Philippine Universities vs. the rest of the world [Archive]

lilldude26

Jun 8, 2001, 03:42 AM

It all boils down to MONEY. High Quality College Education is EXPENSIVE not just in the Philippines but around the world.

The MAIN difference between World-class Universities like Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc. and Philippine universities is the amount of Tuition fees they charge annually.

Harvard, Stanford, etc. charges an annual Tuition per college student of about US $ 25,000.00 or about P 1,250,000.00 per year.

Compare this to the Most Expensive Philippine Universities like La Salle, Ateneo or UA&P which at most charges "only" about P 100,000.00 per year.

Thats why La Salle, Ateneo & UA&P gets the best Philippine professors available because they offer the highest salaries and of course they are able to offer the best facilities and equipment possible in the Philippines.

However due to tremendous difference in the Tuition Fees of Harvard, etc. versus the topnotch Philippine universities, of course even our best local universities cannot simply compare with them.

Note: UP-Diliman is also very expensive - its just that its college students are not burdened financially since the National Government annual gives to UP about P 10 Billion a year which our topnotch Philippine PRIVATE universities do not get. In fact despite this annual Nat'l Gov't subsidy, UP feels that what they are getting is not enough to properly maintain their facilities and modernize their equipment - thats why even UP has to increase its very low P 300.00 per unit Tuition fee per sem.

The financial situation & standard of college education is of course even worse for our other Philippine colleges & universities which charge at most only one-fourth or even one-tenth of the annual Tuition Fees of La Salle, Ateneo or UA&P. Thats why their standards are not as good as UP-Diliman, DLSU-Manila & Ateneo.

Utopia

Jun 8, 2001, 01:43 PM

Having studied at Oxford University, I can see how the very top Filipino students are world class in terms of their capabilities. There are some who make it to the top such as Victor Calanog of the Ateneo, who ranked at the top of the Wharton MBA class of 2000. However, school-wise, Philippine universities are very much third-world in terms of -- (1) the overall quality of students, (2) the quality of teaching and most teachers (not all), (3) lack of or absence of leading-edge research, etc.

At Oxford, for instance -- most of the teachers have written books on their respective subject areas (teaching is secondary to research); the students are required to read voluminous amount of material EACH DAY which would basically dwarf the amount required by Philippine universities in a whole semester or trimester (so you guys should be extremely grateful); thinking and clear, logical communication of ideas are skills that are emphasized instead of rote memory; the tutorial method (one-on-one) of teaching ensures maximum student-centered learning; the bar of excellence is extremely high since most of the students rank in the 99 percentile (in terms of entrance exams) and, to top it all, they're over-achievers, extremely hardworking, and competitive; etc. It is not uncommon for some students to work overnight (that is, without sleeping) in preparation for a presentation the following day.

On the negative side, the environment is so intense such that suicides are quite common before the annual examinations. Keep in mind most of the students ranked at the top of their schools and the mere thought of possibly failing an exam is very frightful and unacceptable for some. In addition, keep in mind there's no such thing as semestral/trimestral grades in Oxford. It's either a pass or fail at the end of your course (say at the end of 4 years) and the exams constitute a very rigorous, nerve-racking written exam as well as an oral exam in front of a panel of professors who are also wearing togas. (Note: Students are required to wear the traditional suit with bowtie, cap, and toga during both exams.) Just imagine how one's specific mental or physical state of health on the very day of the exam can have an impact on one's whole lifetime. I think that the mere thought of the possibility of one not being in an optimum state of wellbeing on one particular, significant day is dreadful and nightmarish.

There are many, many more differences but the above are the more obvious ones. That's also why I think students in the Philippines should stop bashing each other as to which school is better than the other because the bottom line is, you all need to work together to improve Philippine education since it has a very long way to go. It is still very much third-world in terms of quality, therefore, stop fighting and nitpicking and start cooperating!!!!

aticus

Jun 8, 2001, 03:08 PM

I absolutely agree with friend Utopia. I feel we lack, not the intellectual capacity, but the academic discipline to truly compete against the world's best. And the students here who DO compete against the best (such as Mr. Calanog), do so because they have mastered the art of pushing themselves to excel.

I used to teach for three years at a university, and what I noticed is that most of my students only seem to want to do the bare minimum to get by. Not many really try to LEARN the subject matter. They're instead more concerned with learning what they need for the next test, rather than what they need to truly understand the subject. In this regard I actually believe we have too many tests, but not enough real testing of knowledge. There's a big difference. I believe I would have preferred the Oxford model to the model of education from my previous school, or even my current one.

And I also agree with Utopia when he says that we should stop arguing with each other and focus instead on improving our own internal standards of education. Some of us here are starting to sound like what's really important is beating the other school, rather than internally achieving real excellence. We should change our focus towards objective academic excellence, against all international standards, rather than a feeling of superiority merely because we might be better than another Philippine school.

Pepe

Jun 8, 2001, 03:55 PM

Having studied in UP Diliman and two top UK universities, I personally can say that Filipinos educated in the top Philippine universities can easily compete against those from overseas. One thing that Filipinos lack is in the application of knowledge and this is due to the fact that Philippine universities lack the funding to purchase equipment and supplies that will rival those of any overseas university. Pinoys can easily compete in theories and non-applied sciences.

Given the same amount of money to start with, I would reckon that the top Philippine universities can surpass those universities in the UK and US.

As I have stated, the problem is MONEY. With more MONEY, universities can afford to hire and retain the best teachers and give them the luxury to do research while teaching. Universities will be able to provide the best facilities for research as well.

With these improvements, the quality of education will improve and so will the graduates.

