PDA

View Full Version : Planning to study in the US?


hunter_alchemst
Aug 22, 2008, 10:30 AM
A Primer on Graduate Schools in the US
By RAUL P. LEJANO

When I left home for the States many years ago, as my folks wisely told me to get a graduate education. I said I would be back in a year or two. Well, the year or stretched on and on, and now, I find myself, years later, with many graduate degrees, no marketable skills, and few career options other than being a Filipino academic in the US.
Nowadays, I see students applying to graduate schools all over the world—Belgium, Japan, the Netherlands, etc. This is great. How amazing it is to find so many great institutions in so many places. But I am knowledgeable only about graduate schools where I teach, so this is what I will take up in these few pages.
There are two kinds of universities in the US—teaching universities and research universities—both important, and both of interest to us.
For those interested in undergraduate studies, many teaching universities provide a wonderful education. For more advanced degrees (Master’s and Doctoral degrees), some of the world’s best research universities are to be found in the US. Of the research universities in that country, the most excellent (though this is always debatable) to me has always been the University of California, Berkeley.
Other great research universities have names that are familiar to most—MIT, Princeton, Harvard, Columbia and UCLA (which, before I came to the States, I knew only because of the legendary basketball player, Lew Alcindor). Less known over here are other equally excellent institutions such as the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor, the University of Wisconsin at Madison, etc. In terms of intellectual substance, ranking mean next to nothing—but they do matter if you decide to embark on an academic career in the States.

GETTING INTO A GOOD UNIVERSITY
There are some common mistakes that I see people make in the application phase. Mine was knowing nothing about the graduate schools before entering the fray. I went pretty much by what I saw in the brochures and so, I thought, wouldn’t it be nice to attend the University of Vermont (where I saw pictures of white-water rafting) or Rice (the brochure showed a very diverse student body) and never occurred to me to look at rankings, until my parents told me to apply to a school whose name they had actually heard of (and hence I applied to Berkeley). But most people now are less naïve than I was then.

Apply to several schools
It is a common mistake not applying to enough schools. People pick their two or three dream universities and apply to those.
So, let me be precise: when applying to graduate schools in the States, apply to at least seven, and even more if you can. Pick three or four from among the most prestigious class of universities, and three or four back-up schools.
Yes, I know application fees are expensive but, in this case, it would be penny-wise and pound-foolish and wanting a kingdom for a horse (Shakespeare in Richard III). By not spending that extra $50 on one more application, you may be foregoing the chances of receiving a fellowship that pays $40,000 a year. Even if your credentials are superlative, a university may admit you without any financial assistance because the department simply does not have the funding.
You need to apply to many to stand a chance of getting a good offer. In fact, the ideal is to be accepted into at least two institutions because then you can actually, believe it or not, play one offer against the other and negotiate a better package.
Apply to both public and private institutions. My mother attended exclusively private schools (NYU, Columbia), and I went the public route—but option is great, so consider both. Yes, private universities have higher tuition fees, but they also have the most money for fellowships, assistantships, and the like. I knew none of this when I was applying.

Submit your application early
Be professional in all things. You can submit your application material late, but that ensures you of not getting any financial assistance, or worse, an automatic rejection.
Sitting on an admissions committee once, I received an inquiry from someone who wanted to turn in her application material a month late. Hers was a strong application. But I did not know how to tell her that, well, the committee had already gone through all the applications, and that we were just too busy to schedule an extra meeting, so sorry.

