to compsci students of DLSU and ADMU...

[alemrac]

umm... I'm HS senior... and I passed compsci in DLSU and ADMU (YAAAAAAAAAY!!!)

Anyway... I still dunno where I'm going for college... so... umm... could you please help me out? I'm aware that each school's compsci program has its own strengths and weaknesses... please share naman, o? It'll help me decide where to go for college... thanks... :)

[harry potter]

I had the same predicament then, but then I chose La Salle because of the proximity (pero malayo pa rin ako).

[paralusi]

trust your guts, and go wherever it tells you to go.

from the time you enter either school until you graduate, you would be brainwashed that it is better than the other that you will not have any second thoughts.

either way, it will be a good four years. enjoy.

[new_blood]

I'm a little biased about this, pero this is the truth:

The truth is ... yung mga teachers ng COMPSCI ng ADMU ay nag-aral at na-train sa lang sa DLSU.

The best talaga sa COMPSCI ang DLSU sa buong Pilipinas, OK at magaling din rin ang COMPSCI ng ADMU, pero humahabol pa lang sila in terms of academics and facilities.

So pare, sa DLSU ka na, kahit malayo, OK lang. (I take the MRT, then the LRT to go to DLSU).

PEACE!

[paralusi]

Originally posted by new_blood
I'm a little biased about this, pero this is the truth:

The truth is ... yung mga teachers ng COMPSCI ng ADMU ay nag-aral at na-train sa lang sa DLSU.

PEACE!

im not so sure about this. i know for a fact that my teachers back then were all alumni of the ateneo. most got their graduate degrees abroad.

[alemrac]

umm, new_blood, I'm a girl. :girl: (pare?) hehe OK lang.

Actually, DLSU is closer to where I live. (Alabang) If I end up in ADMU, I'm gonna dorm, which is something I'm looking forward to, actually...

[thatgirl]

i'm biased..

from what i know, DLSU was the first university to have a computer science program.. and like one person said during our pre-orientation last year, you get to learn more in DLSU being under a trimestral system.

[ginoledesma]

I'm not fully certain of the fact that AdMU's CS teachers trained/graduated from DLSU. Most of the teachers from the CS Department I know acquired their Masters degree from abroad. One in particular is finishing his masters right now at the Masachusettes Institute of Technology (MIT). Others have come from respectable schools as well...

To answer alemrac's question, its really a personal choice. Time and again I've been told of DLSU's superior Computer Science program, their facilities available, and the like. I personally would not be able to compare the training side by side as I've never studied in DLSU before. I am quite satisfied with Ateneo's approach of a holistic education. I learn things not necessarily related to Computer Science but those that might be very, very handy in the future. Who would've thought Philosophy, Psychology, and Literature would actually make a difference?

In any case, whatever choice you choose is a good one. Consider yourself very lucky to be able to choose from the best schools in the Philippines. In the end, its not necessarily the school that will matter, but your own determination and perseverance.

Whatever choice you make, however, be sure to try to get in touch with others not necessarily limited to your own campus. I've met people from other campuses, professions, and fields because I wanted to meet them. These people were not introduced to me by the school, but by others.

Since you're planning to take CS, let me be one of the first to welcome you to the CS track. :)

What made you choose CS, by the way? :)

[crescent]

i have a friend taking up cs in ateneo while i'm taking up cs in dlsu.
C++ is the first thing you learn in dlsu while java is the first programming language you learn in ateneo. frankly, i don't understand why java is the first language taught in ateneo. ang alam ko kasi, it would be better to learn C first because once you learn it, its easy na to learn all the others (including java). :confused: besides, java is gonna be taught to us in the 3rd term of 1st year din naman.
first year pa lang, marami nang computer related subjects ang dlsu.
its also true that you get to learn more under a trisem system.
i faced a similar problem in my senior year (iyon nga lang MIS ako sa ateneo) and i picked la salle.
1. it is nearer where i live (i'm also from the south). i didn't like the idea of living in a dorm. besides, mas malakas ang temptation sa dorm (based on the experiences of some friends living in dorms both in la salle and ateneo).
2. i believe that la salle is the best when it comes to CS. i was able to get a hold of the flowchart of MIS of ateneo and CS-IT of la salle at mas nagustuhan ko yung sa la salle.
3. i guess i'm la sallian at heart. i couldn't imagine myself in a school other than la salle.
well, i suggest you do some research. hanap ka muna ng flowchart ng ateneo at la salle and choose which one you like better. good luck! :D

[Fuegg]

Mayroon "COLLEGE of computer studies" sa la salle. Mayroon ba nito as ADMU?

Go to ADMU na lang. Dorm life is equal to nice(night) life!

[ginoledesma]

Frankly, I don't know why Java is the first P/L taught either, but its an easy enough programming language to learn, with some saying even simpler than C. But I guess the goal of teaching Java is to get OOP discipline into the students. The second thing learned in the CS curriculum is DS&A (Data Structures & Algorithms), then comes DBMS, then the rest.

We have to remember, however, that Computer Science = Programming. The word Science in Computer Science ought to be emphasized some more. You learn the theories and applications of algorithms and other methodologies in that you become a well-diversed individual with the knowledge of computing. Computer Science goes beyond programming. And everyone should know that. :)

[alemrac]

ginoledesma: I just really like computers, I guess. (naks, nerd) my dad and my bro are also into IT and computers, so I guess it rubbed off on me
thatgirl & crescent: pero how is it naman under the trisem system? I might not survive, hehe
Fuegg: conflicting ata yung sinabi mo, ah... :)

[thatgirl]

well.. it's pretty stressful.. but it's nothing you can't handle.. you'll get used to it..

[ginoledesma]

Originally posted by alemrac
ginoledesma: I just really like computers, I guess. (naks, nerd) my dad and my bro are also into IT and computers, so I guess it rubbed off on me

That's great to hear! Are you into hardware, software, or both? :)

Anyway, have a good time deciding. :)

[new_blood]

Originally posted by alemrac
ginoledesma: I just really like computers, I guess. (naks, nerd) my dad and my bro are also into IT and computers, so I guess it rubbed off on me
thatgirl & crescent: pero how is it naman under the trisem system? I might not survive, hehe
Fuegg: conflicting ata yung sinabi mo, ah... :)

In the trisem system, mas mabilis ang pacing (therefore it is much harder) pero you really get to learn more.

