How much should FREE ANIME cost?

[Hentai_Yin_Moko]

A lot of people/sellers have been saying that anime should be free and that its for the fans and by the fans blah blah blah...

The question is...
...is there really such a thing as free anime? If so how much should free anime cost?

[Jenskot]

No such thing as free anime . You want it? You get buy it legally. Those involved in anime production should reap the benefits of their labor and talent.

A saying by the webmaster/owner of the website I frequent (and which I believe in): "Anime is not a right. Anime is a hobby, not a religion. Just because you can't afford it, doesn't mean you are owed it."

[Nanashi]

*bump*

[Nanashi]

Pero yun mga finan-sub na anime ay di dapat ibenta. IT should be free.. for fan from fan talaga kaya nga tinawag na fansub at may agreement ang anime makers sa mga fans that they shoul gave their fansub anime free... a good advertisment to buy the orig ones (how very nice of japanese anime makers). If you want to have an anime buy the orig japanese non-sub title.

So how much should anime free cost? priceless yet no money should be involved but your ever devotion as a fan *okay*

Kaya kayo ... OPPPs... baka may magalit
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[Enishi]

come on you guys, don't be like that. Do you guys know why fansubbed are being bought more than original. It's not just because of the big price difference, it's also because of the fact that fansubbers stay true to the essence of the story. Let's face it most officially subbed/dubbed anime sucks. Take for example the ones who subbed/dubbed Rurouni Kenshin, they changed the title to samurai x which is already shredding some of RK's story. Kenshin is not a samurai (distinguished people in Japan at the height of the Bakumatsu), he's a rurouni (masterless swordman, wondering). Plus, they also changed some important lines in the episodes to some cheesy nonsensical one liner. Like Kenshin and Kaoru exchanging "I love you's, they never said such things in the series.

ang dating nito sa fans ay imbes na bumili ng official ay bibili na lang ng by fans. Para di sila maguluhan. Unless, official translations improve their ways, I doubt this system will change anytime soon.

[Jenskot]

Nanashi:

I agree that fansubs/digisubs should be distributed freely in the spirit of the 90's fansubbers. Unfortunately, this is not the case and we have people buying fansubs/digisubs left and right.

I am also of the thought that if one enjoys an anime series and/or completes the entire series on fansub/digisub, then one should buy the legit R1/R2/R3 version in order to support the industry.

Enishi:

I pose the same question I asked Guile in another thread when he brought up the issue of Americans mishandling anime: What was the last R1 DVD you bought? That may have been true in the past but times have changed in the past year or two. (I'm pasting my observations of American anime distributors here. It seems to be a more apt to the topic than the other thread.).



ADV: they're releasing their catalogue titles in cheaper box sets and multipaks. They're currently among the fan favorites because of their treatment of titles and new acquisitions. Princess Nine is one of the best sellers right now, and Excel Saga is touted to be on of the best anime releases ever (because of how ADV applied "vid-notes" and other add-ons to the disc).

Bandai: a large negative would be their release of Love Hina (there are a couple of articles about this). But their positives include the Escaflowne releases, the upcoming Escaflowne movie (excelent previews, btw), and Cowboy Bebop (which had a English dub equal to that of the Japanese, and of course, the Perfect Sessions).

AnimEigo: again, the negative would be problems with KOR. But a large positive is the newly remastered and enhanced release of Macross.

Manga: uhh, unfortunately, this is one of the American companies w/c you describe. However, the upcoming release of the Eva movies gives "some" hope (crosses fingers).

Pioneer: the biggest negative for this company is that they're still sticking to the older 4/3 release format. But fans regard their releases among the best with regards to sub and video quality. And their release of AMG: The Movie is topnotch

CPM: have you ever seen their release of Revolutionary Girl Utena: The Movie? The R1 version is regarded to be superior to that of the R2 version, with its excellent video (1:85:1 Anamorphic), remarkable sub, and a great slew of extras, including a running commentary track by Ikuhara himself (w/c the R2 dvd doesn't have).

Further proof that American releases are now of excellent quality? The significant number of Japanese are actually reverse-importing R1 releases instead of buying the R2 releases.


Yes, I agree that the Kenshin dub was really, really awful. Thing is, most American fans also agree. And fortunately, this kind of mishandling is rapidly becoming the exception rather than the norm.