Take the entrance test
Since you were a pretty good student here at home, you would instantly be accepted into the best schools there. Not immediately though, because graduate school applications have become a bit of a game, and you have to play it. Part of this game is the entrance test. Most universities will require you to take the Graduate record Examination (GRE), a universal test administered by a company in New Jersey.
You may be bright, just show up on the test day, wing it, and get a good score, but that may not be enough. It was different in my time, when you treated it like just another IQ test. Today, you have to spend at least a few months reviewing for it. Nowadays, it is becoming common to get applicants from China or Korea with perfect GRE scores of 1600—that’s the competition you are up against.
You are also disadvantaged because, as it turns out, our most hallowed universities in the Philippines, like UP or UST and the like, hurt students by being so stingy with the grades. A grade point average of 3.0 from Ateneo may be regarded as okay along Katipunan, but to admissions committees in the States viewing your file against the scores of American students sporting GPAs of 4.0 and higher (I do not understand how one gets a GPA higher than 4.0), 3.0 just looks drab. Believe me, you can argue that standards in institutions elsewhere are tougher than in the States but admissions committee members who are typically deluged with other committee work, will simply screen your application away.
I was once a visiting lecturer at Ateneo and taught a course on environmental policy. At the end of semester, the department chair asked me what grades I intended to give. I said, “I’m happy with their participation and the effort they made, and yes, I would like to give everyone an A.”
But he set me aside and admonished me, “No, you can’t, nobody does that, try not to give A’s.”
Anyway, if your college GPA is below 3.3, you will need to study extra hard I order to get a GRE score of at least 1250 (that’s combining the math and verbal scores). If you want to get into MIT, your GRE had better be at least 1350. If you score low on the GRE the first time, consider taking it a second time since the higher score is what gets reported. If you need to take the Test of English as a Foreign Language (TOEFL), sign up for the Internet Based Test of English as Foreign Language (IBTOEFL) version, because a high score on the spoken portion of the IBT (eg, 26 or higher) is sometimes required by universities for international student to qualify for teaching assistantships.

Present letters of recommendation and a letter of interest
Did I mention that this has become a game? So, part of the game is getting glowing, in fact, stupendous letters of recommendation. They need to be from professors (not friends, relatives, politicians, or celebrities) you had either taken a class with or done research for. Pick those professors whom you know are impressed by you (or, if none, pick those kind-hearted ones who would write a great letter at the drop of a hat).
Even more importantly, write an intelligent, professional letter of interest. The letter of interest should not be about the soap opera that is your life or a forum for sharing intimate details, and such. Admissions committees are turned off by these. Why? Because, keep in mind what they are looking for—highly professional, research-savvy, sophisticated thinkers who can do research and original thinking without much hand-holding. They want a letter that shows that you have thought about the research issues in this field, that you have an ambitious intellectual agenda, and that you have great capacity for research. So, do yourself a favor and, before writing the letter, do some research—about some intellectual problem that you can touch on (concisely but not too briefly), about the department you are applying to, etc. You need to sound independent, entrepreneurial, and motivated. Remember, this is graduate school. Do talk about your experience, but those that enrich your intellectual and professional life, such as working in a refugee camp in sub-Saharan Africa, running a local office of Habitat fro Humanity, managing a gourmet coffee shop, etc.

(TO BE CONTINUED…pagod na ako mag-type.) :rotflmao:

RAUL P LEJANO’s academic career:
BS Civil Engineering (cum laude), UP (1984); MS in Environmental Engineering, UC Berkeley (1986); DEnv, Environmental Science and Engineering, UCLA (1992); PhD, Environmental Health Science (concentration: policy analysis), UCLA (1988); Visiting Assistant Professor at MIT, Department of Urban Studies and Planning (2000-2002); Assistant Professor at University of California, Irvine (2002-2007); Associate Professor, Dept. of Planning Policy and Design, at the same university (2007-).

Published in Life Today, August-September 2008. ISSN 0116-6441

physicist
Aug 22, 2008, 03:33 PM
Tiyaga mong mag-type ah. But thanks for the effort. This should be quite useful to those planning to study in the US.

Just a few comments. (And maybe more later).

It was different in my time, when you treated it like just another IQ test. Today, you have to spend at least a few months reviewing for it. Nowadays, it is becoming common to get applicants from China or Korea with perfect GRE scores of 1600—that’s the competition you are up against.


I took two GRE exams back in 2003: The General GRE, which is what the author is referring to as being more or less a basic math and verbal test, and the Subject GRE, which I guess is the closest thing to a board exam in physics.

After grades and recommendation letters, admission to physics grad school generally depends only on the Subject score, which is generally reported as a percentile score. (I know this because I've been a TA for our admissions chair).

The General GRE score is not a very good determinant for physics because everyone generally does exceptionally well in the quantitative part and equally poor in the verbal part. In our incoming class of 28, for instance, I don't know anyone scoring less than 790 (out of 800) for the quantitative part.

