DLSU-Manila vs AdMU for graduate level Mathematics

[lebron_paul]

My friend from Singapore would like to take up graduate level mathematics (Masters in Math or MS Mathematics) in the Philippines and he's eyeing on the DLSU or the AdMU program but can't really decide between the two. If you were to advise him, which school would you recommend? Which school do you think has the better master’s level program for math? Need objective advice here please. Thanks.

[bluemarc]

I'd be bias here as I'm from ADMU. I'd recommend Ateneo as they have the best Math teachers, often they make the most difficult exams in ACET especially the computation part of it. It is known that students from Ateneo is good if not the best in Math.
Ask the Ateneo Mathematics Society, they'll assist you through.

[lebron_paul]

I'd be bias here as I'm from ADMU. I'd recommend Ateneo as they have the best Math teachers, often they make the most difficult exams in ACET especially the computation part of it. It is known that students from Ateneo is good if not the best in Math.
Ask the Ateneo Mathematics Society, they'll assist you through.

pano mo nasabing best teachers sila? have you got an actual experience with them that you might want to share with us?

[lebron_paul]

I'd be bias here as I'm from ADMU...

It is known that students from Ateneo is good if not the best in Math.

Bluemarc, take note that I was asking for the graduate level math program.

As to my other comment:
Your comment that I quoted above actually contradicts with what I've known. I've got many friends who have graduated AB/BS from AdMU all of them with poor to average mathematical skills. The only Ateneo students I know/have heard of that have high mathematical skills aside from those math major themselves are those from Management Engineering and Economics-Honours. The rest have so-so mathematical skills, as I have observed.

UPD has the most notorious math program by anyone’s standard and my foreign friend obviously knew that that’s why he doesn’t want to go there. He obviously wants to enjoy his stay in the Philippines whist going through his postgrad program. He’s convinced he wouldn’t experience that if he’ll go to UPD.

[bluemarc]

My mistake sorry. You can still ask the AMS, they'll be happy to assist you through.

[mikio-kun]

AdMU Mathematics Masteral (http://www.math.admu.edu.ph/gradprogram.html#msmath)

DLSU Mathematics Masteral (http://www.dlsu.edu.ph/academics/continuing/cos/programs.asp)

Helping hand:
My Math friend (math friend... ahahahah) says that the basic difference between the two universities' Math programs is that AdMU is very academic in their Math style, concentrating more on the intricacies at the base of Mathematics. In summary, Math as Science. In DLSU, math is looked at more in it's applied areas, or more into the higher applied aspects. In summary, Math as Application. I hope this is of some help...:)

P.S. on the AdMU people as not very Math savvy... I came from both Universities in the Undergrad level (figure that one out) and I have to say that the basic Math in DLSU is a notch below that of AdMU. I took DLSU's ALGE101 and ALGE102, which were the only two required math subjects, (ALGE102 only required in my course and in CBE) in most cases in *** and CED only ALGE 101 is required. In AdMU, we had to take Ma11, which was equivalent to ALGE101 and ALGE 102, plus Ma12, which is part of a major subject for Math majors in DLSU. (Take note, a part.) All Ateneans are required to take at least Ma11 and Ma12. So imagine Literature or Humanities majors taking Linear theory... :)

[_ozzakii]

For undergrad, they probably have the same quality standard. Both are COE too.


For grad school, maybe the La Salle's master's programs have more rigour becuase DLSU's grad programs are generally better than AdMU's. But both are fine schools and have great reputation in the Philippines. DLSU has better rep in the ASEAN though due in part to its membership with the ASEAN University Network.

[lover4love]

Why dito pa siya mag graduate studies? Does he have high regard for Philippine education specially in math? Will he gain much from a graduate course here?

[physicist]

Bluemarc, take note that I was asking for the graduate level math program.

As to my other comment:
Your comment that I quoted above actually contradicts with what I've known. I've got many friends who have graduated AB/BS from AdMU all of them with poor to average mathematical skills. The only Ateneo students I know/have heard of that have high mathematical skills aside from those math major themselves are those from Management Engineering and Economics-Honours. The rest have so-so mathematical skills, as I have observed.

UPD has the most notorious math program by anyone’s standard and my foreign friend obviously knew that that’s why he doesn’t want to go there. He obviously wants to enjoy his stay in the Philippines whist going through his postgrad program. He’s convinced he wouldn’t experience that if he’ll go to UPD.

I doubt that you know much about the math that's taught in Ateneo.
So you think Physics types have so-so math skills? Hmmm...

Fact is, most Math Olympiad HS types (finalists and even those who go on to the International Math Olympiad) choose to go to either Ateneo or UP. I know because I'm one of them, and I picked Ateneo over UP (despite being an Oblation scholar) because I felt that I was more comfortable with Ateneo's math culture.

The Math Olympiad is practically run by Ateneo faculty, just as the Physics Olympiad is pretty much run by UP faculty. When I was an undergrad there, many of those I went up against in the Olympiad ended up being classmates of mine.

Now about the grad program:

Since you ask about this, here's another fact: Many of La Salle's top-notch math faculty got their PHDs from Ateneo (or was supervised by an Ateneo professor). You can check this yourself! Now La Salle is still a very good school though, but to say (as some here seem to) that it's way ahead in its grad program is far from the truth. They're both good.

And besides, every serious student knows that when it comes to graduate school, what matters most is your adviser, your research, and how committed you are about learning something new about the world by yourself. Hindi na sya undergrad, where classroom interaction seems the most important. "Curriculum", class work, and other things like that are significantly less important. Let your "friend" know that.

I have to admit though that I'm terribly confused as to why "your friend" (if he/she does in fact exist) wants to study in the Philippines. NUS and NTU have excellent math programs. In fact, several Ateneans I know actually went to Singapore for their PhDs.

[lebron_paul]

Why dito pa siya mag graduate studies? Does he have high regard for Philippine education specially in math?
I guess some Philippine schools have decent reputation in other countries. UP, DLSU and Ateneo are fairly known in the ASEAN and they're well-regarded where they matter.


I doubt that you know much about the math that's taught in Ateneo.
So you think Physics types have so-so math skills? Hmmm...
You probably did not read my post too well, physicist. I said, the Ateneans I met were from AB and BS. So, there's obviously a wide mixture program orientations of their origin. If I may simplify my words, I meant the general ateneans have so-so mathematical skills compared to the general UPD students that I know.

Fact is, most Math Olympiad HS types (finalists and even those who go on to the International Math Olympiad) choose to go to either Ateneo or UP. I know because I'm one of them, and I picked Ateneo over UP (despite being an Oblation scholar) because I felt that I was more comfortable with Ateneo's math culture.
The majority of the Math Olympiad finanlists have gone to UP. I'm quite sure about this one. The remaining few have gone to Ateneo and DLSU, but I'm not sure which between them have absorbed more math olympiad finalists than the other.

Okay, 8 cousins of mine are ateneans (all UPCAT rejects, if you what to know why they ended up there and not in UP). Do you think they're not good source of information for Ateneo's undergrad quality?

Now, enough of this undergrad topic. This thead is supposed to be for graduate level mathmatics.


Since you ask about this, here's another fact: Many of La Salle's top-notch math faculty got their PHDs from Ateneo (or was supervised by an Ateneo professor).

Good information. Is there any chance that you will provide your source for saying that?










********************

archer nemesis, huwag mo na akong isali sa mga kalokohan mo.
mag motel nalang kayo ni galvan at dun nyo irelease ang tension nyo kay ozzakii. :lol: :lol:

[physicist]

Off-topic, so I apologize in advance. Something instructive needs to be said here though.

You probably did not read my post too well, physicist. I said, the Ateneans I met were from AB and BS. So, there's obviously a wide mixture program orientations of their origin. If I may simplify my words, I meant the general ateneans have so-so mathematical skills compared to the general UPD students that I know.

Point taken. It's hard to read anything else from the way you phrase it though. You say "Ateneans from AB and BS", but then all programs in Ateneo are either of these two. Naturally, one would deduce that you were referring to all Ateneans (except for the exclusions you made -- eg. math, ME, Eco-H). What you're now saying doesn't appear to be simplifying your point, but revising it.

I am not going to refute what you say though about "general Ateneans", because that is, by and large, quite true. However, it's also very misleading. The fact is, generally, students from all universities have so-so math skills. That UP may be different is something to be desired, but unfortunately just isn't true.

Most students from UP don't do math very well either. I'm guessing you are from either the college of science or the college of engineering, and perhaps you haven't experienced much outside the borders of your own college, so I don't blame you. However, it may be instructive to go out once in a while and start talking to philosophy majors, those doing tourism or social work or women's studies or music, or even perhaps business majors of Diliman. You may be quite surprised at how intelligent and intellectually interesting these guys are, and yet how clueless they are about whatever maths you're passionate about. At the end of the day, they just don't care about math.

Anyway, talking to them may just reveal my point to you. The "general" UP student is no better than the "general" Atenean when it comes to basic math skills.

