Pursuing PhD

[Ice Burn]

Just a thought....

People have been asking me if I would pursue one even before I finished my Masters (and I just finished less than a month ago).

For me, when I have 3 years post master's work experience that's when I'll entertain the possibility.

What makes you think of pursuing a PhD aside from further studies?

[mac_bolan00]

congratulations on obtaining your MA. PhD studies has always been a frustration of mine. even though i never took units, i know enough people of those kind (relatives and friends).

first, never consider material returns when deciding to pursue doctoral studies. the only job assurance it could give you is one in the academe (and it's still not an absolute assurance).

second, PhD studies is nothing like you've expereinced beforehand. undergrad and even masteral studies is basically 'integral' studies. this means a specific focus on topic and topic source. think of it as reading several novels and absorbing each one to the extent desired for full appreciation. in PhD, on the other hand, you are called upon to cross boundaries. the term is 'syntopical reading'. as an example, let's say i were to require you to read the following authors within two years:

homer
aristotele
pliny
shakespeare
melville
dickens
darwin

now, supposing at the end of two years, i were to ask you to write a thesis on animals. i will then expect you to comment on man's basic dependence on animals. you might allude to the warriors' treatment of their animals during war (in the illiad, the odessy, richard the lionheart). then you will need to touch on peacetime and the economic impact of animals. mention whaling in 19th century new england as described in moby d|ck and the gradual shift from manual and animal-draft to machinery, as described in various novels by dickens. and then, you will be asked to explain basic faunal taxonomy beginning from aristotele and pliny, all the way to evolution as essayed by darwin.

[Ice Burn]

I didn't finish an MA...I finished an MPP :)

Is that the way the PhD dissertations are structured in the Philippines? I seem to get the impression that there's too much emphasis on theory less on practicality? Because it's quite different here in the US, or perhaps just in my field. According to the teachers and PhD students in my field whom spoke to, the emphasis for dissertations are actual interactive research connected to the PhD being pursued. Basically the focus is hands-on experience based on the topic selected aside of course from the prior studies that had been done.

There's only one PhD program that I'm interested in should I decide to pursue one...
Ph.D. in Public Policy and Social Science (http://www.fordschool.umich.edu/academics/phd.htm).
It's a combination of my undergraduate degree and my master's degree. :)

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Ice Burn

There's only one PhD program that I'm interested in should I decide to pursue one...
Ph.D. in Public Policy and Social Science (http://www.fordschool.umich.edu/academics/phd.htm).


Expect a long one from victory soon. This is his turf.:)

[Ice Burn]

Isn't Victory the MBA guy from Wharton? :)
It'll be good to hear his advice if he has a PhD especially if he has a PhD in the field I am interested in. :)

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Ice Burn
Isn't Victory the MBA guy from Wharton? :)
It'll be good to hear his advice if he has a PhD especially if he has a PhD in the field I am interested in. :)

Yup. He's currently finishing his Phd in Public Policy from UPenn after having completed his MBA.

[mac_bolan00]

Originally posted by Ice Burn
According to the teachers and PhD students in my field whom spoke to, the emphasis for dissertations are actual interactive research connected to the PhD being pursued. Basically the focus is hands-on experience based on the topic selected aside of course from the prior studies that had been done.

you're referring to the choice of topic for dissertation. i was talking about methods of study. :)

[Ice Burn]

well you were talking about topics, readings and thesis... :)

I did take a some electives where I had classmates pursuing their PhD's and I find the discussions, readings and term paper requirements focused towards the subject coupled with a more practical and hands-on approach.

[victory]

Originally posted by Ice Burn
I didn't finish an MA...I finished an MPP :)

Is that the way the PhD dissertations are structured in the Philippines? I seem to get the impression that there's too much emphasis on theory less on practicality? Because it's quite different here in the US, or perhaps just in my field. According to the teachers and PhD students in my field whom spoke to, the emphasis for dissertations are actual interactive research connected to the PhD being pursued. Basically the focus is hands-on experience based on the topic selected aside of course from the prior studies that had been done.

There's only one PhD program that I'm interested in should I decide to pursue one...
Ph.D. in Public Policy and Social Science (http://www.fordschool.umich.edu/academics/phd.htm).
It's a combination of my undergraduate degree and my master's degree. :)

We've corresponded about grad school options before, Ice Burn. The key issue is, just like your MPP, what you want to do after you complete your degree.

