An apartment of my own in 4 years

[NoisyCricket]

Speaking of business and careers, I guess a part of that is eventually being able to support yourself and your family. College grads and teenagers have no idea of what that's like, and will dread thinking about those things until the time comes, but I think I'm arriving at that point in time where those are beginning to sink in.

I'm thinking of buying an apartment in Libertad, Mandaluyong, walking distance from edsa, for P1.7MM, 30% down, and the rest of the 70% payable at 0% interest over the next 24 or 36 months. 2 storey apartment, 58 sq. meters. Will have a community area, swimming pool, and parking facilities.

What do you guys think? That should be worth P5MM 4 years from now when the project is completed. But by then, no more units will be available. A lot of the units are already pre-sold.

What do you think? (Calling Kuya Danny!)

[KuyaDanny]

Noisy Cricket, if you are even considering eventually getting married and settling down, allow me, at this early stage, to congratulate whoever it is who'll end up being your wife. Yes, ladies, there are plenty of sh*tty guys out there, but I don't think this gentleman is one of them. ;)

But, to address the issues at hand:

1) Yes, it is a good idea to buy a home if you can afford to, and now is a good a time as any to do so because of the potential bargains that can be had. Real estate prices are at comfortable lows compared to three or four years ago.

2) We have been burned several times in the past few years because we bought property that was pre-sold. For those of you unfamiliar with the term, pre-selling refers to the practice of selling a building, house, or similar structure, before that structure is completed, or even started. Now my personal bias is to actually see, touch, and smell the property I'm buying before paying the first peso. But that's me, and sometimes I can be a real jerk. ;)

The properties we bought either ended up being disappointing (quality, appearance, etc not as expected), delivered after the promised deadlines, or stopped before completion. Of course, the economic crisis after 1997 had a lot to do with that, but I think we're still in the middle of it now.

So if you're really interested in the property, check, double check, and check several times over the credentials of the company developing the project. Pre-selling is not always a bad thing (it tends to bring down the price of the proerty you're buying), but to make it successful one needs a solid company to back up the promises being made.

[This message has been edited by KuyaDanny (edited 09-17-2000).]

[batang uliran]

I agree with KD. In these tough economic times, virtually all real estate developers are in trouble and there is a good chance this project will have one of these three outcomes:

1. not be completed at all.

2. be completed but unit disappointing.

3. completed and physically turned over but title still with the bank because the contractor hasn't been able to keep up with loan payments.

My advice is aside from Ayala Land (whose projects are usually prohibitively priced aside from the ones done by their subsidiary Laguna Property Holdings Inc) there is just NO other developer I would trust enough to prebuy like this. Like KD, my family has 2 smaller one bedroom units whose titles we have still not gotten YEARS after the project has been completed because the developer couldn't pay the bank.

[aticus]

I spoke with Cricket just an hour or two ago, and I spoke of my concerns. For the benefit of everyone else, I'm posting them here:

a) I wholeheartedly agree with Kuya Danny. I have NEVER heard of a project that delivered on its initial promise. Marketers are there to sell a product as it is envisioned, not necessarily as it will be delivered.

b) It really is best to be prudent when making financial decisions in excess of five figures. There will always be other condos (and since this promises to be done in 4 years, I'm expecting it to be finished in 5 or 6) but money is MUCH harder to come by. Why not wait and check the company out?

c) There's much to be said about saving your money or putting it in a solid, income-generating device, like mutual funds. If you're not averse to a little risk, putting it in some solid overseas investments would be good too. The 5 million probable worth of the condo depends on a lot of factors: being able to sell it, the market being up, people having money, the project being completed, the quality of the finished product, etc. It may not be worth what you think it will be worth in the end.

Just think about it a bit more. There's really no rush. And if you truly care about your future family, I'm sure you'd accept that being fiscally prudent is one of the best things you can do for them. Good luck Cricket! :)

[makiling]

Totally agree with the remarks above. At this point be very careful with pre sold units. Several well known developers got into trouble due to the asian crisis.

I have a condo of my own but I did not buy it during the pre selling period. I got it when the title was made. The condo was built by a very reputable company who unfortunately got into trouble during the crisis.

Since I work in a financial institution I am very careful when it comes stuff like real estate. I would agree to one posting here which said that you will not go wrong with any Ayala undertaking. This is true.

Who is your developer? I could ask around if that is ok or if you would rather shop around for other real estate investment.

If you look at the classified ads, there are lots of units for sale at a bargain. It is safer to have the title on hand and see for yourself the quality of materials used in the building.