I am now a senior PhD student here in the US. And I am fortunate to be in a university now where UP and Ateneo students (there are about 15 of us here -- 60% from UP, the rest Ateneans) end up being part of a very tight-knit grad student community. It just turns out that among the UP students who are here, most are not doing PhDs in mathematically-demanding fields. So they themselves would admit that they're not too good in math. On the other hand, two of us Ateneans here are in math fields. So naturally, we've had to help several of our UP friends with their statistics at times, which is no different from how we would help fellow Ateneans who don't do math too. So again the point is the "general student" has so-so math skills, regardless of where they graduate from.

No school has a monopoly over mathematically-challenged students.

The majority of the Math Olympiad finanlists have gone to UP. I'm quite sure about this one. The remaining few have gone to Ateneo and DLSU, but I'm not sure which between them have absorbed more math olympiad finalists than the other.

Perhaps times have changed. So I won't say much about what I don't know.

But here's what I do know though. Roughly about a decade ago, 5 of the top 10 in the individual competition of the PMO went to Ateneo.

1st: Cornell
2nd: Ateneo
3rd: UP-D
4th:UP-D, then some California university -- I lost touch with her.
5th: UP-D
6th: Ateneo
7th: UP-D
8th: Ateneo
9th: Ateneo -- Me! :)
10th: Ateneo

On other years, I'm pretty sure Ateneo gets at least two or three.

Again, maybe times have changed.

Okay, 8 cousins of mine are ateneans (all UPCAT rejects, if you what to know why they ended up there and not in UP). Do you think they're not good source of information for Ateneo's undergrad quality?

No, they are. But they're also a very limited source of information. To discredit a university based on your experience of 8 cousins suggests two things: (a) You're young, naive, and perhaps need some more time for the world to re-educate you, and (b) you're not a UP student, or at best a very ill-trained one.

I don't mean to be blunt, so let's keep ourselves from being emotional and crass. But I really am surprised at how terribly naive you sound.

For the record, I also know too many UP alumni who were ACET rejects. They don't mind, and they don't care. Admirably, they're confident enough in who they are to be bothered by any of this.

For my amusement, I sent your comment to our pinoy grad student mailing group here in my current university. In the spirit of Christmas though, I will spare you the comments I got from your fellow UP alumni. Be advised though that it ain't looking too good for you.

**************************************

Again, to your friend who intends to study in the Philippines: figure out what research turns him/her on, email the professors from UP, ADMU, and DLSU, who are invested in it, and then determine what's the best fit. That's the only way one gets an enriching graduate experience.

Merry Christmas to you Paul.

Merry Christmas everyone!
Keep warm! And be happy!


****************************************

To all those who might potentially misunderstand my post, let me say that I have nothing against any university here. (Well, I was irked by all the banner talk last year, but that's done now). I certainly have nothing against UP students. Heck, I'm married to one.

But me being new to this forum, I am really disappointed by all the unintelligent posts that appear here. And by here I mean, Academe and lately Campus Chat. Yes, there are lots who can write well. But apart from that, an authentic exchange of ideas hardly ever takes place. And to think that most who are here profess to be "educated". If this is what Philippine education produces, guess it really is time to just jump ship. Though I'm holding my breath til the last possible minute.

[kjsingh]

hi! i am a math major of the ateneo. i am now on my fifth year (master's level) in my program (master of scienece in applied mathematics, major in mathematical finance). the best place where to take up your master's degree actually depends on which math you want to take up. if its math per se, i would go for UP (we're talking of the graduate program here). if it's applied math, i would go for AdMU's mathematical finance program. only a handful of students are accepted into this program. well, it's quite new, but its getting much attention in the ateneo community (after its being a campus paper front page-r). the think about this master's program is that no other university in the philippines offers lectures on financial derivatives (using advanced stochastic calculus) in conjunction with risk analysis and time series forecasting. the first three batches (less than 10 students each) have ended as the top researchers of formidable banks and insurance companies. the program, by the way, is spearheaded by no less than the proponent of the philippine math olympiad (and also a very prominent member of MSP, MTAP, etc.) dr. jose marasigan.

p.s. : indeed, CHED says that the best math professors are in ateneo (in terms of Ph.D.'s, etc.)

p.s.2 : in general, the ateneo community may fare "average" in mathematics, but that may be in itself, i.e., within the community. this is like saying that the if the math dept of the ateneo conducts an assessment exam to the university, the mean score would peg somewhere at 50%. but in relation to other universities, using a standardized exam, i think that the university would fare somewhere above average.

p.s. 3 : in relation to other universities, the ateneo requires higher mathematics to non-math majors. for example, management majors had to take up calculus courses in place of the algebra courses that other schools require to them.

p.s. 4 : in the undergrad program, i believe that the curriculum of the ateneo is more rigorous than that of UP's. however, i think that students of the UP math dept are inherently smarter than ateneo math majors (though the math gems are in ateneo).

p.s. 5: ateneo has the best recruitment program in mathematics. top math students in chinese schools, science HS's, and other private schools end up in ateneo math dept instead of that of other schools'.

p.s. 6 : indeed, the ateneo math dept has got the most number of award-reaping students in the philippines. the ateneo mnath dept is the ONLY math dept in the phils to have placed in the international math olympiad (IMO). it also has consistently grabbed the topmost spot in local math competitions such as the national statistics quiz bee (i guess for 6 years now?), phil. math olympiad, etc.

[kungpow]

hmmm, master's in math finance?

do you know any kathz there? the lovely chinita? from what I know, she's also studying that course there now

hi! i am a math major of the ateneo. i am now on my fifth year (master's level) in my program (master of scienece in applied mathematics, major in mathematical finance). the best place where to take up your master's degree actually depends on which math you want to take up. if its math per se, i would go for UP (we're talking of the graduate program here). if it's applied math, i would go for AdMU's mathematical finance program. only a handful of students are accepted into this program. well, it's quite new, but its getting much attention in the ateneo community (after its being a campus paper front page-r). the think about this master's program is that no other university in the philippines offers lectures on financial derivatives (using advanced stochastic calculus) in conjunction with risk analysis and time series forecasting. the first three batches (less than 10 students each) have ended as the top researchers of formidable banks and insurance companies. the program, by the way, is spearheaded by no less than the proponent of the philippine math olympiad (and also a very prominent member of MSP, MTAP, etc.) dr. jose marasigan.

p.s. : indeed, CHED says that the best math professors are in ateneo (in terms of Ph.D.'s, etc.)

p.s.2 : in general, the ateneo community may fare "average" in mathematics, but that may be in itself, i.e., within the community. this is like saying that the if the math dept of the ateneo conducts an assessment exam to the university, the mean score would peg somewhere at 50%. but in relation to other universities, using a standardized exam, i think that the university would fare somewhere above average.

p.s. 3 : in relation to other universities, the ateneo requires higher mathematics to non-math majors. for example, management majors had to take up calculus courses in place of the algebra courses that other schools require to them.

p.s. 4 : in the undergrad program, i believe that the curriculum of the ateneo is more rigorous than that of UP's. however, i think that students of the UP math dept are inherently smarter than ateneo math majors (though the math gems are in ateneo).

p.s. 5: ateneo has the best recruitment program in mathematics. top math students in chinese schools, science HS's, and other private schools end up in ateneo math dept instead of that of other schools'.

p.s. 6 : indeed, the ateneo math dept has got the most number of award-reaping students in the philippines. the ateneo mnath dept is the ONLY math dept in the phils to have placed in the international math olympiad (IMO). it also has consistently grabbed the topmost spot in local math competitions such as the national statistics quiz bee (i guess for 6 years now?), phil. math olympiad, etc.

[math_techie]

If we are talking of graduate mathematics, then UPD is the best choice. UPD's reputation of "hard mathematics" is only limited in the undergrad level, and I think graduate level mathematics in UPD is not as notorious as in the undergrad level.

Pero if its between Ateneo and DLSU, then go for Ateneo, I think their mathematics program (especially the pure mathematics program) is superior as compared to DLSU's.

[p1215]

On p.s.:
CHED recognizes 5 Centers of Excellence in Mathematics: UP Diliman, UP Los Banos, Ateneo, La Salle, and MSU-IIT. I have not come across an official CHED declaration stating that Ateneo has the best math professors.

On p.s. 4: What's your basis for saying that ateneo's undergrad math curriculum is more rigorous than up's? I don't think up's math curriculum is rigorous but when I compare this

http://www.ateneo.edu/ateneo/www/UserFiles/109
/downloads/bsmath.pdf

with this

https://www.math.upd.edu.ph/images/Programs/checklist.pdf

I don't see any basis for the claim.