[Jenskot]

Oh, yeah. Forgot to ask for a clarification. And this is also for those who say that they're getting fansubs/digisubs because the translation is faithful to the original.

Seriously, how do you know that the translation of fansubs/digisubs is better than that of official releases? (You understand Japanese? Scripts? Other reasons?)

[badoochi]

If you don't like the US dub, watch it with subtitles. ;)

If only there's legit anime dvds being sold here. The only thing that I saw here was the Metropolis DVD.

[takahashi69]

Jenskot: If you have been watching subtitled anime for a long time, you will notice that you can in some times, you can actually understand what they are saying & by looking at the text below, it is the same as what they say... or maybe it is just me?

There is also the satisfaction that you are watching an anime subtitled by people who love their hobby rather than watching a subtitled anime done by a corporation that just do it because it is their job!

And finally, the crazy fonts they use in each & every episode. It is very enjoyabble watching the fansubber's skills get better & better in doing that stuff. You can really see their skills shine in any anime's opening song, that is the most crucial part in any anime. If it was just a subtitling company they would just use those bland, thin, yellow, arial fonts!

[VioletJersey]

i had my first hands-on experience of anime DVD shopping when i went to the US... and i have to say... the place is CRAWLING with titles from literally every single anime studio in the US! i felt like i died and went to anime heaven!!! :inluv:

... but like Enishi stated, there is always the fear of buying them... especially after what they did to Card Captor Sakura and YuYu Hakusho (i tell you, it's on Adult Swim right now... and the dubbing sucks!!! Kuwabarra sounds like a raving 40 yr old madman... and Yusuke sounds like a this terrible angsty American heartrob... it's completely PATHETIC!!!)... i saw DVD copies of Weiss Kreuz... and i was like in a verge of buy-it-or-not coz of the rumored "changes" they did in the storyline (Aya becomes Ran's girlfriend instead of sister... and they made Omi a girl!!! okay, his clothes are hideous... but to make him a girl is downright ridicule to the genre itself!) :mad:

... and one more thing... AMERICANS HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT THEIR ANIMES!!! i mean they have to ask which ones to buy coz they have no knowledge about them (except for the ones they see in Toonami and Adult Swim)... besides, even hard-core anime fans in the US prefer fansubs over the original ones... knowing this, it's kinda frustrating to think that we have a far bigger anime market than the US... hell, anime fandom in the Phils started way back in the 70s... i think it's high time that the consumer market would realize that... in order words... MAKE ANIME DVDs MORE LEGAL AND AVAILABLE HERE IN THE COUNTRY!!!

... my thoughts on this... if you can get a really accurate fansub... DON'T HESITATE TO BUY IT!!! but if you prefer to buy R1 DVDs... might i suggest you ask a friend or anybody who've seen it and ask if they liked it... it's far better than making a huge mistake over it!!!

DVDs worth checking out!

- EVA Perfect Collection (just had to promote this baby of mine! hehehe...)
- Perfect Blue (the only good dubbed anime from Manga... hate what they did for Ninja Scroll!!!)
- El Hazard OAVs (though it can be mushy at times... but i still love it... )
- Vampire Hunter D and VHD: Bloodlust (excellent titles... great dubbing!)

[Enishi]

Originally posted by VioletJersey

- Vampire Hunter D and VHD: Bloodlust (excellent titles... great dubbing!)

um.... Vampire Hunter Bloodlust has no Japanese counterpart, it's really in english.:smokin:

[Hentai_Yin_Moko]

Originally posted by Nanashi
Pero yun mga finan-sub na anime ay di dapat ibenta. IT should be free.. for fan from fan talaga kaya nga tinawag na fansub at may agreement ang anime makers sa mga fans that they shoul gave their fansub anime free... a good advertisment to buy the orig ones (how very nice of japanese anime makers). If you want to have an anime buy the orig japanese non-sub title.

So how much should anime free cost? priceless yet no money should be involved but your ever devotion as a fan *okay*


Can you show me the URL or a link on where i could view the said "agreement ang anime makers sa mga fans that they shoul gave their fansub anime free". ":)_

[Nanashi]

If you trying to pin me HMK don't try...

