wise or waste?

[greenDestiny]

im planning to enter law school in the states in 2008. given that i have so much time on my hand and that first yr law in there is hell, or so i heard, im considering studying law here for a year. both to prepare me for the rigors as well as help me make certain that i really want to take up law.

so do you think it's a wise move? or unnecessary and therefore just a waste of money?

[urs2pid]

Waste of time and money IMO. Unless you can afford to waste both.

What's your real goal as a lawyer? To become a corporate lawyer, criminal lawyer, estate lawyer, etc.? Or an immigration attorney just like many Filipino lawyers in the USA?

Lawyers are plentiful in the USA. Those who are not exceptional usually end up finding work outside of the legal profession. The supply of lawyers significantly exceed the demand.

[mac_bolan00]

very poor way to talk to someone about careers. if he wants to be a lawyer, then by all means let him. why assume he'll end up ordinary and jobless? there are many reasons for wanting to pursue a discipline and gainful employment is just one of them.

[trauma]

Lawyers can do so many things. In small cities, they provide a lot of services and I've seen Filipino lawyers who are already partners in their firms. It's not good to generalize. BIGLAW firms are cut-throat but you can be comfortable in different practices. If you are willing to work hard and be a slave to your profession the income per hour is actually better than doctors (even if their gross income is less). I spoke to a lawyer over the phone regarding a real estate transaction over 15 minutes and I got billed $300.

[greenDestiny]

Waste of time and money IMO. Unless you can afford to waste both.

What's your real goal as a lawyer? To become a corporate lawyer, criminal lawyer, estate lawyer, etc.? Or an immigration attorney just like many Filipino lawyers in the USA?

Lawyers are plentiful in the USA. Those who are not exceptional usually end up finding work outside of the legal profession. The supply of lawyers significantly exceed the demand.

with what you have said, you seem to be discouraging me from going to law school. thanks for the concern but thats not really the answer im looking for. i think i was clear with my question of whether it is a good idea to try law here first or just go straight to the states. i wasnt really asking about whether i should be a lawyer or not. its for me to decide. :bop: *peace*

[KuyaDanny]

What other options might you have to occupy yourself until 2008?

[greenDestiny]

What other options might you have to occupy yourself until 2008?

actually not much. i am applying for an internship, which if i get accepted would run for 3 months. after that, actually law school here is my best option. if not that, i can always look for NGO/community work which could help me in my applications in the states.

[SUX2BÜ]

I would have to agree with urs2pid. There are better things than becoming a lawyer. But, of course, the cliché "follow your heart" always works. If becoming a lawyer will make you happy, go for it.

:)

[trauma]

It's better to go straight to the USA if you want to be a lawyer there. Try to make yourself attractive to competitive law schools (higher LSATs and interesting activity). In Big LAW firms there, it matters where you went to school. There is no such thing as "my profession is better than your profession", it depends on your interest and passion whether it's I-banking, law, or medicine.

[SUX2BÜ]

There is no such thing as "my profession is better than your profession", it depends on your interest and passion whether it's I-banking, law, or medicine.

I can say that my profession is way better than my apprentice's if I earn a lot more, visit 2 countries every month, am not bored and way happier than he, and it's the most exciting, incredible, and challenging profession one can only dream of.

:laugh:

[greenDestiny]

I can say that my profession is way better than my apprentice's if I earn a lot more, visit 2 countries every month, am not bored and way happier than he, and it's the most exciting, incredible, and challenging profession one can only dream of.

:laugh:

i actualy agree with this, well perhaps personally. but i get trauma's point. i think when you get the job you've always wanted to have, whether your friend gets all what you (sux2bu) mentioned or not, it wouldnt matter anymore. *okay*

[scroll]

so you want to study law here 1st, at least for a year, before you study in the US? but your end goal (i presume) is to be a lawyer in the US?

here's my take on it..

is it a wise move? well, it depends. if you dont have a background at all in law (what's your undergrad, btw?), then it could prove to be beneficial. im not familiar with US law schools, but here, 1st year law students usually have a hard time adjusting to the whole system - reading at least a dozen cases per subject everyday, countless recits, and profs who seem to get a kick out of seeing his students cringe in dismay. so if you want to get used to it, then by all means, go ahead.

waste of money? well, if you have 100k to spare then do it. i wouldnt call spending money to gain additional knowledge a complete waste. :)

[KuyaDanny]

I think there's no better preparation for attending law school than attending (another) law school. It does cost money, though.