On p.s. 6 : I don't understand "the ateneo math dept is the ONLY math dept in the phils to have placed in the international math olympiad (IMO)".
- The IMO is a contest for students just out of high school, it's not a contest between math departments.
- What do you mean by "ONLY math dept in the phils to have placed in the IMO"?
Every IMO participant has a place.
Please refer to:
http://www.imo-official.org/country_individual_r.aspx?code=PHI&column=year&order=desc

This is what i know about IMO awardees from the Philippines. Since the Philippines started participating in the IMO, there have been four medallists and ten honorable mention winners. A silver medalist went to MIT. A quadruple-bronze medalist went to UP Diliman. Another bronze medalist went to UP Diliman. The last bronze medalist went to Ateneo. I lost track of all the honorable mention winners but one went to UP Diliman and served as Mathematics Department Chair and at least four went to Ateneo.

[lebron_paul]

Point taken. It's hard to read anything else from the way you phrase it though. You say "Ateneans from AB and BS", but then all programs in Ateneo are either of these two. Naturally, one would deduce that you were referring to all Ateneans (except for the exclusions you made -- eg. math, ME, Eco-H). What you're now saying doesn't appear to be simplifying your point, but revising it.

Revise? What did I revise? And if I did revise the construction of my statement, how would that destroy the whole point? Simplify or revise or whatever… it doesn’t matter. What matters is that I made the point and you understood it.

Now, let me say this again for the 3rd time: The average mathematical skills of the undergrad Ateneo students that I met/got acquainted/know are so-so to average, except those students from ME and Eco-Honours, and those who are majoring Math, expectedly. Now, allow me to expand that list. I forgot to mention those students who major Com Sci, Management-Honours, Physics and Chem.
But let me remind you that the reason I said that was to respond to bluemarc’s assertion that the Ateneans are known to have the best mathematical skills.




I am not going to refute what you say though about "general Ateneans", because that is, by and large, quite true. However, it's also very misleading. The fact is, generally, students from all universities have so-so math skills. That UP may be different is something to be desired, but unfortunately just isn't true.

Well, that’s your opinion and I will respect that. But let me tell you something. In 2002, a group of graduate Psychology students from UPD have conducted a research about the average UP students’ mathematical skills and contrasted them with those employees from San Miguel Corp, HSBC, Citigroup and a couple more that tripped my mind, and those from AdMU and DLSU. The result was amazing but was something expected. UP students have superior mathematical skills than the others in the survey. Now, that’s up to you to believe this story. I will not force you if you won’t.

The matter that the average UP students have inferior mathematical skills is your personal opinion. Whilst that’s not yet confirmed, I’d like to believe that that is true, in relation to the average math majors of Ateneo and DLSU, and of course, to you, being a PhD in math student yourself. But to assert that the average Ateneo students have superior mathematical skills than the UPD students is the one, in my opinion, that’s something to be desired. At least, I have proof to back me up (though unsearchable through the web but there is) and you don’t.


Most students from UP don't do math very well either. I'm guessing you are from either the college of science or the college of engineering, and perhaps you haven't experienced much outside the borders of your own college, so I don't blame you. However, it may be instructive to go out once in a while and start talking to philosophy majors, those doing tourism or social work or women's studies or music, or even perhaps business majors of Diliman. You may be quite surprised at how intelligent and intellectually interesting these guys are, and yet how clueless they are about whatever maths you're passionate about. At the end of the day, they just don't care about math.

You missed my point again. When did I ever say that the average UPD students’ mathematical skills are good or superior? I only said it’s better than the average Ateneo/DLSU students. That does not mean much when it’s not benchmarked against Ateneo/DLSU’s because the result of the study was relative to the Ateneans’ mathematical abilities.

Now, if you’d ask me: are the mathematical skills of the average UP students superior? I cannot give you any definite answer. I’ll tell you I’m sorry pointblank. But if you’d ask me this way: Is the average UPD student’s mathematical skills better than the average Ateneo student? Then I have an answer for that and you obviously know what that is.






It just turns out that among the UP students who are here, most are not doing PhDs in mathematically-demanding fields. So they themselves would admit that they're not too good in math. On the other hand, two of us Ateneans here are in math fields. So naturally, we've had to help several of our UP friends with their statistics at times, which is no different from how we would help fellow Ateneans who don't do math too. So again the point is the "general student" has so-so math skills, regardless of where they graduate from.

That’s just a personal anecdote and an incident of a case-to-case basis. Therefore that shouldn’t be taken with merit because I’m sure that’s not always the case at grad school scenes in other universities. Just because there were two Ateneans who tutored math to 2 UP students would make the average Ateneans better than the average UP students. Nor should I take merit for my case when I count the dominant number of UP students at MSA at and several math tutorial schools in Metro Manila tutoring Ateneo students.



No school has a monopoly over mathematically-challenged students.
Nagpapatawa ka ba? A mathematically-challenged person is a person who suffers from mathematical skills. Lol…….




No, they are. But they're also a very limited source of information. To discredit a university based on your experience of 8 cousins suggests two things: (a) You're young, naive, and perhaps need some more time for the world to re-educate you, and (b) you're not a UP student, or at best a very ill-trained one.


Are saying that I have to meet and test ALL Ateneo students to make up a “rough” conclusion?



For the record, I also know too many UP alumni who were ACET rejects. They don't mind, and they don't care. Admirably, they're confident enough in who they are to be bothered by any of this.

Many? How many? 2, 3, 4?






For my amusement, I sent your comment to our pinoy grad student mailing group here in my current university. In the spirit of Christmas though, I will spare you the comments I got from your fellow UP alumni. Be advised though that it ain't looking too good for you.
You’re good with stories dude. I doubt that a PhD student would make a snide remark to a fellow UP student without a good ground.

The one thing I’ve learned from my UP education is that I’m not pampered. I’m trained to absorb whatever is thrown at me. I’m sure your UP friends know what I’m saying. So, if they say something not good to me (without any basis at all), I’m prepared to take that. That means, you can post what they said to you here and I won’t be bothered a bit. Go ahead.




Again, to your friend who intends to study in the Philippines: figure out what research turns him/her on, email the professors from UP, ADMU, and DLSU, who are invested in it, and then determine what's the best fit. That's the only way one gets an enriching graduate experience.

You did not read my post again. My friend’s options are DLSU and AdMU only. UP’s Math is too tough for him to handle. His undergrad major was Economics not math and his advisers have told him both DLSU and AdMU are good alternatives.

Anyway, he has already contacted DLSU and has asked them about DLSU’s graduate level math programs. I’m not sure if he has already done the same thing with AdMU. Could you help him? I’ll give you his email address through PM if you don’t mind. Or you can introduce him to someone whom you know from the math department.

[lebron_paul]

Point taken. It's hard to read anything else from the way you phrase it though. You say "Ateneans from AB and BS", but then all programs in Ateneo are either of these two. Naturally, one would deduce that you were referring to all Ateneans (except for the exclusions you made -- eg. math, ME, Eco-H). What you're now saying doesn't appear to be simplifying your point, but revising it.

Revise? What did I revise? And if I did revise the construction of my statement, how would that destroy the whole point? Simplify or revise or whatever… it doesn’t matter. What matters is that I made the point and you understood it.

Now, let me say this again for the 3rd time: The average mathematical skills of the undergrad Ateneo students that I met/got acquainted/know are so-so to average, except those students from ME and Eco-Honours, and those who are majoring Math, expectedly. Now, allow me to expand that list. I forgot to mention those students who major Com Sci, Management-Honours, Physics and Chem.
But let me remind you that the reason I said that was to respond to bluemarc’s assertion that the Ateneans are known to have the best mathematical skills.




I am not going to refute what you say though about "general Ateneans", because that is, by and large, quite true. However, it's also very misleading. The fact is, generally, students from all universities have so-so math skills. That UP may be different is something to be desired, but unfortunately just isn't true.

Well, that’s your opinion and I will respect that. But let me tell you something. In 2002, a group of graduate Psychology students from UPD have conducted a research about the average UP students’ mathematical skills and contrasted them with those employees from San Miguel Corp, HSBC, Citigroup and a couple more that tripped my mind, and those from AdMU and DLSU. The result was amazing but was something expected. UP students have superior mathematical skills than the others in the survey. Now, that’s up to you to believe this story. I will not force you if you won’t.

The matter that the average UP students have inferior mathematical skills is your personal opinion. Whilst that’s not yet confirmed, I’d like to believe that that is true, in relation to the average math majors of Ateneo and DLSU, and of course, to you, being a PhD in math student yourself. But to assert that the average Ateneo students have superior mathematical skills than the UPD students is the one, in my opinion, that’s something to be desired. At least, I have proof to back me up (though unsearchable through the web but there is) and you don’t.


Most students from UP don't do math very well either. I'm guessing you are from either the college of science or the college of engineering, and perhaps you haven't experienced much outside the borders of your own college, so I don't blame you. However, it may be instructive to go out once in a while and start talking to philosophy majors, those doing tourism or social work or women's studies or music, or even perhaps business majors of Diliman. You may be quite surprised at how intelligent and intellectually interesting these guys are, and yet how clueless they are about whatever maths you're passionate about. At the end of the day, they just don't care about math.

