How the Mainland Chinese and Indians Have Hijacked the US Graduate

[simmer]

How the Mainland chinese and indians have hijacked the US graduate
school system?

by simmer

How is it that there is a massive increase in Mainland chinese and
Indian
grad students here in the US?

Because of the policy of fiscal conservatism, there has been a trend
in most US universities of getting away from central funding and
gearing towards self-sufficiency.

Things have changed. Departmental fundings are disappearing and more
and more, fundings for just about everything (stipend of students,
reimbursement, honorarium) are being funded now by internally
generated funds (GRANTS). What does this mean? Well, it means the
professors with the most grant money harness the most power. Within
his
hands is to hire and choose who he wants as a grad student, pay for
honorarium during conferences and trips, hire who and how many
technicians he wants)

Since a lot of the faculty are mainland chinese and indians. They have
devise a way to go through this loophole and propagate their own
kind. That's right. Since they hold the grant funds, they can dictate
who they can hire. Admission committee in some departments are even
just a formality because whoever the research faculty wants that's
what he gets. That's right, it is rigged. If one applied and have
credentials, if the faculty
(who holds the money sees you're not his compatriot anyway), he can
simply say I donot want to take him or I am not taking any grad
students right
now or he is not qualified.

There you go. One reason why mainland chinese and
indians are swarming the US graduate school system.

I am not taking away anything from them. I mean most of them are
really smart especially the indians. But, if you bar other people
who can also be qualified, that is CHEATING. The american system of
professionalism has been destroyed. This is one reason why we
filipinos cannot compete.

[kungpow]

Eh? I don't think is true since professors in the u.s. are always pressured to publish or perish. They would need the most qualified graduate students in their research group and thus, will be forced to select the best applicants regardless of nationality and race. If you will even look at the graduate students of each department in each school in the u.s., I will bet everything I have that what you will see is a rich and diverse background of nationalities and interests. That a lot of Chinese and Indians are in u.s. graduate schools is actually a testament to the quality of education and amount of manpower they have, since after all, they are the two most populous nations in the world.

[Kolmogorov]

gaano ba kadaming Pinoy ang nag-aaapply to US grad schools? I don't think the number would comprise a quarter of the number of applicants from India and China. Grad school is simply not that hot of a prospect in the PI, kahit sa abroad pa yan (unless you're a university professor)

[Sindingapoy]

blah blah blah blah......

Why don't you cite some facts rather than rant pointlessly? "a lot" is not a fact. Name me who are the ones who got "barred" by the Indians and Chinese?

Your ranting sound similar to the Nazis ranting about Jews trying to take over the world. How many Chinese mainlander professor is in your school? How many Indians? Case closed.

*yawn*

[simmer]

blah blah blah blah......

Why don't you cite some facts rather than rant pointlessly? "a lot" is not a fact. Name me who are the ones who got "barred" by the Indians and Chinese?

Your ranting sound similar to the Nazis ranting about Jews trying to take over the world. How many Chinese mainlander professor is in your school? How many Indians? Case closed.

*yawn*

So how do these indians, mainland chinese and hispanics cheat?

It's simple. They have gone around a loophole in the graduate student
application process.

You see. right now in the US. There are fewer and fewer departmental
funds (well, they could still cheat even with departamental funds
anyhow). The way the research education is being moved and set-up now
is that stipends for graduate students of different research
professors
are being funneled out from the research grants that each research
faculty gets from NIH or USDA or whatever research granting
institutions.

So, since the faculty holds the money. They can control which graduate
students can come in.

Case in point, let me tell you about one department that I am very
familiar with.

In this department, there are 3 indian professors, 2 mainland
chnese professors, one argentinian professor and one greek professor.

Now, let's tally the graduate students:

Indian professor # 1, the department head:
Research Assistant Professor: Indian
Post-Doc: 1 Indian, 1 Mainland chinese, 1 Korean
Grad Students: 4 Indians, 1 Mainland chinese
This Indian department head goes to his home country every year to
specifically replace his graduating grad student with another indian.
*The mainland chinese grad student here was just dependent initially
by
her husband F1 visa but absolutely has no background in the field of the department.