[NoisyCricket]

Originally posted by KuyaDanny:
Noisy Cricket, if you are even considering eventually getting married and settling down, allow me, at this early stage, to congratulate whoever it is who'll end up being your wife. Yes, ladies, there are plenty of sh*tty guys out there, but I don't think this gentleman is one of them. ;)


Dear Kuya Danny,

Thank you. I sent you a personal e-mail at your dannyj@music.com address. Hope you receive it. I'm speechless. Wow. Thanks for your advice. It means a lot to me.

If you ever need anything, and you think I can help, let me know, say the word, and I'll do what I can to help. ;)

Best Regards,

Noisy Cricket

[NoisyCricket]

Originally posted by makiling:
Totally agree with the remarks above. At this point be very careful with pre sold units. Several well known developers got into trouble due to the asian crisis.

I have a condo of my own but I did not buy it during the pre selling period. I got it when the title was made. The condo was built by a very reputable company who unfortunately got into trouble during the crisis.

Yeah, I've been doing a lot of thinking lately, and with a little help from my friends, I guess I think I should be more wary of dealing in the 6 figure deals.

Regarding the part about the selling and the preselling price. I know, for example, that friends of mine invested in a pre-sold condominium unit in Greenbelt, at the heart of Makati (another factor to consider, but the comparison can still be made). The unit was worth P1.7M I believe, and now, the same unit is worth anywhere from P7-10M. Aside from buying the unit at a greatly discounted price, they now have a home in the Makati Business district. :) So I guess they worked that out pretty well.

The company wasn't an Ayala, or any of the big real estate empires, but it had vision, and it had integrity. In so doing, they were able to deliver as promised.

Who is your developer? I could ask around if that is ok or if you would rather shop around for other real estate investment.


Please do. Actually, the company is Empire East, and the project is located just a stone's throw (or two) away from Edsa-Shaw. It's on Libertad street, the street just a little after Shaw Blvd coming from the North, turning right at the public market, just before the hospital. You have to take the overpass and not go through the usual tunnel to get to Makati.

I would be very interested to know more about the company, since the location seems well enough. True, like a friend says, if I were a millionaire, I wouldn't live in Libertad, I'd look for other places, but nonetheless, you can, today, already take the MRT to Glorietta, Buendia, Shangri-La, Megamall, and other places.

In four years time, the Cubao-Aurora-Katipunan MRT would hopefully have been constructed as well, and be fully-operational. There's your ticket to school, as well as your ticket to work.

If you look at the classified ads, there are lots of units for sale at a bargain. It is safer to have the title on hand and see for yourself the quality of materials used in the building.


That is true. It would be foolish to buy something at a price when one hasn't even looked at the other places.

Other things to consider that my friends have pointed out:

1. There are no currently existing structures at the moment, and the company is telling you that it can build 14 towers in a span of four(4) years. Just doing the math alone in terms of # of workers that you will need to put up such a project is enormous.

2. The company says that it has already completely pre-sold the first 13 towers. How was that possible? You have no structures up yet, and still you manage to pre-sell all 13 towers. They must have one heck of a marketing team. Friend said that "pre-sold" may mean that sister companies may own the said units.

3. In whose name of the titles. Yup. Another factor to consider. If the title will only be transferred to you in 4 or 5 years time, and the project cannot be completed, you will find it difficult to retrieve your investment.

Well to end this very lengthy post, I would like to say that

(a) driving home from Makati, passing by the site, I could almost imagine myself going home to the place (inspite of the seeming impossibility of being able to complete 14 towers in a span of 4 years),

(b) know that I have to think ahead in terms of what my future is going to be like. (Can't live with parents forever.)

and that

(c) I am somehow convinced that any piece of property that I purchase in the future must be concluded far before I actually need it. To be looking for a commodity that you need exactly when you need it, can sometimes be an impossible task. Especially if you're talking about land. Things are not as simple as they used to be, and the days of "Far and Away" (Tom Cruise & Nicole Kidman) are ancient history.

I don't know what the future holds, but as J.K. Rowling says in Harry Potter IV, "What will come, will come. There is no point in fearing it." ;)

[makiling]

Noisy Cricket:

oh wow! what a long post! :) i saved the page and sent it to my office email addy so that i will remember to check it out.


Kuya Danny:

music.com ka pala :) funded by iayala :) do u own it?

[KuyaDanny]

Originally posted by makiling:
Kuya Danny:

music.com ka pala :) funded by iayala :) do u own it?