Sorry, girl ka pala. :D

Sa DLSU CCS may 4 specializations:

IT - business!
ST - programming!
IST - graphics!
CE - computer hardware!

Sorry, freshman pa lang ako dito, so wala pa akong specialization and I don't know much about this four. Pero once 2nd year ka na, you get to choose which specialization to take. :D

[new_blood]

Originally posted by paralusi
Originally posted by new_blood
I'm a little biased about this, pero this is the truth:

The truth is ... yung mga teachers ng COMPSCI ng ADMU ay nag-aral at na-train sa lang sa DLSU.

PEACE!

im not so sure about this. i know for a fact that my teachers back then were all alumni of the ateneo. most got their graduate degrees abroad.

Haha, actually, hindi rin ako sure dito, pero this is what I've heard. :D

[ginoledesma]

Originally posted by new_blood
In the trisem system, mas mabilis ang pacing (therefore it is much harder) pero you really get to learn more.

Which leads to the usual contention between span and depth. Whereas a trimestral system may cover a large span of general topics, the semestral system compensates for that with depth. One may be taking a lot of subjects in a trimestral system, but another may be much more well-versed in a semestral system...

Again, that will only lead to another argument regarding the benefits/disadvantages. For that, there is another thread which that can be discussed in. Suffice it is to say that both have their strengths and weaknesses. :)

[new_blood]

Originally posted by ginoledesma
Originally posted by new_blood
In the trisem system, mas mabilis ang pacing (therefore it is much harder) pero you really get to learn more.

Which leads to the usual contention between span and depth. Whereas a trimestral system may cover a large span of general topics, the semestral system compensates for that with depth. One may be taking a lot of subjects in a trimestral system, but another may be much more well-versed in a semestral system...

Again, that will only lead to another argument regarding the benefits/disadvantages. For that, there is another thread which that can be discussed in. Suffice it is to say that both have their strengths and weaknesses. :)

Yup, I agree that both have their advantages and disadvantages, but I prefer a large span of topics, that is why Comsci students from DLSU are adviced to study those topic comprehensively on their own. :D

[alemrac]

ginoledesma: software, I think... well, I'm pretty sure I'm not into hardware, so...
new_blood: what do you mean by "adviced to study those topic comprehensively on their own?" you're required to do extra studying? or you're not really required, but it's recommended?

Someone told me that DLSU's CS program is more technical, while ADMU's program is more well-rounded. Are there any truths to those claims?

[nuss]

Ikaw bahala ka... Pareho naman yang gahaman sa pera e.

Kung trip mo ang double-degree, mag-Ateneo ka.

Pero kung ako sayo, La Salle ka na!

[Momon]

Oy, alemrac, mag-Compsci na lang tayo sa Ateneo. 'Ala akong kasama dun eh. Wag na Lasalle. :) :D

[daylight]

DLSU!!! :)

[ziggyboy]

Believe it or not, here's CHED's OFFICIAL (yes, I PERSONALLY saw the official document issued by CHED. don't ask me how I saw it) ranking on CompSci colleges in the country.

1. De La Salle University Manila-College of Computer Studies
2. Ateneo De Manila University
3. University of the Philippines Diliman
4. Far Eastern University-East Asia College

[ginoledesma]

Originally posted by alemrac



Someone told me that DLSU's CS program is more technical, while ADMU's program is more well-rounded. Are there any truths to those claims?


Like nuss said, you decide. :) Both schools are good, and any school you choose will be fine.

As for the truth behind those claims, I cannot answer that, as it really depends on how you look at it. But taking it from the general point of view, yes, DLSU has a more technical/large-topic approach whereas AdMU's orientation is towards holistic/wholistic education.

I recall what a friend told me when I had the same dilemma as you: "Not everything is Computers, you know."

:)

[nastything]

I'm not from CCS but based on my friend's experiences, super daming projects ang ginagawa sa compsci. The program may be very technical yet very applicable because you get to practice it a lot. It's very easy to get a job once you graduate from compsci because La Salle is known for it. Well-rounded? Yes, La Salle is also well-rounded considering that you also take up philisophy, literateture, etc.. besides the techincal stuff. The teachers there are cool =]. Basically, it's up to you to decide. I found my home here in La Salle. Learning to cope with the trimestral system, no matter how hard and harrasing it may seem is so far the best training I received from this school. Ever wonder why a lot of Lasallians are tagged as "gimikeros" amid the trimestral system? and yes a lot of them manage to pass -- with flying colors(as in high grades). hhuummm.....
do some research and see which school fits to your needs and to your personality. go where you think you'd be happy. in the end, it's always what you make of yourself and with the education that you got that counts. Be grateful that you are given a lot of opportunities such as this. A lot of people here in the country don't have that opportunity. Good luck! Carpe Diem!

[alemrac]

more questions... sorry.

nuss: ummm can you please clarify "Kung trip mo ang double-degree, mag-Ateneo ka."? Do you mean that if I want to get a double degree, I should go to Ateneo?

Momon: hehehe! La rin akong kakilang mag-CS sa Ateneo. Oh well. EB? Hehe j/k :D

ziggyboy: hmmm... yung sa ranking, do you remember if there was a big gap between DLSU and Ateneo? Or where there no values given?

ginoledesma: what do you mean by a "holistic/wholistic" approach? (sorry!)

nastything: umm, about your comment "fits to your needs and to your personality." How do I know if my personality's for La Salle or for Ateneo?

sorry talaga for all my questions... and thanks to all those people who took time to reply... :angel:

[LeeYahGrl]

Hi there! :)

I'm from DLSU taking CS-ST, Computer Science majoring in Software Technology.

Anyways, I agree that DLSU has a very technical CS course but there are other things in La Salle that would help you be a more well-rounded individual. There are a lot of orgs to choose from!

In DLSU, it's only in your freshman year that the professors teach you how to use programming languages. When you reach your upper years, it's expected that you'll study the languages on your own. But professors do teach computer concepts and the likes.