If a Ph.D. program is anywhere near worth your while it will emphasize both a mastery of theory and "practicality." You may well not end up writing a thesis based on an axiomatic approach to theory but you should select a school, department or program that provides you with as "full a bench of faculty" as possible, so that you learn from the very best in terms of both the theoretical underpinnings of your chosen field and how the tools and concepts are applied in practice.

Besides, what do you mean by "practical" anyway? If you write a thesis that focuses on empirical evaluations of policy measures ("what is the effect of statewide variation in abortion policy on future measures of juvenile crime?") then you better make sure you know your econometric theory like the back of your hand. Does "practical" mean the implications of your thesis might map into real-world policy measures? You would be surprised at how much theory and empirics you have to master before your ideas pass muster in the world of academia and policy.

It might do you well to remember this quote from Keynes:

“Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back.”

;)

So the key thing is for you to figure out what you want to do with your professional career and whether taking up a Ph.D. is in line with your plans and goals. What do you want to do and/or where do you want to work? Would taking up a Ph.D. be in line with these plans of yours?

I have always been personally interested in questions of development involving the worlds of the private and public sector and how they interact, and given my own background and self-assessment I thought it would be best for me to learn the tools to answer the questions in which I am interested in an academic setting. The academic and policy environment interests me more than working for a company in the private sector, although I've had fun putting up and running my own businesses and consulting for firms in different countries.

If you want to pursue a Ph.D., the most important criterion may well be which scholar you would like to have as your adviser. I hope your MPP has acquainted you with the scholars in your field whose work you admire: Where do they teach? Michigan has an interesting program but are the scholars you admire teaching there? There are some fine scholars there, including Rebecca Blank if you're interested in social policy, poverty and welfare reform issues, who currently serves as the Dean of the Ford School, but in which subfield does she teach? My own bias would be the economics and public policy track at the Ford School, but that's just me [check out Rebecca's CV and note that she got her BS (Minnesota) and Ph.D. (MIT) in economics].

Are you sure the scholars with whom you would like to work are not located in other schools? A Ph.D., after all, is a four to seven year investment of your time. You better make sure you self-select into a program or place that will really provide you with the best learning environment given your plans and goals.

And no matter how "practical" you may want your Ph.D. to be, given that you want to do public policy stuff, you will most probably still set aside your software for your first year or so and spend 60-70 hours a week learning multivariable calculus, linear algebra, real and complex analysis, topology, econometric theory and empirical methods, and microeconomic theory / game theory. Yes, you will pick up your pencil and prove theorems for hours and hours on end.

I sent you a PM. E-mail me if you have further questions or concerns.

Originally posted by rabbaddal

Yup. He's currently finishing his Phd in Public Policy from UPenn after having completed his MBA.

Ph.D. in economics, with dissertation committee members and co-authors at Wharton and Harvard. We do make a distinction. ;)

[victory]

Originally posted by mac_bolan00
you're referring to the choice of topic for dissertation. i was talking about methods of study. :)

I believe mac was trying to make an analogy.

As I tried to emphasize in my post above, if you take up a serious Ph.D. program, you will be required to master different approaches to answering questions in your chosen subfield -- and this requires an in-depth study of both theory and what you refer to as "practical stuff."

[Zeratul]

What about doing an MS - PhD in the Biological sciences? Hirap ba? What are the chances of a loser like me getting into a good US/EU University for my MS? Im just sitting it out teaching (aka bumming around) in the academe (a HS Science teacher who's taking MS units). Man, my undergraduate grades SUCK (C+ to B average mediocre) and I didn't do a thesis in my lower years coz we had the last year of the primitive curriculum.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Zeratul
What about doing an MS - PhD in the Biological sciences? Hirap ba? What are the chances of a loser like me getting into a good US/EU University for my MS?

In the case of a Phd, who your advisor/mentor will be is more important than which big name school offers the program. Unlike with MBA programs where students learn by collaborating w/ each other (hence an advantage for top-tier schools that tend to attract the smartest people from around the world), Phd learning is more confined with individual research under the guidance of a mentor. Once you've identified the field that you want to specialize in, find out who the leading scholars in the field are and where they are teaching.

[Zeratul]

What field did you do your MS in? Economics? AdMU ka rin ata dude. My plans of taking MS are still shelved. I still have to review my basic biology subjects (while teaching HS kids). They say that the best way for you to learn a subject is to teach it, and that is exactly what I am doing.

I just hope that they won't trap me here in education. At least teaching is more intellectually productive than a call center, although the call center perks are much juicier. Sometimes I get tempted to just sign up for CSR but teaching for me is more noble than servicing the needs of ignorant Americans.