But getting the most out of your first year means giving your maximum effort. How are you going to do that if, in your heart of hearts, you know you'll only be there for a year?

[atenean_blooded]

My suggestion to GreenDestiny is to just get a really good job while he can here, and then take up law in the States.

My stronger suggestion is to screw the plans of going to the States, take up law here, and try to make justice work in this country.

[tykemeister]

Regardless of where you take up law, law in itself is very hard. Makakatulong kung may dala kang sasakyan para may paglalagyan ang mga librong bibitbitin mo ( may isang kaklase daw siyang nagbibit ng malaking kahong puno ng libro from classroom to classroom dahil wala siyang kotse).

No pre-law course can actually prepare you for law (or so I hear, I'm not a lawyer). If ever, it would actually be Accounting that would have any use as a pre-law subject. Makakatulong din siguro ang English and suprisingly History.

Mas mura namang mag-aral ng law dito sa Pilipinas kaysa sa States. Hindi ba sa U.S. for an ordinary undergrad 4 year course you could spend as much as $200,000. What more for Law?

[greenDestiny]

My suggestion to GreenDestiny is to just get a really good job while he can here, and then take up law in the States.

My stronger suggestion is to screw the plans of going to the States, take up law here, and try to make justice work in this country.

rather than getting a job, i'm aiming for NGO/community work which i believe would help me more. besides, a really good job? what does that mean anyway?

as for your stronger suggestion, sounds noble, but nah, i never dreamed of even attempting to fix the justice system here. i might just even be swayed to contribute to the already filthy system, whch of course i would never ever want to happen but is very likely to happen. sorry for being cynical, but can you blame me? haha

[greenDestiny]

I think there's no better preparation for attending law school than attending (another) law school. It does cost money, though.

But getting the most out of your first year means giving your maximum effort. How are you going to do that if, in your heart of hearts, you know you'll only be there for a year?

simple. one, i will keep in mind that i am doing that because i have to survive first year in the states. two, if i manage to do well in some of my classes, perhaps i can get one of the professors to write me a good recommendation. i may be trying to make it sound so simple. but i think that's the best way for me.

[greenDestiny]

so you want to study law here 1st, at least for a year, before you study in the US? but your end goal (i presume) is to be a lawyer in the US?

here's my take on it..

is it a wise move? well, it depends. if you dont have a background at all in law (what's your undergrad, btw?), then it could prove to be beneficial. im not familiar with US law schools, but here, 1st year law students usually have a hard time adjusting to the whole system - reading at least a dozen cases per subject everyday, countless recits, and profs who seem to get a kick out of seeing his students cringe in dismay. so if you want to get used to it, then by all means, go ahead.

waste of money? well, if you have 100k to spare then do it. i wouldnt call spending money to gain additional knowledge a complete waste. :)

i was a business management major. only had 3 units of law during my sophomore year. thats it. and well, polsci which tackled the constitution.

I have a relative who is currently studying law. From what I gather it's very,very,very hard.

precisely my point for wanting to take a year of it here first. at least i wouldnt be overwhelmed by it if i pursue law in the states. and i wouldnt go haywire trying to figure out how to do this and that.

If you decide to enter law school here in the Philippines, it might be a good idea not to mention that you don't plan to finish law as this will lower the chances of them accepting you.

yeah, haha, i've already thought of this. thanks for mentioning it though. ;)

[atenean_blooded]

rather than getting a job, i'm aiming for NGO/community work which i believe would help me more. besides, a really good job? what does that mean anyway?

as for your stronger suggestion, sounds noble, but nah, i never dreamed of even attempting to fix the justice system here. i might just even be swayed to contribute to the already filthy system, whch of course i would never ever want to happen but is very likely to happen. sorry for being cynical, but can you blame me? haha

Well, "a really good job" is probably best defined by you.

I just find it funny that you're supposedly looking for NGO work to help you, but think that working long-term for the justice system is something that you seem set against.

I can also probably blame you, since I know where you were educated. And I know that you weren't educated for yourself.

This is me being disappointed. Blame me, if you will.

[greenDestiny]

Well, "a really good job" is probably best defined by you.

I just find it funny that you're supposedly looking for NGO work to help you, but think that working long-term for the justice system is something that you seem set against.