Nobody really studies for the quantitative part. It is ridiculously easy! But the verbal part is a completely different story. I spent the better part of a whole month stocking up on vocabulary, and I end up getting 600 out of 800 for my verbal score. On the other hand, I didn't review for the math part (except for the sample that comes with the registration CD) and got everything correct.

In the end though, neither of my General GRE scores mattered. They're prerequisites to all universities, but they're not what matter to physics departments.

You are also disadvantaged because, as it turns out, our most hallowed universities in the Philippines, like UP or UST and the like, hurt students by being so stingy with the grades. A grade point average of 3.0 from Ateneo may be regarded as okay along Katipunan, but to admissions committees in the States viewing your file against the scores of American students sporting GPAs of 4.0 and higher (I do not understand how one gets a GPA higher than 4.0), 3.0 just looks drab. Believe me, you can argue that standards in institutions elsewhere are tougher than in the States but admissions committee members who are typically deluged with other committee work, will simply screen your application away.
I was once a visiting lecturer at Ateneo and taught a course on environmental policy. At the end of semester, the department chair asked me what grades I intended to give. I said, “I’m happy with their participation and the effort they made, and yes, I would like to give everyone an A.”
But he set me aside and admonished me, “No, you can’t, nobody does that, try not to give A’s.”
Anyway, if your college GPA is below 3.3, you will need to study extra hard I order to get a GRE score of at least 1250 (that’s combining the math and verbal scores).

Very true.

Grade inflation in the US is so prevalent, it's hard to say how good 4.0 students really are. All of my American classmates had 4.0 GPAs from their undergrad days. (All Summa Cum Laude). But among all of them -- 13 total -- only 1 passed the physics preliminary exam on first take. Compare this to the 7 of us international students (out or 15) who passed on first take.

Most of my American classmates also struggled mightily with graduate classes.

Let me share you a story: At some point, one of my PhD committee members happened to see a copy of my CV. He was also my professor for two semesters of electromagnetic theory (a core PhD subject), for which I had worked really hard and finished second highest in class. So I pass this guy in the hallway one time and he confronts me asking, "So what did you do in college to get a GPA of only 3.5?" I could do nothing but shrug and explain that a 3.5 is pretty good where I went to college. He then jokingly said he had expected better of me. Oh well... :)

If you want to get into MIT, your GRE had better be at least 1350. If you score low on the GRE the first time, consider taking it a second time since the higher score is what gets reported.


The advice above may not apply universally. It varies depending on the area.

I sent applications to 4 schools, and 3 threw me offers. The one that got away was the University of Chicago, which some would say is even less known than MIT. My scores were as follows:

General, Quantitative -- 800 (out of 800)
General, Verbal -- 600 (out of 800)

GRE Physics -- 830 (out of 990), 82 percentile.

So I had a 1400 total for my General GRE. But my subject test was apparently low by UC's standards. At the time, I wondered why I wasn't even waitlisted for UC. So I naively called up the grad admissions secretary to inquire. (Yes, it was long distance!) In their website at the time they said that the average GRE physics percentile of incoming grad students was 80. Mine was 82, so I thought that I should have at least been given some consideration. Turns out, as the secretary explained, the 80 average was for ALL accepted applicants -- American and international. If one only looked at the international students' average, it's around 93! Ouch!!

So to physics students out there thinking of going to grad school: Be advised that there is a double standard for admissions. If you really want to get into a Top 10 (pure) physics grad program, a subject GRE less than 90th percentile is just not going to cut it. (Unless of course you're American, in which case even a 70 percentile score gets you in.)