Okay I'll gladly answer your assumed to be innocent Q.
You know the law governing about the fanfics and fanarts?

It's the same rule applied to fansub anime... They are (the fansubbers) allowed to sub the animes and give them away for free... The main thing here is that fansubber should make profit on the fansub anime... so they give it away to co-fans or interested ones and they should always cite the company owner of the said anime (disclaimers)... SO notice in anime fansubs... There are message like this "Not for sale" meaning its free and should enjoy as free.. So fansubbers don't earn in fansubbing anime.. its the devotion as a fan of the said anime counts . So to sum it up.. It's understable fact or mutually agreed between the owner and fan.

Plus the owner allowed it to fansub so they can track down info to the consumers what type of anime they like... YOU know that info is very precious in a company (they spend a lot for info gathering).

KAya ahemmmm... alam mo na yun... I remembered you said once in this forum na your doing this selling as a fan to co-fans? Hmmm... too bad di bumabagay and free anime sa yo (di masisi dahil di naman tayo ganun kayaman no?)

So here is my Q to you? Are you a fan or businessman? or both? :glee:

Peace just stating the facts
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[Nanashi]

Bump!

[Hentai_Yin_Moko]

Originally posted by Nanashi
If you trying to pin me HMK don't try...


Pinning you? For what? Am just asking a question. ":)_

Originally posted by Nanashi
Okay I'll gladly answer your assumed to be innocent Q.
You know the law governing about the fanfics and fanarts?


Now what does that supposed to mean?
Anyway, i dont know the law governing fanfics and fanarts as well.

Originally posted by Nanashi
It's the same rule applied to fansub anime... They are (the fansubbers) allowed to sub the animes and give them away for free... The main thing here is that fansubber should make profit on the fansub anime... so they give it away to co-fans or interested ones and they should always cite the company owner of the said anime (disclaimers)... SO notice in anime fansubs... There are message like this "Not for sale" meaning its free and should enjoy as free.. So fansubbers don't earn in fansubbing anime.. its the devotion as a fan of the said anime counts . So to sum it up.. It's understable fact or mutually agreed between the owner and fan.

Plus the owner allowed it to fansub so they can track down info to the consumers what type of anime they like... YOU know that info is very precious in a company (they spend a lot for info gathering).

Like what ive asked before eh are there any specific websites or books or magazines that these big companies are really allowing fansubs to be distributed freely? What im really looking for are OFFICIAL announcements from these big companies.

Originally posted by Nanashi
KAya ahemmmm... alam mo na yun... I remembered you said once in this forum na your doing this selling as a fan to co-fans? Hmmm... too bad di bumabagay and free anime sa yo (di masisi dahil di naman tayo ganun kayaman no?)


Hmn.. I cant really remember saying that doing this selling as a fan to co-fans or maybe baka nagiging ulyanin na ako? Ahieheihie.. ":)_ what i remember saying is that there are peple that are in it for the business and people who are in it for the hobby and dedication. ":)_

And yes, FREE ANIME is not my kind of thing. ":)_

Originally posted by Nanashi
So here is my Q to you? Are you a fan or businessman? or both? :glee:


Definitely i am both! ":)_

and by the way, its HYM. ":)_

[VioletJersey]

here's my two cents on it...

as an anime fan... and dear supporters on fan-subbed anime... i have no problems buying fan-subbed animes... mainly because i trust them more than the widely-distributed-but-very-much-murdered US releases... and sad to say... some of us fans don't have the cable or DSL connections to download fansubs... nor the highly-coveted memberships that fansub sites has to offer... thus making us decide to buy them from people who share the same desires on the genre than we do... :D

... reality check my friend... THERE IS NOTHING FREE IN THIS WORLD... it's a hard fact that i think most of us have already accepted... anime fans in genreal... with regards to the law on fanfiction and fanart... i happen to be an fanfic writer myself... and it's true i don't make a profit on it... mainly because it's purely based on my imagination... and it's not worth selling anyway since the original is still far better than all the fanfics combined! my point... i'm willing to shell out tons of money just so i can get the best anime out there...

... and believe me, don't tell me you haven't bought a single fan-subbed anime in your entire life... if so, you're lucky that you can afford such privileges only a few fans like us have... :)

... oh well, that's just my opinion on the matter... no hard feelings okay??? :wave:

[JC00]

FANSUBS = "legal" to get for free IF it is not available commercially in your particular country.