Another point that is worth noting is the educational system here in Pinas. The US educational system does not fit us like a glove. I'd rather have the UK/European educational system wherein you only need to take subjects relevant to your interest/course than taking other courses that CLAIM to enhance one's character. THIS should be done in the primary and secondary education in the first place.

Comment on Utopia wrt Oxford professors. The reason why teaching is secondary to research is because they have the luxury to get into research due to the fact that [1] the have many professors (one can handle only one subject and do research the entire year) and [2] they have more money! Did you know that most UK universities get additional funding for research that are published? With this incentive, they tend to do more research. Here? The incentive is close to nil.

Modesty aside, my adviser and professors from the two UK universities were/are quite impressed by my performance considering that I graduated from the lowly UP Diliman. One UK university even opened a scholarship for Filipinos the year after I graduated -- sadly, nobody availed.

Taas noo, Pinoy! Ika'y world-class!

aldogucci

Jun 8, 2001, 08:25 PM

In general, I would agree with most of the comments made. There are Filipinos who can definitely compete with the best talent in the world. However, the same can be said for every other country. There are talented people everywhere. I myself am Filipino, although I was raised in the States. My siblings, cousins, and other Fil-Am friends attended some of the best universities in the US, including Harvard, Yale, Stanford, MIT, etc. The Filipinos (not Fil-Ams) whom I met in college were all very talented....they would have to be to be able to attend a top school in the US. I think the biggest differences between local and foreign universities will be the teaching quality and the student diversity. The teaching quality has already been addressed by another poster. The student diversity at some of the best schools is truly amazing. While the majority of the students in Ivy League and other top schools are from the US, there are also loads of international students. Thus, the student body at a place like Harvard or Yale represents some of the best talent the entire world has to offer. Not only is the bar raised because of these students, but your learning experience is greatly enhanced. Here's an example: I had a study group once made up of 6 people. The group consisted of a student from Japan, one from Nigeria, one from Hong Kong, one from England, and two from the States, including myself. Everyone was able to contribute to each group member's learning process by being able to look at things with a truy global view. My guess is that UP, Ateneo and LaSalle et al have mostly Filipino students. These are things that factors such as lack of money may never overcome.

How are things taught here in the Philippines? Friends have told me that much of the teaching here is by rote memory, rather than in developing the ability to think creatively and critically about the subject matter. Is this true?

Pepe

Jun 9, 2001, 01:57 AM

Aldogucci,

Student diversity is a function of educational quality and availability of resources. International students will go to a Philippine school if the quality is high enough to compete against the rest of the universities overseas and if the resources available (laboratories, libraries, etc.) are superior. Without both of them, it is quite impossible to have a diversified student population.

I have addressed this issue (resources and educational quality) earlier stating that the problem is money. I do not know if you have heard of this but there was a time when UP LB was the target of our SouthEast Asian neighbors to learn more about agriculture, specially about rice research and technologies. Now, where do we think they go? Somewhere else even if IRRI is still there. Did you know that there are people considering going to Medical School here not only because it is cheaper but also because they know that they can pass the American Board Exams with the education that they get here?

I don't know where your friends go/went to school here in the Philippines but have you asked them about courses in UP Diliman such as Computer Science and EE to name a two? Rote memory may help but definitely will not guarantee you a passing grade. Believe me, I know - I teach there. :evil_grin:

medelyn

Jun 14, 2001, 04:31 PM

Congrats to UP-Diliman, DLSU-Manila, ADMU & UST - our TOP 4 Philippine Universities.

Light&Easy

Jun 16, 2001, 02:06 AM

one thing good about our educational system is that it teaches us to strive harder in whatever we do,our schools generally provides us what they are capable of giving but being a third world country really put us in the disadvantage, interms of advancing our system to a higher level!(not to mention politics:smokin:)

so far UP Diliman is the ONLY Philippine University which can be compare with other American or European Universities:flamer:sad fact but true!:smokin:

Oscar01

Jun 16, 2001, 05:44 AM

This is a very interesting post. I'm glad I found it, because I was just reading e-mail from an incoming Ateneo Economics senior who is taking an all-expenses paid tour of China sponsored by Hong Kong. I was fortunate enough to make it last year, and it was a real eye-opener.

The selection for this thing was worldwide, and I was with overseas Chinese students from the American schools mentioned above, and others from Australia, Canada and Europe. Definitely, in terms of TECHNICAL knowledge, I couldn't hold a candle.

These guys probably took calculus in high school, for example. I had a female freshman from the London School of Economics look at my textbook and say that I was studying their freshman material (I was a graduating Economics Honors senior at the time). There was a beauty queen from California who once had a parade in her honor, and a couple of pre-med students from Yale who had very impressive research projects and scholarships.

But I think one important point is that TECHNICAL knowledge only gets you so far, and there are things that more funding and better facilities cannot make up for.

For example, when you interact in such an international, multicultural environment, most of the time, it is how you articulate your ideas and relate to people that are respected. My "lowly" Ateneo education was quite enough to allow me to debate a Finance major from New York regarding the application of Cost Accounting principles to the hypothetical pricing of souvenirs if sold back home, an Oxford economics major regarding Southeast Asian trade, Hong Kong students regarding the treatment of Filipina domestic helpers, etc.

In friendly chats like those, who looks at your school?

Another thing is that, these days, modern telecommunications technology is an equalizer of sorts. No teacher can truly teach you everything, but a good one can equip you to update and expand your knowledge on your own, and this is made easier with the Internet.

Simple discipline is another thing. I think Biboy Calanog was mentioned above, but I doubt he would attribute a lot of his achievements to being more intelligent than his classmates. The guy, for example, takes side jobs to support himself, and he has to balance studying with tutoring Wharton MBAs and doing research assistant work.