And anyways, we don't only have computer subjects. We also have math, science, english subjects and others :)

What I like best about CS in DLSU is our building. I find it homey, unlike with the other courses. They transfer from one building to another. But with us CS students we only have one building and it's easier to meet and be friends with upperclassmen! It helps when you know a lot of people so they can help you out with projects and stuff :)

[sisig101]

Originally posted by LeeYahGrl
Hi there! :)

I'm from DLSU taking CS-ST, Computer Science majoring in Software Technology.

Anyways, I agree that DLSU has a very technical CS course but there are other things in La Salle that would help you be a more well-rounded individual. There are a lot of orgs to choose from!

In DLSU, it's only in your freshman year that the professors teach you how to use programming languages. When you reach your upper years, it's expected that you'll study the languages on your own. But professors do teach computer concepts and the likes.

And anyways, we don't only have computer subjects. We also have math, science, english subjects and others :)

What I like best about CS in DLSU is our building. I find it homey, unlike with the other courses. They transfer from one building to another. But with us CS students we only have one building and it's easier to meet and be friends with upperclassmen! It helps when you know a lot of people so they can help you out with projects and stuff :)

Ang ayaw ko lang sa La Salle ay yung Gokongwei building (Intellect).

Parang medyo segregated sa main campus. Para kaming nasa ibang mundo. Mas gusto kong mag-mingle sa Miguel at ang daming cute doon.

[LeeYahGrl]

Originally posted by sisig101
Ang ayaw ko lang sa La Salle ay yung Gokongwei building (Intellect).

Parang medyo segregated sa main campus. Para kaming nasa ibang mundo. Mas gusto kong mag-mingle sa Miguel at ang daming cute doon.


Well, depends on your point of view. I'm pretty much happy with Gokongwei. It's near La Casita, the Sports Complex and the parking lots!

[CK]

DLSU's compsci program is definitely better than ADMU's/ It's the BEST in the Philippines!!! :D

[ginoledesma]

Ateneo seems to refer holistic/wholistic education in that you are taught what you need to be whole, human, and generally, well-rounded. The core subjects of Ateneo includes English and Filipino writing/literature classes, as well as a flurry of Theology and Philosophy classes. Add to this Psychology, Sociology and Anthropology, Economics, Political Science, and several others. Basically, you come in as a student and are supposed to come out as an individual skilled, or at least well-versed, in almost all aspects. This is not to say that other schools do not have this idealism, its just that Ateneo seems to high-light this very much.

Regarding the facilities in DLSU, there is no doubt that they have superior facilities. There are barely enough computers in the entire Ateneo to satisfy all its students, although there are special/reserved labs for CS/MIS/CE majors.

The teachers in the Ateneo CS Dept are really cool, too. Ziggyboy should know Doc Mana, one of the premiere advocates of Linux in the Philippines. There're others also like Doc Luis Sarmienta, developer of Bayanihan, the Java-based parallel computing system, Doc Vergara, and several others.

Regarding double-majoring, I'm not sure whether this is true or not, but many people seem to find that it is quite easy to apply for a double-major in Ateneo. I know some people who have double-majors in Management Engineering (ME) and Economics Honors (EcoH), Computer Science (CS) and Management Engineering (ME), Physics and Chemistry (PsCh) and the like. A lot of the CE people take either Physics with Computer Engineering (PsCE) or Chemistry with Computer Engineering (ChCE).

Regarding personality... I'm not really sure about that. Its not really personality that matters. Simply saying so may tag you as one kind of person or another. Consider and evaluate your options. If you think one school fits your needs more than the other or that one school gives you more than what you need, then take it. Of course, needs here are pretty abstract. In the end, its really your choice. :)

Anyway, like I said before, the school is only there to help you reach your potential. Its you that makes the difference. :)

[sisig101]

Originally posted by LeeYahGrl
Originally posted by sisig101
Ang ayaw ko lang sa La Salle ay yung Gokongwei building (Intellect).

Parang medyo segregated sa main campus. Para kaming nasa ibang mundo. Mas gusto kong mag-mingle sa Miguel at ang daming cute doon.


Well, depends on your point of view. I'm pretty much happy with Gokongwei. It's near La Casita, the Sports Complex and the parking lots!


Oo nga pala. Yung paalis na ako, ginagawa palang yung Sports Complex. Hindi ko na naabutan. Mas maganda na siguro ngayon. Nandiyan pa ba yung "garahe"? ang sarap ng liempo doon eh. Pati yung sisig ng "Kaibigan" miss ko na.

[LeeYahGrl]

Originally posted by sisig101
Oo nga pala. Yung paalis na ako, ginagawa palang yung Sports Complex. Hindi ko na naabutan. Mas maganda na siguro ngayon. Nandiyan pa ba yung "garahe"? ang sarap ng liempo doon eh. Pati yung sisig ng "Kaibigan" miss ko na.


"Garahe" is still there but it was moved to a farther place. Near beach. There's a new eatery there, "Migos". The Sports Complex is pretty nice. It has parking space, the sports facilities, a bookstore (we don't have to go all the way to SPS!) and La Casita. "Kaibigan" is still around.

[crescent]

i'm very happy with gokongwei. it does feel homey. lahat ng kailangan ng isang cs student eh nandoon na. sarap pa tumambay sa lobby. i feel comfortable in goks. hehe at siyempre we have the best labs! :D

[sisig101]

Originally posted by crescent
i'm very happy with gokongwei. it does feel homey. lahat ng kailangan ng isang cs student eh nandoon na. sarap pa tumambay sa lobby. i feel comfortable in goks. hehe at siyempre we have the best labs! :D


Off topic na yata ako ah. Speaking of labs, buhay pa rin ba yung VAX?

Teka, maybe it would also help na malaman ng iba kung ano ang lab "setup" ng La Salle and ng Ateneo.

Can you guys elaborate more on DLSU-CCS and ADMU's lab facilities?

I would also like to know kung ano na ang projects na pinapagawa ngayon sa Compro. Back then in my Compro days(with Mark Miranda), ang project namin ay dos-based computer games(space invaders) using TPascal.

Mataas pa rin ba ang mortality rate ng CS? As I remember before, maraming nagiging irregular agad after the first term (up-to 60% in some cases).