You missed my point again. When did I ever say that the average UPD students’ mathematical skills are good or superior? I only said it’s better than the average Ateneo/DLSU students. That does not mean much when it’s not benchmarked against Ateneo/DLSU’s because the result of the study was relative to the Ateneans’ mathematical abilities.

Now, if you’d ask me: are the mathematical skills of the average UP students superior? I cannot give you any definite answer. I’ll tell you I’m sorry pointblank. But if you’d ask me this way: Is the average UPD student’s mathematical skills better than the average Ateneo student? Then I have an answer for that and you obviously know what that is.






It just turns out that among the UP students who are here, most are not doing PhDs in mathematically-demanding fields. So they themselves would admit that they're not too good in math. On the other hand, two of us Ateneans here are in math fields. So naturally, we've had to help several of our UP friends with their statistics at times, which is no different from how we would help fellow Ateneans who don't do math too. So again the point is the "general student" has so-so math skills, regardless of where they graduate from.

That’s just a personal anecdote and an incident of a case-to-case basis. Therefore that shouldn’t be taken with merit because I’m sure that’s not always the case at grad school scenes in other universities. Just because there were two Ateneans who tutored math to 2 UP students would make the average Ateneans better than the average UP students. Nor should I take merit for my case when I count the dominant number of UP students at MSA at and several math tutorial schools in Metro Manila tutoring Ateneo students.



No school has a monopoly over mathematically-challenged students.
Nagpapatawa ka ba? A mathematically-challenged person is a person who suffers from mathematical skills. Lol…….




No, they are. But they're also a very limited source of information. To discredit a university based on your experience of 8 cousins suggests two things: (a) You're young, naive, and perhaps need some more time for the world to re-educate you, and (b) you're not a UP student, or at best a very ill-trained one.


Are saying that I have to meet and test ALL Ateneo students to make up a “rough” conclusion?



For the record, I also know too many UP alumni who were ACET rejects. They don't mind, and they don't care. Admirably, they're confident enough in who they are to be bothered by any of this.

Many? How many? 2, 3, 4?






For my amusement, I sent your comment to our pinoy grad student mailing group here in my current university. In the spirit of Christmas though, I will spare you the comments I got from your fellow UP alumni. Be advised though that it ain't looking too good for you.
You’re good with stories dude. I doubt that a PhD student would make a snide remark to a fellow UP student without a good ground.

The one thing I’ve learned from my UP education is that I’m not pampered. I’m trained to absorb whatever is thrown at me. I’m sure your UP friends know what I’m saying. So, if they say something not good to me (without any basis at all), I’m prepared to take that. That means, you can post what they said to you here and I won’t be bothered a bit. Go ahead.




Again, to your friend who intends to study in the Philippines: figure out what research turns him/her on, email the professors from UP, ADMU, and DLSU, who are invested in it, and then determine what's the best fit. That's the only way one gets an enriching graduate experience.

You did not read my post again. My friend’s options are DLSU and AdMU only. UP’s Math is too tough for him to handle. His undergrad major was Economics not math and his advisers have told him both DLSU and AdMU are good alternatives.

Anyway, he has already contacted DLSU and has asked them about DLSU’s graduate level math programs. I’m not sure if he has already done the same thing with AdMU. Could you help him? I’ll give you his email address through PM if you don’t mind. Or you can introduce him to someone whom you know from the math department.

[Shinobi No Kami]

Check out the IMAMIS (International Masters in Applied Mathematics and Information Science) program of UPD.

Program Partners

Universite de Nice Sophia-Antipolis (UNSA)
University of the Philippines Diliman
Ateneo de Manila University
Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia (UKM)
Institute of Mathematics Hanoi (IMH)
Universite de La Rochelle (ULR)
Universita di Pisa (UniPisa)
Universidad Autonoma de Madrid
Universite Pierre et Marie Curie (Paris 6)


I. Ateneo
Total PhD Count: 16
PhD from outside the Phils: 6
EMMANUEL A. CABRAL
Ph.D., Nanyang Technological University
Integration Theory

JUMELA F. SARMIENTO
Ph.D, Kyushu University
Design Theory, Finite Geometry

RAFAEL P. SALDAÑA
Ph.D, Monash University
Mathematical Modeling and Computational Science

FELIX P. MUGA II
Ph.D, University of the Philippines
Combinatorial Network Theory, Graph Theory

IAN JUNE L. GARCES
Ph.D, Ateneo de Manila University
Graph Theory, Integration Theory

MA. LOUISE ANTONETTE N. DE LAS PEÑAS
Ph.D, University of the Philippines
Representation Theory of Finite Groups, Groups and Color Symmetry


ELVIRA P. DE LARA-TUPRIO (on Sabbatical SY 05-06)
Ph.D, Ateneo de Manila University
Ordinary Differential Equation, Integration Theory


ELVIRA P. DE LARA-TUPRIO (on Sabbatical SY 05-06)
Ph.D, Ateneo de Manila University
Ordinary Differential Equation, Integration Theory

MARIJO P. RUIZ
Ph.D, Ateneo de Manila University
Operations Research, Graph Theory

FR. BIENVENIDO F. NEBRES, S.J.
Ph.D, Stanford University
Mathematical Logic, Analysis

QUEENA N. LEE-CHUA
Ph.D, Ateneo de Manila University
Mathematics Education focusing on Math Cognition and Learning

JOSE A. MARASIGAN
Ph.D, Technische Hochschule Darmstadt
Geometry, Graph Theory, Financial Mathematics

NORMAN F. QUIMPO
Ph.D, Ateneo de Manila University
Graph Theory

REGINALDO M. MARCELO
Assistant Professor
Ph.D, Sophia University
Graph Theory, Group Theory

EVANGELINE P. BAUTISTA, Associate Chair
Assistant Professor
Ph.D., Ateneo de Manila University
Coding Theory

FLORDELIZA F. FRANCISCO
Assistant Professor
Ph.D., Ateneo de Manila University
Integration Theory
II. DLSU
Count: 12
PhD from outside Phils. 3:
ARCILLA, RECHEL G.
UNIVERSITY OF THE PHILIPPINES
Doctor of Philosophy in Statistics

CARPIO, KRISTINE JOY E.
AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL UNIVERSITY

DIESTO, SEVERINO D.
UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO - CO

GERVACIO, SEVERINO V.
Specialization: COMBINATORICS, GRAPH THEORY
ATENEO DE MANILA UNIVERSITY

JOS, ISAGANI B.
Specialization: ACTUARIAL SCIENCE, GRAPH THEORY
DE LA SALLE UNIVERSITY

LIM, YVETTE F.
Specialization: GRAPH THEORY
DE LA SALLE UNIVERSITY

NOCON, EDERLINA G.
Specialization: CODING THEORY
DE LA SALLE UNIVERSITY

PACIFICADOR, ARTURO JR. Y.
Statistics
UNIVERSITY OF THE PHILIPPINES

PASCASIO, ARLENE A.
DISTANCE REGULAR GRAPHS, FINITE GEOMETRY
UNIVERSITY OF THE PHILIPPINES

PEREZ, EDMUNDO JR. R.
Specialization: ALGEBRA, GROUP THEORY
UNIVERSITY OF THE PHILIPPINES

REYES, JOSE TRISTAN F.
Specialization: FUNCTIONAL ANALYSIS, INTEGRATION
UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA - NE

RUIVIVAR, LEONOR A
Specialization: COMPLEX ANALYSIS, GRAPH THEORY
UNIVERSITY OF THE PHILIPPINES

Bottom Line: AdMU > DLSU
Check out UPD Math

[lebron_paul]

I reposted the same topic (as well as my responses) on the the campus chat forum. It's better to continue there. I have NO idea why the moderators transferred this here when they keep on holding responses and asking for more time (hours upon hours) before they finally post the message for the public to read. Makes some posts old.

[ubermensch]

UPD has the most notorious math program by anyone’s standard and my foreign friend obviously knew that that’s why he doesn’t want to go there. He obviously wants to enjoy his stay in the Philippines whist going through his postgrad program. He’s convinced he wouldn’t experience that if he’ll go to UPD.

What do you mean he wants to "enjoy" so he'll take up his math grad studies in Ateneo or DLSU instead? I had a taste of the math grad program in Ateneo and it's no walk in the park.


My Math friend (math friend... ahahahah) says that the basic difference between the two universities' Math programs is that AdMU is very academic in their Math style, concentrating more on the intricacies at the base of Mathematics. In summary, Math as Science. In DLSU, math is looked at more in it's applied areas, or more into the higher applied aspects. In summary, Math as Application. I hope this is of some help...:)

I tend to agree with this, although my only basis is the impression I have regarding the math undergrad programs of the two universities. I could vouch at least for the Ateneo math grad program, but not for the DLSU program.


The majority of the Math Olympiad finanlists have gone to UP. I'm quite sure about this one. The remaining few have gone to Ateneo and DLSU, but I'm not sure which between them have absorbed more math olympiad finalists than the other.