I think he was also able to get more out of his professors just by taking the effort to ask and ask. I think his PhD advisor helped him formulate the curriculum of the elective he is presently teaching in the Ateneo, and I think he wrote up a case study featuring Manny Pangilinan to get an Asian case in the mix. I was disappointed last summer when my students would groan at the sight of a TWO-PAGE reading, and remembered Biboy Calanog e-mailing an entire masteral level Econometric article by one of his godlike professors in response to a simple Eco question (which, unfortunately, I could not understand at all due to the math content).

So, I think that a big part of it is simple industriousness, which we Asians are supposedly inclined towards.

To end, I do agree that we have nothing to be ashamed of, although this does not mean education is not a budget priority. In that China tour, these Yale, Harvard and Stanford people were in awe when we toured the historic Beijing and Tsinghua Universities (the equivalents of our UP and Ateneo, in a sense).

We know that Asian universities can be competitive internationally, and that the Philippines should be no exception.

Pepe

Jun 17, 2001, 03:04 PM

Remember that most overseas pre-university studies are at least 1 year MORE than ours but that does not ensure that they are TECHNICALLY superior. Ever wondered why we are doing so well in those Math Olympiads?

I have friends from highschool who survived copying from classmates but when they transferred to the US, they were getting really good grades - even to the extent that saying that they are the ones whom students copy from.

Have you heard about Oxford University in England - that if you get to graduate (undergraduate) from the university and offer a "donation" of a specific amount that they can award you an MA already? What does that say?

I have aunts who studied both in the US and in the Philippines, specifically UP, and testify that UP courses are more difficult - specially the graduate schools.

I have met a lot of students/graduates from overseas as well as interacted with quite a number of professors from different universities both in the UK and the US and I can say that we can easily hold our own against them.

Frankly, the only way to make it OBVIOUS for the universities to increase the quality of education. Where to get the budget for it is everyone's guess... :D

Utopia

Jun 17, 2001, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by Pepe
Have you heard about Oxford University in England - that if you get to graduate (undergraduate) from the university and offer a "donation" of a specific amount that they can award you an MA already? What does that say?

With all due respect, an Oxford MA degree is conferred on Oxford undergraduates, with or without a donation, at the discretion of their respective Colleges, contrary to your implication. The "real" Oxford graduate degrees are MPhil, MSc, MLitt, and DPhil. The same practice holds true in Cambridge. FYI.

[Edited by Utopia on 06-17-2001 at 01:14 PM]

Pepe

Jun 18, 2001, 02:13 PM

I will not disagree with you on this one but I'd like to verify it since the Imperial College student paper featured an article regarding this particular issue -- conferring MA to undergraduates without taking even a single graduate course. SO why award a BA if you can get an MA right away?

YaYiN

Jun 20, 2001, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by aldogucci
How are things taught here in the Philippines? Friends have told me that much of the teaching here is by rote memory, rather than in developing the ability to think creatively and critically about the subject matter. Is this true?
like everyone else has said, economics and simply the lack of funds is at the root of this, and all the other reasons why the quality of education in the philippines is not as good as it used to be.

i'm not sure how much things have changed (if indeed they have) but a few years ago, i had teachers (in botany and history, to name a few) who lifted exam questions straight from the book and various readings. what was worse was that the whole class knew they used the same (multiple choice) questions from the previous semesters, and that they'd just change the numbering. from the teacher's perspective, i guess he/she thought it was too much trouble to write a new exam for an increasing number of students for the same (low?) pay every semester.

i'm not saying this was true for every single teacher in that institution. i was fortunate enough to encounter some who, in my opinion, truly had a passion for teaching and was sincerely dedicated to the education of his/her students. but i can't deny that learning things by rote memory was a practice that never existed in the philippine school system.

YaYiN

Jun 20, 2001, 09:59 AM

in general, i think there's a big difference in the classroom atmosphere, which may partly be rooted in culture.

people here are outspoken and direct; they are quick to voice out their (dissenting) opinion. madalas nga, nag uunahan pa. i think filipinos, in general, have an over-developed aversion to conflict and embarassment and so they'd rather not speak up, unless they were called on to recite. nahihiya kase, kahit alam naman niya yung tamang sagot. thus, his/her potential remains unrealised and we are left to wonder on how the group could have benefited from his input in the discussion.

ibarramedia

Jun 21, 2001, 11:44 AM

This is just my own opinion and from my personal experience. I think Philippine universities are a little inferior compared to the US. maybe the rest of the world. That is not to take away from the good things that Philippine univerites teach the students. Having said this, I also want to point out that generally speaking, philippine elementary and and high schools are superior in terms of academic standards but inferior in terms of athletic standards.

It is not uncommon for some incoming freshmen who were at the top 10% of their high school class have a hard time in college. In the US, there is a very big difference going from high school to college. And Tougher too. I most universities our grades depended on tests. In some classes, there were only 2 a mid term or a final, some a paper and a final, or 3 exams and a paper, or 2 exams and a paper. My point is all the homework issued, discussion, researches, etc. don't count grade wise. It is just a tool used to help you with the exams. One time, i helped several people in our study group because they had a hard time with the class and they ended up with better grades than myself because I was not a good test taker, but I still knew a lot about the class. American universities also have a great deal of research studies being conducted. Some of it are years and decades old. I'm not sure about Philippine universities. There are also a lot less university students in the US in proportion to the High school graduates it produces. not everyone goes to college here unlike the philippines.

ibarramedia

Jun 21, 2001, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by YaYiN

like everyone else has said, economics and simply the lack of funds is at the root of this, and all the other reasons why the quality of education in the philippines is not as good as it used to be.

i'm not sure how much things have changed (if indeed they have) but a few years ago, i had teachers (in botany and history, to name a few) who lifted exam questions straight from the book and various readings. what was worse was that the whole class knew they used the same (multiple choice) questions from the previous semesters, and that they'd just change the numbering. from the teacher's perspective, i guess he/she thought it was too much trouble to write a new exam for an increasing number of students for the same (low?) pay every semester.

i'm not saying this was true for every single teacher in that institution. i was fortunate enough to encounter some who, in my opinion, truly had a passion for teaching and was sincerely dedicated to the education of his/her students. but i can't deny that learning things by rote memory was a practice that never existed in the philippine school system.