Technically BAWAL ang fansubs. BAWAL ang pirated anime dvds, vcds, etc. na nag-kalat.

PAGNANAKAW to.

[Hentai_Yin_Moko]

Originally posted by Hentai_Yin_Moko
And yes, FREE ANIME is not my kind of thing. ":)_


Oooppsss... Baka ma mis-understand ako.
Im saying that as an anime seller (im in it for the bussiness. Sino ba ang nagtitinda dito ng anime that is not in it for the business?). And not as an anime buyer. ":)_
I dont believe that anime videos would be free... ...well, not yet. ":)_

[AmplexusAngelus]

Licensed Animes are not allowed to be distributed. Thats why there are IRC channels that doesn't allow fserves to serve those animes. But It can't be stop.

For Free Anime. I think the price should be the total amount of money you spent to create the product. CDR, Stickers, Case, Internet Connection, Electricity and Time for queueing or finding the anime title. 40-60Php are already good bargains. I wouldn't mind paying that amount of money to the sellers.

[thehitman]

AFAIK, the original owners of anime titles don't mind if somebody fansubs their titles. Therefore, acquiring a fansubbed anime isn't illegal, although this may be debatable. A fansubbed anime title is only illegal if the title is already licensed in one's country. So, in our setting, the only titles licensed for redistribution are the likes of Voltes V, Daimos, Bubblegum Crisis, Trigun, To Heart, Metropolis, Magic Knight Rayearth, Digimon, etc. Otherwise, we can just acquire fansubbed anime without fear of breaking any laws. A title is considered pirated if it was copied from a licensed copy. Therefore, if your anime has the name of a licensing company like Pioneer (Trigun), Viz (Ranma 1/2), then your copy is pirated. I will admit that I have purchased pirated titles like my Trigun and Ranma collection. And I promised myself that I will correct the error by buying the originals. All my other titles are fansubbed, so I should have no problem with them.

:cool:

[badoochi]

There's a legit Trigun VHS/DVD available here?

[thehitman]

Originally posted by badoochi
There's a legit Trigun VHS/DVD available here?

I think a local company got distribution rights to it, since I see Trigun VCDs in malls. As for VHS and DVDs, I have yet to see them. My own VHS copy of Trigun was from a Pioneer-distributed set.

:cool:

[tiffac]

Anime fansubs are for free if you have the resources to get it for free, meaning you get only the data without the hardware ala CD ala you download it on PC by yourself like most distributions are done freely.

Now why does fansub Anime cost. We are paying for the time, resources and CD of the seller, but mostly we pay only for the CD's the capital is so small you can't even start a business with it. Unless of course you have other $$$ generators besides Anime.

Just make sure the Anime doesn't cost beyond 100 per CD coz thats way too much. 100 below is just fine.

[Sol_Badguy]

fansub videos itself imo are free, if you did the subbing then you go charge for it.

then why are they selling fansubs? - well aside from ripping other people - bad jk ;p heh... you pay for (in my case) the cd, cost for electricity, internet download time and even shipping...

but for selling it at such high price, that isnt good :)

ps: i sell mine for 60.00 per cd only hehehe... less than dollar yan!

[necr0]

free kse hindi naniningil yng mga fansubbers...
In my perfect world, magbibigay ka ng cd, tapos babayaran mo lang shipping at konting halaga para sa kuryente at dahil na din nag-depreciate yung value nung hardware na pinang-kopya. :lol:

[AmplexusAngelus]

Mahal na nga yung 100 For me... Yung Price ni Sol_Badguy ang tama. He'll be earning 10-15 para sa effort nya. good deal na yun. :)

And bakit meron nagbebenta per episode? hindi ba dapat per cd. if gusto nila gawin yun, then make it 1 cd per episode. :P

[Nanashi]

Regarding my final Remarks in this thread (hopefully)

... reality check my friend... THERE IS NOTHING FREE IN THIS WORLD...

In a mind of perspective average money concious person Yes! I agree with you but there are things still free... Comon sentido check lang po. PEACE!