But then again, there are so many good physics programs in the US. Don't despair if you don't make it to the top ten. The next 20-30 are quite exceptional as well.

hunter_alchemst
Aug 22, 2008, 08:28 PM
UPON ACCEPTANCE TO THE PROGRAM
What happens when you get accepted into a good university and arrive on the first day of school? You are confident, as you have always been a good, maybe a very good, student. You finished near the top your school at La Salle. Surely, graduate school will be a piece of cake. No, it won’t.
Here is what to expect: In general, your classes will not be intellectually beyond you—in fact, exams you took in college may have been longer and tougher than the ones they give in your new American university. But, here is the rub: the amount of work will be greater, far greater, than you have ever experienced in your life. Trust me. You will have to work harder than you have ever worked.
A typical thing a professor might do in planning a course is to imagine the amount of readings and the amount of work an excellent student might be able to do in one term—the number of chapters per week, the length of papers he/she might write and a bunch of stuff on top of it. Never leave professors wanting for more. We professors set the bar by the kind amazing students we remember ourselves to have been (but probably imagine ourselves being far better than we actually were). And what you did before does not count for much.
I cannot remember the number of valedictorians that have come and gone our way, and they’re mostly the same as everybody else. None of these things count for much. We are looking for brilliant people, not valedictorians.

Work professionally
Another thing to expect: you may believe that you are smarter than your classmates (and, in fact, you may well be), but in general, they are more savvy than you. They have learned to work more professionally and to compete better than you. I learned this with the very first term paper I had to write in the graduate school.
As was my modus operandi, I did not work on my paper until well into the semester. At UP, I had always saved all my studying for the day or two before the exam or when the paper was due—a strategy that served me well for many years. So, by the time I started working on the paper, you know what I found? The resources in the library had ALL been checked out by my more efficient and greedy classmates. They were competitive.
So, before you even touch ground in the States, make up your mind to be more efficient and professional than you have ever been. You will hate me for saying this, but I will always say Filipino college graduates (from the places I mentioned above and others) are smart, but they are, to a person, inefficient and unprofessional.
I am bemused, whenever I make a pitch fro more professionalism, to be told that, well, this isn’t the US, that’s not the way things are done her, etc, etc. As if a lack of professionalism and disorganization were endemic to Filipino culture. Well, it’s not, and you should reject the notion.

Be your very “best”
Not to say that you have to transform yourself into an American—that would, honestly, be not so great at all. I highly regard those international students who treat others (including professors) with more respect than the run-of-the-mill American graduate student does, or who know more intimately what poverty and suffering mean in many parts of the world.
The most cut-throat students do not make the best intellectuals. Pathos, ethics, and cooperation are necessary for the intellectual life. Only that you bring the best of yourself to the graduate experience and, well, learn to do things much more efficiently.

Avail yourself of financial assistance
There are a number of options, should you need financial assistance. The best is if your department offers you a fellowship right off the bat. A fellowship is a pile of money that they give you, period—but these are becoming more and more scarce.
Also good are assistantships where you work 10-20 hours a week and are paid somewhere in the vicinity of $12-17/hour, and often these positions will pay for tuition and fees also.
Teaching assistantships require you to help a professor manage a class, and research assistantships are nice as they sometimes get your name on a journal article or book chapter. Also always available are various, miscellaneous jobs on campus (eg, working in the library, driving a campus bus, etc).
If you have any resources, even meager, of your own that you can use for graduate school, state it in your application—this may actually increase your chances of admission and getting financial aid.

(TO BE CONTINUED)

Warwick Leyte
Aug 23, 2008, 02:17 AM
Amongst the Big3 schools (UP, AdMU, DLSU), the most notorious in grade deflation is DLSU. I think they produce Summa only every 10 years or so. That also probably explains why very few of them get accepted to top postgrad schools abroad.

UK unis don't camber grades as their American counterparts do. But education in the UK is relatively easier to manage than it is in the Philippines. UK Profs are generally caring to their students. I think that has become a culture in most UK unis, which I think is a good thing.

A summa in the UK is often referred to 1st Class Honour. Magna is 2:1.

green_overcomer
Aug 23, 2008, 02:16 PM
I got accepted for an MS at the University of Pennsylvania in 2001, but I didn't push through because I was informed by university officials that they do not provide scholarships to international students. What a sad day it was for me. :mecry:

villa214
Aug 23, 2008, 02:55 PM
Uhmm.. I am on my second year undergrad here in the Philippines.

When will be the best time to apply for grad studies in the US and other countries and where exactly are we gonna apply to? Do overseas schools have office here in Manila?

I'm Planning to take up medicine. Do application for grad school differs from application for med school?

Thanks:D I'll be looking forward to the response.