(regarding some dlsu math faculty doing their grad studies in admu) Good information. Is there any chance that you will provide your source for saying that?


well, it also depends rin kasi kung ano nung course na kinuha nila eventually sa college. a lot of my contemporaries, while very competent and interested in math, didn't want to take math as a college major. other than the hard sciences, the more math intensive courses are the engineering courses, of which UP has a lot of. so a lot of math olympiad finalists (I assume you're referring to the philippine math olympiad) going to up is not a statement regarding the quality of math in admu or dlsu. last 2005, we had six filipino contestants to the international math olympiad in mexico. all of them are in ateneo right now.

about some dlsu math faculty who did their math grad studies in ateneo, two people i can remember are blessilda raposa and severino gervacio.


But here's what I do know though. Roughly about a decade ago, 5 of the top 10 in the individual competition of the PMO went to Ateneo.

1st: Cornell
2nd: Ateneo
3rd: UP-D
4th:UP-D, then some California university -- I lost touch with her.
5th: UP-D
6th: Ateneo
7th: UP-D
8th: Ateneo
9th: Ateneo -- Me! :)
10th: Ateneo


physicist, i can't help but be curious as to who you are, if we're contemporaries, although i believe i'm older than you. we probably have common friends, hahaha.

nung first placer who went to cornell, is this by any chance a guy from xavier? :lol: just a guess

hi! i am a math major of the ateneo. i am now on my fifth year (master's level) in my program (master of scienece in applied mathematics, major in mathematical finance). the best place where to take up your master's degree actually depends on which math you want to take up. if its math per se, i would go for UP (we're talking of the graduate program here). if it's applied math, i would go for AdMU's mathematical finance program.

i agree. depende sa math na gustong i-take up. ang maganda sa math grad program ng up, ang ganda ng diversity nila when it comes to research topics. kesyo applied or pure math. sa ateneo, since maliit lang rin kasi ang population, di ka makaka-expect masyado ng diversity. ang areas ng ateneo math are analysis (integration theory), algebra and combinatorics, at recently nga nung mathematical finance. pero dun sa friend ng threadstarter, if i am not mistaken, nung ms math finance is integrated into the 5-year bs/ms program, so hindi pwedeng pumasok na nung ms math fin lang ang degree intention.


p.s. : indeed, CHED says that the best math professors are in ateneo (in terms of Ph.D.'s, etc.)

nakow, subjective yan, hehehe. di mo rin masasabi kung sino ang best math professors kasi iba-iba ang expertise rin eh. so kung plano mo nga talaga mag-grad school, while kailangan magkaroon ng magandang working relationship with the adviser, ang unang consideration muna ay ang interests mo. nung gusto mong pasuking research area eh available ba sa university na papasukan mo?


p.s. 4 : in the undergrad program, i believe that the curriculum of the ateneo is more rigorous than that of UP's. however, i think that students of the UP math dept are inherently smarter than ateneo math majors (though the math gems are in ateneo).


while i won't give up the jesuit brainwashing (:rotflmao:) i got from ateneo, i have to admit that up math undergrads have an advantage kasi mas marami silang exposure sa math. sa ateneo kasi, nakakain ng core curriculum courses ang karamihan sa mga units.


p.s. 6 : indeed, the ateneo math dept has got the most number of award-reaping students in the philippines. the ateneo mnath dept is the ONLY math dept in the phils to have placed in the international math olympiad (IMO). it also has consistently grabbed the topmost spot in local math competitions such as the national statistics quiz bee (i guess for 6 years now?), phil. math olympiad, etc.

just to set the record straight, nung philippine math olympiad is for high school students. while the head of the pmo this year is from admu, they're doing this in their capacity as members of the mathematical society of the philippines (msp). nung international math olympiad rin, since the philippines started participating, ateneo kasi ang nag-o-organize, pero starting this year, nagsimula na ang transition para msp na ang mag-o-organize ng training at logistics ng contestants natin. tsaka nung pag-place sa imo, they're not representing admu math. it's just that for the longest time, admu math ang nag-organize ng philippine participation.

[n3X]

On "general" undergrad students

What do you guys mean by "general" ba? Kasi for me, I would interpret this as yung "average" student. Kung ito, I would say that the "average" UP student is better than the "average" Ateneo in basic math skills. Yes, kahit anong school naman maraming students "takot" sa math e. But consider na majority ng population ng UP students e taga-Engg and Science plus maraming pang courses in other colleges na hanggang Calculus pa yung required even in the Social Sciences. In fairness din sa Philo majors and Tourism, knowledgeable din sila sa Math. And mas lalo sa Business majors of Diliman. BA has been reported to get the top students among the other colleges and marami rin kaming courses that involves math. One of my experiences nung undergrad sa isang business quantitative course namin e nagshowdown yung mga henyo dun sa math apps. Most wouldn't "care" about Math dahil isusuka na mga yan, mula high school pa, but it doesnt mean we're clueless. Plus one of the major components ng UPCAT is math, so sinasala din yung mga students dun. Kahit yung Fine Arts dapat mataas din score niya sa math to get in sa Diliman for example. So considering those facts, I would definitely say that the "average" UP student is better than an "average" Atenean. And physicist, to tell lebron na s/he is young, naive, etc. dahil based yung isang belief niya dun sa 8 cousins is hypocritical on your part when you said that most UP grad students in your school in the US are not in mathematically-demanding fields. Pareho lang yung "limited source of information."

On Mathematical Finance

Read on sa curriculum ng Masters ng Applied Math and Masters in Finance ng UP CBA. Some profs are even published in those fields. Meron din Applied Math sa LB. Both Math Depts are COEs. And sa National Stat Quiz Bee hindi laging topmost ang Ateneo, altho sa alam ko laging may place. This could also be said of other schools. Baka kapag kinombine mo yung Math depts ng UP system, its very probable mas maraming recognitions ang UP. Sayang lang, walang maraming pera ang UP. At sana'y may nagaganap din na recruitment programs.

[physicist]

Ah. It's good to find people I can disagree with, but aren't disagreeable.


Now, let me say this again for the 3rd time: The average mathematical skills of the undergrad Ateneo students that I met/got acquainted/know are so-so to average, except those students from ME and Eco-Honours, and those who are majoring Math, expectedly. Now, allow me to expand that list. I forgot to mention those students who major Com Sci, Management-Honours, Physics and Chem.

So let me get this straight, you're assessment is about Ateneo students who aren't in honors programs.

If that's the case, you're right! They do have so-so math skills. That's really no surprise though.

In 2002, a group of graduate Psychology students from UPD have conducted a research about the average UP students’ mathematical skills and contrasted them with those employees from San Miguel Corp, HSBC, Citigroup and a couple more that tripped my mind, and those from AdMU and DLSU. The result was amazing but was something expected. UP students have superior mathematical skills than the others in the survey. Now, that’s up to you to believe this story.

I'll believe your story. But it's one thing to believe that a survey was made, and another to accept interpretations and draw the conclusions you assert here. In other words, I would have to see that survey myself.

As you probably know, interpreting statistics is always a tricky thing. For this one, we'd have to look at population selection and test construction. Particularly, who were the people they tested?

However, the fact that such a survey was made is interesting to know. So thanks. I'd want to see that though before taking any step further.

The matter that the average UP students have inferior mathematical skills is your personal opinion. Whilst that’s not yet confirmed, I’d like to believe that that is true, in relation to the average math majors of Ateneo and DLSU, and of course, to you, being a PhD in math student yourself.

Hmm. I don't carry this opinion. It's strange that you think so.

The point was simply that students from non-quantitative fields are generally weak in math, regardless of where they're from.


But to assert that the average Ateneo students have superior mathematical skills than the UPD students is the one, in my opinion, that’s something to be desired.

I never asserted this. :confused: I find it odd again that you think so.

However, it is something to be desired, though quite likely to be untrue.

At least, I have proof to back me up (though unsearchable through the web but there is) and you don’t.

As far as I can tell, you don't have "proof" either.

A survey that none of us truly understand does not count as proof in anyone's books.

You missed my point again. When did I ever say that the average UPD students’ mathematical skills are good or superior? I only said it’s better than the average Ateneo/DLSU students. That does not mean much when it’s not benchmarked against Ateneo/DLSU’s because the result of the study was relative to the Ateneans’ mathematical abilities.

Now, if you’d ask me: are the mathematical skills of the average UP students superior? I cannot give you any definite answer. I’ll tell you I’m sorry pointblank. But if you’d ask me this way: Is the average UPD student’s mathematical skills better than the average Ateneo student? Then I have an answer for that and you obviously know what that is.

Now wait a minute. I think you missed my point.

The benchmarking against Ateneans/Lasallites was implicit in the whole discussion. I've never implied "good" or "superior" in any absolute sense (if that's even meaningful at all).

Your question, "Is the average UPD student’s mathematical skills better than the average Ateneo student?", was what I had in mind all along.