I also a writer of fanfic.. i do this for fun and as my devotion to the anime... I don't sell it... I mean We don't sell it because we believe that real intention of bringing anime in the first place is tio make money but as an art, literary art and Free Expression
of ones imagination.....

That's why classic anime are not yet fully commercialize and much appreciated than nows.. As what i observe.

If you are selling it.. then fine. If your giving it away freely then much better (tell me if you are really giving away :D )

Hmn.. I cant really remember saying that doing this selling as a fan to co-fans or maybe baka nagiging ulyanin na ako? Ahieheihie.. "_ what i remember saying is that there are peple that are in it for the business and people who are in it for the hobby and dedication. "_

I stand corrected HYM pala

And yes you did say that thing to me in one of your emails when we first transact business which broke out kasi di tayo magtama sa CD quality.

Official announcement??... As I said before this is are mutually agreed upon.. As long you don't earn from it as a fan then its okay to the company.... This is what commonly known as Business/intellectual property etiquette (sori kung mali yun spelling ng etiket :glee: )
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http://boomspeed.com/nanashi/44.jpg

[E£ë¢t®øñí¢ DEâd]

when it comes to downloading manga scans...dapat talaga free yun.



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"人の本当の性質は血の戦いでしか見つけられることができない..."

[Hentai_Yin_Moko]

Originally posted by JC00
FANSUBS = "legal" to get for free IF it is not available commercially in your particular country.
Originally posted by thehitman
AFAIK, the original owners of anime titles don't mind if somebody fansubs their titles. Therefore, acquiring a fansubbed anime isn't illegal, although this may be debatable. A fansubbed anime title is only illegal if the title is already licensed in one's country. So, in our setting, the only titles licensed for redistribution are the likes of Voltes V, Daimos, Bubblegum Crisis, Trigun, To Heart, Metropolis, Magic Knight Rayearth, Digimon, etc. Otherwise, we can just acquire fansubbed anime without fear of breaking any laws. A title is considered pirated if it was copied from a licensed copy. Therefore, if your anime has the name of a licensing company like Pioneer (Trigun), Viz (Ranma 1/2), then your copy is pirated. I will admit that I have purchased pirated titles like my Trigun and Ranma collection. And I promised myself that I will correct the error by buying the originals. All my other titles are fansubbed, so I should have no problem with them.
Ive visited a lot of sites and ganyan nga ang sabi nila doon about funsubbing. Im having trouble looking for legit explainations about this on the net. Can anyone here point me to a site/magazine/book where companies agreed with fansubbers to use their material and spread it for free?

Also would that agreement hold ground here in the philippines? Like kapag na-raid ang store mo na nagtitinda ng LEGIT FANSUBs kahit wala kang licensed anime na tinitinda eh pwede kayang sabihin yun? ":(_
Originally posted by JC00
Technically BAWAL ang fansubs. BAWAL ang pirated anime dvds, vcds, etc. na nag-kalat.

PAGNANAKAW to.
I agree. ":)_ Kaya nga lang eh almost everyone turns a blind eye with regards to piracy (tama ba ang pagkakasabi ko?). Lalu na sa anime since it is really hard to get here in the philippines and in other parts of the world.

Originally posted by necr0
free kse hindi naniningil yng mga fansubbers...
In my perfect world, magbibigay ka ng cd, tapos babayaran mo lang shipping at konting halaga para sa kuryente at dahil na din nag-depreciate yung value nung hardware na pinang-kopya.
Originally posted by Sol_Badguy
fansub videos itself imo are free, if you did the subbing then you go charge for it.

then why are they selling fansubs? - well aside from ripping other people - bad jk ;p heh... you pay for (in my case) the cd, cost for electricity, internet download time and even shipping...

but for selling it at such high price, that isnt good

ps: i sell mine for 60.00 per cd only hehehe... less than dollar yan!
I also believe that ganito talaga dapat ang singilan. Lalu na kapag you are really not in it for the bussiness. Pero we really cant blame the others. Negosyo yan eh. ":)_

[Jenskot]

Japanese companies have never given their explicit approval to fansub their works. There is a fansubber site which explains the cultural nuances of this (I'll try to post a link when I find it again) but as long as they "turn a blind eye" towards fansubs then they'll take no legal action. (How much longer will Japanese companies do this is now in question, as titles are getting licensed before the tv runs gets finished and even during production.)