Erebos
Aug 24, 2008, 02:00 PM
^Bakit sa US pa? Dito ka na lang mag-med! ;) 'Yung ibang Phil-Ams nga dito nagmemed kasi mahal tuition doon eh. Pero sa US pa rin sila mag-iinternship at magppractice.

isQuash
Aug 24, 2008, 04:24 PM
Uhmm.. I am on my second year undergrad here in the Philippines.

When will be the best time to apply for grad studies in the US and other countries and where exactly are we gonna apply to? Do overseas schools have office here in Manila?

I'm Planning to take up medicine. Do application for grad school differs from application for med school?

Thanks:D I'll be looking forward to the response.

if you opt to pursue graduate studies in the us, make sure you submit your application around october to january before the school season begins around september. it's better to submit early since you are not the only one trying to make it to their system.

physicist
Aug 28, 2008, 03:08 AM
Amongst the Big3 schools (UP, AdMU, DLSU), the most notorious in grade deflation is DLSU. That also probably explains why very few of them get accepted to top postgrad schools abroad.

Maybe. Though I doubt that this is the reason.

While there is generally a minimum GPA of 3.00 (sometimes it's even 2.75), due to the large variance in university standards and grading systems, the standardized GREs, recommendation letters, and other things (e.g. research experience) tend to count much more than grades.

There is one Lasallian where I study (4 from UP-Diliman, 5 UPLB, 1 UP-Manila, 8 Ateneo). We once asked him (jokingly) why there are so few from La Salle going to graduate school abroad. (We're all good friends, by the way). It's ironic because although there's no surprise for there to be more from UP because of its size, La Salle is actually bigger than Ateneo.

His answer was quite simple: Lasallians are generally more excited about making money rather than studying further. Of course, that's just his answer. And as always, it's best taken with a grain of salt.

However, I also have a bright cousin who graduated near the top of his class (BS Math) in La Salle. I was once hell-bent on getting him to try grad school too, as I thought he would be a shoo-in to some grad programs. I emailed him constantly as he neared graduation and afterwards. But this was to prove useless. In the end, he accepted a trainee position with Rustan's, to which he gives this explanation: "Kuya, nakakatamad na mag-aral". Damn.

You know what though, considering how tough graduate school life can be and how little grad students are paid for the amount of work they do, there are times when I think Lasallians may have the right idea after all. :)

physicist
Aug 28, 2008, 05:02 AM
I got accepted for an MS at the University of Pennsylvania in 2001, but I didn't push through because I was informed by university officials that they do not provide scholarships to international students. What a sad day it was for me. :mecry:

Sorry to hear that. Funding for a terminal master's degree is scarce for foreign students. Perhaps you should have looked into their PhD program (if they had one in your area).

In the sciences, hardly any department offers a terminal MS degree, unlike in the Philippines. Here, a master's in physics (say) is consuelo given to those who either quit the PhD program or are forced out due to delinquencies.

It is generally easier to get funding in the "hard" sciences (ie. physics, chem, math) because they have a lot of so-called teaching assistantships, under which grad students are asked to teach a few classes in order to get full tuition and a stipend. Getting admitted may be difficult. But once you're in, you're practically guaranteed funding for 4-5 years.

This is also the case with the humanities (ie lots of teaching assistantships), but it's tougher because there's no shortage of Americans going to grad school in these areas. So foreigners are not as needed as they are in the sciences.

It appears to me that funding for engineering grad students comes mostly from research money, because engineering departments don't have too many of these "core" classes that they can just hand out to foreign applicants (unlike math, physics, chem, etc). Thus, it's harder to get funding as an engineering grad student.

(Here's an interesting aside. Despite the lack of teaching assistantships in engineering, there are still a HUGE number of Indian students who come here in these areas. Do you know what most of them do? They take out huge bank loans, using all their property as collateral. So they actually PAY for grad school! They finish a master's in two years, and then quickly start earning big bucks to pay off the bank loan. In their two years of study, they support themselves by doing odd jobs -- working in the library, waiting tables, bagging groceries, etc. But in the end, they end up quite well off. Naisip ko -- equivalent ng nursing sa atin! :))