Anecdotal survey aside, my personal experiences with UP and Ateneo students suggest a categorical "NO".


That’s just a personal anecdote and an incident of a case-to-case basis. Therefore that shouldn’t be taken with merit because I’m sure that’s not always the case at grad school scenes in other universities. Just because there were two Ateneans who tutored math to 2 UP students would make the average Ateneans better than the average UP students. Nor should I take merit for my case when I count the dominant number of UP students at MSA at and several math tutorial schools in Metro Manila tutoring Ateneo students.

What are you talking about? :confused: You're trying to shoot down an imagined assertion here.

Much of your reply sounds really silly because it's founded on a mistaken premise. There never was an assertion of superiority from me.

The "anecdotes" were meant to point out that what our assessment of a population's math skills is a function of our limited experience. I offered my own experiences primarily to supplement and inform your own.

Nagpapatawa ka ba? A mathematically-challenged person is a person who suffers from mathematical skills. Lol…….

Uhmm... yeah. :confused: And that precisely was my point. No school as has more or less of these.

So I take from that you just didn't get it.

Are saying that I have to meet and test ALL Ateneo students to make up a “rough” conclusion?

No. But as this is obviously an impossibility, it is wiser and more prudent to suspend (or even perhaps avoid) judgment on undecidables.

Many? How many? 2, 3, 4?

How's 50+? ;)

You’re good with stories dude. I doubt that a PhD student would make a snide remark to a fellow UP student without a good ground.

The one thing I’ve learned from my UP education is that I’m not pampered. I’m trained to absorb whatever is thrown at me. I’m sure your UP friends know what I’m saying. So, if they say something not good to me (without any basis at all), I’m prepared to take that. That means, you can post what they said to you here and I won’t be bothered a bit. Go ahead.

I'll be sending you my contact info personally as soon as I'm done with this. Let's chat there if you think that's better for you. You may even check out my creds, if you really doubt that I am who I am.

But for all your vaunted UP education is worth, you're sounding like one who didn't pass the ACET. That hadn't even crossed my mind until one of my UP friends here brought it to my attention. His point -- someone who's passed all entrance exams wouldn't be too invested in "proving" he/she goes to the better school. Anyone smart enough would know that that's a waste of time.

Oh, and another comment from them? Here's something close to verbatim: Pabayaan mo na yan, wala pang alam yan sa buhay.

You asked for it.

But anyway, if you want to take it up elsewhere, so as to spare most people here of more not-too-instructive discussions, email me through the info that I'm sending.

You did not read my post again. My friend’s options are DLSU and AdMU only. UP’s Math is too tough for him to handle. His undergrad major was Economics not math and his advisers have told him both DLSU and AdMU are good alternatives.

Anyway, he has already contacted DLSU and has asked them about DLSU’s graduate level math programs. I’m not sure if he has already done the same thing with AdMU. Could you help him? I’ll give you his email address through PM if you don’t mind. Or you can introduce him to someone whom you know from the math department.

No, I did read your post. But my point is that UP's masteral might just prove more beneficial to him. UP, being the larger school, also has a larger faculty, and perhaps a broader research base. And besides, UP (just like Ateneo/DLSU) advises remedials for less-prepared students. Your friend will be in good hands wherever he chooses to go.

And at Ateneo, tell him to look for Dr. Marasigan, Dr. Ruiz, or Dr. De Lara-Tuprio. They're the faculty I know best. But I think program-wise the chair should be most useful for this, so he may want to contact Dr. Marcelo instead.

[physicist]

physicist, i can't help but be curious as to who you are, if we're contemporaries, although i believe i'm older than you. we probably have common friends, hahaha.

nung first placer who went to cornell, is this by any chance a guy from xavier? :lol: just a guess

Yep. :) Our champion was from Xavier, and as far as I know, he did go to Cornell for his bachelor's. I never really got a chance to talk to him during the PMO though.

[physicist]

And physicist, to tell lebron na s/he is young, naive, etc. dahil based yung isang belief niya dun sa 8 cousins is hypocritical on your part when you said that most UP grad students in your school in the US are not in mathematically-demanding fields. Pareho lang yung "limited source of information."

My attribution of naivete is due to his passing judgment based on these 8 cousins.

I wasn't saying that UP is worse than Ateneo because of my experiences. My point was that our ideas about a certain population of students depends on our own very limited experiences. So yes, you're right. Both of us have "limited sources of information". The difference is that I am mindful of that, and am careful not to consider the conclusions based on them as certainties.

My response had a simple point which at least two have already misrepresented: While some can say that they've met mathematically-challenged Ateneans, others like me have also met similar UPians. So what do we say about whose "average" students are better? Nothing. As far as I'm concerned, pare-pareho lang talaga.

Honestly, I'm not even sure it's a well-posed question to begin with. So perhaps the most prudent thing to say is the politically-correct one. That is, of course, unless UPians of today can no longer accept anyone as equals. :)

[physicist]

p.s. : indeed, CHED says that the best math professors are in ateneo (in terms of Ph.D.'s, etc.)

Ibid on ubermensch's comment to this. There's just no way CHED could've said this.

[lebron_paul]

Nagkakagulo dito kasi we keep on inserting the undergrad education. Naturally, biased opinions cannot be avoided when the topic involves our respective alma mater school. But I made it very clear from the beginning that this is for graduate level math program thread. Anyways, I appreciate the responses even if I don't agree with some of them. It's a good exercise for the math wiz/geeks though. Lol........

To physicist, I got your pm. Rest assured that my friend will get it as well. And I'm sure he will be thrilled with the assistance you provided. Thank you.

BTW, I got into Ateneo too. I guess anyone who got into UPd or UPm would find getting into AdMU a breeze. (Obviously, UPd/UPM are more difficult schools to get into than is AdMU.) And like those several thousands of witty cross-admit students who got into all their top choices, turning down UP's slot takes a whole lot of a big deal from other schools. I ended up with the best school -- UPD.

[lebron_paul]

Check out the IMAMIS (International Masters in Applied Mathematics and Information Science) program of UPD.

Program Partners

Universite de Nice Sophia-Antipolis (UNSA)
University of the Philippines Diliman
Ateneo de Manila University
Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia (UKM)
Institute of Mathematics Hanoi (IMH)
Universite de La Rochelle (ULR)
Universita di Pisa (UniPisa)
Universidad Autonoma de Madrid
Universite Pierre et Marie Curie (Paris 6)

[/B]


This looks a pretty nice program to get onto. Where can foreign students inquire about this program?

[paenggoy]

Your friend should first apply to each school, take any exams, etc. From there, use a matrix containing fields like tuition, availability of scholarships, cost of housing, reasons for wanting to take an MS, flexibility of program, preferred field of study, etc., and then weigh the fields and rank the programs.

[ubermensch]

hahaha physicist. magkakilala nga tayo. it's a small small world :glee:

lebron_paul, why does your friend want to do his/her grad studies in math? seeing that he's an econ major, if he decides to eventually go to ateneo, he'll be required to take some of the math undergraduate courses (advanced calculus, abstract algebra, complex analysis, etc) before he can take the usual math grad courses.

[n3X]

My attribution of naivete is due to his passing judgment based on these 8 cousins.

I wasn't saying that UP is worse than Ateneo because of my experiences. My point was that our ideas about a certain population of students depends on our own very limited experiences. So yes, you're right. Both of us have "limited sources of information". The difference is that I am mindful of that, and am careful not to consider the conclusions based on them as certainties.

My response had a simple point which at least two have already misrepresented: While some can say that they've met mathematically-challenged Ateneans, others like me have also met similar UPians. So what do we say about whose "average" students are better? Nothing. As far as I'm concerned, pare-pareho lang talaga.

Honestly, I'm not even sure it's a well-posed question to begin with. So perhaps the most prudent thing to say is the politically-correct one. That is, of course, unless UPians of today can no longer accept anyone as equals. :)

I agree sa first and for the most part. Pero yung politically-correct is the prudent thing to say? What makes a statement politically-correct? Cant we state what, in our own opinion, is the fairest judgment on the case? Hindi ba yung summation din ng best appraisals natin ang "truth" sa situation? Post post-modern na tayo no.

We would accept anyone as our equal kahit superior ***, di nagyayabang ang UP unreasonably sa fields. Last 2005, ang weakest na fields e interior design sa Diliman and accountancy sa UP Visayas. People saw those passing rates, etc. Acknowledged na UST and PSID were leading. Medyo olats kahit hanggang ngayon yung accountancy ng UPV in Iloilo and Tacloban. Pero yun nga, opportunity for growth yun. Recently top school ang Dil sa ID, and may kunting topnotchers na rin from UPV. Which is nice. Pero sorry na lang if we dont consider you as our equals. I would admit sa Business ganyan, naghahabulan Ateneo and UP. But in math skills? Given what I've seen and known plus discounting yung outliers, I wouldn't say na mas maraming mathematically-challenged sa UP kesa Ateneo. Sorry pero kahit sa difficulty and notoriety ng math pa lang sa amin e di ako papayag. :lol:

[hahahaok]

Off topic:
Anyone from UPD Math? I would just like to know where Dr. Jimmy Viloria has been these days? I took my Linear Math under him 3 years ago, and it was a sure hell. Luckily, I passed (only a third of his class, I think. Most of us were from EEE). He always wore his UCLA shirt. Did he took his PhD. there? Just curious.

