Comic Books as Literature

[basho]

Ever read comics from DC Vertigo? Like Sandman, Books of Magic, etc? They promote deep thinking among readers and should be considered literature and just not mundane comic books. Neil Gaiman is already considered a top writer in literary circles, so I think his works in Vertigo should be noticed, too.

[batang uliran]

This comics as literature trend really started when Alan Moore's The Watchmen and Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns and at present, there are many comics that should be considered literature. In addition to the ones that you mentioned, you have Starman, Bone, Usagi Yojimbo, and others.

[Mikoid]

I've collected all the Sandman paperbacks, and I must say that they have a depth and complexity that rival "traditional literature".


I think Neil Gaiman's Midsummer Night's Dream issue (reprinted in the Dream Country compilation) won him a Hugo Award, the first comic book to ever win a major literary prize. That drew a certain amount of flak from purists who argued that comics were a different branch of fiction -- but hey, aren't they all just telling stories?

[basho]

Mikoid:

Have you read Neil Gaiman and Yo****aka Amano's "The Dream Hunters"? It isn't in comic form, but rather an illustrated hardcover book. If you remember, Amano is the creative arm behind the Final Fantasy series. Fantastico!

batang uliran:

Yeah, I remember Watchmen! Also, to add to your already great list: the manga versions of Akira and Ghost in the Shell, Hitler, and of course, RANMA!!(should be required reading) :)

[Mikoid]

Yup, I have a copy of the Dream Hunters, but it's still in my "pending" reading list.

The illustrations are exceptional, and it's a great collectible for any Gaiman fan. Once I read it, I'll offer feedback on the content.

[kingofpain]

This issue of whether a certain work or genre such as comic books should be considered as literature reminds me of a lesson in back in college. (kingofpain consults his old notes)

John Ellis' functionalist definition of literature likens it to weeds. Weeds are not a particular, scientific classification of plants, but simply any kind of plant that the gardener doesn't want. Similarly, literature is any sort of writing that a certain group or class values as such.

Thus, the presence of a dominant literature, a "canon", points to the reality that there is a dominant class which defines for everyone else what is literature and what is not. Pulp romances are not considered literature because the people who value them do not make up a powerful class. That's also the reason why there is a "gay" literature and "feminist" literature, instead of just calling the works simply as literature.

Comic books ARE literature because there are people like you who value them as such. The fact that it is not counted among other literary works just shows that the dominant literary class (perhaps the academe, the publishing industry, etc.) does not consider it as literature.

I must admit I'm a victim of the canonical mentality, too: I have yet to read any of those works cited here.

Can anyone lend me some comic books?

And, uh...sorry for the lecture. I may have gotten carried away...

[basho]

Interesting explanation, kingofpain. Maybe we should write to the different academic departments of various universities and request that certain comic books be allowed into the list of required reading. Sandman'll fit beautifully in any philosophy course.

With regards to the comic books, mine are hidden in the jungle that is my room. When I unearth some, sure, I'll lend em to you no problem.

[flyderman]

COMIC BOOK IS LITERATURE, NO CONTEST FOR ME.

I started loving comic books in a literary sort of way when I bought some cheap B&W Trident comics at a local supermarket Apparently the supermarket staff didn't know the value of these comics). I particularly loved "St. Swithin's Day" (it was the only one i remember so well, amidst the many great stories featured there). From then on I kept on waiting for Trident comics. Not sure why I couldn't find any anymore, too bad...

There is a comic titled "Wasted" (by Gerryy something) that was made by a Filipino and published here. The comic was the size of a Pugad Baboy comic (It was published by Alamat, I think). I loved it.

AND WHERE CAN I BUY SANDMAN COMICS!?! HELP!

:)

[The Rock]

Sandman comics are available in National Bookstore, Filbar's, and Comics and Then Some in Virra Mall. The Rock would advise buying in Filbar's because once you've become a member, trade paperbacks, graphic novels, and the like are a lot cheaper when discounted here than in other stores.

[§ínned™]

"...That's also the reason why there is a "gay" literature and "feminist" literature, instead of just calling the works simply as literature..."

It's like saying "British" literature instead of just calling a work by Percy Byshe Shelley simply as literature? I don't get it. But for the life of everybody, they are all literature.

§inned™

[Mister Dean]

Speaking of comic books as literature, I'd like to recommend, not really as a plug, but more of my being fairly impressed with this particular work, "The Mythology Class" by Arnold Arre. It's a locally-produced and penned work that has elements of Philippine folklore on a real-time plane. I enjoyed it for the sheer pop culture value, and I think that some of you will too. :)

[basho]

flyderman:

Sandman can also be bought at Powerbooks. If you're thinking of getting a paperback, I suggest buying the first installment: Preludes and Nocturnes.

[flyderman]

Then Preludes and Nocturnes it is. I'll go get it as soon as I get the chance. Thanks to you all!

[flyderman]

Hey people. let's try to keep this thread alive, shall we?

I went to Filbars and checked for Sandman comics. Wow, a whopping 1000 bucks! I could've bought a copy, except that they didn't have Preludes & Nocturnes yet, and there might be other stores that sell at cheaper prices. Or perhaps I should purchase the books at Amazon.com? Help...

