•••bad english skills kill?•••

[???§ÎNNëÐ???]

do filipinos really measure a person's intellectual capacity based on his/her english kills? you say bobo when you read: "with regards to..." or hear your officemate whining: "i didn't did it, why is this happening to me?" but when you hear a person say: "ayokong aalis dito hanggang hindi kita nakausap.." it sounds cute rather than a mere kabobohan.

Bodacious.
You better be.

[???§ÎNNëÐ???]

panginoon, nilalangaw ang thread na 'to! LOL!

Bodeceous.
Err...Bodacious! Yay!

[*~AzY~*]

hey sinned! sorry if nilangaw tong forum mo. hehehe. actually, what you said opened up my mind a bit. i have this thing of laughing at someone who commits an error while speaking in english. it's something that i inherited from my former school (well, more like my former classmates). usually, when a teacher mispronounces or go barok or something, the whole class starts buzzing and starts immitating our teacher. then, it struck me, i actually speak bad tagalog (sometimes). so what if ppl started saying that i'm bobo just cos i'm barok (sometimes) when i speak filipino?! of course, i wouldnt want that so next time, i'll try not to laugh at them anymore. la lang. naisip ko lang and para naman mag-smile ka na cos someone came here. :)

[harley quinn]

Sad but true. Sometimes we Filipinos are more unforgiving about grammar mistakes or pronunciation errors than the Americans themselves. It is foolish, though, if we ultimately judge a person's intelligence based on his command of the English language. Like it or not, even if English is the medium of instruction in our schools, it's a second, if not the third, language to the average Filipino. On the other hand, there are those who insist on using English to sound intelligent. ( Remember Tammy Z.?)

[will o' the wisp]

This is a thought-provoking thread. I never actually thought about the double standard before, but sadly, meron nga. Maybe it's 'cause I don't make fun of people when they make grammatical errors [or do I? hehe]. Seriously, I know I don't 'cause I know how mediocre my communication skills can sometimes get. Tulad nalang nung "with regardS to..", that's how I say it. :)

Hmmm...this thread brings to mind 'yung mga local singers na 'pag kumakanta ng Filipino eh umaarte ang dila, especially when they pronounce the letter "k"...nagiging "KH".

e.g. Pharang di kho yata khaya...

Naiirita ako 'pag nakakarinig ako ng ganun.

[???§ÎNNëÐ???]

thanks for responding!

*~AzY~* :
thanks ha! hehe. yeah just wondering why filipinos tend to laugh at kapwa filipinos when bad english is concerned.

harley quinn:
i agree that it's part of the filipino culture - being fluent in the english language makes one angat intellectually.

will o' the wisp:
me agrees, you feel you wanna phukphok your
head whenever you hear that kaartehan.

Bodacious.
Some language barriers.

[Ira]

Unfortunately, yes. Colonial mentality reels its ugly head again. We associate people who speak English well as those who are more educated (kasi galing sa exclusive schools most probably?), to be in the higher classes in society, and, unfortunately, to be more intelligent. Joseph Estrada is one prime example--this guy isn't stupid. He was able to become mayor, senator and president with his limited governing skills, di ba?--but we laugh at him and brand him as intellectually challenged because he seems to have a difficulty with English.

[krayola]

I get impressed when the I hear someone speak fluently in english but i think it depend if u talk sense, di ba. I know a lot of intelligent people who really talk sense pero hindi naman sila nakapag-aral and don't even know how to speak in english. Pero honestly, may edge nga talaga if u can express your thoughts well in english kse it's still the universal language. But while we're in the Philippines, dapat mas magaling muna tayo sa Filipino language so it shouldn't really matter much.

[-CRiMSoN-]

PePs: yes u may call me red (peeking over the other thread, hehehe). I guess it would be very hard for a non-English speaking highly intelligent scientist from China to get a job in one of Manila's Nuclear Power Plant, huh? I mentioned this coz one of the most gifted scientist in Stanford University Laboratory did not speak a word of English but US Govt. begged the Chinese to send him and America never let him go.

English being the language of the world (so it seems), I think Filipinos should be extremely proud that they have a good command of this language. And yes, in Filipino’s mindset, we insist on using this as a gauge for one’s intellect and even social status. Will this ever change? I doubt it!

Tagalog spoken in wrong grammar is again part of the Filipino society. The wackier the grammar, the cuter it sounds coz once again it somehow incorporates us into that member of “elite” society who rather speak in English than tagalog, their mother tongue. I’m pretty sure they can all speak in perfect tagalog perhaps even much better than in English.

Recently however, I believe the flow of conversation in Metro Manila has evolved to this ...

“masakit my tyan, tawag ko my mom so she can sundo me”

This, I heard from someone when I was visiting Philippines. For the life of me, I could not decipher if she’s talking in tagalog or another language. Of course, I had to ask my cousin to (slowly and discreetly) repeat exactly what she said.

I think if the whole sentence was spoken in either pure Tagalog or pure English, it would have been much easier to understand. The accent would have stayed in its respective place.


~*~*~*~*~
LaDy in ReD in an iNDiGo world

[ann]

i used to feel that way, too ... that the ability to communicate in fluent english/tagalog/whatever is a sign of intelligence ...

but in my line of work, i've met a lot of ppl who can't speak english well, if at all ... come to think of it, some of them must have been just too afraid to make mistakes that it took a lot of coaxing to get them to talk at all ... but know what? they made sense despite their "funny" way of saying things ...

form is one thing & it's very important ... but now i pay more attention to content ... still, it's a real treat when good ideas r expressed well ...

i think it's unfair to label anyone bobo for any reason ... as i've said in previous posts, i don't believe there r bobo ppl, only in the variety of experience & opportunity accorded by fate ...

i do, however, lose patience sometimes at ppl who think & feel smart & sosyal when using english [tapos alanganin naman 'yung grammar/pronunciation/enunciation/etc ->; like those in the noontime "beauty" contests or celebrity-interviewees] & can't help thinking, "tagalugin mo na kaya?" ...