[Braveheart]

Originally posted by Zeratul
Sometimes I get tempted to just sign up for CSR but teaching for me is more noble than servicing the needs of ignorant Americans.

sweeping generalization!

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Zeratul
What field did you do your MS in? Economics? AdMU ka rin ata dude. My plans of taking MS are still shelved. I still have to review my basic biology subjects (while teaching HS kids). They say that the best way for you to learn a subject is to teach it, and that is exactly what I am doing.

I just hope that they won't trap me here in education. At least teaching is more intellectually productive than a call center, although the call center perks are much juicier. Sometimes I get tempted to just sign up for CSR but teaching for me is more noble than servicing the needs of ignorant Americans.

I took my MBA (Finance) in CBS and BS ME in Ateneo. I take it you're planning to pursue an MS or Phd in biology. Is financing the only issue preventing you from taking your grad studies? A lot of the research grad programs in the US and UK offer grad/research assistanships where the school pays for your education while you help the faculty out in research/teaching work. Some grad students even sideline as private tutors or restaurant workers to earn extra money. However, depending on the school and program/department, grad/research assistanships can be offered only by the second semester but some give offers for first term incoming students as well. Some of my college friends were able to get MS assistanships in schools like San Jose State and UMinnesota at the application stage.

Are past grades important? Not necessarily. In fact you may have an advantage since you're a teacher, meaning you have a demonstrated skill and commitment to pass on what you know. victory & sophia amanda may be able to point out some areas where you can get funding for your first term, as well as how you can take advantage of your background as a teacher.

As for Phd studies, most Phd programs are fully funded so long as you're admitted into a program.

[Stampede]

Originally posted by Braveheart
sweeping generalization!
i think zeratul was referring to call center customers who probably call to complain/ask questions (ignorant is close) about something.

[jabonggs]

Ano po ba ang mas useful pag gusto ko pong magtrabaho sa ADB? PhD po ba o MBA?

[Zeratul]

ME kid ka pala Rabbadal! The FEW, the PROUD, the BEST. I take it your grades didn't suck like mine (C+ to B QPI). Laude kid ka siguro ng ME tulad ni Bam Aquino, Leo Tay, & Eric Franco so its no problem for you nerdies to get into grad school. With the reputation of ME as a cruel masochistic top-tier program, you have a hell of an edge.

As for now the elusive dream of a Ph.D. is just a fleeting fantasy for me. Balak ko sana GMU (George Mason University) pero siguro mag-bum pa ako sa HS turo then take MS units in AdMU & Diliman while sideline-sipsip sa projects ng mga prof ko hehe. I'm quite discouraged with what they say at Fullbright and Inter-Ed, so maybe I have to reap more credits in my chosen field before embarking on hardcore MS-Ph.D. study abroad.

Gudluk nalang sayo. Hope you pursue your Ph.D. eventually.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Zeratul
ME kid ka pala Rabbadal! The FEW, the PROUD, the BEST. I take it your grades didn't suck like mine (C+ to B QPI). Laude kid ka siguro ng ME tulad ni Bam Aquino, Leo Tay, & Eric Franco so its no problem for you nerdies to get into grad school. With the reputation of ME as a cruel masochistic top-tier program, you have a hell of an edge.

As for now the elusive dream of a Ph.D. is just a fleeting fantasy for me. Balak ko sana GMU (George Mason University) pero siguro mag-bum pa ako sa HS turo then take MS units in AdMU & Diliman while sideline-sipsip sa projects ng mga prof ko hehe. I'm quite discouraged with what they say at Fullbright and Inter-Ed, so maybe I have to reap more credits in my chosen field before embarking on hardcore MS-Ph.D. study abroad.

Gudluk nalang sayo. Hope you pursue your Ph.D. eventually.

Leo Tay (MS Mathematics in Germany) was a classmate of mine but unlike him, I didn't graduate w/ latin honors. BTW, try look at assistanships (RA/GA) that are offered directly by the program/dept you're applying to. These are not widely advertised bec. availability/budget is not consistent every year but at any given year, there could be a right program/school open for you. I'm not sure if you know Eena Sta. Maria, John Yap, and Paola Deles but they were able to get RA/GA positions in SJSU, UMinn, and Fordham respectively for their first semester a little over a year after they graduated college (and, like you, taught briefly in Ateneo). I am not sure how they found these positions though. Another friend was not able to get an RA/GA position for her first semester so she had to work part time as a private tutor to pay for her first term but was easily able to secure a GA slot for the second semester. Once you make it to the first semester of an MS/MA program, it is easier to get a GA/RA position for the second semester, but there is no cookie cutter approach to this. It depends on the program/school you're applying to and the timing of your application.