Another help I need. Filbars has a sle comics section, right, so I browsed through the comics available. I was quite interested in the ff. titles (all DC-Vertigo comics):

1. The Dreaming (or something like that) series by Skaarsgard (I think) et. al.

2. The Books of Magic (not by Neil Gaiman but by Peter Gross)

3. Flinch (a horror anthology). Interesting artwork, from the comic's cover.

4. Love Street (3 parts). I think this is based from the Sandman series, although not by Gaiman.

5. The Lady Who Would Be Death (or something to that effect). Sandman's sister, isn't she? a 6-parter, if I remember correctly.

There are lots more but I couldn't remember the others. Does anyone ever read any of these mentioned, or know the titles? What would you recommend? Any other DC-Vertigo comics highly recommended? And how about Trident comics? Does anyone know where they can be found?

I'm sorry I ask a lot of questions. I'm just into these kinds of comics nowadays. :)

[batang uliran]

I have all the Books of Magic books and I highly recommend it.

[basho]

flyderman:

Yeah, the price can set anyone back. But Filbar's is kind of expensive: maybe you should try buying at National. I once saw Preludes and Nocturnes at National Greenhills for 600 pesos. I dunno if they still have it, but give it a try.

By the way, all the comic books you mentioned are A-1 terrific! Try out the Death paperback.

Batang Uliran:

Who accompanies Timothy into Titania's realm? I think it's in Book 1 of the Books of Magic. Mine was torn up by my little bro :(

all:

Just to comment, but it's mentioned in Sandman that Dream is to be feared more than Death. Any reactions?

[This message has been edited by basho (edited 04-18-2000).]

[Mikoid]

Basho: I think you have it the other way around -- or maybe I'm linking your statement about Dream and Death to the wrong excerpt. In Preludes and Nocturne's, Morpheus, before punishing Alexander Burgess for his brief imprisonment, told him that he was lucky that it wasn't Death he had captured but Dream instead.

In case it's the wrong reference, could you tell which book so we can have a nice Sandman discussion? :)

[basho]

mikoid:

In the first chapter of "Doll's House", Death wondered why people feared her and Dream said that he was more terrible than her. It was when dream went with death around "collecting" people.

[flyderman]

Chiefs,

You gotta check this site. It features a lot of good Gaiman books plus other DC/Vertigo stuff. And that's just the beginning. See for yourself:
http://www.holycow.com/dreaming/index.html

[flyderman]

Just stumbled into a Neil Gaiman story based on "The Matrix" (the movie). Great storytelling! Go to
http://www.whatisthematrix.com/cmp/neil_g.html

[JDELEON]

Flyderman: Wow, all I seem to stumble into on the internet is porno. Thanks for the site. It was beautiful.

Albeit not as lofty as Gaiman, there is something to be said of the literature in pedestrian, run-of-the mill comics as well. As a child I skipped Shakespeare and Shelley.

Damnit, I had X-Men. All the drama and action you could want. Plus! Jean Grey in an outfit that is literally painted on her. But more than that... By Jove! I think I was reading some literature.

When we think of literature or art, we automatically think of something exotic like Shakespeare. Well, in Shakespeare's day, I wouldn't be surprised if he was considered crass.

Please don't get me wrong, Shakespeare is literature; and Gaiman is literature as well. But a thousand years from now, people might consider Xerex Xaveria the 20th century Macbeth.

What will survive the test of time and circumstance?

We hope that its Gaiman, or at least X-Men (issue # 97-101)...

May Angels smile upon you,
Joe

[flyderman]

JDELEON: What's in issue #97-101? You got me curious there...

:)

[JDELEON]

Cult Classic: X-MEN vs. X-MEN!

The Armaggedon Saga. It culminates in the shuttle crash in which the Phoenix is born.

[planetary]

I suggest you try Powerbooks. They even have a 'graphic novels' section. Just ask around.

flyderman: I was looking at you old list of books you wanted to try it and personally I'm not at all impressed with them. With regards to "Books of Magic" try to find the trade paperback compilation written by Gaiman. You can also try Preacher and Hellblazer.


Just to go back to 'comics as litareature' I would beg to differ. i consider comics, graphic novels or whatever you would like to call them as a different medium. While maybe you can probably consider film screenplays as literature, a movie itself is different. Same goes for comics. It is more than just words on a page. There is an indispensable interplay of words and images. Some comics don't use written words at all.

The whole argument of 'comics as literature' seems to me as simply stemming from an effort to get them to be taken seriously.

[flyderman]

Just went to Powerbooks and WOW, they have a good number of graphic novels there! I actually bought 3 books:

1. Preludes & Nocturnes
2. Black Orchid (Gaiman)
3. Seven Miles A Second
(there goes my salary...)

Prices in Powerbooks are surprisingly and a lot lower than in Filbar's!

I'm dying to read them, but I still have to finish my Lord of the Flies book (which is another good book, but that's another story). Hmmm, what would I read first?

I even finished reading a whole graphic novel before I left! It's called "House of Secrets". Anyone read it already? It's an okay book, but not anything that would sweep your thoughts away. A good read anyway, in my opinion.

[Sheryl]

Yes, no arguments needed...COMICS ARE A FORM OF LITERATURE.

The Sandman being sold at Filbar's, Comic Quest, etc...are more expensive. 1000 bucks a copy is considerably cheap, some cost as much as 1800+.