Indian professor # 2
Grad Students: 2 Indians

Indian professor # 3
Post-Doc: 1 Mainland chinese
Grad Students: 1 Caucasian-american, 1 Indian

Chinese professor # 1
Post-Doc: 1 Mainland Chinese
Grad Students: 3 Mainland Chinese, 1 African-american

Chinese professor # 2
Post-Doc: 1 Indian, 1 Mainland Chinese
Grad Students: 1 Mainland Chinese, 1 Indian
*The Indian grad student here is the wife of a former indian post-doc
of the Indian prof # 1.
*The Mainland chinese grad student here has no background with
virology
but still gets the job.

Argentinian professor
Research Assistant Professor: Spanish who has an Argentinian husband who happens to be a friend of the professor.
Post-Doc: 1 Mainland chinese actually 2 before.
Grad Student: 1 Caucasian-american, 1 African-american, 1 Columbian
Technician: His wife, the husband of the Columbian
Gee, family incorporated.
*The columbian grad student has a very low GRE score but this
argentinian prof pushed and lobbied for her anyway bec she's hispanic.
*The technician position was already taken up but the professor
lobbied
still for the husband of his columbian grad student.
*He opened another technician position just for his wife. (Gee, talk
about nepotism)

Greek Professor
Grad student: Indian

Now, see what's the grand tally. Just imagine. This is only one
department from one university campus in the US. And, this is
happening
all over the US.

How do they get away with it? They cover for each other's ***.
Blackmailing each other if someone rats out. They simply say anyone
applying who is not their compatriot is not adept. They twist each
other's arm, lobby for people and trade.

Now, you can imagine why we cannot compete.

[simmer]

Eh? I don't think is true since professors in the u.s. are always pressured to publish or perish. They would need the most qualified graduate students in their research group and thus, will be forced to select the best applicants regardless of nationality and race. If you will even look at the graduate students of each department in each school in the u.s., I will bet everything I have that what you will see is a rich and diverse background of nationalities and interests. That a lot of Chinese and Indians are in u.s. graduate schools is actually a testament to the quality of education and amount of manpower they have, since after all, they are the two most populous nations in the world.


As I have said before I am not taking anyway out from these chinese and indians. Even if they are smart, it is irrelevant because there are also a lot of smart students from other countries. When you show favoritism with your own kind, then, you are barring all other deserving competition, that is cheating.

[kalteck]

Have you tried reporting this to school officials concerned.Put it in a BLOG.Simmer. I think this is a federal offense if found true.

[starczamora]

Filipinos do not even bother to take up grad school, kahit nasa US na sila. (Sayang daw ang kikatain)

[simmer]

Have you tried reporting this to school officials concerned.Put it in a BLOG.Simmer. I think this is a federal offense if found true.

I don't have the guts to complain to the officials

[orion_1648]

"Hindi ganyan sa i-States."

[kaningbrown]

A white grad student and a chinese grad student. So let's say they're just as capable as each other. The professor is chinese. Wouldn't it be common sense to get somebody you can communicate with easier? Results count most, specially for research universities.

[xiao_g]

don't you think 'US graduate school system' seems too broad for this discussion? i don't have the stats, but most indians and chinese grad students while i was in grad school were in engineering, math, and the natural sciences. not much in the social sciences and the arts, though. the same observation goes with the faculty: not a lot of indians and chinese teach in the social sciences and the arts. i don't think the bulk of these nationalities being in these majors is a matter of favoritism (i am not discounting this as a fact, though) but i think it's more brought about by the culture they grew up in. majoring in engineering, medicine, math, or the natural sciences are highly regarded in their respective countries (heck, even here in the philippines) and to them being in grad school in the US is just one way of improving their skills and separating themselves from the crowd (they are so competitive, especially the indians). :) so i don't think it should be too much of a shock why there are a lot of indians and chinese grad students in these majors. also, if you're gonna be studying in a foreign country, wouldn't it be easier to express yourself in numbers and formulas rather than 5,000-word essays? :lol: i'm not saying that oral and written communications are not important; they most definitely are! but math and the natsci's have a certain rigidity to them, and in these areas, whatever is, is!

also, consider the population of india and china. again, shouldn't be a shocker why a huge chunk of international grad students are from these countries.

as for the bulk of those majoring in the social sciences and arts, lemme tell you, those grad students surely know how to party hard. :D but seriously, can we also "accuse" the faculty in the socsci's of favoritism since most of the grad students in those areas are caucasians?

if there was a certain group that should be complaining about the influx of indians and chinese grad students, that should be americans wanting to pursue any engineering, math, physics, or chemistry degrees. i had an indian adviser while doing my masters, and our group can be broken down into this: phds: one lebanese, one indian, one ghanaian (ghanian?), and one filipino. masters: 3 indians, one filipino, one ecuadorian, and one indian-american. this may look like he favors indians, but he criticizes his fellow indians more and is more condescending to them than the rest of us. also, he has never taken in any white grad student in his entire professorial career.