When I was in college, our grades depended on 2 or 3 exams and maybe a paper thrown in. In my opinion sometimes the tests did not really reflect on what we learned. If I screwed up my mid term, then I better be damn good in my final. The overall learning process is what I really benefitted from. We don't just learn by rote memory, we use critical thinking, we analyze the how's and the why's. enriched discussions and lectures, researches. Our professors nver gave the same exams, It is always revised because There are always new things each semester and to avoid cheating(copying form old exams). However they also have a university and department approved notetaking center where past lectures and exams are available. Exams are similar but not exactly the same. This is just to help students get an idea what it's like. The exams are always in multiple choice so it is easier to run into the machine. In college, I realized that multiple choice is not always easy. Some questions are pararagraphs long same with the choices. What always got me was double negatives or everything wwas right but choose the best answer. or stuff like a or b, c or d, all of the above or none of the above. A little tricky. I personally like essay questions because I was able to expound on the subject at hand and get some thing right even paritially as opposed to having the right answer or wrong answer in a multiple choice. Overall, universities here opens your mind to a lot of new things and self discovery.Philippine universities need a lot more improvement here and it needs to get away from plain rote memorization. Memorization is good especially in law and medicine but there is much more to learning than just spewing facts.
but it does not mean that Philippine universities are all that bad. It just needs some improvements on it's system based on a few posts I've read.

Sunny_Orange

Jun 22, 2001, 02:57 PM

maraming pinoy ang matatalino, di ko nga alam kung bakit di tayo kasing unlad ng US at japan, may student ang mommy ko sa Grade 2, sa isang baranggay school nag-migrate sila sa states pagdating dito honor student sya, yung friend ko dito nag HS sa states, na-accelerate tapos mag-ma-magnet school sana kaso kulang sa residency .. yun friend kong nurse graduate ng USTE sya ang nagtuturo sa kasamahan nya na graduate ng NUrsing sa Us at iba pang countries, ako lang eh, mas magaling pa ako sa kasamahan ko dito eh pareho lang kaming software engineer!

yun lang!

chobas_angel

Jun 29, 2001, 11:29 AM

a lot of people have been telling me that filipinos are better than americans when it comes to english (not the language but the subject) but i found that hard to believe.

then 2 days ago i took an english test at a big compay in washington dc (bec i applied for a job there that requires good writing skills). let's just say my score was way higher than the scores of all those who have taken the test in the past. nobody was more surprised than i was. i mean, i was just an average student in my english classes in high school & college. :confused:

so maybe we filipinos are better... at least in english ;)

congrats to UP, DLSU, AdMU, & UST for making it to the asiaweek list.

i'm proud to be educated by one of the top universities in asia :)

ibarramedia

Jun 29, 2001, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by chobas_angel
a lot of people have been telling me that filipinos are better than americans when it comes to english (not the language but the subject) but i found that hard to believe.

then 2 days ago i took an english test at a big compay in washington dc (bec i applied for a job there that requires good writing skills). let's just say my score was way higher than the scores of all those who have taken the test in the past. nobody was more surprised than i was. i mean, i was just an average student in my english classes in high school & college. :confused:

so maybe we filipinos are better... at least in english ;)

congrats to UP, DLSU, AdMU, & UST for making it to the asiaweek list.

i'm proud to be educated by one of the top universities in asia :)

That may be true to a certain extent but i would not generalize Americans as slightly inferior to filipinos in terms of english. The same can be said to anyone who takes the tagalog class at different univerities. Those who are just learning tagalog as a second language are probably more grammatically correct than the average filipino. Just look at the different tagalog posts here in pinoy exchange. An uncle of mine who happened to visit the board exclaimed that he could not understand half of what was said here beecause the tagalog was all wrong. (he's a stickler for detail and had not been to the philippines in a while. )

chobas_angel

Jun 29, 2001, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by ibarramedia

That may be true to a certain extent but i would not generalize Americans as slightly inferior to filipinos in terms of english. The same can be said to anyone who takes the tagalog class at different univerities. Those who are just learning tagalog as a second language are probably more grammatically correct than the average filipino. Just look at the different tagalog posts here in pinoy exchange. An uncle of mine who happened to visit the board exclaimed that he could not understand half of what was said here beecause the tagalog was all wrong. (he's a stickler for detail and had not been to the philippines in a while. )

hey ibarramedia, ur from maryland din? what part?

tr|n|ty

Jun 30, 2001, 09:31 AM

I took part of my college education both in Manila(UP D) and here in the states. There's a big difference between both experiences.
College education in the Philippines seems more of a right. Everybody goes to college and has a leisurely time going to class(or skipping it). Among my friends, though many of them are exceptionally gifted, everybody was there just to pass. Only a small number exert effort to excel above the passing mark. Yes, i was part of that and i was lucky enough to get stellar grades but still, there was this feeling of "kayang kaya ko yan, stock knowledge lang yan". Another difference is the lack of "professionalism" among the professors in Philippine Universities. I personally found some of my professors in UP less than respectable. How can you learn something from somebody you don't respect? A lot of GE subjects in UP are taught by mere college graduates..what's up with that? ppl barely out of school and teaching you something straight out of the book. can we say boring? I also saw the lack of learning among the students, people don't learn anything, really. they just cram one night and pray to God that they pass. There's also a strange dependence on tests. and who can forget the lack of proper facilities? BUT despite of this, i respect my friends and family who finished college in the Philippines(especially those who graduated on time in Diliman). It's a hard fete to go to school where there's a million and one distractions and i give them that.