[LeeYahGrl]

Originally posted by sisig101
Off topic na yata ako ah. Speaking of labs, buhay pa rin ba yung VAX?

I would also like to know kung ano na ang projects na pinapagawa ngayon sa Compro. Back then in my Compro days(with Mark Miranda), ang project namin ay dos-based computer games(space invaders) using TPascal.

Mataas pa rin ba ang mortality rate ng CS? As I remember before, maraming nagiging irregular agad after the first term (up-to 60% in some cases).


Hm. Lemme see. I can't really say much about the labs. I haven't been going to the labs in a long time since we've been bringing our pwn pcs to school (he he!) But the computers were upgraded last year. The computers run on Linux and different programming programs are installed in them.

Morality rate is still high especially after Compro1 and 2. Style of MPs are different na. They have this thingie called milestone week, like you have to submit 50% of the project (working) or basta whatever requirement that the teachers tells u to submit. I think teachers did this to prevent students from cramming their MPs into one week :)

[LeeYahGrl]

Originally posted by sisig101
Off topic na yata ako ah. Speaking of labs, buhay pa rin ba yung VAX?


Oh yah, there's no VAX anymore. I think they removed it 2 years ago or so.

[sisig101]

Originally posted by LeeYahGrl
Originally posted by sisig101
Off topic na yata ako ah. Speaking of labs, buhay pa rin ba yung VAX?


Oh yah, there's no VAX anymore. I think they removed it 2 years ago or so.

Just FYI. Yung internet sa La Salle started on it back in 1993. Back when I was a freshmen, we were heavily using it for role-playing chat games, telnet chat, email and lynx(a text-based browser). We did not even know that what we were doing is part of the so called "internet" revolution.

Initially, there was actually rumors spreading around that the college will be paying thousands of dollars in phone bills for what we were doing. Funny now but again, a lot of us (yes, even compsci studs) did not know the internet concept at first.

[sisig101]

From the posts above, I noticed that Ateneo is using Java for a lot of their projects. I'm just wondering what tools you guys use in developing java applications.

Gumagamit ba kayo ng IDE for Java (Kawa, Visual Cafe, JBuilder)? Anong klaseng projects ang pinapagawa sa inyo using Java? Pinapagawa ba kayo ng Servlets, Applets or Beans? Kasama ba sa pagtuturo yung OO methodologies?

[LeeYahGrl]

Originally posted by sisig101
From the posts above, I noticed that Ateneo is using Java for a lot of their projects. I'm just wondering what tools you guys use in developing java applications.

Gumagamit ba kayo ng IDE for Java (Kawa, Visual Cafe, JBuilder)? Anong klaseng projects ang pinapagawa sa inyo using Java? Pinapagawa ba kayo ng Servlets, Applets or Beans? Kasama ba sa pagtuturo yung OO methodologies?

The first time we used Java was during our OBJECTP days. OBJECTP is basically about OBJECT-oriented Programming. During my time, we were required to make a game, either an Applet or Application. We were not allowed to use IDEs during this time. So DOS mode kami. The reason for this so that we will be able to learn how to compile in java, like using the javac syntax and stuff like that.

Then just last year, for our INTRODB (Introduction to Database), we(my group, other groups used visual basic. we were free to use any programs as long as we will be able to create our project. some even used jsp or asp) used Java to access databases. So basically we used servlets. That time we were allowed to use any IDE.

[zimdude]

Just some insights from a (relatively) ancient AdMU CS grad (1995) - so it might not be valid anymore. I didn't really learn the most technical stuff, but that was OK because the field I got into (Internet engineering) did not have any formal academic program back then, and maybe until now.

I can't say if DLSU or AdMU is better for you, but what I find important is that you learn the fundamentals of CS and the mathematical/scientific aspects. With that you are prepared to take on any new programming language or technology that comes along.

At this point, five years after finishing school, I feel the need to review and retreat back to what I was taking up back then. It takes effort, which I think you can avoid if you keep on practicing.

[alemrac]

I'm planning to go into web development (both web design and web programming) in the (near?) future, so I think I could survive with Ateneo's less technical CS course (as some of the posts appear to say). But a technical course would be a plus, too...

Blech I hate making decisions like these.

[zimdude]

If current trends are to continue, web programming is "lighter" programming since it is more of scripting, as opposed to say, writing applications or server software.

Whatever school you choose, the language you may grow obsolete - like the Pascal we started out with - but the fundamental theories, which based on mathematics, remain.

[LeeYahGrl]

Originally posted by alemrac
I'm planning to go into web development (both web design and web programming)

If you're looking for these stuffs, and if ever you're going to DLSU, you can trying majoring in IST or Instructional Systems Technology. It's a CS Major. It focuses more on multimedia, and the use of computers in education.

I can't say much about it since its a fairly new major. It was only started a year ago :)

[ginoledesma]

Originally posted by sisig101
From the posts above, I noticed that Ateneo is using Java for a lot of their projects. I'm just wondering what tools you guys use in developing java applications.

Gumagamit ba kayo ng IDE for Java (Kawa, Visual Cafe, JBuilder)? Anong klaseng projects ang pinapagawa sa inyo using Java? Pinapagawa ba kayo ng Servlets, Applets or Beans? Kasama ba sa pagtuturo yung OO methodologies?

I wish. :D

Seriously, only the Sun JDK tools are given to the students. The use of IDEs such as Kawa, Visual Cafe, JBuilder, JDeveloper, Visual Age, Forte, and the like are up to the student. As Java is taught for only two semesters, there isn't enough time to tackle the power of these tools. As such, only the principles of OOP and basic Java are taught. Developing complicated applications beyond the semester are up to the student.

When I started out, all I used was DOS's Edit and the Sun JDK tools. I also made use of pico on Linux as well as the IBM JDK tools, which was much more robust and reliable compared to the Sun JDK for Linux.

Most teachers are now encouraging the use of JCreator, a simple Java IDE for Windows. Others encourage the use of macro-programmable text editors such as UltraEdit32. This is so that students get output on a scrollable window rather than having to output it through a screen program.

