leadership Forum.

Here Rudy talks more about his plans and the challenges he faces as the Dean of the JGSOM.

Why did you decide to enter the education sector?

I wasn’t planning to. I was originally a Communication Arts major. Then I was told that I might not earn enough to make a living. So I took Management, fully intending to go into business. But I was invited to join the faculty by the chairman of the Management Department then. I was told that since I was young, I should not be in a hurry to make my first million pesos; that there’ll be time enough to make money in the future. Why don’t I do some service work first? So I said, "Okay, that sounds reasonable. I’d teach for two years before I worked at something maybe more lucrative." But God works in strange ways. It’s been 20 years now and I’m still here. I started teaching full time in Xavier School and part-time for Ateneo. Eventually I resigned from Xavier and came here to Ateneo to teach full time.

What are the strongest qualities of the Ateneo JGSOM?

First, I think we’re very lucky that we’re able to attract a lot of the best raw material. Some of the very best high school graduates come here. If you have really good students coming in – naturally, you have greater chances of having good output product. But one of the most important things we have here is our focus on values formation that distinguishes us from schools that focus only on skills and techniques. Sometimes other people criticize us and say that we don’t teach enough technical courses. But our feeling is – if we had to give up more of the formative courses to put in more technical courses, we’d rather not have those additional technical courses. Techniques can be learned on the job, but the formation of the person is much more important. This is a great strength I feel that we have.

How would you compare it to DLSU, UP and other schools’ business programs?

With UP, the contrast is very obvious. There is no spiritual formation in the UP curriculum. We have many more theology, philosophy, and literature classes. A very objective and verifiable difference we have is that DLSU’s programs are often times very functionally based. BSc. Major in Marketing, BSc. Major in Accounting… We have no such functional area courses. All of our management courses are general management courses. Even Management Engineering (ME) is not a functional area of management. There are two reasons for this. One, we don’t think the very young person coming in knows exactly what he is going to do after graduation so it would be foolish for that person to specialize so early. You can specialize at work and then eventually do masters in a specific field that you want. The second and more important difference is that we focus on being entrepreneurial. For you to be an entrepreneur, you can’t just know a lot about one thing. You have to know a lot about many things to run the show. This is our philosophy.

We have six minors. Students in any of our programs can complete a minor area of concentration as part of their degree. But to make entire degree programs – I don’t think so. Even the Ateneo’s entire philosophy is liberal arts. General, holistic formation of the person.

Do you think that the SOM produces students who are competitive not just locally, but internationally as well?

Definitely. Just one look at our alumni profile will show you that many of them have over time become country and regional managers. Many of them have moved overseas and assumed very important positions there. Some of the companies they have set up are now competing with regional and global players. But we’re not just sitting back and saying, "go out and compete." We’re trying to help them become more global. For instance – this year, we launched our junior term abroad program. For the very first time, 23 of our students went to various countries and spent a semester abroad. It is not unusual that students go abroad. We’ve always had scholarships available to certain partner universities. The reason why many students choose not to go abroad is that it will delay graduation by a year. Now, we’ve worked with the other schools here and created a special semester for people going abroad. We identify sophomores who have opted to spend a semester abroad, we screen them, we select the best among them, we place them in schools, and then we have a special school year just for them. Now, for the first time, we have large numbers of students spending time abroad. In order to make our students globally competitive, they have to gain an international perspective.

Does Ateneo subsidize the tuition?

Ateneo does not spend anything but it taps its international exchange partners so that our students are able to go without paying tuition. Almost all of them have some sort of subsidy. It’s still expensive – students still have to budget around $5,000 to $6,000 for the semester, but that’s much, much less than they would spend if they went on their own.

What schools have you partnered with?

Right now we have programs with the University of San Francisco and Santa Clara University. There’s a French university called Essca which has a campus in Budapest and France. We have the University of International Business and Economics in Beijing, the Hong Kong Baptist University, Waseda University and Kyushu University in Japan. We’re also tapping our Jesuit network to increase the total number of partners. I didn’t want to announce this yet, but we are trying to see if we can have some arrangement with the Wharton undergraduate business school. Our only edge there is that so many of our alumni have done so well in Wharton.

I heard that the SOM is promoting a new – more professional and dynamic image. Is this true?

Some years ago, when we were designing the SOM, we asked ourselves: What’s our vision for the SOM? We decided that the type of student we want to produce should have certain qualities – ethical, global in outlook, technically proficient, comfortable with the use of technology, etc.