As for US education, particularly college education is treated as a priviledge. Not everybody goes to college and those who do go on take it seriously(well most not all). Most of my friends studied not just to pass but to get an A. I also like how the professors i had was both approachable and very respectable. They all had stellar credentials and i learned so much from them. As for English classes, trust me. it's hard over here. I was one of the top English students in my hs and in UP and even got a perfect score on my TOEFL but grammar and reading comprehension is way, way different from writing papers that discussed its in depth meaning. I worked very hard just to get a decent grade and never worked that hard before. And a lot of my friends and classmates were very driven and knew what they wanted, this made me feel like i have to work my as$ off to get what i want because these people are just going to eat me alive.

It's not a matter of which institutions are better, i believe that culture plays a big part of the educational system. Talent-wise, the Philippines is overflowing with great talent. The thing that lacks is motivation and an academic seriousness.

chobas_angel

Jun 30, 2001, 12:37 PM

what is lacking w/ us is discipline. that's why japan is more successful than the philippines. that's why it's traffic in manila (aside from it being overpopulated).
the company that i'm working at right now (in the US) also has a branch in manila. lagi silang nagkakaproblema sa manila branch. lagi ko silang naririnig na pinapagusapan yun. mali-mali daw kasi yung mga ginagawa. careless daw, hindi accurate ang pag-check ng data.
i admit that i am one of those students in college who study just to pass, not really to learn. all i wanted was to pass my subjects and graduate. so yeah, culture plays a big part of the educational system. filipinos have great potential but lack discipline.

lasallite

Jul 2, 2001, 02:35 PM

Palagay ko, walang-wala ang mga unibersidad dito sa Pilipinas.

Andami-dami nang mga ads ang nilalabas ng mga kolehiyo dito na nagsasabi na okey na ang kanilang standards.

These ads will only take our education system so far.

Kulang na kulang ang kalidad sa ating mga paaralan. UP, La Salle, Ateneo --wala pang sinabi ang mga ito.

Malayo pa ang ating aabutin.

ibarramedia

Jul 3, 2001, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by chobas_angel

hey ibarramedia, ur from maryland din? what part?

I'm from silver spring

chobas_angel

Jul 3, 2001, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by ibarramedia

I'm from silver spring

ey, i often go there to visit my relatives. but i'm from germantown :)

ibarramedia

Jul 3, 2001, 07:40 AM

I have a lot of friends from germantown, gaithersbug, montgomery county area. Back in the days, i used to drive to the baltimore area , prince george's county, montgoery county, northern virginia, washington dc area. Used to rack up 200 miles a day. Did a lot of corousing as well as work, studies.

Archdruid

Jul 3, 2001, 10:22 AM

Naiba yata ang usapan, Ibarra and Cholas. Well, I am from Bethesda, Maryland. Cholas, look at your private message. Will write later, Ibarra. Maybe we could have a get together some time. Silver Springs, btw is quite near Bethesda.

I probably can put my two cents' worth on the subject. I was a UP student, taught at La Salle, and studied in two American universities. Though University of Florida might not be in the first tier of American universities, it is one of the best schools in journalism in the United States. I also studied MFA Film in Temple in Philadelphia, Bill Cosby's alma mater. The film program is among the best in the United States.

I must say that UP is among the best schools in the world, especially during the sixties and the seventies, that effectively helps students develop critical thinking. I studied in American universities, and I could safely say that one difference is technology. I guess resources is a criterion for ranking, and it won't surprise me that Philippine universities are not on the top ten. But this does not mean that being ranked in the lower 100 is a bad thing. We are still after all in the first tier in Asia. This is just a reminder that maybe we could do better, such as getting more resources chanelled to our universities.

It is useless to punish ourselves if we don't make it to Oxford, Wharton or whatever. Getting an education is important in itself. Having a snooty attitude like saying that you should make it to first class, and then castigating the hoi polloi for their lack of discipline are just exercises in futility. The attitude does not shed light on the mechanism of underdevelopment that has brought these problems to Philippine education.

Having taught cinematography once in De La Salle, I found many promising students in my classes. The teacher has a gargantuan responsibility to inspire these students to do their best. Teaching after all is also communication. It is a two way street, and if the channels are clear, then you get the best results.

But I found the best learning achieved not from promising students, but students who were considered hopeless by many of the teachers. Not knowing who they were, I accepted a group of girls as thesis advisees who were making a film on Campo Sampaguita, a medium security prison. Though they admitted that they lacked technical knowledge, I accepted them because nobody wanted them. They had spunk however, and had the desire to do their best in their last trimester. What came out was the best thesis film. I think what made the difference was that they knew I trusted their capability. Motivation is a key factor. Teachers should inspire, and discipline from students will follow naturally.

If we look at our so-called undiscipline, happy go lucky students differently, and see them as diamonds in the rough, who knows what can be achieved?

chobas_angel

Jul 3, 2001, 04:09 PM

is this now the "pinoys in maryland" thread? :D
hehehe... check ur private msg arch, i replied...

victory

Jul 3, 2001, 05:55 PM

"If we look at our so-called undisciplined, happy go lucky students differently, and see them as diamonds in the rough, who knows what can be achieved?"