[simmer]

A white grad student and a chinese grad student. So let's say they're just as capable as each other. The professor is chinese. Wouldn't it be common sense to get somebody you can communicate with easier? Results count most, specially for research universities.

it is common sense but is it ethical

[simmer]

don't you think 'US graduate school system' seems too broad for this discussion? i don't have the stats, but most indians and chinese grad students while i was in grad school were in engineering, math, and the natural sciences. not much in the social sciences and the arts, though. the same observation goes with the faculty: not a lot of indians and chinese teach in the social sciences and the arts. i don't think the bulk of these nationalities being in these majors is a matter of favoritism (i am not discounting this as a fact, though) but i think it's more brought about by the culture they grew up in. majoring in engineering, medicine, math, or the natural sciences are highly regarded in their respective countries (heck, even here in the philippines) and to them being in grad school in the US is just one way of improving their skills and separating themselves from the crowd (they are so competitive, especially the indians). :) so i don't think it should be too much of a shock why there are a lot of indians and chinese grad students in these majors. also, if you're gonna be studying in a foreign country, wouldn't it be easier to express yourself in numbers and formulas rather than 5,000-word essays? :lol: i'm not saying that oral and written communications are not important; they most definitely are! but math and the natsci's have a certain rigidity to them, and in these areas, whatever is, is!

also, consider the population of india and china. again, shouldn't be a shocker why a huge chunk of international grad students are from these countries.

as for the bulk of those majoring in the social sciences and arts, lemme tell you, those grad students surely know how to party hard. :D but seriously, can we also "accuse" the faculty in the socsci's of favoritism since most of the grad students in those areas are caucasians?

if there was a certain group that should be complaining about the influx of indians and chinese grad students, that should be americans wanting to pursue any engineering, math, physics, or chemistry degrees. i had an indian adviser while doing my masters, and our group can be broken down into this: phds: one lebanese, one indian, one ghanaian (ghanian?), and one filipino. masters: 3 indians, one filipino, one ecuadorian, and one indian-american. this may look like he favors indians, but he criticizes his fellow indians more and is more condescending to them than the rest of us. also, he has never taken in any white grad student in his entire professorial career.

what i am telling you is that they are bypassing or going around the loophole and am not following the selection process anymore.....as I have indicated, one indian professor goes to india every year just to recruit all indian grad students in his lab. same with the mainland chinese prof...that is cheating.....i am not surprise but outrage kasi apektado rin tayo nyan

[xiao_g]

yeah, it happens, but why are you singling out chinese and indians? and how affected are we, as filipinos, really? since you're providing examples, here's mine:

- i was supposed to start a phd program this spring because my masters adviser asked me before i came back here if i wanted to work with him on some of his projects. i opted out at the last minute because i don't think i'm ready yet for research spanning 3-4 years. granted, i've worked with him before and he's familiar with my work, and probably nobody's applying :lol:, but did he go to india to seek out students? was a filipino missing out on the opportunity?
- our school has a pretty good agricultural economics program, and one faculty member (he's caucasian) from that department makes it a point that when there are filipinos applying to their program, their applications are made top priority. yeah, you can call that favoritism, but this professor has had a lot of experience working with filipinos, not to mention he's been in our country many times (whether for work or pleasure), that he's already confident about the quality of work filipinos are able to produce. :)

i guess what i'm trying to say here is, yes, favoritism may exist (scratch that; it DOES exist), but it is NOT at all exclusive to the indian and chinese faculty. also, if a professor favors a certain nationality to work with him (not necessarily his own, as i've said in my example on filipinos being preferred by a caucasian professor), then maybe, they ARE the best ones out there.

[rabbaddal]

Actually, up to two-thirds of science and engineering grad students in US universities are foreign-born, with the bulk coming from China and India. But I credit this more to their critical mass, sense of opportunism and resourcefulness than anything malicious. China produces 500,000 engineering undergrads a year, while India, another 300,000. Add to that their entrepreneurial bent and it’s not hard to understand why they would bag a large share of graduate / research assistant positions.