First, we do not just want to have national recognition. We want to have regional recognition as a center for excellence in undergraduate business education. Second, we want our school to have an impact on the community outside the school not just through our students, but as a school. In the past, we focused on doing a good job with our students and our contribution to the country would be through what our students would eventually achieve. Simply put, that’s not good enough anymore.

For example, you probably have seen an ad for our Business Leadership Forum to be held at the InterCon Hotel. This is the fourth we’re holding. This is our school’s contribution to the business community. We invite CEOs and COOs of successful Philippine companies and ask them to share their success stories with others in the business community. We also have a family business breakfast round table, limited to 50-60 participants each time. We’ve already had two sessions of that; we have four more planned for the year. We are doing a lot of outreach activities that are geared towards helping the business community directly as an institution. Establishing regional presence – we’re hosting in the JGSOM something called ASEF University (ongoing until tomorrow, Feb. 14). Thirty five to 38 international students from all over Asia and Europe are here and we have 12 speakers – two of them Filipinos – from all over the world. We bidded for this. It’s held twice a year; once in Europe and once in Asia. We’re very pleased to be the fourth host in Asia. Previous hosts were top-tier schools like Peking University, National University of Singapore, and Chulalongkorn University. The JG Summit Group has been very generous in supporting us. It’s something like an International Youth Camp.

Were there any adverse reactions to the dress code you implemented in the School of Management?

The dress code is a hot issue among the students right now. The dress code is another part of what we feel is formation. It’s not so much image necessarily that we are trying to project – or that our students have to dress a certain way. It’s more about self-discipline and a sense of propriety. The dress code is one manifestation of these values. Some of our students come to school looking as if they have just rolled out of bed and came to class. This is not just unpleasant to see, but is a sign of disrespect for their classmates, teachers, and the rest of the community.

Can you explain more about the Business Accelerator Program?

This program is something we’re really proud of and we are hoping will take off. Students all have to do entrepreneurial projects in senior year but many of the projects they do are small-time because they have so little time to do it. How do we get our students to be more global in their thinking, to think bigger and look at businesses that are scalable? We said: Let’s give them more time, let’s give them support, let’s give them facilities, and let’s attract what we hope our some of our best students to enter the program. Our dream is that our best students will leave Ateneo not competing for the jobs that are out there, but rather they will go out and create jobs for other people. Our students have skills, talents, and resources available to them that are not available to others. They should go out and do more for this country by generating employment. This is the whole point why the JGSOM is primarily entrepreneurial in its focus. Many of our students will not actually set up businesses, but if their whole attitude in what they do is entrepreneurial – looking for innovative ways to do things, getting things done instead of pointing the finger of blame at others – that’s a big contribution to this country.

How diverse is the student population of the JGSOM?

In general, Ateneo’s tuition fees dictate that most of its students come from upper to middle-income families. But 15 to 16 percent of the Ateneo student body is on financial scholarship. The fees are not affordable to most people, which is very unfortunate. However, if you compare our student body now to the student body 10 years ago, you’ll see that there are many more feeder schools and a lot more students from the provinces. There’s also a preferential option for provincial students. Entrance test cutoff scores are a little lower and scholarships are given more freely to try and do some sort of social engineering to bring in more underprivileged students. We’re also taking on more activities wherein we intervene more directly in the outside community – one positive side effect of this would be that more people would think of us a possible university choice.

What other changes do you plan to implement in the JGSOM?

We’d like the school to move towards generating more research. We’ve never been known as a research-oriented organization. Creating a more research-oriented culture is something we’d like to go into. This year, we came out with the Loyola Schools Review for the School of Management. It’s a research journal for the university. This March, we are launching the Ateneo Student Business Review, highlighting student research. We’re also starting to join more and more international competitions.

How do we ease the country’s problem of brain drain?

If we can just create more opportunities for people here, fewer people would leave. I don’t think we can sit back and blame the government and say, "do this, do that" so that we’ll stay. We have to do our share. Ateneo experiences its share of brain drain. We send some of our best faculty abroad and they don’t come back. But some of us have come back. I have some very talented faculty here. Working with people like these – we hope, can help to create opportunities to make this country more attractive. It would be great if the government did more, but even if they didn’t, I think we can make some difference ourselves. The SOMBA is precisely the sort of thing that will keep people with resources from leaving. And since we are generating employment for people without resources, even these people don’t have to leave.