-- Ganda, Archdruid.

aldogucci

Jul 4, 2001, 12:40 AM

I just read something in the Asian Wall Street Journal today that doesn't bode very well for the Philippine educational system. In Asia, the Philippines will have the largest increase in school age children between 2001 and 2020, at a 31% increase. The more highly developed Asian nations, such as South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, and HK are all projected to show a DECREASE in school age kids of around 20% to 28%.

Basically, this just means that unless the per capita GDP of the Philippines starts to rise soon (and by a large amount), we will be even further behind all the other Asian countries educationally, economically, etc. All other countries will have lower student:teacher ratios and will be able to reallocate more money towards enhancing the skills of the current work force.

My suggestion: Filipinos should wear condoms indefinitely. Or until further notice.

Archdruid

Jul 4, 2001, 05:07 AM

Thanks a lot, victory.

Your kind words are little victories that I will value.

I think a key to improving education is motivation. For me, the difference between an A student and an F student is motivation. Sometimes, without being condescending, there are genuises among the F students. On one hand, I see it as underachievement. On the other, it is failure, not from students, but from teachers.

We can do a lot of things to improve our educational system. Yes, maybe we lack the resources, or our teachers need better pay so that they don't have to sell longanisa on the side. But without that forthcoming, we could probably start the change in ourselves. Change ourselves so students can be more inspired to their tasks.

Aldogucci... the projections of Asian Wall Street Journal seem so high. The rate of bulking up the school age doesn't seem plausible. Unless we have a much greater growth rate than before. Though this certainly needs reserach, I wonder if there is a statistician who could verify this. I am wary of information that comes from other Asian cities.

Archdruid

Jul 4, 2001, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by chobas_angel
is this now the "pinoys in maryland" thread? :D
hehehe... check ur private msg arch, i replied...

Not a bad idea. Maybe you should start a thread like that somewhere in Pinoy Exchange.

Check ur private msg too, chobas...and ibarra media. It's nice to know that there are Pexers in this part of Maryland. Any other Marylanders? Maybe we can start a fund drive for Philippine universities. :)

victory

Jul 5, 2001, 06:34 AM

My pleasure and honor, Archdruid. I'm a teacher myself, and I've always believed in the potential of educators to show students a better way. When I was an apathetic, high school student, deeply disturbed by my father's untimely passing and without a clue of what I wanted or could do with my life, I was fortunate enough to be taken under the wing of fantastic teachers and mentors who showed me how I could channel my energies towards good ends. They believed in me even when I had nothing to show for it, or even when I pretended not to care. In my four years in College I made up my mind that I would be a teacher, too, and believe in my students just as much as my mentors believed in me. Now don't get me wrong -- I had a lot of dud teachers in College, too. But those mentors who changed my life made up for the "dud teachers" I went through.

Philippine education has a long way to go, and in previous posts here in PEx I've tried to address the grim end game that our country's institutions have been playing these past few years, in the language of my field of political economy. But we have good people out there slaving away -- however, the academe cannot change the world by itself. We need institutions like business, government, NGOs, etc., to propel our country forward. We must all do our part, in our own small way, to help out. Now that's not exactly the most self-interested of mantras; sort of goes against some of my training in economics, but as far as I can tell it's the only way we can progress as a whole.

On a lighter note, I am not from Maryland, but I am based in neighboring Philadelphia! :)

Archdruid

Jul 5, 2001, 06:58 AM

Interesting, Victory. We need more teachers who can inspire and motivate like you.

Philadelphia, baka kilala kita? I stayed in Philly in the eighties, and took up filmmaking in Temple. Sa UPenn ka ba?

BTW, my family and I are now in the World Open being held in Adam's Mark Hotel at City Avenue. The Open is one of the biggest chess tournaments in the United States, and is held in your hometown.

But I know a lot of people who have studied, worked in Philadelphia, and make it a point to go to the Philippines to help out. My family and I in fact went back during the Cory years to do our share, in our own non-political way. Medyo nag-iba lang ang ihip ng hangin recently.

To think about it, we should join a mentoring program, or if there is none, form one that can harness the skills of retired executives and professionals to help out. Though I still have many years of productive work ahead of me, I try to find time for those who would need some mentoring in my particular field. After all, money is just one of many concerns that can gratify us.

aldogucci

Jul 5, 2001, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by Archdruid

Aldogucci... the projections of Asian Wall Street Journal seem so high. The rate of bulking up the school age doesn't seem plausible. Unless we have a much greater growth rate than before. Though this certainly needs reserach, I wonder if there is a statistician who could verify this. I am wary of information that comes from other Asian cities.

When you think about it, they're not high at all. I don't know the exact numbers, but I think over half the population in the Philippines is under the age of 25. Between now and 2020, a lot of those people will have had children. All it takes is a 1.5% annual growth rate to get that 31% number......and I think that's a slower growth rate than what the Philippines is currently experiencing.

As I see it, we will continue to fall behind our Asian neighbors with regard to education, which means we will fall behind economically as well.

victory

Jul 5, 2001, 05:37 PM

What was your major in College, aldogucci?

The issue you raised about the link between demographics, education and economic development is indeed serious; however, the question can be sharpened a little more if you want to think about how the "problem or issue" might be alleviated or solved:

1. India has had more universities per capita than the US for some time now (many with very high standards), and yet it's only in the past two or three years that its economy has begun to take off, because of the huge demand for tech workers. Why didn't its economy take off before? Why were Ph.D.s in India sweeping streets, and why were Ph.D.s from the Philippines working as domestic helpers? What is the link between a particular country's stage of economic development and what its "educated workforce" will do upon obtaining their "advanced degrees?"