[simmer]

yeah, it happens, but why are you singling out chinese and indians? and how affected are we, as filipinos, really? since you're providing examples, here's mine:

- i was supposed to start a phd program this spring because my masters adviser asked me before i came back here if i wanted to work with him on some of his projects. i opted out at the last minute because i don't think i'm ready yet for research spanning 3-4 years. granted, i've worked with him before and he's familiar with my work, and probably nobody's applying :lol:, but did he go to india to seek out students? was a filipino missing out on the opportunity?
- our school has a pretty good agricultural economics program, and one faculty member (he's caucasian) from that department makes it a point that when there are filipinos applying to their program, their applications are made top priority. yeah, you can call that favoritism, but this professor has had a lot of experience working with filipinos, not to mention he's been in our country many times (whether for work or pleasure), that he's already confident about the quality of work filipinos are able to produce. :)

i guess what i'm trying to say here is, yes, favoritism may exist (scratch that; it DOES exist), but it is NOT at all exclusive to the indian and chinese faculty. also, if a professor favors a certain nationality to work with him (not necessarily his own, as i've said in my example on filipinos being preferred by a caucasian professor), then maybe, they ARE the best ones out there.

this is like one example of trying to justify something that is outrightly wrong.....favoritism is wrong.....it is unprofessional.....

[xiao_g]

this is like one example of trying to justify something that is outrightly wrong.....favoritism is wrong.....it is unprofessional.....

call it justifying something wrong (i call it more of acknowledging the fact ;)), but i was simply providing examples to contradict your statements which were CLEARLY targeting the chinese and indians in the academe. and you say us filipinos are missing out... i say, not at all!

i applaud you for being idealistic, but if your main beef is the existence of favoritism in the selection process, then analyze the issue first before making bold statements like the ones you've provided upon opening this thread. if you think it exists in your department, i'm sure there are committees that you may contact to take care of such matters.

[simmer]

call it justifying something wrong (i call it more of acknowledging the fact ;)), but i was simply providing examples to contradict your statements which were CLEARLY targeting the chinese and indians in the academe. and you say us filipinos are missing out... i say, not at all!

i applaud you for being idealistic, but if your main beef is the existence of favoritism in the selection process, then analyze the issue first before making bold statements like the ones you've provided upon opening this thread. if you think it exists in your department, i'm sure there are committees that you may contact to take care of such matters.

this kind of attitude of surrendering to what is the fact of life ( where a fact might or might not connote whether is it is right or wrong) is the reason why our country is in deep corruption.

I personally think we should maintain what is right, not what is the fact of life cause it is just surrendering to what is wrong (be it the fact) and we should never surrender.

[xiao_g]

this kind of attitude of surrendering to what is the fact of life ( where a fact might or might not connote whether is it is right or wrong) is the reason why our country is in deep corruption.

I personally think we should maintain what is right, not what is the fact of life cause it is just surrendering to what is wrong (be it the fact) and we should never surrender.

haha, simmer, topic please... but seriously, where in my posts did i say favoritism is alright? acknowledging the fact means it exists. i even suggested that you bring it to higher authority if you think there's favoritism in your department. have you even done that? and you say that my kind of "attitude" (even if you've clearly misinterpreted it) is the reason why the country's in a major rut. :rolleyes: stop complaining here at PEx. do something!

ON TOPIC naman: prove first that MAJORITY (o, yan ha, majority lang, not all para hindi ka mahirapan masyado) of the CHINESE and INDIAN people in the US graduate school system came by way of favoritism... then we'll talk. ;)

[simmer]

haha, simmer, topic please... but seriously, where in my posts did i say favoritism is alright? acknowledging the fact means it exists. i even suggested that you bring it to higher authority if you think there's favoritism in your department. have you even done that? and you say that my kind of "attitude" (even if you've clearly misinterpreted it) is the reason why the country's in a major rut. :rolleyes: stop complaining here at PEx. do something!

ON TOPIC naman: prove first that MAJORITY (o, yan ha, majority lang, not all para hindi ka mahirapan masyado) of the CHINESE and INDIAN people in the US graduate school system came by way of favoritism... then we'll talk. ;)

i am too timid and meek to complain to authorities.