You can buy cheaper copies at Powerbooks for only 699 pesos each series.

What are your favorite issues? I have to say Seasons of Mist, Brief Lives, Kindly Ones...I also liked Fables and Reflections but only on the story of Orpheus (Dream's son) and Eurydice.

Gaiman explicitly shows his fascination for Greek mythology, doesn't he?

[basho]

Haven't stopped by this topic in a loooong time. :)

[flyderman]

wecome back, basho :)

[Sheryl]

Comment on the ff Mcfarlane comic series pls:
a) The Crow
b) Spawn

[The Rock]

Can't really comment on McFarlane's comics, but The Rock can certainly comment on McFarlane's personality: He is a first-class stuck-up piece of trash! The most arrogant man in comics and he represents everything wrong with the comic book industry. http://www.pinoyexchange.com/grrr.gif

[planetary]

What IS happening to Spawn these days? It's been going on for so long with no end in sight. These creators who cash in on their characters without coming up with quality work in comics is %^&*ing me off. Look at the Wildstorm stuff as perfect examples.

[jean!e]

http://www.pinoyexchange.com/yummy.gif I AGREE. I used to think that SANDMAN was so childish kasi nga comic books pero after i read it, WOW. http://www.pinoyexchange.com/girl.gif the stuff i read there were even more deep than some of the stuff i read from my text books.

[snowcrash]

I'm a latecomer to this topic, but just in case the question wasn't answered.
Timothy is taken to the Land of Faerie by Dr. Fate.

And for my money, Alan Moore's Swamp Thing heralded the beginning of American comics beyond the airbrushed suits and stilted superhero language.

Of course, the Europeans and Japanese have been doing comics for adult imaginations for a long, long time. Milo Manara! Moebius!

[Noel Vera]

Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind is a great manga too.

Also, Art Spiegelman's Maus. Available in Flibar's, I think.

[basho]

If you want cool manga, try Hitler and the comic adaption of Akira.

With regards to Spawn, well, MacFarlane is all about money nowadays. But I remember when Spawn was cool. Those were the good old days. :)

Oh, for Neil Gaiman fans: the Sandman author recently translated the great epic anime, Princess Mononoke. Tre cool!

[Guhit]

I got my copy of Maus from Powerbooks Pasay Road. If some of you have missed my post on another thread, Maus is written and drawn by art spiegelman (he prefers lower casing his name), and it actually won a Pulitzer Prize, the first, and only one so far for comics. And they say comics is kids stuff?

Perhaps the single comic that can be considered to be undeniably literature, it's Alan Moore and Eddie Campbells gigantic retelling of Jack the Ripper's life "FROM HELL". I think you can get a copy at Comic Quest. It's a bit expensive, but man, each page is definitely worth it. Astoundingly detailed research incorporated into Alan Moore's interpretation of the facts. He shatters the "whodunnit" cliche by exposing who the Jack the Ripper is in the opening chapters (or at least his educated guess as of who it is), and spends the rest of the book delving into his life and thoughts. The most fantastic comic book reading that I have in years. I suggest you get it.

[flyderman]

Guhit: Just how much does "FROM HELL" cost? Seems interesting...

[Guhit]

How much is From Hell? Cover price is $35 so exact conversion would bring in something like 1575 pesos. But you know, in comic book stores like Comicquest (where it is available), it would be more expensive. Set me back a week or so of wages but damn was it worth it!

They're making a movie of this one you know? Directed by the Hughes Brothers (Dead Presidents) and starring Johnny Depp. I'm pretty sure it won't be anything like the comic.

[anKh]

'tis refreshing to see a lotta sandman believers on this forum. i'm infinitely nuts about it myself. my favs have gotta be: seasons of mist, ramadan, the orpheus & calliope stories ... shish, everything, really.

other stuff i love/d, whc you people might wanna chk out:

death: the high cost of living.
dawn <;joseph michael linsner>;.
the maxx #4 <;sarah's quiapo underpass experience>;.
mister punch.
arkham asylum <;mckean's artworks ruled in this one>;.
books of magic.
shadows fall <;mini series by john nay reiber, who also rocks>;.
crying freeman.
ranma 1/2.
hellshock <;at least, the first four that jae lee did>;.
umm what's this series by dan sweetman & jon j muth 'bout this huge dude who's an angel? the-something-ones. anyhow, anything drawn by jjmuth is well worth it.

...k, that's all i remember now. will surely post some more soon just 'coz i'm such a net junkie.

[zimdude]

... with Trip to Tagaytay (http://trip.to/tagaytay). Exploring alternative reality once more, he structures his late-21st century Philippines in a "cyberpunkish" yet laid-back fashion.

Dream. That's all I need to do.
...

I began writing and illustrating the book right after my girlfriend Cynthia left for Europe for a short vacation. Within those 20 days we were e-mailing each other constantly (I had enough courage to visit the malls to check my e-mail despite the recent bombings).

Aside from that uncomfortable experience of missing a loved one (which is actually one of the underlying themes in the book), there's also this sense of fascination in taking into account how small the planet has become where one can now receive letters, not in weeks or days, but in seconds. A far cry from the old mailing system which, with its new name 'snail mail', describes exactly that -- slow and primitive. All this, thanks to technology. And with the millenium fever still floating in my head then, I couldn't stop telling myself that overused line: The future is here.