The projects start out simple, like basic calculators and trivial programs (such as vending machines, point plotters, and the like). The objective of these programs is to familiarize the user with various parts of Java, such as the AWT classes and the Event handler classes. They then proceed to more complex apps such as RPM calculators (with proper MDAS handling), board games, and the like. These include programming techniques/principles such as the use of stacks/queues/linked lists, recursion, hash tables, and the like. The two semesters try to give the student a rough feel of what Java and all OO P/Ls can do.

Unfortunately, it ends there. The school then expects the student to further develop himself/herself on her own, providing support when requested.

I admit that were it not for my interest and determination, I would never have started (and finished) programs such as Othello, Game of the Generals, Chess, a very simple vector-based drawing program (which I soon realized I could turn into a diagramming app), web browser, web indexer, LAN messaging system, and the like. I really ought to CVS my apps. :rolleyes:

:)

[sisig101]

Originally posted by ginoledesma
Originally posted by sisig101
From the posts above, I noticed that Ateneo is using Java for a lot of their projects. I'm just wondering what tools you guys use in developing java applications.

Gumagamit ba kayo ng IDE for Java (Kawa, Visual Cafe, JBuilder)? Anong klaseng projects ang pinapagawa sa inyo using Java? Pinapagawa ba kayo ng Servlets, Applets or Beans? Kasama ba sa pagtuturo yung OO methodologies?

I wish. :D

Seriously, only the Sun JDK tools are given to the students. The use of IDEs such as Kawa, Visual Cafe, JBuilder, JDeveloper, Visual Age, Forte, and the like are up to the student. As Java is taught for only two semesters, there isn't enough time to tackle the power of these tools. As such, only the principles of OOP and basic Java are taught. Developing complicated applications beyond the semester are up to the student.

When I started out, all I used was DOS's Edit and the Sun JDK tools. I also made use of pico on Linux as well as the IBM JDK tools, which was much more robust and reliable compared to the Sun JDK for Linux.

Most teachers are now encouraging the use of JCreator, a simple Java IDE for Windows. Others encourage the use of macro-programmable text editors such as UltraEdit32. This is so that students get output on a scrollable window rather than having to output it through a screen program.

The projects start out simple, like basic calculators and trivial programs (such as vending machines, point plotters, and the like). The objective of these programs is to familiarize the user with various parts of Java, such as the AWT classes and the Event handler classes. They then proceed to more complex apps such as RPM calculators (with proper MDAS handling), board games, and the like. These include programming techniques/principles such as the use of stacks/queues/linked lists, recursion, hash tables, and the like. The two semesters try to give the student a rough feel of what Java and all OO P/Ls can do.

Unfortunately, it ends there. The school then expects the student to further develop himself/herself on her own, providing support when requested.

I admit that were it not for my interest and determination, I would never have started (and finished) programs such as Othello, Game of the Generals, Chess, a very simple vector-based drawing program (which I soon realized I could turn into a diagramming app), web browser, web indexer, LAN messaging system, and the like. I really ought to CVS my apps. :rolleyes:

:)

Very similar din ng Compro1 and Compro2. TPascal nga lang ang gamit namin bfore so walang focus on OO methodologies and DOS based lang.

I hope schools can have projects that tackle or simulate "real world" development scenarios(eg. Creating client/server or N-tier web apps).

Sa La Salle, I think SYANADE is focused only on the "high level" analysis and design part. I'm not sure if they already address the architectural/development side of it.

[ginoledesma]

Originally posted by sisig101
I hope schools can have projects that tackle or simulate "real world" development scenarios(eg. Creating client/server or N-tier web apps).

Sa La Salle, I think SYANADE is focused only on the "high level" analysis and design part. I'm not sure if they already address the architectural/development side of it.

Much as many would want to, I think that the basics must be taught first prior to jumping onto the difficult stuff. Loops, recursion, stacks, linked lists, doubly-linked lists, trees, Dijkstra's algorithm, and the like may be a bore, and the application of these concepts may not be immediately seen, but they are very important in complex/efficient software development.

That is why I feel that projects given should be, as you say, "real world", whereas the lectures in class are on the conceptual/theoretical, with occassional application examples. And I think that more and more professors are adopting this approach.

This didn't happen when I was a freshman, though. It was just because of my sheer interest to make these "useful apps" which led to my "self-learning." Nowadays, however, its good to see that Ateneo CS21 students are being given "semi-real-world" projects such as "basic paint app" and the like. :)

[angst]

Originally posted by new_blood
I'm a little biased about this, pero this is the truth:

The truth is ... yung mga teachers ng COMPSCI ng ADMU ay nag-aral at na-train sa lang sa DLSU.

The best talaga sa COMPSCI ang DLSU sa buong Pilipinas, OK at magaling din rin ang COMPSCI ng ADMU, pero humahabol pa lang sila in terms of academics and facilities.

So pare, sa DLSU ka na, kahit malayo, OK lang. (I take the MRT, then the LRT to go to DLSU).

PEACE!

I'm an MIS major of Ateneo and my home dept is the DISCS and I can say that your contention is not true. Most of my teachers earned their masters here in Ateneo or abroad. I have this feeling based on my four years of stay in DISCS that they give priority in hiring to Ateneo alumni.

[angst]

Originally posted by sisig101
From the posts above, I noticed that Ateneo is using Java for a lot of their projects. I'm just wondering what tools you guys use in developing java applications.

Gumagamit ba kayo ng IDE for Java (Kawa, Visual Cafe, JBuilder)? Anong klaseng projects ang pinapagawa sa inyo using Java? Pinapagawa ba kayo ng Servlets, Applets or Beans? Kasama ba sa pagtuturo yung OO methodologies?

During my time, we were not allowed/introduced to Java editors. We used text editor and compiled our code in DOS. My teacher discouraged the use of Visual Cafe because the graphics distract your attention daw. She'd rather let us concentrate on the accuracy and efficiency of our codes.

During my time (I don't know if this still holds true because Ateneo's CS subjects' contents are always revised) OO methodologies like classes, objects and the like were taught second sem during CS 21b. CS 21a concentrated on the fundamentals of programming like loops, control mechanisms and stuff like that.