How was the education sector affected by the recent economic and political upsets?

Look at our list of uncollectible accounts. Even in the Ateneo, many schools are experiencing a decline in applications. The number of applicants used to grow tremendously each year. Now, it’s not growing as fast. We’re not able to collect from many of the students, even in a school like ours. Can you imagine schools that have lower-income or middle-income students? The education sector has been very much affected by people choosing not to continue their studies. Every private school relies on cooperation with outside sectors to run its programs. Many of the traditional donors are also finding it difficult to be as generous today as they were before. The availability of resources is affected. And of course, the environment that our students go into is very different. We have to respond by making our curriculum here appropriate for the context that our students will be going out into.

What are the greatest challenges that you face as the dean of the SOM?

The greatest challenge is attracting qualified human resource to help us get our work done. We are very successful in recruiting some of the best students in the country. We have been fortunate enough to be blessed with many good faculty. But if we had more full-time faculty members on board, there’s so much more we can do. A lot of people keep saying that our problem is money. In fact, I don’t think that the problem is money. With the right people, we can get the money. We can do educational entrepreneurship. There are all sorts of activities we can do that would provide a real service to the community but can also generate income for us. We try to recruit our top students and we have been successful. We try to attract some of our very best students while they’re young but then we have to send them for graduate degrees. Not all of them come back. We have a gap in the middle. The 30s age group is not present in the faculty. Our salaries are simply not competitive – the political and economic environment is not terribly attractive either.

What do you think are the most important characteristics one must have to succeed in business?

A good educational background is a must, but how do you define good? Good does not necessarily mean the most prominent school, although that helps. Good does not necessarily mean the best grades, although that may also help. For business, I think what we really need to develop in people is the attitude of opportunity seeking, innovation, and persistence. However, having skills and techniques without the right values and personal formation is useless. If you are not self-confident, if you are not someone who’s a go-getter, if you are not someone with vigor and vitality – it’s hard to get anywhere. I always tell the students in the Honors program – the most important thing you leave here with is not your degree. The degree can only help you get your first job. The most important thing you get here is the training to always do your best in all that you do; the training to be diligent and not give up when things get tough. Ability to work with people from different backgrounds, ability to walk to someone supposedly famous and important and not be afraid to say, "Can I interview you?" A good pedigree and connections will help. But ultimately the most successful people are the ones who have the right formation. And just as it’s difficult to define good, you have to define success. There’s a whole long discussion of what success really is.

The question I’m always asked by High-4 Students is "Which is the best school or which is the best program?" The gifted students always ask, "Which is better — Management Honors or ME?" The fourth year College students looking at job offers always ask, "Which is the better company — Unilever or PnG? What is the best offer?" My response is always: It is a fruitless exercise to say what is best and to try to say what is best outside of your own personal context. What is best for you is different from what is best for others. Only you can really answer what is best. The only thing I can do for you is ask you the right questions because your own answers to those questions will help you decide what is best. The most disappointing thing I’ve encountered is when one of our most outstanding graduates came to me and asked: "Sir, should I work for Unilever or Shell? I’ve been leaning towards Shell because they’re going to pay me more." For someone with so much talent, more doors are open. And one’s basis for choosing which door to enter surely should be based on something more important in the long run than how much the salary is going to be.

And it should be the same for High School students. There’s no best course. Fine Arts can be the best course for you. It depends on what you like to do and what you are able to do. You have to match your interests and abilities. This is my advice for all young people. Know yourself so that you’ll know what choices to make. * * *

[victory]

A very inspiring piece about Rudy Ang here:

Xavier School Salutes Rudy Ang (XS'79) (http://www.xs.edu.ph/salutes.php)

XAVIER SCHOOL SALUTES RUDY ANG ('79)

One of Xavier School's most distinguished graduates (and most eligible bachelors!) is none other than Rodolfo "Rudy" P. Ang of Batch 1979. Rudy was recently appointed Dean of Ateneo de Manila's John Gokongwei School of Management. He is also the immediate past-President of the Alumni Association of Xavier School. A no-nonsense fellow, Rudy is revered as a true example of the model-Xaverian. He not only excelled in academics but in leadership and service to the community as well. Rudy holds an MBA from Boston College as well as a double-major in Business Management (Honors) and Communication Arts from the Ateneo. History will always remember Rudy as among the first Xavier alumni to come back and teach in Xavier School.