Cynthia Bauzon (http://www.bauzon.ph/) is an award-winning graphic designer who is most known to me as the inlay designer of many of my favorite Filipino CD's (http://www.bauzon.ph/inlays.html).

[sadirmata]

how about pinoy comics and comics scriptwriters, di ba puwedeng pag-usapan dito? di ako masyado nagbasa o nagbabasa ng english comics like marvel, dc, etc. at ang sinusubaybayan ko lang noon (when i was in grade school and high school) ay mga pinoy comics magazine like Pilipino Komiks, Espesyal Komiks, Hiwaga Komiks, Pinoy Klasiks, Aliwan Komiks, Holiday Komiks, Shocker Komiks, Topstar Komiks, Tagalog Klasiks, Speed Komiks, Lovelife, Happy at maraming pang iba na publication noon ng Atlas, GASI, API at iba pa.

At maganda rin sanang pag-usapan ang mga pinoy comics writers and artists kagaya nila Tony Velasquez, Nemesio Caravana, Nestor Redondo, Fernando Coching, Mars Ravelo, Carlo Caparas, Elena Patron, Jim Fernandez, Nerissa Cabral, Gilda Olvidado, Vic Poblete, Mar Santana, Hal Santiago, Rod Santiago, Vic Catan, Al Cabral, Vincent Cua Jr. at marami pang iba.

[*happy*phantom*]

wow, sadirmata! you really are quite a wide reader! :)

[satellite]

in UP diliman....there's this new org called GRAIL or graphic arts in literature...it's all about comic books as lit...

[walangdila]

when i was a kid, i used to buy all the cheap fantasy pinoy comics.. poor lang kami e.. :D

now, i lost interest in comics, although i adore calvin and hobbes and pugad baboy.. neil gaiman's sandman series could be qualified as lit.. i guess..http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/net8/dazzler1.gif

:crazy:

[pinktikbalang]

I got a copy of Trip to Tagaytay. It is really good and pretty much worth it. If one looks at its website, one gets the feeling that it just be another Blade Runner/Transmetropolitan wannabe but it's not. Arre puts in his personal touch in the work.

I never got around finishing the whole Mythology CLass because it was way too expensive besides, now that I can afford it, issue number 1 is already out of print. oh, well.

I would also recommend FROM HELL by Alan Moore. It's some disturbing piece of s**t (in a good way.) I do not believe that the Hughes Brothers will be able to pull it off. It is way too complicated. It is not simple whodunit story. Moore really did research for this graphic novel. If anyone gets their hands on a copy, check out his annotations at the back of the book. It is overwhelming. But then again, Moore has his way of overwhelming his readers -- remember Watchmen?

Oh, and another thing, Frank Miller is doing a sequel to Dark Knight Returns. Just something worth waiting for.

That GRAIL org sounds interesting. Can you tell me more about them? There is also a course called Comicbook Writing in UP, under the Creative Writing course. And several teachers do include comic books in their syllabus especially Neil Gaiman's Sandman. So, in a way, the academe does acknowledge some comic books as literature.


Sadirmata,
mahilig ka sa local komiks? i have been wanting to get my hands on copies of old works by vincent kua. i have friends who are like number one fans of the guy and i have met him already but i am too embarrassed to admit that i never read his works before. he has quit komiks now and he is now working in abs-cbn as a scriptwriter.

another thing, meron ka rin bang lumang alfredo alcala? i found out early this year about his death and was saddened. he is considered to be a master in both local and american comics industry. he even did some batman comics early in his dc career.

yun lang

[Jacob]

Di ba may subject regarding comics sa CAL in UP? Naalala ko I want to take that e...

For all those who read Books Of Magic, don't you think binasa muna ito ni Rowling bago niya gawin ang Harry Potter series niya?

Another graphic novel that will be made into a movie is Road To Perdition. About a 30s Chicago gangster. It'll star Tom Hanks.

I've been eyeing From Hell for many years, hanggang sa nagka-baby ako. Ngayon mas lalo ko nang hindi mabibili. Waaaaah!

For me, comics is definitely literature. It is a storytelling device and when critics say comics is trash, isn't it the purely text books guilty of it?

Another thought: Comics are down after their height in 1992 to 1995, pero this may be the best thing that happened dahil mas may laman ang mga stories hindi puro porma tulad noong sikat si Rob Liefeld.

Yan muna.

[Jacob]

Originally posted by pinktikbalang

mahilig ka sa local komiks? i have been wanting to get my hands on copies of old works by vincent kua. i have friends who are like number one fans of the guy and i have met him already but i am too embarrassed to admit that i never read his works before. he has quit komiks now and he is now working in abs-cbn as a scriptwriter.



Sinundan ko din ang mga story ni Vincent Kua noong 80s. Sa Silangan and some other horror-themed komiks. OK ang mga storya niya. Sabihin mo idol ko rin siya.