[ginoledesma]

/* Whoopee! Another Atenean shares his/her thoughts. :) */

Angst, DISCS does not encourage the use of Visual/Graphical IDEs for CS21 students. Only text editors are, and JCreator falls more on to the side of text editors than it does IDE. The EDIT program in MSDOS is sufficient, but everyone is entitled to a program that can help the budding developer program apps. After all, having your code nicely colored/formatted is far better than looking at "white-on-blue" text all day long. :D

By any chance, was your teacher back then Ms. Rox Pantoja? She still handles the MIS block for CS21, although new to the fray is Paolo Agloro. Luis Sarmienta, who is still earning his PhD at MIT, is supposedly going to teach – we just don't know when. :)

You're right in saying that CS21a focuses more on the fundamentals and CS21b with OO itself. However, I can't remember if I did follow this "style" because I had to read ahead in advance. Mike Chiong, my CS21a&b teacher, was great in that he, indirectly, propelled me to learn stuff on my own. I didn't learn how to do true OO programing in the classroom (probably 'coz I either skipped class or wasn't paying attention :D), but outside the classroom through the projects I engage in.

What I feel lacking in how the teachers teach Java is that they don't seem to really *grasp* the student's inspiritation and motivation. They're doing a good enough job in teaching as it is, but somehow they can't seem to reach others. It would really be nice to layout the groundwork of what programming is, what can be done, and the like prior to learning the language/discipline itself.

Somewhere out there is a teacher who can perhaps inspire the "average Juan" to do better. Unfortunately, not a lot of 'em exist. :|

[angst]

Originally posted by ginoledesma
/* Whoopee! Another Atenean shares his/her thoughts. :) */

By any chance, was your teacher back then Ms. Rox Pantoja? She still handles the MIS block for CS21, although new to the fray is Paolo Agloro. Luis Sarmienta, who is still earning his PhD at MIT, is supposedly going to teach – we just don't know when. :)

You're right in saying that CS21a focuses more on the fundamentals and CS21b with OO itself. However, I can't remember if I did follow this "style" because I had to read ahead in advance. Mike Chiong, my CS21a&b teacher, was great in that he, indirectly, propelled me to learn stuff on my own. I didn't learn how to do true OO programing in the classroom (probably 'coz I either skipped class or wasn't paying attention :D), but outside the classroom through the projects I engage in.

What I feel lacking in how the teachers teach Java is that they don't seem to really *grasp* the student's inspiritation and motivation. They're doing a good enough job in teaching as it is, but somehow they can't seem to reach others. It would really be nice to layout the groundwork of what programming is, what can be done, and the like prior to learning the language/discipline itself.

Somewhere out there is a teacher who can perhaps inspire the "average Juan" to do better. Unfortunately, not a lot of 'em exist. :|

My teacher for CS21a was Ms. Rox Pantoja. Honestly speaking, she was not that good. However, my CS21b teacher was really brilliant. She is Ms. Ginger Co, the owner of Mindgate Systems. She really taught us OO fundamentals and it was also from her that we learned how to use Java's built-in functions. We learned that when she would let us use our book Java in a Nutshell while having hands-on exams. She helped us how to properly interpret the meaning of the text. Although, her load is sometimes unreasonable, I still feel that I owe my Java knowledge to her.

[nuss]

almerac,

nasagot na ata ni ginoledesma yung tanong mo. Ang alam ko kasi, "bawal" ang CE sa Ateneo na walang kadugtong na Chemistry o Physics. Weird nga kasi kasama nila Chem majors.

[alemrac]

so the verdict is...

[zimdude]

Originally posted by angst
However, my CS21b teacher was really brilliant. She is Ms. Ginger Co, the owner of Mindgate Systems.

alam ko na kanino magpapaturo ng Java!! she was my classmate :D back when we were taking up CS Java was not yet released to the world yet.

the verdict? you need to decide for yourself! I believe you won't regret whether you choose one or another.

[nuss]

Web designing ba trip mo? Mag-La Salle ka na! May specialization sa CCS na ang tawag ay Instructional Systems Technology.

Don't be deceived by the name. You'll get to be a web developer and more... Multimedia, courseware, online courses... ito ang pag-aaralan mo. Cool diba?

Tapos, kung ano ang natutunan mo dito, pwede mo pang i-apply sa web designing. Other than that, we have kickass computers to suit your needs. Flash 5, Authorware 3, Photoshop 5 (o 6 na ba yon?), Dreamweaver... with 250 Megs RAM, and 20 Gigs disk space.

Plus, you'll get to meet the best technology teacher there is in Dr. Lloyd Espiritu. Besides, you'll get to meet the cool students of IST.

Although medyo technical siya, at least hands-on siya.

Nag-marketing ba daw? Siyempre course ko yan e. Kailangan itayo ang bandila ng ComSci... Mabuhay ComSci!!!

[ginoledesma]

Hi, alemrac

I know what I'm about to say isn't really one of your choices, but a friend told me that UP Los Baños has the best Computer Science program – with great emphasis on the Science part. Apparently, the UPLB CS track is far more theoretical in approach, which is the true nature of CS. They have, according to my friend, the best round up of Computer Scientists – not Computer Engineers, not Computer programmers, not Computer Analysts. Though UPLB may not have access to the technical facilities available in La Salle or Ateneo, they have the supposedly "technical" superiority.

As for the verdict? Well, like Zimdude and nuss said, you decide. You're still a couple of months off till you actually enroll, so have a great time deciding and considering your options. Decide what exactly you want to do in the future (a really tough question). Think whether what you want to do can be learned on your own, or could be developed somehow.

A common fallacy is that people equate Computer Science to programming. Programming is only a part of CS. So no matter how many or what P/Ls are being taught, that shouldn't be the deciding factor especially since you can learn practically ANY P/L when you give it enough time and effort. What's more important is the concepts, theoretical background, and the like which forms a solid foundation for programming.

Both DLSU and AdMU, as well as other schools, offer the necessary tools for you to be what you want to be. Whereever you go, however, you'll still have picked a great school. :)

[francisd]

You may want to check the schools curriculum too. DLSU's computer science program with specialization in IT is very popular. It focuses on developing systems for business.

Some of its core subjects(back when I was there) that I found very useful are Business concepts, Systems Analysis and design, Database Normalization, UML etc.