There is no grey area of legality here. There is no such thing as LEGIT fansubs. Fansubs are ILLEGAL, even if it is not available commercially in a region. If you get the attention of the producers and licensors, they can and will take legal action against you.

One more thing. To many believers of the fansub "code", selling fansubs for profit is reprehesible

[bluemist]

But think about it. Part of the reason why anime titles are getting licensed faster than ever before is because there are fansubbers who show the world, and the licensing companies, that this particular anime is good, this one is bad, etc. This way, licensing companies would know better what to license.

I'd rather think of fansubbing as a kind of doujinshi in manga (or maybe more accurately, manga translations). What I mean is, I don't know exactly why, but Japanese companies indeed ignore that their copyright property is being used elsewhere. One reason I have thought of was they actually benefit from it.

Having your anime being fansubbed or being drawn in doujinshi (even H) or being written in fan fiction is proof that your anime is popular, and that there is someone out there kind enough to spread the its popularity, even if in an alternate (doujinshi, fan fiction) or revised (fansub) form.

The problem is that some people abuse that power so that they can profit from it.

[Jenskot]

Originally posted by bluemist
But think about it. Part of the reason why anime titles are getting licensed faster than ever before is because there are fansubbers who show the world, and the licensing companies, that this particular anime is good, this one is bad, etc. This way, licensing companies would know better what to license.

I'd rather think of fansubbing as a kind of doujinshi in manga (or maybe more accurately, manga translations). What I mean is, I don't know exactly why, but Japanese companies indeed ignore that their copyright property is being used elsewhere. One reason I have thought of was they actually benefit from it.

Having your anime being fansubbed or being drawn in doujinshi (even H) or being written in fan fiction is proof that your anime is popular, and that there is someone out there kind enough to spread the its popularity, even if in an alternate (doujinshi, fan fiction) or revised (fansub) form.


True. I also believe that this is the reason that Jap companies currently turn a blind eye towards fansubs.

However, we should be reminded of the unofficial principles that fansubs (and fansubbers) work on:
1) Fansub only unlicensed titles
2) Stop fansubs once titles are licensed
3) Never sell fansubs for a profit
4) Support the industry by buying the originals when they become available

And herein lies the problem with fansubs and the people who procure fansubs, and why companies are starting to crack down on them.

First Case in point: Hellsing. This title was licensed by Pioneer long before the first episode was released. Yet fansubs continued to be produced.

Second Case in point: Chobits and Rahxephon. These titles (among others) have not yet finished airing, but have been licensed. Yet I can guarantee that fansubs of these will still be released.

Now, these two cases alone shouldn't make fansubs much of an issue to companies. What MAKES it an issue, imho, is that a significant number of so-called "fans" do not buy the originals once they become available, and instead rely on their fansubs alone.

I'm going to skew a bit and use something you stated as an example. A lot of people have downloaded the Chobits manga translations. Who among these have bought the original manga or the licensed TokyoPop version?

So going back to the original question of this post: How much should "free anime" cost? Depends, as long as there is NO PROFIT in the transaction, and as long the industry is supported (one way or another).

[teppei]

fansubs should and would remain free. it shouldn't be taken advantage by other ppl coz these fansubbers are doing it for FREE. i used to be involved with them not too long ago and i know how much work has been given to just to release a single episode of a fansubbed anime [translation, editing, timing, quality check, encoding]. as what most fansub groups would say, if their fansubbed animes were to be distributed, it has to be at the cost of the cdr and/or shipping/handling. nothing more than that. so if u bought one for more than 40 php, u got ripped.

fansub groups' etiquette is to stop fansubbing them after the anime gets liscensed. coz the goal of fansub groups is for that anime to be released outside japan. however, some fansub groups and some fans do think that fansubbing liscensed animes are a must. why? coz when the anime gets released in US have a very much inflated price, and u wouldn't take a chance on an anime that u don't know [or haven't seen] and spend hundreds of dollars for it---and in the end, u'll end up feeling that u got ripped off coz u realized that u didn't liked the anime series. fans based their decision on whether to buy the US DVD release through the fansubs. if the fansub hasn't been completely released, ppl tend to be reluctant on wasting their hard earned money on those expensive anime titles. let's face it. look at those HKdvd's price and US dvd price. the difference is at least three times as much. and us companies' reasoning behind this is the packaging, dubbing and translating costs, which is, imo, BS. IMO their prices should be no more than double of what's being sold on HKDVD, since their dubs are crap, or they should just sell an optional dvd that doesn't have english dubs to make it cheaper.