[pinktikbalang]

:smokin:

jacob>>i took the class in up. masaya siya if one is really into comic books. teacher ko si emil flores and he had us read understanding comics by scott mccloud (which is unfortunately unavailable in local bookstores.) and first time kong mabasa yung dark knight returns, watchmen at maus dahil siya lang nag kilala kong may copy nung mga books na iyon. at kung makakakuha ka ng FROM HELL, i am telling you, kunin mo kahit mahal. it is definitely worth it. besides sulit naman, parang bibliya ang laki. :)idol mo rin si vincent kua? may kaibigan akong super number 1 fan siya. actually, vincent kua is a nice guy and is even eager to meet his fans. seryoso walang loko.

sinong nagsulat ng Road to Perdition?

i think, yung mga british writer are the ones who are keeping comics alive -- sina alan moore, neil gaiman, warren ellis and garth ennis (although i have yet to read him). it is just a bit sad that neil gaiman is not writing comics anymore. ang daming na-convert into reading comics again dahil sa kanya.

well, i guess, we also have to give credit sa mga filipino artists who are making waves in american comics tulad ni whilce portacio, jay anacleto and leinel yu.

oh and regarding books of magic, hindi naman offended si neil gaiman dahil sangkatutak ang similarities ng books of magic at harry potter. he said something that the books of magic is not the first book about a student magician and it is not going to be the last or something like that. but personally, i find books of magic more entertaining.

[Guhit]

Unfortunately, there is no comprehensive archiving of our local comics so it's very difficult to track down many of our own comics classics. I heard that a local company used to have a huge library where you can read right up to the original Darna stories by Mars Ravelo and Nestor Redondo, but since they moved, ewan ko na kung anong nangyari sa library nila.

It's really a shame. There has to be a way to reprint a lot of the great comics that came out during the past decades. I have many comics from the 60's bookbound with art from people like Alex Nino, Rudy Florese, Alfredo Alcala, Fred Carillo and so many more. And their artwork is terrific. It's really too bad that we will lose these works soon if some way to preserve them will be done.

The closest thing we have is that History of Pinoy Comics, which is really just the tip of the iceberg when it comics to Pinoy Comic Art. I'm still awaiting with bated breath, the Abe Ocampo penned book about the life and works of one of our greatest, Francisco Coching. That book ought to be fantastic.

Yes, and FROM HELL rocks. I have the individual issues, as well as the compilation. Alan Moore is a damned mutant.

[*happy*phantom*]

ATTENTION PUBLISHERS
I think there's a market here...


Originally posted by Guhit
Unfortunately, there is no comprehensive archiving of our local comics so it's very difficult to track down many of our own comics classics. I heard that a local company used to have a huge library where you can read right up to the original Darna stories by Mars Ravelo and Nestor Redondo, but since they moved, ewan ko na kung anong nangyari sa library nila.

It's really a shame. There has to be a way to reprint a lot of the great comics that came out during the past decades. I have many comics from the 60's bookbound with art from people like Alex Nino, Rudy Florese, Alfredo Alcala, Fred Carillo and so many more. And their artwork is terrific. It's really too bad that we will lose these works soon if some way to preserve them will be done.

The closest thing we have is that History of Pinoy Comics, which is really just the tip of the iceberg when it comics to Pinoy Comic Art. I'm still awaiting with bated breath, the Abe Ocampo penned book about the life and works of one of our greatest, Francisco Coching. That book ought to be fantastic.

[pinktikbalang]

on the contrary, the market for philippine komiks is diminishing. let me correct that, has diminished. and former publishers such as atlas and las islas publishing have moved on to more lucrative business such as glossy showbiz magazines and the like. komiks have been replaced by those cheap romance novels in the newstands. the only ones who probably keep old copies of the komiks are probably collectors and the artists themselves. we sort of had the same comic culture as japan wherein after reading a comic book we will simply throw it away. it is only in the America, where speculators and collectors keep their comics in hopes of selling them for a higher price in the future (and that lead to the downfall of american comics in the mid-nineties).

it is really sad that we only realize the value of our comic books when they and their creators are already gone. to come out with a collection of the works by redondo, alcala, niño, ravelo, even tony velasquez will indeed be a collector's item and a great contribution to philippine popular culture. the history of philippine komiks by cynthis roxas and joaquin arevalo was good but it now needs updating.

oh, and a little nestor redondo trivia -- he used to draw for gospel comics. :)

yun lang

[*happy*phantom*]

Originally posted by pinktikbalang

it is really sad that we only realize the value of our comic books when they and their creators are already gone. to come out with a collection of the works by redondo, alcala, niño, ravelo, even tony velasquez will indeed be a collector's item and a great contribution to philippine popular culture. the history of philippine komiks by cynthis roxas and joaquin arevalo was good but it now needs updating.

Precisely what I was implying. Why don't publishers print collector's editions? I think there is a market for it. I, for one, will secure my personal copy/copies. I'm sure a lot of Filipinos will support these collector's editions, so long as they're not that expensive. Maybe interested publishers can conduct a feasibility study and find out if this is a worthwhile business endeavor. Not to be too technical about it, but a feasibility study is necessary to ensure that one is not throwing his/her capital away. Still, my instincts point towards this being a good business opportunity.

[sheik]

Used to collect comic books myself back in high-school and elementary. Mostly popular titles from Marvel and DC. And iyes, i also think of them as Literature. Pero i only discovered the likes of Frank Miller, Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman later on as I decided to quit the hobby. liked the way Frank Miller handled both Batman and Daredevil (got Graphic Novels of both Batman Year One and Daredevil Love & War, Gang War) Neil Gaiman ending Sandman after 75 was the right decision. don't know much about local comics & Manga though. This is really an educational thread.