Taking MS credits in Ateneo and UP in the meantime may be a good idea, as well as doing sideline-sipsip projects w/ professors bec. it could boost your qualifications and credentials for GA/RA slots.

Re. scholarships (aka. Fulbright, etc.), Nat'l U of Sgp offers scholarships for ASEAN applicants while the ADB offers scholarships for member countries as well.

[sophia amanda]

I think there are at least three things one who is interested in doing a PhD should have: 1) boundless passion for one's field of study, 2) strong interest in doing research, and 3) solid preparation.

You can't survive, much less enjoy a PhD program unless you have a tremendous amount of passion for your discipline. Needless to say you have to know enough about your field to love it. Passion is what will carry you through long, really long, hours, of brain-crunching, self-confidence-testing work that will stretch you to the limits of your abilities. But it is also passion which will make it that much sweeter when you're able to solve a really difficult problem set or realize that your understanding of your field is truly deepening and that you are finally able to formulate questions and conduct research at your field's frontier. And passion will sustain your self-confidence and remind you that you would not have been admitted if you did not have the talent and that there simply are things that are worth struggling , even mightily at times, for.

You have to have a deep interest in doing research. Research is the coin of the realm. Apart from the fact that most PhD's go into the academe, research really is the comparative advantage of PhD's. The creation, development, and refinement of knowledge is what researchers do. The first 2 years of coursework are meant to immerse you as deeply as possible into the questions your discipline is currently asking and also to give you the tools to start asking your own questions and to try and answer them. In economics, even those who end up in government or intl financial institutions instead of the academe still do a lot of research. Why? Because it's what they were trained to do, it's what they do best.

You have to be prepared, though. At the very least, you need excellent preparation in order to be admitted to a good university. But more importantly, excellent preparation would maximize learning and somewhat minimize (not eliminate) the frustration and aggravation of keeping up with the rigour and pace of graduate school. In economics, as victory has already mentioned, preparation consists mainly of mathematics. If you are interested in economics, check out Simon and Blume's Mathematics for Economists -- the content there would be the bare minimum. Courses, taken with the Math department, in real analysis, differential equations, probability and measure theory, and functional analysis would form an excellent prepapration. Reading the bibles of 1st year economic theory -- Mas-Colell's Micro Theory and Stokey, Lucas, and Prescott's Recursive Methods in Economic Dynamics -- would be less of a bear if you have taken the above courses (an MS in Math would be ideal).

So if you believe you have these three things, give it a shot. We need more Filipinos to go into research, I think. There is funding out there. A lot will be demanded from you but the rewards are as great, if not greater.

[victory]

Then again, sophia amanda didn't exactly get "average" grades in College...

Zeratul, you will be fighting an uphill battle if you want to get into good Ph.D. programs, given your undergraduate records. You will probably not be able to leverage anything off your teaching experience either -- unless you take a Ph.D. in biology education or an Ed.D. in educational administration with an emphasis on the sciences. If it's a Ph.D. in the biological sciences you're after from a research university, your best bet will be to complete a masters program in the Philippines with straight A's (preferably two -- one in biology and one in mathematics or statistics), perfect your GREs [the general and either one of two subject tests (biochemistry, cell and molecular biology or the biology subject tests)], and perhaps publish a paper or two in local journals. And then try your luck and apply.

I hope you don't think I'm being mean: I just don't want to give you false hopes about your chances for admission into a research-heavy Ph.D. program. I will be more than happy if you prove me wrong and still get into a great Ph.D. program even if you do not end up not going through what I advocated above! But as sophia amanda has written, even if you get into a good program, your courses won't be a cakewalk. So it is in your best interest to prepare yourself as well as you can by considering the intermediate steps I outlined in the previous paragraph, as well as the many other concerns that rabbaddal brought up.

I apologize if I am not too optimistic or upbeat about your chances -- you're trying to get into an academic environment that's research-driven, where the yardstick used for admission depends on grades, and survival and success depends on research output. Is this what you really want to get into? Or maybe you want to consider higher studies in education that's more teaching-driven instead?

I hope this helps.