My wife (who finished physics in UP-Diliman) was accepted to 6 engineering graduate programs in her first year of applying. Unfortunately, none of them offered her funding, so she had to wait another year. The next time she did, we shifted strategies, and I told her to apply to "Applied/Engineering Physics" PhD programs within physics departments instead. She was admitted to 3, all with funding. :)

hunter_alchemst
Sep 1, 2008, 06:24 PM
AFTER EARNING YOUR DEGREE

Aiming at becoming a professor?
I cannot end this rambling article without a word on becoming a professor in the States. This is just in case you become so enamored with your graduate experience that you want to stay in school forever. It is both the toughest and easiest of careers.
Getting in tenure-track assistant professor position is, nowadays, so competitive. You need a PhD (or sometimes an ScD or EdD). You had better have at least a publication or two by the time you hit the job market. For jobs in prestigious universities, it is common for the applicant pool to number in the hundreds.
What is also becoming more common is for nontraditional, hybrid career strategies—eg, getting a part-time adjunct or lecturer position in a university and working as a consultant or in a research thinktank.
Some carve out wonderful careers in the nonprofit or private world (eg, Muhammad Yunus, who left academia and founded the Grameen Bank, for which he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2006). But the traditional route is that of the tenure-track professor. In the US, the sequence is: assistant professor, associate professor, and senior or full professor. (But I visited Oxford last year, and all the titles and categories are different there).

Tenure of office
Common wisdom says that the first six years of a professor’s life (that is, pretenure) are grueling. Many marriages end and neuroses begin during the assistant professor phase. Some work from dawn till dark, break for dinner, then go back to work until the Late Night Show with David Letterman comes on. That’s every day. Then. Common wisdom has it that, if you manage this phase successfully and achieve tenure, then life becomes just so easy. Not exactly. First of all, once you learn to grind away at research, it becomes a part of you, and you work hard all throughout your career.
An esteemed friend of mine retired just last June and, since then, I estimate that she has put out four journal articles, two book chapters, and a book with MIT Press.
Research becomes, for many, an inextricable part of their life. But it’s not hard when you enjoy the intellectual journey. Things will enthrall you that you might have never imagined to be interesting. Hoax or not, you will be fascinated by Tasaday studies. You will be excited to discover that UST has an original copy of Copernicus’ Theory of Astronomy. You will wonder why water spins counter-clockwise as it goes down the sink.
Professors go on and on about tenure, so I might as well. Tenure is a notion that some bright professors conjured up decades ago. First, they realized that, if job security were to be tied to the real value of a professor’s career, what he/she adds to the GNP and society’s general well-being, then their jobs would be rather tenuous, to say the least. So they proposed this idea of tenure, which is that, after a six-year trial period, outstanding professors would go on to what is a permanent assurance of employment in their university (until retirement, of course). It’s a permanent job. And the rationale for it is academic freedom (ie, one needs not be beholden to any authority or employer to think independently).
To hear some professors talk, tenure sounds like petrification, which sounds bad, but is many an academic’s dream.

The challenge of tenure
Tenure is not the holy grail that common wisdom makes it out to be, but it is of value. In good institutions, the often unspoken requirements for gaining tenure can be challenging—eg, to have authored a book or two by the time you come up for tenure, plus having published three articles per year in the foremost journals in your field (they now have a ranking system for academic journals called the ISI, which is silly). Some very smart people never get tenure. In some places, you will not get tenure almost no matter what you do. I remember a department chair at MIT telling me, “For every nine assistant professors, we will give tenure to one, that’s it.”
Speaking as a Filipino, I somehow always felt the expectations heaped upon me were always just a little bit more. It’s hard to explain. You come across as being different and, when it comes to evaluations and tenure and credentialing, ‘different’ often translates to ‘more’. When I came up for tenure, it became known that apparently I was publishing twice what anyone else in the department was. Hard to explain why. I had just gotten used to working harder than the rest. And so, if you are thinking of becoming an academic in the States, you should expect that same. You will be different, and you will need to do more.

An Academic there, or here?
You should consider whether you want to be an academic here, or an academic there. Here and there, the professor’s life is the same yet different. First, I have seen so many professors here who have a flair for research but cannot get a chance to devote much time to it. Access to grant funding is a problem for the scientists.
More universally problematic, however, is heavy teaching loads. The heaviest loads I have seen are at UST, where faculty will be found teaching eight classes each semester. That is terrifying to me. No surprise that I find teachers here to be better teaching than me. To play the game here, you have to be a pretty good teacher.