On topic:
With p1215's post, I'll go to Ateneo.

[cretinous00]

He's looking in the wrong places. the only real graduate school for math here is at UP diliman. getting in is easy enough. but he has to be really good if he wants to finish and go on to PhD.

[cretinous00]

What kind of mathematicians are the people here when they argue absolute merits of institutions based on their personal experiences gathered during a fixed time frame? :rolleyes:

[physicist]

hahaha physicist. magkakilala nga tayo. it's a small small world :glee:

Nasa kabilang dulo ng mundo na nga tayo, dito lang pala mag-aabot sa pinoyexchange. ;) Gaano ba kalamig sa Purdue ngayon?! :lol:

Boys and girls, ingat kayo dito kay ubermensch, aka nietzschean superman. :) Unlike any of us here, this guy actually represented our country in the International Math Olympiad. Be advised. :)

[physicist]

What kind of mathematicians are the people here when they argue absolute merits of institutions based on their personal experiences gathered during a fixed time frame? :rolleyes:

The kind who aren't really mathematicians and who don't know much about math departments.

Read the whole exchange. I was prompted to post something here precisely because of people "[arguing] absolute merits of institutions based on their personal experiences gathered during a fixed time frame".

That makes two of us trying to stress that they mustn't.

[physicist]

Cant we state what, in our own opinion, is the fairest judgment on the case? Hindi ba yung summation din ng best appraisals natin ang "truth" sa situation? Post post-modern na tayo no.

Interesting reply.

Yes, of course. One has a right to opinions. However, what's more important is to keep oneself constantly re-informed and re-educated so that "opinions", in the long run, get ever closer to the "truth".
My own experiences of some UPians was shared to supplement your own. That way, all of us end up reaching a more coherent picture.

I say interesting though because you ask a rather subtle question. Is the summation of our best appraisals "truth"? Mahirap sagutin. Mostly, for obvious reasons, I tend to lean towards the affirmative on this. Sometimes though I'm not too sure. When the civilized world believed the world was flat, did the summation their best appraisals approximate "truth"?

I'm no expert, but post-post-modern can be just as wacky as its post-modern ancestor. We can go on and on about this, but let's spare everyone else here from our philosophical tendencies. Best to move to a different forum. Or PM me, if you feel like discussing it. ;)

Sorry pero kahit sa difficulty and notoriety ng math pa lang sa amin e di ako papayag. :lol:

I suppose you've had Math classes at Ateneo then. ;)

[i_am_belisarius]

Accouting graduate here! How come in our company, I'm the only one who seems to know basic statistics and single-variable regression? We have our fair share of BAAs from UP, MEs from Ateneo and Lasallians whose courses I can't even pronounce.

[kungpow]

I?? V???, is that you? hahaha

Interesting reply.

Yes, of course. One has a right to opinions. However, what's more important is to keep oneself constantly re-informed and re-educated so that "opinions", in the long run, get ever closer to the "truth".
My own experiences of some UPians was shared to supplement your own. That way, all of us end up reaching a more coherent picture.

I say interesting though because you ask a rather subtle question. Is the summation of our best appraisals "truth"? Mahirap sagutin. Mostly, for obvious reasons, I tend to lean towards the affirmative on this. Sometimes though I'm not too sure. When the civilized world believed the world was flat, did the summation their best appraisals approximate "truth"?

I'm no expert, but post-post-modern can be just as wacky as its post-modern ancestor. We can go on and on about this, but let's spare everyone else here from our philosophical tendencies. Best to move to a different forum. Or PM me, if you feel like discussing it. ;)



I suppose you've had Math classes at Ateneo then. ;)

[ubermensch]

physicist :bash:. binuko mo ako. tagal na yun.
malamig dito ngayon, wehehe. not so bad. at least above freezing ang temp. may friends ako dito, nagroadtrip diyan sa florida. they asked me to join, but maybe next time. i'll make sure to drop by.

ganito lang ang masasabi ko for now regarding the topic. choose the university with the math program that most suits your interests. throw prestige out the window (well, at least don't let it be your overriding concern) since it's subjective. tsaka the centers of excellence in math are not coe's for nothing. lahat yan may kanya-kanyang strengths, kahit di tayo pamilyar sa kanila, like msu-iit (marawi state university).

[n3X]

I say interesting though because you ask a rather subtle question. Is the summation of our best appraisals "truth"? Mahirap sagutin. Mostly, for obvious reasons, I tend to lean towards the affirmative on this. Sometimes though I'm not too sure. When the civilized world believed the world was flat, did the summation their best appraisals approximate "truth"?

To your question: of course not. Alam natin yung philosophical discussions about this. But then one would ask, yun na ba yung best appraisal na the world is flat? Ano yung naging basis nila for believing that, and ano yung "civilized world" na yun? Was it yung West? Nung bumabangon pa lang ang Western Civilization after the Dark Ages, yung mga ancient civilizations sa West and East Asia, North Africa and Central America have already plotted stars and measured the earth. That question is already nitpicking.


I suppose you've had Math classes at Ateneo then. ;)

Nope. But we were talking about the students. Dont confuse the subject.

[physicist]

I?? V???, is that you? hahaha

Yikes, that's not fair! :) Unti-unti nang nawawala ang anonymity ko.

Kungpow, sino ka? Dami ko palang kilala sa pinoyexchange. Send me a PM. :)

[physicist]

To your question: of course not. Alam natin yung philosophical discussions about this. But then one would ask, yun na ba yung best appraisal na the world is flat? Ano yung naging basis nila for believing that, and ano yung "civilized world" na yun? Was it yung West? Nung bumabangon pa lang ang Western Civilization after the Dark Ages, yung mga ancient civilizations sa West and East Asia, North Africa and Central America have already plotted stars and measured the earth. That question is already nitpicking.

Exactly. The simple point is that often a group of people (us here, for instance) can be so certain about something that turns out to be false. The world once believed as flat by Westerners was what first came to mind. Whether the whole world believed this to be true (at the same time) is irrelevant. The West believed it, and they were wrong.

Let me make the analogy more explicit. The West -- possibleng ikaw. East asians at the time who knew better -- possibleng ako. "The world is flat" -- possibleng "average UP students are better than average Ateneo students in math". Dahil walang dialogue between the two, or dahil siguro sa superiority complex ng isa, eh umiral ng matagal ang maling idea.

Nope. But we were talking about the students. Dont confuse the subject.

I wasn't. You're the one who said that "sa difficulty pa lang ng Math sa inyo di ka na papayag", or something to that extent. So I just presumed you've taken Math in Ateneo too, as you seem so certain about which one's more difficult.

[n3X]

Exactly. The simple point is that often a group of people (us here, for instance) can be so certain about something that turns out to be false. The world once believed as flat by Westerners was what first came to mind. Whether the whole world believed this to be true (at the same time) is irrelevant. The West believed it, and they were wrong.

Let me make the analogy more explicit. The West -- possibleng ikaw. East asians at the time who knew better -- possibleng ako. "The world is flat" -- possibleng "average UP students are better than average Ateneo students in math". Dahil walang dialogue between the two, or dahil siguro sa superiority complex ng isa, eh umiral ng matagal ang maling idea.

I got it the first time around. Tapos na yan. We acknowledged na yung limited source of information nating pareho. And naturally, lahat tayo dito meron gustong paniwalaan. But these statements are just creating an excuse para magkaroon ng space pa yung topic. Ang simple lang naman e. We dont need a spaceship or a supercomputer to resolve this. Kung kinuha mo ba yung average UP students (na karamihan science and engg courses) and yung average Ateneo tapos nagkalabanan sa math, sino yung mas magaling, considering all the factors? I fully understand what you're saying. Ang makakapag-settle na talaga ng fact e kapag nagkaroon ng university wide na competition. Pero kayang kaya natin mag extend ng present facts na meron tayo ngayon.

At dahil blatant na rin (sana naman through insinuation) ang pagkabanggit ng "superiority complex," uulitin ko: sa best judgment namin, aaminin naman kung yung average UP students e mas mahina sa math talaga kesa Ateneo. In any case, hindi kami yung may reputation ng nagyayabang pero not all that naman. So I throw back that "superiority complex" back at you. :rolleyes:


I wasn't. You're the one who said that "sa difficulty pa lang ng Math sa inyo di ka na papayag", or something to that extent. So I just presumed you've taken Math in Ateneo too, as you seem so certain about which one's more difficult.

I concede with this. You're right. *okay* But with the students nga.