Last July 31, 2003, Rudy spoke on behalf of 600 Grant-in-Aid scholars, thanking our dear benefactors for their generosity as well as showing them that their donations have not gone to waste. From humble beginnings, Rudy related how the Grant-in-Aid Scholarship Program of Xavier School helped him get to where he is today. We publish below the transcipt of Rudy's speech during the July 31 event.

Rudy, Xavier School is proud of you and we salute you. Luceat Lux!

--- Rudy's speech (July 31, 2003) ---

I would like to thank the organizers of tonight's event, Xavier School and the Xavier School Educational and Trust Fund, for giving me this rare opportunity to look my benefactors in the eye and to thank you all in person for all that you have done for me and for the 600 other Grant-in-Aid scholars of Xavier School over the years.

My brothers and I became Grant-in-Aid scholars in 1968, when I was in Grade 1, and all three of us continued to be beneficiaries of the program until graduation. This would make us among the very first scholars of the program. I can say, with the deepest humility and sincerity, that all I am today, I owe to you and to Xavier School.

Tonight's event also provides our benefactors with what is, unfortunately, an equally rare opportunity for you to see the fruits of your generosity. It humbles me to stand before you tonight as a representative of all the other recipients of Grants-in-Aid, many of them much more accomplished than myself, to let you know that your generosity has not been wasted on us; that we have tried, to the best of our ability, to use wisely this gift you have given us of a Xavier education.

My father died in 1968, leaving behind a business that promptly closed down, a pile of debt, and a young widow with ten children. I was six years old, the ninth of ten children. My eldest sister was 19. Our youngest was 3. Those were very difficult years for us. To make ends meet, my mother took up dressmaking, and started taking in sewing jobs from relatives and friends. My older siblings had to become working students, taking on full-time secretarial jobs during the day, and enrolling in night school at U.S.T. As one of the youngest in the family, I was spared much of the difficulty and was told only to concentrate on my studies.

Thanks to Xavier's Grant-in-Aid program, my brothers and I were able to continue our studies in Xavier School. But it was not easy being lower middle class in a school populated mostly by the upper class. It was easy to envy my classmates, and to notice all the things they had that we could not afford: their beautiful homes, their cars, their imported clothes and toys, even their books and their schoolbags. I had to make do with hand-me-downs and toys that my sisters would buy for me from the San Juan public market. I would often have to walk to or from school if I couldn't get a ride with a classmate. I never had the chance to have a birthday party or go on family outings. It was easy to grow bitter and to ask why my classmates had so much when I had to make do with so much less.

Fortunately, my education at Xavier and later on at the Ateneo, also on full scholarship, helped to change the way I looked at things. I began to focus less on what I did not have, and more on what I had been given. I learned to envy my classmates less, and to be more grateful for whatever talents I had been blessed with, whatever opportunities were presented to me. Not least of these was the gift of a Xavier education. What had I done, after all, to deserve such a gift?

A few months ago, my sister asked me why I keep telling people how poor we used to be. Wouldn't it be better, she asked, for us to put this behind us? I responded that having been poor was not, after all, something for us to be ashamed of. In fact, whatever success we have been able to achieve in our lives is a much greater cause for pride because of where we came from.

Tonight, I have a much more important reason for sharing my story with you. I'd like to let you know that your investment in us, and in XSETF, has yielded an ample return; that your generous act so many years ago, on behalf of a nameless and faceless Grant-in-Aid scholar that you never met, has touched lives; has touched this life, and continues to touch lives through the people we work with, work for, and work on.

Tonight, I also have an appeal for you. There are many other young boys who greatly need your help, your continued generosity. Xavier School needs your support to be able to ensure that no qualified young boy should be deprived of a Xavier education because of financial need. Please help Xavier to continue transforming the lives of other young boys, the way you helped to transform mine so many years ago. There are still, today, so many other young boys who can benefit from your generosity; whose lives are in need of your caring touch.

Thank you very much for your presence here tonight, but more especially, thank you for all you have done for me and the 600 other beneficiaries of the Grant-in-Aid program over the years. Have a pleasant evening, and good night.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rudy Ang, XS Batch '79, is the Dean of the John Gokongwei School of Management of the Ateneo de Manila University, immediate past president of the Alumni Association of Xavier School, former member of the Xavier School Board of Trustees, and former High School English teacher at Xavier School.