I can also probably blame you, since I know where you were educated. And I know that you weren't educated for yourself.

well, true, i wasnt educated for myself. however, my education doesnt also limit me to just trying to fix the justice system of this country. i have my options, if you will. and i think it'd be more worthwhile for me if i spend my time fixing or contributing to something that doesn't seem as hopeless as the justice system, not as filthy as that, and something that's personally more fulfilling for me.

[rabbaddal]

Working in an investment bank before entering law school is also an option. The workload between junior i-bankers and lawyers is similar so you'll get a taste of how much would be expected of you when you work for a firm. Also, the experience would be helpful should you decide to focus on securities law or M&A legal advisory after you finish your studies. Since bankers and lawyers do oversight on each other's work during a deal, you'll be exposed to the legal aspects of the deal such as disclosures, documentation, tax issues and other filings. And you get paid while doing it, instead of you having to pay for a year of tuition and books.

[archer_nemesis]

My suggestion is for GreenDestiny to honestly assess himself, his capabilities, drive, ambition, attitude (eg hard work), etc. How well did you perform in your undergrad? Did you graduate with honors? Are you good in memorization, debating, etc.? Do you have superior logic.

Let's be realistic. One may have the ambition, attitude, etc. --- but if you do not have the capabilities (i.e., raw material), your potential will be limited. There's nothing wrong with dreaming and having ambitions, but let's also try to be realistic. The legal profession in the USA is a very tough one. As someone already said, the supply greatly exceeds the demand.

palpakation na.]:rotflmao:

Another thing to consider -- In the legal profession, the ability to communicate is very important. If you're a Filipino with an accent, that, in itself, is a handicap, especially in the USA.

[rabbaddal]

The legal profession in the USA is a very tough one. As someone already said, the supply greatly exceeds the demand.

Another thing to consider -- In the legal profession, the ability to communicate is very important.


I am not sure if this is the case. There is actually a surging demand for lawyers here in the US. One area where lawyers are wanted is in the field of corporate compliance. The fact that corporate scandals keep popping up long after Enron attests to this need. Another source of demand is in the field of securities law and mergers / acquisitions legal advisory. As the Dubai ports controversy demonstrates, many corporate transactions (ex. cross-border M&A, international IPOs, leveraged financings, etc.) are becoming more complex, including the legal aspects of these transactions. Lawyers are needed to make sure that these transactions are carefully structured to prevent being contested.

Besides the growing demand, there is also a problem with supply. Fewer law school grads (as a percentage of total grads) seem to have the mettle to meet the new demands. Communication skills are easy to develop if one has the aptitude to enter a good US law school. It's the work ethic, professional / emotional strength, ability to handle stress and psychological strength that's getting hard to come by. Many bright law grads quit their jobs within the first 3 years after graduating because they couldn't hack it out after a while.

So for one aspiring to pursue a law career in the US, there are lots of opportunities, provided that person is ready to meet the demands.

[greenDestiny]

My suggestion is for GreenDestiny to honestly assess himself, his capabilities, drive, ambition, attitude (eg hard work), etc. How well did you perform in your undergrad? Did you graduate with honors? Are you good in memorization, debating, etc.? Do you have superior logic.

Another thing to consider -- In the legal profession, the ability to communicate is very important. If you're a Filipino with an accent, that, in itself, is a handicap, especially in the USA.

dont worry i am in the process of assessing myself. i think i meet the qualifications you mentioned above. well, except for debating and the graduating with honors part. for the former, because i have not debated yet. though if doing well in presentation during defense and the like would count, then i think i also meet that one. and for the latter, well, i believe it's quite an inappropriate and maybe unnecessary question. it helps if one graduates with honors but it doesnt necessarily have to be the case.

as for the accent, i dont think i have the accent or any of the hideous accents you were talking about. i know i sound pretty decent. so that shouldnt be a problem. haha.

[trauma]

There will never be an oversupply of lawyers in the US as they work in so many places and industry. Each company have their own lawyers plus government jobs are available. Most politicians and their staff are also lawyers. There's alot of bankers who are lawyers. Those with undergrad science degrees can go to IP law. The trial lawyers association is also one of the most powerful lobbyist in Congress so there are few legislations that will limit their positions. Medical malpractice lawyers are the ambulance chasers and they are also thriving (they even advertise on tv). There is also nothing wrong with being an immigration lawyer as a good one helps a lot of people with potential in a new country (the bad ones cost you time and money).

[leporidae]

Go directly to the US. Unlike in the philippines, US universities don't force you to do unnecessary subjects. This means that students there only study law related subjects. You would be missing out on the important foundational subjects of your degree.