[batang uliran]

Where can I get a copy of the History of Pinoy Comics? And any other leads on where these old Redondo/Alcala etc. comic books exist? Or even the original drawings from these artists?

[pinktikbalang]

There are some copies of History of Pinoy Comics in National Bookstore. It is cheapest there. One can also fins copies of it at antiques shops like Old Manila but it is really pricey. The old komiks are virtually impossible to track down. One's best bet is to go directly to their publishers, but that is also an equally hard task to do. There are some original prints by Alcala on sale in the internet somewhere but those are his works when he was in the States.

[gasoline]

i think comic books are one of the best literatured ever invented..kahit minsan parepareho, minsan puro super heroes and all, kse halatang nahasa ang isip ng mga creators at illustrators, mahahalata pinagisipan mabuti at pinagbuhusan ng attention.

my frien'd currently doing this project together with his bestfriend, about a certain girl named Luna who rebelled , it is entitled Lunarage, ive read the plot and seen some of my friend's drawing, it's quite impressive and very promising, hope someone would help them to get it published.

---
:girl:

[Johnny Quantum]

Required reading:

Scott McCloud's UNDERSTAND COMICS can sometimes be found in comic book stores like Comic Quest and CATS(Greenhills). Also sometimes available is RE-INVENTING COMICS, McCloud's sequel to his book wherein he discusses the impact of the internet and technology on the comic book industry.

You might also find WILL EISNER'S SEQUENTIAL ART which is a great study of how a comic book tells a story.

THE HISTORY OF FILIPINO KOMIKS is available in National Bookstore.

ADULT COMICS is a British publication which I was lucky enough to find in Powerbooks. It talks about the history of "mature"/"adult" comic books (not porn). So there are little bits there about Gaiman and Moore and even manga.

Powerbooks has brought in more books about manga. Haven't been able to buy them, but they do have Fredrick Schodtt's (did I spell that right?) book about the history of manga.

Filipino artist Alfredo Alcala came out with a "how-to-draw" book but is only available in the US. You might be able to order it from Amazon. :)

[Guhit]

"Filipino artist Alfredo Alcala came out with a "how-to-draw" book but is only available in the US. You might be able to order it from Amazon."

Yep, I was able to get a copy from the man himself, Alfredo Alcala when I attended a comics convention in San Diego in 1997. "Secret Teachings of a Comic Book Master: The Art of Alfredo Alcala". A wonderful book. But difficult to come by now because it has since gone out of print. I heard that someone was interested in reprinting the book here in the Philippines but so far nothing has come out of it. It would be terrific though, to show this art to all the young aspiring artists here, whose only concept of comic art is japanese manga.

[TrueNorth]

Originally posted by *happy*phantom*
Originally posted by pinktikbalang

it is really sad that we only realize the value of our comic books when they and their creators are already gone. to come out with a collection of the works by redondo, alcala, niño, ravelo, even tony velasquez will indeed be a collector's item and a great contribution to philippine popular culture. the history of philippine komiks by cynthis roxas and joaquin arevalo was good but it now needs updating.

Precisely what I was implying. Why don't publishers print collector's editions? I think there is a market for it. I, for one, will secure my personal copy/copies. I'm sure a lot of Filipinos will support these collector's editions, so long as they're not that expensive. Maybe interested publishers can conduct a feasibility study and find out if this is a worthwhile business endeavor. Not to be too technical about it, but a feasibility study is necessary to ensure that one is not throwing his/her capital away. Still, my instincts point towards this being a good business opportunity.

believe me, some publishers have already thought about doing this and have actually done "studies". kaya lang, mahal pa rin to produce these editions (color separation pa lang might add up to P100,000+ for less than a 100 full-color pages). and unfortunately, there is only a small number of enthusiasts who'll be willing to buy collectors editions (baka wala pang 1,000 buyers). sayang talaga. maski sana yung foundations or cultural orgs can do something about this.
nakakalungkot that comics publishers, like someone posted earlier, have opted to do chismis magazines instead of the real deal. but its not their fault that their audience base has diminished. nanonood na lang ng sine o kaya pekeng vcd.
buti na lang arnold arre, the alamat guys and others still produce stuff, kahit b&w lang. it's still something to look forward to.

[Guhit]

1000 lang ang magigining interesado? I really believe that a lot more people would be interested. Why don't they take the chance and do it? I see so many expensive coffee table books about just every concievable subject, why not Filipino Comics? If such a book would cost 2000 pesos I would still buy it, as long as it's well produced. Having been in touch with so many foreigners who are simply desperate to own some of this stuff, this book's audience would include so much more than just Filipinos.

[TrueNorth]

Originally posted by Guhit
1000 lang ang magigining interesado? I really believe that a lot more people would be interested. Why don't they take the chance and do it? I see so many expensive coffee table books about just every concievable subject, why not Filipino Comics? If such a book would cost 2000 pesos I would still buy it, as long as it's well produced. Having been in touch with so many foreigners who are simply desperate to own some of this stuff, this book's audience would include so much more than just Filipinos.

of course a lot of people'd be interested. sad thing is, not all of them will be ABLE to buy 'em. publishers are siguristas; when they commit to produce something--esp. something big like a comics collectors edition--kailangang may makikita silang profit. right now, even if we say 'madaming' enthusiasts, we might just be talking about us, a small group.