Jenskot: Hellsing was indeed rumoured to be already liscensed long before the first fansub episode was released, but fansubs won't stop doing it until they see an official announcement [which was released around the time ep 6 or 7 was released]

[Jenskot]

I won't argue with the merits of watching a series first before buying it, since I also agree with you on that point. It is when one does not buy an original copy of the series he/she likes that I have a problem with. ;)

American anime dvd prices are inflated? :mconfused: Sure, when you compare them to HK DVD releases. I must point out, however, that almost all, if not all, HK DVDs are bootlegs without licenses. A fairer comparison would be to the original R2 releases. Using this comparison, R1 DVDs are much cheaper than the R2 dvds. AFAIK, R1 anime DVDs are among the cheaper legal DVDs in the world, beaten only by the legal R3 releases.

Uhmm... dubs are what make R1 DVDs CHEAPER, not more expensive, because a larger portion of the market are dub watchers instead of sub watchers. Without dubs, these DVDs would have be sold at a higher price since fewer people would be buying them.

No more than double the price, eh? Alright. Popular (http://store.yahoo.com/popular-sg/) is currently selling the licensed Odex R3 version of Vandread for around 1,800 PHP, which is about double the price of the illegal HK bootlegs. Even better, their Hand Maid May is selling for about 1,350 PHP. All licensed and legal. Interested in buying? :hmm:

[Bejita]

Fansub is free, well it is free if you have a fast connection and living in the US. I'm selling my fansub vcds very cheap those profits that I gain here is not enough to pay electricity (My PC is always on 24/7), internet connection and other bills. My fansub vcds are accesible to people without internet besides its hard to find originals here.

Fansub has better translation. I bought Lain. Rayearth and Lodoss War DVDs at amazon.com, well the dubbing is good except for rayearth.

WE ARE IN THE PHILIPPINES, AND NOT USA...there's no such thing as FREE in our economic situation..

Most of all, I provide some raw anime to them and develop DivX tech, so only GOD can stop me :p

[VioletJersey]

i would have to agree with Bejita... fansubs are definitely the best translations out there! one of the reasons for this is because they've always remain true to the essence of every single Japanese dialogue being uttered... this sort of respect, not only to the genre but the language in itself... is a far better presentation!

... let's face it, the US anime market wants drama... lots of it! hell, Rurouni Kenshin was like totally bombarded by mushiness and cuteness... one example... Kenshin never said "I LOVE YOU!" to Kaoru on the sea pirate episode... they just decided to do that just to add romantic flare to the scene... to me, that's a major insult to the show and the language as well! and pls don't get me started as to what they did to Card Captor Sakura... they literally "destroyed" the series, changing everything from names (Tomoyo - Madison, Yukito - Julian, Toya - Tory), the music (tama bang gawing Pokemon theme ang OP! downright pathetic!)... even the sequencing of episodes! now, with that sort of "reputation", how can u convince anime fans to buy US DVDs... hell, i'll take my chances with fansubs any day!

[teppei]

Originally posted by Jenskot
I won't argue with the merits of watching a series first before buying it, since I also agree with you on that point. It is when one does not buy an original copy of the series he/she likes that I have a problem with. ;)

American anime dvd prices are inflated? :mconfused: Sure, when you compare them to HK DVD releases. I must point out, however, that almost all, if not all, HK DVDs are bootlegs without licenses. A fairer comparison would be to the original R2 releases. Using this comparison, R1 DVDs are much cheaper than the R2 dvds. AFAIK, R1 anime DVDs are among the cheaper legal DVDs in the world, beaten only by the legal R3 releases.

Uhmm... dubs are what make R1 DVDs CHEAPER, not more expensive, because a larger portion of the market are dub watchers instead of sub watchers. Without dubs, these DVDs would have be sold at a higher price since fewer people would be buying them.