Originally posted by Zeratul

As for now the elusive dream of a Ph.D. is just a fleeting fantasy for me. Balak ko sana GMU (George Mason University) pero siguro mag-bum pa ako sa HS turo then take MS units in AdMU & Diliman while sideline-sipsip sa projects ng mga prof ko hehe. I'm quite discouraged with what they say at Fullbright and Inter-Ed, so maybe I have to reap more credits in my chosen field before embarking on hardcore MS-Ph.D. study abroad.

Precisely.

[dalawa_puso_ko]

Here's my own take. If you want the degree that badly and you have the resources for it, study in the US (any school that'll take you in). In UP, guys I know, very bright guys, have problems finishing their MAs and PhDs. Something about lack of teachers, lack of relevant subjects, and poor topic choices.

In contrast, so-so guys go to the US and come back in exactly three years with shining PhDs ---from so-called 'Ivy league' schools! Can someone explain this?

[Mateen Cleaves]

They may have been "so-so" when they left, but if, as you say, they finished in 3 years from Ivy League schools ... I doubt that they remained so...uhm... "so-so" for long. ;)

[Mateen Cleaves]

Originally posted by victory
Zeratul, you will be fighting an uphill battle if you want to get into good Ph.D. programs, given your undergraduate records. You will probably not be able to leverage anything off your teaching experience either -- unless you take a Ph.D. in biology education or an Ed.D. in educational administration with an emphasis on the sciences. If it's a Ph.D. in the biological sciences you're after from a research university, your best bet will be to complete a masters program in the Philippines with straight A's (preferably two -- one in biology and one in mathematics or statistics), perfect your GREs [the general and either one of two subject tests (biochemistry, cell and molecular biology or the biology subject tests)], and perhaps publish a paper or two in local journals. And then try your luck and apply.
[/B]

Agree. Good performance in your masters program can help sanitize your undergraduate record. You can also use this time to really think about the kind of research you want to be doing -- for your future career, not just for your Ph.D! That said, I think that beefing up your research portfolio -- working with your advisers, co-authoring articles with them, publishing locally -- would do that much more for you than a prettified transcript.

Sorry, to burst bubbles, but many departments in the US know very little about the quality of education in the Philippines so nice grades might not mean as much to them. Sure, you can argue that UP, Ateneo, La Salle, etc. are known quantities even in Ivy League schools. But that brings me to my second point. You may want to think strategically and set more realistic goals for yourself in terms of where you want to go.

Top tier bio programs might be extremely long shots for you. But if you investigate some of the smaller, less known programs in your field, you will probably be able to find an excellent researcher/adviser to fit your agenda. My wife got her Ph.D. from a university that US News classifies as a "regional" university, but her adviser turned out to be one of the top names in her particular area of interest. And probably because it was a smaller program, she got all the mentoring and guidance she needed not only from her adviser, but most of the other faculty as well.

BTW, is there a particular reason why you're set on GMU?

[Zeratul]

Thank you rabbadal, victory, and Mateen Cleaves for your insightful advice! (Even if some of it hurts!)

Yep I guess I have to beef up my graduate studies, co-author papers, work on projects and continue teaching to earn my keep. I'm planning to take my MS Biology in Ateneo (they give me a discount versus UP and its in one campus where I teach) to focus on the general aspects first then take microbiology courses in Diliman then that is the time I will ponder on the GREs.

So you mean if my grades sucked in undergrad, I still have a fighting chance to get into a good Ph.D. program in the US (through doing an MS program in the US first) by sanitizing my CV here? I like the term you use - "sanitize" is very apt for my condition. I don't even dream of Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Hopkins, and the like coz I even skipped them when looking at the grad school directories! Maybe state universities and Jesuit schools with renowned faculty & hermit-like Nobel Laureates may be more to my liking.

There was this dude here named R3'91 who posted in a similar forum. He had 5 FAILURES in UPD (limang 5.00) and he still managed to get into a MS Human Ecology program in Holland. Man dats the real spirit I'm talking about! What he's saying is that if my grades are better than his, I should just channel my resolve to a particular end and work all ends toward it. Easier said than done, however.

FYI i chose GMU in Virginia coz they got this unique program - Certificate / MS / PhD Microbial Biodefense - the one and only in the US as of now. Sort of a hybrid b/w applied microbiology and political science. Their grad school general acceptance rate is listed 59% as of 2003 and I think I may stand a chance after beefing up my CV and acing the GREs (hopefully).

BTW, what field do you & your wife specialize in? How were your college grades if I may ask? Promil kid ka siguro ng UPD so you had no problem in looking for a good program.