[paenggoy]

Your friend should probably look at the field of concentration or branch of mathematics that wants to study and then look at the programs of various schools in the Philippines which offers that field. From there, he can look at the roster and look at faculty members who teach that specialization and then inquire via e-mail to them and to the program director. He should probably mention his plans (e.g., what he wants to study for his thesis, what he intends to do after being awarded a degree, etc.). He should also look at the availability of equipment or laboratories (if they are needed) for his field, tuition and the availability of scholarships, and other needs (such as accommodations and cost of living). This will allow him to limit his choices to fewer schools, where he can apply and fulfill any requirements such as entrance exams. He can decide where to enroll after receiving application results.

[_ozzakii]

I would assume that with regards to the level of difficulty of the graduate level mathematics, both schools (Ateneo and DLSU-Manila) are almost identical. So, it’s therefore wise for the thread starter’s (TS) friend to look for fit, facilities, prestige (brand name recognition), system support, opportunities after graduation (graduate placement service) and cost. But even with these relevant measures in mind, it’s still very hard to say which between them would be best for the TS. Personally, though, I would choose DLSU-Manila due to its slightly better brand name recognition in the international scene. However, if it were undergrad Mathematics though, I would probably choose otherwise – today – something that I would never do five or so years ago.

[la_flash]

I would assume that with regards to the level of difficulty of the graduate level mathematics, both schools (Ateneo and DLSU-Manila) are almost identical. So, it’s therefore wise for the thread starter’s (TS) friend to look for fit, facilities, prestige (brand name recognition), system support, opportunities after graduation (graduate placement service) and cost. But even with these relevant measures in mind, it’s still very hard to say which between them would be best for the TS. Personally, though, I would choose DLSU-Manila due to its slightly better brand name recognition in the international scene. However, if it were undergrad Mathematics though, I would probably choose otherwise – today – something that I would never do five or so years ago.

fit? what do you mean by fit?
facilities? exactly what facilities are you referring to?

[tyanak_soo]

classrooms with blackboards, one desk and at least 20 armchairs,
one eraser per classroom and lots of chalk,
a good library
good professors
good classmates

[_ozzakii]

fit? what do you mean by fit?

Kung saan ka hiyang. Saan ang gusto mo. Saan ka nababagay.
For example, I like the high prestige level of LSE, but when I tourd the campus, I found it very small. It only has 7 buildings which are almost attached to each other. Houghton Street where the main building's entrance faces and where the students clog during their spare time is a very narrow street. I'm not claustrophobic, but I feel I can't breath well in such environment. Not only that, more than half of the students at LSE are graduate students and many of them are Asians. I don't want to go to a school that has lots of Asians. If I would want that, I would rather stay in UP. But LSE is an amazing school with great career service program. But I thought it's not the kind of school I would want to go to for undergrad education.



facilities? exactly what facilities are you referring to?

Does the math department have its own facility independent from the university facility? UP Math has its own facility and many graduate students like that they're not entirely part of the whole college system where they can concentrate more working on their research with their grad student peers. Does the foreign student like that kind of set up? I think most graduate students would, but I’m not sure what this foreign student really wants. What’s important is that it must support to the needs and requirements of the foreign student?

[n3X]

You can't "go for it" if, for example, there's no scholarship and you have to continue working full-time to pay for tuition. In fact, many grad students have to choose particular schools for this and similar reasons. That is what I meant by "convenience."

Ugh same thing. Actually one could consider yung scholarship as "convenience" in a negative light. For example, yung "lesser" university nag-offer ng scholarship for you, kukunin mo na yun kaagad? Totoo maraming can't afford and limited lang opportunities to get grants, pero one needs to think in terms of returns, hindi yung costs now. Inconvenient man yung may mga utang ka ngayon pero in the long run, you get more. So still, go for "it" (i.e. the best education).


It's not wrong to ask about these things in this forum, but bear in mind that's it's difficult to verify advice because we don't know a member's background. There are some forums such as mailing lists where members have to use their real names, non-free e-mail addresses, and signatures at the bottom of each mail (containing their name, unit affiliation, etc.), but it is not the case here, which is why the best I can give is generic advice.

The better option is to just visit the school and talk to faculty, staff, and students of the program. One can even visit the program website and send e-mail to the staff. It's not a waste of time because prospective students usually have to check the school website and visit the campus before and during application.

Alam nyo MEDYO immaterial ang background nung tao, kahit yung mga tao na and2 sa PEX e mga taga-department mismo. Malamang sa malamang, ibibida ng bawat isa yung school nila. And another thing, honestly, di siya nag-ask ** to just get "generic" advice. E di sana di na lang siya nag-post and sana nagpa-survey na lang sa neighborhood nila. Karamihan kasi sa atin dito nanggugulo na basta meron lang ma-post o matalak, okay na yun pero wala naman talagang na-aadd na value dun sa usapin. Ang kagandahan ng isang FREE and OPEN forum na ganito e meron tayong access sa knowledge ng isa't isa. Ngayon, walang sense yung kailangan pa natin iverify kung sino tayo kung paniniwalaan ba natin ang isa't-isa. Overkill yun kahit meron rin siyang benefits. Ang thing sa forums na anonymous mga tao, merong implied na trust sa ganitong exchange na kapag meron kang ini-state, factual and accurate siya. Kung ibibida mo school mo, support it with facts, data, anecdotes, etc. Ganun lang yun. Siguro naman yung tao nagawa na yung pagcheck sa website nung school or pag-ask sa mga tao tao, ngayon, ask natin sarili natin: ano pa ba ang maiaambag natin sa quest niya?


Next, a professor may be tenured, part-time, a visiting professor, a writer who does not work in the academe full-time (which means he is not tenured in any particular school), or about to retire. It's not hard to tell: just check the faculty roster and visit the school itself and talk to the staff.

In order to find out about the quality of instruction, prospective students usually talk to currently enrolled students and staff and check faculty credentials through the rosters and the prospectus. Again, this is not difficult to do as it can be done both online and during the campus visit. Of course, one can read about it here, but how will one know if what is posted is true unless one sees it in the school website and/or for himself by visiting the school and talking to students? If a member states that he is a student of such a program in this forum, how do we verify that?

Kaya nga, more or less professors just stay in one school. Di ganun kabilis ang turnover ng profs.

Yeah you said that already.

[paenggoy]

About facilities, they might include computers for some applied mathematics, if not practically much of computational mathematics. Perhaps something like this:

http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/en

That's why some math researchers often work with members of the computer science program, if not researchers working in other fields that also use computers.

Of course, if a student does not need such facilities, then a classroom with a blackboard and chalk will do.

[paenggoy]

I think you are misinterpreting "convenience." It doesn't simply refer to what makes a person comfortable or relaxed but what he can afford, whether the staff has specialists who can advise him, and so forth.

Of course, one should not enroll simply because a school offers a scholarship; that would be similar to "going for it." As I explained carefully, there are many things to consider.

About the claim that a member's background is immaterial and that this leads to a free and open discussion, I'm sure you're aware that the forum section is now being moderated.

Finally, it's true that "more or less" professors stay in one university, but the professor one wants to work with might not be around. It's even possible that one's application will not be accepted simply because there is no one in the staff who at the moment specializes in one's chosen field.


Ugh same thing. Actually one could consider yung scholarship as "convenience" in a negative light. For example, yung "lesser" university nag-offer ng scholarship for you, kukunin mo na yun kaagad? Totoo maraming can't afford and limited lang opportunities to get grants, pero one needs to think in terms of returns, hindi yung costs now. Inconvenient man yung may mga utang ka ngayon pero in the long run, you get more. So still, go for "it" (i.e. the best education).



Alam nyo MEDYO immaterial ang background nung tao, kahit yung mga tao na and2 sa PEX e mga taga-department mismo. Malamang sa malamang, ibibida ng bawat isa yung school nila. And another thing, honestly, di siya nag-ask ** to just get "generic" advice. E di sana di na lang siya nag-post and sana nagpa-survey na lang sa neighborhood nila. Karamihan kasi sa atin dito nanggugulo na basta meron lang ma-post o matalak, okay na yun pero wala naman talagang na-aadd na value dun sa usapin. Ang kagandahan ng isang FREE and OPEN forum na ganito e meron tayong access sa knowledge ng isa't isa. Ngayon, walang sense yung kailangan pa natin iverify kung sino tayo kung paniniwalaan ba natin ang isa't-isa. Overkill yun kahit meron rin siyang benefits. Ang thing sa forums na anonymous mga tao, merong implied na trust sa ganitong exchange na kapag meron kang ini-state, factual and accurate siya. Kung ibibida mo school mo, support it with facts, data, anecdotes, etc. Ganun lang yun. Siguro naman yung tao nagawa na yung pagcheck sa website nung school or pag-ask sa mga tao tao, ngayon, ask natin sarili natin: ano pa ba ang maiaambag natin sa quest niya?



Kaya nga, more or less professors just stay in one school. Di ganun kabilis ang turnover ng profs.

Yeah you said that already.