2. Population growth can be explained both by "internal reasons" (i.e., birth rate, etc.) and "external influx" (i.e., migration). The more important question is WHERE population growth and the change in demographics is occurring: Is the population burgeoning in "productive" sectors, where the demand for labor is high and the increased supply of labor (even if it will be in the future) will be welcome? Or is our population growing in "less productive areas" and actually caving out in "more productive ones?" For example, what kind of aspirations do Philippine College graduates have these days, regarding migrating to 'greener pastures' in first world countries?

And so the problem isn't as simple as "improving the state of education," for then I would ask, "which level of education needs the most attention?" (RE: Do you think Raul Roco is doing a good job focusing on public schools? :)) I would also ask whether "it is correct to churn out so many college graduates with no place to go, with depressed wages, perennially underemployed in positions that demand perhaps only 10% of the skills they've acquired." And therefore, is the title of your post in need of a little revision? Should we be focusing on UNIVERSITIES at this stage in our economic development, or on primary and secondary schools? :)

Or is the question wrong? Is it not the supply of labor (birth rate, migration, etc.) we must control (after all, we can impose migration controls and zone licensing and prevent our people from migrating from rural to urban areas, like China used to do, right?), but the demand for labor -- i.e., encourage productive firms to invest real assets in the country and increase the demand for our workers? Should we try and control both? What do you think the DOH has been trying to do since the time of Juan Flavier? What kind of work has to be done to make sure our public and private enterprises are given proper incentives to propel the country forward? Would you like to be in President Macapagal-Arroyo's position and try your hand at running the country, given our political economy? :)

Finally, some food for thought: How come the rate of population growth slows down (in general) as countries industrialize? Do people just "start wearing condoms" and/or "refrain from sex" as countries develop? Or do they just suddenly develop an "aversion to having babies?" What do you think? Think in terms of "opportunity cost of having children." Do the poor people in the Philippines "forgo wages" to have kids, or do they even have access to income-earning opportunities? And given the absence of, and/or high cost of obtaining, income-earning opportunities, and persistently low wages in the formal sector for blue collar workers, isn't it therefore "rational" (max benefits, min costs) for them to simply be "lazy," "beg for alms" and use up their time "making babies?" :)

I apologize for perhaps "being too Socratic" about these issues, but if I gave you my answers outright, it may not sink in as well. What are your answers to these questions? They may lead you to think about what needs to be done to truly help our country. "Wearing condoms" as you suggested may help (Juan Flavier tried that a long time ago and it's still in place now, but how far has implementation gone? And ask yourself why), but it won't go too far in helping our country move forward until we focus on a few of the causal variables I've hinted at in this overly long post.

Bernd

Jul 7, 2001, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Archdruid
......
I must say that UP is among the best schools in the world, especially during the sixties and the seventies, that effectively helps students develop critical thinking. I studied in American universities, and I could safely say that one difference is technology. I guess resources is a criterion for ranking, and it won't surprise me that Philippine universities are not on the top ten. But this does not mean that being ranked in the lower 100 is a bad thing. We are still after all in the first tier in Asia. This is just a reminder that maybe we could do better, such as getting more resources chanelled to our universities.

It is useless to punish ourselves if we don't make it to Oxford, Wharton or whatever. Getting an education is important in itself. Having a snooty attitude like saying that you should make it to first class, and then castigating the hoi polloi for their lack of discipline are just exercises in futility. The attitude does not shed light on the mechanism of underdevelopment that has brought these problems to Philippine education.
.........

I agree with you guys that the Philippine universities can still compete with the best universities in the world.
If there would only be a more dynamic collaboration between the many local universities, and with international ones, then probably, overall, the Philippine educational system would improve and mature. A healthy competition is okay but I think more cooperation among the schools would really make a difference. One specific example is sharing of library resources and research materials. In the US, almost all libraries (both private and state universities) are open to anyone. Interlibrary loans of books are common.

From my perspective, despite the financial difficulties they are experiencing, I believe that institutions like UP can still provide adequate academic training to their graduates to be competitive with the rest of the world. They might not have the state-of-the art technology and facilities, but with some innovation, dedication and hard work, the students managed to learn enough and to be prepared for all kinds of battle. Every year, a significant number of graduates from the department I went to are being accepted in prestigious graduate schools in the US, Europe and Japan. And they are performing well; many of them are already university professors and scientists in major international research centers. It is not unlikely that in the future there would be a Nobel prize winner from among them. Others opt for the more lucrative jobs in industries or start up their own companies, while many also return to the Philippines to teach or work there.

The Philippine universities should really start to effectively mobilize their alumni-fund campaign. I think most of the money of the Ivy league and other big schools are generated from endownments from alumni. For graduates of Philippine universities, instead of spending so much on extravagant alumni-parties, don't you think it is wiser to just donate or contribute money towards the improvement of your alma mater?

Archdruid

Jul 8, 2001, 06:10 AM

Originally posted by Bernd

The Philippine universities should really start to effectively mobilize their alumni-fund campaign. I think most of the money of the Ivy league and other big schools are generated from endownments from alumni. For graduates of Philippine universities, instead of spending so much on extravagant alumni-parties, don't you think it is wiser to just donate or contribute money towards the improvement of your alma mater?

Nice touch, Bernd. I don't mind parting with some funds if I know where it would go. Never attended any extravagant alumni parties, but I would be glad to meet like-minded people who could cook up something to help our universities. I wonder if there is an alumni official of UP based in the United States. It would be interesting to know about its programs.