[pinktikbalang]

another way of doing this compilation of old comic books is not to depend on the publishers to do the job. what we, comic book enthusiasts, can do is make it our own pet project. i have heard of NCCA giving out funds to do research and publications and all, so why don't we band together to get all the info ourselves? and local comic books are not only literature but also part of our heritage as well. where would we be without darna, zuma, kenkoy and dyesebel. while publishers would not be too keen on doing this project, cultural institutions may be a bit more receptive and they do not really care so much on making a profit but more on preserving our culture. or maybe even the comic book groups themselves like alamat, avalon, etc....

hey, guhit, you have copy of mr. alcala's book? pwede bang pa xerox or something? it is just frustrating when you know that certain book exists and you can't get it here. the ironic part is the subject of the book is filipino and you can't get the book in the philippines!!! (just like america is in the heart by carlos bulosan, you can only get a copy of it in the states. but that is another story.)

btw, guhit, why do i have that eerie feeling that i know you, at least heard of you? and probably even exchanged e-mails with you. hmmmmm.

[*happy*phantom*]

Originally posted by pinktikbalang
another way of doing this compilation of old comic books is not to depend on the publishers to do the job. what we, comic book enthusiasts, can do is make it our own pet project. i have heard of NCCA giving out funds to do research and publications and all, so why don't we band together to get all the info ourselves? and local comic books are not only literature but also part of our heritage as well. where would we be without darna, zuma, kenkoy and dyesebel. while publishers would not be too keen on doing this project, cultural institutions may be a bit more receptive and they do not really care so much on making a profit but more on preserving our culture. or maybe even the comic book groups themselves like alamat, avalon, etc....

You got an excellent idea! Why don't you try setting a meeting with local comic book enthusiasts and pursue this project?

[Guhit]

"btw, guhit, why do i have that eerie feeling that i know you, at least heard ofyou? and probably even exchanged e-mails with you. hmmmmm."

Maybe. I tried emailing you through this board, pero hindi pwede e. Check out my site na lang. Maybe we know each other.:)
http://alanguilan.com/sanpablo/

[TrueNorth]

that's a great idea--to band with enthusiasts and self-publish.
madam ring foundations/groups who can help, not only NCCA siguro. baka pwedeng lapitan ang ayala foundation, shell, metrobank, philip morris, etc.

heard that a small group is already working on a trade paper back featuring young fil. writers and artists. they're going to self-publish.

[Johnny Quantum]

Hello TrueNorth!

Any more news about that trade paperback project you were talking about?

Would love to know what they're up to and if they're accepting contributions.

[pinktikbalang]

the review of trip to tagaytay just came out at localvibe.com. you guys might want to check it out. after all, arnold arre seems to be the most prolific in terms of creating a new substantial local comic books. i have read trip to tagaytay and it's good and i just think that it's too bad arre didn't make a whole series out of it. anyway, if you're interested, follow the link: http://localvibe.com/Entertainment/012001/Tagaytay/

afterwards, tell me what you think.

[zimdude]

Just read the review - well I can't compare "Trip" to others since I don't generally read graphic novels and short stories anyway - but the originality is refreshing.

[pinktikbalang]

another review of trip to tagaytay came out.
wow! this arre guy is getting a lot of media mileage!
http://legmanila.com/ent/article/831.asp

[Johnny Quantum]

Did anyone get to read that Filipino graphic novel called HINAGAP? Came out early 1999. It was a full-color graphic novel set in Pre-Hispanic times, about a datu that must battle a tikbalang. Written in Tagalog, I found it difficult to read and didn't really get to finish the story.
I think there are still some copies sold in National and Powerbooks.

[Jacob]

When talking about comics as literature, this graphic novel (actually a collected mini-series) takes it literally: Alan Moore's LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN. It's sort of a Justice League set in Victorian England but the characters are from the literary world: The Invisible Man, Mia Harker of Dracula, Captain Nemo of 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea, Allan Quatermain, Sherlock Holmes, Dr. Jekkyl, etc. I just scanned the first issue and it looks very interesting. Filbar's ran out of copies and it's back-ordered in Amazon.com. Any leads on where can I find it?

[Guhit]

Damn, Jacob. That League of Extraordinary Gentlemen series was FANTASTIC. I don't know where you can get copies of it now, but it won't hurt to look around the stores. I found a Hardcover collection of it being auctioned at eAuctions.com last week and got it immediately.

[Johnny Quantum]

Have you guys seen the mini-exhibit of this new comic book from Alamat? Art from ONE NIGHT IN PURGATORY is now on display at Comic Quest or you can check out the website at:

http://www.alamat.com/purgatory/index.html



[Edited by *happy*phantom* on 02-17-2001 at 08:48 AM]

[pinktikbalang]

i just wanted to point out how the internet seems to have a positive effect on thriving comic book artists as well as on their fans. one of my favorite comic book site is scott mccloud's. it is good that people from alamat take the time to put up site for their recent works to create some sort of publicity.

i have just seen a recent work by scott mccloud entitled "the new adventures of abraham lincoln" and he used his computer in making the whole thing. the art really looks good. and the story focused on the relevance of history.

yun lang.

[Johnny Quantum]

In Scott McCloud's REINVENTING COMICS, he discusses how the Internet will change the way a comic book story is told. He said that what he's doing now it's even the tip of the proverbial iceberg... that online comics might look completely different, that it's still looking for that right format.