No more than double the price, eh? Alright. Popular (http://store.yahoo.com/popular-sg/) is currently selling the licensed Odex R3 version of Vandread for around 1,800 PHP, which is about double the price of the illegal HK bootlegs. Even better, their Hand Maid May is selling for about 1,350 PHP. All licensed and legal. Interested in buying? :hmm:

hmm... dunno about that... but afair, in every animes stores/anime conventions that i go to, almost all of the ppl are only interested about the jap-dub/e-sub of the animes. so does the thousands[if not millions] of ppl[worldwide] downloading animes through IRC and newsgroups. and iirc, these us companies has to spend some money for the things needed for english dub production [including the pay for the script readers]. and i do know that HKDVDs are unliscensed. hence, that's why they call it bootlegs ^^. btw, nice site, but i've already asked my friend about borrowing his vandread so i could rip it myself.... gotta make it like a dvd [ogm media 2-audio streams plus optional subtitles] ;)

[Jenskot]

Originally posted by VioletJersey
i would have to agree with Bejita... fansubs are definitely the best translations out there! one of the reasons for this is because they've always remain true to the essence of every single Japanese dialogue being uttered... this sort of respect, not only to the genre but the language in itself... is a far better presentation!

... let's face it, the US anime market wants drama... lots of it! hell, Rurouni Kenshin was like totally bombarded by mushiness and cuteness... one example... Kenshin never said "I LOVE YOU!" to Kaoru on the sea pirate episode... they just decided to do that just to add romantic flare to the scene... to me, that's a major insult to the show and the language as well! and pls don't get me started as to what they did to Card Captor Sakura... they literally "destroyed" the series, changing everything from names (Tomoyo - Madison, Yukito - Julian, Toya - Tory), the music (tama bang gawing Pokemon theme ang OP! downright pathetic!)... even the sequencing of episodes! now, with that sort of "reputation", how can u convince anime fans to buy US DVDs... hell, i'll take my chances with fansubs any day!

:lol:

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it never ceases to amuse me that people would use the "fansubs have better tranlation" (or something to that effect) argument, THEN use the English dub as a comparison.

Why? Because this is like comparing apples and oranges. You are comparing a dub with a sub, which are two different things. If you want to bring up the English dub then you should compare it with the Japanese dub and NOT the sub. Now, since we are talking about fansubs, the fairer comparison for discussion would be to the licensed R1 SUBS - not the dubs.


Case in point: the Nelvana Cardcraptors is CR@P. I agree with with you 500%. The dub is so fugly and deserves to be thrown into the deepest level of hell. :evil:

However, you cannot compare Cardcraptors with the fansub CCS because these are two different things. A comparison of the fansub CCS with the Pioneer CCS is more apt. And in this case, the R1 sub IS good and holds up to the fansub.


Teppei, do you have a copy of the R1 DVD Kenshin released by MediaBlasters? Could you do a similar comparison with the RK fansub vs. the R1 sub? And can anyone who uses the "better translation" argument compare other fansubs vs. R1 subs so that we properly can point out what's good and what's not?

[teppei]

Originally posted by Jenskot

<snip>


Teppei, do you have a copy of the R1 DVD Kenshin released by MediaBlasters? Could you do a similar comparison with the RK fansub vs. the R1 sub? And can anyone who uses the "better translation" argument compare other fansubs vs. R1 subs so that we properly can point out what's good and what's not?

the RK fansub that i've seen before was the original one i think... coz the quality is vhs-rip [somewhat crappy]. the translation was great on the fansub too. my group actually released this R1 RK rips in our community, and there are few die hard RK fans who complained about the translations in the R1 is a little bit off, and it's harder to understand ryt away compared to the original fansub. even tho i barely understand nihonggo, i could tell that they tried to make the R1's translation true to it's script the best way possible. i've seen a few other anime DVDs who's even off even to those small words.

imo, the argument fansubs vs R1 [on which's better] is a little bit unfair. coz the quality of the translations could be different with various translators. in the fansub scene, it's a matter of preference... on who'se translation/release would u trust most. i know quite a few translators in the fansub scene, and all of them are really good in english, as well as with their japanese [even the kanji stuff]. while some group/s has/have a bad translator--bad in a way that the translator/s is/are either not proficient in english or japanese. so it affects the quality of the translation.