No. I'm not that rich. I'm only using their free email service. :)

[NoisyCricket]

Originally posted by makiling:
Noisy Cricket:
oh wow! what a long post! :) i saved the page and sent it to my office email addy so that i will remember to check it out.


hey thanks!


Kuya Danny:

music.com ka pala :) funded by iayala :) do u own it?

huwag kang maniwala.. mayaman siguro si Kuya Danny.. hehehe! :D

[makiling]

No. I'm not that rich. I'm only using their free email service. :)
[/QUOTE]

oh not 'that rich' pero rich :) sabi ni noisy cricket wag ako maniwala eh :) hmmm i will find out...... ;)

[*happy*phantom*]

Thanks, I learned so much from this thread. I was also interested in the same property Noisy Cricket is talking about.

Their brochure is quite impressive and the artist's impression of the property looks really good but of course, there's no guarantee that the unit will look as such once it is completed.

[batang uliran]

I think you should stay liquid. There is a glut in condos right now and you shouldn't have difficulty getting a good deal for the next few years. In fact, as more and more buildings get completed (and sales are unlikely to pick up) you may get a better deal in the future.

Empire East is the low cost developer of the Megaworld group. Like everyone else, Megaworld is experiencing cash flow problems - in fact Empire East (anyone correct me if I am wrong here) just completed a dacion en pago to reduce their debt. Even C&P Homes which was once flying high is now on the verge of folding.

[NoisyCricket]

Originally posted by batang uliran:
Empire East is the low cost developer of the Megaworld group. Like everyone else, Megaworld is experiencing cash flow problems - in fact Empire East (anyone correct me if I am wrong here) just completed a dacion en pago to reduce their debt. Even C&P Homes which was once flying high is now on the verge of folding.

dacion en pago.. I remember hearing that somewhere.. that's when you have to relinquish ownership of land to pay off a debt?

[batang uliran]

Yes, dacion is when a real estate company unable to service their debt comes to an agreement with the creditor/bank wherein property is turned over to the bank in exchange for retirement of a portion or all of the debt depending upon the agreed on valuation of the land. Banks generally do not want to take on illiquid assets like land but they sometimes agree because the alternative may be a moratorium of debt payments and that's bad for both the real estate company and the bank.

As you may have inferred by now, this is something real estate companies resort to in order to stay afloat. It is a definite sign that the company is in financial distress.

[NoisyCricket]

hey happy phantom! keep me posted on real estate leads, please! I heard there's good property daw in Libis sa eastwood. And it's not 4 years.. it's 2 years.. although more expensive..

although I heard management wasn't too good. *bummer*

[DELISYUS]

inggit naman ako ke Nosiy Cricket....samantalang ako, room for rent lang nde ko pa kaya.... :(

p're....good luck!!! :)

[NoisyCricket]

Originally posted by DELISYUS:
inggit naman ako ke Nosiy Cricket....samantalang ako, room for rent lang nde ko pa kaya.... :(

p're....good luck!!! :)

yan tuloy.. na-guilty na ako! hehehe.. tenks sa good luck anyway!

balang araw yayaman din tayong lahat.. hehehe!

[*happy*phantom*]

Originally posted by Noisy Cricket:
hey happy phantom! keep me posted on real estate leads, please! I heard there's good property daw in Libis sa eastwood. And it's not 4 years.. it's 2 years.. although more expensive..

although I heard management wasn't too good. *bummer*

poor management? naku, red alert :)

I'll notify you if I find better deals. Maybe we should look into the Ayala offerings. Baka mayroon naman na fit sa budget.

[batang uliran]

For those of you PEx oldtimers, Aragorn, one of our former mods, is working in marketing at ALI. I'm sure Nix, Mister Dean and others can contact him and maybe he can post something here regarding any ALI offerings that may be fairly affordable - perhaps not quite as cheap as P1.7M but perhaps not that much more.

[NoisyCricket]

Originally posted by batang uliran:
For those of you PEx oldtimers, Aragorn, one of our former mods, is working in marketing at ALI. I'm sure Nix, Mister Dean and others can contact him and maybe he can post something here regarding any ALI offerings that may be fairly affordable - perhaps not quite as cheap as P1.7M but perhaps not that much more.

Dude, I really need Aragon (DZ's) help!

[aticus]

damn the cricket! :) he never fails to remind me he has more money than I do!

*sigh*

any decent place to rent for a struggling entrepreneur?

[NoisyCricket]

Originally posted by aticus:
damn the cricket! :) he never fails to remind me he has more money than I do!