These are useful subjects that can help you become an IT Consultant or Architect in the future.

In my experience, it is very easy for people to jump on the Visual Basic, Java, Perl, ASP, JSP,XML bandwagon. Only a handful though have the methodologies to quickly understand the role of these new technologies.

I think DLSU's CS-IT program prepares the students to become "Blow Joe the IT Architect/Consultant" rather than "Blow Joe the programmer".

[alemrac]

*bump*

college confirmation deadlines are nearing... anyone have any last comments?

[Monica Lewinsky]

Hi M_ L_,

Despite the scholarship, I still hope you will choose Ateneo. They have a great holistic education that will prepare you for life, not just for your first entry-level technical job. The students there are very bright and that will motivate you to work harder and become a better person. I also notice you're quite a leader and a communicator. I think Ateneo will help you in further developing your leadership skills. Life is not all about computers, remember? In addition, dorm life will be a great experience and education in and of itself. It will teach you how to become more independent and self-sufficient, meet new friends from all over the Philippines and abroad. By the way, did you go to the Ateneo Open House this Saturday?

Coming from an affluent background, do you really need that scholarship? Wouldn't it be better to pass it on to somebody who's less economically well-off? That could be the best gift you could ever give to to somebody. It could be a dream come true for somebody. What a Christian act of kindness!!

Anyway, good luck to you no matter what your final decision is. Keep us posted.

Monica

[mousepad_31]

opinion ko lang... :D
I prefered DLSU to ADMU because 1st, mas malapit.
2nd, mas top ang quality ng DLSU CompSci.
3rd, I wanted my specialzation to be IT... and since DLSU is also a good business school, i figured IT in DLSU would also be good (duh, after all, it is business connected).
4th, I wanted to program din... and i saw the thesis of the upper batches before... and to put it simply: NAKAKA-BILIB!!

parang ang sarap ng feeling na in the future, magagawa ko yan. :D

but anyway, that's my side of the story. choose what you want to choose. good luck na rin.:D

i often wonder about what condition my life would be if i went to ateneo.

[alemrac]

Originally posted by Monica Lewinsky
Coming from an affluent background, do you really need that scholarship? Wouldn't it be better to pass it on to somebody who's less economically well-off? That could be the best gift you could ever give to to somebody. It could be a dream come true for somebody. What a Christian act of kindness!!

Uhh, who are you? I don't know if I really know you, or if you just clicked on my profile, went to my website and looked around.

About the scholarship, STUFAP already has scholarships for those in financial need. The Star Scholarship recognizes students who performed well in the exam. If less financially well-off students didn't qualify for the Star Scholarship, that's their tough luck. If I declined the scholarship, it would go to other students who also performed well in the exam and not to someone in financial need.

And no matter which way you put it, it still costs a lot to send a kid to college.

[ziggyboy]

Originally posted by Monica Lewinsky
Coming from an affluent background, do you really need that scholarship? Wouldn't it be better to pass it on to somebody who's less economically well-off? That could be the best gift you could ever give to to somebody. It could be a dream come true for somebody. What a Christian act of kindness!!

Well honestly (to prevent further conflict), with the nature of DLSU's Star Scholarship, what you propose is not possible. The Star Scholarship is given to those who have topped the DLSU entrance exam REGARDLESS OF ONE'S FINANCIAL STATUS. So if she let's go of the scholarship, she will not have any say to whom it would go but DLSU will just give it to the next person on the list who topped the exams. Peace! :)

For the financially troubled students, there is already the STUFAP to help them.

Originally posted by Monica Lewinsky
Despite the scholarship, I still hope you will choose Ateneo. They have a great holistic education that will prepare you for life, not just for your first entry-level technical job. The students there are very bright and that will motivate you to work harder and become a better person. I also notice you're quite a leader and a communicator. I think Ateneo will help you in further developing your leadership skills. Life is not all about computers, remember? In addition, dorm life will be a great experience and education in and of itself. It will teach you how to become more independent and self-sufficient, meet new friends from all over the Philippines and abroad. By the way, did you go to the Ateneo Open House this Saturday?

With regards to the curriculum of Ateneo's CS. I just saw it recently and compared it to DLSU's curriculum. It was kinda lacking computer subjects BIG TIME. For the Ateneo CS students, check out the DLSU website for some of the subjects of DLSU's CS, you just might get surprised.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Since you got the scholarship in DLSU and not in Ateneo, you should go to DLSU. However, if you got both, then Ateneo is the obvious choice. That's where the bright blue eagles fly. Not that La Salle is a bad school, it's also good.

Good luck, alemrac.

[yinyang]

Originally posted by alemrac
umm... I'm HS senior... and I passed compsci in DLSU and ADMU (YAAAAAAAAAY!!!)

Anyway... I still dunno where I'm going for college... so... umm... could you please help me out? I'm aware that each school's compsci program has its own strengths and weaknesses... please share naman, o? It'll help me decide where to go for college... thanks... :)

Alemrac:

Personally I can tell you to go to La Salle right off the bat because I think it is better than Ateneo in Computer Studies among others.

However don't just take MY word for it, since the CHED, Microsoft and Asiaweek are all UNANIMOUS in saying that La Salle is BETTER than Ateneo in Computer Studies.

[yinyang]

Originally posted by alemrac
umm... I'm HS senior... and I passed compsci in DLSU and ADMU (YAAAAAAAAAY!!!)

Anyway... I still dunno where I'm going for college... so... umm... could you please help me out? I'm aware that each school's compsci program has its own strengths and weaknesses... please share naman, o? It'll help me decide where to go for college... thanks... :)

Alemrac:

Personally I can tell you to go to La Salle right off the bat because I think it is better than Ateneo in Computer Studies among others.

However don't just take MY word for it, since various unbiased & respected entities like the CHED, Microsoft and Asiaweek are all UNANIMOUS in saying that La Salle is BETTER than Ateneo in Computer Studies.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Originally posted by yinyang
Originally posted by alemrac
umm... I'm HS senior... and I passed compsci in DLSU and ADMU (YAAAAAAAAAY!!!)