[victory]

Originally posted by Zeratul
Thank you rabbadal, victory, and Mateen Cleaves for your insightful advice! (Even if some of it hurts!)

FYI i chose GMU in Virginia coz they got this unique program - Certificate / MS / PhD Microbial Biodefense - the one and only in the US as of now. Sort of a hybrid b/w applied microbiology and political science. Their grad school general acceptance rate is listed 59% as of 2003 and I think I may stand a chance after beefing up my CV and acing the GREs (hopefully).


Best wishes to you and your endeavors, Zeratul! Yes, think and plan carefully for your graduate studies. 59% acceptance rate! That's "comforting" indeed: In my particular field/school the acceptance rate is 3-4%.

Take things step by step and do your best!

[pale_pilsen]

Originally posted by dalawa_puso_ko
If you want the degree that badly and you have the resources for it, study in the US (any school that'll take you in).

i don't think going to a rinky-dink school is worth the time and effort. be a bit (but not too) selective in applying

[Ischaramoochie]

anybody here who has a PhD in Philosophy, please raise their hands...

[mrbig]

originally posted by rabbaddal:
"I took my MBA (Finance) in CSB and BS ME in Ateneo."

Rab, when you say CSB, is that College of Saint Benilde? Or is it Columbia School of Business? Please clarify (hehehe, couldn't help but take a shot at you dude).

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by mrbig
originally posted by rabbaddal:
"I took my MBA (Finance) in CSB and BS ME in Ateneo."

Rab, when you say CSB, is that College of Saint Benilde? Or is it Columbia School of Business? Please clarify (hehehe, couldn't help but take a shot at you dude).

CSB. I believe it's Bro. Rolly's secret graduate program.:)

[Zeratul]

Tol siguro naman Columbia kid si rabbadal. Hello! Ateneo ME siya kukuha ng Finance sa Benilde? BTW the Finance programs are in DLSU main (CFA Review) and not in Benilde. ME boys are a bunch of crazy masochists who want to disintegrate their mind with integrals in college with the hopes of landing a coveted VP position in a multinational bank by the time they hit 28.

With all those insane math subjects, I don't think rabbadal would even consider Benilde (unless he wants to become a chef, deaf teacher, or diplomat). To keep up with his business expansion, maybe Angelo King will offer a new CSB course - Motel Drive-In Administration. He might pirate the ME boys to maximize profits with their ideas on graph theory and operations research.

[rabbaddal]

Originally posted by Zeratul
Tol siguro naman Columbia kid si rabbadal. Hello! Ateneo ME siya kukuha ng Finance sa Benilde? BTW the Finance programs are in DLSU main (CFA Review) and not in Benilde. ME boys are a bunch of crazy masochists who want to disintegrate their mind with integrals in college with the hopes of landing a coveted VP position in a multinational bank by the time they hit 28.

With all those insane math subjects, I don't think rabbadal would even consider Benilde (unless he wants to become a chef, deaf teacher, or diplomat). To keep up with his business expansion, maybe Angelo King will offer a new CSB course - Motel Drive-In Administration. He might pirate the ME boys to maximize profits with their ideas on graph theory and operations research.

Some people are very happy to become chefs, designers, and what have you. CSB is well positioned to cater to these non- traditional interests. Why should some people waste a short life preparing pitch books and valuations when it makes them miserable?:)

[Mateen Cleaves]

Originally posted by Zeratul
BTW, what field do you & your wife specialize in? How were your college grades if I may ask? Promil kid ka siguro ng UPD so you had no problem in looking for a good program.

I have a Ph.D. in Parks and Recreation, a definite non-traditional field for Filipinos. My much-better half has a Ph.D. in Org Psych.

We didn't graduate with honors from UP, if that's what you were asking. Though our grades weren't too shabby -- around the 1.8 - 1.9 range -- I didn't think they were THAT impressive either. Our standardized test scores were... competitive. However, given that we both chose to specialize in applied fields, I think that our professional credentials (UP faculty, industry experience prior to the academe, consulting/research projects) were what really gave us the edge with our respective departments.

You must realize that at the Ph.D. level, departments are not just looking for students. They're also looking for potential colleagues. People to work with in the lab, in the field, or in the office. Thus, they want to see what you can contribute to the department's work in terms of research skills (methods and statistics), writing skills, or what have you. This is where sophia amanda's "preparation" will come in mighty handy!:)

[Stampede]

off topic...

let me guess, you got your PhD at Michigan State U?

carry on...

[Mateen Cleaves]

That obvious, huh? ;)