To tell you the truth, every year I receive a letter from the alumni association asking for donations. I just junk it because I really don't know where the money would go. I am just worried that it might just go to social activities and not to worthwhile causes. If I have to part with my money, I need to funnel it to a concrete program. The discussions on this thread have made me realized that we could do something to make a difference. The debate on how our universities compare with the rest of the world leads to one very important conclusion: we should help our universities keep up with the demands of the times.

So how are the alumni associations of other schools doing? I would be happy to assist my alma mater. What is needed now is a good marketing approach. We can take-off from some ideas expound in this thread and come out with a plan to channel money for the improvement of our universities. If you have ideas, post it here in Aldogucci's thread. With Pinoy Exchange making it possible to effect changes, and with a wide world to reach out there through the internet, maybe we can start our first steps in this fruitful journey.

Bernd

Jul 13, 2001, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by Archdruid

The discussions on this thread have made me realized that we could do something to make a difference. The debate on how our universities compare with the rest of the world leads to one very important conclusion: we should help our universities keep up with the demands of the times.

So how are the alumni associations of other schools doing? I would be happy to assist my alma mater. What is needed now is a good marketing approach. We can take-off from some ideas expound in this thread and come out with a plan to channel money for the improvement of our universities. If you have ideas, post it here in Aldogucci's thread. With Pinoy Exchange making it possible to effect changes, and with a wide world to reach out there through the internet, maybe we can start our first steps in this fruitful journey.

Ooops, the PEx Academe section is being swamped with other topics and threads; we better share and post our thoughts before this topic disappear into oblivion.

Right on, Archdruid. We could (should?) make a difference.
So the question now is how. Dear PEx readers, please post your ideas and plans of action.
Look back and please be grateful for the experiences, the training, the education you have obtained. Though financially or time-challenged, we can help.

Case example
Before we had this "journals/publication drive" for our department library. The impoverished university cannot afford to subscribe to many current journals which the students badly need; so a group of alumni mobilized to subscribe to several important journals and send them home. It did not last that long, after all how much money can a group of poor starving grad students spare. But if we had a better organization and connections then, we could have continued it on. In this new century of electronic-journals, probably it would be much cheaper to mail CD-roms or send resources to the internet.

gpov

Jul 16, 2001, 12:47 AM

OK ang idea niyo. I believe most graduates would be willing to help out. I for one would contribute to my alma mater (UP) but how?

I wouldn't want my donation going to waste.

rgds gpov

boardbuster

Jul 16, 2001, 09:38 AM

When educators place too much weight and emphasis on test results, what would you expect? Of course, the students will focus on just passing the test. They would even go to lengths of finding out about tests and exams that were administered a year or two or eve three years ago by the same instructor on the same subject matter.
Professors, instructors and techers should have more waysof measuring a student's performance, not by just tests alone. Other ways of measuring performance may include submission of term papers, dissertations, research papers; also grading oral participations in class. But these would require additional effort for the instructors to read, correct and do some additional quantitative and qualitative evaluation of the papers and oral presentaions.

GARFIELD M

Jul 23, 2001, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by Sunny_Orange
maraming pinoy ang matatalino, di ko nga alam kung bakit di tayo kasing unlad ng US at japan, may student ang mommy ko sa Grade 2, sa isang baranggay school nag-migrate sila sa states pagdating dito honor student sya, yung friend ko dito nag HS sa states, na-accelerate tapos mag-ma-magnet school sana kaso kulang sa residency .. yun friend kong nurse graduate ng USTE sya ang nagtuturo sa kasamahan nya na graduate ng NUrsing sa Us at iba pang countries, ako lang eh, mas magaling pa ako sa kasamahan ko dito eh pareho lang kaming software engineer!

yun lang!

This is true...Nursing in the States is only a vocational course and so they work even with little knowledge about Nursing...Ours are Bachelor's degree holders and are accredited by the US academic regulating agencies. The only stumbling block to our nurses who are newcomers to the US hospitals are the language barrier and the terminologies used.
:cat:

chinatown

Jul 31, 2001, 01:45 AM

Originally posted by lilldude26

The MAIN difference between World-class Universities like Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc. and Philippine universities is the amount of Tuition fees they charge annually.

...the amount of Tuition fees they charge annually.<-- "tuition fees" is redundant. tuition is enough. :)

Archdruid

Jul 31, 2001, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by gpov
OK ang idea niyo. I believe most graduates would be willing to help out. I for one would contribute to my alma mater (UP) but how?

I wouldn't want my donation going to waste.

rgds gpov

I develop websites, and would be happy to make one that will galvanize some action to help out our favorite universities. If interested, post your ideas or private message me. Initially, I think information about the thrusts and needs of these universities will be helpful.

zimdude

Oct 29, 2001, 06:47 AM

Very enlightening discussion, I hope we can share more... I'm very interested to know how it is in universities outside the Philippines even as I have never had the chance to study at one.

rao

Oct 29, 2001, 12:20 PM

The Philippines doesn't have an enlightened economic elite. Our economic elite has this propensity for easy money. They just go into trading, they import things most of the time, and thus, our universities are not geared for research. Hardly anybody does research because there's no funding, there is no funding because most Philippine universities have no research track record... and so it goes... the chicken or the egg?

If our economic and political elite are enlightened, then, we, as a nation, will cease to be satisfied with just buying and operating the contraptions of other countries. We will strive to make our own. Why do you think is Michigan good? Because the motor companies of Detroit poured a lot of research money into it. And the list goes on... Univ of Minnesota and 3M, Stanford, Berkeley and Silicon valley...

In Korea, they even have this Postech, Pohang University of Science and Technology (# 2 in the damned Asiaweek 2000 survey). It was founded with the help of Pohang Iron and Steel Company.