Anyway... I still dunno where I'm going for college... so... umm... could you please help me out? I'm aware that each school's compsci program has its own strengths and weaknesses... please share naman, o? It'll help me decide where to go for college... thanks... :)

Alemrac:

Personally I can tell you to go to La Salle right off the bat because I think it is better than Ateneo in Computer Studies among others.

However don't just take MY word for it, since the CHED, Microsoft and Asiaweek are all UNANIMOUS in saying that La Salle is BETTER than Ateneo in Computer Studies.


She already decided to go to DLSU because she got the scholarship. No need to convince her as to which school is better since the decision has been made. Even if I still think the Ateneo is better, she can no longer change her mind.

Like they say in "Who Wants To Become a Millionaire"....The decision is final.

It's time for the moderator to close this thread. RIP

[shibby_gurl]

the same thing happened to me when i passed both exams in admu and dlsu so bale i experienced the same situation with u cuz mis din kuha ko dun sa ateneo...nway i chose dlsu cuz my ate was already in dlsu and mas **** ko may ksama ako dun so i won't look stupid on the first day of school PLUS dami malls lapit sa dlsu compared sa ateneo (as far as i know...m not dat sure) FURTHERMORE, correct me if i'm wrong, wala ata thesis sa admu...sa la salle meron...kaya la salle ka nlng

[Moon Goddess]

I have to commend nice Pexers in this thread. You are so cool and nice kahit (sort of) nagpapatalbugan kayo. Sana, maraming tulad niyo sa Pex. So educated and respectful of each other. Hey, this is a good venue for you people to really learn from each other. Basta ba walang siraan diba.

Hmmm... Let's see.

Please don't have this impression that you will not get a holistic education in DLSU. True, Ateneo has been heralded for a very long time as THE university which focuses on the holistic growth of the students.

But it does not mean that if a university is not known for providing holistic education eh it really doesn't. You see, the vision of De La Salle is to produce well-rounded Christian Achievers for God and Country. We need not be high-flying Blue Eagles (despite the majesty the name "Eagle" brings) to be holistic and successful. I'm personally contented to be a Green Archer who aims to the sky but whose feet are always on the ground. DON"T THINK ANYTHING NASTY ABOUT THIS STATEMENT, I DO NOT INTEND TO INSULT NOR DEMEAN ANYBODY HERE. This is a matter of using colorful words ok.

Don't be afraid of the trimestral system. IT IS NOT A HINDERANCE to be a very well-rounded person. It really is up to you. Opportunites are offered in both schools but it is up to you to maximize those opportunities. Sabi nga diba, sieze the moment(and the opportunities).

Eto, to be general, it really is up to you. You should see the costs (this doesn't deal with money only ok) and the benefits of studying in whichever school you choose. I am quite certain that there are biases in your mind with regards to these two schools but please do not succumb to such logical vulnerabilities. Don't just look at the name of the school and the image it is portraying or has been portraying.

Please, huwag na huwag padadala sa mga sabi-sabi, sa mga biases and prejudice, false accusations, hasty generalizations, ugly publicities, etc. Our University has been the victim of these for a very very long time. Its about time to let others truly see the truth.

Listen to your self.
Trust your heart, guided by your mind.

[ziggyboy]

Monica Lewinsky: I have a question for you. If you got into both DLSU and ADMU but your preferred course only in DLSU tapos the ADMU course you got is something you don't like. Where would you go? If you answer is ADMU, then I guess you're one of those people who have not actually seen college life. When you start, you'll find out it's not all about the school. In relation to Moon Goddess's post, it really depends on how you make of your time, and how good the academics are in your school. Like you can't deny that the curriculum of DLSU's Computer Science is way better than ADMU's (minus the "holistic" education as mentioned). My friend's classmate does the projects of her kabarkada in ADMU (who's also in the same year level)...JAVA PA! That's kinda depressing since ADMU starts off with Java from day 1, and DLSU starts Java on the 3rd term of their first year.

Now you may ask, what about Sacha Chua of ADMU who won in the contest? I doubt if everything she did was actually covered in ADMU's curriculum. What I mean is that, her proficiency in programming was a result of personal effort and not the school. She could have done just as well or even better if she went to DLSU. And as zimdude posted that he didn't think that deep on CS as Sacha is doing only shows that it really depends on the person and not the school, considering zimdude is an alumnus of ADMU CS.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Actually, I will be taking up BS Physics with Computer Engineering in the Ateneo and I am quite happy with my decision. I don't have to decide between DLSU or Ateneo since I prefer the Ateneo. It might be surprising since I am from La Salle, but it's my life and my decision. More importantly, I'm happy.

Peace.

[ziggyboy]

Monica Lewinsky: You didn't answer my question. Anyway, if you ask me, I would only choose DLSU for their computer, science (especially BS Math with Computer Science or Human Biology, which have excellent curricula), and engineering courses only...and everything else including Bachelor of Arts and business courses in ADMU. Do you get my drift? I mean, to choose the Ateneo simply because it's Ateneo is simply stupid. College is not about the name, but more on the academics.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I am not only looking at the curricula but also the environment. I consider the academic environment in the Ateneo more intense and competitive than DLSU's. I am particularly impressed by the quality of the students. I think I will be driven to study harder and learn more if I am surrounded by such bright and hardworking students. As a matter of fact, our 2001 HS valedictorian at DLSZ will also be taking up Physics with Computer Engineering in the Ateneo. I have nothing against La Salle. It's more of a personal preference for the Ateneo that I have.

Peace.

[jontyboy]

La Salle is La Salle & Ateneo is Ateneo with their own specialties and strong points.

That is why La Salle and Ateneo are the No. 1 & No. 2 respectively - Private Universities in the Philippines.

[alemrac]

Originally posted by Monica Lewinsky
As a matter of fact, our 2001 HS valedictorian at DLSZ will also be taking up Physics with Computer Engineering in the Ateneo.

I wonder who you are. I don't know anyone else from DLSZ taking up Physics w/ Computer Engineering at ADMU. And neither does Patrick.

[Monica Lewinsky]

All I can say is, Patrick will be surprised when he finds out on the first day of school. I hope pleasantly surprised.

Good luck, alemrac. Hope you enjoy CS.

[kikoy]

If you have the guts...LASALLE!

that's the truth honey!