[weye]

even if i'd like to deny this, i honestly can't help but grimmace when i hear taglish sentences that are completely absurd. with globalization headed our way, english has become a very important tool - not just in the corporate world but in our everyday lives. surfing the net, reading the daily newspaper & watching TV are but a few examples of activities that require basic knowledge of the language. now to be able to access more info would require a greater command of the english language.

like Ira said, it really must be colonial mentality. otherwise, we would probably be like japanese or chinese - people who are proud of their language and preserve it. but english has done wonders for our country as well. i guess the main issue is that we tend to overemphasize the relationship of speaking good english to a person's intelligence. not being able speak english with a twang isn't a big deal. what counts is that u are able to express what ur thoughts or ideas in the most concrete & clear (of couse there are other categories) way possible. that's what effective communication is all about.

[slurbrun]

Uy, nagsalita tuloy sa Ingles lahat ng tao! Pero totoo ang lahat ng nasabi/napansin ninyo, mayroong dalawang pamantayan nga na namamayani sa usaping lengguwahe. Bakit nga ba ang mga Hapon, di naman sila bihasa sa Ingles subalit maunlad pa rin sila ngayon? Pero pero (Filipino ba ito?) isa sa mga labas doon o etsapuwera sa usaping yan eh si Erap, IRA. Hindi ko maaaring matanggap iyan. NO! Ayan napa-Ingles tuloy ako. Ibig kong sabihin ay hindi. Masuwerte lang talaga siyang tao at marami ring Filipinong iisa ang pananaw -- na si Erap ang pag-asa ng mahirap. At dahil nga sa maraming mahirap, nananalo siya sa lahat ng kandidatura niya hanggang tumaas nang tumaas ang antas ng kaniyang pangarap na posisyon. Anyway, I digress. Ayan Ingles na naman! Base sa mga naisulat kong ito, tinitingnan ko rin kung tama ang mga salita ko sa Filipino (F daw kasi galing sa pangalan ni Haring Felipe ng Espanya). At aaminin kong maraming kamaliaan ang mga ito kung susuriin. Hindi ko lang matiyak kung mayroon pa ngang Filipino na matatas pang magsalita ng tamang wika natin sa kasalukuyan. Sabi nga ng nabasa ko, karamihan rin sa mga kabataang manunulat ngayon ay nagsusulat na ng Filipino ayon sa paggamit nila nito kapag sila'y nagsasalita.

Hanggang do'n na lamang po sapagkat masyado ko nang nabastos ang ating wika sa aking kasagutang ito. Ciao! Eek!

[Ira]

slurburn: LOL, I guess to each his own... I have talked with a lot of people close to Estrada and who know him personally, and they all agree that this guy is intelligent. Unfortunately, he favors the company of Johnny Walker, so minsan di talaga nakikita that he's really naturally intelligent. After all, there are different kinds of intelligence di ba? The intelligence I'm talking about is his ability to overcome his limitations and his undereducation to get the top position of the land.

[This message has been edited by Ira (edited 11-17-1999).]

[slurbrun]

IRA: Pls. let me say this. The Guy did not really exert any effort. He just happens to be there at the right time and place...and u have to admit, he's an artista and popular. He did not overcome any huge thing to get where he is. I'd rather not call Clout as Intelligence Ira. ANd what was the reason he wasn't able to graduate? Ooops, ang kilay ko, parang Nike na.*bites hands to keep off keyboard*

[???§ÎNNëÐ???]

now i believe that taglish should be our national language. lots of tagalog words are of spanish origin but since those spanish words have been absorbed by our language (some words even evolved and were changed in form and spelling) they should be considered as tagalog words too.

in our every day speech, you will notice that the tagalog-english mix is the most common language we speak.

pero, are you bobo nga if you are bad in the english department? kasi that's what the filipinos think - 'pag bobo ka sa english ibig sabihin non eh bobo ka nga.

Bodaceous.
No! Bodacious! YAY!

[MO]

i hate english and still do
teh subject!

[Cala]

ahhh... to resurrect a thread...

english (and any language at that) is a skill. thus, it does not have anything to do (directly, anyway) with a person's intellectual capabilities.

what irks me about people with bad english is when they speak it either to impress, or to look good (even when they so damn don't), or because they feel like it's the language of the upper class (so dapat asenso na sila kung marunong sila mag-ingles). yun ang nakakainis pakinggan.

i taught tutorial english classes to some high school students, and i can vouch that english is not an indicator of one's intelligence. of course, the more intelligent you are (or the more that you've developed your smarts), then the more likely it is for you to grasp the necessary 'lessons' to master the language. again, it's just like any skill. in a way, it's more about aptitude and not intelligence, combined with what you've been exposed to.

it does of course help tremendously to be skilled in english. admittedly, it is the most common language around that is being used, even in this country. out in the real world, you need to communicate to get ahead, and you must choose the language that will be understood.

it is also equally impressive to be skilled in your dialect. while taglish is evolving as some sort of material for interesting sociological study, i wish that some taglish speaking people making 'pa-cute' will just stop bastardizing the two languages. sometimes, it turns out to just be an inclination not to think.

[This message has been edited by Cala (edited 04-05-2000).]