[rabbaddal]

Ha! Somebody beat me to it.:lol:

The Junior Term Abroad program sounds like a good way to gain a global perspective. Can they offer a term abroad in Pepperdine? Daming chicks doon, sabi ni YFUER.

[YFU'ER]

Originally posted by rabbaddal
Ha! Somebody beat me to it.:lol:

The Junior Term Abroad program sounds like a good way to gain a global perspective. Can they offer a term abroad in Pepperdine? Daming chicks doon, sabi ni YFUER.

Rabbaddal,

Did you really think you would beat Victory in posting the speech of Rudy Ang? Hah! :lol: Balita ko, Rudy Ang IS the guru of Victory. Come to think of it, their lives mirror each other except for the fact that Victory is the chick boy who ends up marrying the nice looking top ME student of Ateneo. :evilgrin: (Tama ba ang discription ko, saw the pic that went with the Star article)

Questions? How come Ateneo has not approached other sister schools like Sophia in Japan or probably the best Jesuit university in the States that has a business program, Boston College. Fordham in NYC may be out of the picture because of the cost of living in NYC. Ditto for Georgetown.

During my time, my friends and I had a dirty name for USF which I will not repeat. I do not know if it still holds true but USF was once known as a party school for rich pinoys mostly from the Iloilo and Bacolod region. I saw first hand how hard they party. Santa Clara I was told by friends in the Frisco area had better students.

The dress code for the SOM students is a direct copy of the program instituted by the new dean of Florida A&M University some twenty years ago. To the uninitiated, Florida A&M is the best predominantly African-American university in the States and their business school is patterned after Wharton. e new dean insisted that all students of the business school wear shirt and tie at a minimum for men and always dresses for women.

She also exposed the students to outside speakers bringing in top executives from Fortune 500 firms. All the students were expected to differentiate themselves not only from other students in the campus but to other universities. Students were expected to participate in internship or co-op programs. Quite rigid but the job placement for almost all of the students of the business school was close to 95% upon graduation.

[rabbaddal]

The Ateneo Alumni Association of Canada will be hosting the 2004 All-Ateneo Conference in Toronto. Visit the event website directly at:

All-Ateneo Convention Website (http://www.ateneo2004.com/)

[rabbaddal]

From the Philippine Star:

---------------------------

Techie (and proud of it) Ayala Corp. president and chief executive officer Jaime Augusto Zobel de Ayala II was one of the judges in an IT enterprise contest put together by HSBC (Phils.)

The first prize winners – Ateneans who took their high school in Chinese schools other than Xavier School and are fluent (not just functionally) in both English and Chinese – came up with mobile fast forward portal called "e-lustrado" which hopes to provide Filipino literary works with global access.

The winners will join fellow winners in Hong Kong and Malaysia on a study tour at the University of Washington, where they can spend their cash winnings of P150,000.

Oh yes, they also get a scholarship (after they graduate from Ateneo de Manila, of course) to the Venture in Entrepreneurship program of the Asian Institute of Management.

[Exterminator]

Ateneo Students Dominate the
L’OREAL e-STRAT 4 Challenge


The L’Oreal e-Strat Challenge is the largest on-line strategy game in the world, and is open to students (both undergraduate and graduate) from anywhere in the world. Played over a period of two months, student teams of three members each are asked to act as the General Manager of a cosmetics company with an international portfolio of products, devising business strategy and competing with virtual companies that will respond to their every move.

76 teams from the Philippine registered to participate in e-Strat Challenge 2004. Only eight of these teams qualified for the second round, made up of 1,000 teams from all-over the world. Five of these 8 teams were made up of undergraduate students of our John Gokongwei School of Management. What makes this feat even more impressive is the fact that the 3 other teams (two from U.P. and one from De La Salle), were all made up of MBA students.

Only the top 250 teams worldwide qualified for the third round, and only one of the eight teams from the Philippines made it to this magic circle: the Ateneo team, MEAmore, made up of three Management Engineering seniors: Daniel Lee, Carlo Timoteo, and Jecicharles David.

The third round is still ongoing, and it is unsure how our team will fare, but our three young students are already the champions in the Philippines, stamping their class over the rest of the field.

[blue_asteroid24]

Wow! Kudos 2 ateneo!

[saybernuk]

bili na kayo!!!