*sigh*

any decent place to rent for a struggling entrepreneur?

all things in due time.. patience is a virtue.. at least you're earning your own keep! :D SO far, I'm just inheriting.. not as fulfilling I have to say.. I didn't do a thing to deserve any of that. It's my gramps who worked his butt off.. but one day...

[Irradiate]

hmmmm, is the place you're referring to California Gardens? be very careful with them. according to my sis, who invested in one, the payment schemes can get really tricky. they would sometimes claim that it's only 1.7M but as you're paying for it in installment a lot of add-ons come up. although the location is pretty good, i would advice not to invest for now. just wait for 3 more years when real estate is at its peak again. that's the only time you must believe that they can finish (as planned) a project.

[KuyaDanny]

Just thought I'd update people on this project. I've noticed that construction activity commenced about three weeks ago and has been picking up.

This morning I received this text message:

GUD AM!IM DOING A TXTMARKETING,R U FAMILIAR W/CALIFORNIA GARDEN SQ. ALONG LIBERTAD ST. MANDALUYONG CITY? WE R OFRING A NO D/P SCHEM ONLY 25K 2 RES. 12 YRS 2 PAY.

In case anyone is interested PM me and I will disclose the sender's cell number.

Note: I am not associated with this project in any way.

[misbee]

noisy cricket,
i commend you for looking ahead into your future. real estate is a good investment. you live on a place you build equity on. i, myself started young. i bought my condo at the age of 24 (with the help of my mom as the cosignor but i pay the mortgage) after working for 3years. i made some sacrifices - i tried to spend my money wisely. i limited my spending and saved. also, i was lucky enough to make a little money on stocks back when they were still doing well.

i bought the condo for $172k and now its appraised value is in the mid-200s. in just 2 years, i built some equity. ofcourse, the condo is not mine yet. 28 years to pay pa. sakit isipin pero at least, i don't spend my money on rent anymore and tax deductible pa ang interest. to add, make sure when you purchase a home consider the location kasi it makes a big difference on how well your property value appreciates.

i don't know sa Pinas do you get tax shelter ba when you purchase a home?

[aticus]

Originally posted by misbee


i don't know sa Pinas do you get tax shelter ba when you purchase a home?

Unfortunately, nope. :) Which makes it doubly important to be careful when purchasing real estate.

[the_archer]

I got a unit from Calif Garden Square in December last year. Unfortunately, was not a PEXer yet at that time so I did not get the benefit of everyone's advice here. So I'm praying real hard that my investment will pay off. FYI, there were no add-on payments to the contract I got: P1.7MM, 30% down, and the rest of the 70% payable at 0% interest over the next 36 months.

[KuyaDanny]

Originally posted by KuyaDanny
In case anyone is interested PM me and I will disclose the sender's cell number.


Oh, what the heck? I want to delete this guy's message from my phone so I'll post his number here for all to know:

+639196045181

I don't know his/her name. Sorry.

[tr|n|ty]

haha I WISH i could own my own apartment in 4 years.
New York Apartments are well known to be overpriced and people literally read the obituary section of the Times to find out who died and they would stake out the newly vacant apartment.
can somebody please donate to "grass' own manhattan apartment by 27" fund?

[aticus]

Originally posted by tr|n|ty
haha I WISH i could own my own apartment in 4 years.
New York Apartments are well known to be overpriced and people literally read the obituary section of the Times to find out who died and they would stake out the newly vacant apartment.
can somebody please donate to "grass' own manhattan apartment by 27" fund?

:lol:

You don't need it! ;) Leave some for us letter mortals... :D

[tr|n|ty]

i don't need it?!?!? i so need it, trust me ;)

[vandolph]

Originally posted by KuyaDanny
Just thought I'd update people on this project. I've noticed that construction activity commenced about three weeks ago and has been picking up.

This morning I received this text message:

GUD AM!IM DOING A TXTMARKETING,R U FAMILIAR W/CALIFORNIA GARDEN SQ. ALONG LIBERTAD ST. MANDALUYONG CITY? WE R OFRING A NO D/P SCHEM ONLY 25K 2 RES. 12 YRS 2 PAY.

In case anyone is interested PM me and I will disclose the sender's cell number.

Note: I am not associated with this project in any way.

I am being offered a one-bedroom unit at California Garden which will be completed around 2006. The selling price is P1.3M. I have no idea on the quality of the structures that Empire East builds, not like Ayala Land which really delivers classy and quality condos and delivers ahead of target completion date. Can anyone give me a feedback on Empire East. I still have to hear something positive about Empire East.