Excellence counts
Finally, I call it a game, and it is true. But there is a larger truth that is not a game. And it is the fact that what counts is the strength of your ideas and the degree to which you will not compromise the intellectual pursuit. You cannot fake excellence. Playing the game will get you places, even tenure. But it will not get you excellence.
Graduate school is about embracing an intellectual life that can intrigue you the rest of your life. I can always tell the brilliant ones, there is an honesty about them. They take the challenges, good and bad, of higher learning with gratitude. Excellence requires the kind of humility that makes you realize that there are no short cuts, and that the truth is always something larger than us.

END.

green_overcomer
Sep 2, 2008, 08:57 PM
(Here's an interesting aside. Despite the lack of teaching assistantships in engineering, there are still a HUGE number of Indian students who come here in these areas. Do you know what most of them do? They take out huge bank loans, using all their property as collateral. So they actually PAY for grad school! They finish a master's in two years, and then quickly start earning big bucks to pay off the bank loan. In their two years of study, they support themselves by doing odd jobs -- working in the library, waiting tables, bagging groceries, etc. But in the end, they end up quite well off. Naisip ko -- equivalent ng nursing sa atin! :))

:)

This part of your post caught my attention. All along I thought that most Hindis were intelligent enough to bag a scholarship until I learned that what they do is take out loans and then earn after studies. My question is do these students usually remain to work in the US after graduation? What I know is foreign students can be allowed to work up to a year after grad and then after that they must convert to an H1B to become eligible for employment. Is this how it's done?

physicist
Sep 5, 2008, 03:59 AM
This part of your post caught my attention. All along I thought that most Hindis were intelligent enough to bag a scholarship until I learned that what they do is take out loans and then earn after studies. My question is do these students usually remain to work in the US after graduation? What I know is foreign students can be allowed to work up to a year after grad and then after that they must convert to an H1B to become eligible for employment. Is this how it's done?

I wouldn't rush to the conclusion that they're not "intelligent enough". But the fact is that many do pursue graduate school as their means of getting into the US, much like many Filipinos do this through nursing.

To your first question: Yes -- the idea of course is to find permanent work here after graduation. By and large, every Indian I know who is in this situation has been able to do this.

You're right. Foreign students are allowed to stay here and work after graduation. It is more than one year though; I think one can extend by 17 months. This is called OPT (Optional Practical Training), which allows F1 visa holders to be temporarily employed for a certain period of time after they finish their programs.

Converting F1 visas to H1Bs is still a bit hazy to me. But I think the employer helps in this process. Most of my Filipino friends here have unfortunately gone on to postdoctoral research appointments after finishing PhDs, which is quite a different scenario from those finishing just finishing a master's and then moving on to industry. In becoming a postdoc though, it appears that the transition from F1 to H1B is generally straightforward.

In a year's time I should be able to provide more specifics.

Lazy Bear
Sep 5, 2008, 10:09 PM
physicist's posts are very good. I'd like to add one or two more things:

First there is a strong distinction between Phd grad ed and professional degrees like MBA, JD, and MD. The advice above was almost exclusively for Phd. In many fields, you don't even apply for the MA program. Indeed, in many schools, MA's are terminal degrees while Phd students are given the MA upon completing comp exams or the equivalent. This varies from field to field and school to school but it is important to understand the distinction.

Also, it is much easier to receive funding as a PhD student than an MBA (or JD). For the latter there are often few or no grants. The reason? the MBA is seen as a money maker. Indeed, in most cases it is easier to get a high-paying job with a top MBA than with a Phd. For academia however, only research Phds count.

Second, I want to emphasize how minor a role teaching plays in the better schools (top 200 non liberal arts universities). In most cases, good pubs with poor teaching trump great teaching with few pubs.

Finally it really helps to know the specifics of the field. Applying because of the "general" reputation of the college, not the department is usually a big mistake that Filipinos make. Try to find faculty in Manila who have some idea what the good programs want and can help guide you where to apply.