I'm sure my kids or grandkids will call me old-fashion if I insist to read comic books that I can hold and flip and fold. :)

[pinktikbalang]

a friend is recommending it. i haven't read it yet but i heard it has homosexual themes. that should be interesting. has anyone seen it?

[*happy*phantom*]

A link to Arnold Arre, creator of the Mythology Class and Trip to Tagaytay.

http://www.arnold-arre.com/

[Johnny Quantum]

Arnold Arre talks about Alamat and Batch72:

http://www.legmanila.com/feature/article/883.asp

[ChingCo]

ano ba ilalagay natin dito? hmmm ang dami na ha...

no question though that comics is indeed literature. aside from sandman and the others mentioned, i really think that you should read more of the new products those brits are coming out with. warren ellis' planetary is an example. pure fun book.

also there is little known book that i stumbled into - Human remains. i don't know if anybody has heard of it but it is poetic and shows a good balance between the written word and images....

hope it helped...

plus don't you think it's time to reboot or at least retool these classic filipino characters? i mean there is indeed a market for that here. imagine zuma being an urban legend-like character in the metropolis...

[Johnny Quantum]

To revamp our classic super-heroes... ahhh... now didn't that cross your mind every now and again?

A couple of years back, Atlas Komiks tried to revamp Darna by giving her bigger boobs and making her look like a character from Image Comics. It was even written in English. They eventually went back to writing it in Tagalog and went back to her old uniform. These days I don't see it anymore.

If characters like Darna, Zuma, and Panday were ever to be revamped, then it would have to be under the condition of having total creative freedom and hopefully, be able to spend more on production value (better paper, full color).

Who knows... it might happen soon. :)

[Manco]

One character that I would love to get my hands on is Zuma. I see a lot of potential in that character and if I were to write him, it would be somewhere along the line of TOMB OF DRACULA by Marv Wolfman and Gene Colan. He does not have to be in every story, but his presence is felt in each of them.

Another is Panday. It would be cool to make it a generational kind of thing. The sword passed from generation to generation, but now it's just a forgotten antique gathering dust in a big old trunk somewhere in the bodega of Flavio's descendant. And then something happens that the current wielder would have to...

Ahh... ideas.

[zimdude]

it would be great to have Panday swordfighting at a Crouching Tiger level.. ohh sorry talking about film there :)

[CaRaMBa]

Hey guys! Don't forget to tune in to The Hive 100.3FM on tuesday, from 6 to 8PM, for Speak Easy: PinoyExchange Live on the Hive! We'll be talking about comics! We're going to have PExers as guests, who are from Alamat. And we'll also have Ruey de Vera, also a PExer - he's an Ateneo Comm teacher, a Spirit Questor, and a comics fanatic! :)

[pexman]

Who was able to catch the show on The Hive last night about comics?

The show was too short, in my opinion. There could have been a whole lot more ground covered about comics. It would be nice if there could be a part II.

[Mokkori]

Sorry, but personally, I found the show to be a dissappointment. I don't usually listen to the radio so I dunno if the show proper was really supposed to begin at 7 instead of 6. But the bigger let down for me is that I felt the the show should've been longer. And to be quite honest, I didn't really hear anything new asides from what I already knew myself. The show itself was alright, though it wasn't what I was expecting. Just my opinion though... :|

[Manco]

I was only able to catch the last 30 minutes or so of the program, so did I miss a lot? Did the topic cover the whole program or just a part of it?

From what I was able to hear though, I agree with Mokkori. It was like listening to the same old song all over again. However, I hope that it was able to make some people interested in reading and/or doing comics.

[sextonfurnival]

i suppose i'll come into the discussion pretty late na, but what the hell...

comic is literarture, i agree, but i also think it's more than that. kasi it also incorporates the art, and the sequencing of the panels sa storytelling, which is quite similar, up to a point, to motion pictures and animation. so what does that make of comics?

furthermore, you can do a comic story completely without words, just the sequence of pictures. does that kind of narrative still fall under literature?


what do you think?



:goldfish:

[sextonfurnival]

btw, i'm trying to set-up a PEx comics club, for people who read and enjoy any sort of comics, or collect them, or make them. here's the thread (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=58878).



:goldfish:

[zimdude]

Even as there is a Comics Club thread, I'm posting this here since it's relevant to the Book Club. Trip to Tagaytay by Arnold Arre is our selection for November!

[Bostsip]

Trip to Tagaytay! (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=62713)

:up:

[zimdude]

Originally posted by Jacob
When talking about comics as literature, this graphic novel (actually a collected mini-series) takes it literally: Alan Moore's LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN. It's sort of a Justice League set in Victorian England but the characters are from the literary world: The Invisible Man, Mia Harker of Dracula, Captain Nemo of 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea, Allan Quatermain, Sherlock Holmes, Dr. Jekkyl, etc. I just scanned the first issue and it looks very interesting. Filbar's ran out of copies and it's back-ordered in Amazon.com. Any leads on where can I find it?


I just found about this, now that is's being made into a movie. Can anyone let me read? :D

[YoBaKs]

Hi Guys,

Just a short plug.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/brightsbooks/

Please click on the link if you're a "Graphic Novel Enthusiast." We would love to see you there.

:)